So Pakistan Test team is finally exposed outside UAE?

[WhenSultansBowled]

We can lose 2-1 or 3-1 now, which is better than losing 2-0 or 3-0.

If Pakistan wins or draws the series, we can start threads like these days.

For now, it's premature, because remember what happened to India after they won the Lord's Test in 2014.

Pakistan didn't play special cricket but England were poor and were missing their best bowler and another important player.

Overall I think it was a pretty average performance by us.

Good win but nothing to be excited about moving forward, it's a long series.

Are we talking about same game here?
Er... Misbah's 100 / Yasir's 10fer count?

Pakistan played with 4 batsmen and 2 of them are 40+ years old. Our openers are unreliable.

 

[Strike Rate]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] when was the last time England won a single Test match against Pakistan away from home? (just mention one match date i am not even talking about series)

 

[ask_analyse_act]

We can lose 2-1 or 3-1 now, which is better than losing 2-0 or 3-0.

If Pakistan wins or draws the series, we can start threads like these days.

For now, it's premature, because remember what happened to India after they won the Lord's Test in 2014.

Pakistan didn't play special cricket but England were poor and were missing their best bowler and another important player.

Overall I think it was a pretty average performance by us.

Good win but nothing to be excited about moving forward, it's a long series.

but with india they always struggle to get 20 wickets outside asia... pak says bring it on... if pak score anything over 300 or close to 300 even after anderson is back, still pak can win it...though there is lot of room to improve in the batting department as england will bounce back hard with the return of anderson.

 

[Atif]

Lol at the idiots thinking we won the test match because Anderson wasn't playing.



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[Pantani]

It was a great win by Pakistan. I think what [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] is trying to say is that Pakistan could still have performed better than how they did, and that is not a controversial statement. A few dropped catches and a lot of misfields, some poor batting and shot selection at times, and wayward bowling with the new ball. All of these areas need to be improved on, and with Anderson returning for England, sorting out the batting has to be the highest priority. Pakistan need to become more ruthless, that's what separates a good team from a number 1 ranked team.

 

[Ab Fan]

Yasir passes the test with A++ grade.I back Amir to do well in other games and get things right in place for him.

Younus struggled badly and Azhar Ali has a point to prove.

Misbah did his job nicely and Shafiq was the best of the lot.

That's how results have gone for Pak after 1st test.

Overall kudos to them for their 1st win.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] when was the last time England won a single Test match against Pakistan away from home? (just mention one match date i am not even talking about series)

Shush. Pakistan's win don't matter and all that.

I so hope and pray to Allah we give them a 4-0 phainta!!

 

[Usman Chadda]

It was an average performance by the team and a superlative one by Yasir.

He literally had to do so much of the work himself; taking wickets, containing runs, even scoring runs.

Asad aur Misbah moong phalliyaan khaa rahe thay shayad.

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[Haz95]

Why some people who literally pray to God about thrashing other teams is beyond me...ever thought God may be on the side who you're praying against?

 

[the Great Khan]

You lot need to stop listening to the depressed wristslitter from peshawar. The sooner you do that the more you'll enjoy watching and supporting this team.

Old Trafford may be even more to our liking especially if the weather continues. England are in a fight here..

 

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] when was the last time England won a single Test match against Pakistan away from home? (just mention one match date i am not even talking about series)

Was it the Karachi Test in 2001 when they won in the dark?

I don't recall any victory after that.

 

[Prince of Pakistan]

Forgot what Steve Harmison did last time at Old Trafford? Anderson is gonna love it there,

 

[Strike Rate]

Was it the Karachi Test in 2001 when they won in the dark?

I don't recall any victory after that.

So did England fans complained or even cared about their poor performance against Pak in almost every tour? I think most of them even don't know it

 

[Mamoon]

As I said in the other thread, winning a match is great but it does not cover up weaknesses.

Pakistan showed a lot of weakness and vulnerability in this match.

Our entire top 4 failed.

Our number 5 got a hundred but registered a duck in the second innings.

Our number 6 got starts in both innings but did not get a big score.

Our number 7 (WK) got starts but couldn't convert, and dropped a sitter.

Our pacers were average overall and did not create enough inroads.

Our catching was poor.

The only player who produced a high class performance throughout the game was Yasir Shah.

Yes he is flying at the moment, but he is also human.

What happens when he does not have a great game and does not take 10 wickets, but the others players continue to perform like this?

What happens when England, who were worse than Pakistan, raise their game?

Yes we won, it is something to cherish. However, does it change the fact that overall, our performance was not great?

No, it does not.

You continue to win only when you assess your wins critically, because there is always room for improvement, because if you don't raise your standards, the other team will catch up or surpass you.

That is the problem of some of the Pakistani fans. When they win, they think everything is wonderful and there is nothing to criticize.

This is not negativity and this is not wrist-slitting; this is looking at our performance in an objective fashion.

Moving forward, we need 5-6 very good performances and a couple of excellent performances to continue winning, unlike this Test, where we had one excellent performances and a couple of very good performances, while the rest were out of their element.

 

[Mamoon]

So did England fans complained or even cared about their poor performance against Pak in almost every tour? I think most of them even don't know it

What England fans do is their problem. They might consider every series as warmup for the next Ashes, but that is not the case for us.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Forgot what Steve Harmison did last time at Old Trafford? Anderson is gonna love it there,

Anderson and Harmison are two very different bowlers. I do expect him to wreak havoc though considering how a lullo like Woakes took 11 wickets against us.

