Saeed Ajmal still baffled by Sachin Tendulkar lbw reversal

[Sledger]

Ajmal still baffled by Tendulkar lbw reversal

Pakistan offspinner Saeed Ajmal has said that he is still not sure how the Decision Review System (DRS) overturned on-field umpire Ian Gould's lbw ruling against Sachin Tendulkar during the World Cup semi-final against India in Mohali. Gould ruled Tendulkar lbw off Ajmal in the 11th over, but the batsman reviewed the decision. Replays showed that the ball pitched in line but according to Hawk Eye the ball was missing leg stump and the decision was overturned.

"I don't know how the television replays showed my delivery turning towards the leg side because I had bowled an arm ball and it went straight," Ajmal told AFP on the team's arrival in Lahore. "I was 110% confident when the referral was made that the batsman was out." Tendulkar was on 23 at that point, and survived four dropped chances before he was dismissed after making a crucial 85 that earned him the Man of the Match award.

Ajmal picked up two wickets and said that he was happy with his bowling performance but disappointed that Pakistan lost the high-voltage clash to India by 29 runs. "All of us were very disappointed at losing the match because there was so much interest and hype attached to it. But in cricket one team has to lose and one has to win," he said.

The pick of the Pakistan bowlers in that game was left-arm seamer Wahab Riaz who picked up his first five-wicket haul in ODIs and had India in trouble at 205 for 6 before Suresh Raina's cameo. "The wickets of [Virender] Sehwag and Yuvraj [Singh] were most memorable for me as they are very dangerous players of pace and spin," Riaz said. Riaz had Sehwag lbw for 38 and accounted for Yuvraj Singh for a duck with a swinging, dipping full toss.

Pakistan were warmly welcomed by their fans when they arrived in Lahore and captain Shahid Afridi, who landed in Karachi, was mobbed by joyous fans on the way to his house. Opening batsman Mohammad Hafeez, who made a quick-fire 43, urged the Pakistan fans to have faith in the team. "This team has a lot of capability and will get better results in the future," he said.

Pakistan manager Intikhab Alam praised the team spirit and said the way the team had gelled together and played as a unit through the tournament was the most satisfying aspect of the campaign. "My main task was to unite the team and make it perform collectively and I think we achieved that to a great extent and that is satisfying for me."

Pakistan next travel to West Indies to play Twenty20, five one-dayers and two Tests. That tour begins on April 18.

 

[Dr Khan]

Lets move on Ajmal Bhai

 

[abc_to_xyz]

can someone plz provide me the real time delivery? I would like to see by myself..

 

[sanju]

India won , Pakistan knocked out . End off .

 

[iRfaN_LA]

Well, I am not complaining but it was as plumb as it gets.

 

[Saurav]

would love to see his interview on that

 

[Waq]

Well well well.

A potentially crucial error in a hugely important game.

As much as I do not think it was sinister, the ICC must commision some form of research for the cricketing world and fans to keep faith with hawk eye.

 

[Express Pace]

Was plumb, even the pro Indian commentators thought it was plumb, the umpire was shaking his head after the reversal.

 

[Legendary_Sage]

in real time ball was going straight and hit tendulkar on inner side of pad and bat was close to the ball but in hawk eye it hit him on middle of pad and at the time of impact his bat was not at the same position as in real time. Also the ball was new and wasn't spinning much but in hawk eye it showed as it is turning square and on top of that it was an arm ball.

Hawk eye is controlled by a person and he can get the results of his liking during the match.

 

[Gollum]

Straight as an arrow ball no question

 

[Khan88]

Really don't know what to believe. I'm not one to doubt the game but after all those chances Tendulkar got and Lorgat's talk about his Mumbai dream ending,etc...something just doesn't add up.

 

[Afridi_Fan]

If that was not out, I don't know how one can get even more plumb. Missing stumps? Yeah right. Gould face said it all. )

 

[AZ]

pakka fraud tha, and no-one is going to convince me otherwise.

 

[Afridi_Fan]

pakka fraud tha, and no-one is going to convince me otherwise.

I'm with you on that one.

 

[QuarterBack]

If that was not out, I don't know how one can get even more plumb. Missing stumps? Yeah right. Gould face said it all. )

Hawkeye by itself is definitely flawed, i agree... But the umpire's reaction means nothing... Asoka De Silva, of all people, looked baffled when he had to over turn his decisions, thats just human instinct...

 

[Afridi_Fan]

Look at Gould's record and then look at Ashoka's record. Then we probably can compare the two.

