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Russia invades Ukraine

junaids and cpleigh tell us Ukraine will win this war with the endless supply of weapons. There's a bit of a headache for you guys, there's no more weapons to send to Ukraine. This is coming from the mouth of Arestovich who is spokesperson for the Ukranian government. So if Ukraine aren't going to get anymore weapons and their own are largely destroyed, what will they use?

https://twitter.com/ILRUSSO1/status/1560588921959919616?s=20&t=35HANc9kzQZyFDMb_QXQug

Take note junaids and cpleigh, this is me making a comment and providing a source.
 
Remember when in March all those sanctions were placed on Russia? Well seems like they haven't made any impact. Russia continue conflict, Europe is totally lost in terms of energy supply and the Ruble is trading at on average 60 to the dollar.

https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=RUB

According to our resident experts here, cpleigh and junaids, the Russians are about to lose on every front including economic.
 
Anyone seen the video of the Russians storing ammo and military gear at the Nuclear plant? totally idiotic.

Also told Russians not to go to work today there, and moving people away from the site.
They also rejected a UN proposal to secure it yesterday..

Ukrainians have admitted to targeting nuclear plants, yet you are more concerned with ammo which is needed to protect the plant?

Do you support Ukraine attacking nuclear plants? Yes or No?
 
Why have 25,000 Jews left Moscow and emigrated from Russia since the war began?
 
What a silly question aimed at me.

I want your family Mr Leigh and the families of other Brits on here to live in a safe , secure and prosperous future.

Its blind supporters of Nato who are the ones wishing for a nuclear war.

You cannot defeat Russia, its a huge nation with huge natural resources, large army, the most advanced missiles in the world and allied with the likes of China.

Any sane people would make peace with such a power, not try to destroy in cowardly fashion relying on the blood of Ukrainians.

NATO are not in this war. Russia was defeated in Afghanistan... like it will be here. Ukraine is fighting for its existence..
 
junaids and cpleigh tell us Ukraine will win this war with the endless supply of weapons. There's a bit of a headache for you guys, there's no more weapons to send to Ukraine. This is coming from the mouth of Arestovich who is spokesperson for the Ukranian government. So if Ukraine aren't going to get anymore weapons and their own are largely destroyed, what will they use?

https://twitter.com/ILRUSSO1/status/1560588921959919616?s=20&t=35HANc9kzQZyFDMb_QXQug

Take note junaids and cpleigh, this is me making a comment and providing a source.

You keep ignoring the fact the lend to lease starts next month. He wants MORE weapons. How can you not see that??
 
NATO are not in this war. Russia was defeated in Afghanistan... like it will be here. Ukraine is fighting for its existence..

US/UK/Nato , in all 40+ nations were defeated by Afghanistan.

Please study a bit of history, Russia were not in Afghanistan, it was the Soviet Union, they are communists, while Russia today is Orthodox Christian.

Nato had planned this proxy war for years, they supply the weapons, they help with intelligence and finance. Of course they dont have the courage to send in Dads army but very much involved.

You really believe Russia can be defeated? lol
 
You are enjoying people dying esp Ukrainians in large numbers? You want Ukrainians to fight until the last blood drop because you're in no hurry?

What is very apt is your attitude is the attitude of the Americans, some Europeans, happy for others to die because you dont like Russia.

If you really feel this way, you should jump to the call of Zelinskly to help in fighting. When are you off?

Were you enjoying Ukrranians dying before?
 
US/UK/Nato , in all 40+ nations were defeated by Afghanistan.

Please study a bit of history, Russia were not in Afghanistan, it was the Soviet Union, they are communists, while Russia today is Orthodox Christian.

Nato had planned this proxy war for years, they supply the weapons, they help with intelligence and finance. Of course they dont have the courage to send in Dads army but very much involved.

You really believe Russia can be defeated? lol

Oh... thats a new one... The Soviet Union weren't Russia because they didn't believe in God?

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Russia will be defeated... Russia will break up.
 
Oh... thats a new one... The Soviet Union weren't Russia because they didn't believe in God?

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Russia will be defeated... Russia will break up.

Different ideologies. Im not here to educate you on a daily basis.

If you're going to make a claim be accurate.

Please go into detail, im happy with an essay on how and when Russia will be defeated and break up. Ask Biden for tips. :68:
 
Different ideologies. Im not here to educate you on a daily basis.

If you're going to make a claim be accurate.

Please go into detail, im happy with an essay on how and when Russia will be defeated and break up. Ask Biden for tips. :68:

Don't need to. You've Just made.. probably the worst post i've ever seen. Russia were defeated in afghanistan.... that didn't count.

Poor from you. Russia will be defeated because theyve got themselves into an arms race AGAIN that they cant win.
 
Oh... thats a new one... The Soviet Union weren't Russia because they didn't believe in God?

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Russia will be defeated... Russia will break up.

Obviously Russia was 90% of CCCP.
 
Don't need to. You've Just made.. probably the worst post i've ever seen. Russia were defeated in afghanistan.... that didn't count.

Poor from you. Russia will be defeated because theyve got themselves into an arms race AGAIN that they cant win.

What Arms race? lol. Please expand as this is breaking news.

No history book will show Russia invaded Afghanistan, the Soviets were communists, is Russia communist today?

What about Russian Nazis?

There is no official Russian Nazi battalion, there are many in Ukraine.
 
It doesn't make sense, NATO apologists keep ranting on about how Russia can be defeated so it begs the question, what is NATO waiting for?
 
What Arms race? lol. Please expand as this is breaking news.

No history book will show Russia invaded Afghanistan, the Soviets were communists, is Russia communist today?



There is no official Russian Nazi battalion, there are many in Ukraine.

They are in another arms race with the USA. The yanks will pump Ukraine with arms after arms..

Russia can't compete
 
They are in another arms race with the USA. The yanks will pump Ukraine with arms after arms..

Russia can't compete


So your future is , USA and Europe will keep sending arms to Ukraine, propping up their military industrial complex until the last Ukrainian blood is shed and this will defeat and break up Ukraine. In the meantime its ok for Ukrainians. Also in the meantime elderly, vulnerable, poor will freeze and go hungry because they agree with your strategy.

