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South Africa (181/3) defeat England (179) comprehensively by 7 wickets to advance to semi-finals of ICC Champions Trophy 2025

I don’t know why we are amusing ourselves over England’s struggles, does it make us feel better about the draconian cricket which Pakistan play? England have their problems yes, but they are much better placed than Pakistan to recover from them. It was not too long ago that they won the World T20 and they consistently do well in that format, and found to a way to end their terrible Test record under the past regime. I trust Baz and co to find an answer because they at least are aware of the answer to the examine question regarding what is needed for modern cricket, so it’s the execution which will take focus. They invest in the right players, don’t meddle in politics and even someone like Butler is not empowered enough to have the final say in things like who should be the England coach, not that he is selfish enough to cripple his country by interfering in matters like that. If I have a criticism of Butler it’s that he has been too selfless and willing to accommodate who or whatever to give them every chance to succeed despite being the franchise player. Hopefully he can take some time out and we give him a more defined role so he can start enjoying his cricket again.
 
England brainless cricket can works in T20 cricket but it's won't works in 50 over cricket.

They have to play sensible cricket instead Batting like Tullebaaz

:kp
 
@daytrader

Btw I do agree with you one thing. I'd rather take a 60 runs of 80 balls then 10 runs of 3 balls in odi cricket.

However England's problem isn't that their playing reckless or attacking cricket.

Phil Salt is out of form but I don't mind him as he plays with the right intent. He's the only outlier due to form.

The issue is

1) Jamie smith isn't a no 3, so no clue what England are trying to achieve.

2) Root being a no 4 is downright comical, He's always been a slow accumulator with a horrible conversion rate against top teams in odi, so no idea why their giving him a no where he comes even lower down the order to kill the momentum.

3) Brooks isn't a whiteball player. He's a certified pace basher. In tests you can get away with it but endlessly blocking spin but in odi, he just doesn't know how to attack spin and he doesn't have infinite time to block it out.

4) Butler is aging and his reactions are declining.

5) Nothing wrong with livingstone, a 31 avg 108 sr player at no 7 is fantastic in odi cricket but salts form, Jamie smith at no 3 and brook at 5, ensure that Liam has to play an anchor or rebuilding role and he isn't good at that.

England is failing mainly due to the fact that their order combination is totally wrong and incorrect.

Root should be at no 3, and besides duckett, everyone else should be kicked out and a new younger team should replace.
 
mominsaigol said:
@daytrader

Btw I do agree with you one thing. I'd rather take a 60 runs of 80 balls then 10 runs of 3 balls in odi cricket.

However England's problem isn't that their playing reckless or attacking cricket.

Phil Salt is out of form but I don't mind him as he plays with the right intent. He's the only outlier due to form.

The issue is

1) Jamie smith isn't a no 3, so no clue what England are trying to achieve.

2) Root being a no 4 is downright comical, He's always been a slow accumulator with a horrible conversion rate against top teams in odi, so no idea why their giving him a no where he comes even lower down the order to kill the momentum.

3) Brooks isn't a whiteball player. He's a certified pace basher. In tests you can get away with it but endlessly blocking spin but in odi, he just doesn't know how to attack spin and he doesn't have infinite time to block it out.

4) Butler is aging and his reactions are declining.

5) Nothing wrong with livingstone, a 31 avg 108 sr player at no 7 is fantastic in odi cricket but salts form, Jamie smith at no 3 and brook at 5, ensure that Liam has to play an anchor or rebuilding role and he isn't good at that.

England is failing mainly due to the fact that their order combination is totally wrong and incorrect.

Root should be at no 3, and besides duckett, everyone else should be kicked out and a new younger team should replace.
Click to expand...
Ducket, another opener (Buttler can be here), Root, Bethell. This should be top 4. Also Adil Rashid for sure in bowling + Archer
 
Flagship team of the Gung ho approach is all out for 179 on a phatta wicket, wasting 12 overs remaining.
 
England has been bowled out 21 times under Buttler's captaincy, accounting for 48% of the matches he's led. In comparison, under Eoin Morgan, the figure was just 26%.
 
What a stark contrast between top 4 and bottom 4. Bangladesh is embarrassing. 71 strike rate 22 avge

TeamAvgeSR
Australia73.33121.21
India57.6286.32
New Zealand54.193.76
South Africa50.33100.66
England28.3595.43
Afghanistan27.7486.89
Pakistan23.9582.3
Bangladesh22.6371.78
 
InshaAllah the lions will roar again.

New faces will arrive, philosophy of all or nothing will not and should not change!

Never will we return to pre-2015
 
That confirms South Africa's place in the semi-finals, regardless of the outcome of this match, as Afghanistan can no longer surpass them on net run rate.
 
mominsaigol said:
@daytrader

Btw I do agree with you one thing. I'd rather take a 60 runs of 80 balls then 10 runs of 3 balls in odi cricket.

