Russia invades Ukraine

[the Great Khan]

Ah I see. I said something similar with regard to Churchill - he was a monster, but we needed our own monster to fight a worse monster.

I have repeatedly stated on PP that I think the invasion of Iraq was a horrible mistake. I supported it at the time. But my views change as the evidence changes.

The “veneer of legal speak” refers to Blair - there is no UK or ICC legislation that could be brought to bear on him. The Law Lords decided this.

If you dig out the thread on Palestine you will see me criticise Israel’s actions, in terms of the Geneva Convention, chapter and verse.

Clear where I stand?

I'm curious why did you support the invasion of a sovereign country that had not invaded your country or threatened to do anything like that. I mean you would ha e been in your 30's with access to information e.g. the order of battle of the iraqi army, the condition of his airforce etc. You would also surely have known what could happen if a centralised govt would fall in a tribal country? Surely? Also do you now in hindsight believe that resistance to the invasion was legitimate?

I believe you have now clarified your stance vis a vis Palestine.

 

[Technics 1210]

I'm curious why did you support the invasion of a sovereign country that had not invaded your country or threatened to do anything like that. I mean you would ha e been in your 30's with access to information e.g. the order of battle of the iraqi army, the condition of his airforce etc. You would also surely have known what could happen if a centralised govt would fall in a tribal country? Surely? Also do you now in hindsight believe that resistance to the invasion was legitimate?

I believe you have now clarified your stance vis a vis Palestine.

And to add, millions in the UK protesting against the war in Iraq based on what was clear at the time, fabricated evidence.

 

[KingKhanWC]

How’s the weather in Kiev ? Maybe more rain forecast.

 

[bones]

As suspected, much of NATO is running low on weapons and ammunition.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...n-t-get-arms-fast-enough-as-stockpiles-shrink

 

[Technics 1210]

How’s the weather in Kiev ? Maybe more rain forecast.

They will not need heating, that’s for sure.

 

[sweep_shot]

As suspected, much of NATO is running low on weapons and ammunition.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...n-t-get-arms-fast-enough-as-stockpiles-shrink

Bound to happen.

Looks like America wants more debt.

 

[sweep_shot]

I think Ukrainians are now understanding how Iraqis felt during America's shock and awe attack. Russians seem to have taken their gloves off.

MSM was supporting American attack then but they are condemning Russian attack now (example of hypocrisy and double standard).

 

[Technics 1210]

I think Ukrainians are now understanding how Iraqis felt during America's shock and awe attack. Russians seem to have taken their gloves off.

MSM was supporting American attack then but they are condemning Russian attack now (example of hypocrisy and double standard).

I would go one step further, it is obvious EU nations feel they are being played like cheap fiddles by the Amreekans but poor souls cannot speak out.

Ukrainians and EU members are feeling the pain, especially after the economic sanctions.

This is a fraction of what Iraqis, Afghanis, Libyans, Syrians, South Americans, Vietnamese, and so on had to endure.

 

[SalimBhai]

Ukrainian army’s commander-in-chief poses with swastika bracelet




Zoom in image to see the Nazi sign.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="uk" dir="ltr">На нашій землі триває боротьба, масштабів якої світ не бачив із часів Другої світової. Ми не маємо права перекласти цю війну на наших дітей. Ворога потрібно знищити тут і зараз. І ми це можемо зробити.<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/valeriizaluzhnyi?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#valeriizaluzhnyi</a> <a href="https://t.co/8PsVOD9iiN">pic.twitter.com/8PsVOD9iiN</a></p>— Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (@CinC_AFU) <a href="https://twitter.com/CinC_AFU/status/1578083916296192000?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 6, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Spoiler

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="qme" dir="ltr"> <a href="https://t.co/nywFC8B5XQ">pic.twitter.com/nywFC8B5XQ</a></p>— Dartsgame | Gokai Purple (@CubeBoom1) <a href="https://twitter.com/CubeBoom1/status/1579184521328852992?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 9, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This turned out to be a total lie.

 

[SalimBhai]

Liberals will keep harping on about Iraq was a terrible mistake etc, but NEVER will they CONDEMN the Christian white leaders like Bush and Blair, nor will they CONDEMN the actions of Western governments in public.

It goes further, you will hear Liberals say what is happening in Palestine is horrible, but NEVER will they CONDEM Isreal in public.

Yet when Russia et al commit crimes agsint humanity, these same liberals come out in their droves to CONDEM Putin and Russia in public.

This is the difference.

So do not fall for the hollow cries and concerns of Liberals when the West commit war crimes and crimes against humanity. It's all a hypocritical and deceptive front.

Have you been living under a rock. There have been plenty of anti Iraq war rallies, marches. There have been plenty of end there occupation in Palestine rallies. They have not been effective. Just like there have been plenty of rallies against the Iranian regime. But also they have not been effective because the regime is too strong. There have been plenty of stop the war in Ukraine . But they have not been effective as Russia is too strong at the moment. So please stop with your utter nonsense .

 

[Pakpak]

Agreed. I think Ukraine can recover all lost areas west of the Dnieper but beyond that…. no real chance. They should stop and fortify the new border.

But the insurgency in Crimea will continue.

100 percent insurgency should continue as Russians are occupying their land.

However I wonder when the same insurgencies were continuing in nations occupied by the US why were those insurgents called terrorists?

Food for thought.

 

[KingKhanWC]

They will not need heating, that’s for sure.

Putin should get the Noble prize for keeping Ukraine Warm.

You have posters on here who were cheering the terrorist attack on a bridge which killed 3 people. Posts still stand. Imagine if someone cheered an attack on UK or USA?

This is where their true colours come to light.
[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION]. You wrote WE will demiliatrise Russia. )

1. Who is we? Pakistan, England or Australia? As a Pakistani, thinking youre English , living in Australia?

2. You wrote Russia has lost months ago, ran out of missiles. How does todays events show the nonsense you have been spouting?

 

[KingKhanWC]

100 percent insurgency should continue as Russians are occupying their land.

However I wonder when the same insurgencies were continuing in nations occupied by the US why were those insurgents called terrorists?

Food for thought.

What is your view, as you support it? Are you supporting freedom fighters or terrorists?


Its not their land anylonger, the people were always Russian and will always want to be with Russia, as they have voted to do so.

 

[SalimBhai]

Question to king, technics, bones and sweep shot
Let me ask suppose usa/ west was not involved in
iraq, LIbya, Palestine and and list goes on ( also I agree they should have not been involved) Would you still be cheering Russia in this conflict?

 

[Technics 1210]

Putin should get the Noble prize for keeping Ukraine Warm.

You have posters on here who were cheering the terrorist attack on a bridge which killed 3 people. Posts still stand. Imagine if someone cheered an attack on UK or USA?

This is where their true colours come to light.
[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION]. You wrote WE will demiliatrise Russia. )

1. Who is we? Pakistan, England or Australia? As a Pakistani, thinking youre English , living in Australia?

2. You wrote Russia has lost months ago, ran out of missiles. How does todays events show the nonsense you have been spouting?