 

[QuarterBack]

Look at Gould's record and then look at Ashoka's record. Then we probably can compare the two.

Gould is a far better umpire, am not debating that. All am saying is that Gould's reaction is no "proof", it was human instinct...

 

[Afridi_Fan]

Gould is a far better umpire, am not debating that. All am saying is that Gould's reaction is no "proof", it was human instinct...

Okay, before you saw hawk eye what was your reaction? Was that out or not?

 

[Rizie]

so are we all i think

it was dead plum, and ajmal doesnt even turn that much

as soon as the indians referred it , i knew it would have been reversed because that would have been game set and match for them.

 

[NO 1 AFRIDI FAN]

pakka fraud tha, and no-one is going to convince me otherwise.

Definitely, that was just plumb I was absolutely shocked when the decision got reversed

 

[QuarterBack]

Okay, before you saw hawk eye what was your reaction? Was that out or not?

Definite out, i was also under the impression that the second review would get wasted too...

But, doesnt that happen with run outs? We are absolutely sure that the batsmen is out/safe only for the slow motion to prove us wrong...

 

[Afridi_Fan]

For the Love of God there is a HUGE difference between a run out an a dead plumb LBW.

 

[Krishnan]

Even i was baffled about sewag decision.sewag jumped on that delivery and it was clearly going above stumps.as soon as i saw it,knew it was fraud.

 

[QuarterBack]

For the Love of God there is a HUGE difference between a run out an a dead plumb LBW.

You asked me a question about what i "thought" with what i saw with the naked eye...

Look, I was surprised by HE's trajectory... But all im saying is that Gould's reaction or your or mine is no evidence...

 

[AZ]

Even i was baffled about sewag decision.sewag jumped on that delivery and it was clearly going above stumps.as soon as i saw it,knew it was fraud.

ball kept low.

 

[wasim-fan]

Yes we hacked it !! BCCI has money to burn

 

[Afridi_Fan]

And where the ball hit Sehwag, over the knee roll? How tall is Sehwag?

Guess what it is a big fail. Lets now try Dhoni's dismissal? Shall we?

 

[sully3]

I really hope for the sake of cricket that the hawk eye wasn't tampered with, I really do.

it was plum the commentators thought so, the umpire made a point to shake his head at the decision the bowler has come out and said it was a straighter bowl so how did it go leg side.

seriously I hope this wasn't done on purpose because I for one will stop watching cricket. Even tendulkar would be disheartened if we find out hawk eye was tempered with.

 

[Afridi_Fan]

I really hope for the sake of cricket that the hawk eye wasn't tampered with, I really do.

it was plum the commentators thought so, the umpire made a point to shake his head at the decision the bowler has come out and said it was a straighter bowl so how did it go leg side.

seriously I hope this wasn't done on purpose because I for one will stop watching cricket. Even tendulkar would be disheartened if we find out hawk eye was tempered with.

Now that is a total fantasy my friend.

 

[abc_to_xyz]

Really don't know what to believe. I'm not one to doubt the game but after all those chances Tendulkar got and Lorgat's talk about his Mumbai dream ending,etc...something just doesn't add up.

Hey! Its All India...


The question is, why Mr. 'Honest' Tendulkar didn't walked away when he knew it was a plumb? Did he knew that Indians can temper Hawk-eye or was his sportsman-spirit gone?

 

[philhunter]

And where the ball hit Sehwag, over the knee roll? How tall is Sehwag?

Guess what it is a big fail. Lets now try Dhoni's dismissal? Shall we?

sehwag was in air and the ball was pitched so short so how can it still not over the stumps

 

[pakistandiehardfan]

sehwag was in air and the ball was pitched so short so how can it still not over the stumps

uneven bounce.

 

[PakPeace]

we all know it was out even the umpire gave it out, you could tell from tendolkar's face it was out

 

[Krishnan]

ball kept low.

And where the ball hit Sehwag, over the knee roll? How tall is Sehwag?

Guess what it is a big fail. Lets now try Dhoni's dismissal? Shall we?

Ball kept low but only slightly below knee roll.which means if he was standing,it would have hit above knee roll.and when it hits above knee roll most of the times ball goes over the stumps.

But that was a tongue in cheek comment to be honest.Hawk eye is not fully accurate as the maker had said it himself and tendulkar looked out when i saw it without the replay first time.

 

[Indiafan]

I would agree that it looked dead to the naked eye. But Sachin was on the move and the ball had to travel.

