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Russia invades Ukraine

cpleigh said:
Try looking on non Kremlin news feeds.

Absolutely no point in giving u any evidence as you'll just claim it's fake
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I read BBC and CNN daily but nothing there to prove this offensive, just their usual narration standing in chicken Kyiv lol.

Just post a link Mr Leigh, fascinated as to where you get your info ...
 
You asked me to give you a yes and no answer. Which I did.

Where you.. never answer a direct question
 
It is clear, Western liberals are totally scared now. We know NATO is too scared to protect its JC citizens against Russia as it would lead to global annihilation, and on top of this, the West have no means of paying for high energy costs courtesy of Western sanctions.

Winner of this world is the person who sleeps easy at night, and it ain't the West!
 
cpleigh said:
Evidence of balanced reporting from the BBC though. At least you can't complain of its bias
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BBC are not reporting anything but Ukranian claims, its there in black and white :))

Im asking for evidence, you or the holy BBC have none and are only taking whatever Ukrainians says as 100% truth. You did this early in the conflict, which made you write stuff such as Ukraine has won already. lol.

Im sure you're a decent chap but please learn to debate.
 
KingKhanWC said:
I read BBC and CNN daily but nothing there to prove this offensive, just their usual narration standing in chicken Kyiv lol.

Just post a link Mr Leigh, fascinated as to where you get your info ...
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There's a few posts flying around from Russian soldiers and Wagner mercs confirming it.

Just seen a video of Russians feeling belograd tonight. No idea why.
 
cpleigh said:
There's a few posts flying around from Russian soldiers and Wagner mercs confirming it.

Just seen a video of Russians feeling belograd tonight. No idea why.
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What is it with you and company level offensives? There are literally half a dozen of these every day. That's why we don't bother discussing tgem. When you have evidence of a BTG level offensive then give us that info.

Belgoradix tight on the border and prone to attacks, quite normal for people to want to leave until things are sorted.
 
KingKhanWC said:
What a clown. Ukraine has been using drones to attack the plant since July.

In desperation Ukranians want to cause a nuclear disaster to blame Russians hoping more help will come. This was expected, as I wrote months back. Lets see if the inspectors tell the truth when they visit.
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I don’t believe that. Ukrainians have already suffered a massive nuclear accident on their soil. Thousands of square miles poisoned and very nearly a meltdown. They know what happens.

This is Russia pushing psychological buttons.
 
Cuban missile crisis.

USA parked nukes in Turkey, Russia responded.

Now we are told to care about a Nuclear powerplant in Ukraine.

You reap what you sow.
 
Robert said:
I don’t believe that. Ukrainians have already suffered a massive nuclear accident on their soil. Thousands of square miles poisoned and very nearly a meltdown. They know what happens.

This is Russia pushing psychological buttons.
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Zelensky is working for the benefit of Ukranians, he is a billionaire with property in US, not much different to the Afghan puppets who are now living in US after the Taliban returned. Zelensky has banned opposition groups, many Ukranians inc in the army want him gone.

As Russia is giving them a good hiding , in desperation and for new scary news his masters have said they will use nuclear disasters to help their cause, raise the declining sympathy and help out the industrial military complex with more money.

It makes no sense for Russia to attack a site they have been protecting for months.
 
Technics 1210 said:
Cuban missile crisis.

USA parked nukes in Turkey, Russia responded.

Now we are told to care about a Nuclear powerplant in Ukraine.

You reap what you sow.
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Was this after Russia invaded and conquered nearly all of Eastern Europe and put Nukes in them?
 
cpleigh said:
Was this after Russia invaded and conquered nearly all of Eastern Europe and put Nukes in them?
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Evidence, where is it? Or are you expecting readers to accept your revision of history?

Otherwise I suggest you read some history on why USA deployed weapons in Italy and Turkey which sparked the beginning of the Cuban missile crisis.
 
Evidence of them conquering most of Eastern Europe? Or that they put Nukes in Eastern Europe?

Well after the Soviet Union broke up, Ukraine, Belarus and KAzakhstan all had them.

They also based Nukes in KAlingrad, and still do
 
Turns out the Ukrainian push in the south yesterday was moderately successful. They made some gains but suffered huge losses because of the terrain. It is expected - it's mostly wide open fields with no cover so both sides will struggle to make gains.

At the same time the Russians are pushing around the North of Kharkiv, by the moves they are making it seems like the Russians have no intention of going into Kharkiv but rather surround it. So far a couple of small settlements taken but Kharkiv is a huge city so it will take a long time regardless of the tactics.

The Russian 3rd corps is preparing to enter the battle with the support of more than 200 combat jets, so it'll be interesting to see where they deploy them.
 
Robert said:
That’s not what he said. Listen again. He’s a top-level professional soldier giving his opinion. He makes a lot of sense to me.
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Don't insult my intelligence..I've heard enough of this to know what he was saying..
 
bones said:
Turns out the Ukrainian push in the south yesterday was moderately successful. They made some gains but suffered huge losses because of the terrain. It is expected - it's mostly wide open fields with no cover so both sides will struggle to make gains.

At the same time the Russians are pushing around the North of Kharkiv, by the moves they are making it seems like the Russians have no intention of going into Kharkiv but rather surround it. So far a couple of small settlements taken but Kharkiv is a huge city so it will take a long time regardless of the tactics.

