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Steven Finn - Discussion Thread

^ Great post, shows Shoaib was a lot better. You should add SR in too.

Kapil was probably a better allround player (although Shoaib did have a great defense for a few years as nightwatchman) but ask any neutral and they'll pick Shoaib in their side each time. :akhtar :akhtar
 
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octavian said:
If you wanna be indian and still go into stats, here is the complete picture.

Kapil 434 wickets @29.64 in 131 matches.
Shoaib 178 wickets@25.69 in 46 matches.

Shoaib could easily have slowed down and played 100 tests but he chose to bowl fast and play as many matches as he could. This might be too much to comprehend for an indian mentality, hence no fast bowlers for you. :soupnazi
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octavian said:
Kapil was not a FAST bowler. The comparison ends there.

I dont't rate you. You rate yourselvs by comparing kapil with akhtar when it comes to being a fast bowler.
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434 wickets to 178 says it allll

Akhtar would have to be reborn 3 times to play 131 matches.......

Avg is comparable between players who have similar no. of matches or wickets.......sadly Akhtar fails miserably in that department.........that is playing matches and taking wickets........
 
s2k said:
434 wickets to 178 says it allll
Akhtar would have to be reborn 3 times to play 131 matches.......

Avg is comparable between players who have similar no. of matches or wickets.......sadly Akhtar fails miserably in that department.........that is playing matches and taking wickets........
Click to expand...

So you wanna stay delusional in your little fortress of stupitude. So be it.

You can't be helped.
 
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Sledger said:
^ Great post, shows Shoaib was a lot better. You should add SR in too.

Kapil was probably a better allround player (although Shoaib did have a great defense for a few years as nightwatchman) but ask any neutral and they'll pick Shoaib in their side each time. :akhtar :akhtar
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Here you go sledger.

Shoaib career strike rate of 45. Kapil pa ji a terrifying 63.

But indians will take the moustached menace over the rawalpindi express. :))
 
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s2k said:
if 178 is more than 434.........than you know who the idiot is.......
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see post 128. and repeat until you comprehend the point. or ask someone older for help. Maybe ask your teacher at school.
 
octavian said:
see post 128. and repeat until you comprehend the point. or ask someone older for help. Maybe ask your teacher at school.
Click to expand...

Read post 130..........re read it and understand it.........that when and how a comparision should be made.
 
s2k, I'll not go into stats, but, for God's sake :KAPIL DEV WAS INDIA'S ONLY STRIKE BOWLER, THAT'S WHY HE PLAYED SO MUCH, AND THAT'S WHY HAS HAS MORE TEST WICKETS THAN MALCOLM MARSHALL OR IMRAN KHAN... GOOOOOOOOOOOOOT IT ?

I wont make it more complicate, as it's out of the intellectual reach of some Indian genius here.
 
Finn could develop in to a real tearaway pacer. He has the action and height. He'll probably play more now that Broad is injured.
 
s2k said:
He was never the best bowler in the world........never

And we are comparing careers and not primes........

Kapil's career more than Akhtar's any day.
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LOL Akhtar averaged 17 and 12 in Test cricket in 2002/03, easily the best Test bowler in the world. Kapil Paaji has never averaged less than 22 in a year, and was a very overrated bowler overall. Akhtar also averages 5 (yes 5) against NZ, wut?
 
I think the best way to look at this is to compare how lethal each player was. If Akhtar played 131 Tests like Kapil Paaji he'd have 36 five fers (13 more than Kapil lulz) and 6 ten fers (2 more lulz).

Kapil had longevity, but then again so did Habibul Bashar :shakib
 
s2k said:
if 178 is more than 434.........than you know who the idiot is.......
Click to expand...

this is a fast bowling thread

you have to talk about FAST bowlers

Kapil doesnt count

As I said Indians need to stay out of this thread as they are yet to produce one despite playing for 80 odd years

now if you want to start a thread about medium paced trundlers please do

Till then Fast bowling is the preserve of England, Australia, SA, WI, Pak, SRi Lanka, NZ
 
Guys please let Indians be happy with their Kapil Dev, Zaheer Khan, Harbhajan who average 30 plus in test cricket. You cant blame them, they dont know any better. They have learnt to be happy within their means.
 