 

[Afridi_Fan]

Can we get a picture without the hawk eye?

 

[QuarterBack]

^^^ So the ball was not a doosra or straight ball...

 

[d0gers]

I would agree that it looked dead to the naked eye. But Sachin was on the move and the ball had to travel.

Key again for me is always in the wicketkeeper's movement. Kamran Akmal's left leg has moved out and his hands are also moving towards the leg side. So the ball was definitely not heading straight on, it was going towards leg.

Mighty close and a tough one to go against you. Nothing sinister in it though. If you live by Hawkeye then you also have to die by Hawkeye, simple as.

 

[Sledger]

^ I don't think Kamran's keeping trigger movements are ever a good litmus test.

 

[Fireworks11]

It looked absolutely dead with the naked eye. Most of the commentators were dumbstruck when Hawk-Eye showed it to be missing leg stump.

 

[d0gers]

He's slow sure but he had the line covered there.

 

[Afridi_Fan]

Right behind the middle stump, Yes.

 

[Sledger]

Well, if ther was an instance of an absolute plumb lbw 'ball' being delivered, you'd expect the keeper's first movement to be from off to leg anyway - as they're looking outside off stump to start with.

 

[Arcturus]

Hey! Its All India...


The question is, why Mr. 'Honest' Tendulkar didn't walked away when he knew it was a plumb? Did he knew that Indians can temper Hawk-eye or was his sportsman-spirit gone?

Is Tendulkar on record saying that he was "out plumb"? If not then how do you know?

Thats a pretty inane comment and questioning someones integrity on such dubious grounds doesnt do you any good.

 

[d0gers]

It looked absolutely dead with the naked eye. Most of the commentators were dumbstruck when Hawk-Eye showed it to be missing leg stump.

Not the first time this has happened to us.

Marcus North had an lbw overruled off Asif at Sydney in the 1st innings of the 2nd Test. Ian Chappell couldn't believe it. Again a close decision that didn't go our way.

But we've Hawkeye to our advantage on many occasions as well.

 

[SOSami]

Hawkeye does get things wrong.

I also remember Warne asking 'Is Hawkeye on the same pitch as us Rameez?' during the Pak-Oz test series in England.

Still cuts out most mistakes though. Better with than without in my opinion.

 

[srh]

It was definitely OUT. I dont know how this software works but in this instance it definitely gave the wrong answer. All softwares can have bugs. ICC should improve this software. This is assuming there was no sinister forces in play.

 

[ozzy_07]

For those that want another look-

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/JUy7_sDlx2E" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>​

 

[Arcturus]

Would be much better if hotspot is also utilised

 

[kak196]

Hey! Its All India...


The question is, why Mr. 'Honest' Tendulkar didn't walked away when he knew it was a plumb? Did he knew that Indians can temper Hawk-eye or was his sportsman-spirit gone?

Why are you picking on the batsman. How can a batsman tell if it is plumb without looking at wickets? Get over it guys, I know it has been a nightmare but get over it! If anything pick on your fielders on why they dropped so many catches. If that was given out by hawk eye what was the guarantee Pakistan would have won. May be Yuvraj the man in form would have scored.

 

[talha3]

I've studied hard at the replays, paused on various views e.t.c,

and what I think is that:
It's an optical illusion to the naked eye. In the days without hawk eye, that would have been given by any umpire, even Ashoka, simply because it ticks the lbw checklist, pitches just outside off, hits on middle, batsman staying back, so must hit leg...

but actually, if you watch it again, there are a number of reasons why it missed. Remember, these aren't BIG factors, but factors that, when added together, lead to the ball just missing leg:
1. If you look at where Ajmal bowled it from, it was relatively wide-ish and so created the angle to slide down leg.
2. If you watch the replay, tendulkar is slanting forward and was caught on the front leg with the knee bent slightly so it hit the pad even further down than it looks at first sight.

At the end of the day, it was only a millimeter off, and on another day, tendulkar would have been out either on this ball or the next.

 

[NJamal]

It was as plumb as you get and no one knows better than the bowler. There was definitely something fishy there.

 

[kriskmk]

[B
"I don't know how the television replays showed my delivery turning towards the leg side because I had bowled an arm ball and it went straight," Ajmal told AFP on the team's arrival in Lahore. .

