Role of Matthew Hayden and Vernon Philander needs to be appreciated

[Gullycricket]

I know they didn't get much time with the team but from the interviews and the videos I saw them trying to make the team think. We saw that today. Situational awareness was top notch which is something we have lacked all along. Even Waqar today on Pavillion admitted that we lose that calm all the time. Surely Hayden and Phillander played a role in just helping to keep faith in their skills.
Let's see ahead how it evolves

 

[street cricketer]

Also don't forget the Rambo effect.

 

[Savak]

Can't give these short term consultants too much credit on such short notice. They can at best just influence the approach and strategy of the boys

 

[iniqbal223]

It happens always ; as soon as Misbah-Waqar disappears we look world beaters

 

[Bewal Express]

They have had no impact. These batsman have been our best players for the last year and although Misbah little impact, one of his better legacies is putting Riz at the top.

 

[TeymurBlake]

Its only been 1 game.

 

[Saurav]

Can't give these short term consultants too much credit on such short notice. They can at best just influence the approach and strategy of the boys

and that made all the difference. Pak were aggressive and fearless and these two have a role,specially Hayden

 

[Asif321]

The mindset the environment puts a huge impact . Blessing in disguise misbah and waqar went away from this team

 

[muqarrab]

Credit to misbah for making rizwan open the innings

 

[iniqbal223]

Defeatist mentality burns today

So for last 1.5 decade Misbah and Waqar were misguiding us in the name of no talent, we cant win big games just to keep their jobs safe

As soon as these 2 conmen are gone, we are looking like world beaters

Please PCB, no more ex players near the team... Hayden Philander has done a good job on first day at office

 

[Major]

Credit goes to Misbah because he removed Sarfraz, bought Rizwan in and made Rizwan and Babar the openers.

Fans here kept crying that SHerjall and Fakhar should be openers.

 

[thelandofthebravepeople]

Credit for this should go to the former coaches. They have done of the hard work and made this team.

 

[Major]

Misbah talking about how when Rizwan started batting in top order he felt difficulty. SO they looked for a release shot. Under Shahid Aslam they practise the good length ball over the leg side which Rizwan hit today. That became his strength shot.

Misbah told that against England, they started placing fielder there, two fidlers and hoping Rizwan would not hit anything there. Misbah said to Rizwan that they are placing fielder there hoping that you would take a risk and hit it somewhere else, thus what Rizwan did he hit it over six over those fielders.

 

[reversehook]

if we are gonna talk about coaching aspect, more than hayden, vernan, saqi, razzi, etc doing anything, it was imho purely boys being unshackled from the chains of misbah and waqar that did the trick, once they were gone, we could have gone in the tournament coach less and still be just as good. those two clueless wanna be coaches ruined and held us back.

 

[Markhor]

Credit goes to Misbah because he removed Sarfraz, bought Rizwan in and made Rizwan and Babar the openers.

Fans here kept crying that SHerjall and Fakhar should be openers.

Credit also goes to Misbah and his buddy for running away from his post under false pretences of bubble fatigue just weeks before the T20 World Cup throwing the preparations into chaos.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

Just the absence of Misbah and Waqar is worth +50 runs. They made the team play like thinkers. T20 is about expressing yourself.

I do think Hayden particularly has the mindset Ramiz has been talking about. I'd give him credit. He is part of the team so he deserves it.

 

[Major]

Credit also goes to Misbah and his buddy for running away from his post under false pretences of bubble fatigue just weeks before the T20 World Cup throwing the preparations into chaos.

we all know what happened, rameez forced them to resign.

i understand you dont wana give misbah the credit. no wories.

besides you said you knew the story and werent expecting pakistan to win.

 

[zacattakk]

Credit to Misbah and Waqar for quitting before the world cup. This wouldn't have been possible otherwise

 

[ElRaja]

u cannot tell me its a coincidence that removal of waqar has lead to a significant reduction in short balls, and the few short balls that were bowled were varied by pace.

of course its too soon to judge phill and hayden, but getting rid of waqar is a big big positive.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Really reductive way of looking at things. Rizwan and Babar have been doing this for a year. This was merely the culmination of something they had been doing consistently. And for that, a lot more credit goes to Misbah and co. who promoted Rizwan to opener, backed him through and through and banked on this opening combination being the key to Pakistan's success, than a guy who joined the training camp a week ago.

