Steve Smith’s legacy is forever tainted

[dildilpak]

The best test batsman in the world, for many he was second to only Sir Don. But no matter what he achieves now in terms of runs, Steve Smith’s legacy will forever be tainted by his actions yesterday. He had everything to loose especially after the big Ashes win and comparatively very little to gain (a series loss in SA after all is not the end of the world) so wonder what made Steve Smith act the way he did - was it a true ‘brain fade’, a spur of the moment adrenaline or sheer inability to take anything going against oneself? Or is he actually shielding someone?

 

[jnaveen1980]

Not just Smith's. Australia's legacy.

 

[Slog]

No it won't be. His legacy exists because of his batting not his captaincy and this event does not make an iota of difference to his batting pedigree and integrity

In the grand scheme of things ball tampering is not a major unforgivable crime such as match fixing and this is why it only has minor punishment. Ofcourse this is bad PR but people will move on like they did with Faf Du Plessis in Australia last summer

 

[Proactive_]

So you mean Rahul Dravid'd legacy is tainted as well since he was convicted of ball tampering in 2004? Or Michael Atherton? Or Sachin Tendulkar? Or Imran Khan? Or Faf Du Plessis?.. amongst legions of other very good/great players who have been caught tampering?

 

[hk031992]

So you mean Rahul Dravid'd legacy is tainted as well since he was convicted of ball tampering in 2004? Or Michael Atherton? Or Sachin Tendulkar? Or Imran Khan? Or Faf Du Plessis?.. amongst legions of other very good/great players who have been caught tampering?

agreed

its an offense for sure, but lets not make too big a deal out of it.

 

[Aman]

No it won't be. His legacy exists because of his batting not his captaincy and this event does not make an iota of difference to his batting pedigree and integrity

In the grand scheme of things ball tampering is not a major unforgivable crime such as match fixing and this is why it only has minor punishment. Ofcourse this is bad PR but people will move on like they did with Faf Du Plessis in Australia last summer

He's a cheat.

 

[BreadPakoda]

His legacy as a batsman shouldn't be affected by these actions. If he was a bowler then definitely questions could have been asked on his skills. His legacy as a captain is tarnished forever.

 

[jnaveen1980]

So you mean Rahul Dravid'd legacy is tainted as well since he was convicted of ball tampering in 2004? Or Michael Atherton? Or Sachin Tendulkar? Or Imran Khan? Or Faf Du Plessis?.. amongst legions of other very good/great players who have been caught tampering?

Yea right

 

[Oligochaetes]

Nothing is tainted..lol... Amir has returned after match fixing, Jadeja is commentating, Azhar is an politician in India,

People have short memories, this will blow over, will not affect his batting feats!

 

[angrypathan]

No it won't be. His legacy exists because of his batting not his captaincy and this event does not make an iota of difference to his batting pedigree and integrity

In the grand scheme of things ball tampering is not a major unforgivable crime such as match fixing and this is why it only has minor punishment. Ofcourse this is bad PR but people will move on like they did with Faf Du Plessis in Australia last summer

It's all but confirmed that Smith will be stripped of the captaincy for this incident now that the Australian Sports Commission (a government agency) has asked for him to be stood down. This will taint his legacy for sure. None of the players you've mentioned were removed from captaincy on their government's orders

 

[Sam99]

i don't get why we target ausies so much if same thing is done by faf or sachin or dravid or wasim's then everyone is quiet.

 

[Convict]

Smith will never Captain Australia again.

Imo he will still be remembered as a great batsman but doubt the Australia public will love him the way we loved Ponting.

 

[Gotham Cronie]

I doubt it. We live in a 24 hour news cycle world.

 

[hk031992]

Smith will never Captain Australia again.

Imo he will still be remembered as a great batsman but doubt the Australia public will love him the way we loved Ponting.

a bit of an overreaction to remove him from captaincy, don't you think?

 

[Slog]

Yea right

Rahul Dravid actually has been punished for ball tampering.

