Russia invades Ukraine

[bones]

Victoria Nuland: NS will not run, we will end it.
Joe Biden: We will get NS one way or another.

Yesterday the NS pipeline is hit and MSM are starting to question why the Russians did it. The sheer audacity of the propaganda.

 

[bones]

If nuclear war results, nowhere on the planet is safe. Civilisation in the Northern hemisphere will cease to exist, and even the Southern will suffer climate catastrophe and depopulation.

The Russians are not escalating to it, America are. I now understand why the Russians made statements last week about nuclear threats, America is prepared to do anything to keep Ukraine fighting and support up.

The Germans were looking for diplomacy, destroying NS pipelines has put an end to that it seems.

Germany this year has destroyed itself as an economy for American dreams.

 

[cpleigh]

Why do you have a problem with this election then? There is no proof that anything illegal has happened.

Not sure why CNN is calling it a sham election. It is disrespectful.

I really struggle to keep explaining to people. Russia invaded .. forced out or killed ukranians. All that's left is either pro Russians or Russians shipped in...

They are then forced to vote under duress with no independent monitors

 

[cpleigh]

Your own MSM is reporting 90+ %

Cite up or put up.

3% of the people that lived in that region pre war remain.

 

[cpleigh]

The Russians are not escalating to it, America are. I now understand why the Russians made statements last week about nuclear threats, America is prepared to do anything to keep Ukraine fighting and support up.

The Germans were looking for diplomacy, destroying NS pipelines has put an end to that it seems.

Germany this year has destroyed itself as an economy for American dreams.

I've now come to the conclusion you are either a Russian Bot or just a guilable child.

'russians are not escalating'

I mean .. what?!?

 

[Robert]

The Russians are not escalating to it, America are. I now understand why the Russians made statements last week about nuclear threats, America is prepared to do anything to keep Ukraine fighting and support up.

Hey, Putin rattled the nuclear saved, not Biden.

Good for America, then. Every British political party agrees. European democracy must stand.

The Germans were looking for diplomacy, destroying NS pipelines has put an end to that it seems.

Germany this year has destroyed itself as an economy for American dreams.

Germany will be back in short order - they export so many Mercs, Beamers and Audis. Additionally they have given a massive boost to their weapons industry in case Putin tries it on. They have to switch to nuclear and renewables quickly. I see this as a positive - EU now has an imperative to hit Carbon Zero on schedule.

 

[Robert]

Why do you have a problem with this election then? There is no proof that anything illegal has happened.

Not sure why CNN is calling it a sham election. It is disrespectful.

Because Russian soldiers with guns are collecting the ballots door to door. They know exactly who voted for what. Compare to how you vote in Canada.

 

[bones]

I've now come to the conclusion you are either a Russian Bot or just a guilable child.

'russians are not escalating'

I mean .. what?!?

There is a difference between escalating and responding. America escalates and Russia responds.

 

[Sidilicious]

The Russians are not escalating to it, America are. I now understand why the Russians made statements last week about nuclear threats, America is prepared to do anything to keep Ukraine fighting and support up.

The Germans were looking for diplomacy, destroying NS pipelines has put an end to that it seems.

Germany this year has destroyed itself as an economy for American dreams.

They are not escalating it? What was that mobilisation?

And if they aren’t escalating it, that’s because they got their arses handed to them by the ukranians. They are sh*t scared.

PS - before you erroneously claim it was a strategic pullout, you don’t leave masses of tanks and equipment in a “strategic” pullout.

 

[bones]

Hey, Putin rattled the nuclear saved, not Biden.

Good for America, then. Every British political party agrees. European democracy must stand.



Germany will be back in short order - they export so many Mercs, Beamers and Audis. Additionally they have given a massive boost to their weapons industry in case Putin tries it on. They have to switch to nuclear and renewables quickly. I see this as a positive - EU now has an imperative to hit Carbon Zero on schedule.

Putin is responding to American escalation. The escalation is always done by America first.

Believe it or not, to make cars you need energy. What is Germany going to be shirt on for the next year at least?

 

[bones]

They are not escalating it? What was that mobilisation?

And if they aren’t escalating it, that’s because they got their arses handed to them by the ukranians. They are sh*t scared.

PS - before you erroneously claim it was a strategic pullout, you don’t leave masses of tanks and equipment in a “strategic” pullout.

The mobilisation was in response to American escalation. The Americans decided to give weapons that could reach deep into Russia.

It was a strategic pull out that is why there were no fights. It was just Ukraine rolling over empty area. How much equipment was left behind? Not much because there were not many Russian forces there.

