Saeed Ajmal still baffled by Sachin Tendulkar lbw reversal

[Hitman]

Harbhajan is totally fine. Got all his wickets with the valid deliveries and is respected worldwide. He is a bowler of Akram's stature with very similar stats.

Never knew a bowling average of 23.62 (Wasim) is the same as a bowling average of 32.63 (Harbhajan).

Please don't insult a great bowler like Wasim by comparing him to a borderline good-ish bowler like Harbhajan.

 

[Finisher]

Harbhajan is totally fine. Got all his wickets with the valid deliveries and is respected worldwide. He is a bowler of Akram's stature with very similar stats.

Obviously you would say that.

Every offspinner with a jerky action has been tested apart from Harbhajan And Ashwin.

And lol at comparing harbhajan to Akram

 

[Indian_Supporter]

Either way Pakistan didnt lost that game because of that LBW decision. They lost because they dropped subsequently 4 catches of Sachin and then Misbah & Younus got confused if its a test match or ODI. If couple of other Pak batsman played with the intensity Umar Akmal played, Pak would have won it.

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[Hitman]

Obviously you would say that.

Every offspinner with a jerky action has been tested apart from Harbhajan And Ashwin.

And lol at comparing harbhajan to Akram

Same here, agree with you

 

[Statsman]

An apology from match officials and Hawkeye to Ajmal would be a start - maybe even from Tendulkar as he did benefit from it.

Lol the video you posted is noway an evidence of any wrong decision against Ajmal.

 

[Statsman]

So the DRS should not b used until the technology becomes perfect? [MENTION=132752]endymion248[/MENTION]

 

[Abhilash93]

Also that ball to Rohit Sharma was a no ball

 

[sandsaims]

Pakistan was robbed of the World cup.

 

[cricketAXEpert]

Ajmal still baffled by Tendulkar lbw reversal

Pakistan offspinner Saeed Ajmal has said that he is still not sure how the Decision Review System (DRS) overturned on-field umpire Ian Gould's lbw ruling against Sachin Tendulkar during the World Cup semi-final against India in Mohali. Gould ruled Tendulkar lbw off Ajmal in the 11th over, but the batsman reviewed the decision. Replays showed that the ball pitched in line but according to Hawk Eye the ball was missing leg stump and the decision was overturned.

"I don't know how the television replays showed my delivery turning towards the leg side because I had bowled an arm ball and it went straight," Ajmal told AFP on the team's arrival in Lahore. "I was 110% confident when the referral was made that the batsman was out." Tendulkar was on 23 at that point, and survived four dropped chances before he was dismissed after making a crucial 85 that earned him the Man of the Match award.

Ajmal picked up two wickets and said that he was happy with his bowling performance but disappointed that Pakistan lost the high-voltage clash to India by 29 runs. "All of us were very disappointed at losing the match because there was so much interest and hype attached to it. But in cricket one team has to lose and one has to win," he said.

The pick of the Pakistan bowlers in that game was left-arm seamer Wahab Riaz who picked up his first five-wicket haul in ODIs and had India in trouble at 205 for 6 before Suresh Raina's cameo. "The wickets of [Virender] Sehwag and Yuvraj [Singh] were most memorable for me as they are very dangerous players of pace and spin," Riaz said. Riaz had Sehwag lbw for 38 and accounted for Yuvraj Singh for a duck with a swinging, dipping full toss.

Pakistan were warmly welcomed by their fans when they arrived in Lahore and captain Shahid Afridi, who landed in Karachi, was mobbed by joyous fans on the way to his house. Opening batsman Mohammad Hafeez, who made a quick-fire 43, urged the Pakistan fans to have faith in the team. "This team has a lot of capability and will get better results in the future," he said.

Pakistan manager Intikhab Alam praised the team spirit and said the way the team had gelled together and played as a unit through the tournament was the most satisfying aspect of the campaign. "My main task was to unite the team and make it perform collectively and I think we achieved that to a great extent and that is satisfying for me."

Pakistan next travel to West Indies to play Twenty20, five one-dayers and two Tests. That tour begins on April 18.

Because DRS does not know if the delivery is an Arm Ball or regular spin delivery. Since Arm Ball is rarely used and used as a surprise weapon. The Hawk eye will only go by averages. on Average an Ajmal Delivery Spins towards the Leg. Unless it is a Doosra. So Hawk Eye gave the off spin trajectory.

Just forget it, thinking it was a bad decision. It is really all Pakistan's fault, DRS did not tell Pakistan to drop 4 catches after that...

 

[HitWicket]

Because DRS does not know if the delivery is an Arm Ball or regular spin delivery. Since Arm Ball is rarely used and used as a surprise weapon. The Hawk eye will only go by averages. on Average an Ajmal Delivery Spins towards the Leg. Unless it is a Doosra. So Hawk Eye gave the off spin trajectory.

