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South Africa [210/6] defeat New Zealand [207/7] by 4 wickets in the 1st ODI at Hamilton

A

Abdullah719

T20I Captain
Joined
Apr 16, 2013
Runs
44,826
New Zealand Squad
KS Williamson*, TA Boult, NT Broom, DG Brownlie, C de Grandhomme, LH Ferguson, MJ Guptill, MJ Henry, TWM Latham, JDS Neesham, L Ronchi†, MJ Santner, IS Sodhi, TG Southee, LRPL Taylor

South Africa Squad
AB de Villiers*, HM Amla, F Behardien, Q de Kock†, JP Duminy, F du Plessis, Imran Tahir, DA Miller, CH Morris, WD Parnell, D Paterson, AL Phehlukwayo, D Pretorius, K Rabada, T Shamsi
 
Don't bother staying up, the odds are this match will be abandoned.

A further 2 hrs will be needed once the covers are off and that's if there's no rain :facepalm:
 
Small grounds..34 overs match.. Must be eyeing for 250 total.
 
Thank goodness garbage Latham is out for 11 ball duck.
SAF shoulda kept him in there to soak up more dotballs.

Absolute TTF against decent attacks that's not Bangladesh or Sri Lanka etc
 
volcyz said:
Thank goodness garbage Latham is out for 11 ball duck.
SAF shoulda kept him in there to soak up more dotballs.

Absolute TTF against decent attacks that's not Bangladesh or Sri Lanka etc
Click to expand...

His record against SAF & IND is quite good actually, while surprisingly poor against Sri Lanka. But here, he is playing as WK, which is unexplainable.
 
volcyz said:
Thank goodness garbage Latham is out for 11 ball duck.
SAF shoulda kept him in there to soak up more dotballs.

Absolute TTF against decent attacks that's not Bangladesh or Sri Lanka etc
Click to expand...

Did well in India where some world class performers have failed in recent times.
 
Three certainties in life - death, taxes and Latham getting out lbw.
 
Morris all over the place..

4 wickets up front..

And then an excellent bowling figure of 5-0-24-4 turned into a horrid 7-0-62-4..
 
Aman said:
Don't bother staying up, the odds are this match will be abandoned.

A further 2 hrs will be needed once the covers are off and that's if there's no rain :facepalm:
Click to expand...

What is NZ's public opinion on Ross Taylor?
Is he a well liked character?
He never says anything controversial to the media as well, but I get these negative vibes. What's that about?
 
soso_killer said:
What is NZ's public opinion on Ross Taylor?
Is he a well liked character?
He never says anything controversial to the media as well, but I get these negative vibes. What's that about?
Click to expand...
Most of the comments I have seen on Taylor have been positive, seems like a well liked player tbh. A lot of Kiwi's were outraged he didn't play the T20 as the batting line up was essentially Kane and sloggers.

McCullum on the other hand has a lot more detractors.
 
Oh Brilliant match..

That was completely un-ABesque or perhaps Dhoni-esque..

Well played Andile too..
 
Since our consecutive streak started this our toughest since we came back to beat England three matches in row. The last 10 victories were a cake walk. So kudos to NZ for a great match,
 
Time to give 6 months holidays to Duminy and Behardien..Cant believe how can one have them at such a crucial 5th and 6th spot.

Bring Miller and someone else in their place.
 
Great match, SA batted really well to get the win at the end.

Look to have found a gem in Phehlukwayo.
 
Miller can't come back soon enough.
ag Here got!! we can't rid ourselves of JP & Berhadien soon enough
 
soso_killer said:
Miller can't come back soon enough.
ag Here got!! we can't rid ourselves of JP & Berhadien soon enough
Click to expand...

Isn't there any better option than those two in that lower middle order position?And Miller will be back I think in CT..
 
I don't think with Morris and Andile they will misa Abbott's bowling that much. This will look like a batting lineup that they had in early 00s if Miller finds a place, very good depth. I hope ab still sticks around for a bit as it's seemed like his head hasn't been in it since the 05 WC semi.
 
Phehlukwayo looks the the next Klusener. Decent bowler and a very good batsmen.

The Proteas need all-rounders
 
Ab Fan said:
Isn't there any better option than those two in that lower middle order position?And Miller will be back I think in CT..
Click to expand...