He is half Bangladeshi, not even Pakistani.

Putin's patience is being tested for too long. This war is 22 years in the making, and at every juncture Putin has offered peace talks, solutions, and has extended olive branches to the West.

Sadly the Europeans have zero power let alone decision making authority as European nations, NATO members to be precise, are subservient to their master's command - Amreeka.

Amreeka is funding and promoting this global proxy war; Europeans are too cold to feel it let alone see it. The cracks within the EU are widening, with Belgium and Hungary already opposing next round of sanctions. Italy have a new nationalist government, France is on the verge of another revolution, meanwhile UK's special relationship with Amreeka is paying dividends in body bags, energy crisis, weak GBP, and higher interest rates.

No one on this thread who supports Ukraine would dare fight for Ukraine or house Ukrainian refugees, nope, they will however oil their keyboards and take social media by storm because this is how they've been brainwashed and indoctrinated to do so. Press, trigger, and perform.

All it takes is one word of peace from the West, just one word, but no, the West and their NATO/Liberal bots prefer the blood of non Europeans instead.

The silver lining is of course, their behaviour proves there is no such thing as freedom of choice or thought in the West, that is until the spell of Western braineashing is lifted from them.

Focus, Hocus, Pocus.

 

[Pakpak]

What is your view, as you support it? Are you supporting freedom fighters or terrorists?


Its not their land anylonger, the people were always Russian and will always want to be with Russia, as they have voted to do so.

For me the West can't have it both ways

Either theyre all insurgents or they're terrorists.

Crimea was always Russian, the only time it wasnt was when the Soviets awareded it to Ukraine. Had the same bridge being blown up in Palestine or Iraq everyone would say terrorism


I'm not for the war. I've lived in Eastern Europe and for me it's devastating to see this carnage. If a Ukrainian wants to stand up and fight in Kherson good for him. But I'm sick of seeing the double standards. Brown people terrorists when fighting occupiers. But Westerners are insurgents.

Either one or the other

 

[bones]

Question to king, technics, bones and sweep shot
Let me ask suppose usa/ west was not involved in
iraq, LIbya, Palestine and and list goes on ( also I agree they should have not been involved) Would you still be cheering Russia in this conflict?

It is because of the west this war is happening.

 

[SalimBhai]

He is half Bangladeshi, not even Pakistani.

Putin's patience is being tested for too long. This war is 22 years in the making, and at every juncture Putin has offered peace talks, solutions, and has extended olive branches to the West.

Sadly the Europeans have zero power let alone decision making authority as European nations, NATO members to be precise, are subservient to their master's command - Amreeka.

Amreeka is funding and promoting this global proxy war; Europeans are too cold to feel it let alone see it. The cracks within the EU are widening, with Belgium and Hungary already opposing next round of sanctions. Italy have a new nationalist government, France is on the verge of another revolution, meanwhile UK's special relationship with Amreeka is paying dividends in body bags, energy crisis, weak GBP, and higher interest rates.

No one on this thread who supports Ukraine would dare fight for Ukraine or house Ukrainian refugees, nope, they will however oil their keyboards and take social media by storm because this is how they've been brainwashed and indoctrinated to do so. Press, trigger, and perform.

All it takes is one word of peace from the West, just one word, but no, the West and their NATO/Liberal bots prefer the blood of non Europeans instead.

The silver lining is of course, their behaviour proves there is no such thing as freedom of choice or thought in the West, that is until the spell of Western braineashing is lifted from them.

Focus, Hocus, Pocus.

By the same token would you go fight in Russia as you are a Russian supporter . What does being being bengali and NOT EVEN PAKISTANI mean and what does that apply to.

 

[SalimBhai]

Forget the west. Would you still support Russia. Because all the reasons you give are you support the Russians is to get back to the west. What if west was not in the picture. Would you support the Russians then.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Question to king, technics, bones and sweep shot
Let me ask suppose usa/ west was not involved in
iraq, LIbya, Palestine and and list goes on ( also I agree they should have not been involved) Would you still be cheering Russia in this conflict?

Suppose Aliens came down to occupy Isle of Man...

You cant make up daft scenarios. Russia is liberating the Russians in the East, who were being killed in their thousands for 7+ years. Its a bit different to invading for looting and imperialism.

 

[KingKhanWC]

He is half Bangladeshi, not even Pakistani.

Putin's patience is being tested for too long. This war is 22 years in the making, and at every juncture Putin has offered peace talks, solutions, and has extended olive branches to the West.

Sadly the Europeans have zero power let alone decision making authority as European nations, NATO members to be precise, are subservient to their master's command - Amreeka.

Amreeka is funding and promoting this global proxy war; Europeans are too cold to feel it let alone see it. The cracks within the EU are widening, with Belgium and Hungary already opposing next round of sanctions. Italy have a new nationalist government, France is on the verge of another revolution, meanwhile UK's special relationship with Amreeka is paying dividends in body bags, energy crisis, weak GBP, and higher interest rates.

No one on this thread who supports Ukraine would dare fight for Ukraine or house Ukrainian refugees, nope, they will however oil their keyboards and take social media by storm because this is how they've been brainwashed and indoctrinated to do so. Press, trigger, and perform.

All it takes is one word of peace from the West, just one word, but no, the West and their NATO/Liberal bots prefer the blood of non Europeans instead.

The silver lining is of course, their behaviour proves there is no such thing as freedom of choice or thought in the West, that is until the spell of Western braineashing is lifted from them.

Focus, Hocus, Pocus.

Some thoughts show living in an alternate universe. Not even the biggest Nato warmonger or John Bolton would suggest Russia can be demilitarised . I guess living far away in Australia and not being sure of identity could cause this.

You are correct, the west could end this conflict pretty quickly but have many times stated they will support Ukraine to the last Ukrainian.

None of these cheerleaders care for Ukrainians, as you say they wont house them, they wont even dontate to them. Its a colonial mindset, brainwashed through years of history showing 'we are the good guys' so we can rape and plunder, but you cant defend yourself.

 

[KingKhanWC]

For me the West can't have it both ways

Either theyre all insurgents or they're terrorists.

Crimea was always Russian, the only time it wasnt was when the Soviets awareded it to Ukraine. Had the same bridge being blown up in Palestine or Iraq everyone would say terrorism


I'm not for the war. I've lived in Eastern Europe and for me it's devastating to see this carnage. If a Ukrainian wants to stand up and fight in Kherson good for him. But I'm sick of seeing the double standards. Brown people terrorists when fighting occupiers. But Westerners are insurgents.

Either one or the other

I think people have moved on from this rhetoric, the West has little to no credibility due to their hypocrisy and bloodshedding over the last few decades. This is why MOST of the World are not supporting the Wests quest to bleed Russia, they will not harm themselves for Europeans or Americans.

Who is a terrorists, what is legal or not has gone out of the window, as US uses laws when it suits them and not when it doesnt.

Are you aware of American Servicemembers Protection Act of 2002?

 

[Technics 1210]

Some thoughts show living in an alternate universe. Not even the biggest Nato warmonger or John Bolton would suggest Russia can be demilitarised . I guess living far away in Australia and not being sure of identity could cause this.

