Shoaib Malik Support & Performance Watch

[Easa]

As far as I'm concerned, we should probably let him be.

Malik's gonna play in the Asia Cup - as posters on a cricket board, we really have no say in this. It would be prudent to hope for the best, to hope that he scores some runs, cements his position at one down, and goes back to the form he displayed from 2004-2007 in ODI cricket. If it's for the betterment of our team, and it helps our team win matches, and it keeps out trash batsmen like Faisal Iqbal and Misbah Ul-Haq, who am I to complain?

We're gonna know in a few days if he lets the bat talking.

 

[*sallu*]

It would be prudent to hope for the best, to hope that he scores some runs, cements his position at one down

That is if he doesn't pull out of a match this time around if hes made to bat at 3

 

[Easa]

That is if he doesn't pull out of a match this time around if hes made to bat at 3

I'm not in a position to comment on that, because I don't know the real story, and neither do you. It would be naive to think that Malik is an angel, and I definitely don't think that. But this is Pakistan. A lot gets lost amongst translation; half-truths and lies dominate our masses. It's hard to know what to believe and what to shelve as propaganda.

As far as I'm concerned, if the Captain asks him to do something, he'll do it. Yousuf was clearly out of it while captaincy - he had absolutely no control over any of his team but Afridi won't be the same, and I think Malik will have a good run of it under him.

 

[*sallu*]

As far as I'm concerned, if the Captain asks him to do something, he'll do it. Yousuf was clearly out of it while captaincy - he had absolutely no control over any of his team but Afridi won't be the same, and I think Malik will have a good run of it under him.

For the sake of Pakistan Cricket, I hope you are right

 

[Sledger]

But this is Pakistan. A lot gets lost amongst translation; half-truths and lies dominate our masses. It's hard to know what to believe and what to shelve as propaganda.

I'm not sure if you're being genuinely naive or just have the rose tinted specs glued on? How can things be 'lost in translation' when there were a number of players speaking against Malik? Are you honestly expecting the public, mass media et all to think each one was lying or mis-communicating evidence?

 

[*sallu*]

I'm not sure if you're being genuinely naive or just have the rose tinted specs glued on? How can things be 'lost in translation' when there were a number of players speaking against Malik? Are you honestly expecting the public, mass media et all to think each one was lying or mis-communicating evidence?

Yeah
I mean if 1 person says it, if 2 people says or even if 10 people say it, you might have some doubt

But if almost every friggin' person involved in Pakistan cricket says it, there is no doubt that Malik is right up there with all the dirt in Pakistan cricket

 

[cric_crazy]

he would be fixing matches and throwing matches there too haha.. i bet

speaking of bad apple..

he already did loose one match on purpose in domestic competition. And he admitted it in front of the media but still he gets away with things. looks to me he is more powerful than zardari. he is the father of all the sifarshis.....

 

[ItsMeK1]

Yeah
I mean if 1 person says it, if 2 people says or even if 10 people say it, you might have some doubt

But if almost every friggin' person involved in Pakistan cricket says it, there is no doubt that Malik is right up there with all the dirt in Pakistan cricket

Do you or anyone here on Pp know what Malik have to say against these allegations?

Adha Sach Puray Jhoot Se Zayada Khatenaak Houta Hai .. Half Truth Is More Dangerous Than Complete Lie ....

 

[cryptkeeper*]

I'm not sure if you're being genuinely naive or just have the rose tinted specs glued on? How can things be 'lost in translation' when there were a number of players speaking against Malik? Are you honestly expecting the public, mass media et all to think each one was lying or mis-communicating evidence?

You honestly think Malik single handedly has caused disruption after disruption amidst this team? Who are we kidding? Definitely, Malik is not an angel, I'm sure he caused his share of trouble but he certainly is not alone. there's a lot more to it, and I feel with all these reports against Malik in the past few mths, everyone basically found it fairly easy to target solely Malik in this whole fiasco.

Like I said again, Malik is no saint, but there has to be more to the story. Even Aaqib Javed said, Malik is definitely not alone in this.
Moreover, what has Malik exactly been doing? How has he been destroying the dressing room atmosphere? How can ONE guy all alone F up so much?

 

[cryptkeeper*]

Malik has had a lean patch for at least a year in int'l cricket, it's about time he scores like he once used. Really hope Malik plays to the best of his ability in this Asia Cup. That is the only way to shut up everyone who feels Malik is useless, utter trash etc. Malik used to be a decent odi cricketer for quite a few yrs. It's captaincy which screwed up his mind, other than that he doesn't deserve to be ranked with the likes of Farhat, Misbah, Hafeez, Iqbal etc. Malik is notches above them, and I believe he deserves one more chance to prove himself as he does have the potential to be one of our current best limited over cricketer.

 

[Easa]

I'm not sure if you're being genuinely naive or just have the rose tinted specs glued on? How can things be 'lost in translation' when there were a number of players speaking against Malik? Are you honestly expecting the public, mass media et all to think each one was lying or mis-communicating evidence?

Pakistan cricket is a mess right now and we, as people, always need a scapegoat. It's Malik right now. It was Afridi from 2007-2009, when he was going through a lean spell, and now it's Malik.