Russia is holding referendums inside Ukraine and Ukraine and their masters can't do anything about it. You talk about getting their ar*** handed to them. What would you call it when the enemy is holding referendums in your country lol?

 

[Robert]

Putin is responding to American escalation. The escalation is always done by America first.

Believe it or not, to make cars you need energy. What is Germany going to be shirt on for the next year at least?

Yeah, I noticed how USA invaded Crimea and then Donbas.

 

[bones]

Yeah, I noticed how USA invaded Crimea and then Donbas.

Remember the promise from America 30 years ago? "Not one step eastward" - yet here we are.

 

[Gilly]

Russia is holding referendums inside Ukraine and Ukraine and their masters can't do anything about it. You talk about getting their ar*** handed to them. What would you call it when the enemy is holding referendums in your country lol?

So you admit that it is Ukraine's country.

 

[bones]

So you admit that it is Ukraine's country.

It was Ukraine - it won't be anymore...

 

[cpleigh]

Remember the promise from America 30 years ago? "Not one step eastward" - yet here we are.

Absolutely ZERO proof that ever happened. In fact Gorbachev also denied it.

More Russian lies

 

[James]

Putin is responding to American escalation. The escalation is always done by America first.

No doubt the US has a proactive and an extremely aggressive foreign policy, but let’s not fall into the habit of portraying an ex KGB sociopath and corrupt autocrat like Putin as some kind of heroic victim. This is not a cosmic ballet of good v evil, it is a horrible earthly conflict of bad v bad.

 

[MenInG]

The EU has said leaks in two major gas pipelines from Russia to Europe were caused by sabotage - but stopped short of directly accusing Russia.

Deliberate disruption would result in the "strongest possible response", said the head of the European Commission, Ursula von der Leyen.

Ukraine earlier went further, accusing Russia of a "terrorist attack".

The EU has previously accused Russia of using gas supplies, and the Nord Stream line, as a weapon against the West.

The US Secretary of State Antony Blinken said he thought the leaks would "not have a significant impact on Europe's energy resilience". Neither pipeline is transporting gas at the moment, although they both contain gas.

Mr Blinken did not directly accuse Russia - but said it would be in "no-one's interest" if they were caused deliberately.

The president of the European Council, Charles Michel, echoed Ms von der Leyen's message.

"Nord Stream sabotage acts appears to be an attempt to further destabilise energy supply to [the] EU," he said on Twitter.

The Danish energy minister, Dan Jorgensen, said the leaks were likely to last for at least a week, until the gas escaping from the pipes runs out. The investigation would begin after that.

BBC

 

[Robert]

You keep peddling this nonsense. How could they have ended it very quickly?

He’s right n that they could have gone shock-and-awe to knock out power and comms in Kyiv, destroyed the air bases, grabbed the airport with paratroopers and pushed that column through to decapitate the government and change regime.

Oh wait, they tried the latter and ran out of gas and blew half their tyres.

 

[Robert]

No doubt the US has a proactive and an extremely aggressive foreign policy, but let’s not fall into the habit of portraying an ex KGB sociopath and corrupt autocrat like Putin as some kind of heroic victim. This is not a cosmic ballet of good v evil, it is a horrible earthly conflict of bad v bad.

I see it as democracy vs. a despot.

 

[sweep_shot]

He’s right n that they could have gone shock-and-awe to knock out power and comms in Kyiv, destroyed the air bases, grabbed the airport with paratroopers and pushed that column through to decapitate the government and change regime.

Oh wait, they tried the latter and ran out of gas and blew half their tyres.

They didn't try the latter.

It was never an all-out war. Otherwise, you could've seen a different Russia.

 

[James]

He’s right n that they could have gone shock-and-awe to knock out power and comms in Kyiv, destroyed the air bases, grabbed the airport with paratroopers and pushed that column through to decapitate the government and change regime.

Oh wait, they tried the latter and ran out of gas and blew half their tyres.

There seems to be a view amongst some that this was never the plan, and that Ukraine are only still in with a chance because Russia deliberately underperformed and weren’t fully trying in some way. This for me is a stretch.

 

[cpleigh]

They didn't try the latter.

It was never an all-out war. Otherwise, you could've seen a different Russia.

Like Afghanistan?

 

[sweep_shot]

Like Afghanistan?

You are changing topic. Focus on Ukraine.

Was it an all-out war from the beginning? Answer is no.

 

[cpleigh]

You are changing topic. Focus on Ukraine.

