The 100 Greatest Cricketers - Geoff Armstrong

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Geoff Armstrong has worked as a writer, editor and publisher on more than 70 books on sport—over 30 of them on cricket alone. Between 1993 and 2005, he collaborated with Steve Waugh on each of Steve’s 12 best-selling books, including Steve’s autobiography Out of My Comfort Zone.

Geoff is the author of A Century of Summers, the centenary history of the Sheffield Shield and ESPN’s Legends of Cricket which profiles 25 of the game’s greatest players. He has worked on books with Mike Whitney, David Boon, Merv Hughes, Justin Langer, Ian Healy, Michael Slater, Bob Simpson, Neil Marks, Michael Bevan and Geoff Lawson. Geoff is also the co-author of Phar Lap the definitive biography of the legendary racehorse.

This debatable book The 100 Greatest Cricketers was released in 2007 where he come up with a list of the best players of all time, places them in nine teams, and then nominated his favorite all-time player Doug Walters as the '100th man'.


The 1st XI: WG Grace, Jack Hobbs, Don Bradman, Sachin Tendulkar, Graeme Pollock, Garry Sobers, Adam Gilchrist, Imran Khan, Malcolm Marshall, Shane Warne and Sydney Barnes.


The 2nd XI: Len Hutton, Victor Trumper, Viv Richards, Wally Hammond, Brian Lara, Ian Botham, Alan Knott, Richard Hadlee, Dennis Lillee, Fred Spofforth, and Muttiah Muralitharan.


The 3rd XI: Sunil Gavaskar, Herbert Sutcliffe, George Headley, Greg Chappell, Frank Worrell, Kapil Dev, Wasim Akram, Jack Blackham, George Lohmann, Bill O'Reilly and Glenn McGrath.


The 4rth XI: Archie MacLaren, Clyde Walcott, Everton Weekes, Allan Border, Steve Waugh, Keith Miller, Wilfred Rhodes, Alan Davidson, Jim Laker, Godfrey Evans and Curtly Ambrose.


The 5th XI: Barry Richards, Arthur Shrewsbury, Ricky Ponting, KS Ranjitsinhji, Denis Compton, Frank Woolley, Richie Benaud, Syed Kirmani, Ray Lindwall, Fred Trueman and Alec Bedser.


The 6th XI: Virender Sehwag, Geoff Boycott, Rahul Dravid, Charlie Macartney, Javed Miandad, Mike Procter, Les Ames, Harold Larwood, Joel Garner, Bishan Bedi and Bhagwat Chandrasekhar.


The 7th XI: Bob Simpson, Matthew Hayden, Rohan Kanhai, Neil Harvey, Ken Barrington, Monty Noble, Johnny Briggs, Wasim Bari, Andy Roberts, Michael Holding and Charlie Turner.


The 8th XI: Graham Gooch, Billy Murdoch, Clem Hill, Peter May, Dudley Nourse, Jacques Kallis, Ian Healy, Hugh Trumble, Fazal Mahmood, John Snow and Waqar Younis.


The 9th XI: Stan McCabe, Herbie Taylor, Vijay Hazare, Clive Lloyd, Inzamam-ul-Haq, Andy Flower, Andrew Flintoff, Bill Lockwood, Jeff Thomson, Tom Richardson and Arthur Mailey.



IMHO there are lot of great players missing in these XI's while some who don't even deserve to be in top 200 are there... Discuss!
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Another disappointing thread for our simpleminded tendulkar haters.

Very accurate formations though.
 
My XI would be -

Gavaskar
Hobbs
IVA Richards (Difficult choice between IVA and Bradman)
Tendulkar
Lara
Sobers
Gilchrist
Imran (C)
Warne
Marshall
McGrath
 
Totally biased selection, I mean even no bodies like Stan McCabe, Herbie Taylor, Billy Murdoch, Arthur Shrewsbury are all selected ahead of Mohammed Hafeez?? yeh bet none of them would have been selected either if they were born in Sargodha.
 
