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Some examples of misleading stats in cricket?

DeadBall

First Class Captain
Joined
Jan 26, 2018
Runs
6,083
We all know everyone loves to bring up stats during a debate but they can sometimes be misleading.

For me one is Dhoni's above 50 average which he maintains due to tuk tuking for most of the innings and then hit a couple of boundaries in the last couple of overs and remains not out to inflate his average.

Another one is Babar who has a 50+ average but got it mostly due to WI and SL bashng along with one selfish 100 in Australia, although he still has a lot of time to improve.

What are some of yours?
 
Kohli? A career of milking runs against dumb bowlers or on dead tracks.

stats considered in isolation are always misleading. which means not only that other stats besides ave also matter - ie SR, number of centuries in clutch situations etc - but, above all, that one can only begin to know the worth of a 50 something average if other averages are not compared to it.

understanding this most basic of premises is the problem equally for detractors of kohli and for those who extrapolate, from the poor quality of domestic cricket in pakistan, to the idea that stats can not be used as indicators in selecting players for the national team.

nothing stops other batsmen from milking more runs than kohli, from today's supposedly inferior bowlers, but he has progressively put more and more distance between himself and the rest of the pack. if anything, i feel the 8 point gap between his average and babar's underestimates the chasm separating the two players.

one of the things that always stood out for me is what numbers could have told us about a player like rahat ali, who got a long run in the national squad on the basis of pretty ordinary stats by domestic standards. at some point he averaged high 30 in LOIs, while someone like sadaf averaged 18.

that is a ludicrous gap. but what really stood out for me is rahat's inability to take big hauls in fist class cricket - in his entire domestic career, in a time in which other bowlers were running rampant, he never took a single 10 fer.

this is a bit like another mentally weak player, today seen in action in the psl, whose physical attributes should have made him a great bowler, steve finn. here is someone who could run through a lineup, and did, on a few spectacular occasions, but could so rarely hold it together long enough over a course of one match. and as with rahat, we might see signs of this is we look in his stats.

the problem is not that stats lie, but that they don't provide that which we otherwise and erroneously expect from numbers and scientific measurement, which is certainty, the comfort of feeling a stable ground beneath our feet. science is not based on certainty, but precisely on leaps of faith, the aha moment of a theorist, who must then go about putting their theory into practice. ie, testing it out.
 
Kohli? A career of milking runs against dumb bowlers or on dead tracks.

He should not score at all. When he does not score---bowler is great/ball was moving/green pitch

When he scores----bowler is dumb/flat pitches

Question---why other great batsmen playing in same era do not have same stats??

Jealousy and bitterness side pe rakhe aur reply karein.....
 
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He should not score at all. When he does not score---bowler is great/ball was moving/green pitch

When he scores----bowler is dumb/flat pitches

Question---why other great batsmen playing in same era do not have same stats??

Jealousy and bitterness side pe rakhe aur reply karein.....

I admired the previous generation of Indian batsman 'bitterness side pe rakh ke hi'.

Answer is because of BCCI's dominance, there could be fear of poor IPL contracts or something else. South Africa was never a spinning place, but was made one only for 'King Kohli' to appear good there.

Let him play couple of games against Pakistan, you'll know. Then the usual excuses will come up that 'he had one bad innings' etc.
 
Kamran Akmal's wicket-keeping stats.
 
I admired the previous generation of Indian batsman 'bitterness side pe rakh ke hi'.

Answer is because of BCCI's dominance, there could be fear of poor IPL contracts or something else. South Africa was never a spinning place, but was made one only for 'King Kohli' to appear good there.

Why was that fear missing during the Test Matches ? The last test match had 10 fast bowlers playing with ZERO spinners. You may not know this but Kohli was the highest run scorer in the Test Series as well.

Secondly why did the SA spinners choke on the same spinning wkts ? And how come our fast bowlers bowled better on the same spinning wkts than SA fast bowlers ?

The amount of burn is quite evident


Let him play couple of games against Pakistan, you'll know. Then the usual excuses will come up that 'he had one bad innings' etc.

excuses huh? ... lets see ... he has already played 18 matches (ODIs + T20s ) and avg 54.84 at SR of 100 :))

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/253802.html?class=11;template=results;type=batting
 
Why was that fear missing during the Test Matches ? The last test match had 10 fast bowlers playing with ZERO spinners. You may not know this but Kohli was the highest run scorer in the Test Series as well.