The Russian 3rd corps is preparing to enter the battle with the support of more than 200 combat jets, so it'll be interesting to see where they deploy them.
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With offensives like this on both sides it is better to wait and see where we are in a week or two. Nothing you hear at the moment can be independently verified so the best thing to do is analyse a mass of information and you can't get that until a few days have passed. The MSM will not tell you what's happening either for various reasons some are very logical e.g. unverified reports etc and some political.

The kherson offensive is a massive gamble for the Ukrainians but they need it to succeed to keep the Russians put of western Ukraine. If it fails it will prove to be a body blow for them..
 
cpleigh said:
Evidence of them conquering most of Eastern Europe? Or that they put Nukes in Eastern Europe?

Well after the Soviet Union broke up, Ukraine, Belarus and KAzakhstan all had them.

They also based Nukes in KAlingrad, and still do
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So, you do not have it. You insinuated USA parked missiles in Turkey because Russia had parked nukes in Eastern Europe. You have presented no evidence to back your claim. This is very typical of you.
 
KingKhanWC said:
Zelensky is working for the benefit of Ukranians, he is a billionaire with property in US, not much different to the Afghan puppets who are now living in US after the Taliban returned. Zelensky has banned opposition groups, many Ukranians inc in the army want him gone.

As Russia is giving them a good hiding , in desperation and for new scary news his masters have said they will use nuclear disasters to help their cause, raise the declining sympathy and help out the industrial military complex with more money.

It makes no sense for Russia to attack a site they have been protecting for months.
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Zelenskyy was a stand-up comic, how could he be a billionaire? That would make him three times as rich as Will Smith. He’s worth a few $million through shares in Kvartal 95, a media company. He has a flat in Kyiv and another in Italy, but none in the US.

You are mixing him up with his predecessor, who is a billionaire. Kremlin propaganda conflates the two.

Ukraine has suffered one Chernobyl already. They won’t risk another. These people aren’t insane.
 
Technics 1210 said:
So, you do not have it. You insinuated USA parked missiles in Turkey because Russia had parked nukes in Eastern Europe. You have presented no evidence to back your claim. This is very typical of you.
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What better evidence is there then physical Nukes in the countries listed?

***?!?
 
So news filtering through about this Kherson counter offensive. Apparently 3 brigades were used. 2 failed and suffered losses before retreating. 1 brigade in the centre was successful and made some gains and suffered less losses. This brigade can’t do much because of the other two failures. So there could another push but they will fail again because the Russians have air superiority.
 
If this is successful then the Russians need to announce a general mobilisation. Otherwise there is no chance they are ever taking over a massive country the size of Ukraine with a token 100,000 soldiers quickly. Had they done that ie started with a general moblisation then this war would have been over and they would have overran Ukraine's defences in the first two month.
 
Pakpak said:
If this is successful then the Russians need to announce a general mobilisation. Otherwise there is no chance they are ever taking over a massive country the size of Ukraine with a token 100,000 soldiers quickly. Had they done that ie started with a general moblisation then this war would have been over and they would have overran Ukraine's defences in the first two month.
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Putin has no interest in taking the whole of Ukraine. He said this if we pay attention to his talks. He wants Odesa, Kharkiv and possibly Dnipro but that’s it. Anyone who thinks he wants Kyiv or Lviv for example is mislead.

I disagree, it seems like the Americans wanted to fight to the last Ukrainian irrespective of what the Russians did or could have done.
 
Pakpak said:
If this is successful then the Russians need to announce a general mobilisation. Otherwise there is no chance they are ever taking over a massive country the size of Ukraine with a token 100,000 soldiers quickly. Had they done that ie started with a general moblisation then this war would have been over and they would have overran Ukraine's defences in the first two month.
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Mobilisation only really works if the existence of your country is in danger.
Turning your entire economy over to a wartime effort isn't great for business, also putting weapons into young mens hands who have little interest in fighting for nothing.

Thats how revolutions start
 
Robert said:
Zelenskyy was a stand-up comic, how could he be a billionaire? That would make him three times as rich as Will Smith. He’s worth a few $million through shares in Kvartal 95, a media company. He has a flat in Kyiv and another in Italy, but none in the US.

You are mixing him up with his predecessor, who is a billionaire. Kremlin propaganda conflates the two.

Ukraine has suffered one Chernobyl already. They won’t risk another. These people aren’t insane.
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Billionaire or millionaire, whatever he is its a lot. It was all in the Pandora papers, you wont find it on the BBC.

Ukraine have admitted to targeting the nuclear plants. You are very wrong.
 
bones said:
So news filtering through about this Kherson counter offensive. Apparently 3 brigades were used. 2 failed and suffered losses before retreating. 1 brigade in the centre was successful and made some gains and suffered less losses. This brigade can’t do much because of the other two failures. So there could another push but they will fail again because the Russians have air superiority.
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From what Ive read, the 2 brigades suffered heavy losses so retreated.

Russia is now preparing a force with 200 fighter jets to help bomb them.

Seems like Russia allowed them to build up their forces, allow them to gather in an area and now will bomb them to hell.

Ukraine will not recapture any significant territory in the East. The war was won months ago.,
 
Gazprom makes record £36bn profit as western sanctions fail to bite.

Russian gas giant Gazprom has made a record profit of 2.5 trillion roubles (£35.8bn) in the first half of the year despite Western sanctions.

Gazprom's board has recommended paying a dividend worth £8.6bn to the Russian government which owns 49.3pc of the company's shares after confirming its base for payouts had reached 2.4 trillion roubles.

