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Shoaib Malik and Mohammad Hafeez - Why opt for experience over competency?

adil79

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لَّیْسَ لِلْاِنْسَانِ اِلاّٰ مَا سَعٰی. (Man gets whatever he strives for) (quran)

When i look at england, i see a squad where anyone can win a match for england and they are all contributors. Good on western societies & now india too, to build a team full of competent person.

You see, sports is only an extension of how they go about in real life. They plan ahead, while we do when end is nigh. Like, they start training & finalizing for world cup 1 year ahead.

I wonder how many competents england or australia sacrificed (and now india) over some nobody for sifarish or money? Can we be honest to ourselves and stop joking with others, as we focus on our team?

How can we expect our team to win world cup series when other nations have implemented a scientific & logical approach in building them/their teams while we leave everything to luck & prayers? We don't even try to be better at sports but we expect tournament titles.

It's almost like expecting to win a lottery instead of making an effort. You see such attitude not only in sports, but almost every field in our country and that's the reason we are behind.

We know what Malik & Hafeez bring to the team. If i see 10/3 inside 5 overs, can you expect both of them to contribute for a par score? or do you see them getting out before reaching double figures/digits? Can they negate new ball? What happened to their performance against Afghanistan?

If i were a selector, i would rather include any person who haven't been a tested failure than these guys. If they dont perform, fine, test a new bench. and if they don't, try another.

All the domestic talent we have, do you think they don't get discouraged when they see this? And we say, it's because there is no international cricket in pakistan. That's again not true. When you don't value merit, you see people valuing hard work or effort give up.
 
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Hafeez has played well for us and never gets the praise he deserves. You have to remember this was a warm up game and Hafeez is coming back into the side after a long time off so he needs a few games and a bit of time out in the middle. Hafeez will definitely come good and he can hit big when needed to. Before he got Injured he was playing really well and middling every bowl. He needs time and I am sure he will come good. Hafeez plenty of times has stepped up in pressure situations and also in other situations when we have made a good start and he then hits big later in the innings.

However I don’t think the same can be said for Malik, he has been poor over the last few years and has not played a match winning innings in what feels like forever. His performance is consistently below par and he needs to be dropped from the team. The way I see it he is wasting a spot.
 
لَّیْسَ لِلْاِنْسَانِ اِلاّٰ مَا سَعٰی. (Man gets whatever he strives for) (quran)

When i look at england, i see a squad where anyone can win a match for england and they are all contributors. Good on western societies & now india too, to build a team full of competent person.

You see, sports is only an extension of how they go about in real life. They plan ahead, while we do when end is nigh. Like, they start training & finalizing for world cup 1 year ahead.

I wonder how many competents england or australia sacrificed (and now india) over some nobody for sifarish or money? Can we be honest to ourselves and stop joking with others, as we focus on our team?

How can we expect our team to win world cup series when other nations have implemented a scientific & logical approach in building them/their teams while we leave everything to luck & prayers? We don't even try to be better at sports but we expect tournament titles.

It's almost like expecting to win a lottery instead of making an effort. You see such attitude not only in sports, but almost every field in our country and that's the reason we are behind.

We know what Malik & Hafeez bring to the team. If i see 10/3 inside 5 overs, can you expect both of them to contribute for a par score? or do you see them getting out before reaching double figures/digits? Can they negate new ball? What happened to their performance against Afghanistan?

If i were a selector, i would rather include any person who haven't been a tested failure than these guys. If they dont perform, fine, test a new bench. and if they don't, try another.

All the domestic talent we have, do you think they don't get discouraged when they see this? And we say, it's because there is no international cricket in pakistan. That's again not true. When you don't value merit, you see people valuing hard work or effort give up.

First thing is it safeguards Sarfaraz, MA and Inzi. By including "experience" in XI, there are more candidates to share blame for a loss. One will divert a blame to other, who will divert it to another and so on. In the end, you won't be able to identify the mistake and chief culprit.

Secondly, global tournaments are a tricky journey of ups and down phases. It's all rosy if you are up but when you are down, only experience will help you. In these circumstances it's more important regardless of quality (Of course quality will be gold dust).
 
Malik and Hafeez will lose us games.They were useless against Afghanistan in the warm up match.There was no need to go aerial.they could have hit boundaries instead of going for big sixes.Had we score around 290 Afghanistan would have lost the match.
 
Ideally only one of them should have been selected, that one being Hafeez.

The experience notion is B.S

1.Imam Ul Haq
2.Fakhar Zaman
3.Babar Azam
4.Haris Sohail
5.Sarfraz Ahmed
6.Mohammad Hafeez
7.Imad Wasim
8.Shadab Khan
9.Hasan Ali
10.Wahab Riaz
11.Mohammad Amir

batting till 11
 
Not really sure what is the point of the OP. If you had the choice of competency, why would you go for experience? Title is misleading, there is no proof that there is competency available to the selectors. Would be better if OP asked a better question like why not go for new solution or experiment rather than stick with TTFs.
 