You are correct, the west could end this conflict pretty quickly but have many times stated they will support Ukraine to the last Ukrainian.

None of these cheerleaders care for Ukrainians, as you say they wont house them, they wont even dontate to them. Its a colonial mindset, brainwashed through years of history showing 'we are the good guys' so we can rape and plunder, but you cant defend yourself.

Decades of indoctrination, even now, and the underlying message has always been - "White, is Right."

The Aussie cheer leaders can stay put, the closest they got to any semblance of a war is on a Cricket pitch.

As for the Pro Ukrainian Brits, these same Brits were ridiculing Ukraine of its racism and Nazism before the war, not only this, same people did not want Ukraine to join the EU or NATO! Now look, after Feb 2022, they not only support Ukrainian racists and Nazis, but Ukraine's EU/NATO membership too, simply because they cannot stand an Orthodox Christian playing by the Western playbook. If this isn't being subservient to ZMSM and Western propaganda, then I do not know what is.

Still, I am glad there are some people who can think for themselves and make their own minds up.

Speaking of which, NATO bots have been awfully quiet today. MSM feed must be slow.

 

[Technics 1210]

This is the price worth paying - according to warmongering Liberals.

-----------

The cost of long-term borrowing for the Government rose to its highest level since the Bank of England launched its £65bn pension bailout, as analysts warned the jump signalled further market turmoil could be on the cards.

Yields on 30-year gilts rose above 4.5pc, bringing them to their highest since going over 5pc just before the Bank’s intervention on 28 September. 10-year gilt yields also rose by 2.5 basis points at 4.25pc.

The surge in borrowing costs came as the Bank announced it will ramp up its market intervention before it closes on Friday. It will also launch a scheme to provide liquidity to banks whose clients are struggling with sudden cash calls.

Its decision comes after eight auctions so far in which the Bank offered to buy £40bn worth of bonds but only succeeded in buying £5bn worth. The Bank has been purchasing the gilts using newly created money in a process known as quantitative easing.

DT

 

[KingKhanWC]

Decades of indoctrination, even now, and the underlying message has always been - "White, is Right."

The Aussie cheer leaders can stay put, the closest they got to any semblance of a war is on a Cricket pitch.

As for the Pro Ukrainian Brits, these same Brits were ridiculing Ukraine of its racism and Nazism before the war, not only this, same people did not want Ukraine to join the EU or NATO! Now look, after Feb 2022, they not only support Ukrainian racists and Nazis, but Ukraine's EU/NATO membership too, simply because they cannot stand an Orthodox Christian playing by the Western playbook. If this isn't being subservient to ZMSM and Western propaganda, then I do not know what is.

Still, I am glad there are some people who can think for themselves and make their own minds up.

Speaking of which, NATO bots have been awfully quiet today. MSM feed must be slow.

This is something you wont hear much of in MSM. A powerful Russian Orthodox nation is a worry for these Godless, atheist, liberal as in I will follow my desires nations.

Nato cheerleaders kept saying Russia has lost or Putin will fall out of some Disneyland window but today reality has hit home.

Zelensky took out all the opposition knowing when this time came, they would be demanding an end to the war but the Zionist/Nato puppet is doing his warmongering job well. I doubt he is even in Ukraine, most likely Poland.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Meet Sergey Surovikin - Commander of Russian forces in Ukraine, given the role Oct 8. Oct 10, Ukraine sees big strikes.



If Nato/West wont make Peace, the best alternative is for Russia to end the war this way.

 

[Pakpak]

I think people have moved on from this rhetoric, the West has little to no credibility due to their hypocrisy and bloodshedding over the last few decades. This is why MOST of the World are not supporting the Wests quest to bleed Russia, they will not harm themselves for Europeans or Americans.

Who is a terrorists, what is legal or not has gone out of the window, as US uses laws when it suits them and not when it doesnt.

Are you aware of American Servicemembers Protection Act of 2002?

I have lived in Eastern Europe. Travelled in Eastern Europe. Parts of Pakistan are less corrupt and more developed than Eastern Europe, you'd think Nawaz is a hero in comparison. The only reason for Eastern European nations to be allowed into NATO and EU are not to benefit their citizens but to wind up the Russians.

As for the bold bit: Interesting as that is not how it is ever labelled in the media, if you went by the media you'd think the entire world is up in arms against Russia when in truth the collective population of the nations that abstained or opposed the West in the UN motions accounted for more than 60% of the world's population.

For me, I have been always honest. Pakistan had a good relationship with Ukraine as many of our tank parts came from it and they backed us when they could. I also remember Russia shamelessly jumping onto the war on terror bakwaas and raping their way through Chechnya. I would rather this war not exist, at all. I find the loss of life from civilians in Ukraine and the young Russian men thrown into the grinder pointless and abhorrent.

However I have had enough of the hypocrisies. The West, UK the most, is selling the Saudis weapons who are massacring Yemenis. I have had Yemeni friends who have lost family in Yemen from Saudi attacks. Yet its all good here. NATO vading into Libya. All good. The mass murder in Iraq. All good. The daily killings in Palestine. All good.


Its because of these double standards, and not because of some Russia TV brainwashing across the world as BBC alleges, noone either supports the West or is deeply suspicious of their motives.


I would rather Russia go back to its borders and Ukraine declares itself neutral, just like Finland had before this war and just like Austria had for decades.

 

[the Great Khan]

For me the West can't have it both ways

Either theyre all insurgents or they're terrorists.

Crimea was always Russian, the only time it wasnt was when the Soviets awareded it to Ukraine. Had the same bridge being blown up in Palestine or Iraq everyone would say terrorism


I'm not for the war. I've lived in Eastern Europe and for me it's devastating to see this carnage. If a Ukrainian wants to stand up and fight in Kherson good for him. But I'm sick of seeing the double standards. Brown people terrorists when fighting occupiers. But Westerners are insurgents.

Either one or the other

That's not true. It's been Muslim far longer than not.first as part of the ilkhanate and then as part of the ottoman empire..Long before Russia became a power. Odessa was also a key Muslim city for many years...

 

[the Great Khan]

On the main subject this war needs to end now..we need a ceasefire..innocent people are dying and there are massive ramifications for poor people all over the world..the West needs to call for an immediate ceasefire and start negotiations..

 

[KingKhanWC]

I have lived in Eastern Europe. Travelled in Eastern Europe. Parts of Pakistan are less corrupt and more developed than Eastern Europe, you'd think Nawaz is a hero in comparison. The only reason for Eastern European nations to be allowed into NATO and EU are not to benefit their citizens but to wind up the Russians.

As for the bold bit: Interesting as that is not how it is ever labelled in the media, if you went by the media you'd think the entire world is up in arms against Russia when in truth the collective population of the nations that abstained or opposed the West in the UN motions accounted for more than 60% of the world's population.