LOL.... Ajmal is either lying.. delusional or has extremely poor vision. CLEARLY the ball did NOT go straight.. It pitched WAYY outside off and Sachin is trying to hit it on the leg side.. Jeez he is angling it in from an offish position.. how on earth can he say it went straight!

 

[kriskmk]

Why are you picking on the batsman. How can a batsman tell if it is plumb without looking at wickets? Get over it guys, I know it has been a nightmare but get over it! If anything pick on your fielders on why they dropped so many catches. If that was given out by hawk eye what was the guarantee Pakistan would have won. May be Yuvraj the man in form would have scored.

You can't straighten a dog's tail. This is Pakistan at it's usual cry baby game!..It is OK when people question technology, but they should also be open to being convinced after looking at replays and being objective with their conscience. It pisses me off that people can be such LIARS.. CLEARLY the ball is missing leg (awfully close.. but it IS missing it)..

and I will be damned if I sit here and let nitwits question the ethics and honor of Sachin.

 

[kriskmk]

It was as plumb as you get and no one knows better than the bowler. There was definitely something fishy there.

What a stupid comment!.. no one knows better than the bowler? What planet are you from??

 

[srh]

Guys there is no point in discussing if this is OUT or not. We all know this was as plumb as it gets. The issue we should be discussing is how to remove these kind of bugs from this software because this software is still the way to go forward. If there are still bugs in this software then teams may start to dislike it.

 

[sanju]

You can't straighten a dog's tail. This is Pakistan at it's usual cry baby game!..It is OK when people question technology, but they should also be open to being convinced after looking at replays and being objective with their conscience. It pisses me off that people can be such LIARS.. CLEARLY the ball is missing leg (awfully close.. but it IS missing it)..

and I will be damned if I sit here and let nitwits question the ethics and honor of Sachin.

Its Nothing New Man ! The frustrations coming from the defeat against India which lead to one team being knocked out by the Champions is having a bad effect on some of the losing team's fans . Things as of now are very hard to digest especially since its India who has advanced to the next stage while there team is out but I Hope as time passes they will get over it .

 

[cricketindiafan]

It was as plumb as you get and no one knows better than the bowler. There was definitely something fishy there.

Yeah like he knew ball was going straight!!

 

[Shayan]

Its Nothing New Man ! The frustrations coming from the defeat against India which lead to one team being knocked out by the Champions is having a bad effect on some of the losing team's fans . Things as of now are very hard to digest especially since its India who has advanced to the next stage while there team is out but I Hope as time passes they will get over it .

Please get your facts right.

 

[Hamxa89]

Ajmal still baffled by Tendulkar lbw reversal

because I had bowled an arm ball and it went straight," Aj.

That is EXACTLY what I noted when the replays were shown. There were no revs on the ball and it was shocking to see the ball turn that much. If we can get the replay of the ball being released from Ajmal's hand; we'll see why he's upset.

This was a pretty baffling incident. Looked plumb in real time as well.

 

[Kenyan Desi]

At first sight it looked plumb but fact is that it wasn't. When the camera zooms in, you can clearly see how far he came down with his foot and how much spin there was in that delivery. not out...correct decision by hawk eye.

 

[Indiafan]

That is EXACTLY what I noted when the replays were shown. There were no revs on the ball and it was shocking to see the ball turn that much. If we can get the replay of the ball being released from Ajmal's hand; we'll see why he's upset.

This was a pretty baffling incident. Looked plumb in real time as well.

The ball did not turn much if you see the picture. But It was delivered from an angle and continued along that path. How did it pitch outside off and hit Sachin in front of middle if it didnt turn?

 

[Indiafan]

Can we get a picture without the hawk eye?

Then you wouldnt know the distance between Sachin's legs and stumps and how much farther the ball needed to travel

 

[hashmist]

What a stupid comment!.. no one knows better than the bowler? What planet are you from??

No need to call people names. Everyone has a right to express their opinion, whether you like it or not. Stay classy my Indian friends!

 

[saajidrox]

it looked plumb to me
i was like oh why us tendu going for a review india will not have any more reviews left and must be cause he wants to score a 100 today and when the review was shown
i was like this

 

[ElRaja]

i looked at the replays too and stopped it at the point where you can see trajectory from where it is estimated by hawkeye. it looks like it is predicted correctly.

the problem is this, if the umpire had given it not out, and the ball had hit by a millimetre it would have been given not out, however now the umpire has given it out and it misses by a millimetre the decision is overturned, icc clearly didnt think out the rules properly why they implimented them. or is this just a manifestation of the benefit of doubt goes to batsmen.

if i was ajmal, id be more baffled by hw pak dropped tendu 4 times. pak litteraly have themselves to blame, ajmal can be baffled abt udrs all he wants.

