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Should Naseem Shah play Test cricket?

Pakistan's bowling version of Pritvi Shaw.

Picked on the back of bullying weaker teams on home soil and getting exposed away from home against good teams.
 
he is just too raw. Test cricket needs bowlers who have a plan and know how to set up batsmen. That comes by playing at least 30-40 domestic tourneys.
Ideally he should be part of A team tours.
But PCB have used his age as a marketing ploy.. I don't think they will back out and the kid will learn on the job.
 
Mesozoic said:
Pakistan's bowling version of Pritvi Shaw.

Picked on the back of bullying weaker teams on home soil and getting exposed away from home against good teams.
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At least Shaw played and performed in Domestic Ranji matches. and he played a decent number of matches before getting selected.
 
No point moaning about his selection now given most folks here were calling for him to be fast-tracked into internationals.

When you play such little FC cricket, obviously you won't have learned the art of setting up a batsman and of bowling accurately.

His first spell released the pressure after some superb new ball bowling.
 
Let's be honest if he wasn't the so called youngest bowler to play tests, he wouldn't get the hype he gets. To be honest I don't see why he gets so much hype. He bowls some good balls, but he is wayward and struggles to set batters up. I'm not saying he will never be a good bowler. But he needs to play domestic cricket. Right now,I don't see what the hype is about.
 
He’s pace is down considerably
What’s happened? Is he carrying a niggle?
 
Plenty of people knew this was going to happen. We go through fast bowlers quicker than Garfield finds pizza.

Naseem may be good in 2-3 years but for the time being he should be dropped immediately. We cannot afford 3 bowlers who lengthens the tail this much without them being exceptional.

Hassan Ali is the obvious replacement.
 
Mobashir said:
He didn't bowled well enough today but two drop catches count. He could have dismissed Williamson and Nichols if it wasn't for our poor fielding.
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i counted 1 which abbas dropped when did the Williamson happen
 
It would be interesting to hear Waqar/Misbah explain their reasoning for selecting Naseem to play test cricket.
 
Kroll said:
It would be interesting to hear Waqar/Misbah explain their reasoning for selecting Naseem to play test cricket.
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I would be surprised if they actually put any thought into it.

Feels like they just randomly assigned Husnain to ODI/T20, Naseem to Tests, and Musa as a floater for all formats
 
He wasnt bad after his first spell which was awful..there were two catches dropped of him
 
People rave about samin gul or ehsal adil who are that pathetic they cant even get in the domestic teams..we just need to groom right players..musa.is definately a no no ..
 
coy0607 said:
I would be surprised if they actually put any thought into it.

Feels like they just randomly assigned Husnain to ODI/T20, Naseem to Tests, and Musa as a floater for all formats
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Lol, sounds about right.
 
I watched him bowl all day yesterday.

He needs to put more back into his action. At the mo', he's generating Hamish Bennett type pace that isn't going to trouble any test batsman worth his salt.
 
Ideally he needs a season or two in domestic.

Get some performances in, build some confidence, get some wickets and experience under his belt, get some overs in. Then see where he is in terms of progress.
 
I think it's best to just keep Waqar away from Naseem
 
Our main problem is Waqar as bowling coach. This guy doesn’t know anything about teaching players. He is there to take big salary doing nothing but boasting. Get a professional bowling coach and Nasim will perform better.
 
Mesozoic said:
Pakistan's bowling version of Pritvi Shaw.

Picked on the back of bullying weaker teams on home soil and getting exposed away from home against good teams.
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I think not a bad comparison at all. Both have immense natural ability but are just not ready yet. Prithvi would do well to put the hard yards into tightening up his technique.
 
Saj said:
Ideally he needs a season or two in domestic.

Get some performances in, build some confidence, get some wickets and experience under his belt, get some overs in. Then see where he is in terms of progress.
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Get rid of con artist Waqar and appoint proper bowling coach.
 
Marshland said:
I watched him bowl all day yesterday.

He needs to put more back into his action. At the mo', he's generating Hamish Bennett type pace that isn't going to trouble any test batsman worth his salt.
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He's got a back injury issue I think it is cropping up again and I guess he is too scared to lose his spot so continue to play when the management wants him

Watch his spells on YouTube he was completely diffent bowler around 7-8 months back current Naseem since England tour has just looked a different bowler. Its possibly a combination of injury and confidence issues.
 
Saj said:
Ideally he needs a season or two in domestic.

