Rewind: Pakistan's history in Australia

Junaids

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Almost exactly two years ago I wrote a detailed post summarising Pakistan's Test history in Australia.

I was fortunate enough to win the POTW, but that means that I can't just reopen the thread under its original title.

Nevertheless, with Pakistan about to undertake their first Test tour of Australia in 7 years it might be interesting for others to review exactly how Pakistan has fared Down Under on previous tours.

So here is the post once more, with a few new reflections.
...............................................................................

Don’t let anyone tell you that Pakistan can never win a series in Australia. England has. New Zealand has. It can be done – it just needs sound preparation.

Pakistan has done okay there in the modern era at times.

1981-82 – lost a 3 match series 2-1
They were beaten on the bouncy track at the WACA – where Pakistan should never play and on the second bounciest track at Brisbane. But they won at the MCG on its flatter wicket, and should always seek to play a Test there on Boxing Day.


1983-84 – lost a 5 Test series 2-0
This sounds worse than it actually was. Imran Khan was the only fast bowler and was unfit to bowl, and by the time he joined the tour - as a batsman only – for the Third Test they were already 1-0 down, but drew the next 2 Tests.

Lessons from this tour:
1) Specialist hook/pull/cut merchants like Qasim Omar are more use in Australia than the likes of classical batsmen like Zaheer Abbas and Javed Miandad and Mohsin Khan who can’t adapt to the back-foot game.
2) Without good fast bowlers you are dead meat in Australia.
3) Pakistan will always do best at Adelaide on its flatter pitch.

(On reflection two years later, did I just talk Sharjeel Khan into the team?)

1989-90 – lost a 3 match series 1-0
Pakistan lost the First Test because they were not fully acclimatised to the moving ball and threw it away in the First Innings. Ijaz Ahmed’s cutting and pulling nearly won the match and, like Azhar Mahmood in South Africa, showed the value of backfoot specialists.

Pakistan nearly won the Second Test at Adelaide, and probably would have if Mushtaq Ahmed had been the finished article as a leg-spinner.

As ever, Adelaide was a relatively easy venue for Pakistan.

1994-95 – lost a 3 match series 2-1
Yet again, they were undercooked in terms of preparation and collapsed at Brisbane in the First Test. They also made the mistake of picking Saqlain Mushtaq instead of Mushtaq Ahmed, showing profound ignorance for the history of legspin versus offspin in Australia

The second Test was much closer – Mushtaq Ahmed was recalled and took 18 wickets in 2 Tests (whereas Saqlain took 4 wickets in 2 tests, Wasim Akram took 14 in 3 and Waqar took 8 in 3).

Pakistan then won the Third Test in Sydney.

Lessons from this tour:
1) Taller fast bowlers do better in Australia than shorter ones like Waqar Younis.
2) Legspinners do better in Australia than offspinners.
3) The batters require at least 3 First Class matches in Australia to adapt to the different length and bounce.

(Shockingly, in 2016-17 the only warm-up game is a Day/Night one in the far north in monsoon season!)

1999-2000 – lost 3-0 in Australia
This was the least one-sided 3-0 hammering in history!

Pakistan threw away winning positions in both of the first two Tests. They were hampered by Mushtaq Ahmed not having played for months and by poor team selection – how on earth was Mohammed Wasim played as an opener instead of Aamir Sohail?

Lessons from this tour:
1) Hobart is, after Adelaide, the best venue for Pakistan in Australia.
2) Pick the best batsmen in Aussie conditions, regardless of how obnoxious they may be (see S Butt, below).
3) Without a legspinner in form it is much harder to survive in Australia.
4) Expect to get slaughtered if you are dumb enough to agree to play in Perth.

2004-05 – lost 3-0 in Australia
Demolished by a better team.

Lessons from this tour:
1) Avoid Perth – bowled out for 72 to compare with 1981-82’s 62 all out.
2) Salman Butt and Younis Khan are your best batsmen in Australia – they were the only two to pass 200 runs, and were far more suited to the conditions than Inzy and Youhana were.
3) Kaneria was your leading wicket-taker – a leggie again.

2009-10 – lost 3-0 in Australia
A suspicious series defeat, as the Sydney Test had to be seen to be believed, and Mazhar Majeed later confessed to the News of the World that he had fixed it.

Lessons from this tour:
1) You can’t afford to exclude your best batsmen in Australian conditions The omission of Younis Khan was a total disaster.
2) Salman Butt, unfortunately, was again your best batsman in Australia, he scored 280 runs at 46.66, the next highest scorer was Umar Akmal with 199 runs.
3) Unfortunately again, Mohammed Asif bowled far better than Mohammed Amir (13 wickets at 28.46 compared with 8 wickets at 40.37).

So there is a clear template for success in Australia.