Everyone loves a target: it's easy to dump all your problems onto them. But when they start performing, the 'fans' start crawling out of the woodwork, pretending they never left!

 

[Sledger]

You honestly think Malik single handedly has caused disruption after disruption amidst this team?

Definitely, Malik is not an angel, I'm sure he caused his share of trouble but he certainly is not alone.

there's a lot more to it, and I feel with all these reports against Malik in the past few mths, everyone basically found it fairly easy to target solely Malik in this whole fiasco.

Even Aaqib Javed said, Malik is definitely not alone in this.

How can ONE guy all alone F up so much?

Errr, no. I haven't said Malik is alone in team disunity and the like but this thread seems to have a bit to do with him so I though it was relevant to post it here.

 

[cryptkeeper*]

Pakistan cricket is a mess right now and we, as people, always need a scapegoat. It's Malik right now. It was Afridi from 2007-2009, when he was going through a lean spell, and now it's Malik.

Everyone loves a target: it's easy to dump all your problems onto them. But when they start performing, the 'fans' start crawling out of the woodwork, pretending they never left!

Well said.

 

[Sledger]

Pakistan cricket is a mess right now and we, as people, always need a scapegoat. It's Malik right now. It was Afridi from 2007-2009, when he was going through a lean spell, and now it's Malik.

Negated.
This is where Intikhab's statements hold so much weight. He has nothing to gain from your scapegoat claims so I have no reason to think he's trying to pin everything on one player for no reason. Similarly, Abdul Qadir has nothing to do with the team but he too has voiced his opinion on Malik throughout his tenure as captain. Too much evidence against, not enough for to suggest Malik is being made a victim.

 

[Black Zero]

Negated.
This is where Intikhab's statements hold so much weight. He has nothing to gain from your scapegoat claims so I have no reason to think he's trying to pin everything on one player for no reason. Similarly, Abdul Qadir has nothing to do with the team but he too has voiced his opinion on Malik throughout his tenure as captain. Too much evidence against, not enough for to suggest Malik is being made a victim.

Incorrect. He is saving his own @$$.

 

[Sledger]

Incorrect. He is saving his own @$$.

You're forgetting he's already lost his job. :younis

 

[fawad_wellwisher]

How can he be considered a scapegoat when he is back in the team while those who accused him of wrong doing are still trying to clear their names in court.

 

[cryptkeeper*]

Errr, no. I haven't said Malik is alone in team disunity and the like but this thread seems to have a bit to do with him so I though it was relevant to post it here.

When you're going to ask how things are "lost in translation," then I guess you need to be reminded that one person can not be the root cause of the mess we're currently in. Newsflash, Malik IS the only one targeted constantly for disrupting this team and the criticism he SOLELY faces is beyond me. I don't know about you, but I do feel there's a lot "lost in translation."

 

[cryptkeeper*]

How can he be considered a scapegoat when he is back in the team while those who accused him of wrong doing are still trying to clear their names in court.

Maybe because Younis Khan's hearing has been postponed once again to June 5th? whereas Malik's was on May 29th (after being postponed as well)?

 

[Sledger]

When you're going to ask how things are "lost in translation," then I guess you need to be reminded that one person can not be the root cause of the mess we're currently in. Newsflash, Malik IS the only one targeted constantly for disrupting this team and the criticism he SOLELY faces is beyond me. I don't know about you, but I do feel there's a lot "lost in translation."

Malik gets the biggest amount of blame, he's not the only one though. Go back and watch the inquiry videos and the amount of mentions the Akmals, Butt, Rana etc get. When asked to identify what they think is the biggest problems the players and staff mostly chose Malik, that's why his name is at the fore.

 

[cryptkeeper*]

You're forgetting he's already lost his job. :younis

Then why didn't Alam speak about all this mess while he was our coach? Don't forget not only did he mention a whole lot on Malik after he lost his job he had a whole lot to say about this entire "retarded" team. If he was so concerned about the well being of this team, then I'd buy what he had to say while he was coach. If there was so much trouble w/in the team while he was coach then I fail to understand why he didn't take a stand WHILE he had his job.

 

[cryptkeeper*]

Malik gets the biggest amount of blame, he's not the only one though. Go back and watch the inquiry videos and the amount of mentions the Akmals, Butt, Rana etc get. When asked to identify what they think is the biggest problems the players and staff mostly chose Malik, that's why his name is at the fore.

As far as I know I only heard/read about Yousuf and Afridi mentioning Malik's name when it comes to players.

No, the amount of blame Malik has gotten is at a total different level. Everyone knows Malik is this "termite" within the team, but what exactly has he been doing all this time to F up everything? No one really knows.

 

[Sledger]

Then why didn't Alam speak about all this mess while he was our coach? Don't forget not only did he mention a whole lot on Malik after he lost his job he had a whole lot to say about this entire "retarded" team. If he was so concerned about the well being of this team, then I'd buy what he had to say while he was coach. If there was so much trouble w/in the team while he was coach then I fail to understand why he didn't take a stand WHILE he had his job.