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[Anfield]

So did England fans complained or even cared about their poor performance against Pak in almost every tour? I think most of them even don't know it

Dude there is no point arguing with him. He thought this tour was a nightmare for us and our mediocre team is good for UAE only. 3-0 or 4-0 was the likely result.

you can read it over here.

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...The-Amir-and-Yasir-show&p=8704313#post8704313

 

[Mamoon]

It was an average performance by the team and a superlative one by Yasir.

He literally had to do so much of the work himself; taking wickets, containing runs, even scoring runs.

Yes, that is my point.

It was a 6/10 type performance, which is generally not good enough to win a match or a series in a place like England.

We certainly need to improve as a team to avoid the fate India suffered in 2014. They won at Lord's and went 1-0 up, but the brilliance of Rahane and Ishant made up for the failures of others.

However, they did not improve in the remaining Tests but England did, and they lost 3-1.

 

[Yanna_Rascala]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] shown up to be the wrist-slitter Uncle Tom he is. I almost feel sorry for him but then I just laugh at him

 

[Prince of Pakistan]

As I said in the other thread, winning a match is great but it does not cover up weaknesses.

Pakistan showed a lot of weakness and vulnerability in this match.

Our entire top 4 failed.

Our number 5 got a hundred but registered a duck in the second innings.

Our number 6 got starts in both innings but did not get a big score.

Our number 7 (WK) got starts but couldn't convert, and dropped a sitter.

Our pacers were average overall and did not create enough inroads.

Our catching was poor.

The only player who produced a high class performance throughout the game was Yasir Shah.

Yes he is flying at the moment, but he is also human.

What happens when he does not have a great game and does not take 10 wickets, but the others players continue to perform like this?

What happens when England, who were worse than Pakistan, raise their game?

Yes we won, it is something to cherish. However, does it change the fact that overall, our performance was not great?

No, it does not.

You continue to win only when you assess your wins critically, because there is always room for improvement, because if you don't raise your standards, the other team will catch up or surpass you.

That is the problem of some of the Pakistani fans. When they win, they think everything is wonderful and there is nothing to criticize.

This is not negativity and this is not wrist-slitting; this is looking at our performance in an objective fashion.

Moving forward, we need 5-6 very good performances and a couple of excellent performances to continue winning, unlike this Test, where we had one excellent performances and a couple of very good performances, while the rest were out of their element.

Excellent post.

I dont expect much from Misbah & co and am sure they will go with the same combinations. But I really hope Mickey views our performances this way. We need critical people in our set up.

 

[habibi hayya]

I see [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] is still trying his best to remain center of attention.


Great win today, massive props to Misbah and troops.

 

[nighthawk23]

Let's not put the cart in front of the horse yet. England vs India 2012 comes to mind.

 

[Abhilash93]

So 3 countries from the subcontinent have won a Test in SL in the last 2 years! Well done Pakistan. You thoroughly deserve the victory.

Though Anderson & Stokes will be back for the 2nd Test, I think Amir will also be more confident and in better rhythm & hopefully Pak get a better opener too. Its gonna be exciting!

 

[Mamoon]

No Asian team has won 2 matches in England for the past 20 years; the last was Pakistan's 96 test series. Every single side after that failed including the great Indian side with Tendu & co. Not winning 2 matches wouldn't mean that this series is a failure for Pakistan.

This was a precious win for Pakistan and shows that its test team deserves the no3 spot it earned - come what may later on.

Off-topic but you seem to have adopted Dr Bassim's style of 1 sentence paragraphs. Don't do that.

Lol, I wrote them like bullet points. Don't like one line paragraphs either.

 

[Mamoon]

I see [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] is still trying his best to remain center of attention.


Great win today, massive props to Misbah and troops.

I'm only defending my position.

People can't leave to my myself, not my problem.

 

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=7701]Prince of Pakistan[/MENTION]

I hope that the players have not started to celebrate the series win prematurely like some of the fans here because we have 45 sessions of cricket left in this series.

 

[kingusama92]

As I said in the other thread, winning a match is great but it does not cover up weaknesses.

Pakistan showed a lot of weakness and vulnerability in this match.

Our entire top 4 failed.

Our number 5 got a hundred but registered a duck in the second innings.

Our number 6 got starts in both innings but did not get a big score.

Our number 7 (WK) got starts but couldn't convert, and dropped a sitter.

Our pacers were average overall and did not create enough inroads.

Our catching was poor.

The only player who produced a high class performance throughout the game was Yasir Shah.

Yes he is flying at the moment, but he is also human.

What happens when he does not have a great game and does not take 10 wickets, but the others players continue to perform like this?

What happens when England, who were worse than Pakistan, raise their game?

Yes we won, it is something to cherish. However, does it change the fact that overall, our performance was not great?

No, it does not.

You continue to win only when you assess your wins critically, because there is always room for improvement, because if you don't raise your standards, the other team will catch up or surpass you.

That is the problem of some of the Pakistani fans. When they win, they think everything is wonderful and there is nothing to criticize.

This is not negativity and this is not wrist-slitting; this is looking at our performance in an objective fashion.

Moving forward, we need 5-6 very good performances and a couple of excellent performances to continue winning, unlike this Test, where we had one excellent performances and a couple of very good performances, while the rest were out of their element.

