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"#RIP Pakistan domestic cricket": Mohammad Hafeez

Not that I support Amir and Imad coming back, but wasn’t Hafeez also running behind the two back when he was director?
 
Its easy to talk as an analyst. Hafeez is not being truthful about why he was removed by the PCB. The reality is that he rubbed the players off the wrong way, they all unanimously complained that he bored them with his lengthy lectures and his stubborn opinions.

His solutions i.e. ban players from T-20 leagues, block NOC's are not practical, it will increase player drain from Pakistani domestic cricket and even national cricket to USA and force players to become T-20 freelancers and the Pakistani Cricket economy unlike the BCCI is not big enough to demand players to be exclusive.

PCB has no choice but to make compromises with Amir, Imad. In any case the top domestic performers were in the PSL.
 
I don't even get what hafeez is trying to say?

This isn't Odi where you check List A performances.

Majority of domestic performers were in psl, and hafeez was already aware of the 29 kakul camp players and he already knew that the final 15 would be selected from these 29?

So why is he acting like these picks are all out of the blue?
 
Savak said:
Its easy to talk as an analyst. Hafeez is not being truthful about why he was removed by the PCB. The reality is that he rubbed the players off the wrong way, they all unanimously complained that he bored them with his lengthy lectures and his stubborn opinions.

His solutions i.e. ban players from T-20 leagues, block NOC's are not practical, it will increase player drain from Pakistani domestic cricket and even national cricket to USA and force players to become T-20 freelancers and the Pakistani Cricket economy unlike the BCCI is not big enough to demand players to be exclusive.

PCB has no choice but to make compromises with Amir, Imad. In any case the top domestic performers were in the PSL.
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Hafeez already knew about the 29 players in kakul camp, he shouldn't be suprised lol.
 
Domestic cricket in Pakistan has been dying for a while, it's beyond repairable under the current PCB constitution.

Deep, deep reconstruction is needed to this board. Unfortunately, doubt it will happen.
 
T-20 cricket is mercurial cricket, you can get away with mercurial selections in this Mickey Mouse Format.

If a player had been picked in ODI and Test Cricket on the basis of PSL performances or Leagues performances i would have complained myself but for T-20 cricket, PSL and other leagues are fine for selection purposes.
 
Hafeez is deluded if he thinks that not selecting your best team before the World Cup is the right thing to do, just to satisfy some idea of fairness and merit that exists only in his head. With only 2-3 players, you could make this case. The rest all performed to earn their spot.

This is a sport. This is not about giving everyone their turn to represent Pakistan. It's about selecting the best team that has the greatest chance of winning the World Cup.
 
mominsaigol said:
I don't even get what hafeez is trying to say?

This isn't Odi where you check List A performances.

Majority of domestic performers were in psl, and hafeez was already aware of the 29 kakul camp players and he already knew that the final 15 would be selected from these 29?

So why is he acting like these picks are all out of the blue?
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Rameez has also been giving dramatic statements out of the blue. They would have more impact if they could just give reasoning as to why the players selected don't deserve it on merit. I watched the PSL, and while there were some impressive performances from domestic cricketers, none of them other than Usman Khan was head and shoulders above the guys who are getting picked.
 
Hafeez is an idiot. Time and time again our ex players, especially those who have held roles in the PCB start talking smack as soon as they’re out of a job.
 
My guess is he is talking about Imad & Amir selections who retired, don't play domestics and are still getting selected.

But the way cricket is played nowadays with leagues all over the world, established players don't really play domestics because they are either too busy with international tours and or leagues, unless you're a Tests specialist. That's simply the reality of it.

Other teams do the same too. Guys like Ben Stokes retired only to unretire just before the WC and get selected. It's not like he had to go through the rigors of domestic to prove himself again.
 
I think domestic performances are overrated. Amir and Imad have done well in so many franchises around the world over the last few years. That should count for more considering:
1) they have played recently in the WI
2) they play against better players in their leagues compared to what they would play in domestic
 
Who did he want though?

From the domestic performers, I can only think of Kamran Ghulam, Arif Yaqoob and Sohail Khan not making it. However, Kamran and Sohail Khan didn't do much in the PSL.

Arif Yaqoob did well but not as good as Abrar and Usama.

Just seems like Hafeez is whining for no reason here. They picked pretty much every guy that should have been there except maybe Mohammad Ali should have gotten a look. This includes Amir and Imad who are also good players for the squad if we just focus on quality.