Just forget it, thinking it was a bad decision. It is really all Pakistan's fault, DRS did not tell Pakistan to drop 4 catches after that...

That's not how it works, Hawkeye will simply take the data after the ball bounced therefore the ball will have already turned and it doesnt have to predict which way/how far it will turn at all.

 

[Cricketrenew]

On that decision it was impossible for the ball to turn that much and miss leg stump.
I guess no one really cares as long as India won, ICC was happy.

Although in these days where Integrity is questioned so much, I am surprised that the decision hasn't be checked properly by Academics....etc.

Its history but if ever the real result comes out Indians will be unhappy also as they would have probably won anyway.

Not sure why it is being bought back up again let it go......its history.

India Champions........its just a game.

 

[#GreenRoars]

Either way Pakistan didnt lost that game because of that LBW decision. They lost because they dropped subsequently 4 catches of Sachin and then Misbah & Younus got confused if its a test match or ODI. If couple of other Pak batsman played with the intensity Umar Akmal played, Pak would have won it.

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Perfectly said bro. We didn't deserve to win that match.

 

[HitWicket]

On that decision it was impossible for the ball to turn that much and miss leg stump.
I guess no one really cares as long as India won, ICC was happy.

Although in these days where Integrity is questioned so much, I am surprised that the decision hasn't be checked properly by Academics....etc.

Its history but if ever the real result comes out Indians will be unhappy also as they would have probably won anyway.

Not sure why it is being bought back up again let it go......its history.

India Champions........its just a game.

Tendulkars front leg was a decent distance outside his crease and the ball hit him on middle/millimetres towards off stump.

 

[endymion248]

The proof that the decision was wrong - the blue trajectory and the orange trajectory do not follow eachother.

 

[HitWicket]

The proof that the decision was wrong - the blue trajectory and the orange trajectory do not follow eachother.

Why would they? This is a front on view therefore due to the perception of depth and the ball starting to drop (or increase in height at a slower rate as in this case) the trajectory will appear to be moving away when it is infact just dropping.

 

[endymion248]

Why would they? This is a front on view therefore due to the perception of depth and the ball starting to drop (or increase in height at a slower rate as in this case) the trajectory will appear to be moving away when it is infact just dropping.

You can see that tendulkar's foot is on the red line, that would not be enough for the ball to drop enough that we can't see it on course with the blue line.

You can also see that the ball hits tendulkar on the middle wicket and tendulkar's foot is on the red line, no way that ball can travel enough to miss leg stump.

Clear technological error, Ajmal was right.

 

[rahulrulezz]

How typical of Pakistanis and the victim mentality. If there is no DRS, then the same guys complain that it's India who is scared of reviewing decisions, it's India who buys umpires to cheat etc etc. When there is a DRS in an icc event and a review decision goes against you, it's India who have bought the DRS system to cheat again. You cannot ever win with Pakistanis with their victim mentality.

 

[HitWicket]

You can see that tendulkar's foot is on the red line, that would not be enough for the ball to drop enough that we can't see it on course with the blue line.

You can also see that the ball hits tendulkar on the middle wicket and tendulkar's foot is on the red line, no way that ball can travel enough to miss leg stump.

Clear technological error, Ajmal was right.

Again there's an issue with your perception with the front line being the crease but Tendulkars foot is well in front of it.

 

[endymion248]

Again there's an issue with your perception with the front line being the crease but Tendulkars foot is well in front of it.

I don't see how it's an issue of perception, his foot is clearly on the red line.

 

[HitWicket]

I don't see how it's an issue of perception, his foot is clearly on the red line.

The red line is representing the front crease and despite it looking like the front foot may perhaps be on it it's actually a decent distance in front of it and the back foot it closer to the front line instead.

 

[endymion248]

The red line is representing the front crease and despite it looking like the front foot may perhaps be on it it's actually a decent distance in front of it and the back foot it closer to the front line instead.

Of course you would say that. I provided proof of my opinion, you are free to do so too.

 

[HitWicket]

Of course you would say that. I provided proof of my opinion, you are free to do so too.

 

[Hasan123]

Why is this thread being bumped now?

 

[endymion248]

View attachment 67580

That image makes no sense. They put the point of impact where the umpire's arm is yet you can't see the front foot on the left of the umpire.

If you see where is front foot actually is then point of impact is hidden by umpire, about 30 cm from the crease.

 

[Indian_Supporter]

Guys stop it now

Its been 5 long years but we STILL cannot forget Mohali? We also played another world cup game in 2015 but I hardly see anyone talking about it. Why?

IMHO the dismissal of Umar Akmal in 2015 was much closer than the LBW decision in Mohali.