For me, I have been always honest. Pakistan had a good relationship with Ukraine as many of our tank parts came from it and they backed us when they could. I also remember Russia shamelessly jumping onto the war on terror bakwaas and raping their way through Chechnya. I would rather this war not exist, at all. I find the loss of life from civilians in Ukraine and the young Russian men thrown into the grinder pointless and abhorrent.

However I have had enough of the hypocrisies. The West, UK the most, is selling the Saudis weapons who are massacring Yemenis. I have had Yemeni friends who have lost family in Yemen from Saudi attacks. Yet its all good here. NATO vading into Libya. All good. The mass murder in Iraq. All good. The daily killings in Palestine. All good.


Its because of these double standards, and not because of some Russia TV brainwashing across the world as BBC alleges, noone either supports the West or is deeply suspicious of their motives.


I would rather Russia go back to its borders and Ukraine declares itself neutral, just like Finland had before this war and just like Austria had for decades.

The West got too confident, arrogant thinking they can act in anyway, they are the most powerful etc etc.

This is one reason, I am pleased someone is standing up to their bully tactics. Russia is not Iraq or Libya and imo we have to thank Russia for not allowing Syria to fall, otherwise we'd be seeing a war with Iran right now.

Chechen war was started before Putin, when USA backed them against Soviets. Putin has made peace with Chechens now, Grozny is a pretty nice city now, rebuilt by Putin.

The problem is the public in general has no clue of basics of geo-politics.

You will see daily calls of War Crimes against Russia.

Yet Yanks have American Servicemembers Protection Act of 2002.

This means, any American who may be detained in the Hague for war crimes, the US has a RIGHT TO INVADE THE HAGUE! )

 

[SalimBhai]

The West got too confident, arrogant thinking they can act in anyway, they are the most powerful etc etc.

This is one reason, I am pleased someone is standing up to their bully tactics. Russia is not Iraq or Libya and imo we have to thank Russia for not allowing Syria to fall, otherwise we'd be seeing a war with Iran right now.

Chechen war was started before Putin, when USA backed them against Soviets. Putin has made peace with Chechens now, Grozny is a pretty nice city now, rebuilt by Putin.

The problem is the public in general has no clue of basics of geo-politics.

You will see daily calls of War Crimes against Russia.

Yet Yanks have American Servicemembers Protection Act of 2002.

This means, any American who may be detained in the Hague for war crimes, the US has a RIGHT TO INVADE THE HAGUE! )

That ludicrous act was passed by two congressman REPUBLICANS from Texas and another state and Signed By a Republican President. It A joke of an ACT, but not liberals but conservatives creation.

 

[KingKhanWC]

On the main subject this war needs to end now..we need a ceasefire..innocent people are dying and there are massive ramifications for poor people all over the world..the West needs to call for an immediate ceasefire and start negotiations..

Western governments want a war a big war, a nuclear war is fine for them too. Billionaires and even millionaries are now buying bunkers or building them near their homes. I was suspicious when Boris was building a new £9million nuclear bunker in the early days of Covid.

The people can stop this by coming out in huge numbers but sadly the public in the UK is mostly dumbed down, brainwashed, too concerned with Eastenders or football.

Boris went to Ukraine to stop the peace talks which were accepted by both Russia and Ukraine.

Why do they want a huge war is the question now? Not any ceasefire.

 

[SalimBhai]

Ok, Why in your opinion do you thin k they want war? Serious question. What do they benefit from it.

 

[Robert]

I'm curious why did you support the invasion of a sovereign country that had not invaded your country or threatened to do anything like that. I mean you would ha e been in your 30's with access to information e.g. the order of battle of the iraqi army, the condition of his airforce etc. You would also surely have known what could happen if a centralised govt would fall in a tribal country? Surely? Also do you now in hindsight believe that resistance to the invasion was legitimate?

I believe you have now clarified your stance vis a vis Palestine.

Actually I did not. I fell for the neocon idea that the tribal society would default to democracy when the despot was removed, as happened in Turkey under Ataturk.

More fool me.

I read USMC General Smedley Butler’s book “War is a Racket”. Old Smedley likened himself to an enforcer for the Capones and Luganos of Wall Street. All the neocons are oil men, I noted.

All sixty Lib Dem MPs had voted against the attack. I didn’t understand their concern. Surely that party of teachers and scientists thought it was an opportunity to free people from a monster, who had nerve-gassed the Kurds and threw dissenters into an industrial shredder?

Now I understand why. Dear old Charlie Kennedy and his crew were right and I was wrong.

I read an article in The Lancet suggesting that total enhanced morbidity due to the invasion - in terms of infrastructure failure and collapse of law and order was in the region of 700,000.

Was resistance legitimate? Well my understanding is that some of the B’aath Party officials just wanted to retain their authority. Other insurgents were Islamists from overseas. While some insurgents were ordinary patriotic Iraqis who wanted what they saw as an occupying army off their streets.

I’ll just mention an ex-colleague - retired Army man, whose boy died in an IED blast in Iraq. Hated Blair like poison for getting us into the neocon’s needless war. It would have happened without Blair, but he could have kept out of this one. It cost us respect in the world. And a lot of British lads died, or were maimed or lost their sanity for no gain.

 

[Robert]

Western governments want a war a big war, a nuclear war is fine for them too. Billionaires and even millionaries are now buying bunkers or building them near their homes. I was suspicious when Boris was building a new £9million nuclear bunker in the early days of Covid.

No. I explained this to you. In nuclear war we *all* die. Billionaires too. Money won’t protect them from Sun-level power released inside our biosphere. Even if it did, everything would be gone. They would rule a freezing radioactive desert world.

 

[SalimBhai]

Nobody wants a nuclear war. Nothing to gain.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Ok, Why in your opinion do you thin k they want war? Serious question. What do they benefit from it.

Ive been told to keep this a secret for now.

No. I explained this to you. In nuclear war we *all* die. Billionaires too. Money won’t protect them from Sun-level power released inside our biosphere. Even if it did, everything would be gone. They would rule a freezing radioactive desert world.

Yes but this your opinion Robert, I was talking of western governments which you are not a part of.

One can survive a nuclear war if you have enough money. But the world remaining wouldn't be worth surviving.

If you believe west doesnt want WW3 then why are they risking it for some areas of Europe near the black sea?

 

[Technics 1210]

On the main subject this war needs to end now..we need a ceasefire..innocent people are dying and there are massive ramifications for poor people all over the world..the West needs to call for an immediate ceasefire and start negotiations..

Putin reached out for peace talks a number of times since this war started, Ukraine, oops, Ameeeka, said no.

 

[Pakpak]

That's not true. It's been Muslim far longer than not.first as part of the ilkhanate and then as part of the ottoman empire..Long before Russia became a power. Odessa was also a key Muslim city for many years...

Constantinople was Christian too. Its not now. I get your point but history doesn't work like that.

My point was when it comes to Russia and Ukraine , Crimea was part of Russia until Soviet leadership gave it to Ukraine

 

[Robert]

Ive been told to keep this a secret for now.

Yes but this your opinion Robert, I was talking of western governments which you are not a part of.

One can survive a nuclear war if you have enough money. But the world remaining wouldn't be worth surviving.

