Well number of matches doesnt matter as much. I would say let him score 10k runs and if he scores 10k test runs at his current average of 60+ there will be no arguments he would be the best ever even better than bradman.
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Steven Smith or Kane Williamson? Who is the greatest player of this generation?
- Thread starter SarfiBabarHaris
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Well number of matches doesnt matter as much. I would say let him score 10k runs and if he scores 10k test runs at his current average of 60+ there will be no arguments he would be the best ever even better than bradman.
Smith as of now is the best TEST batsman of this generation. BUT, he still has 5 plus years left in his career.
We can judge when he has retired.
Kholi is defenitly the best batsmen of this era.
Accounting all 3 formats no one is better then kholi.
We can judge when he has retired.
Kholi is defenitly the best batsmen of this era.
Accounting all 3 formats no one is better then kholi.
Hitman
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Ok, let him reach 10,000 test runs. We’ll be able to make a conclusion.
Best test batsmen in general has to be the best batsmen in tests. Player quality is judged by his performances in tests. You can say Smith is the best batsman and kholi is better only in ODIs etc.
Mamoon
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You are evading the point. Kohli is a World Cup winner too. Yes he hasn’t performed as well as Smith in knockouts, but how can Smith be the greatest batsman of this generation with 8 hundreds?
Would you call a batsman with 8 Test hundreds the best batsman of his generation just because most of those hundreds have come in tough conditions?
Smith is a nobody in ODIs compared to many batsmen, let alone Kohli. The gap between him and Kohli in Tests is negligible compared to the gap between him and Kohli in ODIs.
There is simply no objective way in which one can prove beyond any reasonable doubt that Smith is a better overall batsman than Kohli. He simply isn’t, and that is why he is not the batsman of this generation.
However, he is certainly the best Test batsman of his era and that is more than enough adulation.
Mamoon
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Not true anymore. In this era, you have to excel in all formats to be among the elite players. The likes of Cook and Younis retired with stellar Test records but they didn’t have the reputation of the Fab Four and players like de Villiers etc. because they failed in Limited Overs.
No batsman today has mastered all three formats like Kohli has and that is why he is the best batsman of this generation.
Maybe for pyjama cricket lovers like you its not true anymore. Smith is the best batsman in the world for real cricket lovers and every players admits himself that test cricket is the real test for quality. Kholi himself spoke about it.
Its safe to say Smith is the best and others are better in ODIs etc. Australia dont even care about bilateral ODIs.
Yea no one cares about what ONE country thinks or doesnt think.
You can keep saying its pajama cricket and try ro dismiss the format. But it doesnt work like that.
Each format requries certain skills that you need ro succeed.
Majority rate based on all 3 formats. Its your choice not to move on with the times.
Kholi avgs 60 in odis compared to smiths 60 in tests.
On top of that kholi avgs 55 plus in tests and 50 in t20s...
Smith doesnt even come close.
Kholi will end up being the best batsman of this era, because he has mastered all 3 formats.
How is it safe to say smith is the best? Thats just your opinion based off one format that is slowly dying.
Smith still has 5 plus years to play. With his technique he is heavily reliant on hand eye co-ordination and reflexes.
Lets see how his career ends. Before jumping to conclusions.
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jeeteshssaxena
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Read my post please, i said i am ok with people putting smith ahead.
If you love LOIs so much fair enough I can see you point. But players themselves admit players quality should be judged on Test cricket and thats where smith has proved himself to be the best. Australia and now many other teams dont really care about bilateral ODIs. And when it comes to WCs Smith record is up there with the very best.
Players say playing test cricket is the pinacle of cricket, where has any player said judge us based on our test cricket. Not one player.
You keep mentioning AUS as the only country that cares, there is no other country that does this.
We are not talking about WC we are talking about longevity and adaptation of a player to a certain format.
Smith is great at 1/3 of the formats. While kholi is great in all 3..
Teams clearly do care about bilaterals, thats where they make MONEY.. just because aus has had an avg odi team for the past 4-5 years doesnt mean they dont care.
Their main bowlers have been injured majority of that time.