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[HitWicket]

That image makes no sense. They put the point of impact where the umpire's arm is yet you can't see the front foot on the left of the umpire.

If you see where is front foot actually is then point of impact is hidden by umpire, about 30 cm from the crease.

The circle isnt showing the point of impact its just showing the last recorded position of ball from this specific camera. Point of the image in this case though was to show that Tendulkars front foot wasn't infact on his crease but out in front of it by a decent distance.

 

[HitWicket]

And a bit more for you showing that the image you posted is just a matter of perception with you thinking the ball was shown drifting away after impact :

 

[endymion248]

The circle isnt showing the point of impact its just showing the last recorded position of ball from this specific camera. Point of the image in this case though was to show that Tendulkars front foot wasn't infact on his crease but out in front of it by a decent distance.

No, the point of impact is supposed to be when the blue line transforms into an orange line. The point where they put that impact doesn't make sense so the rest of the trajectory doesn't make sense too as Tendulkar is supposed to be further than he actually.

 

[endymion248]

Guys stop it now

Its been 5 long years but we STILL cannot forget Mohali? We also played another world cup game in 2015 but I hardly see anyone talking about it. Why?

IMHO the dismissal of Umar Akmal in 2015 was much closer than the LBW decision in Mohali.

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Don't care about random group matches.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

I was wondering if we should Lodge a protest with ICC. Maybe they can make this and subsequent matches played again. Pakistan is the rightful winner of that world Cup.

While we are at it, it will be a good idea to protest '88 and 90s Windies series as well where 2 clear outs were not given in the final tests. Maybe we can play those matches again as well.

 

[HitWicket]

No, the point of impact is supposed to be when the blue line transforms into an orange line. The point where they put that impact doesn't make sense so the rest of the trajectory doesn't make sense too as Tendulkar is supposed to be further than he actually.

It makes perfect sense, as shown in your front on images the point of impact is actually in front of the tip of his foot due to his bent knee therefore the pad and foot are simply obscured by the umpire.

 

[endymion248]

Having looked at the way DRS calculates their trajectories in more detail based on the file Hawkeye released about this decision, it seems that there is little margin of error for lateral movement since they just take a straight trajectory. In this case, Tendulkar was hidden by the umpire but the side and front camera are synchronized so they can just see the frames to see where the point of impact is based on the speed of the ball.

The problem is with bounce as it is a curved trajectory which is harder to judge depending on pitch and speed of the ball (hence the mistake with the dismissal in Aus vs SA).

Tendulkar got very lucky and it was a matter of milimeters but he was not out.

 

[endymion248]

It makes perfect sense, as shown in your front on images the point of impact is actually in front of the tip of his foot due to his bent knee therefore the pad and foot are simply obscured by the umpire.

Yeah, you're right, his pads are oriented towards the bowler so I can see his foot being where the umpire's foot is.

 

[HitWicket]

Having looked at the way DRS calculates their trajectories in more detail based on the file Hawkeye released about this decision, it seems that there is little margin of error for lateral movement since they just take a straight trajectory. In this case, Tendulkar was hidden by the umpire but the side and front camera are synchronized so they can just see the frames to see where the point of impact is based on the speed of the ball.

The problem is with bounce as it is a curved trajectory which is harder to judge depending on pitch and speed of the ball (hence the mistake with the dismissal in Aus vs SA).

Tendulkar got very lucky and it was a matter of milimeters but he was not out.

Only took us about 20 posts to determine what I was saying in the first then . Good to see you get it now though.

 

[endymion248]

Only took us about 20 posts to determine what I was saying in the first then . Good to see you get it now though.

I hadn't seen the photos from Hawkeye report. The front view makes Tendulkar look deeper in his pitch than he is.

 

[cric_lover]

Guys stop it now


Its been 5 long years but we STILL cannot forget Mohali? We also played another world cup game in 2015 but I hardly see anyone talking about it. Why?

IMHO the dismissal of Umar Akmal in 2015 was much closer than the LBW decision in Mohali.

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UA was clearly out. There was a clear deflection. Sachin's or UA's dismissal would not have changed the result of either of the games. No way Pakistan could have won those games. If Sachin got out early, someone else would have scored big.

 

[street cricketer]

should just send a letter of apology to with a smiley at the end.

 

[Cricketrenew]

OK this is my analysis...
I checked frame by frame. Please have a look at the picture below:


Frame 1. The ball's actual course and the impact point. Please look at the angle clearly no drift at all.

Frame 2. The ball starts to roll over the pad and moves on the offside.

Frame 3. This is the computer generated image of the ball used to show the computed course or trajectory of the ball. Please look at the position where it appears.

We can clearly see that the ball suddenly appears to be shifted from its original position as if it was pulled laterally towards right. Also, the height has changed. The computer generated ball's impact is shown slightly above the actual impact.