Rilley would have been a good bet followed by Miller.
We won't play two spinners all the time, so a hack like Parnell would be very useful at 9 than Shamsi.

With additions like Morris and Phehlukwayo down the order I would've backed SA to chase or post big totals with them two in the side. Possibly matching the strength the SA side had in the nineties but with more firepower upfront albeit with a weak bowling unit

Amla
QdK +
Faf
AB
Rilley
Miller
Morris
Phehlukwayo
Parnell
Rabada
Tahir

It's a batting era it doesn't matter if we have Parnell or Morkel @9 they'll both go for runs. So I might as well beef up the batting. Unless we find an exceptional bowler, especially for the death overs. A guy in the mold of Starc or Faulkner.

Unfortunately we have to stick with one of JP or Berhadien in the side.
 
Klusener is one of the iconic images of my childhood cricket memories. Fell in love with SA just coz of him ,Donald and Pollock. Real fighting cricketers and unlike fake 720° statistic players
 
Kaiser_Soze said:
Klusener is one of the iconic images of my childhood cricket memories. Fell in love with SA just coz of him ,Donald and Pollock. Real fighting cricketers and unlike fake 720° statistic players
Click to expand...

Oh plz..Donald and Pollock have history of some great chokes in World Cups.
 
Phehlukwayo has nerves of steel. He's a see the ball hit the ball kind of batsmen. He's going to win a lot of games batting at 8 for us.
 
soso_killer said:
Rilley would have been a good bet followed by Miller.
We won't play two spinners all the time, so a hack like Parnell would be very useful at 9 than Shamsi.

With additions like Morris and Phehlukwayo down the order I would've backed SA to chase or post big totals with them two in the side. Possibly matching the strength the SA side had in the nineties but with more firepower upfront albeit with a weak bowling unit

Amla
QdK +
Faf
AB
Rilley
Miller
Morris
Phehlukwayo
Parnell
Rabada
Tahir

It's a batting era it doesn't matter if we have Parnell or Morkel @9 they'll both go for runs. So I might as well beef up the batting. Unless we find an exceptional bowler, especially for the death overs. A guy in the mold of Starc or Faulkner.

Unfortunately we have to stick with one of JP or Berhadien in the side.
Click to expand...

Morris and Phehlukwayo are good options for the 7 and 8 position who are capable of finishing off games but still you need to have really valuable players at 5 and 6 who have the ability to finish off a chase from a good position and not get dismantled under chasing pressure.

What about Dean Elgar? Is there any chance of him in top 6.He can play the sixth bowling option quite like Duminy who doesn't bowl much these days either.
 
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=132954]Aman[/MENTION] [MENTION=132982]soso_killer[/MENTION] [MENTION=141114]Hasan123[/MENTION] [MENTION=134334]Ozymandiasza[/MENTION]

You have to respect this knock. What say fellas?

Soaked in pressure and closed out the game.

He has to do more in ICC tourneys under pressure but this was a quality one.
 
Seems like it was a good game, didn't think it was while looking at the scorecard. Where can I find highlights??
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=132954]Aman[/MENTION] [MENTION=132982]soso_killer[/MENTION] [MENTION=141114]Hasan123[/MENTION] [MENTION=134334]Ozymandiasza[/MENTION]

You have to respect this knock. What say fellas?

Soaked in pressure and closed out the game.

He has to do more in ICC tourneys under pressure but this was a quality one.
Click to expand...


Haven't watched the highlights yet but looks like a quality knock. South Africa and AB seem on a mission in odis these days.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=132954]Aman[/MENTION] [MENTION=132982]soso_killer[/MENTION] [MENTION=141114]Hasan123[/MENTION] [MENTION=134334]Ozymandiasza[/MENTION]

You have to respect this knock. What say fellas?

Soaked in pressure and closed out the game.

He has to do more in ICC tourneys under pressure but this was a quality one.
Click to expand...

Closed out the game? Yes - in literal sense. NO - in cricketing analogy. Was not able to connect a single boundary in the last 4-5 overs when it was really needed - and he tried to. Would in all probability have choked if not for Phelukwayo's cameo, who hit ALL the important boundaries at the crunch time. AB missed more than he connected.

True Story.
 
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Princejain191 said:
Closed out the game? Yes - in literal sense. NO - in cricketing analogy. Was not able to connect a single boundary in the last 4-5 overs when it was really needed - and he tried to. Would in all probability have choked if not for Phelukwayo's cameo, who hit ALL the important boundaries at the crunch time. AB missed more than he connected.