Best XI would be:

M Hafeez
Len Hutton
Don Bradman
Viv Richards
Brian Lara
Imran Khan
Wasim Bari
Wasim Akram
Waqar Younis
Abdul Qadir
Malcolm Marshall

12th man: Tanveer Ahmad (come on you have to have one or two si-farshi players in there)
 
Good teams but who is the 100th man? Don Bradman? Geoff Armstrong has actually commited a major crime by not including the Real Don :farhat and Sir Jadeja.
 
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Good team but who is the 100th man? Don Bradman? Geoff Armstrong has actually commited a major crime by not including the Real Don :farhat and Sir Jadeja.

Forgot to mention his name in OP well he nominated Doug Walters as 100th man...
 
Another disappointing thread for our simpleminded tendulkar haters.

Very accurate formations though.

These experts all around the world don't understand the point which stats prove, that Tendulkar wasn't a "match winner", and hence not a great.

Wait, you don't believe me.. give me 2 days time and I can come up with all kinds of charts and graphs (which no one else will care or try understand) to prove my theory.
 
A lot of bias in the lists but i'm sure everyone has that in their All-time XI.
 
The 1st XI: WG Grace, Jack Hobbs, Don Bradman, Sachin Tendulkar, Graeme Pollock, Garry Sobers, Adam Gilchrist, Imran Khan, Malcolm Marshall, Shane Warne and Sydney Barnes.


The 2nd XI: Len Hutton, Victor Trumper, Viv Richards, Wally Hammond, Brian Lara, Ian Botham, Alan Knott, Richard Hadlee, Dennis Lillee, Fred Spofforth, and Muttiah Muralitharan.


The 3rd XI: Sunil Gavaskar, Herbert Sutcliffe, George Headley, Greg Chappell, Frank Worrell, Kapil Dev, Wasim Akram, Jack Blackham, George Lohmann, Bill O'Reilly and Glenn McGrath.


The 4rth XI: Archie MacLaren, Clyde Walcott, Everton Weekes, Allan Border, Steve Waugh, Keith Miller, Wilfred Rhodes, Alan Davidson, Jim Laker, Godfrey Evans and Curtly Ambrose.

I think these are about right, though I'd put Keith Miller in the 2nd XI and drop Botham and Kapil down one each.

I think Pollock is a bit over-rated so I'd stick Sir Viv up a team to come in behind Sir Don.

I don't understand the respect for Trumper who was not much at test level - sort of an earlier Graeme Hick - so Sunny gets promoted.
 
What Bias are the Pak fans complaining about ? I think apart from Imran no Pakistani deserves to be in the premier All Time Test Eleven anyways .
 
sehwag and miandad equally great?

surprised to see wasim bari there

was he that good?

bring saeed ajmal in :ajmal
 
Do we really need a thread every time a bloke who may or may not have written some books in his time formulates his own XI? An opinion is an opinion, let's just leave it that.
We should have one big mega thread where people can post their own XI :facepalm:
 
Sehwag is soo underrated. People really don't have an idea about what it takes to average 50 with 80+ SR in tests.. that too for an opener.
 
Basically,a great piece of work which superbly elaborates it's viewpoint on the greatness of each player.What I appreciate it that it does not show bias towards Australian players like John Woodcock and Cristopher Martin Jenkins revealed for their own English cricketers .Kapil Dev is rated above Keith Miller (because of making a greater international impact ),Malcolm Marshall and Sydney Barnes are rated above Dennis Lillee,Sunil Gavaskar is ahead of Greg Chappell,Wasim Akram ahead of Glen Mcgrath ,Curtly Amrose above Ray Lindwall and Andy Roberts and Michael Holding above Jeff Thomson.It illustrates his fairness.I applaud is including of Rohan Kanhai at one down in an xi who is correctly rated above Peter May.Somehow I feel Armstrong missed out on Ted Dexter and placed Barry Richards too low.Barry should atleast have been in the 2nd xi with his ability to destroy bowling.I also wish he had placed Gary Sobers at one and arguably W.G.Grace at 2.I also fell Viv Richards and Denis Lillee were unfairly relegated from the 1st xi who should have replaced Pollock and Barnes.