Was it an all-out war from the beginning? Answer is no.

No i'm not, i'm just picking up on your nonsense

 

[sweep_shot]

No i'm not, i'm just picking up on your nonsense

Was there ever a point in this conflict when Russia used their full firepower? It seems to me they were in a restrained mode. Gloves weren't fully off.

 

[Robert]

They didn't try the latter.

It was never an all-out war. Otherwise, you could've seen a different Russia.

Yeah, they did, but the paratroopers all got killed or captured and the relief column broke down and ran out of gas because incompetence.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The EU has said leaks in two major gas pipelines from Russia to Europe were caused by sabotage - but stopped short of directly accusing Russia.

Deliberate disruption would result in the "strongest possible response", said the head of the European Commission, Ursula von der Leyen.

Ukraine earlier went further, accusing Russia of a "terrorist attack".

The EU has previously accused Russia of using gas supplies, and the Nord Stream line, as a weapon against the West.

The US Secretary of State Antony Blinken said he thought the leaks would "not have a significant impact on Europe's energy resilience". Neither pipeline is transporting gas at the moment, although they both contain gas.

Mr Blinken did not directly accuse Russia - but said it would be in "no-one's interest" if they were caused deliberately.

The president of the European Council, Charles Michel, echoed Ms von der Leyen's message.

"Nord Stream sabotage acts appears to be an attempt to further destabilise energy supply to [the] EU," he said on Twitter.

The Danish energy minister, Dan Jorgensen, said the leaks were likely to last for at least a week, until the gas escaping from the pipes runs out. The investigation would begin after that.

BBC

What's the difference between using gas supplies as a weapon and economic sanctions? If we are going to hurt Russia with sanctions and military support for Ukraine, wouldn't you expect them to use their assets as a weapon also?

 

[Technics 1210]

Putin has reduced the UK to a GBP crisis, cost of living crisis, energy crisis.

UK on the other hand has BILLIONS to send to Ukraine to fight a lost cause.

Your Liberal/NATO apologists will not say a word against this UK government sending BILLIONS to Ukraine, but in other threads are critical of Tory budgets. Brainwashed to the max.

Putin has won the economical war, has won the social war, has achieved the goal of destroying the EU, meanwhile its the UK worried about Russia’s Dad’s army.

It’s hard to believe the UK claims to have won WW1 and WW2 with such intellect, oh wait, UK didn’t, had to rely on Russians for help.

 

[Technics 1210]

It’s funny that Europeans are crying over the Nord pipeline. Why? When Europe is shifting away from Russian supplies of Gas?

You guessed it, Europe still relies on Russian natural resources.

 

[Technics 1210]

Like Afghanistan?

Yes like Afghanistan, NATO waged war on Afghanistan on the pretext Afghanistan attacked USA.

I know you have no evidence of Afghanistan attacking USA, but on the off chance, defend your NATO gods now.

Just exposing your nonsense.

 

[Robert]

There seems to be a view amongst some that this was never the plan, and that Ukraine are only still in with a chance because Russia deliberately underperformed and weren’t fully trying in some way. This for me is a stretch.

I would say that Putin deluded himself into believing that his army was more capable, better equipped and better maintained than in reality, and would easily overcome Ukrainian resistance.

Also I think he believed that Ukraine is really Russia and his troops would have just taken over like in Crimea. Of course since 2014 the Ukrainians built up their army for this eventuality.

 

[cpleigh]

It’s funny that Europeans are crying over the Nord pipeline. Why? When Europe is shifting away from Russian supplies of Gas?

You guessed it, Europe still relies on Russian natural resources.

The pipe line hasn't carried gas to Europe since early summer.

Thinks it's because it's a terror attack, and completely Reckless

 

[cpleigh]

Yes like Afghanistan, NATO waged war on Afghanistan on the pretext Afghanistan attacked USA.

I know you have no evidence of Afghanistan attacking USA, but on the off chance, defend your NATO gods now.

Just exposing your nonsense.

Al Qaeda planned a mass terror attack on the US. Not the first either. Afghanistan gave them sanctuary and allowed them to build terror training camps.
The attack then happened. That triggered article 5.
The US then demanded the Taliban gave bin Laden up.

They refused. Is that hard to grasp?

 

[Technics 1210]

Al Qaeda planned a mass terror attack on the US. Not the first either. Afghanistan gave them sanctuary and allowed them to build terror training camps.
The attack then happened. That triggered article 5.
The US then demanded the Taliban gave bin Laden up.

They refused. Is that hard to grasp?