No one will go 100% on the selections but I would say they were reasonable on all of them except 1-2 players which is normal in any squad on the planet.
 
Little overdramatic but he's right in that domestic performances have hardly ever been a real criteria for international selection
 
The professor thinks he some ATG player, who gave him a role in the first place? The guy shouldn’t be anywhere near management level or coaching.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Hafeez is deluded if he thinks that not selecting your best team before the World Cup is the right thing to do, just to satisfy some idea of fairness and merit that exists only in his head. With only 2-3 players, you could make this case. The rest all performed to earn their spot.

This is a sport. This is not about giving everyone their turn to represent Pakistan. It's about selecting the best team that has the greatest chance of winning the World Cup.
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Generally, it sets a wrong precedent if you start picking players who haven't played domestic cricket. Like picking Haris Rauf for tests in England Tests was an unfair and poor move as well. Zaman Khan's selection is a bit weird. He didn't do anything much in the PSL either.
Even though M. Harris didn't have a good psl, but I don't know what selectors want to do by continuing to pick Azam Khan despite him failing in every single occasion and having looked out of breath and out of place in international cricket.
Although Mohammad Hafeez isn't a very intelligent person one needs to pay attention to. But I do agree with him on not letting the tainted guys back who just have money on their minds.
 
Franchise League based selections and PSL based selections are fine for T-20 cricket but not for ODI and Test Cricket.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
Generally, it sets a wrong precedent if you start picking players who haven't played domestic cricket. Like picking Haris Rauf for tests in England Tests was an unfair and poor move as well. Zaman Khan's selection is a bit weird. He didn't do anything much in the PSL either.
Even though M. Harris didn't have a good psl, but I don't know what selectors want to do by continuing to pick Azam Khan despite him failing in every single occasion and having looked out of breath and out of place in international cricket.
Although Mohammad Hafeez isn't a very intelligent person one needs to pay attention to. But I do agree with him on not letting the tainted guys back who just have money on their minds.
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The domestic cricket argument doesn't work here because the last National T20 Cup simply wasn't that competitive. Barely any first team players were playing and I think even Ahmed Shahzad managed to finish as one of the leading run-scorers.

For T20 cricket, selection is going to be largely on the basis of PSL. And when you look at the squad almost every player did well in the PSL. I don't like Azam Khan but I think he had a SR over 170 and an average of 25+ this season, which is good from someone playing at 5/6. Amir is the only one selected on reputation. And based on the kind of clutch performances he has given in the past, it makes total sense.

While its always good to do the right thing, I feel in countries like Pakistan where the system is already in disarray, you can afford to set a bad example if it increases your chances of winning.
 
Savak said:
Franchise League based selections and PSL based selections are fine for T-20 cricket but not for ODI and Test Cricket.
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ODIs in the modern era are an extension of T20s, so PSL performances (along with List A) should form part of the selection criteria for 50 over cricket.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
The domestic cricket argument doesn't work here because the last National T20 Cup simply wasn't that competitive. Barely any first team players were playing and I think even Ahmed Shahzad managed to finish as one of the leading run-scorers.

For T20 cricket, selection is going to be largely on the basis of PSL. And when you look at the squad almost every player did well in the PSL. I don't like Azam Khan but I think he had a SR over 170 and an average of 25+ this season, which is good from someone playing at 5/6. Amir is the only one selected on reputation. And based on the kind of clutch performances he has given in the past, it makes total sense.

While its always good to do the right thing, I feel in countries like Pakistan where the system is already in disarray, you can afford to set a bad example if it increases your chances of winning.
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It's PCB's job to improve the standard of all their tournaments. Yes it's fine for PSL to be used as a selection criterion for t20i side. But the players shouldn't act like prima donnas and say we will only play PSL and no other tournament in Pakistan because they aren't good enough for a superstar like me. That attitude kills the merit.

Regarding Azam Khan, he's always done well in PSL (especially last 2-3 seasons), but the thing is PSL is played in March in cooler temperatures. When Azam was made to play in the heat of UAE last year, he couldn't even move as his wicketkeeping was struggling so badly. Let's not talk how his batting exploits went in internationals.

I don't think it's fine setting a bad example. The players who work tirelessly in the domestics and put in all the hard yards should be given a chance (if they are performing), rather than giving a chance to a person who considers himself above Pak Cricket. If Amir ends up injured in the lead up to the wt20i due to "workload" or doesn't perform like people expect him to, it should be a permanent closure to his international career.
 
topspin said:
ODIs in the modern era are an extension of T20s, so PSL performances (along with List A) should form part of the selection criteria for 50 over cricket.
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ODIs still demand batsmen who can bat at modern strike rates like Rohit Sharma while having good shot selection and to be able to bat for a good 40-50 overs, hacks like Asif Ali, Khushdil will not do.