If you believe west doesnt want WW3 then why are they risking it for some areas of Europe near the black sea?

Because if Putin succeeds here he will try to nibble off somewhere else, such as the Baltic states or Poland. The Russian army’s dreadful underperformance in Ukraine lends me to believe that NATO will push them out in short order, but then Putin may go nuclear and the world ends.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Because if Putin succeeds here he will try to nibble off somewhere else, such as the Baltic states or Poland. The Russian army’s dreadful underperformance in Ukraine lends me to believe that NATO will push them out in short order, but then Putin may go nuclear and the world ends.

No he wont unless they attack Russia. Putin waited for 7+ years, being patient wanting to further the Minsk agreements but Azov and Ukraine kept attacking Russians in the East. He is liberating people.

Its been a great performance with only 200k to take on an Army double this, trained by Nato for years and also which has Nato nations troops inside covertly helping them.

When December arrives, its either time for Ukraine to accept a deal or to be in ruins. The time is running out.

Btw the Azov Nazi battalion is pretty much wiped out from history. Always some good in everything

 

[sweep_shot]

Btw the Azov Nazi battalion is pretty much wiped out from history. Always some good in everything

That's definitely one good thing to come out of this conflict.

I hope all the Azov Nazis have been vaporized.

 

[Junaids]

Putin should get the Noble prize for keeping Ukraine Warm.

You have posters on here who were cheering the terrorist attack on a bridge which killed 3 people. Posts still stand. Imagine if someone cheered an attack on UK or USA?

This is where their true colours come to light.
[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION]. You wrote WE will demiliatrise Russia. )

1. Who is we? Pakistan, England or Australia? As a Pakistani, thinking youre English , living in Australia?

2. You wrote Russia has lost months ago, ran out of missiles. How does todays events show the nonsense you have been spouting?

Russia has clearly run extremely low on modern missiles. They have a few dozen Kalibr cruise missiles left and are padding out their attacks with surface-to-air and ship-to-ship missiles being used as directionless terror rockets.

Today Russia did absolutely nothing impressive. They continue to lose on the battlefield and need to conserve their remaining cruise missiles for military targets.

But because they are led by an inadequate little bullying halfwit, they have squandered a fair number of the cruise missiles they have left, on what?

1. They blew up a pedestrian bridge because President Inadequate is embarrassed that his bridge has been wrecked.

2. They blew up a children's playground.

3. They blew up several cars parked in the street.

4. They broke the Rules of War by taking out civilian energy infrastructure.

By the way, it is by definition NOT a terrorist attack to disable a bridge which is used to carry soldiers, weapons and fuel that is used in an invasion. It is a legitimate and legal act of self-defence.

Any actions that Ukraine takes to protect itself from invasion is lawful, including destroying a bridge which is used for military purposes between an invading power and occupied sovereign Ukrainian territory (Crimea).

 

[Junaids]

On the main subject this war needs to end now..we need a ceasefire..innocent people are dying and there are massive ramifications for poor people all over the world..the West needs to call for an immediate ceasefire and start negotiations..

We will have a ceasefire when Russia leaves the land it unlawfully occupies, and pays for the damge it has caused.

You are blaming the victim for the effect on poor people. It's outrageous and it's offensive but it's also astonishingly stupid. You should be ashamed of yourself for posting this.

 

[KingKhanWC]

That's definitely one good thing to come out of this conflict.

I hope all the Azov Nazis have been vaporized.

Yes they fell into the trap, went all in acting like John Wayne but were wiped out , some hid in the steelworks but eventually were captured.

US and French special forces are also in Ukraine, many have been killed but because its covert, their lives lost didnt make the western news.

Here is a Nato building which was destroyed earlier.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Russia has clearly run extremely low on modern missiles. They have a few dozen Kalibr cruise missiles left and are padding out their attacks with surface-to-air and ship-to-ship missiles being used as directionless terror rockets.

Today Russia did absolutely nothing impressive. They continue to lose on the battlefield and need to conserve their remaining cruise missiles for military targets.

But because they are led by an inadequate little bullying halfwit, they have squandered a fair number of the cruise missiles they have left, on what?

1. They blew up a pedestrian bridge because President Inadequate is embarrassed that his bridge has been wrecked.

2. They blew up a children's playground.

3. They blew up several cars parked in the street.

4. They broke the Rules of War by taking out civilian energy infrastructure.

By the way, it is by definition NOT a terrorist attack to disable a bridge which is used to carry soldiers, weapons and fuel that is used in an invasion. It is a legitimate and legal act of self-defence.

Any actions that Ukraine takes to protect itself from invasion is lawful, including destroying a bridge which is used for military purposes between an invading power and occupied sovereign Ukrainian territory (Crimea).

1. The bridge attack killed civlians, yet you claim its not terrorism. What is your definition of terrorism?

2. You are repeating a broken record, how many missiles do they and how long before they run out. Please state numbers and date.

3. You only believe Russia hit 3 targets today?

4. As for Rules and War crimes, how can a US/Nato supporter have any credibiity? See earlier, US have a law which prevents any US official from being tried in the Hague, heck they will invade it if it comes to this.

Ukraine is done, as a Bangladeshi, Englishman living in Australia it wont matter to you. Get on with watching Australian rules.

 

[Junaids]

Some thoughts show living in an alternate universe. Not even the biggest Nato warmonger or John Bolton would suggest Russia can be demilitarised . I guess living far away in Australia and not being sure of identity could cause this.

You are correct, the west could end this conflict pretty quickly but have many times stated they will support Ukraine to the last Ukrainian.

None of these cheerleaders care for Ukrainians, as you say they wont house them, they wont even dontate to them. Its a colonial mindset, brainwashed through years of history showing 'we are the good guys' so we can rape and plunder, but you cant defend yourself.

Of course Russia can be dimilitarised.

It is a Fake Country, in which an impoverished third world Eastern European Failed State retains control of its historical Empire and nuclear weapons which it inherited from the USSR - as did Ukraine.

But Ukraine was responsible and gave up its nuclear weapons, just as South Africa did.

Russia has shown that it is untrustworthy. They have invaded Georgia, Moldova and Ukraine and also occupy part of Azerbaijan.

The USSR was already reduced to its constituent nations, and all bar two lost their nuclear weapons and military might.

Now it's Russia's turn. Fortunately for us, Putin has disarmed himself in terms of conventional weapons.

Don't kid yourself that Russia is always a Great Power. Last century they lost wars to Poland and to Japan. Russia is just an Empire that has never been decolonized and which uses nukes that it inherited to blackmail decent countries.

 

[sweep_shot]

By the way, it is by definition NOT a terrorist attack to disable a bridge which is used to carry soldiers, weapons and fuel that is used in an invasion. It is a legitimate and legal act of self-defence.

By your logic, what Talibans did were also not terror attacks since they were defending their lands against American invasion.

 

[sweep_shot]

1. The bridge attack killed civlians, yet you claim its not terrorism. What is your definition of terrorism?

2. You are repeating a broken record, how many missiles do they and how long before they run out. Please state numbers and date.