Sachin was but punishment was reversed

 

[Convict]

a bit of an overreaction to remove him from captaincy, don't you think?

No.

 

[WengerOut]

Rahul Dravid actually has been punished for ball tampering.

Sachin was but punishment was reversed

Should've indicated why

 

[Ab Fan]

Nothing is tainted..lol... Amir has returned after match fixing, Jadeja is commentating, Azhar is an politician in India,

People have short memories, this will blow over, will not affect his batting feats!

Their legacy has definitely been tainted due to the match fixing saga. Ofcourse, they have continued with their profession but whenever we will talk of their legacy that will come to haunt them.

If Smith's captaincy gets sacked, it will taint his legacy although if he comes up from this incident, and become a legend of the game due to his batting prowess, he will still be remembered as one of the Australian greatest batters of all time but he will never gonna get himself rid of this ball tampering saga. That will still haunt him.

 

[pillionrider]

He was never going to be remembered as next to Bradman.

This incident should have no bearing on his stature as a batsman which will be one of his era's best and that's about what it was always going to be.

 

[Torborg]

No.

Agreed. Next in line is Warner, then...hmmm.

The cupboard is bare.

Is the ACB brave enough to choose Warner?

 

[Convict]

Agreed. Next in line is Warner, then...hmmm.

The cupboard is bare.

Is the ACB brave enough to choose Warner?

Tim Paine as an interim.

Khawaja and Mitch Marsh Captain their respective shield sides.

 

[WengerOut]

Tim Paine as an interim.

Khawaja and Mitch Marsh Captain their respective shield sides.

Was Clarke joking when he said he would think about captaining if asked ?

 

[Convict]

Was Clarke joking when he said he would think about captaining if asked ?

Clarke is trying to make himself look good.

 

[TM Riddle]

Rahul Dravid actually has been punished for ball tampering.

Sachin was but punishment was reversed

Sachin was declared non guilty. But let the conspiracy theories flow

 

[dildilpak]

‘Integrity’ and ‘Smith’ cannot be used in the same sentence now. Granted this has nothing to do with his batting ability nor is this an isolated ball-tempering case in the history of cricket, but then again none of them has been so blatant - not just in terms of willful collusion to cheat but also the willingness to throw a younger team-mate under the bus to maintain his own record as a captain. Even if he gets away with a small punishment, I wonder how Smith can maintain his game under the constant scrutiny his actions will now warrant

 

[dildilpak]

So was Inzamam. Can we move ahead from all this and keep this only about Smith?

 

[Convict]

‘Integrity’ and ‘Smith’ cannot be used in the same sentence now. Granted this has nothing to do with his batting ability nor is this an isolated ball-tempering case in the history of cricket, but then again none of them has been so blatant - not just in terms of willful collusion to cheat but also the willingness to throw a younger team-mate under the bus to maintain his own record as a captain. Even if he gets away with a small punishment, I wonder how Smith can maintain his game under the constant scrutiny his actions will now warrant

If Smith wanted to throw Bancroft under the bus he could have. He's only in trouble because he didn't and admitted that he was responsible for it.

 

[Slog]

Sachin was declared non guilty. But let the conspiracy theories flow

What does saying punishment was reversed mean? Stop looking to be offended lol

 

[dildilpak]

If Smith wanted to throw Bancroft under the bus he could have. He's only in trouble because he didn't and admitted that he was responsible for it.

They possibly could not have done that after the great Lehmann cover-up fiasco. Nor could he have worked with the younger members of his team if he had let Bancroft solely take the rap. Smith had no option but to own up after that!

 

[Convict]

They possibly could not have done that after the great Lehmann cover-up fiasco. Nor could he have worked with thd younger members of his team if he had let Bancroft solely take the rap. Smith had no option but to own up after that!

He easily could have done that and weaseled out of it.

Bancroft would have got the usual one test ICC ban and that would be all there is to it.

 

[AMSS]

If Smith wanted to throw Bancroft under the bus he could have. He's only in trouble because he didn't and admitted that he was responsible for it.