As far as Finn is concerned. Plz it was just one spell. I doubt he can reach the same speeds again.
 
Poison said:
LOL Akhtar averaged 17 and 12 in Test cricket in 2002/03, easily the best Test bowler in the world. Kapil Paaji has never averaged less than 22 in a year, and was a very overrated bowler overall. Akhtar also averages 5 (yes 5) against NZ, wut?
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How many tests he played in those years?How many wickets did he take????

Sorry Mcgrath was the best bowler...and Akhtar is not even fit to tie his boots during the entire time they played......

NZ LOL.......

Sorry bro........as i have said your posts here doesnt change the opinion of experts all over the world.
 
Poison said:
I think the best way to look at this is to compare how lethal each player was. If Akhtar played 131 Tests like Kapil Paaji he'd have 36 five fers (13 more than Kapil lulz) and 6 ten fers (2 more lulz).

Kapil had longevity, but then again so did Habibul Bashar :shakib
Click to expand...

So why didnt Akhtar Played 131 test?Lol he didnt play even 50.......

What is the guranteed he would have maintained the same SR Avg etc??

Dont make aasumptions.......Look at what he did.........less than 200 wickets....well he doesnt even deserves a comparision to someone with 400+ wickets.
 
We've gone a bit off-topic now but for what it's worth, I've always considered McGrath the best of the best. Not the fastest, most exciting, most unpredictable nor even the most talented - but being the best is something different.
 
s2k said:
How many tests he played in those years?How many wickets did he take????

Sorry Mcgrath was the best bowler...and Akhtar is not even fit to tie his boots during the entire time they played......

NZ LOL.......

Sorry bro........as i have said your posts here doesnt change the opinion of experts all over the world.
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Why talking of Glenn McGrath lol ? He was ahead of Shoaib Akhtar, definitely. In fact, I think that Australian themselves put him as their best modern bowler, only competitor being Dennis Lillee. As an 'all-round' (Tests and ODIs) performer, I can just think of Joel Garner as more effective. He's one of the best EVER.

But we're talking of Kapil Dev for God's sake LOL. K-A-P-I-L-D-E-V.
Don't derail the thread any further: ask any non-South Asian cricket fan, and he'll choose Shoaib Akhtar over the moustached wonder.
Kapil Dev should be compared with Asif Iqbal (lol) as an all-rounder: both medium pacers who relied on swing. But for cricket's sake, don't bring Shoaib Akhtar in.

/Kapil Dev off-topic case closed.
 
@whippy

considering the the kind of numbers McGrath put up against the best line ups in the world, no one can argue with that.
 
Not surprising there's only one poster standing up for the great Kapil.

He was an medium pace allrounder, Shoaib was a fast bowler. Kapil played for draws, Shoaib played for wins. If Shoaib wanted to shorten his run up to two paces and bowl at the same pace, he would and play the same amount of games but take more wickets. He didn't because he was an entertainer and someone who won series on his own. Simples. :akhtar
 
Steven Finn, Shoaib Akhtar and Kapil Dev

What a random thread :yk
 
Sledger said:
Not surprising there's only one poster standing up for the great Kapil.

He was an medium pace allrounder, Shoaib was a fast bowler. Kapil played for draws, Shoaib played for wins. If Shoaib wanted to shorten his run up to two paces and bowl at the same pace, he would and play the same amount of games but take more wickets. He didn't because he was an entertainer and someone who won series on his own. Simples. :akhtar
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Shorten his run up and bowl with less pace..........well we saw what happened when he dropped his pace....Ross taylor carted him out of the WC.

Btw how many WCs does Shoaib has?How many test wins againist the best side of his time Australia does he have?

Some winner....
 
Why you speaking about Akhtar?

Keep on topic about Finn.. Finn was bowling superb that day. Lovely length and line for a tall guy bowling at 90+.. I thought he looked in great shape.

I didnt label him as an ODI bowler but he looks superb.. a fine talent.
 
:facepalm: why is kapil devs name being thrown around in a thread on fast bowlers , i am sure there is a seperate thread for legspinners .
on topic :finn looks like someone who can run through any batting lineup in a test match.. it is amazing to see how the english bowlers have improved , they must be doing something right with regards to their system , credit to the coaches and the setup , could never have imagined that the likes of broad , bresnan and others could improve as much as they have , while south africa has the ordinary tsotsobe as their third seamer on the other hand the english backup is amazing .
 