Secondly why did the SA spinners choke on the same spinning wkts ? And how come our fast bowlers bowled better on the same spinning wkts than SA fast bowlers ?

The amount of burn is quite evident




excuses huh? ... lets see ... he has already played 18 matches (ODIs + T20s ) and avg 54.84 at SR of 100 :))

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/253802.html?class=11;template=results;type=batting

LOL..Its quite obvious he is trolling. Shouldn't really be taken seriously and of worth replying.
 
Jayawardene's Test average of almost 50 with 11 thousand odd runs. More than 7k of those runs are in SL.
 
I admired the previous generation of Indian batsman 'bitterness side pe rakh ke hi'.

Answer is because of BCCI's dominance, there could be fear of poor IPL contracts or something else. South Africa was never a spinning place, but was made one only for 'King Kohli' to appear good there.

Let him play couple of games against Pakistan, you'll know. Then the usual excuses will come up that 'he had one bad innings' etc.

Still question remains unanswered...why other batsmen playing in same era do not have similar stats, if scoring was that easy?

Jealousy or bitterness never helps bro.
 
Granted Dhoni has been on a terminal decline last couple of years but his stats are hardly misleading. But more hysterical is the claim that he 'tuk tuked'. Probably a new follower of the great game or suffering from impaired memory.
 
Babar Azam's ODI average is the first thing that came to my mind before I even opened this thread.
 
Kohli bashers in full force LOL and the indians fall for the bait evrytime I'm fed up with this kohli bashing/kohli defending, ignore the trolls will ya. Why is Yousuf so underrated? class player and no his stats are not misleading.
 
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Kohli bashers in full force LOL and the indians fall for the bait evrytime I'm fed up with this kohli bashing/kohli defending, ignore the trolls will ya. Why is Yousuf so underrated? class player and no his stats are not misleading.

Let's try being unbiased here and look at his Test career -


vs Aus - 29.61

vs SA - 29.75

vs SL - 29


He averages below 30 against 3 major Test playing nations, 2 of them having the best attacks of his time.


Now let's have a look at how well he did in a few countries -


in Aus - 31.88

in SA - 26.10

in SL - 33.80

in Ind - 33.73

That's 4 countries where he has poor numbers.
 
Let's try being unbiased here and look at his Test career -

Was think of yousuf the odi player but yeah I do agree stats don't lie, however his odi stats in Asia are great yes he was home track bully in era he played he along with inzi was doing the bulk of the scoring for Pak in odis and was one of the most aesthetically pleasing players to grace the game. by the way I said yousaf was CLASS not ATG or GOAT etc.
 
I knew our resident stats guru could not resist this thread. Any stats to confirm the obvious?