Because it would have been a lose lose situation. Think about it - Inti blames Malik for poor discipline while still working as coach, yet he oversaw the [last] Hobart test match in which Malik was recalled. Had he made the statement at the end of the tour (while his job was still in tact) he would be destroyed for overseeing Malik's promotion as captain for the T20 game.
By doing it once he's seperated his entity from the side, he has nothing to gain and, perhaps more importantly to him, nothing to lose.

 

[Easa]

Negated.
This is where Intikhab's statements hold so much weight. He has nothing to gain from your scapegoat claims so I have no reason to think he's trying to pin everything on one player for no reason. Similarly, Abdul Qadir has nothing to do with the team but he too has voiced his opinion on Malik throughout his tenure as captain. Too much evidence against, not enough for to suggest Malik is being made a victim.

You're going to take Intikhab Alam and Abdul Qadir seriously?

What's next, you're gonna quote Sarfraz Nawaz as an argument-clincher?

 

[Sledger]

You're going to take Intikhab Alam and Abdul Qadir seriously?

Yes. I have a lot of respect and time for what Qadir, in particular, has to say.

Please don't overexaggerate in comparisons to Schizo Nawaz to try and add credibility to your point. I think we both know he's in a league of his own.

 

[cryptkeeper*]

Because it would have been a lose lose situation. Think about it - Inti blames Malik for poor discipline while still working as coach, yet he oversaw the [last] Hobart test match in which Malik was recalled. Had he made the statement at the end of the tour (while his job was still in tact) he would be destroyed for overseeing Malik's promotion as captain for the T20 game.
By doing it once he's seperated his entity from the side, he has nothing to gain and, perhaps more importantly to him, nothing to lose.

Maybe, but..

This is the same person who had so much to say about the entire team, not just Malik, after he lost his job. Furthermore, besides losing his job has Inti been punished in any way for the disastrous Aus tour? No, it's only the players that have been targeted and I feel Inti found it all a perfect way for the PCB to neglect any of his own mistakes while he had the job. Being the coach, Inti had a responsibility to help the players for the better as much as possible. What's the use in coming out saying well, this team is so retarded all they do is argue, this and that etc, after you've lost your job? What were you doing, Inti? watching the drama?

Point is, I don't find Inti a reliable source by any means, but that's just me.

 

[Easa]

Yes. I have a lot of respect and time for what Qadir, in particular, has to say.

Please don't overexaggerate in comparisons to Schizo Nawaz to try and add credibility to your point. I think we both know he's in a league of his own.

I don't take either one of them very seriously.

Qadir's come out with some strange comments since he resigned/got fired/was asked to leave.

And my point? My point is that Malik is not the only one involved - we could be making him a scapegoat. My other point is: if we're gonna completely write Malik off as 'pathetic', a 'joke', an 'excuse for a human being' etc etc, we're gonna have to apply the same standards to every other player involved in this mess. It doesn't really matter if the players have started pointing fingers at Malik - that's what they do. They did it with Inzamam, they did it with Younis, they did it with Yousuf.

 

[Sledger]

This is the same person who had so much to say about the entire team, not just Malik, after he lost his job. Furthermore, besides losing his job has Inti been punished in any way for the disastrous Aus tour? No, it's only the players that have been targeted and I feel Inti found it all a perfect way for the PCB to neglect any of his own mistakes while he had the job. Being the coach, Inti had a responsibility to help the players for the better as much as possible. What's the use in coming out saying well, this team is so retarded all they do is argue, this and that etc, after you've lost your job? What were you doing, Inti? watching the drama?

Don't get me wrong, I'm annoyed that Inti slipped away so easily but I still don't have a reason not believe his singling out of 'negative' Malik nor his retard comments are based on any desire to scapegoat one or a group of individuals.

 

[Sledger]

I don't take either one of them very seriously.

Qadir's come out with some strange comments since he resigned/got fired/was asked to leave.

Personally, I take them more seriously than fans who've never been involved with the side.

It doesn't really matter if the players have started pointing fingers at Malik - that's what they do. They did it with Inzamam, they did it with Younis, they did it with Yousuf.

I think you'll struggle to find a cricketer in Pakistan's recent history who has been as widely criticised as Malik be it from players, coaches, former staff and the rest.

 

[Black Zero]

You're forgetting he's already lost his job. :younis

No I am not, but you ignoring direct conflict of interesst.
He needed a scapgoat otherwise he had to accept he was one hell of incompetent coach.

don't play plain.

 

[Sledger]

No I am not, but you ignoring direct conflict of interesst.
He needed a scapgoat otherwise he had to accept he was one hell of incompetent coach.

don't play plain.

Point already noted/explained in #361.

 

[Easa]

Personally, I take them more seriously than fans who've never been involved with the side.

That's neither here nor there.

I think you'll struggle to find a cricketer in Pakistan's recent history who has been as widely criticised as Malik be it from players, coaches, former staff and the rest.

I was talking about making a cricketer a scapegoat - it happens all the time in our circles. It's even happened to magnificent cricketers like Javed and Imran and Inzamam. If they didn't escape the criticism and the scapegoat tag, do you honestly think someone as insignificant as Malik will?

The axe had to fall on someone and Malik was there with his neck outstretched.