OBL was a Saudi citizen, ans according to the Amreekan intelligence agencies, the attackers were Saudi too, so why not attack Saudi Arabia?

On top of this Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 either yet once again, the West waged an illegal war.

To sum up you have no evidence and the War on Afghanistan and Iraq were illegal and preplanned by NATO, they just wanted another excuse.

Now Russia is doing the same, it is blaming NATO the same way NATO blamed Afghanistan, but of course you will never accept blame let alone the hypocrisy of NATO.

 

[Robert]

The pipe line hasn't carried gas to Europe since early summer.

Thinks it's because it's a terror attack, and completely Reckless

Not sure what terrorists could do. They would need a depth charge. Or a submarine.

My immediate thought was the Russian navy.

But why would the Russian navy mine the pipes if gas wasn’t flowing anyway?

Weird.

 

[cpleigh]

OBL was a Saudi citizen, ans according to the Amreekan intelligence agencies, the attackers were Saudi too, so why not attack Saudi Arabia?

On top of this Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 either yet once again, the West waged an illegal war.

To sum up you have no evidence and the War on Afghanistan and Iraq were illegal and preplanned by NATO, they just wanted another excuse.

Now Russia is doing the same, it is blaming NATO the same way NATO blamed Afghanistan, but of course you will never accept blame let alone the hypocrisy of NATO.

Right, you are being a complete idiot here on purpose. The attackers may have been born in Saudi, but they plotted, planned and trained for it in Afghanistan. THAT country facilitated it and helped them attack the US.

no idea why you feel the need to bring Iraq into it. Yes the Iraq war was illegal, think everyone accepts that.

So you feel its absolutely fine to critize the 'west' for an illegal war... then admit Russia is doing the same... but you champion their cause. You also keep mentioning every military involvement of NATO but ignore Russias recent military aggressions.

You are a complete hypocrite, which has been proven over and over

 

[mazkhan]

Nord stream attack was caused by the cia

Who is benefiting with the eu collapsing, pound collapsing , dollar getting stronger ,russia army being depleted and battered no other than usa.

German industry has just committed economical suicide for usa

 

[cpleigh]

Not sure what terrorists could do. They would need a depth charge. Or a submarine.

My immediate thought was the Russian navy.

But why would the Russian navy mine the pipes if gas wasn’t flowing anyway?

Weird.

I'm calling the Russian Gov terrorists. A few reasons:

A: a message that the same could happen to the new pipe line from Norway to Poland.
B: Absolves Russia of any penalty clause payments for not delivering Gas (under Force Majure)
C: Shift the blame from their calamatous attack and recent Mobilization
D: Feeds the Russian bots all over the web with stupid theories

It's straight from Putins playbook, he's used it so many times

 

[cpleigh]

Nord stream attack was caused by the cia

Who is benefiting with the eu collapsing, pound collapsing , dollar getting stronger ,russia army being depleted and battered no other than usa.

German industry has just committed economical suicide for usa

Absolute rubbish. The US wouldn't need to blow it up, their political will is so strong in NATO they can just tell the Germans they can't use it.

To be able to blow that up you need 2 things:

Either a sub attack or the bombs were built into it as a fail safe for later ready to detonate.

 

[Technics 1210]

Right, .....

You have ignored your own hypocrisy, but nice rant.

NATO arming, funding, training Ukrainians, and therefore by your, Amreeka, and NATO logic, Russia has the right to declare war on Ukraine despite Russia asking NATO not to, just like Amreeka/NATO on Afghanistan and Iraq.

Come back when you have a counter to your hypocritical thinking, cos as I said, you millennials need to play catch up.

 

[bones]

Absolute rubbish. The US wouldn't need to blow it up, their political will is so strong in NATO they can just tell the Germans they can't use it.

To be able to blow that up you need 2 things:

Either a sub attack or the bombs were built into it as a fail safe for later ready to detonate.

Let's see how strong the US political control is when German industries shut down, they are right now but it will go to another level.

 

[bones]

There are sheep who think Russia blew up their own expensive pipelines during a time of global financial crisis. The idea that Russia would destroy one of, if not the single biggest economic assets is so absurd that it makes me laugh.

 

[sweep_shot]

I'm calling the Russian Gov terrorists. A few reasons:

A: a message that the same could happen to the new pipe line from Norway to Poland.
B: Absolves Russia of any penalty clause payments for not delivering Gas (under Force Majure)
C: Shift the blame from their calamatous attack and recent Mobilization
D: Feeds the Russian bots all over the web with stupid theories

It's straight from Putins playbook, he's used it so many times

Is there any proof that these allegations are true?