And for the past year their main 2 batsman were banned.
Stop with this nonsense that they dont care. This is a business at the end of the day. They make millions off odi cricket.
Your just stuck in the 70s. Fact is smith is more then a couple tiers below kholi in LOIs while kholi is just a notch below smith in tests.
Kholi is the greater batsman period.
They both have 5 plus years left in time we will see.
Bilal7
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Steven Smith is the best batsman out of the current 'fab four'. Williamson and Kohli are neck and neck while Root is some ways behind.
Bilal7
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People who still call Kohli the greatest ODI batsman of all-time should be ashamed of themselves. Did you not watch the last three world cups or one of the biggest Indo-Pak encounter of all-time (CT 2017)?
kingusama92
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He's the best Test batsman (without a doubt) but Smith's ODI and T20I numbers aren't good enough.
Kohli's consistency across all three formats is incredible.
Phantom Menace
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In Australia, England, South Africa and New Zealand players legacies are almost entirely defined by 3 things. Test record, ODI world cup record (particularly in knock outs) and ability to inspire their nation.
ODI bilaterals, everything 20/20 and even champions trophy are given very little meaning in these countries outside of being used to tie break in arguments.
Of course players care about bilaterals and 20/20 because of the money involved. They just don't mean much to legacy and being remembered in 50 or 100 years in these countries and the players know that. You have to be a real freak talent like ABDV for it to even enter the thinking as anything more than an afterthought.
As far as profile is concerned Kohli's always going to have the most people calling him the best because he is India's best player and is a genuinely great player. Smith could average 70 in tests and 50 in ODIs to go with his world cup knockout record and you would still have many people still calling Kohli the best because of ODI average and 20/20 record. Just a way of life.
The conversation is different in Asia and that's perfectly fine.
sweep_shot
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I think Smith is better in Test while Williamson is better in LOI.
Both are great players and possibly legends.
Both are great players and possibly legends.
Lmao.. if smith avg 50 in odis this conversation would be over. But he doesnt thats why its going on.
Times have changed and so has how legacies are made. I personally enjoy test cricket, but times have changed and so has formats.
All 3 formats should be included when defining a cricketers legacy.
What the point of playing all those games, putting all those extra hours on your body, when it wouldnt matter at the end of the day.
Kholi is a greater and more versitile batsman then smith. He can adapt and change his game according to the format.
We saw what he did in SA, and Eng.
Its unfortunate for him he never gets to play pakistan in tests other wise his legacy would be even greater.
Pak and india miss out on not have an ashes type series every year.
steve smith struggles against genuine pace in tests. i am sure archer will trouble smith in lords. smith was struggling aganst rabada in south africa.
he can score a million runs against english seamers and the ashes feeds him many runs. even then, he has been lucky against anderson in the past few years. the 2017 ashes had very flat pitches. this year, anderson became injured in the very first test. he has not faced anderson at his best, like kohli did last year, where ball was swinging more than it is now.
he can score a million runs against english seamers and the ashes feeds him many runs. even then, he has been lucky against anderson in the past few years. the 2017 ashes had very flat pitches. this year, anderson became injured in the very first test. he has not faced anderson at his best, like kohli did last year, where ball was swinging more than it is now.
barah_admi
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Williamson is the better all round batsman, across all formats and a far superior captain.
That is not to say Smith isn't great, especially in tests.
However, neither is truly the greatest player of this generation, or the way I like to look at it, this decade. I think some bowlers may have a shout.
andy0204
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smith already scored centuries against anderson in england here are the scorecard of all the centuries he scored
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...-scotland-2013
https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...d-ireland-2015
in one of them he won man of the match.
he struggled against rabada but still he averages 41 in southafrica.
kohli has done well in england this time but still averages 36
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Phantom Menace
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All 3 formats should be considered and they are, but not equally. Not even close.
