The Afghan racism issue towards Punjabis in Britain

[ExplicitAI]

A majority of south asians from either India or Pakistan have migrated to western countries during the 1960's to build a better life and to maximise their talents for their future generations. During the present time, we are currently seeing 3rd generation Indians and Pakistanis who have been brought up with British values and are making giant strides when it comes to success whether it be their finance, earning top class degrees and maintaining their health and fitness. We have also seen Indians and Pakistanis educate themselves about racism towards other races and how we should treat each other with love and respect, as well as what the consequences of what racism and bullying does to another individual. This could lead to increase rates of depression & anxiety as well as soaring suicide rates. You do tend to get the odd delinquents from both sides who get themselves into the dark corners of crime but they remain a minority. Such is also the case with Afghans in which you will find some to be extremely welcoming, friendly and successful whereas others have been indulging themselves heavily in crime and selling drugs.

An issue that I have witnessed throughout my life is the amount of racism Punjabis face from some Afghans in the UK. Throughout schools, colleges and Universities, I have seen some horrific things that Punjabis have had to endure and the amount of venom and hate they have received from some Afghans. Some Punjabis and Afghans tend to start off as good friends and have a very warm friendship with each other, always supporting the other in ways others would never even think of. Most 3rd generation Punjabis in the UK tend to be very indulged in British culture and have an interest in a variety of different things with a very open mind, in other words they are quite content and happy with their lives. Some Afghans in the UK have had parents who had gone through a lot of troubles in their lives growing up in a war torn country and did everything that they can to ensure their children do not go through the same pain that they went through. However, this trauma can get passed down to their children which is really unfortunate and can result in lifelong psychological issues, feelings of regret tend to creep in from time to time to the point where they end up relying on drugs to help ease the pain.

Overtime I've seen relationships between the two races sour mainly due to some Afghans having a problem with Punjabis. They end up blaming the Punjabi for every little thing that goes wrong in their lives and this can worsen overtime to the point where gaslighting and mental abuse can occur. Punjabis sometimes tend to take everything like a sponge as they are a hardy bunch, but this can also be a downside if they let things slide too often. Also, some Afghans would racially abuse Punjabis for their darker skin tone, their facial features, eating daal and so on. A lot of this racism stems from the troubles back home in a war torn Afghanistan, in which Pakistan gets blamed for causing violence in their country. Instead of the Afghans only blaming the Pakistan government for their issues, they end up doing horrific things to an average Punjabi who would not have anything to do with what the Pakistan government is doing back home. Most of these Punjabis who are politically correct and condemn the wrongdoings in the universe are still blamed by Afghans for their personal problems. We have seen evidence of this type of abuse during the ICC 2019 cricket World Cup between Pakistan and Afghanistan, where Afghan fans decided to fight any Pakistani they can. The same thing can happen elsewhere whether it be in an educational institute or even discretely in a work environment. Punjabis have been made to feel as if they are punching bags and an easy target for bullying and mental abuse to which leads to depression & anxiety if this goes on for too long. However, these incidents seem to be brushed under the carpet and is hardly brought up.

These issues do not only just occur between the muslim communities of both Punjabis and Afghans but also occur between Punjabi Sikhs and Afghan Sikhs, hence this is mainly a tribal issue. A lot of Punjabis are blinded by the concept of a brotherly love for Afghans but some Afghans do not feel the same, the feelings of hatred could potentially be stemmed from years ago during wars between the two races throughout Ranjit Singh's time.

Racism in any shape or form is never ok and must be rooted out regardless of which part of the world you are from, as the consequences of enduring racism for a long period of time could potentially lead to mental health issues and suicides. This thread is not aimed to paint every Afghan with the same brush but to only highlight the small minority who have been indulging themselves in hatred and corruption to which not only causes others harm but also harm to themselves.

 

[Giannis]

Yeah, there is a lot of racism from Afghans towards South Asians but especially Pakistanis. I wouldn't say "Punjabis" because Afghans use "Punjabi" disparagingly as a catch-all term for all Desi people much like how to a white person all brown people are just "Ay-rabs" or "messicans". I've heard Afghans refer to Bhutto and Musharraf as "Punjabiyan" "daalkhors" etc even though they aren't Punjabi. The worse part is that a lot of the liberal Afghan types deny the racism that exists in their communities and a lot of non-South Asian Muslims like Arabs who have idea about the history of the region or have experience with Afghans, they tend to see Afghanistan as a wartorn country that deserves all their empathy. Colorism is rife in Afghan culture but unlike South Asians who acknowledge that we have a problem, Afghans including the educated ones deny that such a problem exists and that it's only "desi and arab problem".