Seems like you are just guessing. You do not have any proof.

 

[bones]

Is there any proof that these allegations are true?

Seems like you are just guessing. You do not have any proof.

His proof is usually the Kyiv Independent. Don't believe a word he says.

 

[cpleigh]

There are sheep who think Russia blew up their own expensive pipelines during a time of global financial crisis. The idea that Russia would destroy one of, if not the single biggest economic assets is so absurd that it makes me laugh.

It was no longer an 'economic asset'.. in fact it was the opposite

 

[cpleigh]

You have ignored your own hypocrisy, but nice rant.

NATO arming, funding, training Ukrainians, and therefore by your, Amreeka, and NATO logic, Russia has the right to declare war on Ukraine despite Russia asking NATO not to, just like Amreeka/NATO on Afghanistan and Iraq.

Come back when you have a counter to your hypocritical thinking, cos as I said, you millennials need to play catch up.

Can you not see the difference... really?

Ukraine didn't attack Russia. Ukraine was invaded in 2014 by Russia.

So you're point is absolutely absurd... once again.

 

[cpleigh]

Is there any proof that these allegations are true?

Seems like you are just guessing. You do not have any proof.

No, not yet. It's my opinion. I'm allowed that in the 'west'

 

[Technics 1210]

There are sheep who think Russia blew up their own expensive pipelines during a time of global financial crisis. The idea that Russia would destroy one of, if not the single biggest economic assets is so absurd that it makes me laugh.

You have highlighted the difference between emotive reasoning and logical reasoning.

People who solely rely on MSM rely on emotive reasoning as they do not question the MSM narrative using logical reasoning. This is mostly down to fear of having to accept logic that destroys their belief.

This is precisely why the majority who are in support of NATO espouse views than can be read off MSM feeds; and as such add no real value to a debate. They argue from authority - my link is better than yours - type of thing.

Logic clearly dictates Russia would not blow up their key asset, from which they have heavily profited from - it makes no sense.

 

[Technics 1210]

Can you not see the difference... really?

Ukraine didn't attack Russia. Ukraine was invaded in 2014 by Russia.

So you're point is absolutely absurd... once again.

Afghanistan didn't attack USA. An person living, should I say, hiding, in Afghanistan, especially a Saudi citizen, doesn't mean they represent Afghanistan.

I am glad you are slowly accepting the fact Afghanistan did not attack Amreeka and NATO declared an illegal war on Afghanistan.

 

[Technics 1210]

Looks like Russia will formally annex four more areas of Ukraine, to be announced tomorrow.

 

[cpleigh]

Afghanistan didn't attack USA. An person living, should I say, hiding, in Afghanistan, especially a Saudi citizen, doesn't mean they represent Afghanistan.

I am glad you are slowly accepting the fact Afghanistan did not attack Amreeka and NATO declared an illegal war on Afghanistan.

You are wrong again. If that country is giving him and allowing them the means to attack another country it's an attack

 

[cpleigh]

A land grab in 2022. Terrible

 

[Technics 1210]

You are wrong again. If that country is giving him and allowing them the means to attack another country it's an attack

A country allowing a person to attack another country means the country is responsible? So IRA terrorists bombing England really meant Northern Ireland was attacking England according to your warped logic.

You really need to rethink your arguments.

 

[cpleigh]

A country allowing a person to attack another country means the country is responsible? So IRA terrorists bombing England really meant Northern Ireland was attacking England according to your warped logic.

You really need to rethink your arguments.

If they gave him the means to do it. What part are you failing to understand? Afghanistan aided and abeted Bin Laden. They helped train his army to attack

 

[MenInG]

Russia's Vladimir Putin will hold a signing ceremony on Friday formally annexing four more areas of Ukraine after self-styled referendums condemned by Ukraine and the West as a sham.

Russian-backed officials had earlier claimed the five-day exercise secured almost total popular support.

So-called votes were held in Luhansk and Donetsk in the east, and in Zaporizhzhia and Kherson in the south.

The Russian president will make a major speech at the Kremlin.

A stage has already been set up in Moscow's Red Square, with billboards proclaiming the four regions as part of Russia and a concert planned for the evening.

The event echoes Russia's annexation of Crimea in 2014, which also followed a discredited referendum and was heralded by a presidential victory speech from a stage. That initial annexation has never been recognised by the vast majority of the international community. There is no confirmation that Mr Putin is planning a similar outdoor address.