That's cricket.

You find me any match and I'll find 10 flaws in the winning team and how they performed.

There is no such thing as a perfect win.

Of course you are spot on and weaknesses have to be worked on. But a win is a win is a win.

 

[Mamoon]

Worst Day for [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] feel sorry for you mate. But i know you are busy in scratching your head to find holes and excuses for this fluke pak win??????? don't you????????

There are no flukes in Test cricket. Pakistan were better than England over the course of 5 days but their performance was not great by any means.

When you produce a brilliant performance and win, then it is great. However, when you produce a par performance but still win because the other team was poor, it does not mean that everything is okay.

Most of the players were passengers in this game. Moving forward, they will have to lift their game.

 

[Muhammad Saad]

To be fair we didn't play great cricket I would say it was a 7/10 performance, just imagine if have played it to our potential (If we had proper openers and on song M.Amir) then we would have absolutely demolished England.

 

[Mamoon]

That's cricket.

You find me any match and I'll find 10 flaws in the winning team and how they performed.

There is no such thing as a perfect win.

Of course you are spot on and weaknesses have to be worked on. But a win is a win is a win.

Yes of course a win is a win and no one is downplaying it, but sometimes you win because you were brilliant and sometimes you win because you were not as poor as the opposition.

I think it's the latter here, which is why Pakistan will have to be on their toes because it is likely that England will produce a better performance in the remaining 3 Tests.

 

[Prince of Pakistan]

[MENTION=7701]Prince of Pakistan[/MENTION]

I hope that the players have not started to celebrate the series win prematurely like some of the fans here because we have 45 sessions of cricket left in this series.

The thing is that this is a big thing for all the Pakistanis which is why they are going over the moon while there is a lot be done.

Had we been more used to do such victories abroad we would have been more professional.

 

[Anfield]

To be fair we didn't play great cricket I would say it was a 7/10 performance, just imagine if have played it to our potential (If we had proper openers and on song M.Amir) then we would have absolutely demolished England.

Well the thing about good teams is that they don't allow others to play to their potential and that's how you get exciting matches. If pak had played to it's potential and perfect cricket then that would have meant that england is a pathetic team and a rollover which isn't true at all. They are a very good test team, especially in their own backyard. England will come down hard on us and we have to be prepared but I don't expect us to play perfect cricket because England won't allow us to do that.

 

[Prince of Pakistan]

Anderson and Harmison are two very different bowlers. I do expect him to wreak havoc though considering how a lullo like Woakes took 11 wickets against us.

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The point being that Old Trafford is a very good wicket for pace bowlers. There is always that extra bounce which will suit Woakes.

In 2006 it was horrible. What Harmy and Hoggard did to us was really painful.

 

[Hadi Rizvi]

Calm down, lets not get ahead of ourselves.

Lets remember one thing that if it wasnt for yasir,this test could had been lost.

I know its a great win, but to say that so and so poster said that, this win shouldnt overshadow our short comings.

Lol if u put it that way then, if it wasn't for Woakes, 11 of our 20 wickets wouldn't have fallen. Lol at your logic. I think the only shortcomings were openers and Azhar. Rahat bowled atrociously at times but that's about it. Wahab had a wonderful spell of reverse swing bowling. Amir looked in rhythm and was very economical. Not to mention that he got Cook in a tangle quite often.

 

[Haroon786]

I would say SA and Australia are a better test side than Pakistan atm.

Pakistan can now say, they they deserved the 3rd rank spot

SA have been garbage recently - badly losing their last 2 series, one at home and a whitewash to India and they even drew to Bangladesh in a Test series. Objectively, Pakistan are better than SA at.

Agree about Australia though.

 

[Major]

Lol if u put it that way then, if it wasn't for Woakes, 11 of our 20 wickets wouldn't have fallen. Lol at your logic. I think the only shortcomings were openers and Azhar. Rahat bowled atrociously at times but that's about it. Wahab had a wonderful spell of reverse swing bowling. Amir looked in rhythm and was very economical. Not to mention that he got Cook in a tangle quite often.

Bhai, its about putting pressure on the opposition with good bowling. If Woakes was not there, then Broad and even Ball were doing a good job in the first innings.

Pakistani pacers were made to look like Club level bowlers. They were attacked just the way Misbah was attacking Moeen Ali in the first innings. No Pressure, just easy runs being scored.

Yasir or Woakes din't do any black magic on the ball. They just bowled on tight lines and lengths, and both exploited the weakness of their opposition. Pakistan's weakness was the bounce, and England's weakness was the spin at the right length


In the first innings, Pakistan were bowling with 3 Steven Finns.

Though in the second innings, Amir came back good

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

It only takes very little to be positive and cheer on the team that one 'supports' - certain blokes complaining on how we have given a 6/10 performance but for me I'll look at in a way as that if by giving a 6/10 performance we are beating England at home then an 8/10 would totally demolish the English.

You can't have it both ways guys, either we played good cricket or played bad cricket - choose either one !!

 

[Last Monetarist]

I was at Lord's yesterday and today. It was a dream of mine to visit the place for the past 20 years and it turned out to be just as special as I'd always imagined it to be. It was a remarkable test match: ebbing and flowing and never truly telegraphing a hint of its result until the final afternoon of the match. Everything in fact that makes test cricket the greatest sport in the world. For those 12 hours and a bit over this weekend, I forgot about all of life's transcendental problems and worried only about how this remarkable team of ours was playing.