Malik sill physically very fit, like any young cricketer and in the absence of a Kohli or Williamson waiting in then wings ,team needs him. His form has been OK to keep him in the team. He is capable of clearing the boundaries and best players against spin which teams will face a lot, in middle overs.

As the team is handicapped with captain like Sarfraz, we need Malik in the team to help him.

Hafeez is mulch older and liability in the field and has not played much cricket recently due to injury. Even in his younger days, he had very poor record against quality bowling out side Asia, he should not be in playing 11.
 
The problem is our team management and selectors often fail to hold their nerve when results go south and the media harken for the recall of these seniors.
 
The problem is our team management and selectors often fail to hold their nerve when results go south and the media harken for the recall of these seniors.

Inzamam is there to make sure Hafeez and Malik are in the squad, even if Pakistan had won the England series Malik and Hafeez would be in the team.

Inzamam as captain could'nt drop Hafeez when his average was 18.60 as opener, same with Malik.
[MENTION=149706]adil79[/MENTION]

Domestic batting talent is already demoralized and devastated, after the chief selector, new PCB chairman is trying to strangulate the merit by handing over domestic setup to babus in the regional associations.
 
its a societal problem, pakistani society is totally non-individualistic and hierarchical, in desi society you are expected to treat your elders (even if older by a few years) reverentially, even if at the cost of doing whats right.

by extension you cannot openly criticise seniors, even if its warranted, and therefore if you try to raise an issue it will be easy to sell the image of you being a trouble maker, or "ochha", "sar-phirra", etc.

it is what happened with younis khan, shoaib to some extent, and some others.

from a survival point of view, hafeez and malik have had to contribute far less than many other players who've gone by the wayside simply because they know how to behave within that social construct. hafeez still warrants selection in the squad imo tho.
 
I am not going to judge Malik or Hafeez on one warm up game as that is foolish .

All I will say is Hafeez and Malik both average in the 20s when it comes to Icc tournaments and they have both played about 5 each . Hafeez looks good when on song but he will fail in a pressure situation. Both mediocre players who have managed to play 300 plus games for Pak 🤦*♂️
 
Should compete with Imad and Shadab, both are bowling allrounders and would be decent batting for 7/8 fireworks. Top six they are not, we have better options now
 
Hafeez is the best hitter/finisher we have in Pakistan right now. Don't believe me just go watch his 70 odd of 60 deliveries against SA where no one batted at above run a ball, and we were chasing 270 and it was a very tense match in the end. He steered the ship and built his innings beautifully. Hafeez coming out to the middle after 30 overs is a very useful Hafeez. Hafeez coming out pre 20 overs is pretty ordinary which is why he should be batting at 6.
 
Malik and Hafeez will come good when it matters.
 
Malik being selected for the tournament is beyond a joke. And this is coming from someone who likes Malik.
 
لَّیْسَ لِلْاِنْسَانِ اِلاّٰ مَا سَعٰی. (Man gets whatever he strives for) (quran)

When i look at england, i see a squad where anyone can win a match for england and they are all contributors. Good on western societies & now india too, to build a team full of competent person.

You see, sports is only an extension of how they go about in real life. They plan ahead, while we do when end is nigh. Like, they start training & finalizing for world cup 1 year ahead.

I wonder how many competents england or australia sacrificed (and now india) over some nobody for sifarish or money? Can we be honest to ourselves and stop joking with others, as we focus on our team?

How can we expect our team to win world cup series when other nations have implemented a scientific & logical approach in building them/their teams while we leave everything to luck & prayers? We don't even try to be better at sports but we expect tournament titles.

It's almost like expecting to win a lottery instead of making an effort. You see such attitude not only in sports, but almost every field in our country and that's the reason we are behind.

We know what Malik & Hafeez bring to the team. If i see 10/3 inside 5 overs, can you expect both of them to contribute for a par score? or do you see them getting out before reaching double figures/digits? Can they negate new ball? What happened to their performance against Afghanistan?

If i were a selector, i would rather include any person who haven't been a tested failure than these guys. If they dont perform, fine, test a new bench. and if they don't, try another.

All the domestic talent we have, do you think they don't get discouraged when they see this? And we say, it's because there is no international cricket in pakistan. That's again not true. When you don't value merit, you see people valuing hard work or effort give up.

Hit the nail on the head here and really does sum up the mindset in Pakistan cricket very well.

