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Sri Lanka vs Pakistan | 1st Test | Galle | June 17-21 | Day 3

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Pathetic start and once again our openers exposed against the moving ball :facepalm:

We Are in a massive hole in this match already now!
 
The same old story, and as per "shezyy is good in test notion goes" he is poor man's hafeez, because he can't bowl and can't score as fast as hafeez even on roads, so that says enough about him, we have one great middle order, just need to kick out these wannabes and bring in Babar Azam as opener push azhar as opener and slot in Harris at 3, and both babar and harris can take as many wickets if not more as hafeez, so there goes the theory that he is must for his bowling. Do this and our batting will held it's own even on tough away tours, but we have to do this in our next two test series in UAE to give enough exposure and confidence to both new guns, and with amir and with the batting i suggested, and with rahat in place of junaid useless. Our bowling will be fine on away tours, how hard it is for management to think as i am thinking.
 
Adnan Siddiqui said:
Why Pakistan seamer cannot move new ball? This movement is natural. [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]
Click to expand...

One of the biggest mysteries for me, not from a technical point of view but the fact that what is the job of Waqar and other domestic bowling coaches, who cannot fix something so simple.

Even club level junior cricketers in other countries can swing the ball more than our seamers, and people who blame the conditions etc. need to wake up and realize that is not the case.

Since Amir and Asif got suspended, our pacers have been terrible at using the new ball. They always get 'outswunged' by the opposition seamers, and none more so than Junaid.

Worst new ball bowler Pakistan has produced for a long, long time. Even Gul in his youth was able to do better, even though he wasn't much of a new ball bowler either.

We badly need Amir and Asif back for the England tour next season, the likes of Junaid will continue to waste the Dukes ball and England will make merry of our bowling.
 
Zeshan547 said:
The same old story, and as per "shezyy is good in test notion goes" he is poor man's hafeez, because he can't bowl and can't score as fast as hafeez even on roads, so that says enough about him, we have one great middle order, just need to kick out these wannabes and bring in Babar Azam as opener push azhar as opener and slot in Harris at 3, and both babar and harris can take as many wickets if not more as hafeez, so there goes the theory that he is must for his bowling. Do this and our batting will held it's own even on tough away tours, but we have to do this in our next two test series in UAE to give enough exposure and confidence to both new guns, and with amir and with the batting i suggested, and with rahat in place of junaid useless. Our bowling will be fine on away tours, how hard it is for management to think as i am thinking.
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Don't understand why the management don't realise that Azhar Ali is the best negotiator of the new ball in Pakistan. He should be opening. He'll maximise his potential opening, and will also optimise the middle order, and shield them from the new ball.

Azhar struggles when he has to play spin up front, but is fine when he plays spin once set, opening is logical for him.
 
2 wickets down early and herath on early tought times for pakistan!
 
Shehzad is as much of a Test opener as Hafeez is, its a myth that he is much better or will do well overseas.

Both can score on flat decks, and both are not capable against movement. Only difference is, Hafeez scores at a very good rate, while Shehzad does his usual tuk tuk. Both have their pros and cons in Test cricket, depending on the situation.
 
Mamoon said:
One of the biggest mysteries for me, not from a technical point of view but the fact that what is the job of Waqar and other domestic bowling coaches, who cannot fix something so simple.

Even club level junior cricketers in other countries can swing the ball more than our seamers, and people who blame the conditions etc. need to wake up and realize that is not the case.

Since Amir and Asif got suspended, our pacers have been terrible at using the new ball. They always get 'outswunged' by the opposition seamers, and none more so than Junaid.

Worst new ball bowler Pakistan has produced for a long, long time. Even Gul in his youth was able to do better, even though he wasn't much of a new ball bowler either.

We badly need Amir and Asif back for the England tour next season, the likes of Junaid will continue to waste the Dukes ball and England will make merry of our bowling.
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Spot on. Though I have little hope of Asif returning, I can see Amir back. I'm hoping to see Amir, Rahat, and Wahab in England. Maybe Ehsan as 4th seamer.

Rahat may not be the smartest bowler, but he has definitely got talent. He makes use of the new ball, and has got a good skill set, similar to Amir. Perhaps having a similar but smarter bowler in Amir to partner him will do him some good?
 
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Azhar is one of the best Test opener in the game, who is not opening for a team that has a pool of mediocre openers. Quite ironic.