"Tomorrow at 15:00 (12:00GMT) in the St George Hall of the Grand Kremlin Palace a signing ceremony will be held on incorporating the new territories into Russia," said spokesman Dmitry Peskov. Two Russian-backed separatist leaders from the east are also expected to take part.

The Russian president is expected to make a separate address to the upper house of parliament on 4 October, three days before his 70th birthday. Parliament will also have a role in ratifying Russia's annexation, rejected by most of the international community.

No independent monitoring of the process took place and there were accounts of election officials going from door to door escorted by armed soldiers.

The US has said it will impose sanctions on Russia because of the staged referendums, while EU member states are considering an eighth round of measures, including sanctions on anyone involved in the votes.

German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock said on Thursday that people in occupied regions of Ukraine had been taken from their homes and workplaces by threat and sometimes at gunpoint. "This is the opposite of free and fair elections. And this is the opposite of peace, it is a dictated peace," she said.

The exercise began across 15% of Ukraine last Friday with only a few days' notice. Russian state media argued that the use of armed guards was for security purposes, but it was clear that it had the added effect of intimidating residents.

"You have to answer verbally and the soldier marks the answer on the sheet and keeps it," one woman in Enerhodar told the BBC.

Russia does not fully control any of the four regions it has decided to annex. Although most of Luhansk remains in Russian hands, Moscow only controls 60% of Donetsk.

Seven months after Russian forces invaded Ukraine from the north, east and south, war is still raging on front lines in all four areas. The capital of the southern region of Zaporizhzhia is firmly under the control of Ukraine's government, and a counter-offensive is under way in Kherson.

Although Russian-appointed officials have been calling for annexation for several months, Ukraine's series of military successes in September appear to have forced the Kremlin's hand.

The Ukrainian army has recaptured large swathes of the north-east and on Thursday said its forces were encircling Russian troops in the strategically important city of Lyman, in Donetsk.

Last week, Vladimir Putin announced a military call-up and threatened to use all means at his disposal, including nuclear weapons, to defend what he considered Russian land. By annexing occupied areas of Ukraine, he will be able to argue that Russian territory is coming under attack from Western weapons, in the hope that some governments may halt their military aid to Kyiv.

However, Ukraine's foreign minister has warned the sham votes will not have any influence on the battlefield.

Mr Putin has admitted that mistakes have been made in his drive to mobilise hundreds of thousands of Russians to bolster his troops on the front lines. Some 2,400 protesters have been arrested in dozens of cities and there has been an exodus of Russian men streaming across the border.

Kazakhstan alone reported 98,000 arrivals by Tuesday, and there have been long queues on the border with Georgia. From Friday, Finland has announced it will significantly restrict Russians entering for tourism or for onward travel to other EU countries.

BBC

 

[Robert]

There are sheep who think Russia blew up their own expensive pipelines during a time of global financial crisis. The idea that Russia would destroy one of, if not the single biggest economic assets is so absurd that it makes me laugh.

Who, then?

 

[Technics 1210]

If they gave him the means to do it. What part are you failing to understand? Afghanistan aided and abeted Bin Laden. They helped train his army to attack

Bin Laden also organised terrorist attacks from Saudi, was funded by Saudis, in USA, prior to 9/11 - why didn't NATO wage war on Saudi? Heck, OBL was an ally of USA/CIA during the war in Afghanistan in the 80s.

Which part are you failing to understand? Afghanistan was an illegal war, and an excuse to extend the JC alliance ideology on the pretext of war.

 

[Abel Reames]

Bin Laden also organised terrorist attacks from Saudi, was funded by Saudis, in USA, prior to 9/11 - why didn't NATO wage war on Saudi? Heck, OBL was an ally of USA/CIA during the war in Afghanistan in the 80s.

Which part are you failing to understand? Afghanistan was an illegal war, and an excuse to extend the JC alliance ideology on the pretext of war.

The way I remember it was that OBL and the Taliban had an agreement. As long as OBL and Al-Qaieda got rid of Amar Shah Massoud the Taliban would give refuge and sanctuary to OBL.

Amar Shah Massoud was assassinated on 9th September two days before 9/11.

The USA differed to say the UK as to the response was military whereas the IRA attacks were treated with a police response and not army.

 

[bones]

Who, then?

The US, either through a proxy or directly themselves. They have a history for being responsible for these types of things.

Not sure how anyone can believe the Russians would do it because whenever they've wanted to stop gas supply they've done it, either directly or using maintenance as an excuse.