 

[Sledger]

It's even happened to magnificent cricketers like Javed and Imran and Inzamam. If they didn't escape the criticism and the scapegoat tag, do you honestly think someone as insignificant as Malik will?

Moot point. I don't think Malik is being made a scapegoat full stop.

The axe had to fall on someone and Malik was there with his neck outstretched.

He should have kept his neck in then.

 

[Easa]

He should have kept his neck in then.

Probably the first valid thing you've said in this thread.

 

[*sallu*]

Pakistan cricket is a mess right now and we, as people, always need a scapegoat. It's Malik right now. It was Afridi from 2007-2009, when he was going through a lean spell, and now it's Malik.

Everyone loves a target: it's easy to dump all your problems onto them. But when they start performing, the 'fans' start crawling out of the woodwork, pretending they never left!

The team needed a scapegoat?

You know who the team itself decided the scapegoat should be after the Sri Lanka tour

Mr.Younis Khan.
They decided lets just blame the one person, and we can all keep our places to ourselves, and you know, who was one of them at the forefront when this decision was taken Younis Khan.

I mean its ridiculous that you think that the entire Pakistan population is being made into a fool and Malik is a poor soul who has been hard done.
Even after cricketers (Rana) have admitted to under performing to undermine the captain you refuse to see the light.

Malik is an average international cricketer, but really, hes an excuse for a person

 

[Black Zero]

The team needed a scapegoat?

You know who the team itself decided the scapegoat should be after the Sri Lanka tour

Mr.Younis Khan.
They decided lets just blame the one person, and we can all keep our places to ourselves, and you know, who was one of them at the forefront when this decision was taken Younis Khan.

I mean its ridiculous that you think that the entire Pakistan population is being made into a fool and Malik is a poor soul who has been hard done.
Even after cricketers (Rana) have admitted to under performing to undermine the captain you refuse to see the light.

Malik is an average international cricketer, but really, hes an excuse for a person

Good for Malik as you used to call him garbage etc.

 

[Sultan Yusuf]

Both points noted but not taken.
Claims are made in thin air.

Please, wake up and smell the coffee, toast, andey whatever! How naive can one be?

After all the testimonies, acceptance of the offence, admissions of guilt you've either got to be in love with him, be a close relative or just plain stupid to think he's innocent of being the "ringleader" in all of this!!

Unless of course you are him yourself!

 

[*sallu*]

Please, wake up and smell the coffee, toast, andey whatever! How naive can one be?

After all the testominies, acceptance of the offence, admissions of guilt you've either got to be in love with him, be a close relative or just plain stupid to think he's innocent of being the "ringleader" in all of this!!

Unless of course you are him yourself!

or maybe hes Shoaib Malik himself in disguise because I don't think even his lovers or relatives could defend him in such a way

 

[Black Zero]

he already did loose one match on purpose in domestic competition. And he admitted it in front of the media but still he gets away with things. looks to me he is more powerful than zardari. he is the father of all the sifarshis.....

and he did not do for money.
and he was captain himself.
he did to protest against the system and he was right then and still.
There were too many umpiring issues even this year in domestic circuit.

Your allegation is just like sarfraz uses against Imran. Grow up.

 

[Black Zero]

Please, wake up and smell the coffee, toast, andey whatever! How naive can one be?

After all the testimonies, acceptance of the offence, admissions of guilt you've either got to be in love with him, be a close relative or just plain stupid to think he's innocent of being the "ringleader" in all of this!!

Unless of course you are him yourself!

Acceptance of offence??

I said do not waste your keystrokes. you are no kid any more to make stupid remarks.

anyway can reply your rant with following (but i wont):
"Well to me you seem extremely stupid plus was in love with Malik he dumped you and now you are bitter and playing Ayesha Siddiqui at PP."

Next time I wont respond any of your rants.
You need to improve your thinking.

 

[Black Zero]

or maybe hes Shoaib Malik himself in disguise because I don't think even his lovers or relatives could defend him in such a way

Or maybe it's very easy to defend Malik as no real evidence against him.

Do not forget Jang's recent articles (media assassination) against him.
Even they announced their 15 players and excluded Malik.

I stopped believing Pakistani media and state, when i was 12. You should too.

 

[Sultan Yusuf]

Acceptance of offence??

I said do not waste your keystrokes. you are no kid any more to make stupid remarks.

anyway can reply your rant with following (but i wont):
"Well to me you seem extremely stupid plus was in love with Malik he dumped you and now you are bitter and playing Ayesha Siddiqui at PP."

Next time I wont respond any of your rants.
You need to improve your thinking.

Errmm.....I'm not the one refusing to believe reality! The fool himself has admitted it, so who are you?

 

[Luton Bad Boy]

Errmm.....I'm not the one refusing to believe reality! The fool himself has admitted it, so who are you?

Anwaar poor fellow, has this deep love and infatuation for Shoaib Malik, it is kinda freaky..

SY, I too recall I was once supported this plonker considering he was a 'youngster' but, thanking the lord above, he was relieved of his captaincy duties and Pakistan cricket regained some sembelance...

However, I think the logic is that people support him, because he looks 'cool' and acts 'cool' but, in actual fact is the biggest fool in the Pakistani setup...

