Success of tried and tested failures in Quaid-e-Azam Trophy points to Pakistan's batting malaise

[Slog]

TTFs= Tried and Tested Failures.

While I admit its harsh to call some like Umar Amin, and Fawad Alam TTF's but others like Kamran Akmal, Faisal Iqbal, Khalid Latif and the legendary Imran Farhat have been huge failures in most of the matches they played for Pakistan, undeservedly.

However they seemed to have done well in the FC season. Averages of some of these batsmen are as follows:


Umar Amin : 50.61 (2nd highest run scorer)
Kamran Akmal: 60.00
Khalif Latif: 56.25
Fawad Alam: 56.00
Faisal Iqbal: 49.00
Sohaib Maqsood: 47.00
Shahzaib Hasan: 45.5
Sharjeel Khan: 45.33
Nauman Anwar: 43.42
Imran Farhat: 43.12
Awais Zia: 42.00

Asides from Shahzaib Hasan, and Awais Zia, these guys played majority of the season too which is all the more worrying because the stats aren't inflated or skewed. They are among the top averages over the season if we put the number of matches played cutoff at 5 or 6.

It is worrying for me that they have done so well despite absolutely being like deer in the headlights scenario for them, as far as international cricket was concerned. It is safe to call half of them hacks.

Even more worrying for me is 'talents' like Umar Akmal, and Sami Aslam averaging in the low to mid 30s, and managing a grand total of one century put together. This is despite both of them playing 7 matches each which is a more than the average (10 is a full season).

Finally, the other great performers in the season are as follows (Season Average, Career FC average, Age):

Asif Zakir : 56.5, 35.2, 32 yrs
Akbar ur Rehman:58.5 38.2, 32 years
Zain Abbas: 45.6, 31.24, 24 yrs
Mohammad Waqas: 56.8 48, 28 yrs

None of them are really youngsters and have mediocre FC record apart from maybe Mohammad Waqar which shows that this was likely a fluke-ish season.

Apart from Babar Azam, who was doing well before being called up for Pakistan, no upcoming player (under 23) really impressed a lot with the bat.

Out batting reserves are at an all time low and things dont look good.

 

[Ahson8]

How is Nauman Anwar a TTF lol ? Played just one T20 and did alright before being unfairly dropped.
Umar Siddiq and Saud Shakeel are two youngsters who did do well.

I do have some hopes from Amin. He's failed so far but he's still young and who knows, he can turn things around.

As for Farhat, Latif, Awais, they definitely are TTF's amd domestic bullies, yeah.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

Agree with OP. Batting reserves are low. No Masiah in sight. Will have to make do with what we have. It won't be pretty.

I think our selectors will be well advised to stick to a few rather than chopping /changing.

 

[Abdul]

How is Nauman Anwar a TTF lol ? Played just one T20 and did alright before being unfairly dropped.
Umar Siddiq and Saud Shakeel are two youngsters who did do well.

I do have some hopes from Amin. He's failed so far but he's still young and who knows, he can turn things around.

As for Farhat, Latif, Awais, they definitely are TTF's amd domestic bullies, yeah.

Exactly - I was thinking the same thing regarding Nauman Anwar;

Also as you mentioned - Umar Amin has the capability to turn the things around.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

The biggest positives of this season are

Saud Shakeel
Nauman Anwar
Abid Ali
Amad Butt
Hassan Ali

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Agree with OP. Batting reserves are low. No Masiah in sight. Will have to make do with what we have. It won't be pretty.

I think our selectors will be well advised to stick to a few rather than chopping /changing.

Look at what Abid Ali and Saud Shakeel have achieved in their first FC seasons as 19 and 20 years old.

 

[Slog]

How is Nauman Anwar a TTF lol ? Played just one T20 and did alright before being unfairly dropped.
Umar Siddiq and Saud Shakeel are two youngsters who did do well.

I do have some hopes from Amin. He's failed so far but he's still young and who knows, he can turn things around.

As for Farhat, Latif, Awais, they definitely are TTF's amd domestic bullies, yeah.

Nauman Anwar is an exception I guess but way to sidetrack the topic lol.

In either case he is definitely not ever going to be a top batsmen and has an average overall record so I think it relates to my overall point. These guys arent extraordinary talents and definitely wont be top international level batsmen. Yet they are dominating domestic cricket.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

Look at what Abid Ali and Saud Shakeel have achieved in their first FC seasons as 19 and 20 years old.

Yes but not ready for NZ/Australia/England - hence reserves low at the moment.

Unless you think otherwise?

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Nauman Anwar is an exception I guess but way to sidetrack the topic lol.

In either case he is definitely not ever going to be a top batsmen and has an average overall record so I think it relates to my overall point. These guys arent extraordinary talents and definitely wont be top international level batsmen. Yet they are dominating domestic cricket.