Get some performances in, build some confidence, get some wickets and experience under his belt, get some overs in. Then see where he is in terms of progress.
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He needs proper coaching, domestic cricket is useless if right knowledge isn't given. All the money being spent on HPC coaches need to prove their worth. Just toiling hard without right direction is not going to help him
 
What I am wondering is what happened to his speed? When he first came on the scene his action was smooth as silk but now it seems he is trying hard versus natural speed. Can some one post his old footage versus this version to see if his action has changed?
 
Marshland said:
I watched him bowl all day yesterday.

He needs to put more back into his action. At the mo', he's generating Hamish Bennett type pace that isn't going to trouble any test batsman worth his salt.
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Funnily enough his action was all back when he started which was why he was bowling 90 mph plus and creating odd angles.
Poor from all involved to change the run up and action without any biomechanic advise.
India are so lucky that no one there decided to chamge Bumrahs action.
 
Should work hard in domestics and play the occasional dead rubber test at home. Only after a few years should he get an extended run in the test team.
 
coy0607 said:
I would be surprised if they actually put any thought into it.

Feels like they just randomly assigned Husnain to ODI/T20, Naseem to Tests, and Musa as a floater for all formats
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Exactly. They are as dumb as you can think. Hasnain has improved a lot in fitness and bowling. But he is getting dead rubbers and he keeps performing in that.

He would been more useful in tests with his height to extract extra bounce and pacy too.

I’m sure he will do well fro shaheens in t20 , these buffoons might even call him and play in second test and if that happens and if he performed well than what to call these idiots who sits as coach.
 
I feel bad for the kid, they changed his action, his pace is gone, look at Shaheen even though he is young he has gone through proper channels under 19 A tours and then T20 one day and then test.
They will kill this kids future.
 
Xoib said:
He's got a back injury issue I think it is cropping up again and I guess he is too scared to lose his spot so continue to play when the management wants him

Watch his spells on YouTube he was completely diffent bowler around 7-8 months back current Naseem since England tour has just looked a different bowler. Its possibly a combination of injury and confidence issues.
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100% this.

It's either a lingering issue or he's scared of getting a major back injury that will put him out for 5-6 months.

I guess this watered-down bowling action has been suggested to him by someone to prevent injury. But if this is how he's going to persist then it's time to head back to domestic cricket, adapt to his revised action, and then come back.

The quirks of his action are what made him so good in domestic cricket. He was getting more pace, bounce, and movement even on dead pitches. But I get his struggle because a serious injury could end his career like Mohammad Zahid.
 
He didn't bowl that bad after his first spell. Got the edge of Williamson which just barely carried, had Taylor looking uncomfortable many times, and should've had Nicholls.

We also need to tone our expectations down. He's basically learning on the job. Having played only a handful of FC games, to expect him to run through batting lineups of top teams in their own backyards is asking a bit too much. If he does poorly against SA at home, then he'd deserve more criticism.
 
Usman Chadda said:
Why is he bowling in mid-130s? Waqar needs to be questioned on this.
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The speed drop is alarming for someone so young. Definitely this needs to be investigated

I could undersand naseem not getting wickets becdause of being erratic but losing 10 kph in pace in months is very concerning
 
aloo paratha said:
He didn't bowl that bad after his first spell. Got the edge of Williamson which just barely carried, had Taylor looking uncomfortable many times, and should've had Nicholls.

We also need to tone our expectations down. He's basically learning on the job. Having played only a handful of FC games, to expect him to run through batting lineups of top teams in their own backyards is asking a bit too much. If he does poorly against SA at home, then he'd deserve more criticism.
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He shouldnt start against SA TBH. Hasan Ali should. We need some experience and stability

I don't say drop Naseem altogether but if we play 3 pacers against SA Naseem shouldnt be one of them with this kind of regression in his action and speed
 
hur rizvi said:
The speed drop is alarming for someone so young. Definitely this needs to be investigated

I could undersand naseem not getting wickets becdause of being erratic but losing 10 kph in pace in months is very concerning
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No point of playing Naseem, if he is not generating pace. This lad has averaged 85 MPH atleast in every test he has played so far, and here is struggling to hit that as top speed?

Something is clearly wrong. This stupid team management will destroy him.
 
hur rizvi said:
He shouldnt start against SA TBH. Hasan Ali should. We need some experience and stability

I don't say drop Naseem altogether but if we play 3 pacers against SA Naseem shouldnt be one of them with this kind of regression in his action and speed
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If they go with 2 pacers I would play just Shaheen and Hasan. If they go with 3 pacers, it's worth playing Naseem with Hasan and Shaheen. There's no point in dropping him in January/February, the domestic season will already be over, so nothing for him to play if he's dropped.
 