When will Shoaib Malik receive Indian citizenship, we will take him in exchange for any one of your IPL players please!!!!!!

 

[Prince_Pathan]

or maybe hes Shoaib Malik himself in disguise because I don't think even his lovers or relatives could defend him in such a way

seems like a reasonable explanation...and one which would make alot of sense

 

[Black Zero]

Anwaar poor fellow, has this deep love and infatuation for Shoaib Malik, it is kinda freaky..

SY, I too recall I was once supported this plonker considering he was a 'youngster' but, thanking the lord above, he was relieved of his captaincy duties and Pakistan cricket regained some sembelance...

However, I think the logic is that people support him, because he looks 'cool' and acts 'cool' but, in actual fact is the biggest fool in the Pakistani setup...

When will Shoaib Malik receive Indian citizenship, we will take him in exchange for any one of your IPL players please!!!!!!

Sorry boy, too many words, give me headache. Can't read, you must have written nice for malik, thanks,

 

[Sultan Yusuf]

Anwaar poor fellow, has this deep love and infatuation for Shoaib Malik, it is kinda freaky..

SY, I too recall I was once supported this plonker considering he was a 'youngster' but, thanking the lord above, he was relieved of his captaincy duties and Pakistan cricket regained some sembelance...

However, I think the logic is that people support him, because he looks 'cool' and acts 'cool' but, in actual fact is the biggest fool in the Pakistani setup...

When will Shoaib Malik receive Indian citizenship, we will take him in exchange for any one of your IPL players please!!!!!!

) Yes I remember it well!

And yes please, make malik an honorary indian citizen - he lives there anyway!

 

[Black Zero]

Errmm.....I'm not the one refusing to believe reality! The fool himself has admitted it, so who are you?

YK never admitted. I thought you like him and now calling him fool.

 

[Black Zero]

seems like a reasonable explanation...and one which would make alot of sense

Repetition!

 

[Prince_Pathan]

Repetition!

awh my bad...cry me a river shoaib

 

[Black Zero]

As promised I am back after Asia Cup.

I hope you still remember the first dataset when we established that Malik has the exact same test career path as of YK.

I will provide series of data set, the first one is to counter the Myth of Malik's vulnerability against new ball.


Malik's vulnerability against new ball


When I compared ALL the OPENERS ever played for Pakistan with Shoaib Malik. (qualification at least 5 tests as opener)

Malik averages higher than:

Hanif Muhammad
Shoaib Muhammad
Toufeeq Umer
Mohsin Khan
Majid Khan
Nazar Muhammad
Salman Butt
Farhat
Muddasar Nazir
Aamer Sohail
Sadiq Muhammad
Rameez
&
Ijaz butt


Infact, Malik averages higher than everybody else except Saeed Anwar and Tasleem Arif.

Malik's tests include against WI, Eng, SL, Ind.

[http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine...;size=10;team=7;template=results;type=batting

Thanks

 

[Paradox]

Good stats there Anwaar.

 

[IMMY69]

As promised I am back after Asia Cup.

I hope you still remember the first dataset when we established that Malik has the exact same test career path as of YK.

I will provide series of data set, the first one is to counter the Myth of Malik's vulnerability against new ball.


Malik's vulnerability against new ball


When I compared ALL the OPENERS ever played for Pakistan with Shoaib Malik. (qualification at least 5 tests as opener)

Malik averages higher than:

Hanif Muhammad
Shoaib Muhammad
Toufeeq Umer
Mohsin Khan
Majid Khan
Nazar Muhammad
Salman Butt
Farhat
Muddasar Nazir
Aamer Sohail
Sadiq Muhammad
Rameez
&
Ijaz butt


Infact, Malik averages higher than everybody else except Saeed Anwar and Tasleem Arif.

Malik's tests include against WI, Eng, SL, Ind.

[http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine...;size=10;team=7;template=results;type=batting

Thanks

7 matches as an opener...

I think you should go to spec savers mate - get yourself a new pair of glasses because if you can't see his glaring techinical deficiencies, even when he is playing on a flat,slow featherbed of a track in UAE, then there's gotta be something wrong with your eyesight!!

But hey, you maybe right..Malik may, will, gonna average 60+ in the next 20 odd test matches he plays in so that he also ends up with an average of 50 just like YK...NUMPTY!

 

[Black Zero]

7 matches as an opener...

I think you should go to spec savers mate - get yourself a new pair of glasses because if you can't see his glaring techinical deficiencies, even when he is playing on a flat,slow featherbed of a track in UAE, then there's gotta be something wrong with your eyesight!!

But hey, you maybe right..Malik may, will, gonna average 60+ in the next 20 odd test matches he plays in so that he also ends up with an average of 50 just like YK...NUMPTY!

I do not know if he would avg 60+ or 6 and I do not care much about unknown. IMMY69, stop diverting topic and focus on the issue in hand.
I presented the stats as it stands now.

If he is so weak against new ball, how come he averages higher than everybody (except saeed and tasleem) as an opener.

I will present data set about technique also but lets deal with "new ball" atm.

 

[saeed-sohail]

FFS Anwaar do you seriously think malik would have had 45+ test ave against warne mcgrath and co and 50+ against walsh ambrose and bishop like sohail did.As for him having better numbers the Hanif..........LOL.