True Story.
Click to expand...

Second fiddle towards the end but he did stay on till the end and got the win.

From 117 he took the team to the point where the other guy could smash and do it.

ABD is not a great finisher is well established. But with him coming at 4 or even 3, SA will benefit more cos he can score a lot of runs and make it count. ABD's criticism was he throws away his wicket at the wrong time which he didn't do this time.
 
AB is an ATG ODI bat, easily in the top 5 of all time. Has a phenomenol record in successful chase.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Second fiddle towards the end but he did stay on till the end and got the win.

From 117 he took the team to the point where the other guy could smash and do it.

ABD is not a great finisher is well established. But with him coming at 4 or even 3, SA will benefit more cos he can score a lot of runs and make it count. ABD's criticism was he throws away his wicket at the wrong time which he didn't do this time.
Click to expand...

My point was that this knock was everything off the shelf for which he has been criticized. All the vulnerabilities that creep up in his game towards the end were still there, the only difference was that there was a lower-order batsman to rescue them from the same position - which again probably was the key reason he didn't throw it away in this game.

Now for any decent batsman, I would call this a "quality" knock but for someone regarded as an ATG in the format and is among most peoples top five or three, this is too big a frailty to be overlooked.

I respect the guy and am genuinely an admirer but beneath all the flamboyance and the amazing stats, there is just that something that makes me think twice before giving him the stature that others so easily give.

P.S. - He has apparently batted at no. 4 for 116 off the 202 innings he has played in odis - so nothing SA-"will"-benefit-more about it. :abdv
 
Princejain191 said:
My point was that this knock was everything off the shelf for which he has been criticized. All the vulnerabilities that creep up in his game towards the end were still there, the only difference was that there was a lower-order batsman to rescue them from the same position - which again probably was the key reason he didn't throw it away in this game.

Now for any decent batsman, I would call this a "quality" knock but for someone regarded as an ATG in the format and is among most peoples top five or three, this is too big a frailty to be overlooked.

I respect the guy and am genuinely an admirer but beneath all the flamboyance and the amazing stats, there is just that something that makes me think twice before giving him the stature that others so easily give.

P.S. - He has apparently batted at no. 4 for 116 off the 202 innings he has played in odis - so nothing SA-"will"-benefit-more about it. :abdv
Click to expand...

Nah....disagree mate.

When he comes up the order, he doesn't have to finish the games himself. His runs will be worth more.

Tendulkar if he was in the middle order would have just been a good ODI bat. As an opener, he was legendary beyond all measures.

ABD as a finisher is meh. But at number 4 or preferably number 3, he could potentially perform better. Remains to be seen.

As for number 4 slot and the number of times he has played in it, you are using stats to make a wrong conclusion. In the past, he used to come up the order at 4 as and when needed....more in situations where he could smash and make quick runs once the platform is set.

Now he comes up at 4 all the time. If he goes back to 5, then we can criticize him.
 
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sensible-indian-fan said:
Nah....disagree mate.

When he comes up the order, he doesn't have to finish the games himself. His runs will be worth more.
Click to expand...

Well, a lot of posters here want AB to come up the order. The issue with that is if AB comes up the order at 3,then who will finish off the game.Yes, if he comes at 3 he doesn't have to finish the games himself.But then who would do the job of closing off games. The likes of Duminy and Behardien are meh. David Miller is good when you have to score quickfire runs. Morris and Andile can score 20s-30s but will one back them to finish off if a collapse is occuring?

Yes, AB himself isnt a great finisher. But then there isn't any one who is a great finisher in that team either.There is no Klusenar there.

And the top three is anyways very strong. So, I am just not getting the idea of AB coming up the order.

You come up the order when top is weak. Here, the team is top heavy while you have the likes of JP and Behardien lower down.

AB with his experience and skill set is still a better bet than these guys to close off games.So why would you have him at no.3 where Faf is as calm as ever and the openers are as consistent as anyone in the world?
 
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Ab Fan said:
Well, a lot of posters here want AB to come up the order. The issue with that is if AB comes up the order at 3,then who will finish off the game.Yes, if he comes at 3 he doesn't have to finish the games himself.But then who would do the job of closing off games. The likes of Duminy and Behardien are meh. David Miller is good when you have to score quickfire runs. Morris and Andile can score 20s-30s but will one back them to finish off if a collapse is occuring?