Not on account of the goodness of his heart. Because the weasel Smith knew well that bancroft could rat him and the rest of the 'leadership' group, leading to a bigger fallout. His presser last evening reeked of a man oblivious of the enormity of his misdeeds.

 

[Slog]

He easily could have done that and weaseled out of it.

Bancroft would have got the usual one test ICC ban and that would be all there is to it.

So that's naive of smith to not do that

 

[Convict]

Not on account of the goodness of his heart. Because the weasel Smith knew well that bancroft could rat him and the rest of the 'leadership' group, leading to a bigger fallout. His presser last evening reeked of a man oblivious of the enormity of his misdeeds.

Why would Bancroft do that when CA probably would have looked after him and he'd be right back in the side after serving his ban?

 

[Slog]

Sachin was declared non guilty. But let the conspiracy theories flow

[

To add to this.. I was correcting the poster there and saying Sachin wasn't ultimately change for ball tampering

I guess some people just look for things to be offended about.

 

[Oligochaetes]

The country's Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull has also called the incident a "shocking disappointment". "We all work up this morning shocked and bitterly disappointed by the news from South Africa," Turnbull said. "It seemed completely beyond belief that the Australian cricket team had been involved in cheating.

O Ma Gawd!

If the Australian Prime Minister reacts like this, then SMith's legacy is definitely tarnished, atleast in short term. Bringing shame to the country is not something you would want to be associated with.

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

He easily could have done that and weaseled out of it.

Bancroft would have got the usual one test ICC ban and that would be all there is to it.

True but I don’t think Smith got the gravity of the issue. It was almost like some kids caught breaking a window. Wonder what happened when he woke up and read everything. Would have been a shock

One thing to impulsively bite the ball ( and afridi really got away with it ) another for almost half the team to be involved in a premeditated attempted.

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

I’m actually really surprised Turnbull has interjected himself like this, he tends to be more cautious in such matters. Maybe I saw a chance to get more votes

 

[AMSS]

Why would Bancroft do that when CA probably would have looked after him and he'd be right back in the side after serving his ban?

No doubt, CA could do that. After all we are talking about a board which neatly covered up the most suspect fixing episode of 90s involving Waugh Jr and Warne.

But this is different.

There was first the soured context in which this series was played with both team at once playing victim and trying to appear righteous.

Then came the shocking visuals unlike *any* we have seen before. The shoving of sandpaper down the crotch, the walkie-talkie, the promptness with which Boof instructed Handscomb to intimate the crooks in the playing field...you get the point.

Both the 'leadership' group in the team and Smith and Boof in particular would know the matter will not die down by simply throwing bancroft under the bus.

Everyone, from KP to Steyn to many a aussie figures have mentioned that this could not have transpired without Boof and Smith's explicit sanction. So yeah, the call for investigation would only have grown louder by the minute.

So no, your proposed solution would not have worked in the least.

 

[Convict]

I’m actually really surprised Turnbull has interjected himself like this, he tends to be more cautious in such matters. Maybe I saw a chance to get more votes

To be fair this is Australia. The Prime Minister not commenting on this would have been odd. He didn't really say much either if you actually read what he said.

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

To be fair this is Australia. The Prime Minister not commenting on this would have been odd. He didn't really say much either if you actually read what he said.

True. Is the PM a patron of the board here, I keep forgetting ?

 

[Convict]

True. Is the PM a patron of the board here, I keep forgetting ?

Nope. We don't have a patron of the board. David Peever (ex Rio Tinto) is the Chairman.

Seems like Jeff Kennett has also thrown in his 50 cents and called for everyone involved to be sacked forever.

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

Nope. We don't have a patron of the board. David Peever (ex Rio Tinto) is the Chairman.

Seems like Jeff Kennett has also thrown in his 50 cents and called for everyone involved to be sacked forever.