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octavian said:
@whippy

considering the the kind of numbers McGrath put up against the best line ups in the world, no one can argue with that.
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Aye aye. Plenty of bowlers I'd rather watch than him though, especially given his record against England :D
 
A thread solely based on Finn turns into Akhtar vs Kapil. Now I've seen it all :))
 
s2k said:
Shorten his run up and bowl with less pace..........well we saw what happened when he dropped his pace....Ross taylor carted him out of the WC.
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We're talking about test cricket.

s2k said:
Btw how many WCs does Shoaib has?
Click to expand...
We're talking about test cricket.

s2k said:
How many test wins againist the best side of his time Australia does he have?
Click to expand...
Never had the luxury of playing them at home, only played a couple of series against them. Cut through their batting on a flat wicket. How many test wins can Kapil brag of against WI in WI?

Moustashed at home, Mouse away. Bottom line :akhtar >>>> :kapil
 
don't trust the speed guns in England, to be honest.

they always give higher readings in the ODIs.
 
Sledger said:
We're talking about test cricket.


We're talking about test cricket.


Never had the luxury of playing them at home, only played a couple of series against them. Cut through their batting on a flat wicket. How many test wins can Kapil brag of against WI in WI?

Moustashed at home, Mouse away. Bottom line :akhtar >>>> :kapil
Click to expand...

:)))
 
Passionate-FastBowler said:
all those 10 year old kids who still think steven finn in faster and much better fast bowler than Shoaib Akhtar, Actually forget to think for a moment in their jealousy of Pakistani talent , ..........

And that is , For steven finn to even come close to the quality and supreme of Akhtar he has to first beat his own peers. Namely James Anderson, Tim breson, Chris Tremlet, Stuart broad.

Honestly ? Do you really think Finn is better than these fine four pace attack bowlers mentioned above ? How can he even come close to Akhtar when he can't be even better than the current English fast bowling Attack?

In your hatred you just forgot that being much improved bowler doesn't mean the best.

He doesn't even have a spot in the team for that matter. Let Tremlet recover and England reach its full bench strength of the mentioned fast bowlers. Then Steven will either be demoted to squad or will be asked to return back to domestic and wait for a call-up when needed.


There was no need to belittle great fast bowlers for your own hateful agendas.

Afterall I have always been saying to the English fans here on PP. If you can't respect others you ain't getting none and its been long time your British empire has died so neither can you any longer force to demand respect. Your choice.
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He is the fastest and youngest to take 50 wickets in tests for England.
 
Passionate-FastBowler said:
I highly doubt this with surety ( I can speak from personal experience). The mental approach to fast bowling in England is not about being fast and furious and bowl your heart out. Rather a passive line and length mentality.

That is one of the biggest reasons they have never produced express pace bowlers like Imran Khan, Waqar Younis and Shoiab Akhtar.

Remember what was Imran Khan's Golden rule when both the W's were under his tutelage ? "No matter what happens, I don't want to you to slacken your pace"

Same was the message to Wasim during WC92.

It was this killer instinct that Imran Khan not only Instilled in the two W's but it seemed to catch with the fans as well. And Thus we produced another generation of fast Bowlers who could not become permanent part of Pakistan Team due to W's and Akhtar being at their top , such as Mohammed Zahid (about whom even australians admit that he was even more faster than Akhtar ! Ramiz Raja also confirms this !) , other names I cannot remember now. But I think I drove my point home.



This is something England has been missing for more than 50 years now.

And unless they change their mental approach to fast bowling they will never produced any great pacers like Akhtar or Lee.

Mark my words.
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Frank Typhoon Tyson is considered to be one of the fastest bowler ever as fast as Jeff Thomson.
 
Passionate-FastBowler said:
That is one of the biggest reasons they have never produced express pace bowlers like Imran Khan, Waqar Younis and Shoiab Akhtar.

Remember what was Imran Khan's Golden rule when both the W's were under his tutelage ? "No matter what happens, I don't want to you to slacken your pace"

Same was the message to Wasim during WC92.

It was this killer instinct that Imran Khan not only Instilled in the two W's but it seemed to catch with the fans as well.
Click to expand...