Similarly ODIs require opening pacers to bowl well with the new ball, middle overs, spinners to actually be able to take wickets in the middle overs rather than looking to contain and good death bowling skills. T20 bowling is not good enough as our bowlers found out in the ODI WC in India.
 
Savak said:
ODIs still demand batsmen who can bat at modern strike rates like Rohit Sharma while having good shot selection and to be able to bat for a good 40-50 overs, hacks like Asif Ali, Khushdil will not do.

Similarly ODIs require opening pacers to bowl well with the new ball, middle overs, spinners to actually be able to take wickets in the middle overs rather than looking to contain and good death bowling skills. T20 bowling is not good enough as our bowlers found out in the ODI WC in India.
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So are you saying you would only base your selections for 50 over cricket on List A performances?
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
The domestic cricket argument doesn't work here because the last National T20 Cup simply wasn't that competitive. Barely any first team players were playing and I think even Ahmed Shahzad managed to finish as one of the leading run-scorers.

For T20 cricket, selection is going to be largely on the basis of PSL. And when you look at the squad almost every player did well in the PSL. I don't like Azam Khan but I think he had a SR over 170 and an average of 25+ this season, which is good from someone playing at 5/6. Amir is the only one selected on reputation. And based on the kind of clutch performances he has given in the past, it makes total sense.

While its always good to do the right thing, I feel in countries like Pakistan where the system is already in disarray, you can afford to set a bad example if it increases your chances of winning.
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Amir wasn't selected on reputation, he was one of the best bowlers wickets wise and eco wise in the PSL.

He just got overlooked by alot of people cause he finished in top 10 and younger guns like Ali outshined him.
 
topspin said:
ODIs in the modern era are an extension of T20s, so PSL performances (along with List A) should form part of the selection criteria for 50 over cricket.
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The only issue with that, is that you wouldn't be able to identify batting orders and correct batting positions so domestic and list A stats need to be checked on which position the player is most comfortable in.

Otherwise you have joke decisions like rizwan opening in t20 and batting at no 4 in odi 😂😂.
 
topspin said:
So are you saying you would only base your selections for 50 over cricket on List A performances?
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Yes, T20 performances alone if not accompanied by domestic cricket and A team performances are not sufficient for ODI Cricket. This was the biggest lesson of the Asia Cup and ODI WC in India. Our batters and bowlers were brutally exposed especially our bowlers who are now just pure T20 bowlers who lack the stamina, fitness and discipline for bowling ten overs in an innings now.
 
mominsaigol said:
Amir wasn't selected on reputation, he was one of the best bowlers wickets wise and eco wise in the PSL.

He just got overlooked by alot of people cause he finished in top 10 and younger guns like Ali outshined him.
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I don't think so. There were 13 bowlers who outperformed him in wickets and probably even more who had better economy rates than him. But that's perfectly alright because he should be in the squad.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
I don't think so. There were 13 bowlers who outperformed him in wickets and probably even more who had better economy rates than him. And that's perfectly alright.
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Didn't he take like 11 wickets in psl? Hold in let me check the stats again.

Yeah he took 10 wickets at an eco of 8.41 which is good. And some of the bowlers who outperformed him like zaman khan had an eco of nearly 10.

I think excluding the spinners and Ali + Willey, he had the most balanced Wickets + Eco rate.

Then again knowing pcb politics I wouldn't be suprised if what you're saying is true. So fair point.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
It's PCB's job to improve the standard of all their tournaments. Yes it's fine for PSL to be used as a selection criterion for t20i side. But the players shouldn't act like prima donnas and say we will only play PSL and no other tournament in Pakistan because they aren't good enough for a superstar like me. That attitude kills the merit.

Regarding Azam Khan, he's always done well in PSL (especially last 2-3 seasons), but the thing is PSL is played in March in cooler temperatures. When Azam was made to play in the heat of UAE last year, he couldn't even move as his wicketkeeping was struggling so badly. Let's not talk how his batting exploits went in internationals.