[table=width: 700, class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Player [/td][td]Span [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Inns [/td][td]Dis [/td][td]Ct [/td][td]St [/td][td]Ct Wk [/td][td]Dismissals/Inn [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AC Gilchrist (AUS) [/td][td]1999-2008 [/td][td]96 [/td][td]191 [/td][td]416 [/td][td]379 [/td][td]37 [/td][td]379 [/td][td]2.178 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]BJ Haddin (AUS) [/td][td]2008-2015 [/td][td]66 [/td][td]128 [/td][td]270 [/td][td]262 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]262 [/td][td]2.109 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Kamran Akmal (PAK) [/td][td]2002-2010 [/td][td]53 [/td][td]99 [/td][td]206 [/td][td]184 [/td][td]22 [/td][td]184 [/td][td]2.08 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MV Boucher (ICC/SA) [/td][td]1997-2012 [/td][td]147 [/td][td]281 [/td][td]555 [/td][td]532 [/td][td]23 [/td][td]532 [/td][td]1.975 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RW Marsh (AUS) [/td][td]1970-1984 [/td][td]96 [/td][td]182 [/td][td]355 [/td][td]343 [/td][td]12 [/td][td]343 [/td][td]1.95 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]ATW Grout (AUS) [/td][td]1957-1966 [/td][td]51 [/td][td]98 [/td][td]187 [/td][td]163 [/td][td]24 [/td][td]163 [/td][td]1.908 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RD Jacobs (WI) [/td][td]1998-2004 [/td][td]65 [/td][td]122 [/td][td]219 [/td][td]207 [/td][td]12 [/td][td]207 [/td][td]1.795 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MS Dhoni (INDIA) [/td][td]2005-2014 [/td][td]90 [/td][td]166 [/td][td]294 [/td][td]256 [/td][td]38 [/td][td]256 [/td][td]1.771 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]PJL Dujon (WI) [/td][td]1981-1991 [/td][td]81 [/td][td]154 [/td][td]272 [/td][td]267 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]265 [/td][td]1.766 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]IA Healy (AUS) [/td][td]1988-1999 [/td][td]119 [/td][td]224 [/td][td]395 [/td][td]366 [/td][td]29 [/td][td]366 [/td][td]1.763 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MJ Prior (ENG) [/td][td]2007-2014 [/td][td]79 [/td][td]146 [/td][td]256 [/td][td]243 [/td][td]13 [/td][td]243 [/td][td]1.753 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RC Russell (ENG) [/td][td]1988-1998 [/td][td]54 [/td][td]96 [/td][td]165 [/td][td]153 [/td][td]12 [/td][td]153 [/td][td]1.718 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]D Ramdin (WI) [/td][td]2005-2016 [/td][td]74 [/td][td]131 [/td][td]217 [/td][td]205 [/td][td]12 [/td][td]205 [/td][td]1.656 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RW Taylor (ENG) [/td][td]1971-1984 [/td][td]57 [/td][td]106 [/td][td]174 [/td][td]167 [/td][td]7 [/td][td]167 [/td][td]1.641 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]IDS Smith (NZ) [/td][td]1980-1992 [/td][td]63 [/td][td]109 [/td][td]176 [/td][td]168 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]168 [/td][td]1.614 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]DL Murray (WI) [/td][td]1963-1980 [/td][td]62 [/td][td]119 [/td][td]189 [/td][td]181 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]181 [/td][td]1.588 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Wasim Bari (PAK) [/td][td]1967-1984 [/td][td]81 [/td][td]146 [/td][td]228 [/td][td]201 [/td][td]27 [/td][td]201 [/td][td]1.561 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]APE Knott (ENG) [/td][td]1967-1981 [/td][td]95 [/td][td]174 [/td][td]269 [/td][td]250 [/td][td]19 [/td][td]250 [/td][td]1.545 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]HAPW Jayawardene (SL) [/td][td]2000-2015 [/td][td]58 [/td][td]102 [/td][td]156 [/td][td]124 [/td][td]32 [/td][td]124 [/td][td]1.529 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AC Parore (NZ) [/td][td]1990-2002 [/td][td]78 [/td][td]138 [/td][td]204 [/td][td]197 [/td][td]7 [/td][td]194 [/td][td]1.478 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]A Flower (ZIM) [/td][td]1992-2002 [/td][td]63 [/td][td]110 [/td][td]160 [/td][td]151 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]142 [/td][td]1.454 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SMH Kirmani (INDIA) [/td][td]1976-1986 [/td][td]88 [/td][td]151 [/td][td]198 [/td][td]160 [/td][td]38 [/td][td]160 [/td][td]1.311 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]WAS Oldfield (AUS) [/td][td]1920-1937 [/td][td]54 [/td][td]101 [/td][td]130 [/td][td]78 [/td][td]52 [/td][td]78 [/td][td]1.287 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]TG Evans (ENG) [/td][td]1946-1959 [/td][td]91 [/td][td]175 [/td][td]219 [/td][td]173 [/td][td]46 [/td][td]173 [/td][td]1.251 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AJ Stewart (ENG) [/td][td]1990-2003 [/td][td]133 [/td][td]231 [/td][td]277 [/td][td]263 [/td][td]14 [/td][td]227 [/td][td]1.199 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Moin Khan (PAK) [/td][td]1990-2004 [/td][td]69 [/td][td]124 [/td][td]148 [/td][td]128 [/td][td]20 [/td][td]127 [/td][td]1.193 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]BB McCullum (NZ) [/td][td]2004-2016 [/td][td]101 [/td][td]186 [/td][td]209 [/td][td]198 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]168 [/td][td]1.123 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mushfiqur Rahim (BDESH) [/td][td]2005-2018 [/td][td]60 [/td][td]103 [/td][td]111 [/td][td]98 [/td][td]13 [/td][td]93 [/td][td]1.077 [/td][/tr]
[/table]
 