 

[IMMY69]

I do not know if he would avg 60+ or 6 and I do not care much about unknown. IMMY69, stop diverting topic and focus on the issue in hand.
I presented the stats as it stands now.

If he is so weak against new ball, how come he averages higher than everybody (except saeed and tasleem) as an opener.

I will present data set about technique also but lets deal with "new ball" atm.

I think you need to refer to my post again....See my first line 'only 7 test matches as an opener' - I dont think anymore needs to be said, does it?

 

[sharaf katawazi]

hay who is malik.
........ oh sania mirza husband.he also plays cricket.is he bowler or batsman. ) ) ) )

 

[Black Zero]

I think you need to refer to my post again....See my first line 'only 7 test matches as an opener' - I dont think anymore needs to be said, does it?

He played ~25% of his tests as an opener.
Selecting in Squad and Picking him in Playing 11 is not his hand either(like his position).
He played total of only 29 matches and forced to play at almost every position (This happens when one is not regular).

Still, had it been 3 tests instead of 7, even then it would be enough to refute the Myth that "SM can not play new ball".

He had faced new ball 11 times and performed exceptionally well.

 

[Black Zero]

FFS Anwaar do you seriously think malik would have had 45+ test ave against warne mcgrath and co and 50+ against walsh ambrose and bishop like sohail did.As for him having better numbers the Hanif..........LOL.

Seriously, I do not know the exact answer.
Most likely not but maybe yes, Ijaz Ahmed produced his best against Aus, so you never know.


But the point of this stat is not to prove Malik better than other Pakistan greats but to show that Malik isn't bad either against "NEW BALL" as perceived here on PP.

Focus is on "NEW BALL", comparison is just to show that he fared well.

His technique is not smooth but if the purpose is not to get out and score then we should say, Job well done.

 

[IMMY69]

He played ~25% of his tests as an opener.
Selecting in Squad and Picking him in Playing 11 is not his hand either(like his position).
He played total of only 29 matches and forced to play at almost every position (This happens when one is not regular).

Still, had it been 3 tests instead of 7, even then it would be enough to refute the Myth that "SM can not play new ball".

He had faced new ball 11 times and performed exceptionally well.

Lets get the perception right first shall we???

- Its not about the new ball - its his technique against the quicker bowlers
and particularly against the short ball.
- The amount of tests he played as an opener is extremely important
and your perception, dare I say it, is pretty ridiculous. For one thing,
bowlers work out a batsman's technique over time and it could be
summised that bowlers around the world would have worked his faiilibity
against the short ball and outside his offstump and so his overall
average would have dropped..This can be regardless of the position he
bats in and is evidenced by the fact that his overall average is lower
then when he first started playing test matches.
- 7 test matches as an opener played against asian and non sub-
continental teams - but how many were actually played outside the sub-
continent?

Stats can be manipulated and read in whichever context you want but the beauty of the game is that people who truly appreciate and understand the game and the finer aspects such as techniques etc will point out his flaws against the short stuff and outside offstump - they'll also throw in his overall average and the fact that he is very much overhyped by certain quarters, namely the adolescent type groupie fans, much like yourself..

 

[sharaf katawazi]

may any body tell me who is malik.

 

[Prince_Pathan]

may any body tell me who is malik.

hes apparantly a class cricketer...i say apparantly with great scepticism

 

[Black Zero]

Lets get the perception right first shall we???

- Its not about the new ball - its his technique against the quicker bowlers
and particularly against the short ball.
- The amount of tests he played as an opener is extremely important
and your perception, dare I say it, is pretty ridiculous. For one thing,
bowlers work out a batsman's technique over time and it could be
summised that bowlers around the world would have worked his faiilibity
against the short ball and outside his offstump and so his overall
average would have dropped..This can be regardless of the position he
bats in and is evidenced by the fact that his overall average is lower
then when he first started playing test matches.
- 7 test matches as an opener played against asian and non sub-
continental teams - but how many were actually played outside the sub-
continent?

Re: technique you never backed your belief with any shred of data/evidence so these mean nothing objectively.

By the way, stay tuned and I'll present stats about technique some time during test series (I'll be doing your homework).

Whats wrong playing against non sub-continent teams (WI and Eng in this case). I do not know if you criticizing or praising him.

Re: 7 test matches, it's ~25% of his career (11 innings), it's lot more than an adequate sample set.

Re: Batsman worked-out by bowlers: well what about experience, confidence, and skills one acquires by playing regularly at that position.
It's a very specialist position and one can not be successful if he does not have the required skills.

Re: Manipulating stats: How could you blame me of this?
This is plain average comparison of all the Pakistani openers.
Where do you see manipulation?

 

[IMMY69]

Re: technique you never backed your belief with any shred of data/evidence so these mean nothing objectively.

By the way, stay tuned and I'll present stats about technique some time during test series (I'll be doing your homework).

Whats wrong playing against non sub-continent teams (WI and Eng in this case). I do not know if you criticizing or praising him.

Re: 7 test matches, it's ~25% of his career (11 innings), it's lot more than an adequate sample set.