And even here, the ultimate credit goes to Riz and Babar who lived up to the expectations and the investment, by delivering on the biggest stage in a high-pressure situation.

Coaches (including Hayden) played a role. But ultimately it was the players who actually played. Really need to stop making coaches the center of attention here.

 

[Bewal Express]

I am not to blame coaches or give them credit. The credit and criticism should be given to the Captain. What I will say is that Misbah decided to open with Riz and Riz has been brilliant for us. The guy is a star.

 

[Bewal Express]

u cannot tell me its a coincidence that removal of waqar has lead to a significant reduction in short balls, and the few short balls that were bowled were varied by pace.

of course its too soon to judge phill and hayden, but getting rid of waqar is a big big positive.

Or our bowlers have learnt to use their brains.

 

[iniqbal223]

I would like to congratulate Misbah and Waqar for resigning as coaches before T20 WC; so that we don't play like minnows

No more of these 2 please, and RR will earn more blank checks in future

 

[iniqbal223]

we all know what happened, rameez forced them to resign.

i understand you dont wana give misbah the credit. no wories.

besides you said you knew the story and werent expecting pakistan to win.

They are history; you can spend time writing books on defeatist mentality of Misbah and Waqar; Since their sacking/resignation is justified more than ever before now

But the fact is they are curse for Pakistan Cricket

 

[Markhor]

we all know what happened, rameez forced them to resign.

i understand you dont wana give misbah the credit. no wories.

besides you said you knew the story and werent expecting pakistan to win.

One of Pakistan's finest victories and you are only interested in pursuing your personal agenda of ensuring Misbah, a man who resigned weeks before a World Cup, gets all the praise.

That sums up your mindset perfectly.

Finally - I'm glad you've been reading my posts. I wish you also paid attention to my other 30,000 posts - many of which SUPPORTED Misbah between 2010-2017. He deserved massive credit for rebuilding our team after the spot-fixing disgrace, and leading us to #1 in Tests.

I often defended him against unfair criticism and said many times blaming one man for all our troubles was foolish.

However I'm not blind to his faults which were exposed for the world to see as a coach - a position he was appointed to despite ZERO coaching experience even at club level.

This is exactly I cannot be bothered posting on this forum as often as I used to. There are too many Pakistanis who care about personal agendas and point scoring, and not the betterment of Pakistan cricket as a whole.

 

[iniqbal223]

Credit for this should go to the former coaches. They have done of the hard work and made this team.

So Misbah can become a domestic team coach; if he has to take credit for Rizwan
But NO MORE PANAUTI near the team; we would have messed up this game had Misbah was in that dressing room

 

[TheInaudibleParadox]

Great coaches. I think their mentality more than anything has helped the team. They looked like a professional unit. Nothing extra; just pure determination and focus to get the job done.

 

[TheSultan]

Guarantee under Misbah and waqar we would never have made the start we made. Our body language would have been of total losers.

The start won us the match

 

[QalandarFan]

I give all the credit to the sacking of Misbah and Waqar, a broom could literally coach better than those two.

 

[DRsohail]

Glad Misbah and waqar were not there [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] agreed with you.The leeches have gone and we are looking better side.

 

[Jeetlodil]

Hayden be like. What were you talking about me looking at my photos with the team.

 

[Cricketrenew]

Its one game.... as coaches Misbah and Waqar were losers as players Waqar was a winner... Misbah was ok in the end.

 

[iniqbal223]

If Misbah even join this team tomorrow; we will look like the same Zimbabwe level minnow team

 

[shaz619]

It’s only one game bro lol lets see how they do in the tournament as a whole

 

[iniqbal223]

Foreign coaches are must if you want to beat India post 2003 WC
2004 Series loss : Javed Miandad
2005 ODI / Test series vs India : Bob Wooolmer
2006 Test series vs India : Bob Woolmer
2008 Kitply Cup : Lawson
2012 ODI series vs India : Dav Whatmore
2017 CT : Mickey
2021 WT20 : Hayden/Philander

 

[Savitar]

Misbah would have wanted Imad to bowl the first over.

