Sachin Tendulkar vs AB de Villiers - The overall complete batsman?

[Slog]

Bradman didn't say Sachin was better than him. He told that his wife said Tendulkar's playing resembled his style very much while watching Sachin on telly.

Iirc Viv tweeted that kohli's way of attacking play reminded of his play (though I'm not sure about this one. Have to check)

Yes these are true and i dont dispute that.

quite a few indians over the years have posted that these 2 said SRT and Kohli are better than them including the poster i quoted. I was just saying thats not true.

 

[street cricketer]

Yes these are true and i dont dispute that.

quite a few indians over the years have posted that these 2 said SRT and Kohli are better than them including the poster i quoted. I was just saying thats not true.

Now that's OTT

 

[Acricketfan]

You seem to have an unlimited supply and need for it going by your posting history

Post some here. Gotta see what it is

How about focusing on the link i posted ?

 

[Slog]

How about focusing on the link i posted ?

Link proves me right if anything.

He didnt say Kohli is 'better than me' now did he which is what I contested against.

I didnt doubt Kohli's greatness as an ODI batsman at any point

 

[Hasan123]

How about now?

Sachin wins it for me.

 

[Bilal7]

ABDV has surpassed Sachin. He can do everything Sachin could and more.

 

[Hasan123]

ABDV has surpassed Sachin. He can do everything Sachin could and more.

Can't take his team over the line in icc tournaments though.

 

[Abdullah719]

Can't take his team over the line in icc tournaments though.

Sachin never did that either so they are equal in that too.

 

[DRsohail]

sachin is far ahead,,,,

 

[Bilal7]

Sachin never did that either so they are equal in that too.

It's a maximum!!

 

[Hasan123]

Sachin never did that either so they are equal in that too.

Lol 2011 WC? Sachin dominated that tournament. AB plays decent knocks but can't take his team over the line.

 

[Abdullah719]

Lol 2011 WC? Sachin dominated that tournament. AB plays decent knocks but can't take his team over the line.

Sachin didn't take India 'over the line' there either. Performed well though, overall.

 

[Hitman]

Would ABDV make it to of an All Time Test XI? I don't think so. Sachin has mostly found a place in such compiled teams, bar a couple. He didn't make it to Geoff Boycott's and Dicky Bird's teams.

Would ABDV make it to an All Time ODI XI? I personally think so. He has done enough for a spot. But ahead of names like Viv and Sachin? No way.

Over all, a mind blowing talent. He doesn't necessarily have to be better than anyone.

 

[Hasan123]

Sachin didn't take India 'over the line' there either. Performed well though, overall.

Well that's better than what ABD has done at major tournaments. My point was when it matters AND hasn't done he business. So to be better than Sachin, one of the greatest of all time he should have been able to win a semi or final for his side.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Comparing two batsmen of different eras is always a guessing game.

In test cricket: I think SRT > daylight > then some daylight > then some more daylight > and then some > ABDV. For countless number of reasons.

In ODI cricket: Here I think AB is a beast of nature. That said, if SRT had same bat size and bowling standards with current ODI rules: I don't think he would be less than any of current ODI players.

So one can say that both are complete batsmen. Which they are. But in comparison SRT brings so much more than AB on table.

(and I ain't no Sachinista )

 

[Hitman]

Comparing two batsmen of different eras is always a guessing game.

In test cricket: I think SRT > daylight > then some daylight > then some more daylight > and then some > ABDV. For countless number of reasons.

In ODI cricket: Here I think AB is a beast of nature. That said, if SRT had same bat size and bowling standards with current ODI rules: I don't think he would be less than any of current ODI players.

So one can say that both are complete batsmen. Which they are. But in comparison SRT brings so much more than AB on table.

(and I ain't no Sachinista )

With regards to ODI cricket, the format has evolved so much in the last 17 years, it's insane. Prior to that, an SR of 80 odd was absolutely magnificent to say the least. These days, it's below par. Back then an average of 35 odd was really very good. These days it's laughable for a specialist batsman to have such an average.

I'm not being biased here, but Sachin's SR of 86 odd back then was simply hard to believe keeping in mind his unreal consistent average of almost 45 odd. These days those figures are nothing extraordinary.