The board has suggested delivering a payout of 51.03 roubles per ordinary share or a total payout of 1.208 trillion roubles, subject to shareholder approval.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/busines...cord-36bn-profit-western-sanctions-fail-bite/
 
The madness in all of this isn't what the Americans or the Ukranians have done. It isn't what the Russians have done because if I put myself in any of their shoes I could see and understand the case they are making for the stance they've taken.

The madness in all of this is by the European leaders. Either they knew about the sanctions backfiring and didn't care what it would do to the people, in which case they should be put on trial for treason in their countries. Or they underestimated the impact and now are reeling, in which case they should all be stripped of their positions with some other adequate punishment.
 
bones said:
The madness in all of this isn't what the Americans or the Ukranians have done. It isn't what the Russians have done because if I put myself in any of their shoes I could see and understand the case they are making for the stance they've taken.

The madness in all of this is by the European leaders. Either they knew about the sanctions backfiring and didn't care what it would do to the people, in which case they should be put on trial for treason in their countries. Or they underestimated the impact and now are reeling, in which case they should all be stripped of their positions with some other adequate punishment.
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There's no sane justification for what the Russians have done.

They have destroyed their own economy.

They have destroyed almost their entire conventional military armoury and lost almost half their army.

They have made NATO countries double their military spending.

They have driven their neighbours into NATO.

They have taken a tiny additional part of Ukraine, but they have reduced it to rubble so it is worthless.

And they have completely alienated the ethnic Russian part of the Ukrainian population, who now hate Russia and want to stay Ukrainian.

All because Putin was taking terrible advice, and lost touch with reality.
 
Junaids said:
All because Putin was taking terrible advice, and lost touch with reality.
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I can only think that he is getting old and sick, and can't wait any longer to re-establish his dream of a Second Russian Empire.
 
bones said:
The madness in all of this isn't what the Americans or the Ukranians have done. It isn't what the Russians have done because if I put myself in any of their shoes I could see and understand the case they are making for the stance they've taken.

The madness in all of this is by the European leaders. Either they knew about the sanctions backfiring and didn't care what it would do to the people, in which case they should be put on trial for treason in their countries. Or they underestimated the impact and now are reeling, in which case they should all be stripped of their positions with some other adequate punishment.
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If Russia parked weapons in Mexico, the USA would have done exactly the same.

NATO is to blame for this mess, more so, now The Western economy is rapidly declining into recession, Russia’s economy is flying high.

Russia can handle and live through cold winters, the West cannot.

NATO handed Russia a victory on a silver platter.
 
Turns out the counter offensive in the south by Ukraine was a catastrophic failure motivated by political agendas rather than military ones. Videos flooding through of many destroyed tanks, ambulances rushing soldiers through to hospitals in Mikolaiv and Odesa.

The reason why the Ukrainians want to stay quiet is because they sufferered horrific losses.
 
There's mounting evidence that the war in Ukraine could have been over by this point, but key Western backers of Kiev sought to sabotage the potential for peaceful settlement through negotiations. That's precisely what regional Ukrainian media reports concluded as early as May, soon after the UK's Boris Johnson showed up in the capital on a "surprise" visit to meet with President Volodymyr Zelensky for the first time the month prior.

ZH
 
So much for all going well in Russia.

The head of Lukoil just “accidentally” fell to his death from a window. Or, as the Russian media is reporting, he died after a long illness.
 
The Grayzone
A Ukrainian soldier near Mykolaiv. Photo by Cory Popp.
Ukraine war veterans on how Kiev plundered US aid, wasted soldiers, endangered civilians, and lost the war
LINDSEY SNELL AND CORY POPP·AUGUST 18, 2022

“The weapons are stolen, the humanitarian aid is stolen, and we have no idea where the billions sent to this country have gone,” a Ukrainian complained to The Grayzone.
In a video sent via Facebook messenger in July, Ivan* can be seen standing next to his car, an early 2010s model Mitsubishi SUV. Smoke is pouring out of the rear window. Ivan laughs and pans his phone’s camera across the length of the vehicle, pointing out bullet holes. “The turbocharger died in my car,” he said, panning his phone toward the front of the vehicle. “My commander says I should pay to repair it myself. So to use my own car in the war, I need to buy a new turbocharger with my own money.”

Ivan flipped the camera toward his face. “Well, you ****ing mother****er members of parliament, I hope you **** each other. Devils. I wish you were in our place,” he said.

Last month, Ukraine’s parliamentarians voted to give themselves a 70% salary increase. Filings indicate the raise was enabled and encouraged by the billions of dollars and euros of aid that have poured in from the US and Europe.

“We, the Ukrainian soldiers, have nothing,” said Ivan. “The things the soldiers have been given to use in the war came directly from volunteers. The aid that goes to our government will never reach us.”

Ivan has been a soldier since 2014. Currently, he’s stationed in the Donbas region, where he is tasked with using small, consumer-grade drones to spot Russian positions for artillery targeting. “There are so many problems on the frontline now,” he said. “We don’t have an internet connection, which makes our work basically impossible. We have to drive to get a connection on mobile devices. Can you imagine?”

Another soldier in Ivan’s unit sent us a video of himself from a trench near the frontlines in Donbas. “According to documents, the government has built us a bunker here,” he says. “But as you see, there are only a few centimeters of a wood covering over our heads, and this is supposed to protect us from tank and artillery shelling. The Russians shell us for hours at a time. We dug these trenches ourselves. We have two AK-47s between 5 soldiers here, and they jam constantly because of all the dust.