I called it on the England tour that Waqar and co dont know what they are doing with him
And there you have it, he keeps on regressing.
 
I wonder sometimes if Waqar Younis as a fast bowling coach is advocating to young pacers that the only way for them to succeed is to bowl like Umar Gul - medium pace with line and length outside the off stump - in other words don’t try to be a Waqar or Shoaib and bowl quick and full as you don’t have that talent.

Naseem looks like he has totally changed his style and approach to bowling on England tour , compared to the raw and exciting prospect he looked when he first came on the scene.

Thank goodness a young 19 year old Waqar Younis in late 1980s had a fast bowling coach (now the PM of Pakistan) who advocated bowling quick and going for the kill, or else he too could have ended up as a Umar Gul if he had modern day Pakistani coaches who believe in the art of defensive “line and length” outside the corridor of uncertainty.
 
Even when Naseem didn't strike or take a wicket on the tour of Australia he looked very threatening and someone with a lot of potential.

Either someone has changed something in his bowling routine or he is down on confidence. These are the only reasons a bowler could get worse by every other game.

Someone like this needs catches to be taken to get his self confidence back. But unfortunately things haven't gone his way in the last few series.

The fact that he isn't even clicking 145 kph is a worry itself. It shows that it isn't about ability but other factors are playing a role.
 
Unfortunately he is bowling utter trash at the moment. If he can't bowl at 145KPH plus, no matter what the reason, he simply should not be in this side. We do not need another 130KPH bowler - that too one who is wayward.

Naseem has lost his way and until he's back to his best, he should not be playing.
 
Someone has tinkered with his action and has converted him from a young tearaway to this whatever that it is at this moment. There's no follow through, the arm is coming from a different position, and the runup has been reduced as well.

If he's an injury threat, he should be moved away from the test team and allowed a season or two with experts who know what they are doing.

This is how his action was when he burst into the scene a year ago. Our coaching staff is abysmal and technically inept.

 
The reason he excited me was because of the zip he would get of the wicket by putting his back into it. Never saw him bowl below 141 kph even in test matches.
Shocking lack of pace and energy in the action. Pakistani bowlers continue losing pace. Something somewhere is not right. Usualy bowlers add a yard or two. Hasnain and Naseem started as 145-150 kph bowlers.
 
GoUgandaCranes said:
Someone has tinkered with his action and has converted him from a young tearaway to this whatever that it is at this moment. There's no follow through, the arm is coming from a different position, and the runup has been reduced as well.

If he's an injury threat, he should be moved away from the test team and allowed a season or two with experts who know what they are doing.

This is how his action was when he burst into the scene a year ago. Our coaching staff is abysmal and technically inept.

Click to expand...

Passive acceptance of Teacher's wisdom. He will get out of this after few matches.
 
GoUgandaCranes said:
Someone has tinkered with his action and has converted him from a young tearaway to this whatever that it is at this moment. There's no follow through, the arm is coming from a different position, and the runup has been reduced as well.

If he's an injury threat, he should be moved away from the test team and allowed a season or two with experts who know what they are doing.

This is how his action was when he burst into the scene a year ago. Our coaching staff is abysmal and technically inept.

Click to expand...

Look at the effort on those deliveries compared to the trundling this match
 
Whats going on with the drop in pace. If we want 82mph medium pacers then we have better options. Seriously worried about the drop in pace after only a year in the team. This is a terrible sign.
 
Only one diagnosis and solution. Keep Dehati Waqar away from the younger bowling lot
 
Bewal Express said:
Whats going on with the drop in pace. If we want 82mph medium pacers then we have better options. Seriously worried about the drop in pace after only a year in the team. This is a terrible sign.
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Yeah not sure who recommended him to cut his run up by half since UK he just does not get the same flow with this half run up
 
Same effect after Sami reduced his runup

Luckily Akhtar didn’t reduce his run up back then
 
Bewal Express said:
Whats going on with the drop in pace. If we want 82mph medium pacers then we have better options. Seriously worried about the drop in pace after only a year in the team. This is a terrible sign.
Click to expand...

Waqar happened...
 
Can someone please ask waqar whats going on with the drop in pace and shortened run up?

Id like to hear his explanation.
 
I think it’s good he is learning the hard way and getting his poor overs in whilst he is still only 17.