Nauman Anwar's first FC hundred is a score of 199.

No every player starts firing from there first game onwards.

Even Babar Azam who is rated highly by majority took 17 , 18 Fc ganes to score his first FC hundred and was averaging 28 or 30 by than.

 

[Slog]

Nauman Anwar's first FC hundred is a score of 199.

No every player starts firing from there first game onwards.

Even Babar Azam who is rated highly by majority took 17 , 18 Fc ganes to score his first FC hundred and was averaging 28 or 30 by than.

His FC average is 31.00 though

And no. This is not his first season

 

[Hawkeye]

Umar Amin
Saud Shakeel

These are class batsmen. Destined to succeed.

Nauam Anwar is okay, need to see and test him more.

 

[Hawkeye]

Nauman Anwar's first FC hundred is a score of 199.

No every player starts firing from there first game onwards.

Even Babar Azam who is rated highly by majority took 17 , 18 Fc ganes to score his first FC hundred and was averaging 28 or 30 by than.

Babar Azam has always been very poor in FC cricket.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Yes but not ready for NZ/Australia/England - hence reserves low at the moment.

Unless you think otherwise?

Yes they are not ready yet.

But players like Naeemuddin opener and Umar Amin middle order are ready to be 16th and 17th member of squad and be backup for main players. In fact if Naeemuddin can pass fitness test he can be the opener in first test in England provided he does well in 3 Fc and 2 warm up ganes on England tour.

Whereas Umar Amin can replace any injured or severely out of form middle order player on that tour.

 

[WC-Passion]

Domestic bullies that's all. Not sure about Sami Aslam, but Umar is known for his temperament problems and not ability which is the reason why he's averaging around the low 30 mark and maybe even the high 20's. He gets starts and has the talent but he gives it away because he lacks patience.

 

[Abdul]

The bandwagon of 'hamaray mulk mai bohat talent hy' does not seem to have much weight to it.

 

[Slog]

Domestic bullies that's all. Not sure about Sami Aslam, but Umar is known for his temperament problems and not ability which is the reason why he's averaging around the low 30 mark and maybe even the high 20's. He gets starts and has the talent but he gives it away because he lacks patience.

talent ka kya achaar daalain?

An outrageously talented guy averaging 30 over a long period time and a mediocre guy averaging 30 over a long period of time offer you the same utility and output

 

[WC-Passion]

talent ka kya achaar daalain?

An outrageously talented guy averaging 30 over a long period time and a mediocre guy averaging 30 over a long period of time offer you the same utility and output

Exactly, That's why he's only in the T20 team, it's not really that difficult to understand.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

His FC average is 31.00 though

And no. This is not his first season

He has just played 8 Fc games.

I rate Babar Azam , Nauman Anwar and Ahsan Ali very highly. Because they are Yamin players and have got a wide short range. Aren't one dimensional. I am not concerned about there averages on these surfaces plus the fact that some youngsters do take sometime to kick-start in Fc or international cricket. After 23 Fc games the same Babar Azam now averages 39-40. International career did not start brightly for Saeed Anwar and Atapattu but eventually they did deliver.

Nauman may not be successful in test cricket but he can definitely be successful in T20 and Odi cricket as opener and he cannot ne labelled TTF.

If he can transform his attitude and aggression like Warner did than he can succeed in longer format aswell.

But personally I rate Ahsan Ali more due to his composure , style and I believe He and Saud are the best product of Karachi cricket. Yes I am very Dissapointing with below average performances of Ahsan Ali this season but from what I have seen and judged he has got in him to rise from this failure. Somebody who scores a double hundred as his first fc hundred playing for a department at the age of 19 definitely has something in him. He also played for Pakistan under 19 team. So I won't be flustered by him averaging just 26 after 11 Fc games because same was the case with Babar Azam aswell at that stage. Just hope he gets persisted with.

And Zeeshan Malik and Abid Ali are also bright young talents especially Zeeshan Malik whom I have seen batting. While Abid had a very good first FC season.

 

[Ahson8]

He has just played 8 Fc games.

I rate Babar Azam , Nauman Anwar and Ahsan Ali very highly. Because they are Yamin players and have got a wide short range. Aren't one dimensional. I am not concerned about there averages on these surfaces plus the fact that some youngsters do take sometime to kick-start in Fc or international cricket. After 23 Fc games the same Babar Azam now averages 39-40. International career did not start brightly for Saeed Anwar and Atapattu but eventually they did deliver.

Nauman may not be successful in test cricket but he can definitely be successful in T20 and Odi cricket as opener and he cannot ne labelled TTF.

If he can transform his attitude and aggression like Warner did than he can succeed in longer format aswell.