I'm calling Azhar one of the best because his performances won't be affected if he starts to open, since he is the best against the new ball in Pakistan and is out at the middle in the first 10-15 overs most of the time anyway, and he will continue to average around 45 at that position against all oppositions and most conditions, something Hafeez and Shehzad are not capable of doing so.
 
Both of these guys will come good in any of the remaining innings on this tour, but it doesn't solve the fundamental problem. Hafeez is no good for tests. And Ahmed Shehzad just hasn't played enough test cricket in difficult conditions.
Whereas for Hafeez, I think everyone knows that he is paying at his peak right now: he cannot do any better. For Shehzad we will know soon enough.
 
Two wickets down but no need to panic! Here comes the Yorkshireman at number 4!
 
hussain.r97 said:
Spot on. Though I have little hope of Asif returning, I can see Amir back. I'm hoping to see Amir, Rahat, and Wahab in England. Maybe Ehsan as 4th seamer.

Rahat may not be the smartest bowler, but he has definitely got talent. He makes use if the new ball, and has got a good skill set. Perhaps having a similar but smarter bowler in Amir to partner him will do him some good?
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it's no coincidence that the bowlers who have done well for Pakistan are the ones who get the release of the ball right naturally: Aamir, Rahat, Asif.
 
hussain.r97 said:
Spot on. Though I have little hope of Asif returning, I can see Amir back. I'm hoping to see Amir, Rahat, and Wahab in England. Maybe Ehsan as 4th seamer.

Rahat may not be the smartest bowler, but he has definitely got talent. He makes use if the new ball, and has got a good skill set. Perhaps having a similar but smarter bowler in Amir to partner him will do him some good?
Click to expand...

The thing with Rahat is that although he does not have enough bowling intelligence to succeed at this level beyond a certain point, he is still capable of producing some magic, and sometimes that's enough in Test cricket, which is why I would definitely keep him at the expense of Junaid.

Yeah that'd be my attack as well, and it would be wonderful if we could get Asif back as well, but yeah chances are bleak.
 
Mamoon said:
Shehzad is as much of a Test opener as Hafeez is, its a myth that he is much better or will do well overseas.

Both can score on flat decks, and both are not capable against movement. Only difference is, Hafeez scores at a very good rate, while Shehzad does his usual tuk tuk. Both have their pros and cons in Test cricket, depending on the situation.
Click to expand...

If the end objective is a matchwinning team in all conditions, neither option present an pro's at the moment.
 
hussain.r97 said:
Spot on. Though I have little hope of Asif returning, I can see Amir back. I'm hoping to see Amir, Rahat, and Wahab in England. Maybe Ehsan as 4th seamer.

Rahat may not be the smartest bowler, but he has definitely got talent. He makes use of the new ball, and has got a good skill set, similar to Amir. Perhaps having a similar but smarter bowler in Amir to partner him will do him some good?
Click to expand...

Rahat swings both the new and the old ball and was doing it even in the UAE tests last year. Both he and adil have a heigher ceiling than Junaid despite the fact that neither are proven test bowlers yet.
 
Ok, let me blaspheme, whatever yk achieves on this tour has no bearing on how he will go vs England or australia while touring away
 
hussain.r97 said:
Spot on. Though I have little hope of Asif returning, I can see Amir back. I'm hoping to see Amir, Rahat, and Wahab in England. Maybe Ehsan as 4th seamer.

Rahat may not be the smartest bowler, but he has definitely got talent. He makes use of the new ball, and has got a good skill set, similar to Amir. Perhaps having a similar but smarter bowler in Amir to partner him will do him some good?
Click to expand...

Ehsan Adil is also good with the new ball. Can swing it both ways.
 
Pete Rose said:
Ok, let me blaspheme, whatever yk achieves on this tour has no bearing on how he will go vs England or australia while touring away
Click to expand...

Agree with this, both Younis and Misbah will be liabilities next year in England, Australia and New Zealand.
 
hussain.r97 said:
Spot on. Though I have little hope of Asif returning, I can see Amir back. I'm hoping to see Amir, Rahat, and Wahab in England. Maybe Ehsan as 4th seamer.

Rahat may not be the smartest bowler, but he has definitely got talent. He makes use of the new ball, and has got a good skill set, similar to Amir. Perhaps having a similar but smarter bowler in Amir to partner him will do him some good?
Click to expand...