How to win in Australia in 2016
1) Salman Butt and Umar Akmal need to be the first two batsmen on the teamsheet if you want to win. (I despise Salman Butt, but I know that the tour of Australia is when you are really going to need him).
2) Left-handers often do well in Australia.
I will happily take Sami Aslam instead of Salman Butt.
3) Given that Saeed Ajmal will be nearly 40, the only spin bowlers you should even take on the plane are legspinners. Yasir Shah because he is the best one you have, Usman Qadir because he has more experience in Australian conditions than any other Pakistani.
4) Your top-order will get out to the Kookaburra in the first 20 overs. You need the batsmen at 6,7,8 and 9 to score 80% of the runs, so plan accordingly.
No sign of any all-rounders at this stage......
5) Make sure that the fast bowlers you take on tour – and you will require 6 – are tall. Even Waqar Younis at 6 foot was mediocre in Australia – an Ehsan Adil will always be more useful than a Junaid Khan in Australia because he is 4 inches taller.
Only five in the squad so far......
6) Don’t agree to play in Perth. You arrive in December 2016 while South Africa plays 3 Tests v Australia. Arrive 4 weeks before the First Test and play against every state you can in a First Class match – at least 3, preferably 4. Your First Test should be the Boxing Day test at the MCG and the Second Test will be the New Year one at Sydney. Ensure that the Third Test is in Adelaide or Hobart, not Perth.
Instead of arriving and acclimatising for 4 weeks as I suggested, they are acclimatising for 2 weeks - in an area in the middle of its monsoon season!

Pakistan can win in Australia in 2016-17. They will have played 3 Tests in New Zealand (okay, it turned out to be 2) and 4 in England in the preceding year, and the players who don’t know where their off-stumps are should already have left the scene.

You will only win if you play your best players in Australian conditions, and that means you need Asif but especially Butt. To be quite honest, Butt should probably be the first batsman selected, and Umar Akmal the second, in spite of their baggage.

I'm happy to revisit this last part. With Misbah and Younis sure to be selected, and Salman Butt down on form, I'll happily take Sami Aslam and Babar Azam in place of Salman Butt and Umar Akmal.
 
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How are you suggesting us to get to Australia 4 weeks in advance when our NZ series finishes 2 weeks before the first Aussie test? :))

Is this another one of your suggestions where you expect our team to be in 2 places at the same time?
 
Batting Record
Player Span Mat Runs Avg 100 50
Hasan Raza 2002-2002 1 122 122 0 2
Taslim Arif 1980-1980 3 307 102.33 1 1
Khalid Ibadulla 1964-1964 1 169 84.5 1 0
Azhar Ali 2010-2014 4 431 61.57 2 2
Saeed Anwar 1994-1999 8 886 59.06 3 5
Younis Khan 2002-2014 8 850 56.66 3 3
Asad Shafiq 2014-2014 2 110 55 0 1
Hanif Mohammad 1956-1964 6 548 49.81 2 3
Sarfraz Ahmed 2010-2014 3 149 49.66 1 0
Javed Miandad 1976-1990 25 1797 47.28 6 7
Ijaz Ahmed 1988-1999 14 1085 47.17 6 1
Saleem Malik 1983-1998 15 1106 46.08 2 5
Ahmed Shehzad 2014-2014 2 183 45.75 1 0
Aamer Sohail 1994-1998 9 767 45.11 2 4
Salman Butt 2004-2010 8 718 44.87 2 4
Asif Iqbal 1964-1979 10 758 44.58 3 1
Zaheer Abbas 1972-1984 20 1411 44.09 2 12
Mohsin Khan 1979-1984 11 786 43.66 3 2
Saeed Ahmed 1959-1973 7 611 43.64 1 3
Majid Khan 1964-1981 15 915 41.59 3 3
Qasim Umar 1983-1984 5 327 40.87 1 1
Sadiq Mohammad 1972-1977 5 400 40 2 1
Abdul Kadir 1964-1964 2 156 39 0 1
Misbah-ul-Haq 2002-2014 7 416 37.81 2 2
Imran Khan 1976-1990 18 862 37.47 1 5
Javed Burki 1964-1964 2 146 36.5 0 1
Yasir Hameed 2004-2005 2 146 36.5 0 2
Mansoor Akhtar 1981-1990 5 244 34.85 1 0
Intikhab Alam 1959-1973 6 381 34.63 0 4
Inzamam-ul-Haq 1994-2004 13 784 34.08 1 6
Haroon Rasheed 1977-1982 7 293 32.55 0 3
Mudassar Nazar 1976-1988 19 893 31.89 0 5
Mohammad Yousuf 1998-2010 11 622 29.61 1 3
Moin Khan 1994-1999 9 463 28.93 1 2
Wasim Raja 1979-1983 9 334 27.83 0 2
Mushtaq Mohammad 1972-1979 8 409 27.26 1 1
Shoaib Malik 2004-2010 3 160 26.66 0 1
Shoaib Mohammad 1988-1990 6 263 26.3 0 2
Saleem Yousuf 1988-1990 6 235 26.11 0 2
Wasim Akram 1990-1999 13 562 25.54 1 2
Umar Akmal 2009-2010 5 255 25.5 0 1
Faisal Iqbal 2002-2010 5 241 24.1 0 1
Imran Farhat 2002-2010 8 377 23.56 0 2
Rameez Raja 1988-1995 8 317 22.64 0 2
DA Sharpe 1959-1959 3 134 22.33 0 1
Mohammad Wasim 1998-1999 3 130 21.66 0 1
Aamer Malik 1988-1994 4 107 21.4 0 1
Rashid Latif 1994-2002 6 212 19.27 0 1
Imtiaz Ahmed 1956-1959 4 131 18.71 0 1
Azhar Mahmood 1998-1999 5 167 18.55 0 0
 