I don't think it's fine setting a bad example. The players who work tirelessly in the domestics and put in all the hard yards should be given a chance (if they are performing), rather than giving a chance to a person who considers himself above Pak Cricket. If Amir ends up injured in the lead up to the wt20i due to "workload" or doesn't perform like people expect him to, it should be a permanent closure to his international career.
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Yeah but at the same time we shouldn't be encouraging mediocrity. Performing well in domestic means nothing if you bomb on the big stage. If the domestic output was good enough we wouldn't have needed to bring two players out of retirement. PCB is backed into a corner in regards to making the domestic T20 tournament mean anything too because even if first team players are available during that window they will likely choose to play a T20 league. And can you blame them? For trying to make the most of the 2 NOC policy and the fact that the quality + competitiveness of cricket would be higher in that T20 league than the domestic T20 tournament.
 
mominsaigol said:
Didn't he take like 11 wickets in psl? Hold in let me check the stats again.

Yeah he took 10 wickets at an eco of 8.41 which is good. And some of the bowlers who outperformed him like zaman khan had an eco of nearly 10.

I think excluding the spinners and Ali + Willey, he had the most balanced Wickets + Eco rate.

Then again knowing pcb politics I wouldn't be suprised if what you're saying is true. So fair point.
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Okay I get what you meant. He did perform well in the PSL. Might not have been one of the best bowlers of the tournament but he did have fairly good numbers.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Okay I get what you meant. He did perform well in the PSL. Might not have been one of the best bowlers of the tournament but he did have fairly good numbers.
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The thing, some of the bowlers > him on that list like hasan Ali mostly bowled in the middle same with many spinners.

Amir bowled at opening and in death where bowlers eco rates are much higher.

So in hindsight really the only people who objectively outperformed him where Ali and Willey. Naseem was more or less in the same criteria.

But I do know pcb, PCB doesn't ever look at these things 😭😭, Brainless board. 100% they brought some people in due to random media drama or publicity, Babar azam as captain again being the biggest drama bazi.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Yeah but at the same time we shouldn't be encouraging mediocrity. Performing well in domestic means nothing if you bomb on the big stage. If the domestic output was good enough we wouldn't have needed to bring two players out of retirement. PCB is backed into a corner in regards to making the domestic T20 tournament mean anything too because even if first team players are available during that window they will likely choose to play a T20 league. And can you blame them? For trying to make the most of the 2 NOC policy and the fact that the quality + competitiveness of cricket would be higher in that T20 league than the domestic T20 tournament.
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Again picking Azam continuously without any improvement is encouraging both mediocrity and nepotism.
If you're a centrally contracted player, it is in your contract to prioritize Pakistan over leagues. If not, players can go the WI cricketers route.
Encouraging the little left over merit is the last thing we need to abolish as it is already rife with corruption and nepotism.
It is only in Pakistan where players toy with retirement and use it to attain selection and their demands. How many players in other countries announce retirements every time they have a disagreement with the management?
 
mominsaigol said:
The thing, some of the bowlers > him on that list like hasan Ali mostly bowled in the middle same with many spinners.

Amir bowled at opening and in death where bowlers eco rates are much higher.

So in hindsight really the only people who objectively outperformed him where Ali and Willey. Naseem was more or less in the same criteria.

But I do know pcb, PCB doesn't ever look at these things 😭😭, Brainless board. 100% they brought some people in due to random media drama or publicity, Babar azam as captain again being the biggest drama bazi.
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For this reason, pacers should be competing with each other on the basis of their roles. If you have selected 3 pacers who bowl with the new ball, then ideally your 4th pacer should be someone who can bowl in the middle overs. Our selectors always miss this. Once Naseem got injured, we picked Hasan Ali who himself hasn't ever been a reliable opening bowler.
There are only a handful of bowlers like Mcgrath, Johnson, Steyn, Bumrah, Shoaib etc who have been proficient in playing more than one role.
 
When I saw Chacha’s name. It was already over for Pakistan. Now I’m convince Chacha pays selection for his selection on the team. Hopefully ICC catches him and bars him fir 20 years
 
Savak said:
Yes, T20 performances alone if not accompanied by domestic cricket and A team performances are not sufficient for ODI Cricket. This was the biggest lesson of the Asia Cup and ODI WC in India. Our batters and bowlers were brutally exposed especially our bowlers who are now just pure T20 bowlers who lack the stamina, fitness and discipline for bowling ten overs in an innings now.
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We don’t differ so much then when it comes to the methodology used to select ODI players.

