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Steve Waugh in the 90s

EC666

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I'm making this Steve Waugh appreciation thread because the Tendulkar cult keeps yapping about Sachin's 1990's average, even though Tendy averaged only 49 outside the subcontinent in the 90s, and over 20 percent of those runs came from beating up SL on flat tracks (in 13 tests, in which he wasnt even the leading Indian scorer).

Steve Waugh, in contrast, averaged 61 with 23 centuries from 1993 to 2001. His away average for the same period was 62...

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...pan;template=results;type=allround;view=match

...and he averaged in the 60s vs all teams, except Sri Lanka, whom he averaged in the 100s, and India, who he averaged 49. What's staggering is that Waugh averaged in the mid 40s vs Pakistan. I can't find anybody else in this era averaging this high vs the deadly Pak bowling attack.

And remember, Waugh didn't only face and do well vs the Pak attack, he played three series vs tough West Indian attacks. The 95 and 99 WI vs Aus battles were particularly epic, Waugh weathering the storm in 95 and doing even better in 99 (a century and a 199), though Ambrose, Walsh and Lara would steal his thunder.

Steve had Border, Ponting, Boon and Mark Waugh around him for most of his career, always somebody solid surrounding him, which allowed him to drop anchor and play conservatively. He came low down the order, so you'd think he wouldn't have time to get those big centuries, but because his team-mates stuck around, he was able to cash in.

Surprisingly, Waugh averaged 68 vs Alan Donald in 12 tests, with 2 centuries and 4 scores in the 80/90 range. Again, nobody else in this period was doing this well vs Donald. As a comparison, these are Lara and Tendy's stats vs Donald:

Lara's average vs Donald in the 1990s in tests and odis = 32 and 52
Tendulkar's average vs Donald in the 1990s in tests and odis = 32 and 23

Lara's average vs Donald in the 1990s in test's home and away = 40 and 31
Lara's average vs Donald in the 1990s in odis home and away = 136 and 38.5

Tendulkar's average vs Donald in the 1990s in test's home and away = 17 and 36
Tendulkar's average vs Donald in the 1990s in odis home and away = 28 and 21

Lara's average vs Donald in 2000s in tests and odi = 36 and 50.28
Lara's average vs Donald in 2000s in tests and odis at home = 36 and 43
Lara's average vs Donald in 2000s in tests and odis away = - and 68.4

Tendulkar's average vs Donald in 2000s in tests and odi = 36 and 27
Tendulkar's average vs Donald in 2000s in test and odis at home = 36 and -
Tendulkar's average vs Donald in 2000s in tests and odi away = - and 39

Of course a large part of the reason why Waugh was so successful was beacause he was SLOW. The South Africans used to nickname him PAINT, because watching him bat was like watching paint dry. Waugh's strike rate was typically in the 40s, very slow, not very entertaining, but effective against big gun bowlers, who he'd block for hours upon hours and wait for bad balls.

And of course Waugh remains the most successful test captain, winning 72 percent of his games.

His most impressive achievement, though, was putting up with Warnie's squeaky voice for a decade.
 
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Amazing all-rounder. Great batsman, decent bowler, great fielder and amazing captain.

Was the best batsman in the world for a good 1-2 years there when he peaked and that's with the likes of Lara, Sachin and Adams all not doing too badly at the time either.

So many egos in one team yet we never heard anything from the Aussie camp during his tenure. Mostly.

Good thread.
 
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I'm making this Steve Waugh appreciation thread because the Tendulkar cult keeps yapping about Sachin's 1990's average, even though Tendy averaged only 49 outside the subcontinent in the 90s, and over 20 percent of those runs came from beating up SL on flat tracks (in 13 tests, in which he wasnt even the leading Indian scorer).

Steve Waugh, in contrast, averaged 61 with 23 centuries from 1993 to 2001. His away average for the same period was 62...

In short you're creating a thread out of spite.

Of course, I'll disregard the tiny matter of foregoing Tendulkar's stats outside three countries (India, Pakistan, Lanka) rather than Waugh's one (Australia).

Fair enough if you're a Steve Waugh fan, but you shouldn't have a two track mind and slip up in the process.
 
Waugh was a different league to SRT, especially given the additional burden of captaincy. We saw how mentally weak SRT was when he was captain.
 
Waugh was a different league to SRT, especially given the additional burden of captaincy. We saw how mentally weak SRT was when he was captain.

Yeah, ask Waugh to captain a bowling attack comprising of legends like Mohanty, Doda Ganesh, and Venkatesh Prasad.
 