Haha typical Jeff Kennett overreaction, probably thought he had to one up Turnbull

 

[James]

If this was most batsmen I do not think this would affect their legacy, however Smith had gone past Herbert Sutcliffe and Graeme Pollock in the all-time list. He currently averages 62.5 in Test cricket, the second best ever, and was beginning to cement himself as the 21st Century successor to the Don. However he will never have a reputation even half of Bradman’s now - because he cheated. So yes, because it is him and because he is so good, then it will negatively impact his legacy.

 

[kingusama92]

I still feel the reaction is wildly out of proportion to what occurred.

You'd think they fixed a match.

1) Waugh + Warne became leaders after 1994's fixing.
2) Faf remained captain after 2013 and 2016.
3) Inzi beat a fan and became captain.
4) Dravid tampered and became captain.
5) Waqar Younis tampered in 2002 and stayed captain
6) Afridi tampered the pitch and ball yet became captain
7)Ponting fought in a nightclub (2003) and stayed captain

I'm not sure what the Australians are thinking if they go overboard here.

They literally never did this with Waugh, Warne, or Ponting who had worse offenses.

 

[Hiraeth]

I’m actually really surprised Turnbull has interjected himself like this, he tends to be more cautious in such matters. Maybe I saw a chance to get more votes

Doubt he knew about it until someone gave him something to say to the media.

 

[Convict]

Doubt he knew about it until someone gave him something to say to the media.

Its the biggest news in Australia man.

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

Its the biggest news in Australia man.

It’s also the top story on the BBC homepage

Even CNN just covered it

 

[Convict]

I still feel the reaction is wildly out of proportion to what occurred.

You'd think they fixed a match.

1) Waugh + Warne became leaders after 1994's fixing.
2) Faf remained captain after 2013 and 2016.
3) Inzi beat a fan and became captain.
4) Dravid tampered and became captain.
5) Waqar Younis tampered in 2002 and stayed captain
6) Afridi tampered the pitch and ball yet became captain
7)Ponting fought in a nightclub (2003) and stayed captain

I'm not sure what the Australians are thinking if they go overboard here.

They literally never did this with Waugh, Warne, or Ponting who had worse offenses.

Difference is that Waugh and Warne never admitted to anything beyond sharing weather news and notably Warne was ignored for Captaincy positions when Steve Waugh retired. Smith admitted to deliberately cheating in an organised fashion.

 

[Slog]

If this was most batsmen I do not think this would affect their legacy, however Smith had gone past Herbert Sutcliffe and Graeme Pollock in the all-time list. He currently averages 62.5 in Test cricket, the second best ever, and was beginning to cement himself as the 21st Century successor to the Don. However he will never have a reputation even half of Bradman’s now - because he cheated. So yes, because it is him and because he is so good, then it will negatively impact his legacy.

Ball tampering allegations rarely stick and have little effect on legacy and even less so if the player is not a bowler

Only issue is the admission that they did this as part of an organzied attempt to cheat. Why they says this is beyond me. Best should've let it die its own death after a few days of hullabaloo

 

[Mamba Red]

Smith needs to step down has brought shame to the country.

 

[pakistani pride]

LOL. Talk about a huge over the top reaction. This has been part if cricket. Its not a great thing to do but some of the reactions.... PP aunties having a field day.

 

[Convict]

LOL. Talk about a huge over the top reaction. This has been part if cricket. Its not a great thing to do but some of the reactions.... PP aunties having a field day.

If you think its PP aunties you should check out Australian forums and news sites.

 

[BreadPakoda]

If you think its PP aunties you should check out Australian forums and news sites.

Yea, RIP Australian cricket and all that.

A noticeable disparity in ethical standards. Didn't see this level of uproar when Faf used his zipper, or during several other cases with different countries.

 

[kingusama92]

Difference is that Waugh and Warne never admitted to anything beyond sharing weather news and notably Warne was ignored for Captaincy positions when Steve Waugh retired. Smith admitted to deliberately cheating in an organised fashion.

Like I said, he became short-term captain in 1999.

The only thing that changed in 2002 was Gilchrist. He was on equal standing with Warne and they didn't want to choose between them.