The only thing I disagree with is using FC performances. White ball specialists shouldn’t be judged by what they do in red ball cricket. You could make the exception for wicket taking spinners but for the faster bowlers and batsmen, it’s a completely different skill set. So I don’t see what the relevance is of judging ODI prospects by what they’ve accomplished in red ball cricket?
 
mominsaigol said:
The only issue with that, is that you wouldn't be able to identify batting orders and correct batting positions so domestic and list A stats need to be checked on which position the player is most comfortable in.

Otherwise you have joke decisions like rizwan opening in t20 and batting at no 4 in odi 😂😂.
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I wouldn’t include domestic performances and exclude PSL because you’ll end selecting frauds like Imam-ul-Haq.

There’s no way that a white ball specialist should be struggling to get into a PSL side. If they are, they’re clearly not good enough to play T20Is nor ODIs.
 
Once again, stay off personal stuff.
 
He is right.

Amir did nothing in the PSL. He had zero impact and wasn’t even amongst the top local pacers.

People are deluded beyond belief if they think a washed up, expired Amir will boost Pakistan’s chances of winning the World Cup.

The less said about Imad, the better. The Amir and Imad drama will end at this World Cup and delusional fans wouldn’t know what hit them.
 
Mamoon said:
He is right.

Amir did nothing in the PSL. He had zero impact and wasn’t even amongst the top local pacers.

People are deluded beyond belief if they think a washed up, expired Amir will boost Pakistan’s chances of winning the World Cup.

The less said about Imad, the better. The Amir and Imad drama will end at this World Cup and delusional fans wouldn’t know what hit them.
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What about the Babar and Rizwan drama?

How do you think that's gonna end?
 
Mamoon said:
He is right.

Amir did nothing in the PSL. He had zero impact and wasn’t even amongst the top local pacers.

People are deluded beyond belief if they think a washed up, expired Amir will boost Pakistan’s chances of winning the World Cup.

The less said about Imad, the better. The Amir and Imad drama will end at this World Cup and delusional fans wouldn’t know what hit them.
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I wouldn't say he's washed. He was dominating in the CPL, which will be the conditions he's going to see in the WC. He's a good member to have in the squad and you can always swap him out if he struggles.

It's a good risk to take even if it falls apart.

His tournament experience will also allow him to handle big-pressure moments better than some of the others.
 
Mamoon said:
He is right.

Amir did nothing in the PSL. He had zero impact and wasn’t even amongst the top local pacers.

People are deluded beyond belief if they think a washed up, expired Amir will boost Pakistan’s chances of winning the World Cup.

The less said about Imad, the better. The Amir and Imad drama will end at this World Cup and delusional fans wouldn’t know what hit them.
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Yeah, its all very well buffeting out on domestic jobbers and even then it doesn't look like he set the heather on fire. But when he comes up against the Indian, Australian elite beast batsmen etc, I think he will be found wanting and feigning injury on the field again.

For Pakistan's sake, I hope not, but I can't see him being the Messiah he's still made out to be.
 
Mamoon said:
He is right.

Amir did nothing in the PSL. He had zero impact and wasn’t even amongst the top local pacers.

People are deluded beyond belief if they think a washed up, expired Amir will boost Pakistan’s chances of winning the World Cup.

The less said about Imad, the better. The Amir and Imad drama will end at this World Cup and delusional fans wouldn’t know what hit them.
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From what I recall, we had similar hopes in the Asia Cup after CT2017, that Amir would run-through the India lineup...

But theek hai, let all this play out.

Win win for Pakistan.

An Amir failure will ensure that all this special treatment drama will end once for all.

If he does well and Pakistan win the cup then that would be fine for us as well.
 
MenInG said:
From what I recall, we had similar hopes in the Asia Cup after CT2017, that Amir would run-through the India lineup...

But theek hai, let all this play out.

Win win for Pakistan.

An Amir failure will ensure that all this special treatment drama will end once for all.

If he does well and Pakistan win the cup then that would be fine for us as well.
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That sounds like a bitter afterthought.

If Babar does well and Pakistan win the World Cup, you would be dancing like crazy.

Why this discrepancy for personal favorites?
 
Dr_Bassim said:
That sounds like a bitter afterthought.

If Babar does well and Pakistan win the World Cup, you would be dancing like crazy.

Why this discrepancy for personal favorites?
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Because I personally do not like Amir

We lived through the time he brought Shane on us

And quite shamelessly I forgot about that when he helped us win CT2017

BTW, please don't lecture me on personal favourites without looking at your own self.
 