However England's problem isn't that their playing reckless or attacking cricket.

Phil Salt is out of form but I don't mind him as he plays with the right intent. He's the only outlier due to form.

The issue is

1) Jamie smith isn't a no 3, so no clue what England are trying to achieve.

2) Root being a no 4 is downright comical, He's always been a slow accumulator with a horrible conversion rate against top teams in odi, so no idea why their giving him a no where he comes even lower down the order to kill the momentum.

3) Brooks isn't a whiteball player. He's a certified pace basher. In tests you can get away with it but endlessly blocking spin but in odi, he just doesn't know how to attack spin and he doesn't have infinite time to block it out.

4) Butler is aging and his reactions are declining.

5) Nothing wrong with livingstone, a 31 avg 108 sr player at no 7 is fantastic in odi cricket but salts form, Jamie smith at no 3 and brook at 5, ensure that Liam has to play an anchor or rebuilding role and he isn't good at that.

England is failing mainly due to the fact that their order combination is totally wrong and incorrect.

Root should be at no 3, and besides duckett, everyone else should be kicked out and a new younger team should replace.
Click to expand...


I think this selection and lineup was a conscious decision by McCullum and he's been adment that this is the only way to play. They've been gearing up for this since last year Ausrtalia series.

Should've picked Moeen bhai and Sam Curran as both of them have the ability to play at any position and situation. They could've provided this lineup with flexibility that they badly missed
 
Rana said:
InshaAllah the lions will roar again.

New faces will arrive, philosophy of all or nothing will not and should not change!

Never will we return to pre-2015
Click to expand...
You won't return to pre 2015, but you will remain weak for a while now. Till 2027 excluding minnows, you will remain comfortably behind The rest of SENA and India.

A couple of rough months for England await. They'll get demolished by India and Aus in the upcoming Indian test and ashes and in 2026 they won't bounce back that quickly.

But yes post 2027, they'll be back eventually. Their culture of attack attack attack won't go away.
 
mominsaigol said:
You won't return to pre 2015, but you will remain weak for a while now. Till 2027 excluding minnows, you will remain comfortably behind The rest of SENA and India.

A couple of rough months for England await. They'll get demolished by India and Aus in the upcoming Indian test and ashes and in 2026 they won't bounce back that quickly.

But yes post 2027, they'll be back eventually. Their culture of attack attack attack won't go away.
Click to expand...
One thing we can be sure of with Gorey

If they know something is wrong, they will act to fix it! I trust their process
 
daytrader said:
I think this selection and lineup was a conscious decision by McCullum and he's been adment that this is the only way to play. They've been gearing up for this since last year Ausrtalia series.

Should've picked Moeen bhai and Sam Curran as both of them have the ability to play at any position and situation. They could've provided this lineup with flexibility that they badly missed
Click to expand...
The difference between this squad and 2019 is that 2019 players weren't just reckless bashers.

Roy and bairstow were your bashers however root was an accumulator and Morgan + stokes could play according to the situation. They could accumulate but also access a 5th gear when needed and Butler was younger and fitter back then.

The current squad is a bunch of hacks playing out of order. Salt is fine but put of form however Jamie smith doesn't know how to bat at no 3, Root at no 4 goes against their whole bazzball/attacking cricket philosophy, and Brooks is no Morgan, He doesn't know how to play according to the situation, even in tests he just bashes.

People think 2019 England was simply playing reckless cricket and hence don't understand what went wrong in 2025, but they don't realise that 2019 England had batters who could play multiple roles.

Stokes could anchor when needed and so could Morgan. They had bashers as openers and finishers. The middle order was filled with accumulators who had a 5th gear except for root.
 
Rana said:
One thing we can be sure of with Gorey

If they know something is wrong, they will act to fix it! I trust their process
Click to expand...
They need to find someone like Morgan and Stokes. Aka moster batsmen but players who have a plan B incase early wickets fall.

Odi is not t20, You need to accumulate in certain situations.

That's why saim's 109 of 119 was a master class against sa. He started slow when 4 wickets fell early, rotated strike and once he was set in, despite the rr being 7.5, He hit a 6, then a other 6, and then another 4, ans brought the rr back down to 6.

Then he simply brought it down to 2.5 and got out when the game was won

However saim has proven that he can bash endlessly when theirs no pressure aka Australia and Zimbabwe of whom he destroyed into next week.

None of the current England batters except duckett know how to do that.

It's either 400+ or bust.

They badly need to learn from saim, Inglis etc on how to construct such innings.

You only need bashers at the top and bashers at the bottom in odi. No 3, no 4, no 5 need to batters who can wear multiple hats.