Posters can call me biased but that is what I think of him:

1) Struggled heavily in spin friendly and bouncy conditions( Aus, SA, Ind, SL- four really big countries)

2) King of soft runs in all formats( he doesnt have a single 50 in WC against any of test playing nations and is a bottler as well)

3) A minnow basher( avgs 250 vs pre Shakib BD and 68 vs Zim)

4) Very poor leader & absolutely no charisma

5) Batted lower down the order and hide from new ball leaving the younger guy Younis to do harder work.

He has scored heavily at home, Eng , NZ and WI but struggled in as many as four really big countries- Aus, SA, Ind and SL( a good side back then).

Clearly, an avg of 52 in tests as it looks on face value is highly misleading and so is his avg of 44 in odis.
 
On other hand, I rate Miandad, Inzy, Younis, Anwar and Abbas very highly.

And also consider Imran, Wasim, Waqar, Miandad and Saqlain as absolute legends of the game. Think I dint missed anyone.

Forgot Shoaib Akhtar- another delight to watch and on his young day the most threatening player ever seen.
 
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[table=width: 700, class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Player [/td][td]Span [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Inns [/td][td]Dis [/td][td]Ct [/td][td]St [/td][td]Ct Wk [/td][td]Dismissals/Inn [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AC Gilchrist (AUS) [/td][td]1999-2008 [/td][td]96 [/td][td]191 [/td][td]416 [/td][td]379 [/td][td]37 [/td][td]379 [/td][td]2.178 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]BJ Haddin (AUS) [/td][td]2008-2015 [/td][td]66 [/td][td]128 [/td][td]270 [/td][td]262 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]262 [/td][td]2.109 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Kamran Akmal (PAK) [/td][td]2002-2010 [/td][td]53 [/td][td]99 [/td][td]206 [/td][td]184 [/td][td]22 [/td][td]184 [/td][td]2.08 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MV Boucher (ICC/SA) [/td][td]1997-2012 [/td][td]147 [/td][td]281 [/td][td]555 [/td][td]532 [/td][td]23 [/td][td]532 [/td][td]1.975 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RW Marsh (AUS) [/td][td]1970-1984 [/td][td]96 [/td][td]182 [/td][td]355 [/td][td]343 [/td][td]12 [/td][td]343 [/td][td]1.95 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]ATW Grout (AUS) [/td][td]1957-1966 [/td][td]51 [/td][td]98 [/td][td]187 [/td][td]163 [/td][td]24 [/td][td]163 [/td][td]1.908 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RD Jacobs (WI) [/td][td]1998-2004 [/td][td]65 [/td][td]122 [/td][td]219 [/td][td]207 [/td][td]12 [/td][td]207 [/td][td]1.795 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MS Dhoni (INDIA) [/td][td]2005-2014 [/td][td]90 [/td][td]166 [/td][td]294 [/td][td]256 [/td][td]38 [/td][td]256 [/td][td]1.771 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]PJL Dujon (WI) [/td][td]1981-1991 [/td][td]81 [/td][td]154 [/td][td]272 [/td][td]267 [/td][td]5 [/td][td]265 [/td][td]1.766 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]IA Healy (AUS) [/td][td]1988-1999 [/td][td]119 [/td][td]224 [/td][td]395 [/td][td]366 [/td][td]29 [/td][td]366 [/td][td]1.763 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MJ Prior (ENG) [/td][td]2007-2014 [/td][td]79 [/td][td]146 [/td][td]256 [/td][td]243 [/td][td]13 [/td][td]243 [/td][td]1.753 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RC Russell (ENG) [/td][td]1988-1998 [/td][td]54 [/td][td]96 [/td][td]165 [/td][td]153 [/td][td]12 [/td][td]153 [/td][td]1.718 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]D Ramdin (WI) [/td][td]2005-2016 [/td][td]74 [/td][td]131 [/td][td]217 [/td][td]205 [/td][td]12 [/td][td]205 [/td][td]1.656 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RW Taylor (ENG) [/td][td]1971-1984 [/td][td]57 [/td][td]106 [/td][td]174 [/td][td]167 [/td][td]7 [/td][td]167 [/td][td]1.641 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]IDS Smith (NZ) [/td][td]1980-1992 [/td][td]63 [/td][td]109 [/td][td]176 [/td][td]168 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]168 [/td][td]1.614 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]DL Murray (WI) [/td][td]1963-1980 [/td][td]62 [/td][td]119 [/td][td]189 [/td][td]181 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]181 [/td][td]1.588 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Wasim Bari (PAK) [/td][td]1967-1984 [/td][td]81 [/td][td]146 [/td][td]228 [/td][td]201 [/td][td]27 [/td][td]201 [/td][td]1.561 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]APE Knott (ENG) [/td][td]1967-1981 [/td][td]95 [/td][td]174 [/td][td]269 [/td][td]250 [/td][td]19 [/td][td]250 [/td][td]1.545 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]HAPW Jayawardene (SL) [/td][td]2000-2015 [/td][td]58 [/td][td]102 [/td][td]156 [/td][td]124 [/td][td]32 [/td][td]124 [/td][td]1.529 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AC Parore (NZ) [/td][td]1990-2002 [/td][td]78 [/td][td]138 [/td][td]204 [/td][td]197 [/td][td]7 [/td][td]194 [/td][td]1.478 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]A Flower (ZIM) [/td][td]1992-2002 [/td][td]63 [/td][td]110 [/td][td]160 [/td][td]151 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]142 [/td][td]1.454 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SMH Kirmani (INDIA) [/td][td]1976-1986 [/td][td]88 [/td][td]151 [/td][td]198 [/td][td]160 [/td][td]38 [/td][td]160 [/td][td]1.311 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]WAS Oldfield (AUS) [/td][td]1920-1937 [/td][td]54 [/td][td]101 [/td][td]130 [/td][td]78 [/td][td]52 [/td][td]78 [/td][td]1.287 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]TG Evans (ENG) [/td][td]1946-1959 [/td][td]91 [/td][td]175 [/td][td]219 [/td][td]173 [/td][td]46 [/td][td]173 [/td][td]1.251 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AJ Stewart (ENG) [/td][td]1990-2003 [/td][td]133 [/td][td]231 [/td][td]277 [/td][td]263 [/td][td]14 [/td][td]227 [/td][td]1.199 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Moin Khan (PAK) [/td][td]1990-2004 [/td][td]69 [/td][td]124 [/td][td]148 [/td][td]128 [/td][td]20 [/td][td]127 [/td][td]1.193 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]BB McCullum (NZ) [/td][td]2004-2016 [/td][td]101 [/td][td]186 [/td][td]209 [/td][td]198 [/td][td]11 [/td][td]168 [/td][td]1.123 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mushfiqur Rahim (BDESH) [/td][td]2005-2018 [/td][td]60 [/td][td]103 [/td][td]111 [/td][td]98 [/td][td]13 [/td][td]93 [/td][td]1.077 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

Wow I am surprised he is in the top 3. Imagine if he wasn't a cheater and a fixer and had actually caught a few more. The WC NZ match is still fresh in my mind. However he is just as competent at the domestic level where I saw him drop a few dollies, so you never know.
 
Posters can call me biased but that is what I think of him:

1) Struggled heavily in spin friendly and bouncy conditions( Aus, SA, Ind, SL- four really big countries)

2) King of soft runs in all formats( he doesnt have a single 50 in WC against any of test playing nations and is a bottler as well)

3) A minnow basher( avgs 250 vs pre Shakib BD and 68 vs Zim)

4) Very poor leader & absolutely no charisma

5) Batted lower down the order and hide from new ball leaving the younger guy Younis to do harder work.

He has scored heavily at home, Eng , NZ and WI but struggled in as many as four really big countries- Aus, SA, Ind and SL( a good side back then).

Clearly, an avg of 52 in tests as it looks on face value is highly misleading and so is his avg of 44 in odis.

Younis?
 
Hashim Amla's ODI Stats.