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Not a fan of hafeez

But he has a point on domestic form alone likes of m ali, mir hamza and abbas afridi pip haris rauf and amir.

M ali was the top wicket taker amongst pace bowlers in psl so if he is benched throughout then it's not justified.
 
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MenInG said:
Because I personally do not like Amie

We lived through the time he brought Shane on us

And quite shamelessly I forgot about that when he helped us win CT2017

BTW, please don't lecture me on personal favourites without looking at your own self.
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I dont have personal favorites.

I like players based on impact which is why I prefer Fakhar over Rizwan, Imad over Nawaz or Shadab and Amir over Rauf.

But its okay if you like Babar.

Just a strange batsmen to like with no ability to impact results.
 
It's true nobody cares one bit about domestic performers. All we want are just big names and big mouth guys.
 
I don't think it's possible for anyone to not have personal favourites when watching a game you all love.

Likes and dislikes will exist just saying and theirs nothing more infuriating then watching a player you dislike win the game for Pakistan.

Happened with Amir in 2017, happened with babar and rizwan when they chased a q0 wicket victory against India in 2021.

The babar clique vs karachi clique vs the impact clique vs Stat padder and anchor clique or whatever clique will always exist.

Even now some people are getting mad on haris not being selected even though he had the worst psl imaginable.

No one can ever truly be happy lol.
 
It is the reality of Pakistan cricket that players performing in domestic was never the benchmark for them to come to light and represent Pakistan. It was mostly the PSL since it started. Moreover it is the fan hype that make the job difficult for selectors to select a particular player just because he is loud-mouth and has been saying stuff on TV.
 
Markhor said:
There is something more infuriating - watching Pakistan lose.
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Not really no, ironically I'm kinda shocked that people get more upset on watching someone like amir or babar win a game for Pakistan then they do on actually losing.

When Pakistan loses people jump at the chance to say Ha see I was right all along
 
mominsaigol said:
Not really no, ironically I'm kinda shocked that people get more upset on watching someone like amir or babar win a game for Pakistan then they do on actually losing.

When Pakistan loses people jump at the chance to say Ha see I was right all along
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Well that's why our fanbase (and cricket generally) has become a byword for toxicity.

The 2023 Test series in Sri Lanka is one of my fondest memories as a Pakistan fan - not only because we won comprehensively or that Babar finally captained with some brain cells, but it took me back to my childhood.

The forum was down at that time so there was no "that guy's a fraud, this player must be dropped" hot takes every few minutes.

No social media either. Just me getting up stupidly early in the morning, watching the TV (may have been a stream) and supporting the team.

Now we're in an age where there's a contest on the field and a contest off the field between fans. That's one of the reasons why I'm following a lot of WI cricket now - their fans are passionate but lot more chilled out than desi fans.
 
mominsaigol said:
Not really no, ironically I'm kinda shocked that people get more upset on watching someone like amir or babar win a game for Pakistan then they do on actually losing.

When Pakistan loses people jump at the chance to say Ha see I was right all along
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Typically, fans of Rizwan and Babar tend to root for others' failure in order to maintain Rizwan and Babar's positions in the team.
 
If he's pointing out the non selections of Sahibzada Farhan and M Haris, he has a point. But then again he benched Farhan for 4 straight games against new Zealand and when selected him for the only game made him come at number 6, while kept on selecting selfish "seniors" Babar and Rizwan for all five games. And never protested for non selection of Haris.

If he is pointing out at Imad and Amir, he's surely lost his sanity
 
daytrader said:
It's a team game so doesn’t make sense to berate the work horse in a team full of donkeys. Impact is subjective
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Impact can never be subjective.

Impact makes you win games.

Supporting work horses is subjective and depends on personal likes and dislikes and how much importance you give to them.
 
emranabbas said:
Typically, fans of Rizwan and Babar tend to root for others' failure in order to maintain Rizwan and Babar's positions in the team.
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Yes ik, rizwan, Babar and Misbah fans are the ones who have ruined everything.

I've seen posters over here outright claim we care more about misbah then we do Pakistan cricket.

Many of these people have the medicore mindset that without Babar and Rizwan we are nothing, even though we literally won ct 2017 without rizwan and babar's minimal input, His only input was in the final even then he got over shadowed by the entire batting line up excluding malik.

The amount of insanity in these posts is absurd. Inad wasim smoking posts, let's ban India from cricket altogether,

Even the Amir posts don't make sense, people are acting as if he just fixed and him coming back is controversial, when in reality he's been back for a long long while, if they really have such an issue, then stop supporting PCB altogether, They are the cricketing board that allowed it so start banning and boycotting Pakistan cricket lol, the argument goes both ways.