Ultimately what matters most to your legacy as being the best at a sport is two main things. Performing at the highest level skill level of the sport and performing in the matches which people care about the most. (Well coming from a highly populated country crazy about the sport certainly helps a bunch too)
For performing at the highest skill level:
The most important skills for a batsman are scoring runs and not losing your wicket while the most important skill for a bowler is taking wickets, especially those of the best batsmen. The highest level of cricket to test these aspects of a batsman is clearly test cricket. As a batsman you have to deal with easily the most dangerous field settings. You have to face the best wicket taking bowlers in the world for elongated spells with fewer restrictions on what the bowler can do and the pressure of making mistakes and losing your wicket is much higher because of the huge opportunity cost. From a bowlers perspective its the highest level because test batsmen have the best technique for dealing with your bowling.
The point of bi lateral ODI and 20/20 has always been earning money. They help keep the boards afloat and the players paid because tests are so hard to monetize.
For performing in the matches which people care about the most:
The big one here is ODI world cups. Every team is tinkering and refining themselves to be at their best for this event. Every major team is competing and everyone is hyped to the maximum. Legends can be and are made here.
Outside of ODI world cups every country also cares about big test matches. Every cricket enthusiast knows what 281, 153*, Headingly 1981, 60 all out and 99.94 mean. The 2005 Ashes gripped the whole of England. South African fans won't soon forget Steyn ripping through the great Indian line ups in India. NZ fans get warm fuzzy feelings at the mere mention of the city of Hobart and the 1999 Chennai test is more remembered than any bilateral ODI.
Not only are legends made in these matches, they also exhibit players dealing with huge mental pressures with the massive weight of hope and expectation. Performing under at the highest level of inspection of your technique and ability or mental fortitude. This is how you see who is performing at the zenith of the sport.
Half of the cricketing world doesn't care about the 20/20 world cup. Same thing with the ICC Champions trophy.
Most ODI bi laterals are forgotten a year later and 20/20 bi laterals even sooner than that.
Lets look at the recently retired Hashim Amla
The tale of his career in a nutshell is that he was an elegant player who at one point was the best batsman on the planet (off the back of his test form) who had a late career slump and couldn't bring his A game when it mattered most in world cups.
If he had kept his test average a few points higher (50+) his legacy would be impacted massively.
If he had a better record at ODI world cups it would also impact his legacy massively.
If he scored a couple of 20/20 international hundreds and averaged 5 more in the format the conversation around his career and legacy wouldn't change at all.
As far as the fab four are concerned I currently have it Smith followed by Kohli, then Williamson and Root clearly last. I also have Williamson closer to Kohli than Kohli is to Smith. Test average of 63 is no joke!
Versatility doesn't just matter across formats. Smith has shown a better aptitude to conquering foreign spinning conditions than Kohli has swinging conditions.
Maybe Kohli is missing out by not facing Pakistan or maybe he would average 35 against them and he is in fact benefiting. We just don't know. Hopefully relations improve and we can see but sadly that doesn't look likely right now.
Kane is also missing out on not having a marque test series to play in.
Root and Kane both are disadvantaged by having weaker batting surrounding them. Can't be fun for them to always be coming in to face the new ball. It is a nice luxury to have a Pujara or Sharma in front of you depending on format and a bowling attack with strong pacers and spinners in all formats also.
I expect Smith, Kohli and Kane to all be ATG. Not entirely sold on Root yet and I never have been. Doesn't seem to have the mental strength of the others. Maybe he will prove me wrong.
Ab Fan
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Tests:-
Smith- 9.5
Kohli- 9
Kane- 8.75
Root- 8
ODIs+T20s:-
Smith- 7.5
Kane-8
Root-8
Kohli-9
Overall:-
Kohli- 9
Smith- 8.75
Kane- 8.4
Root- 8
That should give us an appropriate idea.
Smith- 9.5
Kohli- 9
Kane- 8.75
Root- 8
ODIs+T20s:-
Smith- 7.5
Kane-8
Root-8
Kohli-9
Overall:-
Kohli- 9
Smith- 8.75
Kane- 8.4
Root- 8
That should give us an appropriate idea.
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Ab Fan
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Tests given far more value, while T20s are negligible.
Joseph Gomes
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Smith was out of form in SA series, and he was always tired from workload.