Useless and Impactless contribution.
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]
 
For me one is Dhoni's above 50 average which he maintains due to tuk tuking for most of the innings and then hit a couple of boundaries in the last couple of overs and remains not out to inflate his average.

Dhoni has only been doing that recently. He maintained an average above 50 while scoring a lot of runs before that. You don't get 10000 runs at an average of 50 by doing that.
 
Dhoni's ODI record is not misleading. The guy is on a decline over the last couple of years but is still a ODI legend.
 
What about Abdul Qadir's average of 48 @ SR 98 away from home?
That’s true. Qadir is fondly remembered for helping keep a dying art on the scene. Not to mention he helped mentor Warne a bit in his early years on his wrong’un.
 
Bhuvi: in ODIs, 90 wkts, avg of 38.31 @ S/R of 46.0 in 86 matches

Wahab: in ODIs, 102 wkts, avg of 34.34 @ S/R of 36.2 in 79 matches

Yet, Bhuvi wipes the floor with Wahab
 
Bhuvi: in ODIs, 90 wkts, avg of 38.31 @ S/R of 46.0 in 86 matches

Wahab: in ODIs, 102 wkts, avg of 34.34 @ S/R of 36.2 in 79 matches

Yet, Bhuvi wipes the floor with Wahab

Not so simple. Bhuvi is no world beater in ODIs but he's certainly not as bad as Wahab. For one, I like how you didn't find it worthwhile to mention their economy rate, an important stat in LOIs.

Also, Bhuvi has played 20 more matches against top 6 ODI teams compared to Wahab (65 vs 45) and averages better than the latter with a vastly superior economy rate. If I were to trim the record against, top 5 or top 3 ODI teams, Bhuvi gets further ahead.
 
Dhoni? Dude he did one of the hardest job for India. After he became a captain he became a master of percentage cricket. He showed how to take the game to the deep end and win from there and turned India into a gun chasing unit. At his best he is the most invaluable match winner.
 
M Vijay's batting average is much less than the value he brings into the side.This guy was rock solid against outside the off stump. Swing, pace, bounce you throw anything he would negotiate and see off the toughest phase of the innings. WHere he failed was right after he did that he would get out.
 
Not so simple. Bhuvi is no world beater in ODIs but he's certainly not as bad as Wahab. For one, I like how you didn't find it worthwhile to mention their economy rate, an important stat in LOIs.

Also, Bhuvi has played 20 more matches against top 6 ODI teams compared to Wahab (65 vs 45) and averages better than the latter with a vastly superior economy rate. If I were to trim the record against, top 5 or top 3 ODI teams, Bhuvi gets further ahead.

Not sure what you're arguing? I didn't say it sarcastically, I actually meant Bhuvi wipes the floor with Wahab but the face value stats generally paint a picture of equity or Wahab being slightly better...
 
Not sure what you're arguing? I didn't say it sarcastically, I actually meant Bhuvi wipes the floor with Wahab but the face value stats generally paint a picture of equity or Wahab being slightly better...

In which case, I'll have to say you are wrong to say Bhuvi wipes the floor with Wahab in ODIs. He's better, but not by much.
 
In which case, I'll have to say you are wrong to say Bhuvi wipes the floor with Wahab in ODIs. He's better, but not by much.

Wahab alone loses ten more games than he wins, being very kind to him, while Bhuvi is as consistent as you'd want and is outstanding at the death. Consistent, can swing at the start, can bowl yorkers at the end - he's a proper package vs a spraygun. I'll stand by my statement, he definitely wipes the floor with Wahab. Bhuvi quite arguably makes a Indo-Pak combined ODI XI, Wahab doesn't even warm the bench.
 
Kohli bashers in full force LOL and the indians fall for the bait evrytime I'm fed up with this kohli bashing/kohli defending, ignore the trolls will ya. Why is Yousuf so underrated? class player and no his stats are not misleading.


Yousuf was a serial bottler.
 
Glad to see that Kohli has already been mentioned. The most overhyped ODI career ever by far.
 
Flintoff bowling average in tests was misleading - he was a quality bowler who would take crucial wickets and change the game.
 
Murali, Ajmal, Hafeez, Harbhajjan, Ojha's etc bowling stats.

They all had obvious advantages that others couldn't replicate because they held the games laws in high regards, Murali's due to his "natural" advantage, and the rest due to chucking through unnatural means.
 