I personally predicted a 4-0 rout for England before the series as I didn't trust our batting and probably overrated England's in turn. My fears haven't been wholly allayed, but I'd worry about it tomorrow or when the next match starts rolling. We have a habit of airbrushing the good moments and victories and dwelling far too long on the poor performances and defeats. For once I wish we give this team credit and not attempt to pour cold water on this performance. Overall, it was a match for the ages and something that I personally will cherish for a long while.

I also realized that you can never truly understand the game unless you're watching it at the ground, there are so many little things that escape notice on television. I've seen posters on here criticizing the seamers, but what I saw was a careful execution of a plan to bowl dry and suffocate run-scoring. Misbah's plans were immaculate and Jarrod Kimber's cricinfo piece on the subject is merely another treat to cap off this great test match: http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-v-pakistan-2016/content/story/1035969.html

 

[Acricketfan]

You forgot to tag [MENTION=139052]Acricketfan[/MENTION] [MENTION=139840]Balthazar[/MENTION] )

LOL. One win against an English side without Clouderson and Stokes and these guys are celebrating as they won the wc. )

 

[Strike Rate]

LOL. One win against an English side without Clouderson and Stokes and these guys are celebrating as they won the wc. )

oh boy i hope clouderson and the clouds are there in next match!

 

[Usman Chadda]

The thing is that this is a big thing for all the Pakistanis which is why they are going over the moon while there is a lot be done.

Had we been more used to do such victories abroad we would have been more professional.

Winning abroad is a big deal for every team now, not just Pakistanis.

Also this argument of England playing poor cricket is getting tiresome now. Next time Pakistan loses, and our cricket is about to get finished for the millionth time in a year, watch me rip into the whiners with this same argument.

England wins, they are world-class. Pakistan wins, opposition were poor. Hilarious.

This era has seen some really annoying negativity on this forum. The match thread was incredible throughout the fourth day.

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[Usman Chadda]

LOL. One win against an English side without Clouderson and Stokes and these guys are celebrating as they won the wc. )

This is all it took you to start crying? Three more tests to go lol.

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[Strike Rate]

Winning abroad is a big deal for every team now, not just Pakistanis.

Also this argument of England playing poor cricket is getting tiresome now. Next time Pakistan loses, and our cricket is about to get finished for the millionth time in a year, watch me rip into the whiners with this same argument.

England wins, they are world-class. Pakistan wins, opposition were poor. Hilarious.

This era has seen some really annoying negativity on this forum. The match thread was incredible throughout the fourth day.

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Exactly and those fans are not even interested to apply same logic on England who isn't able to win a single Test against us when touring UAE. Why only Asian teams face criticism outside Asia why not non Asian teams when they regularly fail in Asia? with all their number 1 and number 2 rankings they continue to fail here

 

[Usman Chadda]

Exactly and those fans are not even interested to apply same logic on England who isn't able to win a single Test against us when touring UAE. Why only Asian teams face criticism outside Asia why not non Asian teams when they regularly fail in Asia? with all their number 1 and number 2 rankings they continue to fail here

Because England beat India, drew in Sri Lanka when these guys were in their diapers and recently beat South Africa, which the detractors forget Australia has done aswell. Sick of the agendas man. The media is blamed and bashed for this behaviour while most of our fans keep on doing the same thing. Its just a sport, not a tool to score points and gain attention. Get behind your team and support them, enjoy whatever comes your way.

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[Rudi hater]

We can lose 2-1 or 3-1 now, which is better than losing 2-0 or 3-0.

If Pakistan wins or draws the series, we can start threads like these days.

For now, it's premature, because remember what happened to India after they won the Lord's Test in 2014.

Pakistan didn't play special cricket but England were poor and were missing their best bowler and another important player.

Overall I think it was a pretty average performance by us.

Good win but nothing to be excited about moving forward, it's a long series.

No Pakistan did not win...lol get a life. When Pakistan win they win coz of other team played poorly, when Pakistan loses its because the other team was too good and too hot to handle. Wow....

 

[Bilal7]

Great to see the usual rubbish posters here getting full out humiliated after Pakistan put up a very good team performance.

Every single one of our bowlers contributed, especially Shah and our fielding was decent too. The batting don't pended heavily on Misbah and Shafiq but there were some cameos from Younis and Sarfaraz as well.

The fact that Pakistan can still improve is something that should have England rattled. Younis, Amir, Azhar and Riaz all have some big contributions to make in this series and if two or three of them do so in the same match, we have won this series, Insh'Allah.

 

[New Yorker]

Lol if u put it that way then, if it wasn't for Woakes, 11 of our 20 wickets wouldn't have fallen. Lol at your logic. I think the only shortcomings were openers and Azhar. Rahat bowled atrociously at times but that's about it. Wahab had a wonderful spell of reverse swing bowling. Amir looked in rhythm and was very economical. Not to mention that he got Cook in a tangle quite often.

His one entertaining spell notwithstanding, Wahab also bowled atrociously at times.

His final tally : 2 @ 113

Just not good enough.

Amir was greatly redeemed by his economy.

 

[New Yorker]

Great to see the usual rubbish posters here getting full out humiliated after Pakistan put up a very good team performance.

Every single one of our bowlers contributed, especially Shah and our fielding was decent too. The batting don't pended heavily on Misbah and Shafiq but there were some cameos from Younis and Sarfaraz as well.

