Studying in the US

[BreadPakoda]

Hi guys,

I recently got an admit from an Ivy League (ranked in top 5) US Business School and received a full fee waiver from a top-12 US Business School.

While I am very much inclined to attend the Ivy league school (have paid the initial deposit), sitting here in India I am very not fully aware of the visa challenges and the changing immigration dynamics in the US. I am concerned about the huge loan that I need to take in case I do not get a scholarship.

Can we please keep this thread to track the US Visa policies for students/immigrants? Would appreciate if PPers in US could share their knowledge on the subject.

Thanks.

 

[Slog]

I am actually doing an MBA from such a school right now.

If you can somehow give me more specifics or have this on private chat mode right now I can give you more detailed advice.

 

[Slog]

All said and done.

Top 12 in the US is also amazing.

Without knowing specifics of your school choices and what sort of careers you would want to go into in the future, (and assuming both have strong pedigree in your targeted field) I would hands down take a full ride to a #12 ranked school (USNews) over a #5 one where I would pay full tuition.

Also... the issues you may face due to visas would be the same from both schools. Its not a school specific issue so even going to a HBS over lets say Fuqua doesnt make your H1B lottery chances any lower

Finally... A #12 school should/will have enough prestige outside the US for that to be not as big of an issue. Its really when you enter schools outside the top 20 where the international recognition of those MBAs reduces and your degree doesnt have as much worth outside the region where the school is strong at.

A full ride is a big deal and a huge burden off your shoulder esp when you are going to a top program anyway. It would be a different story if you had lets say a full ride to Rice and an offer from Columbia but thats not the case I assume. And even then many would pick Rice.

Only reason I would maybe bite the bullet and consider paying the full amount is if the top 5 school is a dream school of mine Ive always wanted to go to and not going is a decision I regret for rest of my life. Even then I wont be sure.

 

[USofA]

@OP, though I am no expert in visa issues, I do not foresee any issues if you can prove that you have the finance to take care of yourself and not become a burden to taxpayers.

As far as school choice goes, I would always pick the school where my tuition is paid for. It is very important that you get out of school without any debts. It will make a big difference as you start your career when there is no financial burden of student loan debt.

When I (and most employers) am looking to hire people, I always look for what that person can do for the company. Does he/she have the knowledge, talent to contribute to the growth of the company. What school the person went to, is pretty much an after thought.

 

[BreadPakoda]

All said and done.

Top 12 in the US is also amazing.

Without knowing specifics of your school choices and what sort of careers you would want to go into in the future, (and assuming both have strong pedigree in your targeted field) I would hands down take a full ride to a #12 ranked school (USNews) over a #5 one where I would pay full tuition.

Also... the issues you may face due to visas would be the same from both schools. Its not a school specific issue so even going to a HBS over lets say Fuqua doesnt make your H1B lottery chances any lower

Finally... A #12 school should/will have enough prestige outside the US for that to be not as big of an issue. Its really when you enter schools outside the top 20 where the international recognition of those MBAs reduces and your degree doesnt have as much worth outside the region where the school is strong at.

A full ride is a big deal and a huge burden off your shoulder esp when you are going to a top program anyway. It would be a different story if you had lets say a full ride to Rice and an offer from Columbia but thats not the case I assume. And even then many would pick Rice.

Only reason I would maybe bite the bullet and consider paying the full amount is if the top 5 school is a dream school of mine Ive always wanted to go to and not going is a decision I regret for rest of my life. Even then I wont be sure.

Thanks. Would love to have a chat with you in private mode. Not sure how to facilitate it though.

 

[BreadPakoda]

@OP, though I am no expert in visa issues, I do not foresee any issues if you can prove that you have the finance to take care of yourself and not become a burden to taxpayers.

As far as school choice goes, I would always pick the school where my tuition is paid for. It is very important that you get out of school without any debts. It will make a big difference as you start your career when there is no financial burden of student loan debt.

When I (and most employers) am looking to hire people, I always look for what that person can do for the company. Does he/she have the knowledge, talent to contribute to the growth of the company. What school the person went to, is pretty much an after thought.

Thanks for sharing your perspective.

I don't have sufficient money to fund my MBA. Its a USD200,000+ affair and I would pay it completely through loans. The average salary (including bonuses) is USD180,000+, however that's in the US. I am also considering Canada, UAE, and Singapore as safety locations, in case I am not allowed to stay in the US.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Does anyone know how the visa rules are expected to change in the coming months/years? I am hearing that student visa rules are expected to change.