 

[shamaan]

I would give some credit to Philander I have never seen Rauf bowl as quick as he has today also you hardly see Rauf bowl slower balls.

 

[Markhor]

One of Pakistan's finest victories and you are only interested in pursuing your personal agenda of ensuring Misbah, a man who resigned weeks before a World Cup, gets all the praise.

That sums up your mindset perfectly.

Finally - I'm glad you've been reading my posts. I wish you also paid attention to my other 30,000 posts - many of which SUPPORTED Misbah between 2010-2017. He deserved massive credit for rebuilding our team after the spot-fixing disgrace, and leading us to #1 in Tests.

I often defended him against unfair criticism and said many times blaming one man for all our troubles was foolish.

However I'm not blind to his faults which were exposed for the world to see as a coach - a position he was appointed to despite ZERO coaching experience even at club level.

This is exactly I cannot be bothered posting on this forum as often as I used to. There are too many Pakistanis who care about personal agendas and point scoring, and not the betterment of Pakistan cricket as a whole.

No response [MENTION=135038]Major[/MENTION] ?

You running away like your hero ?

 

[Major]

No response [MENTION=135038]Major[/MENTION] ?

You running away like your hero ?

WHat should i respond to?

You wont accept the fact that misbah improved rizwans batting, shofted him in the opening slot along with babar, made him practise that release shot.

Everyone critisized misbah for making rizwan and babar open and droping sarfraz. People said unfit sharjeel and fakhar zaman should open.

Guess what, its misbah's coaching and strategy that helped us win against india.

But no one is gonna accept that. People like akhtar who used to bark against babar and rizwan on social media is now singing praises of Pakistan cricket.


Many of you were saying its a story that has the same ending....

 

[Markhor]

WHat should i respond to?

You wont accept the fact that misbah improved rizwans batting, shofted him in the opening slot along with babar, made him practise that release shot.

Everyone critisized misbah for making rizwan and babar open and droping sarfraz. People said unfit sharjeel and fakhar zaman should open.

Guess what, its misbah's coaching and strategy that helped us win against india.

But no one is gonna accept that. People like akhtar who used to bark against babar and rizwan on social media is now singing praises of Pakistan cricket.


Many of you were saying its a story that has the same ending....

Either you are a liar or plain ignorant. I said this in the matchthread:

He deserved credit for the Babar-Rizwan combo but I've never seen Pakistan under them develop clear bowling plans against opposition as they did today.

I still have a soft spot for Misbah for the Test captain - but you are so wedged in his rear-end you cannot even accept mild or factual criticism of his mistakes.

Good night.

 

[Major]

Either you are a liar or plain ignorant. I said this in the matchthread:



I still have a soft spot for Misbah for the Test captain - but you are so wedged in his rear-end you cannot even accept mild or factual criticism of his mistakes.

Good night.

Lol than what are you tagging me for?

There is nothing to critisize. He did well as a coach for a team that lacks fit atheletes

 

[Gullycricket]

He mentioned he can't do much about technique and all in short time. But he had heard from Dean Jones and he wanted to bring that calmness and situational awareness. Also seems to have some role in the matchups.

 

[Saurav]

they definitely are having big impact specially with less heralded players like Rauf,Asif Ali,Shadab

 

[Asif321]

Definitely his presence is helping. With misbah we would have choked in both games

 

[ask_analyse_act]

If Misbah even join this team tomorrow; we will look like the same Zimbabwe level minnow team

100% exactly. Mindset and approach makes a huge difference.

Before playing the match Misbah would be practicing about saying those same sentences in press con after they lose.

Misbah and Waqar are such a bad influence to be part of the dressing room. Creates a defeatist mindset and environment. Players played like they were just unshackled from those chains tied to them by Mis Waq.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

Misbah would have wanted Imad to bowl the first over.

Indeed , like this there are many things that happened in the last two games would have given the opposition the upper hand


Calmness and situational awareness as they call it was doing wonders for this team , who ever spelled that to heir ears deserves credit and I think that comes from the champion himself Haydos.

He was the one talking about it little earlier before the tournament damn sure he taught these guys some trick that Aussies follow to put the opposition on the back foot.