I really liked his assesmemt of Marshall and Lillee as bowlers,Tendulkar and Viv Richards as batsmen and Grace,Sobers,Imran and Botham as all-round cricketers.It is fascinating that he ranks Imran Khan above Jack Hobbs,Sachin Tendulkar and Viv Richards.It is interesting how he evaluates Greg Chappell ahead of Ricky Ponting and Alan Border.His explanation was the relative bating averages of Greg were better than any batsman of his era.

Overall one of the most original books .The most fascinating choices are those of Kapil Dev above Keith Miller,Frank Worrell ahead of George Headley,Holding and Andy Roberts in a dead heat and Imran Knah above Hobbs and Tendulkar.Personally I would still place Jack Hobbs ahead of Imran Khan and Brian Lara ahead of Graeme Pollock.
 
When Warne and Barnes are infront of Muralidaran as spinners, I stop reading the lists.
 
Sorry,I forgot. A major error like past writers Woodcock,Jenkins etc is Armstrong's evaluation of Jacques Kallis,so low.Kallis is rated around 80 th position and not classed with Sobers,Imran,Hadlee,Botham and Kapil Dev or Keith Miller.Morally Kallis should be rated as a cricketer atleast ahead of Kapil Dev and atleast in the 3rd or 4th 11.Armstrong has not evaluated the era of Kalllis ,who edges Imran or Botham as a pure all-rounder.I agree being a great captain and bigger match-winner Imran ws a better cricketer overall.
 
Another disappointing thread for our simpleminded tendulkar haters.

Very accurate formations though.

These experts all around the world don't understand the point which stats prove, that Tendulkar wasn't a "match winner", and hence not a great.

Wait, you don't believe me.. give me 2 days time and I can come up with all kinds of charts and graphs (which no one else will care or try understand) to prove my theory.

Again Tendulkar debate? C'mon man not even a single poster in this thread said anything against Tendulkar but i think another debate will start and thread will be derailed with replies like this thn instead of discussing other 99 players the whole focus will be on 1 player...


I think these are about right, though I'd put Keith Miller in the 2nd XI and drop Botham and Kapil down one each.

I think Pollock is a bit over-rated so I'd stick Sir Viv up a team to come in behind Sir Don.

I don't understand the respect for Trumper who was not much at test level - sort of an earlier Graeme Hick - so Sunny gets promoted.

Agree with you here Viv should be in first XI
 
I really liked his assesmemt of Marshall and Lillee as bowlers,Tendulkar and Viv Richards as batsmen and Grace,Sobers,Imran and Botham as all-round cricketers.It is fascinating that he ranks Imran Khan above Jack Hobbs,Sachin Tendulkar and Viv Richards.It is interesting how he evaluates Greg Chappell ahead of Ricky Ponting and Alan Border.His explanation was the relative bating averages of Greg were better than any batsman of his era.

Have you read the book? Can you mention the ranks of players of his first XI?


Sorry,I forgot. A major error like past writers Woodcock,Jenkins etc is Armstrong's evaluation of Jacques Kallis,so low.Kallis is rated around 80 th position and not classed with Sobers,Imran,Hadlee,Botham and Kapil Dev or Keith Miller.Morally Kallis should be rated as a cricketer atleast ahead of Kapil Dev and atleast in the 3rd or 4th 11.Armstrong has not evaluated the era of Kalllis ,who edges Imran or Botham as a pure all-rounder.I agree being a great captain and bigger match-winner Imran ws a better cricketer overall.

Actually that's because the book was published in 2007 there is a updated and revised edition of this book released in 2009 i just checked and someone mentioned that Kallis moved up in the list while Flintoff is removed from Top 100 in updated edition.
 
Sorry,I forgot. A major error like past writers Woodcock,Jenkins etc is Armstrong's evaluation of Jacques Kallis,so low.Kallis is rated around 80 th position and not classed with Sobers,Imran,Hadlee,Botham and Kapil Dev or Keith Miller..