“I went to my commander and explained the situation. I told him it’s too hard to hold this position. I told him I understand this is a strategically important point, but our squad is broken, and no relief is coming for us. In 10 days, 15 soldiers died here, all from shelling and shrapnel. I asked the commander if we could bring some heavy equipment to build a better bunker and he refused, because he said the Russian shelling could damage the equipment. Does he not care that 15 of our soldiers died here?”

“If you tried to explain the situation Ukrainian soldiers are facing to an American soldier, they would think you were insane,” said Ivan. “Imagine telling an American soldier that we are using our personal cars in the war, and we’re also responsible for paying for repairs and fuel. We’re buying our own body armor and helmets. We don’t have observation tools or cameras, so soldiers have to pop their heads out to see what’s coming, which means at any moment, a rocket or tank can tear their heads off.”

Illya*, a 23 year-old soldier from Kiev, says his unit is facing the same conditions in another part of the Donbas region. He joined the Ukrainian Army shortly after the war started. He has a background in IT and knew such expertise was in high demand. “If I had known how much deception there was in this Army, and how everything would be for us, I never would have joined,” he said. “I want to go home, but if I flee, I face prison.”

Illya and the other soldiers in his unit lack weapons and protective gear. “In Ukraine, people cheat each other even in war,” he said. “I’ve watched the medical supplies donated to us being taken away. The cars that drove us to our position were stolen. And we have not been replaced with new soldiers in three months, though we should have been relieved three times by now.”


A billboard calls on Ukrainians to report “Russian collaborators.” Photo by Cory Popp.
“Everyone is lying”: US doctor describes shocking corruption
Samantha Morris*, a doctor from Maine, went to Ukraine in May to try to help provide medical training for soldiers. “The first time I crossed the border from Poland, I had to hide my medical supplies under mattresses and diapers to prevent them from being stolen,” she said. “The border guards on the Ukrainian side will just take things, and tell you, ‘we need this for our war,’ but then, they just steal the items and resell them. Honestly, if you don’t hand-deliver donations to the intended recipients, the items will never reach them.”

Morris and a few other American medical professionals began to hold training courses in Sumy, a mid-sized city in northeastern Ukraine. “We drew up a contract with the governor in Sumy, though all they provided to us were meals and lodging, and the lodging was just us sleeping in the same public university we held our training courses in,” she said. “The Sumy governor had a friend, a local businessman, and he demanded that this businessman be added to the contract as a ‘liaison’ between us and the city of Sumy. And as a liaison, he would get a percentage fee of the contract. Our lawyers tried to negotiate the businessman out of the contract, but the governor of Sumy wouldn’t budge. We ultimately just signed the contract so we could hold our trainings.”

In the two months she spent in Ukraine, Morris says she encountered theft and corruption more times than she could count. “The lead doctor at the military base in Sumy has ordered medical supplies from and for the military at different points in time, and he has had 15 trucks of supplies completely disappear,” she said. The military first aid kits she had intended to give to soldiers once they graduated her training program were stolen. She saw the same kits for sale at a local market days later.

“I got a call from a nurse at a military hospital in [the Ukrainian city of] Dnipro,” Morris recalled. “She said the president of the hospital had stolen all the pain medications to resell them, and that the wounded soldiers being treated there had no pain relief. She begged us to hand-deliver pain medications to her. She said she would hide them from the hospital president so that they’d reach the soldiers. But who can you trust? Was the hospital president really stealing the medications, or was she trying to con us into giving her pain medications for her to sell or use? Who knows. Everyone is lying.”

Donated protective military equipment and combat medical supplies have flooded Ukraine’s online marketplaces. Sellers are careful to hide their identities, often creating new vendor accounts for each sale and willing to fulfill orders exclusively by mail. “We have found armored helmets given as aid from the Americans for sale on websites,” Ivan said. “You know, inside the helmet, the class of protection and brand are written. We saw this brand before and realized the helmets were the ones given to us as aid. Some of us tried to contact the sellers to set up a meeting, so we could prove they were selling stolen aid, but they were suspicious and stopped responding to us.”

Ivan says he has heard about the theft of weapons donated from Western countries, but pointed out that several soldiers in his unit are sharing a single AK-74. “I wouldn’t know about how they’re stealing the weapons, because the weapons never reach the Ukrainian soldiers in the first place,” he said. “And if they were giving more than small missiles and rifles, if they were giving us what we actually need to fight Russia, they would be weapons too big to steal.”


A Ukrainian army vehicle on the road to Dnipro. Photo by Cory Popp.
“I don’t think they want us to win”: Ukrainians scoff at Western aid
Ivan is not optimistic about Ukraine’s chances to win the war. “There won’t be a Donbas left,” he said. “The Russians will destroy it, or they’ll control all of it, and then they’ll move on to the south. And now, as it is, I’d say 80% of the civilians who have stayed in Donbas support Russia and leak all of our location information to them.”

When asked if he thought the US and European countries truly want Ukraine to win the war, Ivan laughed. “No, I don’t think they want us to win,” he said. “The West could give us weapons to make us stronger than the Russians, but they don’t do this. We know Poland and the Baltic countries want us to win, 100%, but their support isn’t enough.”