How are you suggesting us to get to Australia 4 weeks in advance when our NZ series finishes 2 weeks before the first Aussie test? :))

Is this another one of your suggestions where you expect our team to be in 2 places at the same time?

Have you read my post?

This was a two year old piece summarising Pakistan's history Down Under and drawing lessons from it.

Unfortunately the key one - adequate acclimatisation to the bounce - has been ignored.
 
Bowling Record
Player Span Mat Wkts Avg SR 5W 10W
Arif Butt 1964-1964 1 7 16.85 30.8 1 0
Wasim Akram 1990-1999 9 36 24.05 58 3 1
Imran Khan 1976-1990 13 45 28.51 67.5 3 1
Iqbal Qasim 1976-1981 5 21 29 67.4 0 0
Sarfraz Nawaz 1972-1984 12 50 31.46 77 1 1
Mushtaq Ahmed 1990-1999 4 22 33.59 60.6 2 0
Saqlain Mushtaq 1995-1999 4 14 34.14 74.5 1 0
Mohammad Asif 2005-2010 4 13 35.23 70.6 1 0
Azeem Hafeez 1983-1984 5 19 38.57 61.7 2 0
Mushtaq Mohammad 1972-1979 8 8 39.75 72.8 0 0
Mohammad Amir 2009-2010 2 8 40.37 70.5 1 0
Waqar Younis 1990-1999 7 14 40.5 81.4 0 0
Danish Kaneria 2004-2010 5 24 40.58 64 3 0
Shoaib Akhtar 1999-2005 6 17 43.52 60.1 2 0
Azhar Mahmood 1999-1999 3 5 45.8 83.2 0 0
Javed Miandad 1976-1990 16 6 45.83 91.6 0 0
Wasim Raja 1979-1983 6 6 46.33 101.6 0 0
Mohammad Akram 1995-1999 3 7 47.71 69.4 1 0
Mohammad Sami 2004-2010 3 8 48 74.7 0 0
Saleem Altaf 1972-1977 5 11 48.09 92.8 0 0
Sikander Bakht 1979-1981 5 6 51.33 107.8 0 0
Tauseef Ahmed 1990-1990 3 5 51.6 106.8 0 0
Umar Gul 2010-2010 2 5 52.8 88 0 0
Asif Iqbal 1964-1979 9 6 52.83 93.3 0 0
Abdul Qadir 1983-1984 5 12 61 109.7 1 0
Mudassar Nazar 1976-1984 10 6 63.66 130.8 0 0
Majid Khan 1972-1981 11 5 77.4 160 0 0
Asif Masood 1972-1977 4 5 96.4 131.2 0 0
 
Is it me or it seems like none of the series were one sided or it was suspicious when it seemed one sided according to OP and they lost all?
 
Would love to see such posts from OP on the upcoming Eng-India series or gone by Eng-Bangladesh.
 
PAK are ranked number 2, would have liked a 4 test series between the teams.

Day night test will have a result for sure, looking at how Aus batters are playing. If PAK can manage 300 par scores, they should nick this one. Then you just need to draw one of the last 2 test esp the last one at Sydney might favor Yasir to draw the series even if they somehow narrowly lose the day nighter. MCG I guess will be a flat one and most difficult test to win out of the 3 for PAK.
 
"Don't agree to play in Perth" LOL :)))

What kind of logic is that? Don't like a venue so chicken out of it lmao

That's like Australia touring UAE and only wanting to play in Sharjah and not Abu Dhabi. (and still losing)
 
Would love to see such posts from OP on the upcoming Eng-India series or gone by Eng-Bangladesh.
[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] - why no love for your home country? :))
 
[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] - why no love for your home country? :))

We get it - he wants Salman Butt, Mohammad Asif and Umar Akmal back in the team and he will never change his mind on this no matter what arguments other posters put forth. Still he needs to remind them of his views by opening 10 different threads to say the same damn thing!!
 
We get it - he wants Salman Butt, Mohammad Asif and Umar Akmal back in the team and he will never change his mind on this no matter what arguments other posters put forth. Still he needs to remind them of his views by opening 10 different threads to say the same damn thing!!

i do think it might just be an epic troll job on his part

always making cases for and supporting controversial players and throwing hard workers under the bus and sometimes accusing THEM of corruption lmao
 
We get it - he wants Salman Butt, Mohammad Asif and Umar Akmal back in the team and he will never change his mind on this no matter what arguments other posters put forth. Still he needs to remind them of his views by opening 10 different threads to say the same damn thing!!