Someone here said that they looked at Kamran Akmal's feet moving towards right so it appears like the ball is going down leg. Here we can see that Akmal was standing outside off for the bowler. So naturally, when the ball was pitched he aligned himself with the line of the ball.

We can also see that at the time of impact, the major portion of his body and the gloves are inline with the off stump. Please watch carefully.

One more argument is that Ajmal bowled this from an angle wide of the stumps. There is one video posted in the thread. Please have a look at it. Anyone who who has some knowledge of bowling would know what the ball looks like when the ball is bowled with an angle. Please look at Ajmal's right leg at the time of his delivery. This was just a loopy delivery and kept straight on its path. Even Ajmal himself said that he balled a straighter one.

I feel there is a difference in angle of almost 3~5 degrees between the actual and the estimated trajectory. The huge drift shown is not possible as estimated by the software.

Pretty obvious the ball strikes the pad middle and off,
then the ball gets moved across on last slide towards leg by a manual change?! maybe.
The word dodgy is an under statement. A world cup match was influenced by this and the ICC is happy.
How to kill a great game.

 

[Cricketrenew]

Tendulkars front leg was a decent distance outside his crease and the ball hit him on middle/millimetres towards off stump.

Sorry hello again will have to disagree again.
This decision was very dodgy, really someone should have checked properly within ICC.

 

[The Last Of The Stars]

He should be.

 

[HitWicket]

Sorry hello again will have to disagree again.
This decision was very dodgy, really someone should have checked properly within ICC.

Becoming a bit too common this .

Yes the point of impact does appear to change between the real ball shown and the computer generated point of impact ball. Thats because the camera is always going to be restricted in some rate by the amount of frames it catches and in reality will never perfectly catch the moment the ball hits the pad on camera. The last frame before the ball hits the pad therefore isnt actually the real point of impact hence why you see the slight movement of the point of impact ball by about an inch or so because the technology calculates the real point of impact.

 

[Cricketrenew]

Double and treble checked this not sure why?! Definitely out.....
Ball would not have fallen where it did if it had hit the middle of the pad as is suggested by the impact on review. OUT!!!

Maybe Sky or ICC could check for us! Integrity of the game at stake....like spot fixing
this is equally wrong.

 

[HitWicket]

Double and treble checked this not sure why?! Definitely out.....
Ball would not have fallen where it did if it had hit the middle of the pad as is suggested by the impact on review. OUT!!!

Maybe Sky or ICC could check for us! Integrity of the game at stake....like spot fixing
this is equally wrong.

Once again, what did you expect, the ball to suddenly and sharply turn towards leg stump when it hit the pad?

 

[Asim2Good]

India Won WC
Saeed Ajmal got Banned
Sachin Retired
it's been 5 years

thread still going on just like Misbah is still batting in Mohali
http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?125355-Mohali-Update-Misbah-still-Not-Out-on-99

 

[Cricketrenew]

Once again, what did you expect, the ball to suddenly and sharply turn towards leg stump when it hit the pad?

The ball hit the middle of the pad according to what is shown. Either it would have bounced off straighter in front or towards leg side. Not sharply down towards offside as happened in live play.

Regarding the aspect it has been 5 years.

When something is at the heart of the integrity of the game it should be checked not swept under the carpet.
For one reason ICC would not want a repeat if they really cared about the game.

I agree result stands whatever happens and it is history but people still discuss dodgy things like
what happened to JFK, Aus v Pak historic dodgy win......Spot Fixing.......Eng v Pak in Karachi playing in darkness....Akmal brilliant to be a wicket keeper who can't catch............

 

[HitWicket]

The ball hit the middle of the pad according to what is shown. Either it would have bounced off straighter in front or towards leg side. Not sharply down towards offside as happened in live play.

Regarding the aspect it has been 5 years.

When something is at the heart of the integrity of the game it should be checked not swept under the carpet.
For one reason ICC would not want a repeat if they really cared about the game.

I agree result stands whatever happens and it is history but people still discuss dodgy things like
what happened to JFK, Aus v Pak historic dodgy win......Spot Fixing.......Eng v Pak in Karachi playing in darkness....Akmal brilliant to be a wicket keeper who can't catch............

What do you think they happened then, someone as controlling the ball with a remote control hence why it 'bounced off at the wrong angle after impact' ?

 

[Tusker]

I expected a video that officially showed that Tendu was out - ICC admitting it or something. Instead this is a some other video that shows the unreliability of hawkeye - something BCCI has been harping about for ages.

So more like "BCCI was right after all".

So what should be done now?