3. You only believe Russia hit 3 targets today?

4. As for Rules and War crimes, how can a US/Nato supporter have any credibiity? See earlier, US have a law which prevents any US official from being tried in the Hague, heck they will invade it if it comes to this.

Ukraine is done, as a Bangladeshi, Englishman living in Australia it wont matter to you. Get on with watching Australian rules.

As per Junaids,

Western soldiers take out enemy bridges = self-defense.
Brown people do the same = terrorism.

That's what it seems like.

It is funny because he himself is 50% brown.

 

[KingKhanWC]

As per Junaids,

Western soldiers take out enemy bridges = self-defense.
Brown people do the same = terrorism.

That's what it seems like.

It is funny because he himself is 50% brown.

He also claims Palestinians are terrorists for defending themselves, Israelis are heros. So at least he his consistent. lol. Consistent in believing his boys are heros, can kill any innocent person but nobody can harm his boys.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Of course Russia can be dimilitarised.

It is a Fake Country, in which an impoverished third world Eastern European Failed State retains control of its historical Empire and nuclear weapons which it inherited from the USSR - as did Ukraine.

But Ukraine was responsible and gave up its nuclear weapons, just as South Africa did.

Russia has shown that it is untrustworthy. They have invaded Georgia, Moldova and Ukraine and also occupy part of Azerbaijan.

The USSR was already reduced to its constituent nations, and all bar two lost their nuclear weapons and military might.

Now it's Russia's turn. Fortunately for us, Putin has disarmed himself in terms of conventional weapons.

Don't kid yourself that Russia is always a Great Power. Last century they lost wars to Poland and to Japan. Russia is just an Empire that has never been decolonized and which uses nukes that it inherited to blackmail decent countries.

This will be a classic post.

Please explain HOW Russia can be demilitarised? Forget the past, I want logistics, logic, politics of now.

 

[sweep_shot]

He also claims Palestinians are terrorists for defending themselves, Israelis are heros. So at least he his consistent. lol. Consistent in believing his boys are heros, can kill any innocent person but nobody can harm his boys.

He also made a thread defending Israel. Some of the arguments he posted were quite absurd and funny.

I honestly don't know what his identities are. He claims to be a Christian but rejects resurrection and creationism. He claims to be a conservative voter but supports many leftist policies.

He seems more Europhile than actual white Europeans.

So, yeah. Quite confusing.

 

[Junaids]

By your logic, what Talibans did were also not terror attacks since they were defending their lands against American invasion.

The Ukrainian government is democratically elected. The Taliban is not, so it is illegitimate.

 

[topspin]

He also claims Palestinians are terrorists for defending themselves, Israelis are heros. So at least he his consistent. lol. Consistent in believing his boys are heros, can kill any innocent person but nobody can harm his boys.

Lets put this to the test.

[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] - simple question I have for you. Is Israel or Palestine the oppressor?

 

[sweep_shot]

The Ukrainian government is democratically elected. The Taliban is not, so it is illegitimate.

Why are you assuming all places prefer democracy? In Afghanistan, they have their own system. Your version of western democracy is unlikely to fly in that part of the world.

 

[Junaids]

Why are you assuming all places prefer democracy? In Afghanistan, they have their own system. Your version of western democracy is unlikely to fly in that part of the world.

The Taliban won 0 seats out of 250 in the 2018 Afghan General Election. ZERO.

We know that the Afghans don't want the Taliban.

 

[Junaids]

Lets put this to the test.

[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] - simple question I have for you. Is Israel or Palestine the oppressor?

I don't think this content belongs in this thread, but I have to answer for people to take note of my Russia/Ukraine views.

In 1947 the UN partitioned Palestine into two nations - Israel and Palestine. They immediately went to war, and Israel has occupied the Palestinian part (which is Gaza, the West Bank and East Jerusalem) ever since.

Therefore, Israel is the occupier and the oppressor in the UN-created state of Palestine (which does NOT include Tel Aviv, Haifa, West Jerusalem etc).

Where I get flamed is for pointing out that Palestinians who are citizens of Israel Proper (not the occupied territories), while increasingly being less privileged than Jews, enjoy more freedom, more democracy, better health care, better education and more wealth than the Arab citizens of any Arab nation. But that is a fact - it's not even debatable.

But in terms of the UN-designated state of Palestine? It is under Israeli occupation which I completely oppose. And I also oppose the settlements in the West Bank and I oppose East Jerusalem being treated as part of Israel. My views are basically identical to [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION].

The irony here is this.

Russia treats Ukraine like Israel treats the Arabs in the Occupied Territories. Only worse! Israel doesn't steal all their washing machines and computers, or flatten entire towns.

 

[sweep_shot]

The Taliban won 0 seats out of 250 in the 2018 Afghan General Election. ZERO.

We know that the Afghans don't want the Taliban.

What about 2001? What right did United States have to invade Afghanistan and occupy for 20 years? If your argument is to liberate Afghans, by that logic, Russians have the right to be in Ukraine also. Russians are looking to liberate the Russian speaking Ukrainians and defeating the Azov Nazis.

 

[Junaids]

He also made a thread defending Israel. Some of the arguments he posted were quite absurd and funny.

I honestly don't know what his identities are. He claims to be a Christian but rejects resurrection and creationism. He claims to be a conservative voter but supports many leftist policies.

He seems more Europhile than actual white Europeans.

So, yeah. Quite confusing.

You support Donald Trump, yet he supports the Israeli annexation of East Jerusalem and the West bank, which I completely oppose.

To Donald Trump:

Russia = Israel = good
Ukraine = Palestine = bad

I don't agree.

And I don't see how anyone can support Palestine but oppose Ukraine. Especially given that savage mass murder of Syrian civilians by Russia.

Russia is a country run by xenophobic white males, who view Muslims and Asians as inferior and who use them as dispensable cannon fodder to fight their wars of Imperial conquest.

But the Russians use people's post-colonial chips on their shoulders to pretend to be the opposite of what they are - some kind of defender of the non-white world.

 

[Junaids]

What about 2001? What right did United States have to invade Afghanistan and occupy for 20 years? If your argument is to liberate Afghans, by that logic, Russians have the right to be in Ukraine also. Russians are looking to liberate the Russian speaking Ukrainians and defeating the Azov Nazis.

There are lots of bad governments in the world. And we can't liberate everyone from bad governments.

But there is a red line beyond which you go way past bad government to Evil on Earth. These governments are simply murdering **** and we all have a responsibility to ensure that they are removed from power and either brought to justice or sent on their way to Hell.

The Nazis and the Taliban and Stalin all fall into that category, as did Pol Pot and arguably Mao in the Cultural Revolution.

I argue differently to you - I think that anyone who lets the Taliban stay in power is an accessory to Evil, and is going to be judged on that basis.

You will note, by the way, that I listed the Nazis as equal to the Taliban in terms of Evil and wickedness.

The Russians have a brainwashed population and use "Nazis" as a bogeyman to justify their Imperial War of Conquest.

I am profoundly anti-Nazi, but I can see that the Russians are using it as a fake way of vilifying their enemy.