 

[LaLoco]

Was watching Shoaib Akhtar interview, I do not agree with Shoaib Akthar most of the time but he said, "Babar was allowed to be a free captain", and you see that on the field and during his post-match interviews.

 

[mon858]

Give some credit to Saqi also. He also brings sense of calmness, situational awareness and some improvement in spin dept too.
Definitely seems a bit more professional and methodical team executing to plans than before.

 

[iniqbal223]

WHat should i respond to?

You wont accept the fact that misbah improved rizwans batting, shofted him in the opening slot along with babar, made him practise that release shot.

Everyone critisized misbah for making rizwan and babar open and droping sarfraz. People said unfit sharjeel and fakhar zaman should open.

Guess what, its misbah's coaching and strategy that helped us win against india.

But no one is gonna accept that. People like akhtar who used to bark against babar and rizwan on social media is now singing praises of Pakistan cricket.


Many of you were saying its a story that has the same ending....

Misbah is like : Are yaar match na loose kar jaayein, sab log apne apne 25-30 runs banalo; main baad main Bol doonga pitch kharaab thi; and we are not world class team so we are proud to lose to India/NZ; they are much better teams than us

 

[oatmeal]

I doubt Philander/Hayden made a lot of difference. They can offer good advice and a fresh perspective to players which is useful, but building a squad requires years of planning and grooming of youngsters. Both the credit and the criticism should go to Misbah/Waqar and even Mickey Arthur to a certain extent

 

[Manik Rao]

I doubt Philander/Hayden made a lot of difference. They can offer good advice and a fresh perspective to players which is useful, but building a squad requires years of planning and grooming of youngsters. Both the credit and the criticism should go to Misbah/Waqar and even Mickey Arthur to a certain extent

It's virtually the exact same bunch of players that quite recently got humiliated by England D, Zimbabwe and Srilanka C like sides, under Misbah.

Only a month after Misbah/Waqar got sacked, the same bunch of players suddenly starts dominating India and Nz like teams. Doesn't take a Sherlock to figure out who should get credit and who should be bashed.

Anyone with iota of common sense would see Babar Azam's amazing speech after the win against India and compare that with his absolutely cringeworthy pressers pre & post England D humiliation, when Misbah was around.

Instead of taking reaponsibility for the loss, all his efforts during Eng tour were on blaming Covid & external factors for the humiliation, as taught by Misbah-The-Excuse-Churner.

On the contrary, now Babar's entire focus is on telling his players to worry about factors which are within their own control. Practice, effort, agility etc... Instead of blaming everything else under the sun.

Why was Misbah not able to deliver clinical performances like the ones we saw twice in last 3 days, during the course of his 2 year stint? Why was the exact same group not able to close games out despite Babar, Rizwan and Shaheen delivering the goods on consistent basis? Because a herd of 100 lions when led by a Jackal, would make all Lions Jackals too. You get rid of the jackal you get rid of the mediocre mindset.

 

[iniqbal223]

It's virtually the exact same bunch of players that quite recently got humiliated by England D, Zimbabwe and Srilanka C like sides, under Misbah.

Only a month after Misbah/Waqar got sacked, the same bunch of players suddenly starts dominating India and Nz like teams. Doesn't take a Sherlock to figure out who should get credit and who should be bashed.

Anyone with iota of common sense would see Babar Azam's amazing speech after the win against India and compare that with his absolutely cringeworthy pressers pre & post England D humiliation, when Misbah was around.

Instead of taking reaponsibility for the loss, all his efforts during Eng tour were on blaming Covid & external factors for the humiliation, as taught by Misbah-The-Excuse-Churner.

On the contrary, now Babar's entire focus is on telling his players to worry about factors which are within their own control. Practice, effort, agility etc... Instead of blaming everything else under the sun.

Why was Misbah not able to deliver clinical performances like the ones we saw twice in last 3 days, during the course of his 2 year stint? Why was the exact same group not able to close games out despite Babar, Rizwan and Shaheen delivering the goods on consistent basis? Because a herd of 100 lions when led by a Jackal, would make all Lions Jackals too. You get rid of the jackal you get rid of the mediocre mindset.