Shows how crucial and important that match was and the high stakes .... People will remember and agonize over it for Yeaars !!! I can still remember the gut wrenching that I went thru for an entire week since it became known that Ind would play Pak in WC semi. Anyone who thinks Tendulkar wasnt a big match player has no clue whatsoever about what die hard fans went thru during that week .... go thru the PP forum pages from that time to see what i mean.

 

[Cricketrenew]

What do you think they happened then, someone as controlling the ball with a remote control hence why it 'bounced off at the wrong angle after impact' ?

NO if the ball hit the pad where graphic suggests ie middle of pad ball would not have bounced at angle it did in live play on offside. Basically fiddling seems to have taken place with Drs which itself is fine I believe

 

[HitWicket]

NO if the ball hit the pad where graphic suggests ie middle of pad ball would not have bounced at angle it did in live play on offside. Basically fiddling seems to have taken place with Drs which itself is fine I believe

How's this the middle of the pad :

 

[street cricketer]

[MENTION=132270]SL_Fan[/MENTION], you should probably refer to this thread.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

And I'm still baffled that the likes of Ajmal and Hafeez got away with some blatant throwing in that match. We wouldve piled on 330 and pounded Pakistan to dust if not for their dart champions . Anyway all's well that ends well

 

[Cricketrenew]

How's this the middle of the pad :

From your image it looks as though he was standing leg sidesh and the ball hit him more leg stumpish.Which is totally untrue..... the image is wrong....

The ball cannot hit where the new image states then goes offside as is stated.

 

[HitWicket]

View attachment 67718

From your image it looks as though he was standing leg sidesh and the ball hit him more leg stumpish.Which is totally untrue..... the image is wrong....

The ball cannot hit where the new image states then goes offside as is stated.

As I stated above the point of impact takes place between the frames captured by the camera. My image shows the real point of impact overlayed over the frame before the point of impact whilst your photo shows the real point of impact overlayed over the frame after the point of impact.

 

[Tusker]

View attachment 67718

From your image it looks as though he was standing leg sidesh and the ball hit him more leg stumpish.Which is totally untrue..... the image is wrong....

The ball cannot hit where the new image states then goes offside as is stated.

Huh ? Why don't you want to post an image that **YOU** think is correct ? quite amazing to see people go to extreeme extents to convince themselves of conspiracies.

 

[Sidilicious]

View attachment 67718

From your image it looks as though he was standing leg sidesh and the ball hit him more leg stumpish.Which is totally untrue..... the image is wrong....

The ball cannot hit where the new image states then goes offside as is stated.

Good try. Your image after the ball made contact with the pads


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[mudussir khawer]

SAEED AJMAL is right
Sachin Tendulkar was out in this match against PAKISTAN in world cup 2011 semi-final
But the umpire gave him not-out on review

 

[SL_Fan]

[MENTION=132270]SL_Fan[/MENTION], you should probably refer to this thread.

Too right I am here now. I have found my calling

Well this is how I see it. The ball is around 7.2cm in diameter. The stumps are around 22.9cm wide. So the stumps are roughly three and a fifth balls wide. I just don’t see that ball missing leg completely. At the very least looks to be clipping leg. I’ve seen what they released afterwards but to me where they showed the ball made impact seems a bit off and also find it difficult to believe that the ball would have deviated away that much. It’s not like it was bowled way wide of the crease.

I mean just look at where the bat ends up in relation to off stump here when the ball made impact and where the ball is at that point (taken from original footage)

And then look at where the bat ends up here when they claim impact was made (ie few frames before the one above) and where the ball is at that point. The ball seems to have moved a bit to leg side compared to the one above even when the still image is few frames before it.

Just doesn’t match up to what actually happened to me. It’s not like they would have admitted to any inaccuracies after the game anyway. I mean it was a WC semi between India and Pakistan in India which India happened to win. All heck would have broken loose if that had happened.

 

[Sidilicious]

Too right I am here now. I have found my calling

Well this is how I see it. The ball is around 7.2cm in diameter. The stumps are around 22.9cm wide. So the stumps are roughly three and a fifth balls wide. I just don’t see that ball missing leg completely. At the very least looks to be clipping leg. I’ve seen what they released afterwards but to me where they showed the ball made impact seems a bit off and also find it difficult to believe that the ball would have deviated away that much. It’s not like it was bowled way wide of the crease.

I mean just look at where the bat ends up in relation to off stump here when the ball made impact and where the ball is at that point (taken from original footage)

And then look at where the bat ends up here when they claim impact was made (ie few frames before the one above) and where the ball is at that point. The ball seems to have moved a bit to leg side compared to the one above even when the still image is few frames before it.

Just doesn’t match up to what actually happened to me. It’s not like they would have admitted to any inaccuracies after the game anyway. I mean it was a WC semi between India and Pakistan in India which India happened to win. All heck would have broken loose if that had happened.