How long do you expect this to take? as a few pages ago, you wrote Russia has already lost?
 
It's been explained to you a million times on here. NATO is not at war with Russia

No, what you have said that going toe to toe with Russia would mean worldwide destruction, yet time and time again you make this claim NATO can defeat Russia.

Russia cannot compete - your words.

And wake up, NATO is at war with Russia, it's a proxy war.

NATO should be named to the Nando alliance, chickens.

Russia is winning the economic war for sure, and then some.
 
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So your future is , USA and Europe will keep sending arms to Ukraine, propping up their military industrial complex until the last Ukrainian blood is shed and this will defeat and break up Ukraine. In the meantime its ok for Ukrainians. Also in the meantime elderly, vulnerable, poor will freeze and go hungry because they agree with your strategy.

How long do you expect this to take? as a few pages ago, you wrote Russia has already lost?

The MSM feed must be slow.

The elderly, vulnerable, and poor have the West and their economic sanction to blame. Then again, this wouldn't be the first time the West sacrificed millions of their own for the Zionist cause.
 
So your future is , USA and Europe will keep sending arms to Ukraine, propping up their military industrial complex until the last Ukrainian blood is shed and this will defeat and break up Ukraine. In the meantime its ok for Ukrainians. Also in the meantime elderly, vulnerable, poor will freeze and go hungry because they agree with your strategy.

How long do you expect this to take? as a few pages ago, you wrote Russia has already lost?

Russia lost as soon as they didn't take Kyiv in 72 hours.

And you think all those people would be better off under russian rule?
 
No, what you have said that going toe to toe with Russia would mean worldwide destruction, yet time and time again you make this claim NATO can defeat Russia.

Russia cannot compete - your words.

And wake up, NATO is at war with Russia, it's a proxy war.

NATO should be named to the Nando alliance, chickens.

Russia is winning the economic war for sure, and then some.

NATO would pummel Russia in a conventional war. You already know that.

Russia is a nuclear power, hence nobody is attacking it. You already know that.

Russia's economy is on the verge of collapse. Again... you have been told that.

You continue to live in a fantasy world, where you believe all Russia needs is Fossil fuels.
 
NATO would pummel Russia in a conventional war. You already know that.

Russia is a nuclear power, hence nobody is attacking it. You already know that.

Russia's economy is on the verge of collapse. Again... you have been told that.

You continue to live in a fantasy world, where you believe all Russia needs is Fossil fuels.

Contradictions and delusion.

Your European cousins need energy, they are crying, and what were they doing buying from Russia in the first place?

NATO the bully and its apologists exposed.

NATO would pummel Russia, but NATO would not attack Russia. Your words again Ha ha ha.
 
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Contradictions and delusion.

Your European cousins need energy, they are crying, and what were they doing buying from Russia in the first place?

NATO the bully and its apologists exposed.

NATO would pummel Russia, but NATO would not attack Russia. Your words again Ha ha ha.

You are becoming a parody. In fact, i'm not sure what you are.
 
Russia lost as soon as they didn't take Kyiv in 72 hours.

And you think all those people would be better off under russian rule?

Make up your mind :)))

Russia will lose , break up...now Russia has lost.

We'd all be better off esp old people if the UK were to have good relations with Russia, buy cheap energy and other goods.

You are very confused.
 
You are becoming a parody. In fact, i'm not sure what you are.

You are a parody, of MSM. You make many claims, no evidence.

It’s the weekend now, MSM will be quiet, so I expect the usual MSM manual feed back in this thread next week.

Until then, make you mind up on NATO, and keeping dreaming NATO will pummel Russia; and don’t forget to switch off the lights, energy costs are at an all time high thanks to western sanctions. :)))
 
Legendary historic speech by Putin!

This man is very smart, says the truth as it is. Biden wouldn't last 5 min debating him.

MUST WATCH...

5:50 THE INTERVIEW STARTS.

 
I have argued with bones in this thread myself many times, who's posts I consider very biased sometimes, however Junaid absolutely takes the cake.

Sounds like petulant child instead of a grown up with no posts grounded in reality. If it was upto him our planet would be in the middle of a nuclear winter right now. The idiotic genocide he is proposing in the previous pages where he'd advocate the West striking Russia even if it would lead to war says more about him than the people he's arguing with.

Another to be blocked

How so?

Russia launched an unprovoked attack on Ukraine and has brutalised its civilians and stolen its territory.

And it is essentially nuclear blackmail: give us what we want or we might blow up the world.

I say No.

Russia has done this to Georgia, Moldova and now Ukraine, just like Hitler did with Austria, Czechoslovakia and finally Poland.

I say No.

This time it has to be stopped. This time Putin has gone too far - and he needs to lose the territory he has stolen. And he needs to be disarmed.
 
Precisely. Does he ever provide corroborated sources? Nope never. he believes anything from MSM.

You are a parody, of MSM. You make many claims, no evidence.

It’s the weekend now, MSM will be quiet, so I expect the usual MSM manual feed back in this thread next week.

Until then, make you mind up on NATO, and keeping dreaming NATO will pummel Russia; and don’t forget to switch off the lights, energy costs are at an all time high thanks to western sanctions. :)))
As soon as anyone uses the term “MSM” they discredit themselves as having been brainwashed by Russian troll farms.

And yes, that includes the Trump lunatic fringe of America’s far-right.

Anyone who has ever seen the Ofcom Impartiality rules knows that by law not just the BBC, ITV and Channel 4, but even Rupert Murdoch’s Sky News UK are absolutely neutral.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/tv-radio-a...t-code/section-five-due-impartiality-accuracy

So anyone accusing British broadcasters of editorial bias is either being malicious (politicians seeking bias towards their own party) or is a fool or is a Russian troll.
 
Can you explain to the rest of us, how exactly the Ukranians are going to capture/surround/conquer Crimea? They haven't been able to even start the counter offensive in Kherson.

Or should we expect some paratrooper flying in? Or perhaps they will perform an amphibious assault?