This post is idealistic and basically false.

Dont know what matches you watched but every time I saw Wasim and Waqar bowl they bowled well within themselves, reduced their pace for the sake of accuracy and relied on the implied quicker effort ball to keep the batsman on their toes.

Yes they were well quick back in the day but that day didn't last very long.

The way you post reads like they thundered in at 100% pace for their whole careers. They didn't. And their records vs Shoaib's is testament to the fact it is much smarter to not bowl flat out for an entire career.
 
Frank Tyson, Fred Trueman, John Snow, Bob Willis, Steve Harmison - I know for a fact the last one was a very quick bowler, and the others are supposed to have been as well. Maybe Finn is next.

England do produce some genuinely fast bowlers - they are simply not obsessed with doing so.
 
Whippy said:
Frank Tyson, Fred Trueman, John Snow, Bob Willis, Steve Harmison - I know for a fact the last one was a very quick bowler, and the others are supposed to have been as well. Maybe Finn is next.

England do produce some genuinely fast bowlers - they are simply not obsessed with doing so.
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the obsession comes from the fact that in Asia, cricket is the number one sport and hence certain players are idolized as they are in football in Europe

Fast bowling heroes inspire generations of youngsters (as batting hereos do across the border)

Beckham, Rooney, Shoaib, Wasim etc
 
Whippy said:
Frank Tyson, Fred Trueman, John Snow, Bob Willis, Steve Harmison - I know for a fact the last one was a very quick bowler, and the others are supposed to have been as well. Maybe Finn is next.

England do produce some genuinely fast bowlers - they are simply not obsessed with doing so.
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You forgot Devon Malcolm.
 
ash 68 said:
the obsession comes from the fact that in Asia, cricket is the number one sport and hence certain players are idolized as they are in football in Europe

Fast bowling heroes inspire generations of youngsters (as batting hereos do across the border)

Tendulkar , Dravid , Kapil Paaji , Beckham, Rooney, Shoaib, Wasim etc
Click to expand...

Fixed.
 
Random Aussie said:
This post is idealistic and basically false.

Dont know what matches you watched but every time I saw Wasim and Waqar bowl they bowled well within themselves, reduced their pace for the sake of accuracy and relied on the implied quicker effort ball to keep the batsman on their toes.
Yes they were well quick back in the day but that day didn't last very long.

The way you post reads like they thundered in at 100% pace for their whole careers. They didn't. And their records vs Shoaib's is testament to the fact it is much smarter to not bowl flat out for an entire career.
Click to expand...

Biggest load of bullcr@p ever. Calling passionate-fastbowler's post false, when i haven't seen biggger lie on PP in it's history.
 
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5.1 - 148.8 kmph
5.2 - 142 kmph
5.3- 147.7 kmph
5.4- 148.6 kmph
5.5- 143.6 kmph
5.6- 144 kmph
 
Yeah he's rapid, look's like the Indian openers are happy to try & see him off.
 
Heat! Not sure if he'll break the 95-96-97mph with his current action, needs more sling maybe.
 
Wow. He is quick and you know with some more strength training he will get quicker and break the 150 Ks mark.
 
From what I've seen so far he's consistently around 90, odd ball going up to 92-93.
 
11.2 -144.3 kph

11.3 - 149.9 kph

11.4 - 147.9 kph
 
I don't care what the gun says, he's a good yard or two faster than any of the other England bowlers. Really bowling some quick stuff. Still looks a far better bet for test cricket at the moment though.
 
He has added 5 mph to his bowling................the strength training has worked for him
 
Second spell in the mid-80s. Only the one comeback over so far though.
 
Looks some bowler. Brilliant first spell today, didn't get his due figures again!
 
How can someone add so much pace to his bowling in 6-8 months?

I don't remember him ever hurrying the batsmen before but these 2 last ODIs have been a stark contrast.

From labeling him as a pie chucker, I'm completely reversing my opinion ( :ibutt ) and am a believer now
 
Steven Finn speed jump from 80 to 94 !!!

I have been on a 3 week holiday so i am not sure if there is a thread about this...

this guy could not reach 82 but he is touching 93 every ball!!!!!

what happend!!!!
 
Geez this guy IS fast!! I swear he was bowling slow in Ashes. Let's see ..
 
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