Firstly, even if we assume your premise to be true, i.e. the ball made contact before what has been shown in the review, the line of the ball wouldn't change. i.e. the ball wouldn't suddenly turn in. The line would remain the same. Given how far out Sachin was, the ball carries on its line, and ends up slightly outside leg stump.

Secondly, are you telling me its easy to edit the video within 1 minute of the event happening (the 60 secs between the ball being bowled and the review being displayed)? And the guy who posted the video a few days after the event couldn't have changed the video?

Finally, Catching the actual point of impact on youtube using basic tools is extremely difficult. There point of impact happens within a fraction of a second, and to catch that exact point even if you pause and play very carefully is extremely difficult. So, its highly likely that finding the point of impact via youtube will not yield accurate results.

 

[SL_Fan]

What I’m suggesting is that those two pics don’t seem to add up to me just like how it didn't add up watching it live. Let’s say the impact was in fact at the time shown in that second pic - ie going by the position of the bat coming down that would be few frames before the first pic. Then how come the ball has ended up more towards the leg side on there (ie before shot) than what can be seen in the first pic (ie after shot).

I’m not saying that someone tampered with it. It’s not like H/E is 100% accurate to rule every thing else out. Even if it was tampered with I guess we’ll never know. But whatever the case the path predicted by H/E just doesn’t add up to me. I just can’t see that ball missing leg completely. Looked to be clipping leg by few mm at the very least. I don’t think I’m alone in that either. Watching that game I can recall even the commentators were amazed when it was shown to be missing the stumps completely. You can see in that vid Gould shaking his head as well.

 

[HitWicket]

What I’m suggesting is that those two pics don’t seem to add up to me just like how it didn't add up watching it live. Let’s say the impact was in fact at the time shown in that second pic - ie going by the position of the bat coming down that would be few frames before the first pic. Then how come the ball has ended up more towards the leg side on there (ie before shot) than what can be seen in the first pic (ie after shot).

I’m not saying that someone tampered with it. It’s not like H/E is 100% accurate to rule every thing else out. Even if it was tampered with I guess we’ll never know. But whatever the case the path predicted by H/E just doesn’t add up to me. I just can’t see that ball missing leg completely. Looked to be clipping leg by few mm at the very least. I don’t think I’m alone in that either. Watching that game I can recall even the commentators were amazed when it was shown to be missing the stumps completely. You can see in that vid Gould shaking his head as well.

The image over which Hawkeyes point of impact is overlayed above isn't necessarily the frame in which the real point of impact occurred because the cameras wouldn't have picked up the exact moment the ball hit the pad. The image it's overlayed over above is most likely the frame captured before the point of impact therefore in reality in that image (ignoring the overlayed impact point) the ball hasn't quite struck the pad yet.

I think through this thread now we're settled that the correct trajectory was predicted though based on that point of impact and the only debate now is the point of impact itself?

 

[Cricketrenew]

As I stated above the point of impact takes place between the frames captured by the camera. My image shows the real point of impact overlayed over the frame before the point of impact whilst your photo shows the real point of impact overlayed over the frame after the point of impact.

Nah even Sachin seems to have moved leg side by your image......Physics states the ball would not have fallen offside if it hit where you state and the post impact image. Sachin could not have moved from your pre image to the post image in half a frame....

Simply it Doesn't Add Up. As a decision it was warped and dodgy reversal.

 

[Cricketrenew]

Huh ? Why don't you want to post an image that **YOU** think is correct ? quite amazing to see people go to extreeme extents to convince themselves of conspiracies.

Why not watch the live replay then the actual decision replay....
Not sure it was a conspiracy....just a dodgy decision by maybe the operator having a human error moment.

ICC could have ended all this by making the data available or getting someone like sky or themselves to show results.....

It was OUT but too difficult take by someone?!

 

[Cricketrenew]

Good try. Your image after the ball made contact with the pads


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If what you say is true then its like the magic bullet out of JFK
so you are saying the ball was travelling leg side after impact....but somehow it finished going of low on offside?! Don't add UP.

 

[Cricketrenew]

What I’m suggesting is that those two pics don’t seem to add up to me just like how it didn't add up watching it live. Let’s say the impact was in fact at the time shown in that second pic - ie going by the position of the bat coming down that would be few frames before the first pic. Then how come the ball has ended up more towards the leg side on there (ie before shot) than what can be seen in the first pic (ie after shot).

I’m not saying that someone tampered with it. It’s not like H/E is 100% accurate to rule every thing else out. Even if it was tampered with I guess we’ll never know. But whatever the case the path predicted by H/E just doesn’t add up to me. I just can’t see that ball missing leg completely. Looked to be clipping leg by few mm at the very least. I don’t think I’m alone in that either. Watching that game I can recall even the commentators were amazed when it was shown to be missing the stumps completely. You can see in that vid Gould shaking his head as well.