It's because of those factors I regard Ponting so high in ODI cricket, not to say he was any less in Tests. His SR of 80 odd back then was magnificent, add to that his excellent consistency of averaging 42 odd. Same with Saeed Anwar who had an SR of 80 odd with an average of slightly less than 40, being an opener. Those were the players who were superb in the ODI format back then although their figures would look nothing great in today's age.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

With regards to ODI cricket, the format has evolved so much in the last 17 years, it's insane. Prior to that, an SR of 80 odd was absolutely magnificent to say the least. These days, it's below par. Back then an average of 35 odd was really very good. These days it's laughable for a specialist batsman to have such an average.

I'm not being biased here, but Sachin's SR of 86 odd back then was simply hard to believe keeping in mind his unreal consistent average of almost 45 odd. These days those figures are nothing extraordinary.

It's because of those factors I regard Ponting so high in ODI cricket, not to say he was any less in Tests. His SR of 80 odd back then was magnificent, add to that his excellent consistency of averaging 42 odd. Same with Saeed Anwar who had an SR of 80 odd with an average of slightly less than 40, being an opener. Those were the players who were superb in the ODI format back then although their figures would look nothing great in today's age.

Well said. SR of past and SR of these days should never be compared. So many rule tweaking has changed the ODI cricketer.

 

[jusarrived]

ABDV has surpassed Sachin. He can do everything Sachin could and more.

What did AB do exactly ?

 

[Mamoon]

Although he was a letdown in key moments, de Villiers operated at a magical level between 2012 and 2015. I have never seen a batsman bat as well as de Villiers did in those 3 years. However, he has fallen apart for numerous reasons in the last two years and is now racing towards his imminent retirement.

A lot of people ignore how difficult it is to operate at a world class level for a long period of time. Pakistani players have generally failed the longevity test which is why we are so allergic to Tendulkar's supernormal longevity, but the fact is that he did for 17-18 years what most other players struggle to do for 7-8 years.

To be a world class batsmen for around 180 of his 200 Tests and 400 of his 460 ODIs is remarkable. He has dominated generations of different bowlers, mastered different conditions and match situations for across formats for years and years while playing for a cricket crazy country with huge expectations on his shoulders every time he walked out to bat.

People talk about his flop captaincy, but I don't see anyone successfully leading the team in his position considering the amount of pressure that he had to deal with as a batsman alone. Under normal circumstances, things might have been different.

That is why he has the strongest claim of being the greatest batsmen ever. There might be a couple of batsmen who can be considered his equal in Tests, and Viv and Kohli are better in ODIs, but he is the only batsman in history who is a certified top 3 in both ODIs and Tests.

 

[Bilal7]

What did AB do exactly ?

Fastest 150 of all time, participated in the most epic modern-day blockathon and everything in between. Also the small matter of him keeping wicket and captaining the team with some success.

We can argue about who the better batsman is but the most complete batsman? Anyone who does not pick ABDV is either lying or ill-informed.

 

[Hasan123]

Fastest 150 of all time, participated in the most epic modern-day blockathon and everything in between. Also the small matter of him keeping wicket and captaining the team with some success.

We can argue about who the better batsman is but the most complete batsman? Anyone who does not pick ABDV is either lying or ill-informed.

Interesting how you don't bring flat pitches or the quality of bowling into this argument. When it comes to Indian players you shift your goal posts.

 

[Ab Fan]

AB till 2015 looked well on his way to join the league of Tendulkar,Lara and Ponting.

Now he has demoted himself to a lot inferior level to those guys.

A great test bat while an alltime great in odis. A 7.5/10 in tests and 9/10 in odis.

On other hand, Tendulkar is a 9.5 in tests and odis both.

 

[Dingolfy]

Depends upon how good ABDV has been against good spinners on spinning tracks.Didn't see anything special in him during out last SA series other than some good defensive play.But you cant compare that against Sachin who has murdered the best spinner the world had ever seen and that too on spinning decks of India.He was a freak of a batsman but was mentally not as strong as Kohli and was born in a wrong era with mediocre players all around him.

 

[Bilal7]

AB till 2015 looked well on his way to join the league of Tendulkar,Lara and Ponting.