By the way, the Russian speaking Ukrainians don't want to be "liberated" by Russia. They voted for Zelensky - that's how he, a Russian-speaking Ukrainian - got elected.

 

[sweep_shot]

You support Donald Trump, yet he supports the Israeli annexation of East Jerusalem and the West bank, which I completely oppose.

To Donald Trump:

Russia = Israel = good
Ukraine = Palestine = bad

I don't agree.

And I don't see how anyone can support Palestine but oppose Ukraine. Especially given that savage mass murder of Syrian civilians by Russia.

Russia is a country run by xenophobic white males, who view Muslims and Asians as inferior and who use them as dispensable cannon fodder to fight their wars of Imperial conquest.

But the Russians use people's post-colonial chips on their shoulders to pretend to be the opposite of what they are - some kind of defender of the non-white world.

I do not support Trump. Where did you get that from? You got me mixed up with someone else.

I have certain conservative values but those are due to Islam. For example, LGBTQ issue. I am also against leftism (things like gender quota and radical feminism).

Palestine and Ukraine are not the same.

Also, your comment about Russia is inaccurate. Russia has many Muslims. Chechens, for example.

 

[sweep_shot]

There are lots of bad governments in the world. And we can't liberate everyone from bad governments.

But there is a red line beyond which you go way past bad government to Evil on Earth. These governments are simply murdering **** and we all have a responsibility to ensure that they are removed from power and either brought to justice or sent on their way to Hell.

The Nazis and the Taliban and Stalin all fall into that category, as did Pol Pot and arguably Mao in the Cultural Revolution.

I argue differently to you - I think that anyone who lets the Taliban stay in power is an accessory to Evil, and is going to be judged on that basis.

You will note, by the way, that I listed the Nazis as equal to the Taliban in terms of Evil and wickedness.

The Russians have a brainwashed population and use "Nazis" as a bogeyman to justify their Imperial War of Conquest.

I am profoundly anti-Nazi, but I can see that the Russians are using it as a fake way of vilifying their enemy.

By the way, the Russian speaking Ukrainians don't want to be "liberated" by Russia. They voted for Zelensky - that's how he, a Russian-speaking Ukrainian - got elected.

It is not America's job to enforce the red line. I hope America is enjoying the trillions of Dollars of debt. May America pay for their crimes.

Also, when you write "we", what do you mean? You live in Australia. Australia can't enforce anything. Even North Korea can own Australia.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

I
Where I get flamed is for pointing out that Palestinians who are citizens of Israel Proper (not the occupied territories), while increasingly being less privileged than Jews, enjoy more freedom, more democracy, better health care, better education and more wealth than the Arab citizens of any Arab nation. But that is a fact - it's not even debatable.

Not debatable? Do you know how high the living standards Arabs have in Qatar, Kuwait, UAE, etc? They have more wealth than Arabs in Israel.

 

[Junaids]

It is not America's job to enforce the red line. I hope America is enjoying the trillions of Dollars of debt. May America pay for their crimes.

Also, when you write "we", what do you mean? You live in Australia. Australia can't enforce anything. Even North Korea can own Australia.

Firstly, Australia is part of AUKUS.

Secondly, Australia has exactly the same size economy as Russia. If Russia is a major power than so is Australia. Especially as we only have 1/6 as many people sharing the same wealth.

But I am British anyway. And Britain is the world's second strongest military power.

 

[Junaids]

Not debatable? Do you know how high the living standards Arabs have in Qatar, Kuwait, UAE, etc? They have more wealth than Arabs in Israel.

Actually when I last looked, which admittedly was a few months ago, Israeli Arabs (not oppressed Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza):

1. Lived longer than any other Arabs.
2. Had lower infant mortality than any other Arabs.
3. Had a higher rate of university graduation than any other Arabs.

 

[Junaids]

It is not America's job to enforce the red line. I hope America is enjoying the trillions of Dollars of debt. May America pay for their crimes.

Also, when you write "we", what do you mean? You live in Australia. Australia can't enforce anything. Even North Korea can own Australia.

It is everybody's duty to enforce the red line.

We can't remove every tinpot dictator. But when a country is run by murdering psychopaths like the Taliban, who ruin the lives of half the country for gender reasons, you are either with them or against them. If you leave them in power you will face judgment for having allowed evil to thrive.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

You support Donald Trump, yet he supports the Israeli annexation of East Jerusalem and the West bank, which I completely oppose.

To Donald Trump:

Russia = Israel = good
Ukraine = Palestine = bad

I don't agree.

And I don't see how anyone can support Palestine but oppose Ukraine. Especially given that savage mass murder of Syrian civilians by Russia.

Russia is a country run by xenophobic white males, who view Muslims and Asians as inferior and who use them as dispensable cannon fodder to fight their wars of Imperial conquest.

But the Russians use people's post-colonial chips on their shoulders to pretend to be the opposite of what they are - some kind of defender of the non-white world.

Because the conditions that the West wants the Palestinians to accept, basically being a vassal of Israel, is something they find outrageous for Ukrainians. So if its ok for Israel to demand that Palestine be demilitarized, that they control the airspace, territorial waters, foreign policy, restrict what alliances Palestine can join, then why cant Russia do the same? Its hypocrisy.

 

[Gilly]

Firstly, Australia is part of AUKUS.

Secondly, Australia has exactly the same size economy as Russia. If Russia is a major power than so is Australia. Especially as we only have 1/6 as many people sharing the same wealth.

But I am British anyway. And Britain is the world's second strongest military power.

Currently ranked around 5th or 6th.

 

[sweep_shot]

It is everybody's duty to enforce the red line.

We can't remove every tinpot dictator. But when a country is run by murdering psychopaths like the Taliban, who ruin the lives of half the country for gender reasons, you are either with them or against them. If you leave them in power you will face judgment for having allowed evil to thrive.

Nope. It doesn't work that way.

Sovereignty should be respected.

America went nuts when Russians parked missiles in Cuba. But, if America parks their nukes near Russia, they expect everyone to be okay with it.

Hypocrisy.

 

[bones]

Those missile attacks in Ukraine yesterday can't have been by Russia - we were told by the BBC they ran out in April.

 

[Robert]

No he wont unless they attack Russia. Putin waited for 7+ years, being patient wanting to further the Minsk agreements but Azov and Ukraine kept attacking Russians in the East. He is liberating people.

Its been a great performance with only 200k to take on an Army double this, trained by Nato for years and also which has Nato nations troops inside covertly helping them.

When December arrives, its either time for Ukraine to accept a deal or to be in ruins. The time is running out.

Your words stand on their heads KKWC. Had Putin not invaded in 2014, and fomented civil war in the East, the ethnic Russians in the East would have been fine.

You can’t liberate people of a democracy by putting them under a despot.

 

[Robert]

What about 2001? What right did United States have to invade Afghanistan and occupy for 20 years? If your argument is to liberate Afghans, by that logic, Russians have the right to be in Ukraine also. Russians are looking to liberate the Russian speaking Ukrainians and defeating the Azov Nazis.