The fact that Pakistan can still improve is something that should have England rattled. Younis, Amir, Azhar and Riaz all have some big contributions to make in this series and if two or three of them do so in the same match, we have won this series, Insh'Allah.

One would bet on Amir improving, because he has performed much better in the past. The odds are steeper for Wahab and Rahat. Dismal I would say for Hafeez and Shan.

 

[Prince of Pakistan]

Winning abroad is a big deal for every team now, not just Pakistanis.

Also this argument of England playing poor cricket is getting tiresome now. Next time Pakistan loses, and our cricket is about to get finished for the millionth time in a year, watch me rip into the whiners with this same argument.

England wins, they are world-class. Pakistan wins, opposition were poor. Hilarious.

This era has seen some really annoying negativity on this forum. The match thread was incredible throughout the fourth day.

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I don't get where you get this negativity from. For professionals this is about analyzing weak spots in order to improve.

 

[Square Drive]

LOL. One win against an English side without Clouderson and Stokes and these guys are celebrating as they won the wc. )

Yeah, unfortunately you guys couldn't manage more than 'one win' across 8 Tests against England. )

 

[Executioner]

SA have been garbage recently - badly losing their last 2 series, one at home and a whitewash to India and they even drew to Bangladesh in a Test series. Objectively, Pakistan are better than SA at.

Agree about Australia though.

A drawn series where there was 7 days of rain in a 2 match test series.

I still would put SA ahead for now. Even Australia struggled against India's rank turners

 

[Haroon786]

A drawn series where there was 7 days of rain in a 2 match test series.

I still would put SA ahead for now. Even Australia struggled against India's rank turners

Still its Bangladesh. SA didn't just lose against India, they got eviscerated. They then proceeded to get humbled by an English side at home that Pakistan had just defeated in the UAE.

No way SA are better, their ranking and the fact that they are now a team of noobs bar Amla, AB and an injured Steyn testify to that.

 

[Haroon786]

LOL. One win against an English side without Clouderson and Stokes and these guys are celebrating as they won the wc. )

The hate is strong on this one.

Can't wait for the second win now.

 

[Haroon786]

Just wished there was a slightly longer turnaround for the next Test.

 

[Acricketfan]

Yeah, unfortunately you guys couldn't manage more than 'one win' across 8 Tests against England. )

Just like your last 3 test series in Australia? )

 

[Executioner]

Still its Bangladesh. SA didn't just lose against India, they got eviscerated. They then proceeded to get humbled by an English side at home that Pakistan had just defeated in the UAE.

No way SA are better, their ranking and the fact that they are now a team of noobs bar Amla, AB and an injured Steyn testify to that.

BD has improved anyways but thats not the point

The first match had only 2 days of play
Second match, only 1

Now even the greatest of test team in the world, even World All time Test XI wouldn't be able to beat us in 2 days leave alone 1 day.

As for debate about whether SA vs Pak, we can only settle with a series between both sides. Otherwise its all just speculations

 

[Square Drive]

Just like your last 3 test series in Australia? )

Typical Indian - bring up other series, irrelevant to the topic, just to make your group of HTBs look good )

 

[Haroon786]

BD has improved anyways but thats not the point

The first match had only 2 days of play
Second match, only 1

Now even the greatest of test team in the world, even World All time Test XI wouldn't be able to beat us in 2 days leave alone 1 day.

As for debate about whether SA vs Pak, we can only settle with a series between both sides. Otherwise its all just speculations

You said SA is currently better than Pakistan atm - by current you obviously mean the respective form of the two teams in the last year or so and at present, which means Pakistan are currently better in Tests. It isn't too difficult to realise who's right.

 

[Executioner]

You said SA is currently better than Pakistan atm - by current you obviously mean the respective form of the two teams in the last year or so and at present, which means Pakistan are currently better in Tests. It isn't too difficult to realise who's right.

If you are going to talk about recent form, then ofcourse Pakistan are looking like hotshots.

However, you cannot really compare can you? You need to see how both teams would perform on similar circumstances. For the record, I can't remember last time SA played a test match, probably last November when they played against India in a square turner. Playing on a square turner and playing in truely sporty wickets in England are two completely different things.

You cannot make complete judgements based upon a series or 2.

Let SA play this season, then we can say which team is better, better yet if both teams play each other. That was my point.

 

[Haroon786]

If you are going to talk about recent form, then ofcourse Pakistan are looking like hotshots.

However, you cannot really compare can you? You need to see how both teams would perform on similar circumstances. For the record, I can't remember last time SA played a test match, probably last November when they played against India in a square turner. Playing on a square turner and playing in truely sporty wickets in England are two completely different things.

You cannot make complete judgements based upon a series or 2.

Let SA play this season, then we can say which team is better, better yet if both teams play each other. That was my point.

It is almost impossible for countries to have similar looking schedules where they play in the same opponents in the same locations, therefore based on your parameters it would take around 3-4 years for a comparison as the composting of the two teams would be entirely different from present.

You may not be aware but SA are no longer a top Test team. A. Peterson, Smith and Kallis have all retired, Steyn is injured most of the time and Amla and AB haven't really done well in tests recently. Therefore they have a team of noobs who drew in BD, lost in IND and lost at home vs ENG in January.

In the eyes of most reasonable fans, SA are not better currently than Pakistan in tests.