Re: Batsman worked-out by bowlers: well what about experience, confidence, and skills one acquires by playing regularly at that position.
It's a very specialist position and one can not be successful if he does not have the required skills.

Re: Manipulating stats: How could you blame me of this?
This is plain average comparison of all the Pakistani openers.
Where do you see manipulation?

- How many times did he open outside of the subcontinent?
- By manipulation I meant that in this wonderful game one can often call it
right by just watching the bloke play rather then pulling out one portion
of stats to claim he is excellent against the new ball! I think you've missed his many many innings where he's been clueless outside the offstump and very circumspect against the short ball, and on slow wickets to boot! No doubt you'll say which Pakistany batsmen hasnt? Difference being that he's been around for ages and his overall record is **** poor, not just internationally but in firstclass cricket too!!

 

[Easa]

Difference being that he's been around for ages and his overall record is **** poor, not just internationally but in firstclass cricket too!!

This has been addressed countless times.

 

[IMMY69]

This has been addressed countless times.

Yes but clearly not well enough!!!

 

[cryptkeeper*]

Yes but clearly not well enough!!!

What part of Malik never originally was a batsman do you fail to comprehend? He did not play as a batsman in FC matches. This guy always played as an off break bowler and did the same when he originally got into the team. This has been mentioned countless times, yet people don't understand?

 

[Easa]

What part of Malik never originally was a batsman do you fail to comprehend? He did not play as a batsman in FC matches. This guy always played as an off break bowler and did the same when he originally got into the team. This has been mentioned countless times, yet people don't understand?

It's useless. I've attempted to reason with a lot of people here in the last 6 months.

 

[Sheikh_Ji]

I support Malik.....what everyone forgets is that during the year plus where we played no tests we did have plenty of 'A' Team tours and series, where the likes of Akmal and Fawad got plenty of opportunities to hone their skills. Malik and co had no such opportunities; all they had was Pak domestic cricket which we all have acknowledged does not prepare anyone for the rigours of test cricket.

Malik was not the best of captains....but he never lobbied for captaincy like most other have done in the past and still do. In the aftermath of his removal as captain when MoYo was very publicly having a go at Malik (amongst other) he maintained his silence leaving the issues where they belonged, out of the media spotlight.

I pledge my support for Malik...he is a fighter and a proven Limited Overs match winner. He has all the tools to succeed at test level. Although I do admit that at the moment he needs to be dropped from the test squad and he needs to go back to the domestic circuit (possibly an A tour or two) and pile on some runs

I officially withdraw my support!
All talk to instigating infighting notwithstanding...he doesn't deserve a place in the Test squad...certainly not over Younis Khan.

 

[IMMY69]

^^^^^^

He's made his debut 10 years ago and scored a century opening or batting at number 3 againstt eh Windies..So are you telling me that since then, over a 10 year period, he has batted in a tailenders slot in firstclass cricket?????

Is that why he averages 30 in firstclass cricket???

I have heard enough rubbish about this tailender turned batsmen stuff without any supporting evidence to suggest that he ha splayed the majority of his firstclass games at or below number 7! If you can provide this then I'll refrain from quoting his domestic stats which are undeniably rubbish for a batsman who has aspirations to be a top international batsman!

 

[cryptkeeper*]

It's useless. I've attempted to reason with a lot of people here in the last 6 months.

exactly. no point in even arguing with some people around here. same stuff over and over again yet people still ponder over why Malik was this, why Malik is that.

 

[Black Zero]

^^^^^^

He's made his debut 10 years ago and scored a century opening or batting at number 3 againstt eh Windies..So are you telling me that since then, over a 10 year period, he has batted in a tailenders slot in firstclass cricket?????

Is that why he averages 30 in firstclass cricket???

I have heard enough rubbish about this tailender turned batsmen stuff without any supporting evidence to suggest that he ha splayed the majority of his firstclass games at or below number 7! If you can provide this then I'll refrain from quoting his domestic stats which are undeniably rubbish for a batsman who has aspirations to be a top international batsman!

I do not support him playing FC matches. Please do not pick him in FC.

Can we come back to tests and most difficult position openers, if you do not object?

Why you trying escape routes, why not you respond the stats bravely like "brave YK"?

 

[Black Zero]

- How many times did he open outside of the subcontinent?
- By manipulation I meant that in this wonderful game one can often call it
right by just watching the bloke play rather then pulling out one portion
of stats to claim he is excellent against the new ball! I think you've missed his many many innings where he's been clueless outside the offstump and very circumspect against the short ball, and on slow wickets to boot! No doubt you'll say which Pakistany batsmen hasnt? Difference being that he's been around for ages and his overall record is **** poor, not just internationally but in firstclass cricket too!!

How many times did he open outside of the subcontinent? All the times when he was asked to open outside sub continent.

By manipulation I meant that in this wonderful game one can often call it
right by just watching the bloke play rather then pulling out one portion
of stats to claim he is excellent against the new ball!

IMMY69, I come here on PP for serious and fair discussion, manipulation would be the last thing that would come in to my mind. Plus, manipulation mean twisting and distorting the data by putting superficial conditions. I have added just one qualification and thats 5 tests, we can remove it but it would n't make any difference as it would still show he got higher averages than players i mentioned before.