“It is obvious that the US doesn’t want Ukraine to win the war,” said Andrey*, a Ukrainian journalist based in Mykolayiv. “They only want to make Russia weak. No one will win this war, but the countries the US is using like a playground will lose. And the corruption related to the war aid is shocking. The weapons are stolen, the humanitarian aid is stolen, and we have no idea where the billions sent to this country have gone.”

Andrey is especially appalled by the lack of services provided to internally displaced Ukrainians. “It really isn’t a mystery why everyone wants to go to Europe,” he said. “There’s a refugee center near Dnipro, for example, and displaced people are only allowed to stay there for three days. And it’s 45 or 50 people in one big, open room with one bathroom and a tiny kitchen. Horrible conditions. So after the three days, if they have no money, no clothes, nothing, they are kicked out and have no choice but to go back to their homes in dangerous areas. We must ask our government where all the aid money has gone, when our soldiers don’t have what they need, and our civilians don’t have safe places to stay.”

Foreign journalists cover up grim reality with triumphalist delusions
Before the war started, Andrey spent several years reporting on corruption and crooked politicians in Ukraine. After an investigation into a government official in Odessa resulted in death threats against his wife and young daughter, Andrey sent them to live with relatives in France. “Ukraine is a democracy, right? So the government won’t press on you in an official way. First, you get phone calls warning you to stop. Then, they offer you money to stop. And then, if you refuse to be bought, you should be prepared for an attack.

“Real journalism is dangerous here,” he continued. “You see, since the war started, we have these new star reporters, and every day, they write that ‘Putin is bad, the Russian soldiers behave very badly…today, the Ukrainian army killed 1,000 Russians and destroyed 500 Russian tanks.’ They get a million followers on Twitter because they lie, and this isn’t real reporting. But if you write about the corruption in the Armed Forces, and have real examples…you won’t be famous, and you’ll be in trouble.”

Andrey has been picking up extra work as a fixer, arranging interviews and translating for foreign journalists in Ukraine to cover the war. “I have worked with about a dozen journalists from different countries in Europe,” he said. “All of them have been shocked. They left Ukraine shocked. They said they could not believe the situation here. But this shock did not make it into any of their articles about the war. Their articles said that Ukraine is on the road to victory, which is not true.”


A billboard promoting the Azov Battalion in Kramatorsk. Photo by Cory Popp.
Ukrainian soldiers and volunteers confirm Ukraine’s Armed Forces endanger civilians
In July, we spent the night at a hotel in Kramatorsk and were concerned to see that neo-Nazi Azov battalion soldiers were among the hotel’s guests. On August 4th, Amnesty International published a study revealing that since the start of the war in February, Ukrainian forces have endangered civilians by establishing bases in schools and hospitals and operating weapons systems in civilian areas, which is a violation of international law.

Amnesty International now plans to “re-assess” its report, in response to a massive public outcry after its publication, but Ukrainian soldiers and foreign volunteers have confirmed that Ukrainian armed forces maintain a heavy presence in civilian areas. “Our bases were mostly built in Soviet times,” said Ivan. “So now, Russia knows our bases inside and out. It’s necessary to spread the soldiers and weapons out to other places.”

A former US serviceman who goes by the moniker “Benjamin Velcro” was a volunteer fighter for the International Legion of Territorial Defense of Ukraine, the Ukrainian Armed Forces’ official unit for foreign volunteers. He spent five months in various parts of Ukraine, and says that soldiers being stationed in civilian areas was a common occurrence.

“Whenever I hear that Russia bombed a school, I just kinda shrug,” the American foreign fighter said. “Because I garrisoned inside a school. That’s a fact. The school didn’t have kids in it, so it’s not like they were endangering children. So all it takes is for Ukraine to say, ‘Ah! They hit a school!’ And that cumulates into an easy media narrative on their part.”

Like Ivan, Velcro is also pessimistic about Ukraine’s chances to win the war. “Man, I want everything in the world for Ukraine to win this. I want Ukraine to get its pre-2014 borders back. But do I think that’s tenable? No. You can’t sustain a war by crowdfunding forever.”

*Several interview subjects requested to be quoted under assumed names to protect themselves from potential danger
 
Junaids said:
So much for all going well in Russia.

The head of Lukoil just “accidentally” fell to his death from a window. Or, as the Russian media is reporting, he died after a long illness.
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Another influential Russian dies in suspicious circumstances :13:

Meanwhile, the vaunted Kherson counter-offensive finally seems about to roll:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62738160

I'll believe it when I see it, but I dearly hope they succeed.
 
Startling statistic here: the indiscriminate Russian shelling of Mariupol reportedly killed 113,750 civilians.

Russian war crimes on an astronomical scale.
 
Junaids said:
Startling statistic here: the indiscriminate Russian shelling of Mariupol reportedly killed 113,750 civilians.

Russian war crimes on an astronomical scale.
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Is the source for this fiction by any chance the Kyiv Independent?
 
Robert said:
Meanwhile, the vaunted Kherson counter-offensive finally seems about to roll:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62738160

I'll believe it when I see it, but I dearly hope they succeed.
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You and the BBC are already behind the latest updates. I mentioned yesterday that initially Ukraine succeeded with one brigade but have been pushed back slightly. Two other brigades were under armed and suffered many losses.
 