Please explain.
The same way the USSR relieved the siege of Stalingrad.

Destroy the Kerch bridge and the three northern roads in and out of Crimea. Then you don’t need to send in the army - you just pick the starving Russians off until they surrender.

That’s the risk when you invade and steal someone else’s land. If you can’t secure your supply lines you are a sitting duck.

And Ukraine haven’t even received A-10 Warthogs yet. Once they do, the Russians are going to suffer the same Turkey Shoot that the Americans imposed upon the retreating Iraqi invaders in 1991.

I actually feel almost as sorry for the hapless Russian invaders as I do for the Ukrainian citizens that they terrorise.
 
As soon as anyone uses the term “MSM” they discredit themselves as having been brainwashed by Russian troll farms.

And yes, that includes the Trump lunatic fringe of America’s far-right.

Anyone who has ever seen the Ofcom Impartiality rules knows that by law not just the BBC, ITV and Channel 4, but even Rupert Murdoch’s Sky News UK are absolutely neutral.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/tv-radio-a...t-code/section-five-due-impartiality-accuracy

So anyone accusing British broadcasters of editorial bias is either being malicious (politicians seeking bias towards their own party) or is a fool or is a Russian troll.

Do if the British broadcasters are supposed to be impartial by law why are they not sending journalists to the safe areas in on as and reporting there?

Impartiality my a**.
 
As soon as anyone uses the term “MSM” they discredit themselves as having been brainwashed by Russian troll farms.

And yes, that includes the Trump lunatic fringe of America’s far-right.

Anyone who has ever seen the Ofcom Impartiality rules knows that by law not just the BBC, ITV and Channel 4, but even Rupert Murdoch’s Sky News UK are absolutely neutral.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/tv-radio-a...t-code/section-five-due-impartiality-accuracy

So anyone accusing British broadcasters of editorial bias is either being malicious (politicians seeking bias towards their own party) or is a fool or is a Russian troll.

Agreed, broadly, though I refer you to your own point about the Beeb not reporting on Cuba’s involvement in the Bush War.

Beeb is excellent but vulnerable to pressure from the government of the day. C4 News is excellent, which is why the Tories are removing its corporation status and selling it off to their donors.

There are people here who are so dogmatic in their beliefs that posting to them is a waste of energy. They reject any evidence or argument that does not fit down their narrow “reality tunnel”. I suggest that you disengage.
 
The same way the USSR relieved the siege of Stalingrad.

Destroy the Kerch bridge and the three northern roads in and out of Crimea. Then you don’t need to send in the army - you just pick the starving Russians off until they surrender.

That’s the risk when you invade and steal someone else’s land. If you can’t secure your supply lines you are a sitting duck.

And Ukraine haven’t even received A-10 Warthogs yet. Once they do, the Russians are going to suffer the same Turkey Shoot that the Americans imposed upon the retreating Iraqi invaders in 1991.

I actually feel almost as sorry for the hapless Russian invaders as I do for the Ukrainian citizens that they terrorise.

First the javelin were supposed to end the war, then the ceasers, then the m177s, then the himars and now the a-10s. After they fail with the a-10s what next? F16s? After they fail then perhaps f22s?

Do you know how difficult it is to destroy any bridge? You would need a huge missile, we're taking 2 or 3 ton payloads. These bridges are built to withstand tsunamis and earthquake. Mlrs and other grad systems can't reach that far or do any structural damage. How are Ukraine going to drop such a big bomb on the bridge? Their airforce is non-existent and they don't have launch systems capable of travelling that far before being taken out by anti air.

Like everything else you type you do no research and just blabber rubbish.
 
Russia has no quality drones both surveillance and attack.

It has no electronic warfare or comms aircraft that work

It doesn't have the intelligence satellites like usa has

It's aircraft can't fire precision missiles that now is evident

And their air defence Sam's are all paper tigers because we have seen countless times ukraine airforce still flying and using drones and kamikaze standoff munitions and the russians don't even know what's happening
 
The same way the USSR relieved the siege of Stalingrad.

Destroy the Kerch bridge and the three northern roads in and out of Crimea. Then you don’t need to send in the army - you just pick the starving Russians off until they surrender.

That’s the risk when you invade and steal someone else’s land. If you can’t secure your supply lines you are a sitting duck.

And Ukraine haven’t even received A-10 Warthogs yet. Once they do, the Russians are going to suffer the same Turkey Shoot that the Americans imposed upon the retreating Iraqi invaders in 1991.

I actually feel almost as sorry for the hapless Russian invaders as I do for the Ukrainian citizens that they terrorise.

Interesting idea, though I am not sure that Ukraine wants A-10. It would be a more capable replacement for their Su-25, but a bit slow and USAF phased it out as vulnerable to modern SAMs.

They would prefer the more versatile F-16:

https://www.airforcemag.com/ukraine-says-it-needs-fast-and-versatile-aircraft-not-the-a-10/

Looks like Poland won’t be sending her old MiGs in the presumptive F-16 backfill deal either now.
 
Agreed, broadly, though I refer you to your own point about the Beeb not reporting on Cuba’s involvement in the Bush War.

Beeb is excellent but vulnerable to pressure from the government of the day. C4 News is excellent, which is why the Tories are removing its corporation status and selling it off to their donors.

There are people here who are so dogmatic in their beliefs that posting to them is a waste of energy. They reject any evidence or argument that does not fit down their narrow “reality tunnel”. I suggest that you disengage.

Please send me a single report by the BBC or C4 that is by a journalist who has travelled to the safe areas of Donbas. Or perhaps any who have been to mariupol. These so called impartial sources have been reporting the Ukrainian story from the outset without a trace of unbias.

Right now there is a recession and energy crisis across Europe but these media sources are more concerned about a pretty meaningless tory leadership race that will be decided in September.

Thev tell us what they want us to hear not what we need to hear.
 
The Pakistan military forum and Indian one have very long threads talking about all aspects of the military. If junaids, mszkhan or cpleigh said the same things there as they do here. They would be laughed off the site. Those guys have more knowledge on military history, weapons and strategy than the members here by a long long way. That's why I will go there to see what they say.