I think you've missed his many many innings where he's been clueless outside the offstump and very circumspect against the short ball,

I agree that his style is not graceful and he tends to go to back-foot more than needed. But he has out performed openers who were more stylish.

I am not confusing performance with being stylish and I request to avoid this confusion too.

I couldn't get what you mean by last sentence.

 

[IMMY69]

How many times did he open outside of the subcontinent? All the times when he was asked to open outside sub continent.

By manipulation I meant that in this wonderful game one can often call it
right by just watching the bloke play rather then pulling out one portion
of stats to claim he is excellent against the new ball!

IMMY69, I come here on PP for serious and fair discussion, manipulation would be the last thing that would come in to my mind. Plus, manipulation mean twisting and distorting the data by putting superficial conditions. I have added just one qualification and thats 5 tests, we can remove it but it would n't make any difference as it would still show he got higher averages than players i mentioned before.

I think you've missed his many many innings where he's been clueless outside the offstump and very circumspect against the short ball,

I agree that his style is not graceful and he tends to go to back-foot more than needed. But he has out performed openers who were more stylish.

I am not confusing performance with being stylish and I request to avoid this confusion too.

I couldn't get what you mean by last sentence.

Ok..We've been going around in circles - you have put your arguments forward and then I did likewise, your arguments maybe more compelling then mine, so i'll even give you that...So lets just agree to disagree and then see how he does throughout this long tour of England.

If he performs with the bat and is consistent throughout the tour I'll eat my words and openly declare that yes Malik is indeed a testclass batsman.
Would you agree to declare that he is not a testclass batsman and should not be in the side if he doesnt deliver consistently? Can we atleast agree on this?

 

[Black Zero]

Ok..We've been going around in circles - you have put your arguments forward and then I did likewise, your arguments maybe more compelling then mine, so i'll even give you that...So lets just agree to disagree and then see how he does throughout this long tour of England.

If he performs with the bat and is consistent throughout the tour I'll eat my words and openly declare that yes Malik is indeed a testclass batsman.
Would you agree to declare that he is not a testclass batsman and should not be in the side if he doesnt deliver consistently? Can we atleast agree on this?

As these stats are of 7 tests, so if he plays all 7 next test matches, on same position (any position, but same). I expect him to score well as compared to his colleagues (We will take average of #3 to #7 and see if SM average higher or lower than that).

Fair criteria?


By the way, this is kind of betting and not arguing.

 

[IMMY69]

As these stats are of 7 tests, so if he plays all 7 next test matches, on same position (any position, but same). I expect him to score well as compared to his colleagues (We will take average of #3 to #7 and see if SM average higher or lower than that).

Fair criteria?


By the way, this is kind of betting and not arguing.

Boss I'm only concerned about Pakistan doing well...If its a bet then I'd be happy to lose! ok?

Also, I'm not into comparing how his colleagues do..I just want to see how he does in this tour and if he fails then he's not a good test match batsman...Comparing his performances with other players selected in the squad would be futile since they're mainly newbies or hasbeens...

 

[Amjid Javed]

Am sure this summer Malik will score his usual 20/30s and then get out when well set as per usual. Then when his place is in doubt he will get "Injured" or will score a Hundred in a dead rubber game.

 

[IMMY69]

Am sure this summer Malik will score his usual 20/30s and then get out when well set as per usual. Then when his place is in doubt he will get "Injured" or will score a Hundred in a dead rubber game.

well atleast we can all agree at the end of the summer...

If like you say, and i suspect this too, that his performances are mediocre and that his bigger socres are in lost causes, then I think everyone, including Anwaar and AZ, will have to agree that Malik is a useless test match batsman...Alternatively I'll be the first here to admit I was wrong!

 

[Black Zero]

Am sure this summer Malik will score his usual 20/30s and then get out when well set as per usual. Then when his place is in doubt he will get "Injured" or will score a Hundred in a dead rubber game.

This is also a Myth (like he can not play new ball).
I'll tackle this when I am back from job.

 

[IMMY69]

This is also a Myth (like he can not play new ball).
I'll tackle this when I am back from job.

Scoring in dead rubber games shows that the player does not have the mental aptitude to play in test matches...Not refering to just Malik here but any batsman who only performs in lost causes is clearly not mentally strong enough for the riggers of test match cricket...

Test match cricket is afterall a test of ones technique, fitness, skills and mental aptitude...Hence players like Ramprakash not being able to convert domestic form into international form.

 

[Black Zero]

Boss I'm only concerned about Pakistan doing well...If its a bet then I'd be happy to lose! ok?

Also, I'm not into comparing how his colleagues do..I just want to see how he does in this tour and if he fails then he's not a good test match batsman...Comparing his performances with other players selected in the squad would be futile since they're mainly newbies or hasbeens...

Comparison with colleagues is important, we need to set bar somewhere and have some perspective of success.

Like openers, I compared with all the "Pakistani" openers and he avg above all except two. Had I compared with all the openers in world even Saeed Anwar wont get place in top ten.

Re: Newbies, well in SL series, he was the highest scorer in that series even big fish like MY and YK were there. So if thats the bet, don't you think you already lost?