PCB can’t back out of this bowl. He will come good. Just believe in him
 
Cameron Green bowling faster than Naseem who is bowling at Munaf Patels pace
 
Another fast bowler turned into a trundler, proud achievement by PCB. It is a endless list, no wonder we have no bowler crossing 150 test wickets after Shoaib.

Look at Australian bowlers getting injured and still not losing pace. Even Bumrah had stress fracture but he came back strongly. I bet he would have been a 130 kph trundler if he was managed by PCB.
 
At least when he was bowling before it was fun to see him hit 140+ consistently... now it's like watching Amir again giving it his all and grunting loudly only for the speedometer to show 132 kph lmao
 
We have no concept of sport science. I feel Shaheen, Harris and Hasnain are one injury away from being trundlers. This is how bad PCB has been managing injuries
 
Before this game, the management would have known that his pace was considerably down. Given that pace is his only weapon, his selection in this side is absolutely criminal. What on earth are Misbah and co up to.

We need to know what has happened to this kid to go from specactual talent to very very average in the matter of months. The management has a lot of questions to answer.
 
shah_1 said:
We have no concept of sport science. I feel Shaheen, Harris and Hasnain are one injury away from being trundlers. This is how bad PCB has been managing injuries
Click to expand...

I cringe when i watch the young pacemen doing bicep curls under that local trainer at the High perfornance center.
Get some foreigners involved
 
Usman said:
Before this game, the management would have known that his pace was considerably down. Given that pace is his only weapon, his selection in this side is absolutely criminal. What on earth are Misbah and co up to.

We need to know what has happened to this kid to go from specactual talent to very very average in the matter of months. The management has a lot of questions to answer.
Click to expand...

Shoaib Akthar was clear about WY yesterday, he said waqar is there to collect his salary only
 
Getting quite annoying to watch Naseem bowl. Trundling at 135, then staring down the batsman almost every ball even when he has middled it. Just get back and bowl fast.

And he is out of shape. Look at that gut. And Yasir's. And Abid's. and Abbas'. Even Fawad looks to have put on weight. In fact, apart from Shan, Shaheen and Rizwan, no one else looks like a professional athlete in this team.
 
If it helps getting Misbah and Waqar out than he can continue playing Test cricket. I have zero hope for this bowler atleast currently.
 
Not sure who to blame for Naseem loss of speed but if it's the management than they need to get rid of all of them. It's rear when you have a player of Naseem quality and than see him bowling at 135-138 kmh is just so cringe worthy.
 
Pointless to speculate.

I am reluctant to blame Waqar unless it's explicitly said Naseem has changed his action.

Could be fitness or just poor form/rhythm at the moment.

Who are the alternatives to Naseem?

Hasnain is a straight swap and can hopefully actually bowl at pace. But is way too inexperienced. No idea where Musa fits in.
 
People will bash the daylights out of Waqar just because Naseem didn’t prove to be the bowler they thought he was, and is not going to have the career they had fantasized about.

Typical.
 
observer1 said:
Pointless to speculate.

I am reluctant to blame Waqar unless it's explicitly said Naseem has changed his action.

Could be fitness or just poor form/rhythm at the moment.

Who are the alternatives to Naseem?

Hasnain is a straight swap and can hopefully actually bowl at pace. But is way too inexperienced. No idea where Musa fits in.
Click to expand...

Is Hasnain doing better in first class than HA or other domestic toppers?

If not than what's the point of adding him knowing our experiment failed with Naseem

So why don't we pick the boring option and stick with people who actually perform in first class for once...
 
Third_Umpire said:
Getting quite annoying to watch Naseem bowl. Trundling at 135, then staring down the batsman almost every ball even when he has middled it. Just get back and bowl fast.

And he is out of shape. Look at that gut. And Yasir's. And Abid's. and Abbas'. Even Fawad looks to have put on weight. In fact, apart from Shan, Shaheen and Rizwan, no one else looks like a professional athlete in this team.
Click to expand...

Yep they looked fat but don't think Naseem or Fawad are out of shape
 
Usman said:
Before this game, the management would have known that his pace was considerably down. Given that pace is his only weapon, his selection in this side is absolutely criminal. What on earth are Misbah and co up to.

We need to know what has happened to this kid to go from specactual talent to very very average in the matter of months. The management has a lot of questions to answer.
Click to expand...
Yea why would you play him if he is short on pace?
Bigboii said:
Yep they looked fat but don't think Naseem or Fawad are out of shape
Click to expand...
He has a six pack lol
 
Mamoon said:
People will bash the daylights out of Waqar just because Naseem didn’t prove to be the bowler they thought he was, and is not going to have the career they had fantasized about.