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Afghanistan is named after its largest ethnic group, the Pashtun people, as historically Afghan meant Pashtun. So therefore Afghans view Pakistan and Punjabi as synonymous. So hate for Pakistan is often expressed as hate for Punjabi's.

This thread is not aimed to paint every Afghan with the same brush but to only highlight the small minority who have been indulging themselves in hatred and corruption to which not only causes others harm but also harm to themselves.

Is it a small minority? I dont think the majority of Afghan people like Pakistan.

 

[Giannis]

Afghanistan is named after its largest ethnic group, the Pashtun people, as historically Afghan meant Pashtun. So therefore Afghans view Pakistan and Punjabi as synonymous. So hate for Pakistan is often expressed as hate for Punjabi's.



Is it a small minority? I dont think the majority of Afghan people like Pakistan.

Yeah a lot of Afghans can not fathom that Pakistan is a multi-ethnic country and that a lot of non-Punjabis are proud Pakistanis, in fact online they'll just assume you're "Punjabi" if you were to defend Pakistan. A lot of Afghans believe that South Asians are only Muslim because of them and that we were just low caste Hindus that were converted by them even though Afghans didn't conquer northern South Asia until the mid 18th century and Islam was already established in those regions by Turko-Persian (Khorasani) emperors several centuries earlier - these same Khorasani emperors were insulted President Ghani as he doesn't see them as Afghan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashraf_Ghani#Controversy

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Yeah a lot of Afghans can not fathom that Pakistan is a multi-ethnic country and that a lot of non-Punjabis are proud Pakistanis, in fact online they'll just assume you're "Punjabi" if you were to defend Pakistan.

They would be in shock to learn that 92% of Pashtun identify as Pakistani first.

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2009/08/Pakistan-2009-13.png

A lot of Afghans believe that South Asians are only Muslim because of them and that we were just low caste Hindus that were converted by them even though Afghans didn't conquer northern South Asia until the mid 18th century and Islam was already established in those regions by Turko-Persian (Khorasani) emperors several centuries earlier -

What these fools dont realize is that those people who conquered the subcontinent did not leave. Their descendants do not live in Afghanistan, but in the subcontinent.

This is the equivalent of French saying they ruled England, because from William the Conqueror in 1066 to Richard III in 1485 the Kings of England were of French origin.

these same Khorasani emperors were insulted President Ghani as he doesn't see them as Afghan.

He is right. They were not Afghan. Same way we cant call Kings like Akbar who were born in Pakistan, as Pakistani, just because some King was born in modern day Afghanistan does not make him an Afghan.

 

[Giannis]

They would be in shock to learn that 92% of Pashtun identify as Pakistani first.

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2009/08/Pakistan-2009-13.png



What these fools dont realize is that those people who conquered the subcontinent did not leave. Their descendants do not live in Afghanistan, but in the subcontinent.

This is the equivalent of French saying they ruled England, because from William the Conqueror in 1066 to Richard III in 1485 the Kings of England were of French origin.





He is right. They were not Afghan. Same way we cant call Kings like Akbar who were born in Pakistan, as Pakistani, just because some King was born in modern day Afghanistan does not make him an Afghan.

I think Ghani doesn't consider them as Afghan because they aren't Pashtun, that's why the Uzbek and Tajik minorities took offense to his comment. I'm pretty sure Abdali and Mirwais Hotak are considered heroes of Afghanistan.

 

[PakLFC]

Afghanis hate each other like you wouldn't believe so it is very normal for them to do so others. Pashtuns hate Tajik who in return despise the Hazara and so forth. Something in the human mind hates people hate others when their own country is a mess. Part of the reason is they have been unable to form Pashtunistan by seducing our Pashtuns. It would anger them no ends to see Pashtuns in Pak doing much better then they do in the warzone next door. Then it is this flimsy bravado they still suffer from of how their forefathers conquered India centuries back. Yeah, after that they Russians totally screwed their minds too!