Every single one of them says the same thing Russia are winning and will win. The Russians have no supply issues the Ukrainians have a huge issue with trained manpower.

It takes months to train pilots with new planes, it takes months to train tank and artillery support teams on new equipment. It takes months to train infantry. Not just to train on how to use weapons but how to repair and maintain. These are the things those guys talks out but never the things junaids or cpleigh talk about.

The Russians also have problems big problems, more to do with sabotage and not mobilising which means it will take longer to achieve the end goal. The end goal is inevitable.
 
First the javelin were supposed to end the war, then the ceasers, then the m177s, then the himars and now the a-10s. After they fail with the a-10s what next? F16s? After they fail then perhaps f22s?

Do you know how difficult it is to destroy any bridge? You would need a huge missile, we're taking 2 or 3 ton payloads. These bridges are built to withstand tsunamis and earthquake. Mlrs and other grad systems can't reach that far or do any structural damage. How are Ukraine going to drop such a big bomb on the bridge? Their airforce is non-existent and they don't have launch systems capable of travelling that far before being taken out by anti air.

Like everything else you type you do no research and just blabber rubbish.

No tsunamis in the Med and Black Sea. Earthquakes are vibrating forces, the bridge just has to be able to bend a bit, and concrete and rebar is quite flexible.

Destroying bridges is straightforward for modern precision artillery or air drop weapons. Things have moved on since WW2 when you had to get lucky with a huge iron bomb. The difficulty would be to get something within weapon range.
 
Please send me a single report by the BBC or C4 that is by a journalist who has travelled to the safe areas of Donbas. Or perhaps any who have been to mariupol. These so called impartial sources have been reporting the Ukrainian story from the outset without a trace of unbias.

I don’t think those places are safe for journalists who are not Russian clients.

Remember that Russia is a dictatorship. They have no freedom of the press like in the West. They are quite happy to murder hundreds of their own dissenting journalists, so any Westerner would be in danger.
 
No tsunamis in the Med and Black Sea. Earthquakes are vibrating forces, the bridge just has to be able to bend a bit, and concrete and rebar is quite flexible.

Destroying bridges is straightforward for modern precision artillery or air drop weapons. Things have moved on since WW2 when you had to get lucky with a huge iron bomb. The difficulty would be to get something within weapon range.

The SBS could mine it from speedboats.
 
The Pakistan military forum and Indian one have very long threads talking about all aspects of the military. If junaids, mszkhan or cpleigh said the same things there as they do here. They would be laughed off the site. Those guys have more knowledge on military history, weapons and strategy than the members here by a long long way. That's why I will go there to see what they say.

Every single one of them says the same thing Russia are winning and will win. The Russians have no supply issues the Ukrainians have a huge issue with trained manpower.

It takes months to train pilots with new planes, it takes months to train tank and artillery support teams on new equipment. It takes months to train infantry. Not just to train on how to use weapons but how to repair and maintain. These are the things those guys talks out but never the things junaids or cpleigh talk about.

The Russians also have problems big problems, more to do with sabotage and not mobilising which means it will take longer to achieve the end goal. The end goal is inevitable.
There is no such thing as a Pakistani military expert. 1971 proved that.

Granted, they excel at the same things that the Russian Army excels at, but a shared hobby of raping civilians hardly makes you a military expert. And it doesn’t tell you what the outcome in Ukraine is going to be.

So no offence, but I’d sooner take the opinions of Mickey Mouse or Porky Pig as a military expert than a Pakistani General, Armchair or otherwise.
 
MSM only reports what suits their agenda, this is a proven fact.

Show me an article from the BBC that says Western sanctions on Russia are not working.

Above that, every single view from NATO apologists in this thread is lifted from a MSM feed. When will these people learn to use their own brain? We're not interested on MSM feeds, we can read them, post your own thought, if you have the ability.
 
There is no such thing as a Pakistani military expert. 1971 proved that.

Granted, they excel at the same things that the Russian Army excels at, but a shared hobby of raping civilians hardly makes you a military expert. And it doesn’t tell you what the outcome in Ukraine is going to be.

So no offence, but I’d sooner take the opinions of Mickey Mouse or Porky Pig as a military expert than a Pakistani General, Armchair or otherwise.

I said members of the forums not military leadership. This is a cricket forum, doesn't mean Imran Khan, Ricky Ponting and Virat Kohli post here does it?

You didn't address the point about training the Ukranians on all this new equipment. How long do you think it takes to train a pilot used to flying MIG-29s on a F16 or some other American plane? How long do you think it would take for mechanized brigade office used to Smerch systems with the Himars? This is not an overnight job if that's what you thought.

According to former NATO commander Jacques Baud, to train infantry to an absolutely minimum level you need 3 months, but a full course takes 6 months. The Ukranians are grabbing civilians, given them 1 weeks training if they're lucky and sending to the frontline - is this the force you expect to defeat an any with trained soldiers? He also talked about the "game-changing" HIMARS, to use them effectively the entire battery which consistent of 8-10 HIMARS, would train together for 12 months. The HIMARS come with several support vehicles for supply, repair, comms, surveillance etc. So the USA have sent Ukraine all but 2 batteries worth of HIMARs and according to the Russians 6 have been destroyed so far.

Then there's the fighter jets, this is the part he admitted he didn't know as much about cause but his commanding officer colleages in the NATO air force informed him some pilots only trained to fight one jet because flying soviet jets was a different thing altogether. If you compare them it's night and day, it's like having to train the pilot again from scratch. Not only to train them, but during wartime?

You guys are utterly clueless and discussing every aspect of this conflict is like discussing with a child who doesn't think about anything beyond a eye capturing headline.
 
Also, Liberals should top bleating on about free journalism in the West, when these same liberals support the extradition of a journalist who exposed the truth - Juilan Assange.

Pro NATO/Liberals are the biggest hypocrites, they relentlessly force their proposterous ideology in public yet in private have completely different standards, fascism.