Now he has demoted himself to a lot inferior level to those guys.

A great test bat while an alltime great in odis. A 7.5/10 in tests and 9/10 in odis.

On other hand, Tendulkar is a 9.5 in tests and odis both.

Sachin is not better than AB in ODIs. They are on the same level with de Villiers slightly ahead. If the South African keeps up his performances until the end of the next World Cup, he'll end up as the greatest ODI batsman of all time, ahead of even Viv.

Interesting how you don't bring flat pitches or the quality of bowling into this argument. When it comes to Indian players you shift your goal posts.

This is because ABDV is an all-conditions player. Most Indian batsmen are not.

 

[Hasan123]

Sachin is not better than AB in ODIs. They are on the same level with de Villiers slightly ahead. If the South African keeps up his performances until the end of the next World Cup, he'll end up as the greatest ODI batsman of all time, ahead of even Viv.



This is because ABDV is an all-conditions player. Most Indian batsmen are not.

All condition player who fails to take his team over the line when it matters lol.

Also how come you don't use quality of bowling and flat pitches in favour of AB here? Is it because Sachin is Indian?

 

[Haz95]

AB de Villiers is the most complete batsman ever. I hate modern day limited overs cricket yet I can say that confidently. No batsman has as many gears as AB.

Not even batsmen like Lara, Viv are on ABs level of versatility.

 

[Bilal7]

All condition player who fails to take his team over the line when it matters lol.

Also how come you don't use quality of bowling and flat pitches in favour of AB here? Is it because Sachin is Indian?

You fall head over heels for Kohli, who is a much bigger choker than ABD so stop being a hypocrite.

The quality of bowling and pitches do not matter when the discussion is about the completeness of a player.

Btw, if Cook is a 9.5 out of 10 in tests, what rating would you give Sachin?

 

[Ab Fan]

Sachin is not better than AB in ODIs. They are on the same level with de Villiers slightly ahead. If the South African keeps up his performances until the end of the next World Cup, he'll end up as the greatest ODI batsman of all time, ahead of even Viv.



This is because ABDV is an all-conditions player. Most Indian batsmen are not.

I rate Tendulkar higher but as of now, AB is still the best odi batsmen of his era.

In tests, he is world class too and was also the no.1 test batsmen at one point.

 

[Godhelpma]

Sachin is far ahead , was highest scorer in two world cups , has over 33,000 runs in international career . It is not even close . Sachin should be compared with the greats of the game, not with AbDV. Although it may hurt a few PPers ,but ABDV is over rated here .

 

[anoop]

Sachin was better.

 

[Princejain191]

You fall head over heels for Kohli, who is a much bigger choker than ABD so stop being a hypocrite.

The quality of bowling and pitches do not matter when the discussion is about the completeness of a player.

Btw, if Cook is a 9.5 out of 10 in tests, what rating would you give Sachin?

How is Kohli a bigger choker than ABD when Virat has won us a must-win match vs Aus (mohali), a semi-final in 2014 vs SA, top scored in Semi final vs WI and in final vs. SL (final) (All these in World T20s) and then top-scored in our CT 2013 final, a 50+ in Semi in CT13, a 90 odd in Semi in CT17 and played a more than decent hand in WC11 final???????? What has AB done apart from a 60 odd hiding behind his team-mates in the WC semi? I mean it is fine if you hate Kohli but SERIOUSLYYYYYY DUDEEE

 

[Hasan123]

You fall head over heels for Kohli, who is a much bigger choker than ABD so stop being a hypocrite.

The quality of bowling and pitches do not matter when the discussion is about the completeness of a player.

Btw, if Cook is a 9.5 out of 10 in tests, what rating would you give Sachin?

Kohli has performed much more times under pressure than AB. Furthmore Kohli has carried Indian LO batting line up for most of his career .

Well you said AB is better than Sachin so it's interesting how when it's an Indian player the pitches they score on and bowlers they face become irrelevant.