 

[street cricketer]

In my experience in social media of seeing interactions of Afghans and Pakistanis, I've observed the following things with the Afghans particularly:

1. They're really proud of their history and culture and the fact that their kings invaded, if not ruled, most parts of the subcontinent. They take pride in the fact that Afghanistan had never been under constant British rule like the subcontinent was and that Afghanistan is called as the "graveyard of empires". In short, they take pride in the fact that they had never been under foreign rule for long periods while their kings have went on to rule, or at the very least, invade and defeat kingdoms in the subcontinent.

I have a disagreement here though because when studying the history of Afghanistan, you realise that whether it was the non muslim kingdoms or the muslim kingdoms in control of Afghanistan over the course of its history, almost always Afghanistan had been under a foreign origin power - mainly from the Iran (be it the Archaemenid empire, Indo-Parthians or the Sassanians during non muslim rule or Safavid or Afsharid Iran during Persian muslim rule of Afghanistan), Indian (Khamboji, Maurya, Gupta, Hindu Shahi during the non muslim rule and Mughals during the muslim rule), Greek/Indo-Greek kingdoms (Alexander, Seleucid empire, Greco Bactrian, etc.), Central asia (Indo-Scythian, Huns, various Turkic empires like Ghaznavi/Timur, Turk Shahi, etc.), Arab empires (Rashidun Arabs, Abbasids, etc.) or even having origin from as far as from western China (the Kushan empire). It is only from the early 1700s that you start seeing the Pashtun origin kingdoms like the Hotaki dynasty followed by the Durrani empire, etc.

2. The Pakistanis generally tend to identify based on Islam (it's natural as the country was created on Islam) and therefore identify with muslim kingdoms from Afghanistan like the Ghaznavids, the Ghurids and the Durrani empire. But even though Afghans are highly religious muslims too, the word Afghan historically has always been sort of synonymous with the Pashtun ethnicity and therefore the ethnic identification is a lot more strong in the case of Afghans. It's not that Pakistanis don't tend to be proud of their ethnic origins, but let's just say Afghans tend to identify more with their Pashtun identity. Therefore the Afghans tend to lump all the Pakistanis together into the "Punjabi" ethnicity as they view themselves as representatives of the Pashtuns.

And so, historically the Durranis have had a lot of fights with the Sikh rulers in Punjab (including the Punjab in modern day Pakistan and India) right from the days of Ahmad Shah Abdali, sometimes invading Lahore and Amritsar at their will and at other times, having had to face stiff resistance from strong Sikh rulers like Ranjit Singh. It is why I have sometimes observed when a Pakistani Pashtun with a Durrani surname speaks in favour of Pakistan, an Afghan says to him that he should be ashamed of his Durrani lineage or that he's a fake Durrani and so and so. So there are ethnic dynamics at play here, with Afghans tending to view Pakistanis as a single monolithic group, lumping them together as Punjabis. They don't view the Pakistani Pashtuns as how they see the Pakistanis as "Punjabis" because they have historically viewed areas like KPK as their own as many Afghans don't recognise the Durand line (even if majority of the Pakistani Pashtuns themselves are pro Pakistani).

3. Talking about the discrimination bit, I've seen three aspects that some Afghans use on Pakistanis - the skin colour bit and the slur words "Daal Khor" and "Heera Mandi". The colorism is not specific to Afghans, it's a pan south asian phenomenon and I've seen Pakistanis and north Indians taunt Bengalis/Bangladeshis, South Indians and even Sri Lankans for their darker complexion. So it's not surprising that some Afghans taunt Pakistanis for darker complexion when compared to them.

The other slur words I can't quite understand though. Dal is an essential pulse for human diet just like grains like rice or wheat. So I don't know what's so lowly about eating dal lol, it's not like you can eat only meat. And I've seen Punjabis swear on Dal chawal or Dal makhni as being the best dishes. So there's that. As for Heera Mandi, I didn't realise what it was and had to google it. Turns out it's one of the red light areas in Lahore, not sure why that's so unique as you find such regions in every country. There's one in Kolkata that's famous in India and I think there's one in Bangladesh too, heck, there are similar regions even in western countries. Maybe there's a historical aspect to it that seems to fly above my head. I did read that it was used in the past for entertaining the Mughal officials/kings.