Also add Sohail Khan to it. He is a terrific new ball bowler. Can swing it both ways with good control. As he showed it in the WC 15.
 
hussain.r97 said:
Spot on. Though I have little hope of Asif returning, I can see Amir back. I'm hoping to see Amir, Rahat, and Wahab in England. Maybe Ehsan as 4th seamer.

Rahat may not be the smartest bowler, but he has definitely got talent. He makes use of the new ball, and has got a good skill set, similar to Amir. Perhaps having a similar but smarter bowler in Amir to partner him will do him some good?
Click to expand...

I personally liked our WC attack a lot. It had all the ingredients. Hopefully we can see all together again.
 
Mamoon said:
Agree with this, both Younis and Misbah will be liabilities next year in England, Australia and New Zealand.
Click to expand...

I think Misbah has the dignity to bow out after this year.Yk will be encouraged to go on because he will get a century in the first test against England when they tour UAE and will need an innings to adjust their bowling plans.
 
What irks me about this team mgmt is that after 3 innings they decided Sami Aslam is not worth it

But even after multiple failures by Hafeez they some how think he will come good

This experience mantra has run our ODI team down to the ground it's high team we get rid of experienced undeserving players and give chances to young deserving players

But with Misbah and Waqar at the helm I won't be surprised seeing Hafeez opening for us in Tests in overseas tours in 2016
 
Pete Rose said:
I think Misbah has the dignity to bow out after this year.Yk will be encouraged to go on because he will get a century in the first test against England when they tour UAE and will need an innings to adjust their bowling plans.
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I think Younis' Test career will end in ugly fashion like his ODI career, because he does not know when to quit.

Will probably be forced out of the team eventually.
 
Pete Rose said:
Ok, let me blaspheme, whatever yk achieves on this tour has no bearing on how he will go vs England or australia while touring away
Click to expand...

Mamoon said:
Agree with this, both Younis and Misbah will be liabilities next year in England, Australia and New Zealand.
Click to expand...
The problem is that our management lack the vision and guts to drop them and pick Haris and Babar to replace them.

If we get even a small tinge of green, Misbah and YK won't survive due to their reflexes going due to their age. It's a downward spiral for them from now on. Misbah wouldn't have survived anyway due to poor technique against lateral movement.
 
Sarfraz is in poor form as well, hope he comes good today.

Onus is on Younis, Misbah and Shafiq to save this Test. One year on, nothing has changed.
 
Mamoon said:
Azhar is one of the best Test opener in the game, who is not opening for a team that has a pool of mediocre openers. Quite ironic.

I'm calling Azhar one of the best because his performances won't be affected if he starts to open, since he is the best against the new ball in Pakistan and is out at the middle in the first 10-15 overs most of the time anyway, and he will continue to average around 45 at that position against all oppositions and most conditions, something Hafeez and Shehzad are not capable of doing so.
Click to expand...

Azhar has not been in touch at the moment IMO he survived against BD because of dropped catch and a wicket of No ball otherwise he looked very uncomfortable at the start of the innings.
 
Once I read the sri lankan batsmen were struggling I thought bye bye pakistani top order. No surprises.
 
zabalestmsm said:
I personally liked our WC attack a lot. It had all the ingredients. Hopefully we can see all together again.
Click to expand...

I loved it too. The thing with it is that we had little spin to work with, so we were forced to attack, and attack, and attack!

However this wouldn't work in SC conditions, especially with the state of our bowling department.
 
hussain.r97 said:
I loved it too. The thing with it is that we had little spin to work with, so we were forced to attack, and attack, and attack!

However this wouldn't work in SC conditions, especially with the state of our bowling department.
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Well our WC attack had all the ingredients so i wouldn't be surprised if they click in SC as well. Add Amir to it as well in the future. It will be a good attack.
 
Cricket lover 27 said:
Azhar has not been in touch at the moment IMO he survived against BD because of dropped catch and a wicket of No ball otherwise he looked very uncomfortable at the start of the innings.
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I think he has been trying to score a little quicker in Tests these days.
 
hussain.r97 said:
The problem is that our management lack the vision and guts to drop them and pick Haris and Babar to replace them.