This is what MSM does to you. It brainwashes your mind.
 
No tsunamis in the Med and Black Sea. Earthquakes are vibrating forces, the bridge just has to be able to bend a bit, and concrete and rebar is quite flexible.

Destroying bridges is straightforward for modern precision artillery or air drop weapons. Things have moved on since WW2 when you had to get lucky with a huge iron bomb. The difficulty would be to get something within weapon range.

Oh ***. Just because there are no Tsunamis or Earthquakes it doesn't mean they won't build to counter them. The Kerch bridge is an extremely important bridge, do you think they didn't ensure they built a modern, robust and durable structure?

Bridge surfaces are very easy to damage, even with homemade weapons. But bridge structures require an enormous payload to destroy. The question is how would the Ukranians get something so big to hit it? It is probably the single most well protected target in Crimea. It is possible of course, but the only feasable way I see is somehow launching several missiles and hoping 1 or 2 slip through.

That is by the way how the Russians have been often launching their cruise missiles, launch many and hope some slip through. During the early weeks, the Russians attacked a foreigh fighter base to the west of Ukraine, the reports were that more than 20 were fired and 9 landed.
 
The goal of sanctions is to punish the Russian government, not regular people, Portugal says

Cyprus and Portugal are refusing to back a proposal by several other EU nations to ban Russian tourists, as part of anti-Moscow sanctions over the Ukraine conflict.

“Portugal believes that the fundamental objective of the sanctions is to punish the Russian war machine and not the Russian people,” the Portuguese Foreign Ministry said in a statement to news website ECO on Friday.

Kornelios Korneliou, General Secretary of the Cyprus Foreign Ministry, said his country also opposes a blanket ban on Russian travelers. “It would be a decision in the wrong direction,” Konreliou told Politico magazine on Friday. “We believe in people-to-people contacts.”

Cyprus has a sizable population of Russian-speakers, around 50,000 of whom live in the southern city of Limassol, according to Politico.

------------

EU is crumbling. This failed political and economical union cannot agree unilaterally on Russia.
 
Bones this war would be over in the conventional sense of toe to toe war if russia had those capabilities I listed.

Russia would have occupied most of Ukraine and ukranians would have been forced into group of guerilla fighters like what happened in Iraq and in the countryside like afghanistan where they would rely on bomb attacks, ieds , ambushes and if they had religious convictions suicide and fidayeen operations
Russian then would go into counter terrorism mode and use gunships , airships with 360 surveillance , drones and special forces conducting operations just like usa did in Iraq and Afghanistan.

We hold russia in the same candlelight as usa since it supposed to be a superpower and military giant.

None of that has happened

But these wars cost billions and russia is squandering billions losing lodes of hardware and troops and ukranians are standing their ground like a conventional army and going toe to toe.

When taliban tried the same under mullah dadullah in helmand kandahar usaf wiped them out in the thousands.
 
[MENTION=154102]mazkhan[/MENTION]

I agree, the Russians lacked the aerial surveillance that they'll no doubt work on. But the reason why this war is ongoing is because the Ukranians have a huge army and started off with a huge arsenal of weapons. The Russians went in with a force of 200k. You tell me if there's ever been an example of such a small army covering a frontline that is almost 1000km?

Given the Russians went in with just 200k soldiers and lack in the surveillance/drone department, they're doing a pretty good job.

Regarding comparing to the USA. Can you give me an example of how the USA has done against an army as capable as the Ukranians? You can't because the Americans are too busy fighting in countries with people who don't have the means to fight back.
 
The SBS could mine it from speedboats.

Possibly but I think a special forces operation would struggle to get near the Kerch Bridge with the Black Sea fleet on patrol.

Much as I want 🇺🇦 to win, I don’t believe they will ever get their territory back, at least while Putin is alive. Probably the best they can do is hold ground, wear the Russkis down and wait for political change in Moscow.
 
[MENTION=154102]mazkhan[/MENTION]

I agree, the Russians lacked the aerial surveillance that they'll no doubt work on. But the reason why this war is ongoing is because the Ukranians have a huge army and started off with a huge arsenal of weapons. The Russians went in with a force of 200k. You tell me if there's ever been an example of such a small army covering a frontline that is almost 1000km?

Given the Russians went in with just 200k soldiers and lack in the surveillance/drone department, they're doing a pretty good job.

Regarding comparing to the USA. Can you give me an example of how the USA has done against an army as capable as the Ukranians? You can't because the Americans are too busy fighting in countries with people who don't have the means to fight back.

Modern wars aren't fought with 100000s of soldiers

They are fought using intelligence gathering aircraft and satellites and then comes in the aircraft drones with PRECISION standoff munitions.

If russia fought like modern doctrine they would have rendered the heavy ukraine arsenal useless and up in smoke.

Then they would just to roll in and if their troops got attacked by guerilla units you hit them with attack helicopters drones and paratroopers and special forces missions because the intelligence equipment in the air would be the eyes for the ground troops , they would never dare stand toe to toe make concrete fortifications or trenches because they would get blitzed from the air .
 
Regarding comparing to the USA. Can you give me an example of how the USA has done against an army as capable as the Ukranians? You can’t

I can.

USA-UK-Poland-Australia rolled over Saddam’s forces in 26 days in 2003, defeating an army of 600K troops and 600K reserves plus 2000 tanks and 300 combat aircraft.

The Coalition benefited from excellent command and control, specific objective planning, excellent logistics, and highly professional troops.

Russia has been handicapped by poor command and control, hopeless planning and logistics, bad intel, and conscripted or national service troops.

Not that I agree with the Iraq War but it shows what Western armies are capable of, compared to the demonstrably incompetent Russian military.
 
Just look at kargil warfare where pakistan troops had no air cover

India smashed them with attack aircraft and satellite precision guided artillery.

Their troops then still had feh ardous task of climbing 5000m + peaks in subzero Arctic temperatures to finish of any last remaining resistance .

Indians smoked them out of their holes with mirages and bofors and in the retreat killed 100s of our troops.