The right of any nation to defend itself when attacked, of course. Somebody in Afghanistan killed 2700 Americans and 70 British citizens on 9/11. NATO declared Article Five for the only time in history.

And it was forty countries under a UN mandate, including Arab League members, not just USA.

Ukraine never attacked Russia in such a way as 9/11, so your comparison is false.

 

[sweep_shot]

The right of any nation to defend itself when attacked, of course. Somebody in Afghanistan killed 2700 Americans and 70 British citizens on 9/11. NATO declared Article Five for the only time in history.

And it was forty countries under a UN mandate, including Arab League members, not just USA.

Ukraine never attacked Russia in such a way as 9/11, so your comparison is false.

Somebody in Afghanistan? Who? Bin Laden was a Saudi.

Don't tell me you support the invasion of Afghanistan.

 

[sweep_shot]

You can’t liberate people of a democracy by putting them under a despot.

Putin is a democratically elected leader: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Russian_presidential_election.

If Putin is a despot, so is Biden. If anything, Biden is a bigger despot.

 

[SalimBhai]

Putin is a democratically elected leader: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Russian_presidential_election.

If Putin is a despot, so is Biden. If anything, Biden is a bigger despot.

Hahahahaha. “ putin is an elected leader”. Funniest thing all week. That takes the cake

 

[MenInG]

Russia has been widely condemned after bombarding cities across Ukraine, including launching missile strikes on the centre of Kyiv for the first time.

The US said the "brutal" attacks had hit non-military targets, including a university and children's playground, and promised ongoing military aid.

United Nations chief Antonio Guterres said he was "deeply shocked".

Vladimir Putin said the attacks were retaliation for Saturday's explosion on a key bridge linking Russia to Crimea.

Ukraine says 83 missiles were launched of which more than 43 were shot down.

In a defiant video, Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky said that "Ukraine cannot be intimidated. It can only be more united."


The deadly barrage included strikes on the cities of Lviv, Kharkiv, Dnipro and Zaporizhzhia, and were some of the worst Ukraine has seen for months.

At least 14 people were killed and scores more were injured, officials said.

Several regions were left without electricity and water after missiles hit energy infrastructure.

Residents in the capital Kyiv said Russia appeared to be targeting civilian areas which were busy with Monday morning commuters, including the children's playground, university and the popular Taras Shevchenko park.

Antonio Guterres described the strikes as "another unacceptable escalation of the war" for which civilians were paying the highest price.

The EU said a war crime had been committed, while European Commission president Ursula von der Leyen said Russia stood for terror and brutality.

US President Joe Biden was one of many foreign leaders to speak with President Zelensky, and he "pledged to continue providing Ukraine with the support needed to defend itself, including advanced air defence systems", the White House said.

Mr Biden said the attacks demonstrated "the utter brutality" of Putin's "illegal war".

China and India, which have not condemned the war, called for a de-escalation.

Speaking at the UN General Assembly in New York, Sergiy Kyslytsya, Ukraine's Ambassador to the UN, said his family had been in a residential area in Ukraine when it was attacked by the latest Russian missiles and they were unable to go to a bomb shelter.

He said Russia had already killed some of his relatives, calling it "a terrorist state" that must be deterred in the strongest possible ways to prevent further atrocities. He added that Russia's delegation to the UN left "a trail of blood" whenever it entered the General Assembly hall.

The General Assembly is holding an emergency meeting following Russia's latest attacks. Although the session was convened because of the Kremlin's annexation of four partly-occupied Ukrainian regions following sham referendums, it has been overshadowed by this morning's attacks.

Russian missiles began hitting targets across Ukraine around the morning rush hour on Monday, in the most widespread bombardment of the war.

Ihor Zhovka, deputy head of President Zelensky's office, said they were designed to sow panic.

The strikes were more intense than had previously been seen, he told the BBC, and in some ways resembled the early days of the war.

He added that this had not come as a surprise, and was a sign of things to come during the "very difficult" winter ahead.

Russia's President Putin said the attacks were in retaliation to Saturday's explosion on the bridge linking the occupied Crimea peninsula to Russia which he blamed on Ukraine.

Ukraine has not confirmed it was behind that strike. Mr Zhovka said he did not entirely believe that the Russian attacks were a retaliation, as Kyiv has been hit before.

Mr Putin warned he was ready to authorise more "severe" attacks, while deputy head of the Russian Security Council Dmitry Medvedev said that "the first episode has been played. There will be others".

Meanwhile, Belarus President Alexander Lukashenko - a close ally of President Putin - has agreed to deploy his forces to link up with Russian soldiers at Belarus' border with Ukraine in response to what he said was a threat to his country from Kyiv.

"We need to figure out what else needs to be done to strengthen the security of our state, given the rapidly changing environment," he said according to comments carried in the state-run Belta news agency.

Lukashenko, who held a one-on-one meeting with President Putin in St Petersburg, said he had been informed through unofficial channels of a "Crimean Bridge 2" being planned against Belarus, a reference to Saturday's explosion on a key bridge linking Russia with Crimea.

Without providing any evidence, he said: "Ukraine is not just contemplating, but planning strikes on the territory of Belarus," adding that Kyiv was being "pushed by their patrons to unleash a war against Belarus" and Russia at the same time.

"We saw it, we knew it, we created battalion tactical groups, we practiced the defence of the southern border, which we are doing now," he said.

Mr Lukashenko has become increasingly reliant on Russia for economic, political and military support in recent years, and Russian forces used Belarus as a base when it began its invasion of Ukraine in February.

 

[sweep_shot]

Hahahahaha. “ putin is an elected leader�. Funniest thing all week. That takes the cake �

Check: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Russian_presidential_election.

 

[SalimBhai]

Check: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Russian_presidential_election.

Yes I know about the “ fair election” in 2018. Most of opponents could not run. Some went to jail, one was poisoned.

 

[Junaids]

Check: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Russian_presidential_election.

It’s not a democracy when you murder the opposition or lock them up. And when you ban the opposition from the media. And when the news media is just the propaganda wing of the government.

Russia is a dictatorship dressed up as a sham democracy.

 

[Robert]

Somebody in Afghanistan? Who? Bin Laden was a Saudi.

Don't tell me you support the invasion of Afghanistan.

Hmm. I’m sitting in Italy at present. But I’m British! How is this possible?

Well, you see, there are big flying machines called “aeroplanes” that people can move between countries in.

Whether the invasion of Afghanistan was the correct response I don’t know. The US and her allies could have used special forces to assassinate the network who caused the attacks, I guess. But blood cries out for blood. 2700 Americans died and their people wanted retribution. USA was attacked for the first time since WW2. Bush 43 was under overwhelming political pressure to strike back in a decisive way. And when your only tool is a sledgehammer, something will get smashed.

Afghani women got educated for twenty years, and the standard of living went up overall, so some good came of it. Now the Iron Age religious nutters are back in charge and their people are starving.

What would you do if you were Canadian PM and someone deliberately crashed an airliner into the CN Tower and Blue Jays stadium and thousands of your people died?