It's imperative Pakistan cricket is secularised, but ever since Inzy took over as captain in 2003 we have seen him allow the infiltration of the team from groups with "other interests" shall we say without going into too much detail, as I don't wish to promote their agenda(s). Since the pre-03 days, the team has drifted away from star quality to meek characters.

Along with this, the seniority culture is preventing a system of meritocracy to flourish.

We can improve domestic pitches, coaches, infrastructure + facilities and overhaul the cricket structure, however we will not see much improvement until meritocracy flourishes from grass roots to the highest level of the game.
 
Malik and Hafeez will come good when it matters.

They might or they might not. One thing is for sure, far more chance of them doing it than any of the other so called finishers who are in this squad. At least they have actually hit their way to victory in previous games even if it only happened once in a while.
 
I wish them both well. Although I must admit have a little concern over Malik. Just hope he will not let us down when we really need him.
 
Tbh, I do feel if they flopped in the England series they could have been dropped. But they both performed decently. We have to back them now. And to be fair to Hafeez, since his ODI recall he's done well for us
 
Hafeez is required as an allrounder and should play every game. He should bat at 4 and bowl his full 10 over quota. Maik shoud only play aslgainst the asian sides and bat at 5. Against the SENA teams malik should be replaced by haris sohail.
 
I would playboth against westindies they could share 10 to 15 overs and make handy runs in the middle order. malik can sneak out 30 to 40 runs and hafeez can make a half century. Considering the failure of the young talent to come through at a world class level, I would opt for experience now.
 
I would playboth against westindies they could share 10 to 15 overs and make handy runs in the middle order. malik can sneak out 30 to 40 runs and hafeez can make a half century. Considering the failure of the young talent to come through at a world class level, I would opt for experience now.
I agree, play both against asian sides and WI.
Well thought out by you sir, i wish our think tank do this but they must not play malik vs SENA teams, haris sohail is a must in his place.
 
Just some stats for Hafeez in ODIs:

Last 2 years: 40 @ 87 SR

(Last 4 years)
Team batting first: 42 @ 89 SR
Team batting second: 39 @ 81 SR

Batting at #4: 33 @ 84 SR

Outside Asia: 37 @ 86 SR
 
its a societal problem, pakistani society is totally non-individualistic and hierarchical, in desi society you are expected to treat your elders (even if older by a few years) reverentially, even if at the cost of doing whats right.

by extension you cannot openly criticise seniors, even if its warranted, and therefore if you try to raise an issue it will be easy to sell the image of you being a trouble maker, or "ochha", "sar-phirra", etc.

it is what happened with younis khan, shoaib to some extent, and some others.

from a survival point of view, hafeez and malik have had to contribute far less than many other players who've gone by the wayside simply because they know how to behave within that social construct. hafeez still warrants selection in the squad imo tho.

Good post. In our culture acting entitled will grant you certain entitlements. I'm sure the idea of dropping either player is terrifying for those who have to make that decision. Malik for sure will be given a few games to fail in before Haris or Asif can get a look in.
 
To be really frank, the World Cup is not the time to experiment. If Pakistan wanted to make a sea change they should have done it post 2015 WC like England did. If you look at the England team, they have all been playing for a while.
 
Disasters like today is why you need experience.

Shobby being missed.
 
Harris is the most overrated player never seen him score when Pakistan need
 
Agree

I dare someone question Maliks spot in the team for lets just say all the remaining games now

I'm sooo scared but I'll muster some courage and question his spot in the entire squad or preliminary 30 let alone the starting eleven.
 
Agree

I dare someone question Maliks spot in the team for lets just say all the remaining games now

He is a must in the XI.

Otherwise there is no point having him in the squad.
 
There is literally no captain in this tournament (barring Pakistan) who would say ‘these two can walk in to my team’
 
When the chips are down your Bhaijaan will back Shobbh or Haffy over Harris/Asif/Mohammad
 
Happened again. Malik failed. Always prefer competency over experience.
 
This game sums up seniority hurts Pakistan. It took a complete shocker to drop Malik, yet they still feel they can rely on hafeez
 
Both should haven't played after 2011 but here we are in 2019 and they are still here and we are "benefitting" from their experience.
 
Ehsan Mani should've had an oversight committee to look at decisions of the selectors. Senior or not these 2 are worse batsmen than west indies. Ignorance of higher ups cost Pakistan, Wahab Riaz inclusion should also be probed when faheem, Shinwari and Junaid were being prepared for the odi team.
 
The expected reply from apologists:

“We are 2nd from bottom. Without seniors we would be last! There is no talent.”
we did give chances to a batsamn whi was on 12th number score wise , he proved to be way better than others, If qe have done that to other younger and hungry player qe qould have done better who knows.
 
Considering the options we had Hafeez should have been in the team but never over Harris. Malik's selection was a joke though
 
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