I maybe ovverated Cook. Between 8 and 8.5 is fair enough. At least i can admit when I make a mistake. Unlike you embarrassing yourself with posts such as Amla being the 2nd best ODI opener of all time. ) )

 

[Bilal7]

How is Kohli a bigger choker than ABD when Virat has won us a must-win match vs Aus (mohali), a semi-final in 2014 vs SA, top scored in Semi final vs WI and in final vs. SL (final) (All these in World T20s) and then top-scored in our CT 2013 final, a 50+ in Semi in CT13, a 90 odd in Semi in CT17 and played a more than decent hand in WC11 final???????? What has AB done apart from a 60 odd hiding behind his team-mates in the WC semi? I mean it is fine if you hate Kohli but SERIOUSLYYYYYY DUDEEE

WT20s =/= World Cups. Kohli is an undeniably great T20 batsman but he's been nothing but a massive choker in the 50 overs format. No comparison with ABD who dwarfs him in terms of World Cup performances. The 2013 CT final was a T20 match as well, which is why Kohli did reasonably well compared to his humiliating "innings" in the 2017 CT final which was a 50 overs game.

Do you people not understand that One day internationals and twenty twenty matches are different formats?

Kohli has performed much more times under pressure than AB. Furthmore Kohli has carried Indian LO batting line up for most of his career .

Well you said AB is better than Sachin so it's interesting how when it's an Indian player the pitches they score on and bowlers they face become irrelevant.

I maybe ovverated Cook. Between 8 and 8.5 is fair enough. At least i can admit when I make a mistake. Unlike you embarrassing yourself with posts such as Amla being the 2nd best ODI opener of all time. ) )

Kohli is a World Cup failure, unlike ABD who has a stellar WC record. But yes, bashing Sri Lanka on flat pitches is the most stressful job in the world it seems. When exactly has Kohli carried the Indian team, by the way? Was it when he had the likes of Sachin, Raina and Yuvraj batting alongside him or when he had MS Dhoni cleaning up his mess? You need to look up the meaning of "carried" in a proper dictionary.

Pitches and quality of bowlers do not matter here because ABD has scored on all sorts of pitches against world class bowlers. I stand by what I say. Amla is most definitely the second best ODI opener of all time (behind Sachin) and unlike your claims, mine are backed up by cold, hard facts.

This thread is about AB vs Sachin so let's stay on topic.

 

[Hasan123]

WT20s =/= World Cups. Kohli is an undeniably great T20 batsman but he's been nothing but a massive choker in the 50 overs format. No comparison with ABD who dwarfs him in terms of World Cup performances. The 2013 CT final was a T20 match as well, which is why Kohli did reasonably well compared to his humiliating "innings" in the 2017 CT final which was a 50 overs game.

Do you people not understand that One day internationals and twenty twenty matches are different formats?



Kohli is a World Cup failure, unlike ABD who has a stellar WC record. But yes, bashing Sri Lanka on flat pitches is the most stressful job in the world it seems. When exactly has Kohli carried the Indian team, by the way? Was it when he had the likes of Sachin, Raina and Yuvraj batting alongside him or when he had MS Dhoni cleaning up his mess? You need to look up the meaning of "carried" in a proper dictionary.

Pitches and quality of bowlers do not matter here because ABD has scored on all sorts of pitches against world class bowlers. I stand by what I say. Amla is most definitely the second best ODI opener of all time (behind Sachin) and unlike your claims, mine are backed up by cold, hard facts.

This thread is about AB vs Sachin so let's stay on topic.

World cup failure is extreme. He's performed but not his ability. He still has another world cup to correct his record but if he did score the pitches will become flat). Yuvraj and Dhoni are finishers, Kohli has given them platforms and if you saw the t20 WC last year it was mainly because of Kohli they got as far as they did .

Why do you always need to resort to personal insults to get your point across? Kohli had support at the start of his career but for a lot of his Indian career in LO he has been the main scorer for India.

Only in your world he is definitely the best 2nd ODI opener of all time. Start a thread on it and let's see how many agree with you. I follow other cricket forums and pages and I haven't seen many say Amla is even a great ODI player regardless of your precious stats. You only use stats when it suits your agenda anyway.

On topic , AB is probably a more complete player due to his ability to accelerate but I think Sachin is the overall better player due to his consistency and longevity.