 

[street cricketer]

If you are going to talk about recent form, then ofcourse Pakistan are looking like hotshots.

However, you cannot really compare can you? You need to see how both teams would perform on similar circumstances. For the record, I can't remember last time SA played a test match, probably last November when they played against India in a square turner. Playing on a square turner and playing in truely sporty wickets in England are two completely different things.

You cannot make complete judgements based upon a series or 2.

Let SA play this season, then we can say which team is better, better yet if both teams play each other. That was my point.

SA are a seriously depleted team now. I mean, when you have the likes of Dane Vilas playing for you, you know there's something wrong.

Personally I think Pakistan are atm much more solid than the SA team. They have a few brilliant individuals but not well rounded as a team.

 

[Markhor]

Let's wait until the end of all these overseas tours we got coming up before drawing any conclusions about our overseas prowess.

This Lord's win is awesome but its only the First Test man.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Let's wait until the end of all these overseas tours we got coming up before drawing any conclusions about our overseas prowess.

This Lord's win is awesome but its only the First Test man.

1st of many test wins abroad this year

 

[Vegitto1]

If Pakistan goes on to lose the series from here on then so be it - but winning a test in England, at Lords, is still an achievement.

If memory serves me right, England has not won a test against Pakistan outside of England in how many years?

As for Pakistan, It won a solitary match in the 2010 series and were on course to win the final test in the 2006 series.

In any event, Pakistan is a much better test side than England can ever hope to be.

 

[Mamoon]

1v1 isn't always the best way of determining who is a better Test side.

England were world number one in 2010-2011 and have won Test series in Australia, India and South Africa in the last 5 years.

No other team have been better travelers than England in the last few years. They won't trade all of that for a few wins in Pakistan.

 

[Mamoon]

^ To add to the above, post 2010:

1 Test ranking + series win in Australia, India and South Africa

VS

Series wins in the UAE, Sri Lanka and New Zealand only, as well as a whitewash in South Africa and a drawn series in Zimbabwe.

There is no argument who the better Test team has been in the last few years. However, if Pakistan wins this series, then it certainly has a strong of not only being better than England, but also being the best contemporary side.

 

[emranabbas]

Pakistan has chasedd 380 odd, chased 300+ in 2 sessions, whitewashed Australia, beat New Zealand, beat England at Lords. These are all relatively recent?

Even if Pakistan get murdered after this(which is unlikely, a further draw is highly possible), they've done quite a lot to be considered RELATIVELY one of the best teams.

Just wondering if we are still the best team In the world?

 

[Mamoon]

Reminds me of 'is this the golden era of Pakistan batting' after we beat Australia in the UAE in 2014.

When has such threads ended well, and when have Pakistani fans learnt from the past?

They deserve all this humiliation and embarrassment for creating such predictably stupid threads.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Reminds me of 'is this the golden era of Pakistan batting' after we beat Australia in the UAE in 2014.

When has such threads ended well, and when have Pakistani fans learnt from the past?

They deserve all this humiliation and embarrassment for creating such predictably stupid threads.

You need to understand few simple things. You seems to be an intelligent person, so I assume it won't be hard for you.

1. A lot of people including you were predicting a whitewash or no win for Pakistan in this series. They already won one and busted all those myths that England will be disappointed if they do not whitewash both SL and Pakistan. Those were your own words I clearly remember when you called this summer the easiest for England.

2. England is the #1 test team in the world and specially in England, they are just too tough to beat. No shame in losing to the very best if you are competitive and shows the desire to fight. The series is not over yet, so let's just wait.

3. England won the first Ashes test by 250+ runs and then lost the 2nd one by 400+ runs. I am sure English fans did not come up with things like "we are doomed", "our cricket is finished", "we are a one-dimensional team", etc. after suffering such a humiliating defeat in their own country.

4. When was the last time England won a match against Pakistan outside England? They have not won a single test since 2000/2001 despite playing 3 away series against Pakistan. On the other hand, Pakistan already won one test in this series and won one test in the last series. So, overall they have done better than England.

5. Barring England, every other team in the world is a home track bully. Which other team has won any away series? India lost in England and NZ, SA lost in India, Australia lost in England and UAE, etc. Why does this UAE logic apply only to Pakistan then?

6. Pakistan has hardly played any cricket outside Asia in the last decade. One will be a fool to expect them to perform at the same level as let's say England who play more than double the test cricket as Pakistan in almost all conditions against all top oppositions.

7. The series is not even over yet. England will likely win this series but Pakistan can still win or draw another test. A win and a draw will be a very good result for Pakistan even if they lose this series.

 

[Strike Rate]

Reminds me of 'is this the golden era of Pakistan batting' after we beat Australia in the UAE in 2014.

When has such threads ended well, and when have Pakistani fans learnt from the past?

They deserve all this humiliation and embarrassment for creating such predictably stupid threads.

One bad overseas innings that too after years of playing at home and winning the first Test and you are back with all your usual posts? Somethings never change I guess you wait for these moments so that you can bash Pakistan team and fans

 

[Mamoon]

You need to understand few simple things. You seems to be an intelligent person, so I assume it won't be hard for you.

1. A lot of people including you were predicting a whitewash or no win for Pakistan in this series. They already won one and busted all those myths that England will be disappointed if they do not whitewash both SL and Pakistan. Those were your own words I clearly remember when you called this summer the easiest for England.