 

[USofA]

Thanks for sharing your perspective.

I don't have sufficient money to fund my MBA. Its a USD200,000+ affair and I would pay it completely through loans. The average salary (including bonuses) is USD180,000+, however that's in the US. I am also considering Canada, UAE, and Singapore as safety locations, in case I am not allowed to stay in the US.

My un-solicited opinion is that it's not worth going into $200k in debt for an MBA. An MBA though better than just an Bachelors degree, does not add too much value when seeking employment.

 

[slipcatch]

Does anyone know how the visa rules are expected to change in the coming months/years? I am hearing that student visa rules are expected to change.

No significant change will take place in student visa.

Change will be only for immigrant visa.

 

[Pakistanian]

If money isn't a problem then go for the ivy league for name recognition and prestige but if it is an issue then go for the top-12 with a full ride, its still very prestigious and gonna be financially much smarter. Also you can put you scholarship on your resume.

 

[Napa]

Hi guys,

I recently got an admit from an Ivy League (ranked in top 5) US Business School and received a full fee waiver from a top-12 US Business School.

While I am very much inclined to attend the Ivy league school (have paid the initial deposit), sitting here in India I am very not fully aware of the visa challenges and the changing immigration dynamics in the US. I am concerned about the huge loan that I need to take in case I do not get a scholarship.

Can we please keep this thread to track the US Visa policies for students/immigrants? Would appreciate if PPers in US could share their knowledge on the subject.

Thanks.

The discounted lifetime earnings with a top 5 MBA program is about $10 M. For #12 it is about $7 M. Of course, even a #12 MBA can get you a job with McKinsey or Goldman, but it is much harder than it would be from #5. So you should choose #5 over #12 if the current difference is only $0.2 M.

 

[Mamoon]

Studying in the U.S. makes you realize why it is the greatest country in the world.

 

[Buffet]

If you can afford to pay half of it then go with Ivy otherwise stick with your second option. I don't know anything about immigration to add much value.

 

[Buffet]

The discounted lifetime earnings with a top 5 MBA program is about $10 M. For #12 it is about $7 M. Of course, even a #12 MBA can get you a job with McKinsey or Goldman, but it is much harder than it would be from #5. So you should choose #5 over #12 if the current difference is only $0.2 M.

Since he is not a US citizen, his equation may look different. Also, stress of carrying huge loan with possibility that you can't take job in US can be upsetting. That's what I have understood from OP's post.

 

[USofA]

Studying in the U.S. makes you realize why it is the greatest country in the world.

No question about it!

 

[Napa]

If you can afford to pay half of it then go with Ivy otherwise stick with your second option. I don't know anything about immigration to add much value.

A top 5 MBA program is essentially Stanford, Harvard, Chicago, Wharton or Kellogg/MIT. Only very very few grads from these programs will have difficulty repaying loans. A student applying from India who gets into one of these programs likely already has a stellar resume.

Besides money, there is also an intangible value in getting the job that you really want.

 

[Buffet]

A top 5 MBA program is essentially Stanford, Harvard, Chicago, Wharton or Kellogg/MIT. Only very very few grads from these programs will have difficulty repaying loans. A student applying from India who gets into one of these programs likely already has a stellar resume.

Besides money, there is also an intangible value in getting the job that you really want.

I don't know about this entire immigration stuff so recommended a safer option. I know several of my friends who graduated from Stanford, Harvard, Chicago etc. Not all of them are doing great financially.

Having said that if he was a US citizen, I would have suggested Ivy. I don't know about job prospect difference in India or outside of US when it comes to Ivy Vs other top ranked universities.

 

[BreadPakoda]

The discounted lifetime earnings with a top 5 MBA program is about $10 M. For #12 it is about $7 M. Of course, even a #12 MBA can get you a job with McKinsey or Goldman, but it is much harder than it would be from #5. So you should choose #5 over #12 if the current difference is only $0.2 M.

Thanks. Very insightful.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Thanks for all the replies guys. Last few days have been busy - spoke with a few more people to get more insights.

I declined the full-ride admit, and also cancelled one of the interview invites I received from another M7 as it was for their one-year MBA. I guess the 2-year thing (with internship) plus the university brand value is more important to me.

I look forward to matriculating next year. I will soon get my Canada PR (passport has gone for stamping) and will travel there to look out for pre-MBA internship opportunities.