Anyone seeing the info about the debacle near Energodar by the Ukrainians? Apparently more stupidity from the Mi6 in trying to send Ukrainians via water to either block the IAEA or to recapture the plant.
 
bones said:
You and the BBC are already behind the latest updates. I mentioned yesterday that initially Ukraine succeeded with one brigade but have been pushed back slightly. Two other brigades were under armed and suffered many losses.
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It was a human interest reportage piece from the front, as opposed to up-to-date reporting.
 
bones said:
Anyone seeing the info about the debacle near Energodar by the Ukrainians? Apparently more stupidity from the Mi6 in trying to send Ukrainians via water to either block the IAEA or to recapture the plant.
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Yeah had a good chuckle at it this morning. It's a fantastic fictionaly story even by Russian standards.
Not really surprising, it's been spun by that look Gonzalo Lira on twitter.

Can't wait for the pictures from the FSB... Might be as good as their latest suspect in the murder of that woman.... A man in a bush in a pirate hat

😂😂😂
 
cpleigh said:
Yeah had a good chuckle at it this morning. It's a fantastic fictionaly story even by Russian standards.
Not really surprising, it's been spun by that look Gonzalo Lira on twitter.

Can't wait for the pictures from the FSB... Might be as good as their latest suspect in the murder of that woman.... A man in a bush in a pirate hat

😂😂😂
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Given that Ukraine is getting more and more desperate to show they are capable of mounting offensives, I wouldn’t put it past them.

Remember this is the same army that keeps sending fodder to the frontline to be bombarded by artillery.

I also see the hope and optimism for this great Kherson counter offensive has now gone much quieter too.
 
The UN held a press conference on this topic about the failed Ukrainian attack on the power plant. I note there was no denial that the Ukrainians attacked. Which is a strong indication that the Ukrainians definitely tried to interfere somehow.
 
Two days ago there was talk about three brigades used for the counter offensive. Well we knew two of these brigades suffered horrific losses, but it’s only now we are seeing just how much. The 128th brigade from south west Ukraine was pretty much entirely destroyed. We are talking about more than 3000 losses in total, possibly 4000.

The reason the Ukrainians suffered so many losses is the same each time under equipped territorial defence units going up against massive artillery and mortar rounds.
 
bones said:
The UN held a press conference on this topic about the failed Ukrainian attack on the power plant. I note there was no denial that the Ukrainians attacked. Which is a strong indication that the Ukrainians definitely tried to interfere somehow.
Click to expand...

Again... you are seeing what you want to believe. The UN is trying to remain neutral.
 
bones said:
Given that Ukraine is getting more and more desperate to show they are capable of mounting offensives, I wouldn’t put it past them.

Remember this is the same army that keeps sending fodder to the frontline to be bombarded by artillery.

I also see the hope and optimism for this great Kherson counter offensive has now gone much quieter too.
Click to expand...

oh.... it really hasn't.... plenty of maps on Telegram... they look very good.

I see Putin has extended his 'deadline' for taking the Donbas... remember that? Taking the Donbas... they haven't even managed that!

I like how you believe a story about a failed MI6 and Ukrainian commando attack, all orchestrated by a man who won't be in a job in 3 days time... who won't even get involved in UK politics now.

All being spun by a Gov who recently killed a man who critized the war.
 
cpleigh said:
oh.... it really hasn't.... plenty of maps on Telegram... they look very good.
Click to expand...

I see that you continue to lie and push the western narrative. So I'm going to enjoy the next part.

Throughout this conflict, there have been a few maps that people use but generally the pro-Russian maps are by Rybar and the pro-Ukranian maps are by ISW or liveuamap. ISW is pretty high level and useless for those following on a daily basis.

Using liveuamap, which has some cool features such as marking distances and going back to specific dates, I have produced an exact side by side of the area around Kherson up until Snihurivka, but you can zoom out and go to the town on the Dnipro called Novovorontsova if you like, they show the same thing.

The Russians contrary to what you and your telegram channels say, are gaining ground. By my rough calculations the Russians between August 20th and Sept 2nd, approximately 2 weeks have gained between 150-200 sq miles.

I remind you, this includes this famous "Kherson counter offensive" and it is by a pro-Ukranian source.

Link to a side by side:

https://ibb.co/jGPV5Vt

Link to the site:

https://liveuamap.com/en/time/02.09.2022
 
There's a news blackout.

Anyone who claims to know who is advancing or retreating or getting wiped out around Kherson is a liar. The whole point of a news blackout is that the news is not in the public domain.
 
Junaids said:
There's a news blackout.

Anyone who claims to know who is advancing or retreating or getting wiped out around Kherson is a liar. The whole point of a news blackout is that the news is not in the public domain.
Click to expand...

If the friendly Beeb aren’t being told where UKR units are, no other source will be.
 
Junaids said:
There's a news blackout.

Anyone who claims to know who is advancing or retreating or getting wiped out around Kherson is a liar. The whole point of a news blackout is that the news is not in the public domain.
Click to expand...

The news blackout is because the Ukranians are being destroyed in huge numbers. The news blackout is because they don't want the MSM of the west to get an idea of how bad the situation is. Just in the last few hours the head of a small town in the Kherson region called Snihurivka stated that the "failed" counter offensive of the Ukranians resulted in a overflowing hospitals and morgues.

I'm pretty sure if the Ukranians were parked 5 miles outside of Kherson town centre there wouldn't be a blackout.

You can't hide things like the queues at the Odesa and Mikolaiv hospitals. You can't hide things like the destroyed tanks and armored vehicles in the middle of fields.

It's quite interesting how the Ukranians who have been pushing propaganda through from day 1 with nonse like the ghost of kiev and the martys or snake island have all of a sudden decided to have news blackouts.
 