Waugh was so good with his limited skills and determination to do well that Dravid became an even better batsman after seeking his advice on that famous Australian tour!

As a captain, that's an all together different debate how good or not good he was as some say that credit should be given to Taylor for handing over a progressive team of star players over to Waugh.
 
EC666 comes with his manipulative stats and then has the nerve to say Sachin club keep yapping about 90's record.

His argument about Sachin's record in 90's is messed up. The stats of Sachin Vs Lara in different venues in the 90's was posted in the other thread. Sachin won that 5-3. Lara was marginally better wherever he won (except Eng). Sachin won by a big margin wherever he won.

So keep crying.

Reg the main topic - Waugh was amazing. He would just stick on and play great knocks.
 
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Yeah, ask Waugh to captain a bowling attack comprising of legends like Mohanty, Doda Ganesh, and Venkatesh Prasad.

He was mentally weak because he allowed his poor team to affect his batting form. Flat track bully.
 
View attachment 45358

I'm making this Steve Waugh appreciation thread because the Tendulkar cult keeps yapping about Sachin's 1990's average, even though Tendy averaged only 49 outside the subcontinent in the 90s, and over 20 percent of those runs came from beating up SL on flat tracks (in 13 tests, in which he wasnt even the leading Indian scorer).

Steve Waugh, in contrast, averaged 61 with 23 centuries from 1993 to 2001. His away average for the same period was 62...

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...pan;template=results;type=allround;view=match

Interesting that you pick Sachin's stats for 90s whereas for Waugh it is from '93-2001. Maybe you did so because between in 9-10 months of 2000-01 Waugh hit a purple patch and hit some 6-7 100s! How about doing a like to like comparison?

In the 90s
Waugh - Avg of 53 with 18 100s, Away from home, Avg of 58 with 9 100s
Sachin - Avg of 58 with 22 100s, Away from home, Avg of 57 with 13 100s
 
He was mentally weak because he allowed his poor team to affect his batting form. Flat track bully.

Mentally weak and FTB are the last two attributes one will attach with him, may be you watched a different version.
 
PLEASE...A blind man could have led that Aus team. Sachin had a bunch of lightweights who couldn't score 120 in Barbados. Surely has nothing to do with Waugh being a brilliant captain or Sachin being a poor captain.

If anything, Sachin was a defensive captain, and the reason for that is that he had a poor team. A blind man can attack with McGrath and Warne at each end.

I have great respect for AB and Mark Taylor as captains. Waugh and pointing simply inherited a legacy.
 
Off-topic, but Donald is an awful bowling coach. Very emotional and nervy, and that didn't do any favours with the already mentally fragile South African bunch.

Not saying that he won't get an IPL contract though - those are up for grabs for a dime a dozen.

Second that. Haven't seen anything of substance. Didn't shake the world at Warwickshire, Don't even get me started on Pune Warriors and RCB.

Reg SA team, I would like to see how he moulds the youngsters coming along. Steyn/Morkel and Philander were already established.
 
He was mentally weak because he allowed his poor team to affect his batting form. Flat track bully.

PLEASE...A blind man could have led that Aus team. Sachin had a bunch of lightweights who couldn't score 120 in Barbados. Surely has nothing to do with Waugh being a brilliant captain or Sachin being a poor captain.

If anything, Sachin was a defensive captain, and the reason for that is that he had a poor team. A blind man can attack with McGrath and Warne at each end.

I have great respect for AB and Mark Taylor as captains. Waugh and pointing simply inherited a legacy.
 
I would always rue the fact that Steve Waugh had by then retired by the time I started to follow cricket as fan in its truest sense. Back in childhood in the 1990s or so, I knew about all these players, or most of them at least, but my passion for the game was more or less driven by the element of nationalism, hence hardly followed too many matches involving other teams than Pakistan.

I often watch his batting videos on YouTube though, and they make for a pleasant viewing.
 
I would always rue the fact that Steve Waugh had by then retired by the time I started to follow cricket as fan in its truest sense. Back in childhood in the 1990s or so, I knew about all these players, or most of them at least, but my passion for the game was more or less driven by the element of nationalism, hence hardly followed too many matches involving other teams than Pakistan.

I often watch his batting videos on YouTube though, and they make for a pleasant viewing.

Did you watch his battles against Ambrose ?
 
Whatever of it is available on YouTube......