You do realise that in this thread I have not advocated for any of those three players to be selected?

And I make plenty of comments about England. I've made clear that I would play all the spinners in India, because Moeen, Ansari and Adil are all-rounders and Batty offers control.

And I never stop mentioning that Pietersen and Panesar should be in the team in India.
 
We're winning against this overrated current team.

History has no significance on today's result.
 
i do think it might just be an epic troll job on his part

always making cases for and supporting controversial players and throwing hard workers under the bus and sometimes accusing THEM of corruption lmao

I will never, ever accept the argument that an ambitious international sports team should select "good, honest, hard workers".

That is how Scott Parker played football for England, with disastrous consequences.

An ambitious international sports team will come up against the very best opposition, opposition which will almost certainly play its own offenders like Shane Warne - whose rap sheet is very similar to Mohammad Asif's - or Paolo Rossi.

So an international sports team with ambitions of reaching the top has to pick the best players it can, and move heaven and earth to keep the difficult personalities in the team.

Occasionally two players compete for the same position: Lampard and Gerard, Warne and MacGill. But generally you pick your best players, not the hardest workers.

So yes, I will not hesitate to throw hard workers under the bus. I'd rather have lazy Ian Botham than hardworking David Capel.
 
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This is a good thread with some nice insights. I do not understand why other posters are bashing the OP.

However, acclimatization to local conditions isn't as easy as it sounds. Basically, teams play first class matches to acclimatize to local conditions. However, CA tends to authorize smaller grounds (such as Canberra, Allan Border Field, Geelong and Blacktown) for such games and the conditions on these pitches are completely different to Gabba and WACA.

The other thing that Pakistan needs to take into consideration before the Australian tour is spin bowling. Finger spin just doesn't work there. Leg spin is obviously the way to go. So, Babar Azam should not be played. Shah will obviously be crucial. Nawaz is the only other option that could possibly do some damage but unfortunately he's not proved his worth with the bat or the ball.

Obviously, fast bowlers are crucial and we are going to miss Asif a lot. He was extremely deadly in the last series. Amir is no where close to that level and Wahab is very inconsistent.
 
Is it me or it seems like none of the series were one sided or it was suspicious when it seemed one sided according to OP and they lost all?

The 2004-05 series was extremely one-sided. Pakistan took their worst ever attack to Australia and Inzamam was really already gone outside Asian conditions.

2009-10 was balanced rather like this year: an unusually weak Australia against a Pakistan side which had left behind Younis Khan and Shoaib Akhtar.
 
An ambitious international sports team will come up against the very best opposition, opposition which will almost certainly play its own offenders like Shane Warne - whose rap sheet is very similar to Mohammad Asif's - or Paolo Rossi.

.

Warnes rap sheet is similar to Yasir Shah's.

Sometimes you say the silliest of things.
 
I will never, ever accept the argument that an ambitious international sports team should select "good, honest, hard workers".

That is how Scott Parker played football for England, with disastrous consequences.

An ambitious international sports team will come up against the very best opposition, opposition which will almost certainly play its own offenders like Shane Warne - whose rap sheet is very similar to Mohammad Asif's - or Paolo Rossi.

So an international sports team with ambitions of reaching the top has to pick the best players it can, and move heaven and earth to keep the difficult personalities in the team.

Occasionally two players compete for the same position: Lampard and Gerard, Warne and MacGill. But generally you pick your best players, not the hardest workers.

So yes, I will not hesitate to throw hard workers under the bus. I'd rather have lazy Ian Botham than hardworking David Capel.

just not true
 
Almost exactly two years ago I wrote a detailed post summarising Pakistan's Test history in Australia.

I was fortunate enough to win the POTW, but that means that I can't just reopen the thread under its original title.

Nevertheless, with Pakistan about to undertake their first Test tour of Australia in 7 years it might be interesting for others to review exactly how Pakistan has fared Down Under on previous tours.

So here is the post once more, with a few new reflections.
...............................................................................

Don’t let anyone tell you that Pakistan can never win a series in Australia. England has. New Zealand has. It can be done – it just needs sound preparation.

Pakistan has done okay there in the modern era at times.

1981-82 – lost a 3 match series 2-1
They were beaten on the bouncy track at the WACA – where Pakistan should never play and on the second bounciest track at Brisbane. But they won at the MCG on its flatter wicket, and should always seek to play a Test there on Boxing Day.


1983-84 – lost a 5 Test series 2-0
This sounds worse than it actually was. Imran Khan was the only fast bowler and was unfit to bowl, and by the time he joined the tour - as a batsman only – for the Third Test they were already 1-0 down, but drew the next 2 Tests.

Lessons from this tour:
1) Specialist hook/pull/cut merchants like Qasim Omar are more use in Australia than the likes of classical batsmen like Zaheer Abbas and Javed Miandad and Mohsin Khan who can’t adapt to the back-foot game.
2) Without good fast bowlers you are dead meat in Australia.
3) Pakistan will always do best at Adelaide on its flatter pitch.