 

[Tusker]

WT20s =/= World Cups. Kohli is an undeniably great T20 batsman but he's been nothing but a massive choker in the 50 overs format. No comparison with ABD who dwarfs him in terms of World Cup performances. The 2013 CT final was a T20 match as well, which is why Kohli did reasonably well compared to his humiliating "innings" in the 2017 CT final which was a 50 overs game.

Do you people not understand that One day internationals and twenty twenty matches are different formats?



Kohli is a World Cup failure, unlike ABD who has a stellar WC record. But yes, bashing Sri Lanka on flat pitches is the most stressful job in the world it seems. When exactly has Kohli carried the Indian team, by the way? Was it when he had the likes of Sachin, Raina and Yuvraj batting alongside him or when he had MS Dhoni cleaning up his mess? You need to look up the meaning of "carried" in a proper dictionary.

Pitches and quality of bowlers do not matter here because ABD has scored on all sorts of pitches against world class bowlers. I stand by what I say. Amla is most definitely the second best ODI opener of all time (behind Sachin) and unlike your claims, mine are backed up by cold, hard facts.

This thread is about AB vs Sachin so let's stay on topic.

So there was no pressure in the 1st CT match or the WC match vs Pakistan and the CT S/F ? And ofcourse pressure suddenly magically vanished in the 2013 CT Final after it became a T20 match ...right?

 

[Bilal7]

World cup failure is extreme. He's performed but not his ability. He still has another world cup to correct his record but if he did score the pitches will become flat). Yuvraj and Dhoni are finishers, Kohli has given them platforms and if you saw the t20 WC last year it was mainly because of Kohli they got as far as they did .

Why do you always need to resort to personal insults to get your point across? Kohli had support at the start of his career but for a lot of his Indian career in LO he has been the main scorer for India.

Only in your world he is definitely the best 2nd ODI opener of all time. Start a thread on it and let's see how many agree with you. I follow other cricket forums and pages and I haven't seen many say Amla is even a great ODI player regardless of your precious stats. You only use stats when it suits your agenda anyway.

On topic , AB is probably a more complete player due to his ability to accelerate but I think Sachin is the overall better player due to his consistency and longevity.

For the last time, the WT20 is not equivalent to the World Cup. I'm not saying ABD is a superior T20 player than Sachin/Kohli, I'm saying that he's the better ODI player.

Main scorer or carried his team? Make up your mind because there is a difference. As for the 2019 WC, I see pain in the future of Kohli fans given that the tournament is taking place in England.

Good to see that you agree that ABD is the more complete player. We don't have anything more to discuss here.

 

[Bilal7]

So there was no pressure in the 1st CT match or the WC match vs Pakistan and the CT S/F ? And ofcourse pressure suddenly magically vanished in the 2013 CT Final after it became a T20 match ...right?

Not as much. And yes, each format has a different sort of pressure.

 

[Sachin136]

Main scorer or carried his team? Make up your mind because there is a difference. As for the 2019 WC, I see pain in the future of Kohli fans given that the tournament is taking place in England.

Did you not watch the CT this year, which was also in England?

 

[Bilal7]

Did you not watch the CT this year, which was also in England?

I watched the final quite keenly, yes. Maybe you misinterpreted my comment, the pain will be in the form of Kohli choking in the semis or finals yet again... If India make it that far.

Anyways, Kohli has no business being mentioned here. He's not at the same level as these two legends.

 

[Hasan123]

For the last time, the WT20 is not equivalent to the World Cup. I'm not saying ABD is a superior T20 player than Sachin/Kohli, I'm saying that he's the better ODI player.

Main scorer or carried his team? Make up your mind because there is a difference. As for the 2019 WC, I see pain in the future of Kohli fans given that the tournament is taking place in England.

Good to see that you agree that ABD is the more complete player. We don't have anything more to discuss here.

Not equalivant in terms of prestige but it's pressure nonetheless. I am trying to say Kohli has performed in pressure situations.

It's both. Usually when he fails India have lost. And I can also see you making excuse after excuse when Amla fails in the 2019 WC)

 

[Tusker]

Not as much. And yes, each format has a different sort of pressure.

The T20 matches have the highest pressure due to the nature of the format. There is no scope for error. The CT 2013 final, 2007 WT20 final and S/F, 2016 WT20 Final are just a few examples of how the game slipped from the hands of favorites in a short time span ( 4 deliveries in the case of Ben Stokes vs Brathwaite ). You have to be on top of your game all the time and there is no breathing room or recovery time.