Yes, AB himself isnt a great finisher. But then there isn't any one who is a great finisher in that team either.There is no Klusenar there.

And the top three is anyways very strong. So, I am just not getting the idea of AB coming up the order.

You come up the order when top is weak. Here, the team is top heavy while you have the likes of JP and Behardien lower down.

AB with his experience and skill set is still a better bet than these guys to close off games.So why would you have him at no.3 where Faf is as calm as ever and the openers are as consistent as anyone in the world?
Click to expand...

You have to look at it from a different angle.

ABD is not that good a finisher to close out pressure games.

But he is that good a bat to score WAY MORE RUNS up the order so that by the time he gets out, the run rate will be manageable and the rest can score and get the wins.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
You have to look at it from a different angle.

ABD is not that good a finisher to close out pressure games.

But he is that good a bat to score WAY MORE RUNS up the order so that by the time he gets out, the run rate will be manageable and the rest can score and get the wins.
Click to expand...

Not necessary. SA have been part of many games where they collapsed from a very strong position to nowhere near the target.

In the very last game, I dont think if AB wouldnt have stayed till last SA would have won. AB's presence allowed Morris and Andile to take that extra risk and win the game.

AB isn't a great finisher but his experience and skill set makes him a better bet than JP or Behardien.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
You have to look at it from a different angle.

ABD is not that good a finisher to close out pressure games.

But he is that good a bat to score WAY MORE RUNS up the order so that by the time he gets out, the run rate will be manageable and the rest can score and get the wins.
Click to expand...

He is the most senior guy in the team . Why is he hiding down the order??
 
Ab Fan said:
Not necessary. SA have been part of many games where they collapsed from a very strong position to nowhere near the target.

In the very last game, I dont think if AB wouldnt have stayed till last SA would have won. AB's presence allowed Morris and Andile to take that extra risk and win the game.

AB isn't a great finisher but his experience and skill set makes him a better bet than JP or Behardien.
Click to expand...

Collapsing from a strong position to near the target is a risk they have to take.

Plus if you have a consistent bat up the order who can score lots of runs fast, then it makes the whole team's job easier. ABD up the order can make things MORE easier for the lower order THAN some XYZ bat can for ABD in the lower order.

Just because ABD bats at number 4 does not mean he will get out before the end every game. He will stay with the lower order in some games and he does have to improve in playing under pressure in those instances.

Princejain has raised a few very good points about ABD at the death in that game.

Take the WC 2015 SF example itself.

You yourself said ABD batted at 130 SR before the wild slogging happened by Miller (at which point ABD faced only 4-5 balls). Miller can slog as fast as ABD when everything is set BUT he cannot play the ABD knock at 130 SR with his consistency.

There are several ways to approach the game:

You can go the Kohli-Dhoni route and finish off games yourself....

OR you can go for a top heavy approach to score lots faster and let the rest knock over the rest of the runs.

There is a bit of risk in every strategy but you gotta back your strengths and do what is likely to get you the best results.
 
Ab Fan said:
Would you have Faf playing behind AB?And what would be your lineup?
Click to expand...

Not that bad an idea.

Number 3 is even better for ABD.

Faf can bat at 4.

I would let SA do the permutation and combinations to see which combo works best but ABD should bat atleast at 4.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Nah....disagree mate.

When he comes up the order, he doesn't have to finish the games himself. His runs will be worth more.

Tendulkar if he was in the middle order would have just been a good ODI bat. As an opener, he was legendary beyond all measures.

ABD as a finisher is meh. But at number 4 or preferably number 3, he could potentially perform better. Remains to be seen.

As for number 4 slot and the number of times he has played in it, you are using stats to make a wrong conclusion. In the past, he used to come up the order at 4 as and when needed....more in situations where he could smash and make quick runs once the platform is set.

Now he comes up at 4 all the time. If he goes back to 5, then we can criticize him.
Click to expand...

Let's agree to disagree then, I guess. Can't argue with anything that 'remains to be seen'.

And I do think no. 4 is ideal for him. Enough time to get into the groove and certainly enough to turn the tables but again, for a no. 4 - he needs much better finishing abilities under pressure, you can't just take your team down to the end and falter like Sachin used to. Take the bull by the horns and also finish the games like Virat usually does.