A lot of scholars of the game do not rate Kallis.
 
Yeah, on the strength of some more telling performances with the bat in the last few years, I think.
 
Again Tendulkar debate? C'mon man not even a single poster in this thread said anything against Tendulkar but i think another debate will start and thread will be derailed with replies like this thn instead of discussing other 99 players the whole focus will be on 1 player...

You must be pretending to not know that it will eventually happen.. freelance just set the tone for it.. what is wrong in that ?

Just because Tendulkar is discussed in every thread, it means he should not be discussed one more time ?
 
You must be pretending to not know that it will eventually happen.. freelance just set the tone for it.. what is wrong in that ?

Just because Tendulkar is discussed in every thread, it means he should not be discussed one more time ?

ok let me to ask the mods to remove other 99 players from the OP thn...
 
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ok let me to ask the mods to remove other 99 players from the OP thn...

You may decide to do anything you want, but please do not stop others from discussing the player they want to discuss .. and the thread is relevant to the player, as he is in the list. We didn't derail the thread.

Just because you don't want the discussion about some players, doesn't mean everyone else will avoid discusssing him. It is immaterial if he has been already discussed many times.

I or freelance did not ask anyone to not discuss the player they want to. So not sure what you mean.
 
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You may decide to do anything you want, but please do not stop others from discussing the player they want to discuss .. and the thread is relevant to the player, as he is in the list. We didn't derail the thread.

Just because you don't want the discussion about some players, doesn't mean everyone else will avoid discusssing him. It is immaterial if he has been already discussed many times.

I or freelance did not ask anyone to not discuss the player they want to. So not sure what you mean.

I got no problem you can discuss it but i just don't want another thread derailed or another thread turned into Tendulkar Lovers v Tendulkar Hater because thn the whole topic of the thread will be changed...

What more you can expect from me when the first reply in the threads is:

Another disappointing thread for our simpleminded tendulkar haters.

Very accurate formations though.
 
I got no problem you can discuss it but i just don't want another thread derailed or another thread turned into Tendulkar Lovers v Tendulkar Hater because thn the whole topic of the thread will be changed...

What more you can expect from me when the first reply in the threads is:

Whether one likes it or not, on this forum and elsewhere, Tendulkar is the most discussed icon..

His greatness is questioned by many stat-experts, and if he keeps appearing in many ATG lists, it does not go well with many people who don't think he is that good, but that is fair enough.

Freelance warned them in advance, he is not trying to derail it.. but knew it can come to that point eventually.

Anyway.. everyone is free to discuss greatness of any player, even his critics. I don't see the point how it will derail the thread.

You don't object to people bringing Ponting into a thread about Lara Vs Tendulkar saying he was better than both, that is a bigger derailing.
 
Whether one likes it or not, on this forum and elsewhere, Tendulkar is the most discussed icon..

His greatness is questioned by many stat-experts, and if he keeps appearing in many ATG lists, it does not go well with many people who don't think he is that good, but that is fair enough.

Freelance warned them in advance, he is not trying to derail it.. but knew it can come to that point eventually.

Anyway.. everyone is free to discuss greatness of any player, even his critics. I don't see the point how it will derail the thread.

You don't object to people bringing Ponting into a thread about Lara Vs Tendulkar saying he was better than both, that is a bigger derailing.

I didn't stop you to discuss Tendulkar here i only replied to that post about hate read my first post again what i said was:

Again Tendulkar debate? C'mon man not even a single poster in this thread said anything against Tendulkar but i think another debate will start and thread will be derailed with replies like this thn instead of discussing other 99 players the whole focus will be on 1 player...

Why it was necessary to say Another disappointing thread for our simpleminded tendulkar haters. IMHO he is a great player and don't need words like this to show his greatness.

Well still i agree you can discuss whatever you want it's an open forum and you can discuss anything in any thread i got no problem.


Thanks
 
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Why it was necessary to so say Another disappointing thread for our simpleminded tendulkar haters. IMHO he is a great player and don't need words like this to show his greatness.