Thus, the younger Ponting got the gig.

And what about Ponting's fight (while drunk) in the night club? Why did he become captain? I'd imagine beating someone up is worse than ball tampering.

As of now, Australians rank ball tampering worse than fixing, assault, and probably murder too.

 

[thanuu]

If Smith wanted to throw Bancroft under the bus he could have. He's only in trouble because he didn't and admitted that he was responsible for it.

Bancroft might have forced Smith to take the responsbility else he would have spill the beans on the leadership group which includes lehman tooo. I don't see any other reason for smith owning up to ball tampering.

 

[Convict]

Bancroft might have forced Smith to take the responsbility else he would have spill the beans on the leadership group which includes lehman tooo. I don't see any other reason for smith owning up to ball tampering.

Don't see why Bancroft would have done that. The fact that he actually went ahead and cheated means he knows exactly how the game is played.
He would have taken his one test ban and been looked after by CA.

 

[WengerOut]

What are the future series for Australia?

 

[Bhaijaan]

Prestige means a lot to the Big 3 nations i.e., India, England and Australia. Fans from other nations can't understand the gravity of the situation here. Cheating is simply unacceptable among big 3 who put pride and honour over winning at all cost. By his acts Smith has not only hurt Australia but has embarrassed all of us big 3 elites.

From now on whatever he achieves he achieves for himself. To us he's never gonna be a Bradman, Tendulkar or a WG Grave figure now.

 

[pratiktc]

Bancroft and Smith are really idiots for the way they went about things.

Lehmann could've just passed the message down to Smith, they could've had a drinks huddle and asked Bancroft to go on a toilet break to get rid of the evidence. Without that damning video, this could've been more of a speculatory affair with at worst a fine and 1 match ban on Bancroft.

Failing that, when Smith decided not to throw Bancroft under the bus, he might as well have taken the fall for planning the decision alone. It would have anyway ended his captaincy but atleast wouldn't have jeopardized succession to Davey Warner. Now there's a whole 'group' that'll be dragged across the coals.

 

[Mr.Q]

Legacy as a batsman? No I don’t think so. All of this will fade away with time. Statistics will stay and players will be evaluated based on that and individual performances.

There are 100s of player Vs player threads on this forum. I didn’t see anyone mentioning any ‘incident’.

Smith pleaded guilty because he knew there’s no way out. They realise it’s better to close this chapter and move on. Keeping it open will only do more harm to the board and his career.

 

[Romali_rotti]

From a personal point of view I don't feel Smith's legacy is tainted. I look at Smith the player and how he played on the field, his stats,numbers, innings etc and he will always be legendary there, if he keeps going this way. I would be more harsh if they took money to lose games..

 

[Hasan123]

Slightly tainted but he will still be remembered for his great batting than this.

 

[Markhor]

It won't tarnish his legacy as a batsman but I'm sick of hearing this "leadership group" buzzword. It sounds like a way to throw others under the bus.

There's one guy who takes full responsibility for the actions of his players on the field and that's the captain.

 

[R3verse Swing]

He will forever be known as Steve Sandpaper Smith.

Most of you comparing past incidences are forgetting one simple fact, Steve not only confessed to there being a plan to cheat (intent), but also grassed on his other team mates that were part of the leadership group.

 

[Varun]

His "legacy as a batsman" is still a work in progress. We've seen with Ponting / Dravid before that they can have a stellar 4-5 years in the middle but end up as just another among the pack - similar might happen to Smith.

Safe to say he isn't an ODI ATG, so there's that for starers.

 

[Oligochaetes]

It won't tarnish his legacy as a batsman but I'm sick of hearing this "leadership group" buzzword. It sounds like a way to throw others under the bus.

There's one guy who takes full responsibility for the actions of his players on the field and that's the captain.

Yea, he sure dragged a few along with him :yshah1

 

[fawad_wellwisher]

He should never ever be made captain of the team as this is not the first time he has been caught blatantly cheating. In the India series he was caught looking at the dressing room asking whether he should review or not.