And it's absolute insanity now. These are the same people who are furious at the fact that sarfraz, Younis and Imran Khan are our only 3 trophy holders and will go on to make claims such as fluke, yk oathgate, Sarfi 2018, Imran Khan won due to England rain,

But when we talk about Babar and misbah it's always, bro misbah was the goat captain, last time we got into a wc qualifier was under misbah, or that babar led his 2022 team well and we got unlucky lol, ignoring all the insane luck and nonsense such as Nedtherlands beating sa were happening.

The worst argument I've heard is for misbah that he was a goat captain he just played with a nothing team.

Well news flash, Afridi was playing with both akmals, Hafeez(failure as an opener), a burnt out razzaq, Wahab( who before 2011 tournaments was considered a trundler), Asad shafiq, YK(Failure in odi's), Misbah etc

^^ yet this team ended Australia's unbeaten record and destroyed an all star atg Sri lankan team, Literally the strongest team was needed to get rid of Pakistan in 2011.

Misbah was a horrible captain, Babar is even worse, people just don't want to accept it.

It's like what happens in kitchen nightmares, Restraunts is failing, Owner invites Gordon ramsey for help, Gordon stated directly that the Restraunt is failing due to bad food, But the owners deny it till the bitter end constantly saying things like, Maybe the price is too high, or maybe the customers are idiots.

Any excuse to deny the truth.
 
Markhor said:
Well that's why our fanbase (and cricket generally) has become a byword for toxicity.

The 2023 Test series in Sri Lanka is one of my fondest memories as a Pakistan fan - not only because we won comprehensively or that Babar finally captained with some brain cells, but it took me back to my childhood.

The forum was down at that time so there was no "that guy's a fraud, this player must be dropped" hot takes every few minutes.

No social media either. Just me getting up stupidly early in the morning, watching the TV (may have been a stream) and supporting the team.

Now we're in an age where there's a contest on the field and a contest off the field between fans. That's one of the reasons why I'm following a lot of WI cricket now - their fans are passionate but lot more chilled out than desi fans.
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You should follow aussie cricket as well like I do, Literally their not toxic at all and are completly politics free.

Bro it's the misbah/babar/ Rizwan fans that have ruined everything.

They invade every corner of the Internet be it this forumn, or reddit, or tiktok or instagram or heck even telegram just to pick a fight with someone claiming that babar or misbah had issues.

You can't even be genuinely happy for the team, I remember the wc Sri lanka game, I was happy that Pakistan won and praised rizwan's innings yet everyone was like

" Bro how dare you be a hypocrite, you have attacked rizzu, now see what our cheetah has achieved, "

You can't support a game but critise players per game and what went wrong without causing everyone to get upset for no reason.

If rizwan and Babar do bad, I'll critise them on end, if they do good ill praise em, that's how cricket works.

Aussie fans do it 24/7 and no one complains, whines or says anything really, the whole aussie community is in unison, same with West Indies community.
 
He raised a valid point earlier and now his explanation seems fair to me as well.

---------------------------

Mohammad Hafeez speaking during an interview.

"We have two players, Imad and Amir, who have not played domestic cricket for many years, they were brought back in the team. Amir hasn't played domestic cricket for 3-4 years, and he had taken retirement, however he was also brought back,"

"Imad Wasim, who hasn't played domestic cricket and was sitting on TV, he said that he didn't want to play cricket for Pakistan because when I talked to him, he had some objections and in his opinion, he was hard done by the last management because he didn't get fair chances. So when I talked to him and told him that whatever has happened has happened, we will look after you going forward, you play for Pakistan, he said no, he wants to play leagues, but he was brought back,"

“After that, I have great respect for Usman Khan's talent, but he is not part of Pakistan's system. How will you motivate thousands of cricketers in the domestic circuit who work day and night and play domestic cricket when your selection criteria is not based on domestic cricket performance? That's why I tweeted that after the inclusion of these three players, you have killed your domestic cricket,”​
 
BouncerGuy said:
He raised a valid point earlier and now his explanation seems fair to me as well.

---------------------------

Mohammad Hafeez speaking during an interview.