Freelance can answer why he said that, but IMO, he said it because sometime later.. it would have come to it.

Your opinion clearly shows that freelance's post wasn't for you, as you don't hate any player.. well no one hates.. but dislike will be better word.
 
First XI is perfectly fine. Adam Gilchrist excellent choice.:)

The 1st XI: WG Grace, Jack Hobbs, Don Bradman, Sachin Tendulkar, Graeme Pollock, Garry Sobers, Adam Gilchrist, Imran Khan, Malcolm Marshall, Shane Warne and Sydney Barnes.
 
Mcgrath is in the wrong XI. He has to be higher in the that list.
 
So If I list only the players I recall seeing in more than few matches,


------------------------------------

1 - Warne, SRT, Gilly, IK, Marshall

2 - Richards, Lara, Botham, Hadlee, Murali

3 - Gavaskar, Kapil, Wasim, McGrath

4 - Border, Steve Waugh, Ambrose

5 - Ponting

6 - Sehwag, Dravid, Minadad

7 - Hayden

8 - Kallis, Waqar, Gooch

9 - Inzzi, Andy Flower, Flintoff

--------------------------

Kallis is a gun all rounder and it's difficult to come up with more than 4-5 names who can be even compared to Kallis. I will put Kallis lot higher and probably change few more positions. Like - McGrath should be higher.
 
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Kallis is a gun all rounder and it's difficult to come up with more than 4-5 names who can be even compared to Kallis. I will put Kallis lot higher.

This book was published in 2007 i read somewhere that in updated edition of 2009 he ranked Kallis higher and removed Flintoff and a few other changes...
 
Surely Fawad Alam can be in there, due to the strength of his first class performances.
 
Not many. That's why he is a batting all rounder. If he was a gun bowler as well then he will be by default e one all rounder by huge margin.

His batting wasnt great againist the great bowlers of his era.His bowling isnt great againist any good team.

How to rate him then?
 
His batting wasnt great againist the great bowlers of his era.His bowling isnt great againist any good team.

How to rate him then?

His bowling is good against us, but than most bowlers are also good against us.
 
Well Pakistani batsman have been struggling vs the likes of SA and AUS for almost 2 decades now.

Don't know the pure facts of this, but one notable exception against Australia is Ijaz Ahmed who scored loads of runs against them at a high average. Anyway, why did you need a reply such as this, to what I stated ?
 
Don't know the pure facts of this, but one notable exception against Australia is Ijaz Ahmed who scored loads of runs against them at a high average. Anyway, why did you need a reply such as this, to what I stated ?

Only to highlight the fact that Kallis's bowling exploit againist Pakistan(perhaps the only good test side he performed againist) isnt something phenomenal.As Pakistani batsmen have struggled againist SA and AUS in last 2 decades.
 
His batting wasnt great againist the great bowlers of his era.His bowling isnt great againist any good team.

How to rate him then?

Only Aus/WI/Pak had ATG bowlers during his career. Now,

When either Ambrose or Walsh or Waqar or Wasim played,

Kallis has averages 46.16 in 16 test matches.

I admit that he is not in the league of SRT or Lara but he has done pretty well purely as a batsman. He wasn't great against McGrath/Warne combo but he has done pretty well against other 4 names.

I wasn't arguing about him being in first eleven. I was only saying that as an all rounder he should find a place in higher eleven than the 8th one.

Added Later: I forgot about Murali. He averaged 40+ against SL in 11 matches when Murali played.
 
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Only to highlight the fact that Kallis's bowling exploit againist Pakistan(perhaps the only good test side he performed againist) isnt something phenomenal.As Pakistani batsmen have struggled againist SA and AUS in last 2 decades.

So what, most bowlers have done reasonably well against Pakistan and also SA and Aus bowlers who are part of the majority have done well against us. I know also don't rate Kallis' bowling.
 
Only Aus/WI/Pak had ATG bowlers during his career. Now,

When either Ambrose or Walsh or Waqar or Wasim played,

Kallis has averages 46.16 in 16 test matches.