I watched it live, and it proved beyond doubt what a hard nut to crack Steve was.. Facing an angry Ambrose (with his pride at stake) and surviving it was .. well.. let me say that no stats will do justice to that act, and no scoreboard can tell how difficult that battle was.

BTW, Steve is the last batsman I would like to pay to watch..
 
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I watched it live, and it proved beyond doubt what a hard nut to crack Steve was.. Facing an angry Ambrose (with his pride at stake) and surviving it was .. well.. let me say that no stats will do justice to that act, and no scoreboard can tell how difficult that battle was.

BTW, Steve is the last batsman I would like to pay to watch..

Heard so much about it.

I heard he wouldn't mind getting painfully hit by those Ambrose deliveries but he was determined to NOT give away his wicket at any cost.

Some things in cricket go beyond stats. So much beyond.

Staggering.
 
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Heard so much about it.

I heard he wouldn't bother getting hit but he would NOT at any cost would give away his wicket.

Some things in cricket go beyond stats. So much beyond.

Staggering.

What makes him better than other recent Australian greats is that he also handled Kumble well on a Delhi track.. in 1996 for the lone Test match, he scored 60+ and the way he survived against Kumble was also a treat to watch.. almost every time it looked like he would be late to the ball, and Kumble would get him LBW, but somehow he kept it on.. one of the better Test innings I saw someone play against Kumble at his most dangerous.
 
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I watched it live, and it proved beyond doubt what a hard nut to crack Steve was.. Facing an angry Ambrose (with his pride at stake) and surviving it was .. well.. let me say that no stats will do justice to that act, and no scoreboard can tell how difficult that battle was.

BTW, Steve is the last batsman I would like to pay to watch..

True. That innings of 200 in Jamaica '95 (Thanks to Courtney Browne who dropped him), brought an end to the magnificent WI era and was the dawn of a new Aussie Era. No one wuld have the guts to tell Ambrose FO on his face..This guy did and then faced up to him like a champ.. Hardest nut to crack. Huge Respect.
 
If you guys followed cricket in the 90's, Steve Waugh scored a 100 in one of games (against india i think) at the CommonWealth games in 98 (the only time cricket was included). That was a magnificent innings on such a difficult pitch. Aus eventually lost the gold medal to SA (surprise surprise!)

Still remember Tony Greig saying "When the going gets tough, Steve waugh gets going!" and suddenly i had goosebumps!
 
If you guys followed cricket in the 90's, Steve Waugh scored a 100 in one of games (against india i think) at the CommonWealth games in 98 (the only time cricket was included). That was a magnificent innings on such a difficult pitch. Aus eventually lost the gold medal to SA (surprise surprise!)

Still remember Tony Greig saying "When the going gets tough, Steve waugh gets going!" and suddenly i had goosebumps!

Yes, I watched it.. India sent a weak team with only Tendulkar the star player.. who looked eager to go to Canada.

Waugh handled Kumble there as well.. but it was a one-off ODI (not recognised perhaps).
 
Yes, I watched it.. India sent a weak team with only Tendulkar the star player.. who looked eager to go to Canada.

Waugh handled Kumble there as well.. but it was a one-off ODI (not recognised perhaps).

I think that is a bit harsh on Sachin. He tried his best. There was an ugly fight between IOC (Kalmadi) and BCCI as to who goes where. Agreed our team was weak but the other team also got cleaned up by pak in Toronto.
 
I think that is a bit harsh on Sachin. He tried his best. There was an ugly fight between IOC (Kalmadi) and BCCI as to who goes where. Agreed our team was weak but the other team also got cleaned up by pak in Toronto.

Both of the teams were weak :)

Sachin was clearly in a hurry to get out of the CWG, and head to Toranto, he even managed to reach in time and played the 5th match of Sahara cup lol.
 
Here´s another astonishing finding from me!

Sachin Tendulkar averaged 64.22 in the 1990s! He made 18 centuries! Wow!

Link:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...3;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

^dates given for the above query: 11th February 1993 to 31st December 1999.^

For a flat track bully in that period his average is quite good "away".

Aus : 57
Eng : 85
SA : 40
NZ : 70
SL : 110
WI : 57.

He failed in Zim with an average of 20.

Overall home average : 61, away average : 68.
 
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View attachment 45358

I'm making this Steve Waugh appreciation thread because the Tendulkar cult keeps yapping about Sachin's 1990's average, even though Tendy averaged only 49 outside the subcontinent in the 90s, and over 20 percent of those runs came from beating up SL on flat tracks (in 13 tests, in which he wasnt even the leading Indian scorer).