But personally I rate Ahsan Ali more due to his composure , style and I believe He and Saud are the best product of Karachi cricket. Yes I am very Dissapointing with below average performances of Ahsan Ali this season but from what I have seen and judged he has got in him to rise from this failure. Somebody who scores a double hundred as his first fc hundred playing for a department at the age of 19 definitely has something in him. He also played for Pakistan under 19 team. So I won't be flustered by him averaging just 26 after 11 Fc games because same was the case with Babar Azam aswell at that stage. Just hope he gets persisted with.

And Zeeshan Malik and Abid Ali are also bright young talents especially Zeeshan Malik whom I have seen batting. While Abid had a very good first FC season.

Lol what ? They are Yamin players ? XD

I'm guessing you meant young.

 

[Ahson8]

Nauman Anwar is an exception I guess but way to sidetrack the topic lol.

In either case he is definitely not ever going to be a top batsmen and has an average overall record so I think it relates to my overall point. These guys arent extraordinary talents and definitely wont be top international level batsmen. Yet they are dominating domestic cricket.

To be fair he's still young in his domestic career and it's a bit too early to predict anything about him yet.

Yeah there are quite a few TTF's domimqting the domestic season but there are 4-5 good young batsmen who did well. Saud Shakeel, Umar Siddiq, Nauman Anwar, Babar Azam (whenever he played) and Saifullah Bangash.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

A player who has got good technique, good range of shots and a good temperament will eventually deliver even if his domestic numbers aren't good in first 15 , 20 games.

Young babar azam scored a lovely hundred against Australian test pace attack batting with Haris Sohail. Haris at that time had Fc average of 50 while Babar was averaging 32 34 at that time in Fc cricket but he delivered and both scored hundreds.

Umar Amin in his first FC season averaged 49.5 . In his second Fc season e averaged 46.04 . But than he fell apart and he was averaging 34 overall in Fc cricket till last year but now he averages around 40.

Some players have a poor Fc career start but they pick up. Some have a great Fc career start but they fell apart.


So it doesn't make the player a bad prospect or a great prospect after just 8, 11 or 15 Fc games.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

To be fair he's still young in his domestic career and it's a bit too early to predict anything about him yet.

Yeah there are quite a few TTF's domimqting the domestic season but there are 4-5 good young batsmen who did well. Saud Shakeel, Umar Siddiq, Nauman Anwar, Babar Azam (whenever he played) and Saifullah Bangash.

Abid Ali of islamabad scored 548 runs at an average of 49.8 with 2 hundreds in his first FC season at the official age of 19,20.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

He has just played 8 Fc games.

I rate Babar Azam , Nauman Anwar and Ahsan Ali very highly. Because they are Yamin players and have got a wide short range. Aren't one dimensional. I am not concerned about there averages on these surfaces plus the fact that some youngsters do take sometime to kick-start in Fc or international cricket. After 23 Fc games the same Babar Azam now averages 39-40. International career did not start brightly for Saeed Anwar and Atapattu but eventually they did deliver.

Nauman may not be successful in test cricket but he can definitely be successful in T20 and Odi cricket as opener and he cannot ne labelled TTF.

If he can transform his attitude and aggression like Warner did than he can succeed in longer format aswell.

But personally I rate Ahsan Ali more due to his composure , style and I believe He and Saud are the best product of Karachi cricket. Yes I am very Dissapointing with below average performances of Ahsan Ali this season but from what I have seen and judged he has got in him to rise from this failure. Somebody who scores a double hundred as his first fc hundred playing for a department at the age of 19 definitely has something in him. He also played for Pakistan under 19 team. So I won't be flustered by him averaging just 26 after 11 Fc games because same was the case with Babar Azam aswell at that stage. Just hope he gets persisted with.

And Zeeshan Malik and Abid Ali are also bright young talents especially Zeeshan Malik whom I have seen batting. While Abid had a very good first FC season.

* Not Yamin

Dynamic

 

[Hawkeye]

You indeed look for range of shots, timing and temperament.

Amin
Saud
Sami
Babar

Three of them showed very good glimpses in internationals, while the 4th Saud has yet to play.

Won't be bothered about FC averages, but at times they can reflect the 'current form' of a player.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

TTFs= Tried and Tested Failures.

While I admit its harsh to call some like Umar Amin, and Fawad Alam TTF's but others like Kamran Akmal, Faisal Iqbal, Khalid Latif and the legendary Imran Farhat have been huge failures in most of the matches they played for Pakistan, undeservedly.