Bradman's average in tests.

I doubt he can replicate that in modern era
 
Kohli Test stats at Home where he averages 63.50.Yes,he inflated his average by scoring multiple Double hundreds against SL and BD on ultra Flat pitches.But In between those two series (Bd and SL)came Steve Smith's Australia and he was caught with his pants down.

Kohli is a dead rubber specialist who has mastered the art of scoring soft runs in Subcontinental conditions.
 
And the modern ATGs can replicate that average in Bradman's era?

Of course, if they played 50+ matches against their favorite opponent. Unfortunately for Bradman, due to the number of teams he played against, the inflated stats argument goes against his favor. Following players have 90+ average against their favourite opposition.

Sehwag - 91.14 against Pakistan (1276 runs)
Yousuf - 101.16 against West Indies (1214 runs)
Sangakkara - 95.57 against Bangladesh (1816 runs)

It's entirely believable than Sangakkara would have Bradmanesque stats had he batted against Bangladesh only. Bradman's stats are extremely misleading for many reasons.
 
Of course, if they played 50+ matches against their favorite opponent. Unfortunately for Bradman, due to the number of teams he played against, the inflated stats argument goes against his favor. Following players have 90+ average against their favourite opposition.

Sehwag - 91.14 against Pakistan (1276 runs)
Yousuf - 101.16 against West Indies (1214 runs)
Sangakkara - 95.57 against Bangladesh (1816 runs)

It's entirely believable than Sangakkara would have Bradmanesque stats had he batted against Bangladesh only. Bradman's stats are extremely misleading for many reasons.

That too in 2 countries.
 
Of course, if they played 50+ matches against their favorite opponent. Unfortunately for Bradman, due to the number of teams he played against, the inflated stats argument goes against his favor. Following players have 90+ average against their favourite opposition.

Sehwag - 91.14 against Pakistan (1276 runs)
Yousuf - 101.16 against West Indies (1214 runs)
Sangakkara - 95.57 against Bangladesh (1816 runs)

It's entirely believable than Sangakkara would have Bradmanesque stats had he batted against Bangladesh only. Bradman's stats are extremely misleading for many reasons.

Give sanga bat which bradman used along with no protection gear and let me see how he avg around 100. If it was so easy in that era then everyone would have averaged atleast 60+.
 
Of course, if they played 50+ matches against their favorite opponent. Unfortunately for Bradman, due to the number of teams he played against, the inflated stats argument goes against his favor. Following players have 90+ average against their favourite opposition.

Sehwag - 91.14 against Pakistan (1276 runs)
Yousuf - 101.16 against West Indies (1214 runs)
Sangakkara - 95.57 against Bangladesh (1816 runs)

It's entirely believable than Sangakkara would have Bradmanesque stats had he batted against Bangladesh only. Bradman's stats are extremely misleading for many reasons.

All I'd say you have a very limited understanding of statistics and the great game both. England was the strongest team in his era and his average would be comfortably north of 100 if not for England. Check out his averages against other countries. Also, his average accrued after playing well over a period of 20 years. In other words, it was not just a rich vein of form that helped him with his astonishing stat.
 
Yousuf a bottler? not sure about that, agreed he's comments/behavior post career are not the most graceful, nor was his minor stint as captain.

His big hundreds in England with us at 28-2 and 36-2, this sort of scenario was a very common one which Yousuf (and Younis) would face. And like good batsmen, they responded to adversity.

As with many, many a Pakistan player - he had unfinished business, perhaps Younis is the only player in recent times to fulfil his abilities.

Yousuf, also a very fluent ODI player, before the regular heavy hitting came in.
 
Kohli Test stats at Home where he averages 63.50.Yes,he inflated his average by scoring multiple Double hundreds against SL and BD on ultra Flat pitches.But In between those two series (Bd and SL)came Steve Smith's Australia and he was caught with his pants down.

Kohli is a dead rubber specialist who has mastered the art of scoring soft runs in Subcontinental conditions.

Thanks for sharing your cricketing knowledge.
 
Thanks for sharing your cricketing knowledge.

You're welcome.Good thing for King Kohli is that he is still a great player of spin,so expect much better performance from him at home next time around.
 
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