(On reflection two years later, did I just talk Sharjeel Khan into the team?)

1989-90 – lost a 3 match series 1-0
Pakistan lost the First Test because they were not fully acclimatised to the moving ball and threw it away in the First Innings. Ijaz Ahmed’s cutting and pulling nearly won the match and, like Azhar Mahmood in South Africa, showed the value of backfoot specialists.

Pakistan nearly won the Second Test at Adelaide, and probably would have if Mushtaq Ahmed had been the finished article as a leg-spinner.

As ever, Adelaide was a relatively easy venue for Pakistan.

1994-95 – lost a 3 match series 2-1
Yet again, they were undercooked in terms of preparation and collapsed at Brisbane in the First Test. They also made the mistake of picking Saqlain Mushtaq instead of Mushtaq Ahmed, showing profound ignorance for the history of legspin versus offspin in Australia

The second Test was much closer – Mushtaq Ahmed was recalled and took 18 wickets in 2 Tests (whereas Saqlain took 4 wickets in 2 tests, Wasim Akram took 14 in 3 and Waqar took 8 in 3).

Pakistan then won the Third Test in Sydney.

Lessons from this tour:
1) Taller fast bowlers do better in Australia than shorter ones like Waqar Younis.
2) Legspinners do better in Australia than offspinners.
3) The batters require at least 3 First Class matches in Australia to adapt to the different length and bounce.

(Shockingly, in 2016-17 the only warm-up game is a Day/Night one in the far north in monsoon season!)

1999-2000 – lost 3-0 in Australia
This was the least one-sided 3-0 hammering in history!

Pakistan threw away winning positions in both of the first two Tests. They were hampered by Mushtaq Ahmed not having played for months and by poor team selection – how on earth was Mohammed Wasim played as an opener instead of Aamir Sohail?

Lessons from this tour:
1) Hobart is, after Adelaide, the best venue for Pakistan in Australia.
2) Pick the best batsmen in Aussie conditions, regardless of how obnoxious they may be (see S Butt, below).
3) Without a legspinner in form it is much harder to survive in Australia.
4) Expect to get slaughtered if you are dumb enough to agree to play in Perth.

2004-05 – lost 3-0 in Australia
Demolished by a better team.

Lessons from this tour:
1) Avoid Perth – bowled out for 72 to compare with 1981-82’s 62 all out.
2) Salman Butt and Younis Khan are your best batsmen in Australia – they were the only two to pass 200 runs, and were far more suited to the conditions than Inzy and Youhana were.
3) Kaneria was your leading wicket-taker – a leggie again.

2009-10 – lost 3-0 in Australia
A suspicious series defeat, as the Sydney Test had to be seen to be believed, and Mazhar Majeed later confessed to the News of the World that he had fixed it.

Lessons from this tour:
1) You can’t afford to exclude your best batsmen in Australian conditions The omission of Younis Khan was a total disaster.
2) Salman Butt, unfortunately, was again your best batsman in Australia, he scored 280 runs at 46.66, the next highest scorer was Umar Akmal with 199 runs.
3) Unfortunately again, Mohammed Asif bowled far better than Mohammed Amir (13 wickets at 28.46 compared with 8 wickets at 40.37).

So there is a clear template for success in Australia.

How to win in Australia in 2016
1) Salman Butt and Umar Akmal need to be the first two batsmen on the teamsheet if you want to win. (I despise Salman Butt, but I know that the tour of Australia is when you are really going to need him).
2) Left-handers often do well in Australia.
I will happily take Sami Aslam instead of Salman Butt.
3) Given that Saeed Ajmal will be nearly 40, the only spin bowlers you should even take on the plane are legspinners. Yasir Shah because he is the best one you have, Usman Qadir because he has more experience in Australian conditions than any other Pakistani.
4) Your top-order will get out to the Kookaburra in the first 20 overs. You need the batsmen at 6,7,8 and 9 to score 80% of the runs, so plan accordingly.
No sign of any all-rounders at this stage......
5) Make sure that the fast bowlers you take on tour – and you will require 6 – are tall. Even Waqar Younis at 6 foot was mediocre in Australia – an Ehsan Adil will always be more useful than a Junaid Khan in Australia because he is 4 inches taller.
Only five in the squad so far......
6) Don’t agree to play in Perth. You arrive in December 2016 while South Africa plays 3 Tests v Australia. Arrive 4 weeks before the First Test and play against every state you can in a First Class match – at least 3, preferably 4. Your First Test should be the Boxing Day test at the MCG and the Second Test will be the New Year one at Sydney. Ensure that the Third Test is in Adelaide or Hobart, not Perth.
Instead of arriving and acclimatising for 4 weeks as I suggested, they are acclimatising for 2 weeks - in an area in the middle of its monsoon season!

Pakistan can win in Australia in 2016-17. They will have played 3 Tests in New Zealand (okay, it turned out to be 2) and 4 in England in the preceding year, and the players who don’t know where their off-stumps are should already have left the scene.