 

[Sohaib]

Dropping four catches doesn't make up for a wrong decision. That is if it was a wrong decision. Ajmal should be baffled how come they dropped four catches! Time to move on

 

[IM NOT YOU]

to be honest, it looks like a fair decision to me.

not really sure what people are getting worked up about. watched the replay with and without hawkeye several times and its pretty clear it was going down leg.


as for the stumping, thats another story. im pretty sure if you go to micro-frames you will see that the bails were disturbed before his toe was on the ground. however, the question becomes, were the bails dislodged off the wicket or simple disturbed.


in all, i think both decisions were relatively fair and we need to just let it go.

 

[cric_fan82]

^^^atlast a sensible post

 

[ZenBowman]

I think it was clearly out, and Hawkeye is an imperfect technology. It would have struck leg stump.

I have said from the beginning that the Hawkeye trajectory prediction is consistently lower than we would expect, AND now we see that even the line is not perfectly predicted. But it is part of the game now, so instead of complaining about it, the ICC should work on improving it.

 

[Express Pace]

Hawkeye isn't perfect, it makes a lot of mistakes. Watching tennis you will realise this.

 

[Abdullah22]

I'm a honest man and admit that at first sight I thought it was not out because of the balls angle.

 

[Statsman]

Umar Akmal was NOT OUT too off Harbhajan!! It was an optical illusion that the ball hit the wicket.
And the ball off which Razzaq seemed to have been bowled was another optical illusion my friends, ya true that, was actually a bomblastic SIX hit by the beast.

 

[NorthStar]

"I don't know how the television replays showed my delivery turning towards the leg side because I had bowled an arm ball and it went straight ...I was 110% confident when the referral was made that the batsman was out." Saeed Ajmal told AFP on the team's arrival in Lahore.

http://img132.imageshack.us/i/3srtfcorrectpath.jpg/

The red line is straightest path from Pitching to Impact and to the Stumps ... surprise, surprise its hitting leg stump.

 

[Saurav]

Sehwag looked not out from naked eye.it looked like like pitching outside leg since it was short n Wahab isnt known to swing the ball back in.wonder everybody is quiet about that))

 

[youboy]

OK this is my analysis...
I checked frame by frame. Please have a look at the picture below:


Frame 1. The ball's actual course and the impact point. Please look at the angle clearly no drift at all.

Frame 2. The ball starts to roll over the pad and moves on the offside.

Frame 3. This is the computer generated image of the ball used to show the computed course or trajectory of the ball. Please look at the position where it appears.

We can clearly see that the ball suddenly appears to be shifted from its original position as if it was pulled laterally towards right. Also, the height has changed. The computer generated ball's impact is shown slightly above the actual impact.

Someone here said that they looked at Kamran Akmal's feet moving towards right so it appears like the ball is going down leg. Here we can see that Akmal was standing outside off for the bowler. So naturally, when the ball was pitched he aligned himself with the line of the ball.

We can also see that at the time of impact, the major portion of his body and the gloves are inline with the off stump. Please watch carefully.

One more argument is that Ajmal bowled this from an angle wide of the stumps. There is one video posted in the thread. Please have a look at it. Anyone who who has some knowledge of bowling would know what the ball looks like when the ball is bowled with an angle. Please look at Ajmal's right leg at the time of his delivery. This was just a loopy delivery and kept straight on its path. Even Ajmal himself said that he balled a straighter one.

I feel there is a difference in angle of almost 3~5 degrees between the actual and the estimated trajectory. The huge drift shown is not possible as estimated by the software.

 

[sully3]

my question to everyone is how does hawk eye know what ball has been bowled?
ajmal has come out and said it was a straighter bowl.
so how does hawk eye know it wasn't a doosra etc etc.

 

[QuarterBack]

my question to everyone is how does hawk eye know what ball has been bowled?
ajmal has come out and said it was a straighter bowl.
so how does hawk eye know it wasn't a doosra etc etc.

Technical explanation is that it does not need to know. It computes the path traveled by the ball based on actual movement...

 

[TAK]

Key again for me is always in the wicketkeeper's movement. Kamran Akmal's left leg has moved out and his hands are also moving towards the leg side..

as if :kami would really have a clue

 

[Xohaib]

@sully because hawkeye starts its work after the ball is pitches