As for luck, Smith has always beaten England to pulp everywhere, Anderson or not.
Kohli 9 and Smith 7.5 in ODIs+T20s, good joke. This is when one of them has scores of 106, 56*, 85 in 3 semi/final matches of world cup, while the other has record that reads 9,35,1,1 in semis/finals of world cups.
Smith has faced anderson at his peak in 2013, 2015 & 2017 and his avg against him is almost 80. If anything anderson is smith's bunny.
Hasan123
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Greatest batsmen of the generation outperformed by BJ Watling lol. I’m sorry but if Kohli had Williamson performances in this test, all we would hear about him choking etc. But I have heard nothing about Kane Williamson under performing. Kane Williamson hasn’t done much in England, South Africa, and India. Don’t get why people rate him so highly in tests.
I like Kane Williamson but I feel Pakistanis go OTT with their praise of him due to not wanting Kohli to be the number 1 batter and also due to Williamson scoring against us in the UAE. As I said he hasn’t done much in England, South Africa, and India.
I like Kane Williamson but I feel Pakistanis go OTT with their praise of him due to not wanting Kohli to be the number 1 batter and also due to Williamson scoring against us in the UAE. As I said he hasn’t done much in England, South Africa, and India.
Hasan123
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Average of 30 in England
Average of 35 in India
Average of 21 in South Africa
If that was Kohli, Indian, or player who wasn’t loved on PP it would be mocked at. But somehow Kane Williamson doesn’t not get any criticism for it. The weak team excuse doesn’t wash. I am not talking about winning games, but he should be performing better for someone who is rated so highly.
Kohli and Smith have dominated series away from home, for me they are clear of Williamson.
Average of 35 in India
Average of 21 in South Africa
If that was Kohli, Indian, or player who wasn’t loved on PP it would be mocked at. But somehow Kane Williamson doesn’t not get any criticism for it. The weak team excuse doesn’t wash. I am not talking about winning games, but he should be performing better for someone who is rated so highly.
Kohli and Smith have dominated series away from home, for me they are clear of Williamson.
Ab Fan
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Yes, because the chapter doesn't closes with those 3-4 innings only.
Look Kohli got two hundreds recently, it went unnoticed as this has become really so common now.
All in all, the best test batsmen will be Steven Smith but overall the best bat is Kohli followed by Smith and then Williamson followed by Root.
spiderreddy
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Your prediction came true
spiderreddy
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Hw about T20 WC semi finals and finals ?
Ab Fan
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Kane clearly not at the same level as Kohli and Smith as a batsmen. He doesnt have the hunger of runs as those two. Its his captaincy that elevates him from Root else not much to seperate.
Romali_rotti
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Smith is the greatest batsmen of his generation, followed very closely by Virat....
Unless Williamson scores hugely in the 2nd inns of this 2nd test & there by improve his stats massively, Smith is better to him . Kohli too has to make amends in the coming inns in WI to maintain his supremacy.
Kohli, Smith,Kane,Root in that order as of now.
Kohli, Smith,Kane,Root in that order as of now.
big_gamer007
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For me Smith is the best of this generation so far. He is slightly ahead of Kohli at this stage of their careers.
Hasan123
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Smith is much better than Williamson.
Aman
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Smith could retire today and he'd still be light years ahead.
Kohli/Smith is the real competition, those two are so far above everyone else. I've been saying this for over a year.
It's the big 2, nothing more.
Kohli/Smith is the real competition, those two are so far above everyone else. I've been saying this for over a year.
It's the big 2, nothing more.
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Why?
barah_admi
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In our darkest hour, Williamson is the hero we need but not the one we deserved.
BlueBeamer
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KOHLI is the best batsman of this era followed closely by Smith ONLY because of his test exploits.
Williamson and Root are some way behind and unless something dramatic happens, this is the way its going to be for the rest of their careers.
Williamson and Root are some way behind and unless something dramatic happens, this is the way its going to be for the rest of their careers.
Saying this kind of stuff is a bit pointless as it entirely depends on how one values each format which is personal and highly unlikely to change
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