The issue with imam, Babar and rizwan is that their the opposite extreme. They don't know how to attack or even construct an innings.
 
Rana said:
InshaAllah the lions will roar again.

New faces will arrive, philosophy of all or nothing will not and should not change!

Never will we return to pre-2015
Click to expand...
Australia ODI model is the ideal not England brainless cricket .

Always respect the conditions than a time will come to smashed.

You're just comparing the wrong team .

:kp
 
Devadwal said:
Australia ODI model is the ideal not England brainless cricket .

Always respect the conditions than a time will come to smashed.

You're just comparing the wrong team .

:kp
Click to expand...
yeah today pitch was two paced , ideal strategy was to keep wickets in hand and go deep and hit in the last 10
I agree with you
 
mominsaigol said:
They need to find someone like Morgan and Stokes. Aka moster batsmen but players who have a plan B incase early wickets fall.

Odi is not t20, You need to accumulate in certain situations.

That's why saim's 109 of 119 was a master class against sa. He started slow when 4 wickets fell early, rotated strike and once he was set in, despite the rr being 7.5, He hit a 6, then a other 6, and then another 4, ans brought the rr back down to 6.

Then he simply brought it down to 2.5 and got out when the game was won

However saim has proven that he can bash endlessly when theirs no pressure aka Australia and Zimbabwe of whom he destroyed into next week.

None of the current England batters except duckett know how to do that.

It's either 400+ or bust.

They badly need to learn from saim, Inglis etc on how to construct such innings.

You only need bashers at the top and bashers at the bottom in odi. No 3, no 4, no 5 need to batters who can wear multiple hats.

The issue with imam, Babar and rizwan is that their the opposite extreme. They don't know how to attack or even construct an innings.
Click to expand...
its mostly a bust , 400 only happens in meaningless bilaterals with shipelt tipley bowling and niot with A grade bowling attack
England needs to come out of their fantasy world
 
with bavuma sitting out , this is ideal for stubbs to take time and step up to the occassion with him being the ideal candidate to replace RvD after CT 2025
 
Tristan Stubbs in ODIs

Bat 1st: 4 inns, 192 runs, 64.0 average, 110 SR, 1 fifty, 1 hundred

Bat 2nd: 4 inns, 57 runs, 19.0 average, 55 SR
 
Heinrich Klaasen in Asia in ODIs

Bat 1st: 11 inns, 590 runs, 65.56 average, 136 SR, 3 fifties, 1 hundred
Bat 2nd: 9 inns, 135 runs, 16.88 average, 91 SR
 
England's emphasis on a batting-heavy approach has weakened their bowling in the middle overs, and the impact is evident—they've averaged 93.00 in this phase during the tournament.

This is their second-worst figure in any series or tournament since records began, with the only worse performance being an average of 121.50 against the West Indies in November.
 
shaz619 said:
I don’t know why we are amusing ourselves over England’s struggles, does it make us feel better about the draconian cricket which Pakistan play? England have their problems yes, but they are much better placed than Pakistan to recover from them. It was not too long ago that they won the World T20 and they consistently do well in that format, and found to a way to end their terrible Test record under the past regime. I trust Baz and co to find an answer because they at least are aware of the answer to the examine question regarding what is needed for modern cricket, so it’s the execution which will take focus. They invest in the right players, don’t meddle in politics and even someone like Butler is not empowered enough to have the final say in things like who should be the England coach, not that he is selfish enough to cripple his country by interfering in matters like that. If I have a criticism of Butler it’s that he has been too selfless and willing to accommodate who or whatever to give them every chance to succeed despite being the franchise player. Hopefully he can take some time out and we give him a more defined role so he can start enjoying his cricket again.
Click to expand...
If only desi players had the same dignity to step down when they know they aren’t cut out to lead the team anymore

Fatty Rohit needs to learn from buttler
Same with Rizzu/babar
 
FearlessRoar said:
England's emphasis on a batting-heavy approach has weakened their bowling in the middle overs, and the impact is evident—they've averaged 93.00 in this phase during the tournament.

This is their second-worst figure in any series or tournament since records began, with the only worse performance being an average of 121.50 against the West Indies in November.
Click to expand...

Wow, they are worse than even Pakistani trundlers :inti
 
Looks like this match will be done in 30 overs

If only England applied Pakistan’s correct approach and scored a hundred runs more, they could have lost this game with a couple of overs to spare maybe
 
PSL/PCB committee to Ali Tareen:

“Ali, we are going to prize out Heinrich Klaasen with a bumper deal for PSL as a guaranteed direct signing, you can have him. Do you want to agree to direct signings?”

Ali Tareen: “Arey no Baba! I already got a wicket keeper yaaa! What is this direct signings?!”
 
Englan is getting phainta just because they are playing Brainless cricket by selecting the Tullebaaz player's

:kp
 
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