You will only win if you play your best players in Australian conditions, and that means you need Asif but especially Butt. To be quite honest, Butt should probably be the first batsman selected, and Umar Akmal the second, in spite of their baggage.

I'm happy to revisit this last part. With Misbah and Younis sure to be selected, and Salman Butt down on form, I'll happily take Sami Aslam and Babar Azam in place of Salman Butt and Umar Akmal.

POTW, excellent analysis Junaids. May I ask how on earth did New Zealand win in Australia :))) [MENTION=132954]Aman[/MENTION]
 
Warnes rap sheet is similar to Yasir Shah's.

Sometimes you say the silliest of things.

1. Drugs - a masking agent.
2. Giving information to bookies and being paid, unlike Asif.
3. Nine separate sex scandals.

If Yasir Shah has a rap sheet like that then he really is a dark horse.
 
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I have busted the myth of your performance down under with my award winning thread not so long ago :afridi

That was a different series Shaz.:msd

In any case, drawing a series against an ATG side even without their full bowling strength is difficult. Imran would know a thing or two about that.:afridi
 
1. Drugs - a masking agent.
2. Giving information to bookies and being paid, unlike Asif.
3. Nine separate sex scandals.

If Yasir Shah has a rap sheet like that then he really is a dark horse.



A scandal sure but relevance to cricket?
 
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A scandal sure but relevance to cricket?

Of course!

I like Warnie. I really like Warnie.

But when you compare his rap sheet with Mohammad Asif's, they are actually strikingly similar - probably more similar than anyone else in the world's to Asif.

That's my only point. And if the opposition (Australia) selected Warne as soon as his ban ended, why should Pakistan tie one arm behind their own back by applying a higher moral standard to themselves?
 
Of course!

I like Warnie. I really like Warnie.

But when you compare his rap sheet with Mohammad Asif's, they are actually strikingly similar - probably more similar than anyone else in the world's to Asif.

That's my only point. And if the opposition (Australia) selected Warne as soon as his ban ended, why should Pakistan tie one arm behind their own back by applying a higher moral standard to themselves?

Because Asif is a bad influence on the younger players.
 
Because Asif is a bad influence on the younger players.

Is he really?

You see to me he looked like he was the consumate professional. He thought harder about the art of bowling than any other Pakistani that I have ever seen.

I would have thought that Ehsan Adil or for that matter any young pacer would learn an awful lot from Asif.

He got done for 1 no ball, and quite rightly paid the price. But his other CRICKET transgressions were all about enhancing his performance, weren't they?

I didn't object to the rehabilitation of Terry Jenner or for that matter the rehabilitation of Shane Warne either.
 
In 2004-05, we played well in fits and starts but never sustained our performance over five days. The bowling was weak but the batting was so brittle.

In the First Test, we had Australia reeling at Perth thanks to a spell from Akhtar but they were able to rally thanks to a sensational knock from Justin Langer. Our batting then was embarrassing, and McGrath destroyed us with 8-24 as we were bowled out for 72 and lost by a colossal margin.

In Melbourne, we started well batting first with Yousuf and Younis putting on a glorious partnership but we collapsed, losing 7 for 55 when we were 286-3 and set for a big total.

Same thing in the 3rd Test at Sydney - we were 209-2 batting first and collapsed, losing 8-95 on a 450+ pitch. Ponting blew us away with a double hundred and despite resistance from Asim Kamal in the 2nd inns we lost comfortably.

At least with this team, the batting whilst still prone to the occasional moment of madness, has a lot of solid grafters.
 
POTW, excellent analysis Junaids. May I ask how on earth did New Zealand win in Australia :))) [MENTION=132954]Aman[/MENTION]

I can't get POTW for the same post twice.

Seriously though, I hope that Mickey Arthur has looked into how New Zealand won in Australia in 1985-86.

He can't replicate the four 3 day warm-up matches.

And he can't clone Sir Richard Hadlee or Martin Crowe.

But the Kiwis' support bowling was accurate and didn't try to over-attack, and the batting was solid and took as few risks as possible. And the lower order scored a lot of runs.

And that Aussie team was even weaker than this one.
 
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Excellent analysis!

Pakistan has to play Babar Azam in Australia, can't go with an all-rounder who can't score more than 20 runs in an inning.

Also, I think Azhar Ali has a huge rule to play not just as a batsman but also with his part-time leg spin.
 
I think there very little inspiration to taken from history.
The one thing I would point out is that theres always been plenty of strife in the Pakistan squad whenever they have toured australia (in particular 1999 onwards).

If there is something that counts for Pakistan this time, that its going with a more unified squad across all three formats.
My worry remains with the senior members of the batting line up.
 
Of course!

I like Warnie. I really like Warnie.

But when you compare his rap sheet with Mohammad Asif's, they are actually strikingly similar - probably more similar than anyone else in the world's to Asif.