BTW going by your logic Waqar Younis is also a choker then ? And perhaps you rate Bracken, Blee, Bichel, McGrath as better bowlers than Waqar using the same logic.

 

[giri26]

The T20 matches have the highest pressure due to the nature of the format. There is no scope for error. The CT 2013 final, 2007 WT20 final and S/F, 2016 WT20 Final are just a few examples of how the game slipped from the hands of favorites in a short time span ( 4 deliveries in the case of Ben Stokes vs Brathwaite ). You have to be on top of your game all the time and there is no breathing room or recovery time.

BTW going by your logic Waqar Younis is also a choker then ? And perhaps you rate Bracken, Blee, Bichel, McGrath as better bowlers than Waqar using the same logic.

Sorry but McGrath is better bowler than Waqar.

 

[James]

Tendulkar - by several expenditures of maxed out air miles.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

Sachin was far better and more complete although AB is phenomenal.

 

[Bilal7]

The T20 matches have the highest pressure due to the nature of the format. There is no scope for error. The CT 2013 final, 2007 WT20 final and S/F, 2016 WT20 Final are just a few examples of how the game slipped from the hands of favorites in a short time span ( 4 deliveries in the case of Ben Stokes vs Brathwaite ). You have to be on top of your game all the time and there is no breathing room or recovery time.

BTW going by your logic Waqar Younis is also a choker then ? And perhaps you rate Bracken, Blee, Bichel, McGrath as better bowlers than Waqar using the same logic.

Except that T20 is fun cricket and no player takes it as seriously as they take tests or ODIs. Plenty of tests and ODIs have swung one way and the other in short spaces of time as well.

A single test match has five days of investment put into it. T20 slogs are happening all over the place and if you lose one, you can forget about it (because everyone else does) and win another one taking place in a couple of days. Until recently, the WT20 was being held every two years and nearly every team won one. Compared to that, the World Cup happens every four years and it is still very elusive for the majority of the cricketing world.

McGrath is definitely a better ODI bowler than Waqar. Lee is arguably better. The other two performed better in WCs but that does not make them better than Waqar because their overall records do not warrant a comparison with the great man.

Not only is ABD a better batsman than Kohli, or for that matter Sachin, he's also better than the former in World Cup matches, by a lot.

 

[Ab Fan]

Top 5 ODI batsmen of alltime:-

Richards
Tendulkar
Ponting
de Villiers
Kohli

 

[ShahidDar08]

No comparison at all. Sachin is 100 times better than so called ABD. I will take Sachin any day over him. what ABD is doing with improvisations, Sachin has done that with pure class.

 

[Tusker]

Except that T20 is fun cricket and no player takes it as seriously as they take tests or ODIs. Plenty of tests and ODIs have swung one way and the other in short spaces of time as well.

That is not true at all. WT20S are fiercely contested. Don't know what media you follow that paints them as just fun cricket.

A single test match has five days of investment put into it. T20 slogs are happening all over the place and if you lose one, you can forget about it (because everyone else does) and win another one taking place in a couple of days. Until recently, the WT20 was being held every two years and nearly every team won one. Compared to that, the World Cup happens every four years and it is still very elusive for the majority of the cricketing world.

Any team can beat any other team in T20Is that's why the pressure is always there. In Tests a good team will always win as you get 2nd chance.

McGrath is definitely a better ODI bowler than Waqar. Lee is arguably better. The other two performed better in WCs but that does not make them better than Waqar because their overall records do not warrant a comparison with the great man.

Beg to disagree and most people who watched all these players will agree that Waqar was a special player despite his poor WC record. Infact Bracken's oversall record is pretty good but no one will ever pick him over Waqar.

Kohli's record in chases is exceptional. He still has a good record vs Pakistan. ABD has never played in any match that has anything like India Pakistan pressure in WC.

Not only is ABD a better batsman than Kohli, or for that matter Sachin, he's also better than the former in World Cup matches, by a lot.

see Waqar vs those other bowlers analogy above and factor in the high pressure factor of ind vs pak matches.