 

[Slog]

What did you end up doing?

Also one thing I realize no one talked about is whether either of the MBAs were STEM certified thus giving you longer work authorization on OPT

 

[BreadPakoda]

What did you end up doing?

Also one thing I realize no one talked about is whether either of the MBAs were STEM certified thus giving you longer work authorization on OPT

I am studying at the higher ranked school. Also, almost all top MBAs are STEM certified these days.

 

[Napa]

I am studying at the higher ranked school. Also, almost all top MBAs are STEM certified these days.

Congratulations on your choice. And good luck with the placements

 

[Slog]

I am studying at the higher ranked school. Also, almost all top MBAs are STEM certified these days.

A lot got certified in the past 6-12 months but wasn’t the case when the thread was made. With STEM it was even more safer bet to go to the better ranked school

 

[BreadPakoda]

Congratulations on your choice. And good luck with the placements

Thank you.

A lot got certified in the past 6-12 months but wasn’t the case when the thread was made. With STEM it was even more safer bet to go to the better ranked school

That’s actually right. Tbh a lot has changed for me over the last few months and I’m not even sure if I even want to work in the US anymore. I’m getting more inclined towards going for a more relaxed life. Not sure if I’ll get that in the US, especially with the round the clock visa concerns. Let’s see.

 

[Slog]

Thank you.



That’s actually right. Tbh a lot has changed for me over the last few months and I’m not even sure if I even want to work in the US anymore. I’m getting more inclined towards going for a more relaxed life. Not sure if I’ll get that in the US, especially with the round the clock visa concerns. Let’s see.

One of my friends recruited for London and he had such a chill summer internship while I was clocking 80+ hour weeks on regular basis. I think UK and London are definitely better from work life balance perspective and uncertainty of visa isn’t as much either once you have something in hand. In the US it’s never ending battle especially for Indians.

Either way if you plan to not work in US long term then going for the top 5 MBA is an even better decision.

Finally. If you plan to go back to india; I wild encourage atleast a couple of years of experience in the US. It will be invaluable. From my MBA program a few indian albums have gone back after 5-6 years and are doing superbly well. But I see that almost all of them got some US work experience on the resume.

Hopefully COVID hasn’t impacted plans too much.

Anyways you clearly are a smart guy if you got on a top program and will figure out things. Good luck!

 

[BreadPakoda]

One of my friends recruited for London and he had such a chill summer internship while I was clocking 80+ hour weeks on regular basis. I think UK and London are definitely better from work life balance perspective and uncertainty of visa isn’t as much either once you have something in hand. In the US it’s never ending battle especially for Indians.

Either way if you plan to not work in US long term then going for the top 5 MBA is an even better decision.

Finally. If you plan to go back to india; I wild encourage atleast a couple of years of experience in the US. It will be invaluable. From my MBA program a few indian albums have gone back after 5-6 years and are doing superbly well. But I see that almost all of them got some US work experience on the resume.

Hopefully COVID hasn’t impacted plans too much.

Anyways you clearly are a smart guy if you got on a top program and will figure out things. Good luck!

Thank you for the advice and the wishes. I don’t have any plans to move back to India. However, I’m evaluating Canada/UK, Europe. I totally agree with you that the top brand would help me outside the US (though not very sure whether it will help me in Canada) and I’m happy that I didn’t get influenced by the scholarship.

 

[BreadPakoda]

COVID has impacted recruiting and also destroyed the MBA experience. No travel and very limited opportunities for networking.

 

[prakash]

You are just starting your career, why do you want to chill? Clock 80+ hours for few years and make your next move. See if you can work in US for 2/3 years and then decide on UK or India. The contacts you get and the rigor you go through will be invaluable.

 

[BreadPakoda]

You are just starting your career, why do you want to chill? Clock 80+ hours for few years and make your next move. See if you can work in US for 2/3 years and then decide on UK or India. The contacts you get and the rigor you go through will be invaluable.

Thank you for the advice.
I do realize that the rigor would be very beneficial for my career but I’m prioritizing family and health over it.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Wow, some very smart posters on this this forum. Congrats to [MENTION=146594]BreadPakoda[/MENTION] and [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] for getting admissions into Top 5 schools.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Wow, some very smart posters on this this forum. Congrats to [MENTION=146594]BreadPakoda[/MENTION] and [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] for getting admissions into Top 5 schools.

Thank you!