That's my only point. And if the opposition (Australia) selected Warne as soon as his ban ended, why should Pakistan tie one arm behind their own back by applying a higher moral standard to themselves?

It's all moot seeing as Asif isn't even close to full fitness.
 
1. Drugs - a masking agent.
<b>2. Giving information to bookies and being paid, unlike Asif.</b>

Giving information about pitch conditions is giving the bookie an advantage over other bookies. Receiving money to play poorly is betraying the game and your country. Maybe you do not understand the difference, but others do.
 
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That was a different series Shaz.:msd

In any case, drawing a series against an ATG side even without their full bowling strength is difficult. Imran would know a thing or two about that.:afridi

No it's not, you got jobbers. Even the Birmingham Bears 2nd XI would have given a decent account of themselves, yeah Imran does know a thing or two about drawing level with Goat teams unlike India who drew with a parody.
 
No it's not, you got jobbers. Even the Birmingham Bears 2nd XI would have given a decent account of themselves, yeah Imran does know a thing or two about drawing level with Goat teams unlike India who drew with a parody.



If it was just one series, we could agree with the jab from our parosiite friend, but def 3 series in a row cannot be all down to not facing their best players!

Unless Imran was able to cast spells and make their best players miss series after series :p
 
Giving information about pitch conditions is giving the bookie an advantage over other bookies. Receiving money to play poorly is betraying the game and your country. Maybe you do not understand the difference, but others do.
That's a brave argument to adopt.

Firstly, Amir bowled twice as many no balls as Asif - and is in the team.

Secondly, Amir took 6-84 in that innings. Even when he was "underperforming" he was still contributing twice as much to his country as the "clean" players.
 
Thanks for the history lesson [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION]. Hopefully this tour is better than our previous visits to Australia. Confident that we will give a good show.
 
Thanks for the history lesson [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION]. Hopefully this tour is better than our previous visits to Australia. Confident that we will give a good show.

Aussies aren't that strong right now so it probably will be easier than Poms series. I think we will win.
 
That's a brave argument to adopt.

Firstly, Amir bowled twice as many no balls as Asif - and is in the team.

Secondly, Amir took 6-84 in that innings. Even when he was "underperforming" he was still contributing twice as much to his country as the "clean" players.

You seem to effortlessly abandon logic as you move from one post to another. We were discussing whether Warne's and Asif's behaviors were the same, not whether Asif should be in the Pakistani team.

If we were discussing whether Asif should be in the Pakistani team, then bringing Amir into the discussion would have been acceptable.

As for Amir taking 6/84 while bowling deliberate no-balls, it is the principle that matters.
 
Aussies aren't that strong right now so it probably will be easier than Poms series. I think we will win.

In home conditions they are always strong, South Africa have a good record in Australia so that victory for them shouldn't be a surprise. Aussies could still win the series.

We don't have a great record in Australia so winning there won't be easy, but we shouldn't underestimate ourselves especially after our good performances in England.
 
You seem to effortlessly abandon logic as you move from one post to another. We were discussing whether Warne's and Asif's behaviors were the same, not whether Asif should be in the Pakistani team.

If we were discussing whether Asif should be in the Pakistani team, then bringing Amir into the discussion would have been acceptable.

As for Amir taking 6/84 while bowling deliberate no-balls, it is the principle that matters.

I suggest that you go back and watch Shane Warne's final spell to Mushtaq Ahmed in the Karachi Test of 1994-95 before you argue that.

It was later proven that the Pakistan skipper Saleem Malik had approached Shane Warne and Tim May to fix.

We know that May was above suspicion, and that the approach was initially made to Warne in front of May.

What tends to get forgotten is what actually then happened.

Australia took the ninth Pakistan wicket in the second innings with Pakistan still 56 runs short of victory. And Shane Warne, who had figures of 5-48 at the time, suddenly lost his menace completely, and Pakistan who were 25,000-1 to win the match then promptly did as Warne's figures blew out to 5-89, with the Pakistan number 11 scoring 20 not out.

Mohammad Asif bowled a no ball. But that Karachi Test's result made and lost fortunes in the Indian subcontinent.

I'm not accusing anyone of anything. Just read the scorecard.
 
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No it's not, you got jobbers. Even the Birmingham Bears 2nd XI would have given a decent account of themselves, yeah Imran does know a thing or two about drawing level with Goat teams unlike India who drew with a parody.

Yeah the Goat team with all their fearsome pacers retired Shaz.:msd
 
I suggest that you go back and watch Shane Warne's final spell to Mushtaq Ahmed in the Karachi Test of 1994-95 before you argue that.

It was later proven that the Pakistan skipper Saleem Malik had approached Shane Warne and Tim May to fix.

We know that May was above suspicion, and that the approach was initially made to Warne in front of May.

What tends to get forgotten is what actually then happened.

Australia took the ninth Pakistan wicket in the second innings with Pakistan still 56 runs short of victory. And Shane Warne, who had figures of 5-48 at the time, suddenly lost his menace completely, and Pakistan who were 25,000-1 to win the match then promptly did as Warne's figures blew out to 5-89, with the Pakistan number 11 scoring 20 not out.