Here is just a small example of the kind of artillery bombardment the Ukranians have to suffer. Kherson district is just flat terrain - a bit like the great American plains.

https://twitter.com/nft47/status/1565645485523836929

I'd like to understand from our resident experts here, how exactly Ukraine is going to mount a counter offensive when they are outmatched in terms of artillery by at least 10 to 1.
 
bones said:
Here is just a small example of the kind of artillery bombardment the Ukranians have to suffer. Kherson district is just flat terrain - a bit like the great American plains.

https://twitter.com/nft47/status/1565645485523836929

I'd like to understand from our resident experts here, how exactly Ukraine is going to mount a counter offensive when they are outmatched in terms of artillery by at least 10 to 1.
Click to expand...

Did you read the replies?

It seems the clip you linked was stolen from an account that claims its Ukranians attacking Russians.

Nobody knows... there is a media blackout.

And you've been told this numerous times... the US lease lend scheme has only just come into affect, from the 1st September. Probably why Ukraine has waited. That artillery advantage you keep bragging about is about to get wiped out
 
bones said:
The news blackout is because the Ukranians are being destroyed in huge numbers. The news blackout is because they don't want the MSM of the west to get an idea of how bad the situation is. Just in the last few hours the head of a small town in the Kherson region called Snihurivka stated that the "failed" counter offensive of the Ukranians resulted in a overflowing hospitals and morgues.

I'm pretty sure if the Ukranians were parked 5 miles outside of Kherson town centre there wouldn't be a blackout.

You can't hide things like the queues at the Odesa and Mikolaiv hospitals. You can't hide things like the destroyed tanks and armored vehicles in the middle of fields.

It's quite interesting how the Ukranians who have been pushing propaganda through from day 1 with nonse like the ghost of kiev and the martys or snake island have all of a sudden decided to have news blackouts.
Click to expand...

MSM are already preparing for excuses. Sky News UK use this chap reguarly, you can see by his face he knows the truth but must lie. He claims the village captured is huge as there is a route down for Ukrainians. He also claims they want to surround the Russians, somehow use invisible powers to get behind them in their strongholds :)))

 
KingKhanWC said:
MSM are already preparing for excuses. Sky News UK use this chap reguarly, you can see by his face he knows the truth but must lie. He claims the village captured is huge as there is a route down for Ukrainians. He also claims they want to surround the Russians, somehow use invisible powers to get behind them in their strongholds :)))

Click to expand...

Reaching Rock bottom here aren't you?.....

They don't need to get behind them... The dniepro river is behind them, with all bridges crossing it destroyed or out of service. If Ukraine get to the river... That's 25k Russians trapped
 
cpleigh said:
Reaching Rock bottom here aren't you?.....

They don't need to get behind them... The dniepro river is behind them, with all bridges crossing it destroyed or out of service. If Ukraine get to the river... That's 25k Russians trapped
Click to expand...

The idea of a trap is something has to be behind, to the sides and in front. Right now there is no trap and not even close to one.

I showed you the maps this morning for the Kherson region with sources and you deliberately chose to ignore them. Please review them as they are from a pro Ukraine site and it is showing the Ukrainians are actually going backwards.
 
I would advise to ignore the NATO/MSM fanatics and extremists. Not a word on the Western economy demise, let alone how the sanctions on Russia have failed.

If there's anyone scraping the bottom of the barrel, its the MSM and NATO internet troll soilders. Their kind are done.
 
cpleigh said:
Reaching Rock bottom here aren't you?.....

They don't need to get behind them... The dniepro river is behind them, with all bridges crossing it destroyed or out of service. If Ukraine get to the river... That's 25k Russians trapped
Click to expand...

No it seems you have as its been months now after you declared victory for Ukraine.

Tell that to your British expert. Ukrainians cant even re-capture any significant land but some dream of them surrounding or making the Russians withdraw. lol.

But please lets have another prediction for the archives, when will Kherson be taken by Azov boys?
 
bones said:
The idea of a trap is something has to be behind, to the sides and in front. Right now there is no trap and not even close to one.

I showed you the maps this morning for the Kherson region with sources and you deliberately chose to ignore them. Please review them as they are from a pro Ukraine site and it is showing the Ukrainians are actually going backwards.
Click to expand...

Ha ha ha. All your sources are Kremlin based. absolute garbage... I've looked at them... And dismissed them.

The end is nigh for the Kremlin bots. Good to see the G7 have price capped Russian oil. IE... We don't need your oil anymore...

Russia is done. Stick a fork in it. It's in an arms race it can't win... Again
 
Technics 1210 said:
:))) A price cap on Russian oil is not the same as saying no to Russian oil!

Economics 101

:)))
Click to expand...

He is clueless, utterly clueless about all aspects of this conflict. I gave him a pro Ukrainian source and because he doesn’t like the message he claims it’s propaganda.

As for the oil price cap the Russians said any price cap would result in not selling it to Europe, they have customers in the south and east,
 
bones said:
He is clueless, utterly clueless about all aspects of this conflict. I gave him a pro Ukrainian source and because he doesn’t like the message he claims it’s propaganda.

As for the oil price cap the Russians said any price cap would result in not selling it to Europe, they have customers in the south and east,
Click to expand...