 

[cpleigh]

Bin Laden also organised terrorist attacks from Saudi, was funded by Saudis, in USA, prior to 9/11 - why didn't NATO wage war on Saudi? Heck, OBL was an ally of USA/CIA during the war in Afghanistan in the 80s.

Which part are you failing to understand? Afghanistan was an illegal war, and an excuse to extend the JC alliance ideology on the pretext of war.

do you ignore things on purpose? i think you do. Did the Saudis build army barracks for OBL?

The US demanded the Taliban turned OBL over after the Yemen ship attack. They refused. They then allowed him to mobilise and train an army in Afghanistan with the sole purpose of attacking the US.

After 9/11 the US once again demanded they turn him over... again the Taliban refused.

 

[cpleigh]

The US, either through a proxy or directly themselves. They have a history for being responsible for these types of things.

Not sure how anyone can believe the Russians would do it because whenever they've wanted to stop gas supply they've done it, either directly or using maintenance as an excuse.

Colour me shocked that people don't believe and suspect a regime that did all of the following (and denied them all)..

Shoot down a passenger plane
State assination with poison (multiple times)
Invaded at least 2 of its neighbours
Murdered the opposition leader outside of the Kremlin
Bombed an apt complex in their own capital city

 

[sweep_shot]

do you ignore things on purpose? i think you do. Did the Saudis build army barracks for OBL?

The US demanded the Taliban turned OBL over after the Yemen ship attack. They refused. They then allowed him to mobilise and train an army in Afghanistan with the sole purpose of attacking the US.

After 9/11 the US once again demanded they turn him over... again the Taliban refused.

Why are you so easily dismissing the inside job theory? You believe in official 9/11 story. Don't you?

Check this out:

A Taliban spokesman said there was “no proof” that Osama bin Laden was involved in the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

Reference: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/08/26/taliban-bin-laden/.

 

[sweep_shot]

Colour me shocked that people don't believe and suspect a regime that did all of the following (and denied them all)..

Shoot down a passenger plane
State assination with poison (multiple times)
Invaded at least 2 of its neighbours
Murdered the opposition leader outside of the Kremlin
Bombed an apt complex in their own capital city

Americans shot down a plane too (Iran Air Flight 655).

Americans nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

America destabilized and invaded so many countries.

Do you want me to give you more examples?

 

[Technics 1210]

do you ignore things on purpose? i think you do. Did the Saudis build army barracks for OBL?

The US demanded the Taliban turned OBL over after the Yemen ship attack. They refused. They then allowed him to mobilise and train an army in Afghanistan with the sole purpose of attacking the US.

After 9/11 the US once again demanded they turn him over... again the Taliban refused.

This millennial remix.

Your logic is flawed since the IRA and a white Christian country (Northern Ireland) did exactly what you accuse Afghanistan and OBL of.

No surprises, all is fair in the Judeo-Christian alliance against all non-JC and non-White humans around the globe.

How convenient though, you deliberately ignore pre 9/11 terrorism in Amreeka carried out by the so called 'Afghani', OBL - though I do not blame you as you were not born then.

You have no answer or defence to the racist, fascist, and hypocritical warmongering organisation, NATO, you defend. You even support NATO's incompetence in allowing Muslim genocide in Europe.

So laughable is your hypocrisy you call the Iraq war illegal but defend Blair.

So glad you are having sleepless nights over Putin, you and your ilk thoroughly deserve it after endorsing illegal wars under the guise of NATO.

 

[Technics 1210]

Americans shot down a plane too (Iran Air Flight 655).

Americans nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

America destabilized and invaded so many countries.

Do you want me to give you more examples?

He will Google the Iranian plane shot down by Amreeka, then change his tune.

Millennials are just not educated with the facts, unless from TikTok of course.

 

[bones]

He will Google the Iranian plane shot down by Amreeka, then change his tune.

Millennials are just not educated with the facts, unless from TikTok of course.

Before long he'll explain to us how Horishima and Nagasaki are Kremlin propaganda.

 

[Technics 1210]

Before long he'll explain to us how Horishima and Nagasaki are Kremlin propaganda.

No doubt about it, NATO apologists will defend and justify the use of nuclear weapons when it means protecting their JC ideology, but when another nuclear powers talk the same game, the same apologists label them terrorists.

 

[James]

Americans shot down a plane too (Iran Air Flight 655).

Americans nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

America destabilized and invaded so many countries.

Do you want me to give you more examples?

This of course is all correct.

It doesn’t mean that Russia did not do some, or all, of the things listed by [MENTION=145891]cpleigh[/MENTION].