If we get even a small tinge of green, Misbah and YK won't survive due to their reflexes going due to their age. It's a downward spiral for them from now on. Misbah wouldn't have survived anyway due to poor technique against lateral movement.
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I put out a thread about this a couple of months ago. If Pakistan's objective is to win a test series in Australia next year they need to fix a few things in the batting line up: retire misbah, yk, and hafeez from tests, and to give their replacements enough time to settle in to test cricket. Sadly for Pakistan cricket, they will wait till the 2016 series against England to discover what we already know about these players. By the time PCB sees the light, their next tour will be nz followed by Australia.
 
This team is good enough to score 400 every time they bat . the only thing stopping them are the useless openers.

Azhar should open and haris should be brought in. As a number 3. It would make a world of difference.
 
Herath is the best spinner in the world, but no other team craps its pants against him like we do.

Hope Sarfraz takes him on again, although the situation doesn't call for it. It's all about survival now.
 
lot of chaps talking about aussie and england next year. personally I would rather we worry about the here and now. If we're not careful we could lose this match in two days!!
 
the Great Khan said:
lot of chaps talking about aussie and england next year. personally I would rather we worry about the here and now. If we're not careful we could lose this match in two days!!
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If the 'here and now' can't win it for you against Sri Lanka, they sure as hell will do nothing when play a stronger team abroad
 
These two (especially Misbah) are the ideal batsmen for a bowler like Herath. They don't rotate the strike and allow him to settle down.
 
Pete Rose said:
These two (especially Misbah) are the ideal batsmen for a bowler like Herath. They don't rotate the strike and allow him to settle down.
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lol our openers got out for single digits and so did azhar who despite being a great batsman finds herath unplayable and you have the audacity to blame these 2 for not being aggressive enough. ONE small mistake will make either one lose their wicket. Let them get set first and then they can start "rotating the strike"
 
Pete Rose said:
These two (especially Misbah) are the ideal batsmen for a bowler like Herath. They don't rotate the strike and allow him to settle down.
Click to expand...
Herath doesn't need to "settle down", didn't you see that he was in rhythm right away
 
More dark days coming after the retirement of Misbah and Younis. We may loose test status when they will be gone. Apart from These two and Azhar we do not have any quality batsmen in even our domestic system. Bowlers are worse apart from Wahab. Players like Junaid, Hafeez as a batsman, Selfie are not even good enough to be Afghanistan ODI team. Agree with Mamoon "Pakistan team is finished".
 
the Great Khan said:
lot of chaps talking about aussie and england next year. personally I would rather we worry about the here and now. If we're not careful we could lose this match in two days!!
Click to expand...

This. We (the fans) always focus too much on plans to win away in Australia/SA/England which lets face it we are nowhere near ready for. We haven't even won a test in SL since 2006 and we pretty much visit annually so should in theory be acclimatized to the conditions.
 
Frankly I don't get the hate for Younis and Misbah in this thread after the top order gets out for practically nothing again. At this rate a 45 year old Younis and a 50 year old Misbah will still be our best test bats (EVEN if they do nothing outside Asia). The rest of our top 6 barring Azhar have practically done nothing even in Asia. Even Azhar took years to develop to a decent test batsman. We need to fill 3 other top 6 slots before we worry about Younis & Misbah.
 
AJK said:
This. We (the fans) always focus too much on plans to win away in Australia/SA/England which lets face it we are nowhere near ready for. We haven't even won a test in SL since 2006 and we pretty much visit annually so should in theory be acclimatized to the conditions.
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This a strange post but I will attempt to decipher it: let's not focus on the future because our present is not good.
 
Shafi said:
More dark days coming after the retirement of Misbah and Younis. We may loose test status when they will be gone. Apart from These two and Azhar we do not have any quality batsmen in even our domestic system. Bowlers are worse apart from Wahab. Players like Junaid, Hafeez as a batsman, Selfie are not even good enough to be Afghanistan ODI team. Agree with Mamoon "Pakistan team is finished".
Click to expand...

Future is bleak indeed but I think our middle-order in Tests will probably be the only decent aspect of our team even after the retirement of Younis and Misbah.

Azhar, Asad, Haris, Babar etc. will do well, it is the bowling which is utter rubbish.

Safe to say, 5th-6th ranking is what we are looking at for the next few years. It is a joke to see us ranked 3rd from time to time.
 