Steve Waugh, in contrast, averaged 61 with 23 centuries from 1993 to 2001. His away average for the same period was 62...

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...pan;template=results;type=allround;view=match

...and he averaged in the 60s vs all teams, except Sri Lanka, whom he averaged in the 100s, and India, who he averaged 49. What's staggering is that Waugh averaged in the mid 40s vs Pakistan. I can't find anybody else in this era averaging this high vs the deadly Pak bowling attack.

And remember, Waugh didn't only face and do well vs the Pak attack, he played three series vs tough West Indian attacks. The 95 and 99 WI vs Aus battles were particularly epic, Waugh weathering the storm in 95 and doing even better in 99 (a century and a 199), though Ambrose, Walsh and Lara would steal his thunder.

Steve had Border, Ponting, Boon and Mark Waugh around him for most of his career, always somebody solid surrounding him, which allowed him to drop anchor and play conservatively. He came low down the order, so you'd think he wouldn't have time to get those big centuries, but because his team-mates stuck around, he was able to cash in.

Surprisingly, Waugh averaged 68 vs Alan Donald in 12 tests, with 2 centuries and 4 scores in the 80/90 range. Again, nobody else in this period was doing this well vs Donald. As a comparison, these are Lara and Tendy's stats vs Donald:

Lara's average vs Donald in the 1990s in tests and odis = 32 and 52
Tendulkar's average vs Donald in the 1990s in tests and odis = 32 and 23

Lara's average vs Donald in the 1990s in test's home and away = 40 and 31
Lara's average vs Donald in the 1990s in odis home and away = 136 and 38.5

Tendulkar's average vs Donald in the 1990s in test's home and away = 17 and 36
Tendulkar's average vs Donald in the 1990s in odis home and away = 28 and 21

Lara's average vs Donald in 2000s in tests and odi = 36 and 50.28
Lara's average vs Donald in 2000s in tests and odis at home = 36 and 43
Lara's average vs Donald in 2000s in tests and odis away = - and 68.4

Tendulkar's average vs Donald in 2000s in tests and odi = 36 and 27
Tendulkar's average vs Donald in 2000s in test and odis at home = 36 and -
Tendulkar's average vs Donald in 2000s in tests and odi away = - and 39

Of course a large part of the reason why Waugh was so successful was beacause he was SLOW. The South Africans used to nickname him PAINT, because watching him bat was like watching paint dry. Waugh's strike rate was typically in the 40s, very slow, not very entertaining, but effective against big gun bowlers, who he'd block for hours upon hours and wait for bad balls.

And of course Waugh remains the most successful test captain, winning 72 percent of his games.

His most impressive achievement, though, was putting up with Warnie's squeaky voice for a decade.

This is a really thoughtful and insightful post and I agree with your views about Waugh being one of the best batsmen of all time and certainly of the 90's as well as one of the most astute and innovative cricketers of his era. I think comparing with other players eg tendu is pointless as they were both specific to their team and cultural make up. However having followed Waugh since the late 80's one can't help but admire this most annoying and tough as nails character. Much as I admire him, I hate him as well. I hate that he was almost impossible to get out in one of the ashes series. Think he went four innings without getting out. Another ashes think it was 2001, he slipped and ripped his calf muscle and we all rejoiced that he would be out for the remaining four matches as the physio suggested. Not this guy! He rehabilitated his calf muscle enough to come back for the following matches and scored a century with minimal running except for reaching the milestone then slipping for his 100 and raising his bat as he lay on the ground in agony. Sometimes stats really don't tell the full story.

However great he was, detractors would point to the so called mental disintegration and sledging as unsporting behaviour and they will have a point as he was very much an established and establishment figure sometimes appearing cruel to the opposition and even his team mates. One can't deny that he feasted on attacks that were weakened by corruption scandals. South Africa post cronje were a total mess and I can't agree wholeheartedly with your views on ambrose and Donald. West Indies then were a very weak team already in demise no matter what the line up says. (They lost to Kenya )Pakistan too were only strong on paper post 2000. In other words the last few years of Waughs prime decade (remember he played for nearly 2 decades and 150 tests) coincided with a period when other teams were in transition due to retirements or corruption or injuries. (Eg Shohaib almost never played except for in 2004 for only one match) also Wasim and Waqar were spent forces by 2001 and often our prime bowler would be a certain mohammed Sami, remember him!

But there is no denying that we was one awesome cricketer, formidable opponent and somebody who just can't be compared to other cricketers of his era. He defined his own legacy.
 
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