However they seemed to have done well in the FC season. Averages of some of these batsmen are as follows:


Umar Amin : 50.61 (2nd highest run scorer)
Kamran Akmal: 60.00
Khalif Latif: 56.25
Fawad Alam: 56.00
Faisal Iqbal: 49.00
Sohaib Maqsood: 47.00
Shahzaib Hasan: 45.5
Sharjeel Khan: 45.33
Nauman Anwar: 43.42
Imran Farhat: 43.12
Awais Zia: 42.00

Asides from Shahzaib Hasan, and Awais Zia, these guys played majority of the season too which is all the more worrying because the stats aren't inflated or skewed. They are among the top averages over the season if we put the number of matches played cutoff at 5 or 6.

It is worrying for me that they have done so well despite absolutely being like deer in the headlights scenario for them, as far as international cricket was concerned. It is safe to call half of them hacks.

Even more worrying for me is 'talents' like Umar Akmal, and Sami Aslam averaging in the low to mid 30s, and managing a grand total of one century put together. This is despite both of them playing 7 matches each which is a more than the average (10 is a full season).

Finally, the other great performers in the season are as follows (Season Average, Career FC average, Age):

Asif Zakir : 56.5, 35.2, 32 yrs
Akbar ur Rehman:58.5 38.2, 32 years
Zain Abbas: 45.6, 31.24, 24 yrs
Mohammad Waqas: 56.8 48, 28 yrs

None of them are really youngsters and have mediocre FC record apart from maybe Mohammad Waqar which shows that this was likely a fluke-ish season.

Apart from Babar Azam, who was doing well before being called up for Pakistan, no upcoming player (under 23) really impressed a lot with the bat.

Out batting reserves are at an all time low and things dont look good.

Yes, this clearly shows we have talent that keeps being recycled over and over.

We have lots of recyclable talent.

 

[in_cutter]

Well, looks like batting talent has well & truly dried up. Sad.

 

[MMHS]

I think Babar, Saud or Amin are similar type of touch players, whose game is built on top hand. Amin is playing well this season, but overall his average is not that impressive (still I think it'll cross 40 after this winter). Biggest problem for these players are PAK domestic wickets - all 3 are high back-lift player with great timing & placement, these wickets are not ideal for these players. I think, this QA tourmanemt, Saud has batted highest numbers of balls, but his SR must be lower than his average of 48+, which indicates that with his tecehnique, he is surviving for longer hours, but can't score faster for the slowness of wicket or out-field.

This could result in to Saud being dropped from slow scoring or turning into a bottom-handed slogger, who is trying to hit too hard. Last winter, he played List A on good batting wickets of FEB/MAR & I think score 2 or 3 hundreds, when he was probably genuine 19. It's essential that Saud & Babar stop playing PAK domestic (or limit their presence) & find some League teams in UK during summer & in AUS/SAF in winter, otherwise I see Saud turning into a Taufque Umar & Babar into a Salim Elahi.

 

[Relapse]

I hope Pakistan never commits the mistake of letting Amin back in the team again.

 

[Legbreak]

Tullebaaz hacks like sharjeel and shahzaib are averaging close to 50 for goodness sake )

Looks like batting reserves aren't the only thing drying up

 

[ChachaCricket]

This is what happens there is too much quantity but little quality.

Cut down the teams to 10 with the top 150 players and watch those averages drop.

 

[Couch Cricketer]

With batsman having to face 1 good bowler in a team. Unlikely to improve our cricket quality or better batsman.
Even the bowlers are not really good as they have been taking wickets of avg batsman who don't price their wickets much.
Most of our great players in the yesteryears were groomed in professional systems of county cricket. Wasim and Waqar played against players like Lara in county cricket.


Sent from my SM-G925I

 

[uberkoen]

They need to start using leagues and only allow 8 teams in the top league. Increase the competition a bit and threaten poor performing teams with relegation.

 

[sunnykhan]

Awais Zia doesn't open in FC and List-A as he does in T20s. He comes in middle order when the ball is usually old and scoring runs is not much of a problem.

Kamran Akmal also plays at #5 or #6 but soon you will see his interview to open for pakistan on the basis of his performance in middle order .

 

[carbon11]

Again this what happens when you have to many teams and players, crap pitches and rubbish local balls

Lots of batsmen and bowlers in defunct system get good averages even though they are not intl material or fc material but club level league cricketers

When the fc cricket is reduced to league level non pro level , and then 4/5 teams are made at pro level where the best only play and the non pro league acting as a feeder system just like South Africa and Australia then we can expect decent players

 

[JibranAnsari]

How are shahzaub hasan , nauman anwar and fawad alam ttfs?

 

[Dr_Bassim]

How are shahzaub hasan , nauman anwar and fawad alam ttfs?

I am surprised you mentioned Fawad.

The last tour of Australia was as easy as it gets for him in UAE and he still found a way to not score

 

[JibranAnsari]

I am surprised you mentioned Fawad.

The last tour of Australia was as easy as it gets for him in UAE and he still found a way to not score

Well he has succeeded more than he has failed so not a ttf yet.

 

[Slog]

What's the update this season?