That mindset has played a major part in being us mediocre

 

[iniqbal223]

WHat should i respond to?

You wont accept the fact that misbah improved rizwans batting, shofted him in the opening slot along with babar, made him practise that release shot.

Everyone critisized misbah for making rizwan and babar open and droping sarfraz. People said unfit sharjeel and fakhar zaman should open.

Guess what, its misbah's coaching and strategy that helped us win against india.

But no one is gonna accept that. People like akhtar who used to bark against babar and rizwan on social media is now singing praises of Pakistan cricket.


Many of you were saying its a story that has the same ending....

Knock knock!!

Rizwan was hitting centuries against Australia during Mickey Arthur era
So before you think we al are fools and start with your paid Misbah agenda; do your homework
You are the worst to be hired by Misbah to defend you here.. Just like Misbah your logics are clueless

 

[Major]

Knock knock!!

Rizwan was hitting centuries against Australia during Mickey Arthur era
So before you think we al are fools and start with your paid Misbah agenda; do your homework
You are the worst to be hired by Misbah to defend you here.. Just like Misbah your logics are clueless

atleast have the guts to adress to the posters in the rizwan thread. I understand you must be hiding

 

[UzmanBeast]

I would say that Hayden and Philander have helped my making the dressing room a good, calm environment.

They're guys who won't be criticized, and they're guys who won't push the players around.

They're supporting the players.

 

[Kianig89]

Definitely it's an upgrade like from Sam Allardyce to Frank Rijkaard

 

[MenInG]

Hayden/Philander speaking to the troops after the NZ Game

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[Justcrazy]

Hayden/Philander speaking to the troops after the NZ Game

<div style="width: 100%; height: 0px; position: relative; padding-bottom: 56.250%;"><iframe src="https://streamable.com/e/orlnhh" frameborder="0" width="100%" height="100%" allowfullscreen style="width: 100%; height: 100%; position: absolute;"></iframe></div>

Very very professional talk. I think Hayden , Saqlain , Philander can make difference to way Pakistan play cricket. If Pakistan can change there attitude and commitment they should be able to win another 10 % of their games which they would have lost.

 

[silentkiller187]

Can anyone share the video PCB posted yesterday where Hayden was giving a talk to Kushdil Shah, seems like a very logical professional coach who keeps things simple, something we have missed over the years

 

[Asif321]

It's such a upgrade over our ex coaches
Mr misbah " talent nahi hai Pakistan mein "
Waqar "hinduo ke beech mein nimaz padi"

You can imagine how these guys would have been talking in dressing room

 

[jazbati]

Have always said that the role of the coaches is to be there to support and not tinker too much and mess with players head. At this level, you can’t! Misbah and Waqar were literally dictating the players.

This is why Ravi Shastri also had a good tenure. Sit back and support the team. We are now seeing true colors of Babar Azam and he is shining even brighter because the coaches are letting him do his thing.

 

[silentkiller187]

 

[CricVet]

Thank You CANCER of Pak LOI cricket to leave and Pakistan finding the professionals to do the job the way it is supposed to be done. The fear monger does not deserve any spot in Pak cricket admin.

 

[Civil]

Wow I like it..especially compared to our former helms with their "Dekho Ji ab somethings are out of our hands" type statements.

 

[Gullycricket]

Another example of subtle ways of letting the player know his weaknesses. Khushdil as we all know is dominant legside player. Hayden showing him to open up and how to play more on off side. Really liking this
https://youtu.be/Or31ok1NxHk


Also I wanted to add that now seeing Misbah and Waqar on A sports, they have done good work with the team. I only feel they were bit lacking in imparting knowledge related to mental aspects of the game. Waqar even mentioned how they used to panic in big games all along last 3 decades. Ofcourse Hayden being a big player and won lot of WC matches is the best guy you would want.

 

[oatmeal]

It's virtually the exact same bunch of players that quite recently got humiliated by England D, Zimbabwe and Srilanka C like sides, under Misbah.

It's T20 cricket which is very dependent on conditions and the form of players in that specific tournament. When the team is winning, every one associated comes across looking like a magician. That doesnt mean Hayden and Philander are the cause of the victories. Sure they would have helped but they are not the main reason behind the great performance