Don't believe the ispr propaganda that nawaz sharif ordered the retreat it was our musharraf and our generals backside that went when they realised they couldn't compete on the battlefield.
 
Very revealing Darth Putin tweet today, which sums everything up nicely:

“OTD in 2020 a Russian in Russia, under close surveillance by Russian intelligence, got on a plane in Russia to fly from Russia to Russia & was poisoned by Russian nerve agent only Russia has, as part of "western plot" to overthrow me.

I was real victim in Navalny poisoning.”
 
Russia's lack of precision weapons is very lacking right now.

I feel when the winter bites the war won't still change as the US will keep on supplying weapons to the Ukrainians. Russia's best chance is to declare mass mobilisation. Fighting this war with a skeleton army will bleed them out.
 
How significant is the latest drone strike in Crimea?

Air Vice Marshal Sean Bell has been speaking to Sky News after Ukraine reportedly launched a fresh strike on Russia's Black Sea fleet headquarters in Sevastopol today.

The military analyst said the damage was "significant" but from a strategic perspective most of the military targets could be replaced.

"From a perception perspective, it's huge. Absolutely huge. Crimea will have been considered safe by the Russians as a forward supply area for its military effort in southern Ukraine," Mr Bell said.

"All of a sudden now some audacious strikes show that Crimea is within range of Ukraine."

Asked if Ukraine now had the upper hand, Mr Bell continued: "I think we are still looking at the might of Russia's military machine but I think up until now if you look at the Donbas there's been a grinding war of attrition up there and whilst the Ukrainians have been heroic in their defence, they have been ceding ground.

"It's very difficult for most military analysts to predict how the Ukrainians will be able to fight back."

Mr Bell went on to say strikes in Crimea meant Russian forces would have to shift their focus away from the Donbas region in eastern Ukraine.

He added: "I wouldn't characterise it as Ukraine taking an upper hand but it is reassuring to see that Ukraine is now starting to take the initiative.

"Initiative is everything in warfare. If you don't know what your enemy is going to do you have to start second guessing and Russia will not know where Ukraine is going to strike next."
 
Paraphrasing a section from the video. "The masses are falling for the propaganda coming from Washington, it's incredible how coordinated the propaganda is. They are winning the information war."

The video also goes on to cover how the Ukrainians are sending territorial defence units as fodder to the front in Donbas because they know it's lost. This is evil.

The video also explains some of rude awakenings that foreign fighters faced when they went to fight in Ukraine.

https://youtu.be/kPWLtWHXIiU
 
<b>Ukraine war: Drone attack targets Russian Black Sea fleet in Crimea</b>

Russian forces in Crimea have been targeted by a fresh drone strike.

The Russian-appointed regional leader said a Ukrainian drone targeting Russia's Black Sea fleet in the city of Sevastopol was shot down on Saturday.

It follows a string of attacks on Russian forces and installations in the annexed peninsula this month.

Meanwhile Ukraine's president has welcomed a deal allowing UN inspectors to visit the Russian-held Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant, further north.

Early on Saturday a video showed smoke rising from the area in Sevastopol where Russia's Black Sea fleet is based. BBC News havevnot been able to independently verify the footage.

The Russian-installed governor, Mikhail Razvozhayev, played down the seriousness of the incident.

He said the fleet's air defences had been activated and the Ukrainian drone destroyed.

"It fell on the roof of the headquarters," he said.

"There was no significant damage and no one was hurt."

Several drone attacks have been reported in Crimea in recent days, including one on an airbase near Sevastopol on Thursday and another on the harbour on Friday.

Earlier in the month nine Russian jets were destroyed in an attack on the Russian military base at Saky, on Crimea's western coast.

Footage on social media at the time showed crowds of Russian tourists fleeing a nearby resort.

Crimea was invaded and annexed by Russia in 2014, and Ukraine has vowed to retake it.

However the Kyiv government has not confirmed or denied involvement in the recent attacks.

Moscow has blamed sabotage for some of them, indicating some kind of special military operation perhaps by Ukrainian forces - or those loyal to Kyiv.

Western officials say these incidents are having a major operational and psychological impact on Russian forces.

In another other development, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said the safety of the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant could start to be restored with a visit of international inspectors.

He was speaking after Russia's Vladimir Putin said Moscow would grant UN inspectors access to the facility, north of Crimea.

The Kremlin and Kyiv have blamed each other for shelling the plant over the past week, raising fears of a nuclear catastrophe.

Meanwhile Russia has pressed on with its tactic of overnight shelling of cities, targeting Kharkiv, Dnipro and Mykolaiv, among others.

And the Russian-installed mayor of Mariupol reportedly survived an assassination attempt.

A Russian state TV reporter said the mayor, Kostyantyn Ivashchenko, was in a car when an explosive device went off at the entrance to the city's zoo.

Also on Saturday, UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres held a press conference in Turkey after another two grain ships left Ukraine.

He said he had been "deeply moved" watching a ship carrying grain heading to the Horn of Africa and that such deliveries provided "urgently needed relief for those suffering from acute hunger".

The safe passage of the vessels has been enabled through UN-brokered deals with Turkey, Russia and Ukraine last month.

Mr Guterres added that enabling the transport of food and fertiliser from Russia is also critical as the cost of living crisis deepens.

https://t.co/JSlCwLRTrQ
 
Modern wars aren't fought with 100000s of soldiers

They are fought using intelligence gathering aircraft and satellites and then comes in the aircraft drones with PRECISION standoff munitions.

If russia fought like modern doctrine they would have rendered the heavy ukraine arsenal useless and up in smoke.

Then they would just to roll in and if their troops got attacked by guerilla units you hit them with attack helicopters drones and paratroopers and special forces missions because the intelligence equipment in the air would be the eyes for the ground troops , they would never dare stand toe to toe make concrete fortifications or trenches because they would get blitzed from the air .

Russia's lack of precision weapons is very lacking right now.

I feel when the winter bites the war won't still change as the US will keep on supplying weapons to the Ukrainians. Russia's best chance is to declare mass mobilisation. Fighting this war with a skeleton army will bleed them out.