I admit that he is not in the league of SRT or Lara but he has done pretty well purely as a batsman. He wasn't great against McGrath/Warne combo but he has done pretty well against other 4 names.

I wasn't arguing about him being in first eleven. I was only saying that as an all rounder he should find a place in higher eleven than the 8th one.

Added Later: I forgot about Murali. He averaged 40+ against SL in 11 matches when Murali played.

What is Kallis's avg in Lanka?

Also why not look at his avg in England?

Kallis is massively overrated.And so is Sangakkara.

Kallis is not a ATG All rounder.As his Batting and Bowling both againist great teams isnt outstanding.

Same with Sangakkara.

Which is why i say Avgs have to be looked into context.
 
Only to highlight the fact that Kallis's bowling exploit againist Pakistan(perhaps the only good test side he performed againist) isnt something phenomenal.As Pakistani batsmen have struggled againist SA and AUS in last 2 decades.

Not all of the Pakistani batsmen...Ijaz, and Anwar were impressive against Australia in Australia even Taufeeq Umar was impressive against Africa in Africa he scored 730 runs including 2 centuries against South Africa averaging 60+ in 6 matches and in one match in Cape Town he scored 202 in total, 135 in 1st innings 67 in 2nd innings.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...runs;template=results;type=batting;view=match

If we talk about 80s Miandad, Asif Iqbal, Salim Malik and Zaheer Abbas were good against Australia but South Africa was not there at that time.
 
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Not all of the Pakistani batsmen...Ijaz, and Anwar were impressive against Australia in Australia even Taufeeq Umar was impressive against Africa in Africa he scored 730 runs including 2 centuries against South Africa averaging 60+ and in one match in Cape Town he scored 202 in total, 135 in 1st innings 67 in 2n innings.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...runs;template=results;type=batting;view=match

If we talk about 80s Miandad, Asif Iqbal, Salim Malik and Zaheer Abbas were good against Australia but South Africa was not there at that time.

Hate this fallacy, anyway, having Hafeez against SA in SA didn't necessarily help to dispel that notion.
 
Not all of the Pakistani batsmen...Ijaz, and Anwar were impressive against Australia in Australia even Taufeeq Umar was impressive against Africa in Africa he scored 730 runs including 2 centuries against South Africa averaging 60+ and in one match in Cape Town he scored 202 in total, 135 in 1st innings 67 in 2n innings.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...runs;template=results;type=batting;view=match

If we talk about 80s Miandad, Asif Iqbal, Salim Malik and Zaheer Abbas were good against Australia but South Africa was not there at that time.

As you see you can only find 10 innings in 2 decades.That proves my point.
 
What is Kallis's avg in Lanka?

Also why not look at his avg in England?

Kallis is massively overrated.And so is Sangakkara.

Kallis is not a ATG All rounder.As his Batting and Bowling both againist great teams isnt outstanding.

Since you asked his performances against great bowlers , I picked whoever I can think of as great. Eng didn't have any great bowler. I do consider Kallis as an ATG all rounder. I don't consider Sanga as an ATG batsman. Sanga is averaging lower to mid 30's in 4-5 countries. Sanga is a great tier 2 bat. I have not seen too many people rate Sanga as an ATG.
 
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As you see you can only find 10 innings in 2 decades.That proves my point.

10 innings in 2 decades? I just mentioned Taufeeq as an example against Africa otherwise YK also got 4 centuries against SA and even though Azhar Mahmood was an all rounder but he scored 3 centuries against SA and 2 of them were against SA in SA.

Anwar got around 900 runs against Australia including 3 centuries with an average of 59. Ijaz got 6 centuries against Aussies averaging 47+ and scored around 1100 runs. Even Aamir Sohail and Salman Butt were fine against Aussies.
 
Since you asked his performances against great bowlers , I picked whoever I can think of. I do consider Kallis as an ATG all rounder. I don't consider Sanga as an ATG batsman. Sanga is averaging lower to mid 30's in 4-5 countries. Sanga is a great tier 2 bat.