Ab Fan said:
Not necessary. SA have been part of many games where they collapsed from a very strong position to nowhere near the target.

In the very last game, I dont think if AB wouldnt have stayed till last SA would have won. AB's presence allowed Morris and Andile to take that extra risk and win the game.

AB isn't a great finisher but his experience and skill set makes him a better bet than JP or Behardien.
Click to expand...

I think Morris and Andile have helped SA win Odis from much tougher positions recently without the experience of AB at the other end. And I never buy how the lesser batsmen should take the extra risk when the batsman at the other end is more capable.

Also pretty sure experience and skill set are not the only reasons why AB is a better bet than Duminy and Behardien.
 
Princejain191 said:
Let's agree to disagree then, I guess. Can't argue with anything that 'remains to be seen'.

And I do think no. 4 is ideal for him. Enough time to get into the groove and certainly enough to turn the tables but again, for a no. 4 - he needs much better finishing abilities under pressure, you can't just take your team down to the end and falter like Sachin used to. Take the bull by the horns and also finish the games like Virat usually does.



I think Morris and Andile have helped SA win Odis from much tougher positions recently without the experience of AB at the other end. And I never buy how the lesser batsmen should take the extra risk when the batsman at the other end is more capable.

Also pretty sure experience and skill set are not the only reasons why AB is a better bet than Duminy and Behardien.
Click to expand...

As far as finishing off games is concerned, AB is not so great as per his level in that prospect but he is still a better bet than JP/Behardien/Miller because he has bigger skill set and more experience of handling those situations than those three.

And I never said the lesser batsmen should take extra risk but it does help when you have a world class batsmen on other end.There is lesser pressure on you as you aren't the one to get blame and hence you can afford to take extra risk.

As far as AB is concerned, the thing he was lacking is patience in these situations which he showed in the last game and hence we shouldn't doubt his capability of not taking the initiative. That's not what was under question but his lack of patience which was in question and he showed that in last game. He needs to show up more of that.
 
Princejain191 said:
Let's agree to disagree then, I guess. Can't argue with anything that 'remains to be seen'.

And I do think no. 4 is ideal for him. Enough time to get into the groove and certainly enough to turn the tables but again, for a no. 4 - he needs much better finishing abilities under pressure, you can't just take your team down to the end and falter like Sachin used to. Take the bull by the horns and also finish the games like Virat usually does.



I think Morris and Andile have helped SA win Odis from much tougher positions recently without the experience of AB at the other end. And I never buy how the lesser batsmen should take the extra risk when the batsman at the other end is more capable.

Also pretty sure experience and skill set are not the only reasons why AB is a better bet than Duminy and Behardien.
Click to expand...

I never rated ABD based on what he could or would do in the future.

I am talking about what ABD is right now.

Right now he is an ATG who has freakish stats and good performances in all countries and in WCs. Kohli is an ATG too even though he hasn't yet clicked in a WC. Maybe you disagree with the ATG tag which is fair enough but another debate.

However to be better than the top 3 in ODIs, ABD needs to do more in important games. Right now, its hard to say where he is amongst ODI greats.
 
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sensible-indian-fan said:
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=132954]Aman[/MENTION] [MENTION=132982]soso_killer[/MENTION] [MENTION=141114]Hasan123[/MENTION] [MENTION=134334]Ozymandiasza[/MENTION]

You have to respect this knock. What say fellas?

Soaked in pressure and closed out the game.

He has to do more in ICC tourneys under pressure but this was a quality one.
Click to expand...
AB held an end, it was Phehlukwayo who won them the match.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] [MENTION=132954]Aman[/MENTION] [MENTION=132982]soso_killer[/MENTION] [MENTION=141114]Hasan123[/MENTION] [MENTION=134334]Ozymandiasza[/MENTION]

You have to respect this knock. What say fellas?

Soaked in pressure and closed out the game.

He has to do more in ICC tourneys under pressure but this was a quality one.
Click to expand...

He kept a cool head. I have to admit, he looked a bit jumpy at times, then again, he always looks jumpy. But AB just reaffirmed something we already know: he's an ODI ATG.

I'm most impressed for Andile though. This is the second time he's done this and I'm tempted to label him better than Morris.
 
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