Who won't pay anywhere near as much and don't have the pipe infrastructure to transport it in the quantities needed
 
For me the fact the 128th got wiped out is telling. They were some of Ukraine best troops. If this offensive fails ukrops are going to be in big big trouble.
 
the Great Khan said:
For me the fact the 128th got wiped out is telling. They were some of Ukraine best troops. If this offensive fails ukrops are going to be in big big trouble.
Click to expand...

Some of the "Kremlin propagandists" as they like to label the truth sayers, have already said it's a catastrophic failure and primarily because of the terrain. The Kherson/Mikolaiv region is just vast fields with very little cover so easy pickings for air support and artillery.

According to Douglas MacGregor it's already failed, the Ukranians are close to breaking point here. The examples these guys gave here is, it's like a team chasing 300 that's 8 down in the 20th over. You can try and paint a positive picture all you like but the result is inevitable - so why send more men to their death?
 
bones said:
Some of the "Kremlin propagandists" as they like to label the truth sayers, have already said it's a catastrophic failure and primarily because of the terrain. The Kherson/Mikolaiv region is just vast fields with very little cover so easy pickings for air support and artillery.

According to Douglas MacGregor it's already failed, the Ukranians are close to breaking point here. The examples these guys gave here is, it's like a team chasing 300 that's 8 down in the 20th over. You can try and paint a positive picture all you like but the result is inevitable - so why send more men to their death?
Click to expand...

Zelensky is a disgrace to his nation..they should be in the west fortifying and rebuilding their strategic forces like their airforce and air defence units..they should also be breaking up units into smaller groups harassing and moving quickly in the east..don't stand and fight.. fight move fight move..

Why aren't the west rebuilding their airforce for them? Why..yesbits hard to retrain pilots I get it but they need to do something there..also its criminal that Ukraine was left for years with a kindergarten airforce..disgraceful..
 
bones said:
He is clueless, utterly clueless about all aspects of this conflict. I gave him a pro Ukrainian source and because he doesn’t like the message he claims it’s propaganda.

As for the oil price cap the Russians said any price cap would result in not selling it to Europe, they have customers in the south and east,
Click to expand...

Russia has responded by shutting down Nord pipeline, so says a lot about Russia selling Oil/Gas to Europe, because as you say, Russia is selling to the South and East. Simply, its Russia that doesn't need Europe.

Moreover, Germany and Italy, members of the G7, have stated there will be no embargo on Russian Oil/Gas until mid December, which has nothing to do with the price cap. India and China have refused to sign up to the G7 price cap.

BRICS+ is here!
 
Logistical shortfalls could force Kiev and NATO to change strategy, Mark T. Kimmitt warns in an op-ed for the WSJ

Sustaining the conflict in Ukraine is becoming increasingly difficult for NATO, so Kiev must think about negotiating with Moscow, retired US Army brigadier general Mark T. Kimmitt has said in an opinion piece for the Wall Street Journal.

Washington’s latest military aid package to Kiev last month included “older and less advanced” systems, which “may indicate that battlefield consumption rates have outpaced production to a point where excess inventories provided to Ukraine are nearly exhausted,” Kimmitt pointed out in his article on Thursday.

Dealing with “dwindling stocks of leading-edge weapon systems” in NATO countries would likely mean a prolonged conflict between Ukraine and Russia. Such a scenario could result in “more pressure from supporting nations, sustained inflation, less heating gas, and falling popular support” in the West, he wrote.

----------------

USA waking up to the lost cause!
 
Absolutely fascinating thread retweeted by Eliot Higgins today.

To sum up:

1. Russia and Ukraine both have outdated weapons. The Russians have a numerical advantage, but the Ukrainians have small amounts of more modern weaponry from the west.

2. The Ukrainians floated for weeks a counteroffensive around Kherson. Why?

3. The Ukrainians know that where the Russians failed right from the start was logistics. Their supply chains are rubbish, and they are not fixable.

4. The public floating of a Kherson offensive by Ukraine was almost certainly a bid to suck in more Russian troops and weapons from the rest of Ukraine to defend Kherson.

5. This is because the Ukrainans have a small number of HIMARS and of HARM missiles for neutralising Russian air defences.

6. That tactic obviously worked, because we have seen that with Russian air defences disabled, the Ukrainians have destroyed every bridge into Kherson.

7. The only way that Ukraine could prevail by having a small amount of superior technology was by sucking the Russians into the area where they could deploy it.

8. Russia now has large numbers of troops and weapons stranded on the west side of the Dniepr River, with no bridges by which they can be resupplied.

9. Yet again, like outside Kyiv in March, the Russians are left with their logistic chain broken, and are reduced to ferrying in tiny amounts of supplies and men by boat across the river.

10. This is leaving the Russians exposed - on Saturday at Kherson they reportedly lost 450 men, 15 tanks and 27 APCs.

11. Those losses are not sustainable. At Kyiv and Kharkiv the Russians simply vanished, by a mixture of withdrawal and desertion, but there is no way out of Kherson's west bank.

12. The question now becomes whether this level of attrition continues, in which case the Russian forces in Kherson will collapse and surrender, or whether Putin responds to defeat by using tactical nuclear weapons, which would be an act of personal and national suicide.
 
Last edited:
[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] he would deploy thermobaric weapons before tax-nukes. I am surprised that he has not, but I guess that would mean the fiction of his “special military operation” would be exposed.
 
West should look at bigger picture and stop arming the Ukrainians.

This is prolonging the war and causing more deaths/miseries.

This war is also affecting the whole world (food shortages and energy crisis).
 
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