Agree it simply doesn't add up, live play and the review.......
I would go further and say technology was fine but the image seemed moved...

 

[HitWicket]

Nah even Sachin seems to have moved leg side by your image......Physics states the ball would not have fallen offside if it hit where you state and the post impact image. Sachin could not have moved from your pre image to the post image in half a frame....

Simply it Doesn't Add Up. As a decision it was warped and dodgy reversal.

For your aid I've used the exact same video as you've screenshotted from above (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SeIpnJuvYA) and put our 2 consecutive frames next to each other :

The reason he moves a bit towards the off side between the frames is because he was falling slightly towards the off side as he played the shot hence how he ended up in this position afterwards :

 

[Tusker]

Why not watch the live replay then the actual decision replay....

Because you probably wouldnt approve of that either .... So hence asking you to link a image that you consider to be legit. Reading your posts it appears that you dont trust anybody. So can we see some links that you trust ?

Not sure it was a conspiracy....just a dodgy decision by maybe the operator having a human error moment.

ICC could have ended all this by making the data available or getting someone like sky or themselves to show results.....

It was OUT but too difficult take by someone?!

It was indeed released by hawkeye ... see post 262 by [MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION] .... that image came from Hawkeye. They also re-checked the data and stood by their decision. Ofcourse since you are into conspiracies you probably think they were "bought" by BCCI ....

 

[Cricketrenew]

How's this the middle of the pad :

Hello but this is the image you used before...
How come he is standing more leg side in this one?!

the other images still do not explain how the ball fell offside after hitting the middle of the pad,
and the momentum was towards legside, unless it hit on the inside of the pad on the offside.

Really too dodgy for words....How did this not got investigated.

 

[Ind_Yeah]

Still?

Too many people want to get suckered by silly conspiracy theories and just ignore or don't understand simple concept of 2D vs 3D, trajectory etc.

 

[HitWicket]

Hello but this is the image you used before...
How come he is standing more leg side in this one?!

the other images still do not explain how the ball fell offside after hitting the middle of the pad,
and the momentum was towards legside, unless it hit on the inside of the pad on the offside.

Really too dodgy for words....How did this not got investigated.

The image you've quoted is the exact same frame as the one on the left of the splitscreen in my previous post.

The ball impacted on the pad somewhere between the middle of the pad and the outer offside edge of the pad therefore it's perfectly logical for it to fall to the offside.

 

[Cricketrenew]

Because you probably wouldnt approve of that either .... So hence asking you to link a image that you consider to be legit. Reading your posts it appears that you dont trust anybody. So can we see some links that you trust ?

It was indeed released by hawkeye ... see post 262 by [MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION] .... that image came from Hawkeye. They also re-checked the data and stood by their decision. Ofcourse since you are into conspiracies you probably think they were "bought" by BCCI ....

No I don't think BCCI bought anyone. I just think it takes an individual to tinker and get something completely different to what really happened.

Images don't add up...what the ball does after hitting the pad doesn't add up,
the ball angles do not add up.

Years ago people use to say the umpire is always right but we now know how the that ended up.
Luckily we have neutral umpires...and when they are good no one has any complaints.
DRS has improved the game but this decision doesn't go into the norm.

If you know where the data is from Hawkeye then point me towards it...I will get some academics on it.

Regarding conspiracies:
1. I do not trust the ICC as they have not caught anyone match fixing by themselves,
2. Throwing of the ball they do not release the actual guidelines nor do they test everyone.
3. I question what is happening in a match and in the past I have been proved right on dodgy things.

 

[HitWicket]

No I don't think BCCI bought anyone. I just think it takes an individual to tinker and get something completely different to what really happened.

Images don't add up...what the ball does after hitting the pad doesn't add up,
the ball angles do not add up.

Once again, I don't see how the fact that a ball that hit the pad somewhere between the offside edge of the pad and the centre of the pad (which in itself was slightly inclined towards the off side) falling towards the off side doesn't add up.

Similarly how does a ball travelling in a straight line from it hit the pad not have its angles add up.

 

[Tusker]

No I don't think BCCI bought anyone. I just think it takes an individual to tinker and get something completely different to what really happened.

Images don't add up...what the ball does after hitting the pad doesn't add up,
the ball angles do not add up.

Years ago people use to say the umpire is always right but we now know how the that ended up.
Luckily we have neutral umpires...and when they are good no one has any complaints.
DRS has improved the game but this decision doesn't go into the norm.

If you know where the data is from Hawkeye then point me towards it...I will get some academics on it.

Regarding conspiracies:
1. I do not trust the ICC as they have not caught anyone match fixing by themselves,
2. Throwing of the ball they do not release the actual guidelines nor do they test everyone.
3. I question what is happening in a match and in the past I have been proved right on dodgy things.