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The real problems of this war are that the justifications are all ideological:

Russia invaded Ukraine!
The Ukranians want Freedom!
Putin is a madman!
Communism is evil!

While I don't have any issues with this reasoning (other than our own war-mongering) the problems the war creates are very real and material. Ordinary people are paying a very high price to wage this proxy war. It's the last thing we needed coming out of Covid. I hope there's an endgame which will make it worthwhile, because it doesn't seem like it with the govt set to fall at the next election.

 

[Technics 1210]

Here's the thing, if NATO reached out to Putin for peace or appeased peace, and then Putin waged war, then the world would be supporting NATO members and this thread would have a different path/context/debate.

But no, it is the opposite! NATO wanted war, ignored Putin's olive branches, and now worse, the UK economy is in doldrums. I do not care about EU, hope they go bankrupt!

 

[Technics 1210]

This of course is all correct.

It doesn’t mean that Russia did not do some, or all, of the things listed by [MENTION=145891]cpleigh[/MENTION].

Sorry mate disagree, but CP's point was that Russia did all of those things without knowing that the USA is guilty of those very points. Case of painting Russia as the sole provocator.

 

[Robert]

The US, either through a proxy or directly themselves. They have a history for being responsible for these types of things.

Not sure how anyone can believe the Russians would do it because whenever they've wanted to stop gas supply they've done it, either directly or using maintenance as an excuse.

You think the Americans would sabotage their allies’ infrastructure. That’s bonkers.

I can’t think of a reason for Russians to do it, though EU clearly thinks they did.

 

[Technics 1210]

Amreeka uses Europe as their proxy poodles, so yes, Amreeka sabotaging the Nord pipeline is well within the realms of possiblity.

Don't believe me? Who destroyed the European banking sector? Yup, Amreekans. Who is increasing the cost of living in Europe? Yup Amreekans by raising Fed rates.

 

[Technics 1210]

Oh, who shut down and sanctioned Russian gas supplies in Europe, causing the biggest energy and survival crisis since WW2? You guessed it, Amreeka.

Save this Special Relationship malakary - it never existed, especially when Amreeka sent British Troops on the front lines of Iraq and Afghanistan, while Amreekans were counting Billions in profit.

Europe is Amreeka's lapdog/poodle/voodoo doll - take your pick.

 

[bones]

You think the Americans would sabotage their allies’ infrastructure. That’s bonkers.

With the help of the Poles yes I do. Not only do I think the Americans did it, I think every intelligence agency in the world knows they did it now.

The saddest part about all of this is how utterly powerless the Germans are, seems like the Germans had no idea what was going on and now they are going to become slaves to American policy.

If anyone think the Russians did it, you have to question their IQ.

 

[Technics 1210]

With the help of the Poles yes I do. Not only do I think the Americans did it, I think every intelligence agency in the world knows they did it now.

The saddest part about all of this is how utterly powerless the Germans are, seems like the Germans had no idea what was going on and now they are going to become slaves to American policy.

If anyone think the Russians did it, you have to question their IQ.

I think the saddest part is that how utterly naive NATO apologists are. They seem to think Amreeka has good intentions for Europeans and can do no wrong!

Europeans have been slaves to Amreekan policy since post WW2; Europeans will not admit it in public but deep down they know its the truth. This is why France and Germany are a locking horns with Amreeka on Russian sanctions.

NATO apologists think Amreeka cares about Europeans freezing to death this winter? No, Amreeka only cares about goading Russia, into a proxy war, and its Europeans that will pay the price!

I feel no pity towards such folk who are brainwashed into thinking Amreeka cares about Europe. This is the price they pay for worshipping MSM.

 

[cpleigh]

Sorry mate disagree, but CP's point was that Russia did all of those things without knowing that the USA is guilty of those very points. Case of painting Russia as the sole provocator.

you keep on acting like i'm 12. I know the US did all of the above. They were wrong.. and so are Russia.

Where you seem to act like 'well the US did it, they are EVIL but it's ok for Russia to do it'

 

[Technics 1210]

Remember, initially, Amreeka did not want to get involved in WW1 and WW2 - Amreeka does not care about Europe.

We all know how and why Amreeka was involved.

 

[Technics 1210]

you keep on acting like i'm 12. I know the US did all of the above. They were wrong.. and so are Russia.

Where you seem to act like 'well the US did it, they are EVIL but it's ok for Russia to do it'

I was spot on though, you had no idea that Amreeka had shot down an Iranian commercial airliner.

I do not blame you, I blame TikTok.

Have fun with your new found hypocrisy.