"We have two players, Imad and Amir, who have not played domestic cricket for many years, they were brought back in the team. Amir hasn't played domestic cricket for 3-4 years, and he had taken retirement, however he was also brought back,"

"Imad Wasim, who hasn't played domestic cricket and was sitting on TV, he said that he didn't want to play cricket for Pakistan because when I talked to him, he had some objections and in his opinion, he was hard done by the last management because he didn't get fair chances. So when I talked to him and told him that whatever has happened has happened, we will look after you going forward, you play for Pakistan, he said no, he wants to play leagues, but he was brought back,"

“After that, I have great respect for Usman Khan's talent, but he is not part of Pakistan's system. How will you motivate thousands of cricketers in the domestic circuit who work day and night and play domestic cricket when your selection criteria is not based on domestic cricket performance? That's why I tweeted that after the inclusion of these three players, you have killed your domestic cricket,”​
Click to expand...
I agree with hafeez but you also need to look at it from the perspective of Imad. Amir I don't mind cause ik he's the arrogant type,

But in Imad's case he felt hard done by management, Imad got dropped unfairly and yes I repeat unfairly because deapite not performing well, bowlers like rauf who performed worse remained in the team and I'd be mad if I got replaced by an inferior nawaz who's only shining highlight of his career is a tulla bazi against India, but also chocking it against India and South Africa.

I wouldn't be so trustworthy if someone from management came up to me and said " Yeah we treated you unfairly in the past, it happened, but now we'll take care of you"

^^ Like bro what reason do I have to trust you now?

As for usman khan, Hes wrong because usman literally ditched the system to play for Pakistan.

Hafeez needs to understand that the pcb system isn't fair, Theirs too much favouritism especially in the case of shan and Azam and many players from karachi or players like tayyab have met the unfair side of PCB.

Have a fair system like bcci or Australian board and then I'll agree with him. Had imad, Usman done this if they were in Australia I'd be the first to criticize, but pcb isn't a fair board
 
mominsaigol said:
I agree with hafeez but you also need to look at it from the perspective of Imad. Amir I don't mind cause ik he's the arrogant type,

But in Imad's case he felt hard done by management, Imad got dropped unfairly and yes I repeat unfairly because deapite not performing well, bowlers like rauf who performed worse remained in the team and I'd be mad if I got replaced by an inferior nawaz who's only shining highlight of his career is a tulla bazi against India, but also chocking it against India and South Africa.

I wouldn't be so trustworthy if someone from management came up to me and said " Yeah we treated you unfairly in the past, it happened, but now we'll take care of you"

^^ Like bro what reason do I have to trust you now?

As for usman khan, Hes wrong because usman literally ditched the system to play for Pakistan.

Hafeez needs to understand that the pcb system isn't fair, Theirs too much favouritism especially in the case of shan and Azam and many players from karachi or players like tayyab have met the unfair side of PCB.

Have a fair system like bcci or Australian board and then I'll agree with him. Had imad, Usman done this if they were in Australia I'd be the first to criticize, but pcb isn't a fair board
Click to expand...
Another thing to add It's a t20 world cup, PSL has to be basis.

For list A I'd agree though.

But in pur domestic shehzad was a top scorer so that doesn't really spark confidence.
 
Pakistan's cricket team is in big trouble. The way they develop players is also a mess. They keep changing the rules and conditions, which makes it hard for anyone to improve. And their fast bowlers, who used to be their strength, are now struggling.

It's time for some honest reflection and real change. They need to start building from the ground up, with a focus on developing talented players and creating a team that can work together towards success. Anything less is just patching up the problem.
 
FearlessRoar said:
Pakistan's cricket team is in big trouble. The way they develop players is also a mess. They keep changing the rules and conditions, which makes it hard for anyone to improve. And their fast bowlers, who used to be their strength, are now struggling.

It's time for some honest reflection and real change. They need to start building from the ground up, with a focus on developing talented players and creating a team that can work together towards success. Anything less is just patching up the problem.
Click to expand...
They also follow Misbah’s Tactics that we need to move forward from
 
Mohammad Hafeez speaking during a TV show:

“The management deserves credit because they gave a chance to those players who the selection committee selected. The management gave them a full opportunity, which is the brand of cricket we want to stamp here, that we don't need that old brand of cricket anymore. We have been left behind by the rest of the world in terms of international cricket, and their mindset has changed. We are still stuck in our old way of playing cricket; we are still in the zone of just performing. However, in modern cricket, impactful performances are needed. A 30 that has an impact, or a 70-80 that takes the team to the winning zone, is much better than a century that doesn't contribute to winning the match. That's what it means to define the brand of cricket and get that performance from the players. That is very important.”
 
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