Evidence of HawkEye reviewing the decision based on raw data : https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2011/apr/06/hawk-eye-sachin-tendulkar-lbw-reprieve

And here is the image that will settle the issue as it compares original versus conspiricy theories:

 

[Mp812]

Hacked and changed trajectory in about 4 minutes.Thats awesome hacking skills. Besides hacker also know future ..probably astrology.....exactly when this sachin lbw was going to happen and what was going t happen and he had already planned how to find a counter measure. Incredibly awesome IT skills or incredibly awesome conspiracy theory???????

 

[Cricketrenew]

Evidence of HawkEye reviewing the decision based on raw data : https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2011/apr/06/hawk-eye-sachin-tendulkar-lbw-reprieve

And here is the image that will settle the issue as it compares original versus conspiricy theories:

Hang on the ball was going to miss middle stump (green line) )
wow Ajmal must have been a big spinner of the ball maybe he was swinging the ball too!

The data is not available and I am sure Hawkeye were not going to say our product is open to coercion!!!
the decision was wrong that was never gonna happen.....as they were trying to get their
technology into all games.

Let agree to disagree.....but the overturn was dodgy.

 

[Cricketrenew]

Once again, I don't see how the fact that a ball that hit the pad somewhere between the offside edge of the pad and the centre of the pad (which in itself was slightly inclined towards the off side) falling towards the off side doesn't add up.

Similarly how does a ball travelling in a straight line from it hit the pad not have its angles add up.

Ok lets agree to disagree.....the ball would not have fallen where it did if it was missing.

Its easy to manipulate the a straight ie where it starts where it finishes, the mid image hit on the pads adds to the confusion as the exact impact is not shown but guessed. One thing is for the images I have seen on this website further point out the fact something dodgy went on....

 

[Cricketrenew]

Hang on the ball was going to miss middle stump (green line) )
wow Ajmal must have been a big spinner of the ball maybe he was swinging the ball too!

The data is not available and I am sure Hawkeye were not going to say our product is open to coercion!!!
the decision was wrong that was never gonna happen.....as they were trying to get their
technology into all games.

Let agree to disagree.....but the overturn was dodgy.

I meant to say yellow line....

 

[HitWicket]

Ok lets agree to disagree.....the ball would not have fallen where it did if it was missing.

Its easy to manipulate the a straight ie where it starts where it finishes, the mid image hit on the pads adds to the confusion as the exact impact is not shown but guessed. One thing is for the images I have seen on this website further point out the fact something dodgy went on....

It's not easy to manipulate a straight line when you have the point at which it pitched and the point of impact because then it wouldn't be a straight line...

Once again you don't seen to be able to explain how a ball that hit a pad, inclined to the off side, somewhere between its outside edge and the middle of the pad can't possibly fall on the off side.

And what are you on about with the yellow line? The blue one is the genuine one.

 

[Cricketrenew]

It's not easy to manipulate a straight line when you have the point at which it pitched and the point of impact because then it wouldn't be a straight line...

Once again you don't seen to be able to explain how a ball that hit a pad, inclined to the off side, somewhere between its outside edge and the middle of the pad can't possibly fall on the off side.

And what are you on about with the yellow line? The blue one is the genuine one.

Not easy to manipulate...so you admit it is possible!

Your images posted earlier gave it a away the pre hit pad image shows the ball hit middle and off.
A frame later the post hit image the ball has gone on to middle stump in one frame but you are convinced it is not possible to manipulate a straight line. How can a ball move that much in one frame also if it is going leg side on post impact image then does it swing back with the wind?

I am really unconvinced but lets leave at that.

 

[Mp812]

Ajmal should have appealed for batsman obstructing the field during a run out attempt . He had better chance of verdict going his way in that sense )

 

[HitWicket]

Not easy to manipulate...so you admit it is possible!

Your images posted earlier gave it a away the pre hit pad image shows the ball hit middle and off.
A frame later the post hit image the ball has gone on to middle stump in one frame but you are convinced it is not possible to manipulate a straight line. How can a ball move that much in one frame also if it is going leg side on post impact image then does it swing back with the wind?

I am really unconvinced but lets leave at that.

No, in one frame the ball has already hit the pad and moved off into the off side. The hall shown in the 2nd image is the electronically overlayed point of impact. The image from the frame before image shows the ball on the line of middle and off therefore as the hall travels a bit further after that frame it moves a short distance over to middle stump in that time.

What are you on about with it swinging with the wind? It hits him on middle stump (with his pad inclined towards the off side and hits him somewhere between the outside edge and middle of the pad therefore falls into the off side) and continues to travel along the predicted path in a straight line after hitting the pad which takes it just past the leg stump.