I suspect the current coach of the Australian team has not been a good role model for the players and has been actively involved behind the scenes to concoct these schemes.

 

[Rishta Aunty]

I think he will be tainted only cause of the shocking ineptitude on display. I have to point fingers at Lehmann, the Aussie behaviour has done to the dogs once he got in charge.

 

[ethan hunt]

Why didn't Smith distance himself from Bancroft's actions like Southafrica did with Duplessis ??

I am surprised Smith didnt take the easy way out and just throw Bancroft under the bus .
Bancroft would have been suspended for a game or two and Smith could have saved his own skin much like the Southafricans did with Duplessis and Phillander over in the UAE and Srilanka. No doubt that it was just as much a case of systematic planned cheating as this one .
No sympathies for Smith but i just feel that he could have handled it like Graeme smith and Ab devilliers and would not have been demonised to this extent.

 

[Convict]

Its the one time in this whole mess that he's done the right thing.

 

[Varun]

Because everybody would see through that and his reputation would be in even bigger tatters than it is now.

 

[Bilal7]

He's not captain anymore and batting has nothing to do with ball-tampering. What might happen is that this scandal brings an end to Smith's great form and he never regains it.

 

[SamNJ]

Agree he could have easily chosen to distance himself from this but either he felt that its not the right thing to do or Bancroft just broke down and told him that he would spill the beans if Smithy does this.

 

[Bilal7]

Yea, RIP Australian cricket and all that.

A noticeable disparity in ethical standards. Didn't see this level of uproar when Faf used his zipper, or during several other cases with different countries.

Faf was not the captain when he used his zipper and he was public enemy #1 for a while after that. In Australia last year, mint gate was not as serious as this but also, Faf did not outright say that he was trying to tamper the ball.

 

[fawad_wellwisher]

I will be more sympathetic to Smith if he tells us how long this has been going on.

 

[Buffet]

I still feel the reaction is wildly out of proportion to what occurred.

You'd think they fixed a match.

1) Waugh + Warne became leaders after 1994's fixing.
2) Faf remained captain after 2013 and 2016.
3) Inzi beat a fan and became captain.
4) Dravid tampered and became captain.
5) Waqar Younis tampered in 2002 and stayed captain
6) Afridi tampered the pitch and ball yet became captain
7)Ponting fought in a nightclub (2003) and stayed captain

I'm not sure what the Australians are thinking if they go overboard here.

They literally never did this with Waugh, Warne, or Ponting who had worse offenses.

Leadership group sitting together, planning and executing deliberate cheating as a group. Then coach running wild to instruct players to hide it after it's shown on live camera.

That's taking it too far. I am sure that Aus fans wouldn't like to have such a set up in future. Here if Smith was doing it on his own and spur of moment, it will be a different situation.

 

[Buffet]

He should never ever be made captain of the team as this is not the first time he has been caught blatantly cheating. In the India series he was caught looking at the dressing room asking whether he should review or not.

I think Kohli or someone used systematic cheating or similar words then. Systematic cheating fits very well with Smith and Lehman.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I will be more sympathetic to Smith if he tells us how long this has been going on.

And what else have they tried and gotten away with.

We know of only 2 things.

 

[Bilal7]

Incorrect. There is actual doubt in the other cases you mentioned because the captain never came out and said that yes, the "leadership group" asked the guy to tamper with the ball. It was more likely a isolated incident with Faf and Philander doing it in the spur of the moment. The latter used just his nails so it wasn't like he premeditated by bringing in a foreign object.

Also, I doubt a player would just take being labelled a cheat and eat a suspension when his captain and vice captain asked him to do it. Especially someone like Bancroft who is already facing the axe due to poor form.

 

[Buffet]

LOL. Talk about a huge over the top reaction. This has been part if cricket. Its not a great thing to do but some of the reactions.... PP aunties having a field day.

Nah, it's lot worse in Aus forum and news sites. Check it out. In PP, it's subdued due to obvious reason.