Typical.
Click to expand...

Only thing typical is your arrogant response here little guy.

Naseem has dropped Pace and there seems to be a trend of bowlers losing their X Factor under PCB Management. I agree blaming Waqar is pointless (see my earlier post) but it would be nice to hear some clarification or statement regarding Naseem's drop in pace.
 
observer1 said:
Only thing typical is your arrogant response here little guy.

Naseem has dropped Pace and there seems to be a trend of bowlers losing their X Factor under PCB Management. I agree blaming Waqar is pointless (see my earlier post) but it would be nice to hear some clarification or statement regarding Naseem's drop in pace.
Click to expand...

It is not rocket science. He has had several injuries and his body has tightened up a bit. As he plays more he should pick up his speed again.

But his speed is not even a problem. Our fans are obsessed with pace but you don’t need to be a speed demon to be successful.

Shaun Tait was 6 ft 5 in and almost as quick as Akhtar, but he didn’t have a Test career because he didn’t know how to set batsmen up and didn’t have the consistency to execute whatever plan he had in mind.

Naseem’s problem isn’t that he is not bowling 92 mph anymore. His problem is that he is not even a good bowler to begin with. He never was.

His hype is based on a lie (his fake age) and his fans got carried away as usual when he picked up wickets against weak lineups. His returns in Australia, England and now New Zealand is sufficient proof that he is not ready for this level and currently doesn’t have the skill-set to be successful in international cricket.


Naseem needs to stop trash talking and not make not make comical statements about hurting batsmen and seeing fear in their eyes when he is not even a good bowler to begin with. He needs to go back to domestic cricket and toil in 4 day cricket for a couple of seasons and learn the art of bowling.

I am not arrogant. However, if calling Pakistani fans delusional and in a state of perpetual denial makes me arrogant, then I am happy to be called arrogant.
 
Pakistan got a bit carried away with this kid. If you read the first page of this thread, most expected him to be a superstar in a year's time after his hatrick against Bangladesh. But the fact that he didnt become the prodigy most were expecting, they are now blaming Waqar & mgmt. Not sure what is the fault of bowling coach here if his speeds are down. Maybe Naseem himself wanted to reduce pace to put less strain on his body. At international level, bowling coach cant hold your hand and teach you how to bowl.

Its a poor idea of throwing U19 cricketers in internationals and expect them to succeed. It may happen sometimes but mostly will fail. From being the so called fastest bowler in Asia, Nassem Shah bowling at a similar pace of Bhuvi Kumar now. He is definitely not ready and need to go back into domestic cricket.
 
Naseem bowled decently in England, and although not as quick as expected still sharp, but his drop in pace in NZ is alarming. I think this his last test for a while.
 
A genuine teenage quick bowler doesn't just lose speed like this within a year. Either he has been told to cut down on his speed to prevent his back from going completely or he is actually injured and not going 100%. This kid was the fastest pace bowler on average among all Asian bowlers, and now he is bowling close to Abbas' pace?

Much rather let him rest than be exposed like this. Team management should be answerable. People wanting to vent on young Naseem need to realize the kind of personalities we have in our dressing room, and how they should be guiding a young player to reach his maximum potential.
 
Naseem is definition of mediocre and I called it day 1. It was so obvious in his first test he won’t make the cut at the top level.
 
Slog said:
Naseem is definition of mediocre and I called it day 1. It was so obvious in his first test he won’t make the cut at the top level.
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Thats not the point right now. He might well have gone Sami route but this alarming drop in pace means something some where went very wrong
 
writing him off too early , arent we?

We should give him some time , last year NZ posted 600 plus against english bowling lineup. Where broad posted figures like abbas and jofra archer posted figures like naseem shah at the same venue.

We need to be patient with young ones otherwise dinosaurs will keep making comebacks.
 
Usman Chadda said:
A genuine teenage quick bowler doesn't just lose speed like this within a year. Either he has been told to cut down on his speed to prevent his back from going completely or he is actually injured and not going 100%. This kid was the fastest pace bowler on average among all Asian bowlers, and now he is bowling close to Abbas' pace?

Much rather let him rest than be exposed like this. Team management should be answerable. People wanting to vent on young Naseem need to realize the kind of personalities we have in our dressing room, and how they should be guiding a young player to reach his maximum potential.
Click to expand...

In my opinion he is not 100 percent fit , pcb took half fit shadab on the tour as well.
 
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