For that he has to be an ATG bowler or batsman.which one?
 
10 innings in 2 decades? I just mentioned Taufeeq as an example against Africa otherwise YK also got 4 centuries against SA and even though Azhar Mahmood was an all rounder but he scored 3 centuries against SA and 2 of them were against SA in SA.

Anwar got around 900 runs against Australia including 3 centuries with an average of 59. Ijaz got 6 centuries against Aussies averaging 47+ and scored around 1100 runs. Even Aamir Sohail and Salman Butt were fine against Aussies.

Again blatant statement.
 
10 innings in 2 decades? I just mentioned Taufeeq as an example against Africa otherwise YK also got 4 centuries against SA and even though Azhar Mahmood was an all rounder but he scored 3 centuries against SA and 2 of them were against SA in SA.

Anwar got around 900 runs against Australia including 3 centuries with an average of 59. Ijaz got 6 centuries against Aussies averaging 47+ and scored around 1100 runs. Even Aamir Sohail and Salman Butt were fine against Aussies.


YK avgs 33 in SA.

Yes Azhar Mahmood did play well in late 90s.which is why i said in last 2 decades almost.Ijaz Ahmed and Anwar all played in mid 90s i guess.So my assumption isnt too off the mark.Except Taufeeq Umar.
 
YK avgs 33 in SA.

Yes Azhar Mahmood did play well in late 90s.which is why i said in last 2 decades almost.Ijaz Ahmed and Anwar all played in mid 90s i guess.So my assumption isnt too off the mark.Except Taufeeq Umar.

Than its mostly in the last ten years.
 
For that he has to be an ATG bowler or batsman.which one?

Without getting into this argument, to be an ATG all rounder you don't have to be either an ATG batsman or an ATG bowler. ATG batsman/Bowler are separate category in itself.

Example: Kapil/Botham. They were neither ATG batsmen or bowlers but they are rated as ATG all rounders. That's why they feature so high in most list of cricketers/legends.

Also, I said I don't consider him in league of SRT and Lara but if you start using that as a benchmark then only handful will get ATG tag in whole history. How many batsmen are better or equal to SRT? You can't use that criterion otherwise it becomes too restrictive.

I consider Kallis and Dravid as ATG batsman but a notch below SRT/Lara.
 
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YK avgs 33 in SA.

Yes Azhar Mahmood did play well in late 90s.which is why i said in last 2 decades almost.Ijaz Ahmed and Anwar all played in mid 90s i guess.So my assumption isnt too off the mark.Except Taufeeq Umar.

You said against SA attack right? You didn't mentioned in SA in your first post where you said struggled so that's why i mentioned YK too...

And here you go for Anwar and Sohail:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...m=7;template=results;type=allround;view=match

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...m=7;template=results;type=allround;view=match

Now it's 2013 and Anwar and Sohail did it in between 1994-1999 so we can count it in last 2 decades right?

I never wanted to mention this Salman Butt guy but well he did it between 2004-2010
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...m=7;template=results;type=allround;view=match
 
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You said against SA attack right? You didn't mentioned in SA in your first post where you said struggled so that's why i mentioned YK too...

And here you go for Anwar and Sohail:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...m=7;template=results;type=allround;view=match

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...m=7;template=results;type=allround;view=match

Now it's 2013 and Anwar and Sohail did it in between 1994-1999 so we can count it in last 2 decades right?

I never wanted to mention this Salman Butt guy but well he did it between 2004-2010
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...m=7;template=results;type=allround;view=match

1994-98 for Sohail and Anwar.

Thats 15 years bhai.

Then you have to pick and choose 2 innings of Butt,3 innings of Taufeeq umar in 15 years.So hasnt the Pakistani batting failed in last almost 2 decades or 15 years.
 
1994-98 for Sohail and Anwar.

Thats 15 years bhai.

Then you have to pick and choose 2 innings of Butt,3 innings of Taufeeq umar in 15 years.So hasnt the Pakistani batting failed in last almost 2 decades or 15 years.