Russia has the most advanced and sophisticated precision weapons in terms of missile technology.

People are still not understanding Russia is taking its time for a very good reason, the sanctions have backfired. Today you have Germans in some parts taking cold showers. What do you think will be their fate by December?

The real war here is the economic war which will change history forever.

Besides people on this thread esp Mr Leigh being excited by Ukrainians lobbing missiles, need to wake up and realise this is not a victory, taking land is victory, which Russia has , while Ukraine has lost and not taken sweet fa back.
 
Putins brain.. Dugin. Daughters has gone.

Another sensless victim
Russia started this war as a war of colonial expansion and invasion.

They don’t get to set the agenda or the end point.

Russia retains its Asian Empire long after Britain and France gave theirs freedom.

But Russia’s claim to Vladivostok is the same as Britain’s claim to Lahore.

And Russia’s claim to the German city of Kaliningrad is the same as the USA’s claim to West Berlin.

Putin and Russia need to learn that there are consequences to launching unprovoked invasions to expand your Empire.

One of which is that you place the rest of your Empire under renewed scrutiny.

And now the war criminals who lead Russia are targets any time, any place, until their Empire is liberated.
 
Russia has the most advanced and sophisticated precision weapons in terms of missile technology.

People are still not understanding Russia is taking its time for a very good reason, the sanctions have backfired. Today you have Germans in some parts taking cold showers. What do you think will be their fate by December?

The real war here is the economic war which will change history forever.

Besides people on this thread esp Mr Leigh being excited by Ukrainians lobbing missiles, need to wake up and realise this is not a victory, taking land is victory, which Russia has , while Ukraine has lost and not taken sweet fa back.

The EU can go bankrupt it doesn't matter, they already bend over for the US, Uncle Sam will keep funding the Ukrainians and the Russians will stay bogged down. Poland despises Russia and they will happily keep the border open for weapons. Russia's precision tech I don't think we'll agree on that. My point is EU will suffer, it already is. However this conflict dragging on till ten more years won't do the Russians any good either. Nor are they going to protect and defend such a massive country with barely 100,000 men. People don't realise how big Ukraine actually is. And if they think they'll eek out a victory with 90 to 100k men then it shows how shoddy their planning is.

If they are not going to mobilise we will be sitting here till next year with no real change in battle lines on top of the 9 months this has dragged on.

You can quote me on it next year and I will happily admit I am wrong.
 
The EU can go bankrupt it doesn't matter, they already bend over for the US, Uncle Sam will keep funding the Ukrainians and the Russians will stay bogged down. Poland despises Russia and they will happily keep the border open for weapons. Russia's precision tech I don't think we'll agree on that. And if they think they'll eek out a victory with 90 to 100k men then it shows how shoddy their planning is.

If they are not going to mobilise we will be sitting here till next year with no real change in battle lines on top of the 9 months this has dragged on.

You can quote me on it next year and I will happily admit I am wrong.

Putin can’t launch a general mobilisation after lying to the public that it’s not a war.

So instead we seeing Russian soldiers whose contracts expired in May being forced to stay on active duty.

The Russians have real problems. They have hardly any cruise missiles left and for weeks have been reduced to using anti-ship and surface-to-air missiles to attack land targets.

The Russians have lost half their frontline soldiers, and the rest are being endlessly rotated with no breaks except for their nightly rape excursions. But the only civilians left to rape in Donbas are ethnic Russians, so day by day the Russians alienate their former allies.

Meanwhile the Ukrainians are now regularly hitting occupied Crimea. The Russians no longer have anywhere left to hide.
 
If they are not going to mobilise we will be sitting here till next year with no real change in battle lines on top of the 9 months this has dragged on.

You can quote me on it next year and I will happily admit I am wrong.

The Russians have a plan, this is is something I learned in the last few hours. Referendums will be held in the regions they have captured in September. The expectations are since only ethnic Russians mainly live there, they will vote to join Russia.

Once this is done Putin will under Russian law send conscripts to protect the newly formed Russian territory and rotate every few weeks. Unless they hold referendums he won't have full public backing. Whilst conscripts police captured territory the main army will move on forward.

The Ukrainians know this is coming and know they pretty much can't do anything and publicly it will be humiliation. That is apparently the main reason why they are getting more and more desperate and doing stupid things like shelling the nuclear power station now.
 
The Russians have a plan, this is is something I learned in the last few hours. Referendums will be held in the regions they have captured in September. The expectations are since only ethnic Russians mainly live there, they will vote to join Russia.

Once this is done Putin will under Russian law send conscripts to protect the newly formed Russian territory and rotate every few weeks. Unless they hold referendums he won't have full public backing. Whilst conscripts police captured territory the main army will move on forward..

75% of the Donbas population has left, and most of them moved to western Ukraine. They have shown that - like Zelensky - they are ethnically Russian but support Ukraine.

The hardcore 25% of Ethnic Russians who have stayed in Donbas are finding that they are now the people whom the Russian Army rapes and loots from. So they don’t support Russia either, now that Russia is destroying their infrastructure and raping their mothers, sisters and daughters.

Russia would be lucky to win 10% of the vote if all Donbas citizens were given a vote - including the 60% who now live in Kyiv, Lviv and Kharkiv.
 
75% of the Donbas population has left, and most of them moved to western Ukraine. They have shown that - like Zelensky - they are ethnically Russian but support Ukraine.

The hardcore 25% of Ethnic Russians who have stayed in Donbas are finding that they are now the people whom the Russian Army rapes and loots from. So they don’t support Russia either, now that Russia is destroying their infrastructure and raping their mothers, sisters and daughters.

Russia would be lucky to win 10% of the vote if all Donbas citizens were given a vote - including the 60% who now live in Kyiv, Lviv and Kharkiv.

Now you're talking out your rear end. You are a childish poster who never backs claims with sources. Where is your source for all this figures? Where is your source regarding the rapes? Where is your source that Ukraine had any say in these potential referendums?

By the way the General Staff of Ukraine have announced that they are retreating from Blogonoye between Mykolaiv and Kherson. Yesterday you were all bubbly about some counter offensive in this area. Today Ukraine announce the they are retreating. So it just goes to show how gullible you are.