England will win this series comfortably and they won the Sri Lankan series comfortably as well. However, England should definitely be a bit disappointed because they should have won all Tests this summer.

The fact is that Sri Lanka and Pakistan are no match for a full-strength English team in English conditions.

It is a good summer for England, but it could have been greater.

2. England is the #1 test team in the world and specially in England, they are just too tough to beat. No shame in losing to the very best if you are competitive and shows the desire to fight. The series is not over yet, so let's just wait.

This match is turning into an absolute rout. Could very well be our record defeat in Test history.

I don't think this team is mentally strong enough to respond after this embarrassment. This is an aspect where this England team is very good. They brush off defeats very quickly and are able to switch on without lingering on it.

3. England won the first Ashes test by 250+ runs and then lost the 2nd one by 400+ runs. I am sure English fans did not come up with things like "we are doomed", "our cricket is finished", "we are a one-dimensional team", etc. after suffering such a humiliating defeat in their own country.

Firstly, England back themselves to win in England regardless of who they are playing against. Secondly, if Pakistan would have come anywhere close to matching England's achievements in Tests over the last 5 years, Pakistani folks would have had more reasons to be optimistic than Pakistani folks.

We are talking about a team that has reached the number one ranking and won in Australia, India and South Africa in the last 5 years, compared to a team that has played almost all of its cricket in the UAE in the last 6 years and got thumped in South Africa and couldn't even win a series in Zimbabwe.

4. When was the last time England won a match against Pakistan outside England? They have not won a single test since 2000/2001 despite playing 3 away series against Pakistan. On the other hand, Pakistan already won one test in this series and won one test in the last series. So, overall they have done better than England.

Too much is made of England not winning a Test against Pakistan in the UAE. I think we need to have some perspective here.

Firstly, the only reason why they did not win the Abu Dhabi Test was because of bad light. That match was good as a defeat for Pakistan.

Secondly, England compete pretty well in the UAE but they have been found wanting when it comes to finishing off games, while Pakistan have shown a lot of resilience which is appreciable.

The 3-0 whitewash in 2012 was by no means a one-sided series, even if we won all matches. Similarly in 2015, they were on the bring of winning in Abu Dhabi and had a 70 runs lead at Sharjah.

Pakistan on the other hand did win a match in 2010 and have won one in 2016 too, but our defeats are much heavier, we ended up getting beat black and blue.

We are absolutely thrashed in the first, second and fourth Tests in England in 2010 and we are getting absolutely thrashed here.

In fact, we can potentially suffer our worst innings defeat in Test cricket here, a record that was set at Lord's in 2010.

In other words, England could very well hand us consecutive record-breaking innings defeats in England.

In 2010, we also suffered our largest defeat by runs in the first Test.

At least England compete for 60%-70% of the matches in the UAE, while Pakistan hardly compete for more than 20% in most matches.

I don't know if I would take one or two wins and 5-6 massive thrashings or no wins but a very near-win and 2-3 normal losses.

5. Barring England, every other team in the world is a home track bully. Which other team has won any away series? India lost in England and NZ, SA lost in India, Australia lost in England and UAE, etc. Why does this UAE logic apply only to Pakistan then?

It applies to Pakistan because Pakistani fans like to pretend that Pakistan is the best Test team in the world and good enough to compete everywhere.

This thread, which came after just one match, is testament to this mentality.

If Pakistani fans accept that Pakistan is just another HTB Test team, people will not make too much of these losses, but when you talk big, you will have to bear the consequences.

Even though we got thrashed in SA in 2013 and couldn't win in Zimbabwe, Pakistani fans really overrate their Test team.

In truth, it is at the same level as India and better than Sri Lanka at the moment. Not the best team by any measure.

6. Pakistan has hardly played any cricket outside Asia in the last decade. One will be a fool to expect them to perform at the same level as let's say England who play more than double the test cricket as Pakistan in almost all conditions against all top oppositions.

That is another myth. Our batsmen simply don't have the class and the ability to score runs in places like England, Australia, South Africa etc. even if they play there every year.

Our one opener is not Test class outside Asia while our other opener is not Test class anywhere. The middle-order including Younis Khan is rubbish against quality pace bowling and so is our wicket-keeper.

Fast bowling is extremely mediocre as well.

We cannot perform at the same level as England in other countries not because England play more matches but because our batsmen are not fit to wipe shoes of Root and Cook and Anderson and Broad are far better than our pacers.

In addition, we have no all-rounders at all and they have Stokes and now Woakes.

7. The series is not even over yet. England will likely win this series but Pakistan can still win or draw another test. A win and a draw will be a very good result for Pakistan even if they lose this series.

Yes it is not over, but I don't see a way back after this thrashing. The scars won't go away easily and we are mentally shot now.

 

[Mamoon]

One bad overseas innings that too after years of playing at home and winning the first Test and you are back with all your usual posts? Somethings never change I guess you wait for these moments so that you can bash Pakistan team and fans

It is the opposite. One win against a weakened English team and we start creating these threads, just after a couple of innings against Australia in the UAE and suddenly its a new golden era of Pakistan batting.

We love to put the cart before the horse, get carried away and then get a big reality check.

I am not interested in bashing anyone but by creating premature threads like these, people only attract negative attention.

 

[Syed1]

It is the opposite. One win against a weakened English team and we start creating these threads, just after a couple of innings against Australia in the UAE and suddenly its a new golden era of Pakistan batting.