You said 10 inninngs in 2 decades? I showed you more thn 5 batsmen with multiple innings during that period so i think that's enough bhai ji...
 
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1994-98 for Sohail and Anwar.

Thats 15 years bhai.

Then you have to pick and choose 2 innings of Butt,3 innings of Taufeeq umar in 15 years.So hasnt the Pakistani batting failed in last almost 2 decades or 15 years.

How many test have they played since ? :iqasim
 
I'm being biased but I think Imran Khan is one of the top 5 cricketers of all time.
 
I'm being biased but I think Imran Khan is one of the top 5 cricketers of all time.

Can't argue about the exact ranking but he surely features pretty high in most lists. Here also author included him in first XI.

Anyway, much better gauge is a panel of ex-cricketer collectively rating him pretty high in 2001:

1. Don Bradman
2. Gary Sobers
3. Viv Richards
4. Shane Warne
5. Jack Hobbs
6. Dennis Lillee
7. Sachin Tendulkar
8. Imran Khan
9. Wally Hammond
10. Sunny Gavaskar
11. Ian Botham
12. Richards Hadlee
13. Keith Miller
14. W.G. Grace
15. Graeme Pollock
16. Malcolm Marshall
17. Greg Chappell
18. George Headley
19. Frank Worrell
20. Len Hutton
21. Wasim Akram
22. Kapil Dev
23. Steve Waugh
24. Barry Richards
25. Allan Border​

Panel : Wasim Akram, Sunil Gavaskar, Richie Benaud, Sir Richard Hadlee, Dickie Bird, Michael Holding, Allan Border, John Knowles, Ian Botham, Robin Marlar, Ian Chappell, Christopher Martin-Jenkins, Tony Cozier, Mike Procter and Martin Crowe.

Link : http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?t=118417
 
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Can't argue about the exact ranking but he surely features pretty high in most lists. Here also author included him in first XI.

Anyway, much better gauge is a panel of ex-cricketer collectively rating him pretty high in 2001:

1. Don Bradman
2. Gary Sobers
3. Viv Richards
4. Shane Warne
5. Jack Hobbs
6. Dennis Lillee
7. Sachin Tendulkar
8. Imran Khan
9. Wally Hammond
10. Sunny Gavaskar
11. Ian Botham
12. Richards Hadlee
13. Keith Miller
14. W.G. Grace
15. Graeme Pollock
16. Malcolm Marshall
17. Greg Chappell
18. George Headley
19. Frank Worrell
20. Len Hutton
21. Wasim Akram
22. Kapil Dev
23. Steve Waugh
24. Barry Richards
25. Allan Border​

Panel : Wasim Akram, Sunil Gavaskar, Richie Benaud, Sir Richard Hadlee, Dickie Bird, Michael Holding, Allan Border, John Knowles, Ian Botham, Robin Marlar, Ian Chappell, Christopher Martin-Jenkins, Tony Cozier, Mike Procter and Martin Crowe.

Link : http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?t=118417

He would be pretty high.

Definately Top 3 all rounders of all time.Sobers and Millers being the other two.

Undoubtedly top 10, but arguably top 5, have to say Tendulkar has been an absolute legend for India though, this is coming from a fervent Pakistani fan, but I'm mostly neutral when judging great players.
 
i think these are about right, though i'd put keith miller in the 2nd xi and drop botham and kapil down one each.

I think pollock is a bit over-rated so i'd stick sir viv up a team to come in behind sir don.

I don't understand the respect for trumper who was not much at test level - sort of an earlier graeme hick - so sunny gets promoted.

+1
 
One of the best all time lists I have seen so far. Only a few changes like miller etc should be higher, and it would be THE BEST.
 
I'm being biased but I think Imran Khan is one of the top 5 cricketers of all time.

There is always an element of bias involved even when these XI's are selected. For example it's mentioned that after the 99 players he picked his favorite Doug Walters as 100th man.
 
Just noticed Ian Chappell is not there in any XI while Greg Chappell is there in 3rd XI :13:
 
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