Apparently once again AFU units are getting pounded by artillery and have no way to countering it. Same theme always. Artillery, artillery and artillery which the Russians are not running out of any time soon.
 
Now you're talking out your rear end. You are a childish poster who never backs claims with sources. Where is your source for all this figures? Where is your source regarding the rapes? Where is your source that Ukraine had any say in these potential referendums?

By the way the General Staff of Ukraine have announced that they are retreating from Blogonoye between Mykolaiv and Kherson. Yesterday you were all bubbly about some counter offensive in this area. Today Ukraine announce the they are retreating. So it just goes to show how gullible you are.

Apparently once again AFU units are getting pounded by artillery and have no way to countering it. Same theme always. Artillery, artillery and artillery which the Russians are not running out of any time soon.

That doesn't even exist
 
Interesting tweet from Kamil Galeev today:

“I don't really believe in the global incel consipiracy.

But the Western dissident right (most of whom are not incels)) indeed tend to sympathise Russia.

I think it's more about power than about sex. They usually feel powerless in their home countries and put their hopes on Putin.”

…..

I’m not so sure. Certainly in psychiatry we are seeing that the people who support Russia seem very invested in viewing Russia as a strong anti-Imperial power and in viewing Putin as a master strategist.

And they get very defensive about Putin’s schoolboy errors and they hate having to confront the fact that Russia’s is the last 19th century Empire yet to go through decolonisation.
 
Interesting tweet from Kamil Galeev today:

“I don't really believe in the global incel consipiracy.

But the Western dissident right (most of whom are not incels)) indeed tend to sympathise Russia.

I think it's more about power than about sex. They usually feel powerless in their home countries and put their hopes on Putin.”

…..

I’m not so sure. Certainly in psychiatry we are seeing that the people who support Russia seem very invested in viewing Russia as a strong anti-Imperial power and in viewing Putin as a master strategist.

And they get very defensive about Putin’s schoolboy errors and they hate having to confront the fact that Russia’s is the last 19th century Empire yet to go through decolonisation.

These people are socially inadequate basically. They resent anyone Other (women, blacks, browns, gays) and believe that some conspiracy of rich folk (Jews) is holding them back. When really they are held back by poor communications skills and a lack of work skills. So they look to some uncompromising strongman figure like Putin or Trump as a saviour.
 
As much as I would like Ukraine to be behind the Dugan assassination, it’s clear that it was an FSB operation.

Dugin had reportedly started to tell Putin information that the FSB was unhappy with, and this seems to have been an operation to silence him.

The next step will be fascinating. If the Russians escalate attacks on Kyiv or Lviv they may well provoke the USA into agreeing the transfer of longer range missiles or MiG-29’s.

And if Russia stages a false flag attack on the Zaporizhizhia nuclear reactor, I suspect that Tobias Elwood may well be right that NATO would deem that to be an attack on NATO and respond by entering the war.
 
These people are socially inadequate basically. They resent anyone Other (women, blacks, browns, gays) and believe that some conspiracy of rich folk (Jews) is holding them back. When really they are held back by poor communications skills and a lack of work skills. So they look to some uncompromising strongman figure like Putin or Trump as a saviour.

Poor post.

While some posters here might be that, the fact there is a world outside of the West who doesn't really care about Ukraine at all and sees this war as the West being hypocrites yet again. Look at how nations voted in the UN. The countries who abstained or voted for Russia comprise of more than half of the world's population.

You know why?

Because to the world the West only cares about nations when it hurts their interest. While it is happy to sell weapons to butchers like MBS who kill Yemenis. Happy to bomb nations in Africa whenever they please. Happy to back regime changes across the globe as they wish. Happy to back the Israeli regime commit horrific crimes. It was also happy to sit back when the Russians flattened Grozny or when they battered Georgia because Putin was their best pal back then.

So outside of Europe and few allies in Asia, noone really cares and is indifferent at best or hates the West in other cases.

This isn't my personal view as I hate what Putin is doing right now. Just a little reminder for people like you who seem very ignorant at how the world views the West from Africa to Asia. Not a personal dig at you as I really respect you as a person/poster.
 
Mistake in spelling but the actual village is Blahodatne.

The point is, Russia are slowly pushing Ukraine further back - so looks like less chance of the counter offensive.

I can't find anything from him to suggest that, in fact he said Yesterday Russia launched an attack there, failed and withdrew
 
Shoigu said yesterday that hypersonic missiles in production. He also said Ukraine has suffered over 150k losses which includes kia, wiz and deserted.
 
Poor post.

While some posters here might be that, the fact there is a world outside of the West who doesn't really care about Ukraine at all and sees this war as the West being hypocrites yet again. Look at how nations voted in the UN. The countries who abstained or voted for Russia comprise of more than half of the world's population.

You know why?

Because to the world the West only cares about nations when it hurts their interest. While it is happy to sell weapons to butchers like MBS who kill Yemenis. Happy to bomb nations in Africa whenever they please. Happy to back regime changes across the globe as they wish. Happy to back the Israeli regime commit horrific crimes. It was also happy to sit back when the Russians flattened Grozny or when they battered Georgia because Putin was their best pal back then.

So outside of Europe and few allies in Asia, noone really cares and is indifferent at best or hates the West in other cases.

This isn't my personal view as I hate what Putin is doing right now. Just a little reminder for people like you who seem very ignorant at how the world views the West from Africa to Asia. Not a personal dig at you as I really respect you as a person/poster.

I’m not talking about anyone except those white men in Europe and USA who have chips on their shoulders about the drive toward increasing equality in these societies, and look to people like Putin because they are Strong White Male leaders and make them feel better about themselves.
 
Great discussion. Bottom line is that Ukraine has lost, they lost in May. But the war isn't over. Reference to WW2 and the battle of Kursk where both sides knew Germany had lost but the war went on for another 2 years. Ukraine has suffered horrid casualties and totally unsustainable.
https://youtu.be/fD44Eb1xDhE
 
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