We love to put the cart before the horse, get carried away and then get a big reality check.

I am not interested in bashing anyone but by creating premature threads like these, people only attract negative attention.

A field day for you ain't it. I bet you are jumping in joy right now..

 

[Mamoon]

A field day for you ain't it. I bet you are jumping in joy right now..

It doesn't give me joy to see people fall into the same pit every time.

 

[Syed1]

It doesn't give me joy to see people fall into the same pit every time.

It does give you joy when the PCT isn't doing so well, so that you can sit on your high horse and say "Look I told you so"

 

[Mamoon]

It does give you joy when the PCT isn't doing so well, so that you can sit on your high horse and say "Look I told you so"

It happens all the time so where is the joy in it. If it is a one-off scenario, it can give you joy but not when it is routine.

My warnings are eventually proven right. That is standard procedure, and no longer enjoyable.

 

[Strike Rate]

It does give you joy when the PCT isn't doing so well, so that you can sit on your high horse and say "Look I told you so"

He is never going to admit it but we all are aware of this fact

 

[ethan hunt]

England will win this series comfortably and they won the Sri Lankan series comfortably as well. However, England should definitely be a bit disappointed because they should have won all Tests this summer.

The fact is that Sri Lanka and Pakistan are no match for a full-strength English team in English conditions.

It is a good summer for England, but it could have been greater.



This match is turning into an absolute rout. Could very well be our record defeat in Test history.

I don't think this team is mentally strong enough to respond after this embarrassment. This is an aspect where this England team is very good. They brush off defeats very quickly and are able to switch on without lingering on it.


Firstly, England back themselves to win in England regardless of who they are playing against. Secondly, if Pakistan would have come anywhere close to matching England's achievements in Tests over the last 5 years, Pakistani folks would have had more reasons to be optimistic than Pakistani folks.

We are talking about a team that has reached the number one ranking and won in Australia, India and South Africa in the last 5 years, compared to a team that has played almost all of its cricket in the UAE in the last 6 years and got thumped in South Africa and couldn't even win a series in Zimbabwe.


Too much is made of England not winning a Test against Pakistan in the UAE. I think we need to have some perspective here.

Firstly, the only reason why they did not win the Abu Dhabi Test was because of bad light. That match was good as a defeat for Pakistan.

Secondly, England compete pretty well in the UAE but they have been found wanting when it comes to finishing off games, while Pakistan have shown a lot of resilience which is appreciable.

The 3-0 whitewash in 2012 was by no means a one-sided series, even if we won all matches. Similarly in 2015, they were on the bring of winning in Abu Dhabi and had a 70 runs lead at Sharjah.

Pakistan on the other hand did win a match in 2010 and have won one in 2016 too, but our defeats are much heavier, we ended up getting beat black and blue.

We are absolutely thrashed in the first, second and fourth Tests in England in 2010 and we are getting absolutely thrashed here.

In fact, we can potentially suffer our worst innings defeat in Test cricket here, a record that was set at Lord's in 2010.

In other words, England could very well hand us consecutive record-breaking innings defeats in England.

In 2010, we also suffered our largest defeat by runs in the first Test.

At least England compete for 60%-70% of the matches in the UAE, while Pakistan hardly compete for more than 20% in most matches.

I don't know if I would take one or two wins and 5-6 massive thrashings or no wins but a very near-win and 2-3 normal losses.


It applies to Pakistan because Pakistani fans like to pretend that Pakistan is the best Test team in the world and good enough to compete everywhere.

This thread, which came after just one match, is testament to this mentality.

If Pakistani fans accept that Pakistan is just another HTB Test team, people will not make too much of these losses, but when you talk big, you will have to bear the consequences.

Even though we got thrashed in SA in 2013 and couldn't win in Zimbabwe, Pakistani fans really overrate their Test team.

In truth, it is at the same level as India and better than Sri Lanka at the moment. Not the best team by any measure.


That is another myth. Our batsmen simply don't have the class and the ability to score runs in places like England, Australia, South Africa etc. even if they play there every year.

Our one opener is not Test class outside Asia while our other opener is not Test class anywhere. The middle-order including Younis Khan is rubbish against quality pace bowling and so is our wicket-keeper.

Fast bowling is extremely mediocre as well.

We cannot perform at the same level as England in other countries not because England play more matches but because our batsmen are not fit to wipe shoes of Root and Cook and Anderson and Broad are far better than our pacers.

In addition, we have no all-rounders at all and they have Stokes and now Woakes.



Yes it is not over, but I don't see a way back after this thrashing. The scars won't go away easily and we are mentally shot now.

I ll take a win or two everyday over looking good . Winning ugly is better than losing pretty . Its the end result that counts . People dont remember anything else .
Fact is luck is an important part of sport and you dont keep crying about it , sometimes the unpires rob you other times rain . Doesnt matter.
The only thing that is of relevance is that pakistan have won the last 6 of their 7 tests vs this opponent and is leading the current series 1-0 I could care less how this limited side wins as long as they do.

 

[ethan hunt]

It happens all the time so where is the joy in it. If it is a one-off scenario, it can give you joy but not when it is routine.

My warnings are eventually proven right. That is standard procedure, and no longer enjoyable.

You missed out on enjoying 6 pakistani victories in preparing yourself for an eventual defeat . Lol , must b a fun life.

 

[Strike Rate]

Looks like we are going to show good fight in this match