Mohammad Asif bowled a no ball. But that Karachi Test's result made and lost fortunes in the Indian subcontinent.

I'm not accusing anyone of anything. Just read the scorecard.

It is a serious allegation to accuse someone of throwing a game, you need more than just the #11 batsman scoring 20 runs, especially as Warne could only bowl from one end. Are you saying that someone bribed Warne after he took his 5th wicket in the middle of the match?
 
1999-2000 – lost 3-0 in Australia
This was the least one-sided 3-0 hammering in history!

Pakistan threw away winning positions in both of the first two Tests. They were hampered by Mushtaq Ahmed not having played for months and by poor team selection – how on earth was Mohammed Wasim played as an opener instead of Aamir Sohail?

Lessons from this tour:
1) Hobart is, after Adelaide, the best venue for Pakistan in Australia.
2) Pick the best batsmen in Aussie conditions, regardless of how obnoxious they may be (see S Butt, below).
3) Without a legspinner in form it is much harder to survive in Australia.
4) Expect to get slaughtered if you are dumb enough to agree to play in Perth.

Mohammad Wasim scored a century in the Sydney Test,

Aamir Sohail was well past his prime, if you saw the Coca Cola Cup in 1999/00 you would know Sohail was well past it, and had a terrible series.. no feet movement, looked overweight and barely looked in any good knick..

To take a player like that (who couldn't score in Sharjah) to a test match in Aussie would be mind-boggling to say the least [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION]
 
In 2004-05, we played well in fits and starts but never sustained our performance over five days. The bowling was weak but the batting was so brittle.

In the First Test, we had Australia reeling at Perth thanks to a spell from Akhtar but they were able to rally thanks to a sensational knock from Justin Langer. Our batting then was embarrassing, and McGrath destroyed us with 8-24 as we were bowled out for 72 and lost by a colossal margin.

In Melbourne, we started well batting first with Yousuf and Younis putting on a glorious partnership but we collapsed, losing 7 for 55 when we were 286-3 and set for a big total.

Same thing in the 3rd Test at Sydney - we were 209-2 batting first and collapsed, losing 8-95 on a 450+ pitch. Ponting blew us away with a double hundred and despite resistance from Asim Kamal in the 2nd inns we lost comfortably.

At least with this team, the batting whilst still prone to the occasional moment of madness, has a lot of solid grafters.

Not reeling actually, Australia made 381 in the first innings.. which is a decent score. Akhtar got a 5'fer but it was more personal glory than team benefitting from it in his case..

Injuries/discipline issues partying, bust up with coach and captains were the norms of his tour then
 
Akhtar bowled 22 overs and conceded a 100 runs at 4.5 rpo in the first test match.. and in the second innings he was injured.

So that kind of absence really doesn't help the team at all..
 
Not reeling actually, Australia made 381 in the first innings.. which is a decent score. Akhtar got a 5'fer but it was more personal glory than team benefitting from it in his case..

Injuries/discipline issues partying, bust up with coach and captains were the norms of his tour then

Australia were 78-5 in 1st inns.
 
This is our best chance of winning in Australia. Melbourne and Sydney are flat pancakes, with Sydney favouring spin later in the game. We have the batting to put up decent scores and the bowling to match Australia. Let's hope the team is thinking of a series win and not a draw.
 
Thanks for the post... like the detail.

Question for you though: You say yourself that you think our loss in Sydney 2011 was "dodgy" and Akmals were at the heart of that. You go on to say Mazhar "confirmed he fixed it". Why would you want Umar Akmal back in the team then?

Umar Akmal first and foremost has to break into the ODI squad... let's leave him out of tests please (and I do believe Umar has a place in LOIs in the future). I still don't think we should select Sharjeel for tests. Having him in the squad won't hurt, but his first test series shouldn't be in the one country where Pakistan historically get our ** handed to us.

Anyway, on Butt/Asif... even if you forget their history, Butt doesn't warrant selection based on what he did 7 years ago. We have better options. As for Asif... is he match-fit yet? What about long-term vision? Does it benefit Pakistan to select a fast bowler on the wrong side of 32~? We have Wahab, Amir & Rahat as the core group. We would do well to select 3 more fast bowlers that are preferably RH and that should do the trick. If our fast bowlers all flop, we will lose: this is just a fact. But why should we be pessimistic? This is Pakistan we're talking about! These guys will turn up, especially if they come off a good NZ series. Let's hope they all stay fit!

As for Pakistan and its history with WACA... no doubt our batsmen struggle there big time. But this Pakistani batting line-up is the strongest line-up in my lifetime; it's stronger than the 90s IMO. Sure they will surrender every couple of innings, but they will put up a damned good fight! Our lower order has shown glimpses of batting talent, and I hope that continues here too!

The biggest obstacle is the short preparation time.. and that can't be helped since that's how it was scheduled to start with. Oh well, that's what separates the men from the boys. They have to do with what they were dealt!
 
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