Mamoon said:
Azhar is one of the best Test opener in the game, who is not opening for a team that has a pool of mediocre openers. Quite ironic.

I'm calling Azhar one of the best because his performances won't be affected if he starts to open, since he is the best against the new ball in Pakistan and is out at the middle in the first 10-15 overs most of the time anyway, and he will continue to average around 45 at that position against all oppositions and most conditions, something Hafeez and Shehzad are not capable of doing so.
Click to expand...

Couple of simple moves would improve this side massively and prepare them for the overseas tests.

Drop Shehzad and Hafeez. Move Azhar to open, Babar the other opener. Haris at 3.
 
Need another 59 runs to avoid follow on. This match will finish tomorrow before tea
 
Mamoon said:
Future is bleak indeed but I think our middle-order in Tests will probably be the only decent aspect of our team even after the retirement of Younis and Misbah.

Azhar, Asad, Haris, Babar etc. will do well, it is the bowling which is utter rubbish.

Safe to say, 5th-6th ranking is what we are looking at for the next few years. It is a joke to see us ranked 3rd from time to time.
Click to expand...

We are not good enough to beat 1. Australia, 2. South Africa, 3. India 4. New Zealand, 5. Sri Lanka and 6. England. WI, Bangladesh have better batting and fast bowlers than us. Only Zimbabwe is equal quality if you compare our batting/bowling/fielding with them.
 
Neferpitou said:
Couple of simple moves would improve this side massively and prepare them for the overseas tests.

Drop Shehzad and Hafeez. Move Azhar to open, Babar the other opener. Haris at 3.
Click to expand...

exactly what i said in earlier post, but don't when our management will realize this, by the time they realize this it will be too late as always, these mormons in pcb never learn.
 
Pretty much need big scores from our two main batsmen if we are to get close to SL 300 total here.
 
Pete Rose said:
This a strange post but I will attempt to decipher it: let's not focus on the future because our present is not good.
Click to expand...

Well you cant win a test in Australia whilst playing in Sri Lanka. The point is we come to Sri Lanka every year thus in theory should be able to handle these conditions yet we lose every time but our fans don't care because 'Its only Sri Lanka'. On the other hand we visit Australia once every 5 years yet our fans expect that by replacing 2 batsmen (who are still the best we've got in tests) we can somehow win (which we couldn't even do with our ATG batting line ups).
 
Great attacking bowling from SL this morning. Really have pinned us back and are the side in charge now.

If Pakistan can get close to 250 or even stay as close to the SL 2st innings total, that'll be an achievement.
 
AJK said:
Well you cant win a test in Australia whilst playing in Sri Lanka. The point is we come to Sri Lanka every year thus in theory should be able to handle these conditions yet we lose every time but our fans don't care because 'Its only Sri Lanka'. On the other hand we visit Australia once every 5 years yet our fans expect that by replacing 2 batsmen (who are still the best we've got in tests) we can somehow win (which we couldn't even do with our ATG batting line ups).
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I can't speak for the folks who don't care if we lose to Sri Lanka. I find it incredibly shortsighted to not assess every performance between now and December 2016 as how it builds towards a more effective team.
I mean do we really need to be considered astute followers of the game for knowing that Hafeez is a rubbish batsman. It is a reality that Misbah, Yk, Hafeez (I apologize to Misbah and Yk for mentioning them in the same group as Hafeez) will need to go by the end of this year, because that's how professional sports works: you don't get to play forever.
And it doesn't matter how many young batsmen fail between now and the end of 2016. The answer will never be to take two 40 year old guys to tour.
 
Sherlock said:
Shafiq is good in Tests too. Azhar Ali looked clueless today but overall is also reliable. Hafeez, the less said the better.
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overall Azhar Ali is a solid player but dont know what happened to him today. but our top order especially opening is disaster .
 
Hafeez couldnt score in the practice match in both innings even against their club level bowlers, but shan masood scored in one inns and shehzad scored in the 1st inns... the mgmt needs to be blamed for selecting hafeez again and again as a test opener even after failures after failures... both these players fail one more time in the 2nd test and then they will give a chance to haris and masood if both of them fail in one test, they will not be selected for the next series but hafeez and shehzad will ...merry-go round of pak never ends and can never understand..
 
There's the customary Misbah SIX coming out of nowhere. Trademark Misbah. these will be missed when he's gone.
 
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