4. That said, the present day animosity between Afghans and Pakistanis is not entirely a legacy of the past skirmishes or battles between the Durranis and the Sikhs of Punjab. It's mostly a result of the Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan's role in it. In one of the books on the Afghan conflict, I read that when the Taliban was in power in Afghanistan (pre US invasion of Afghanistan in the WOT), there was accounts from Afghan civilians that there used to be plenty of Taliban fighters policing the markets in Kabul and other regions but speaking a foreign language (Punjabi) that was not either Pashto or Dari, the two most popular languages that's in use in Afghanistan. It's only worsened on social media when some Pakistanis support the Taliban coming to power in Afghanistan against the Afghan government and military, the Afghans view it as a war imposed on the Afghans by the Punjabis. Hence the common Punjabi slur word.

So the Afghan-Pakistan relations are complicated by issues stemming from historical, ethnic, national and modern geopolitical factors.

 

[Giannis]

In my experience in social media of seeing interactions of Afghans and Pakistanis, I've observed the following things with the Afghans particularly:

1. They're really proud of their history and culture and the fact that their kings invaded, if not ruled, most parts of the subcontinent. They take pride in the fact that Afghanistan had never been under constant British rule like the subcontinent was and that Afghanistan is called as the "graveyard of empires". In short, they take pride in the fact that they had never been under foreign rule for long periods while their kings have went on to rule, or at the very least, invade and defeat kingdoms in the subcontinent.

I have a disagreement here though because when studying the history of Afghanistan, you realise that whether it was the non muslim kingdoms or the muslim kingdoms in control of Afghanistan over the course of its history, almost always Afghanistan had been under a foreign origin power - mainly from the Iran (be it the Archaemenid empire, Indo-Parthians or the Sassanians during non muslim rule or Safavid or Afsharid Iran during Persian muslim rule of Afghanistan), Indian (Khamboji, Maurya, Gupta, Hindu Shahi during the non muslim rule and Mughals during the muslim rule), Greek/Indo-Greek kingdoms (Alexander, Seleucid empire, Greco Bactrian, etc.), Central asia (Indo-Scythian, Huns, various Turkic empires like Ghaznavi/Timur, Turk Shahi, etc.), Arab empires (Rashidun Arabs, Abbasids, etc.) or even having origin from as far as from western China (the Kushan empire). It is only from the early 1700s that you start seeing the Pashtun origin kingdoms like the Hotaki dynasty followed by the Durrani empire, etc.

2. The Pakistanis generally tend to identify based on Islam (it's natural as the country was created on Islam) and therefore identify with muslim kingdoms from Afghanistan like the Ghaznavids, the Ghurids and the Durrani empire. But even though Afghans are highly religious muslims too, the word Afghan historically has always been sort of synonymous with the Pashtun ethnicity and therefore the ethnic identification is a lot more strong in the case of Afghans. It's not that Pakistanis don't tend to be proud of their ethnic origins, but let's just say Afghans tend to identify more with their Pashtun identity. Therefore the Afghans tend to lump all the Pakistanis together into the "Punjabi" ethnicity as they view themselves as representatives of the Pashtuns.

And so, historically the Durranis have had a lot of fights with the Sikh rulers in Punjab (including the Punjab in modern day Pakistan and India) right from the days of Ahmad Shah Abdali, sometimes invading Lahore and Amritsar at their will and at other times, having had to face stiff resistance from strong Sikh rulers like Ranjit Singh. It is why I have sometimes observed when a Pakistani Pashtun with a Durrani surname speaks in favour of Pakistan, an Afghan says to him that he should be ashamed of his Durrani lineage or that he's a fake Durrani and so and so. So there are ethnic dynamics at play here, with Afghans tending to view Pakistanis as a single monolithic group, lumping them together as Punjabis. They don't view the Pakistani Pashtuns as how they see the Pakistanis as "Punjabis" because they have historically viewed areas like KPK as their own as many Afghans don't recognise the Durand line (even if majority of the Pakistani Pashtuns themselves are pro Pakistani).

3. Talking about the discrimination bit, I've seen three aspects that some Afghans use on Pakistanis - the skin colour bit and the slur words "Daal Khor" and "Heera Mandi". The colorism is not specific to Afghans, it's a pan south asian phenomenon and I've seen Pakistanis and north Indians taunt Bengalis/Bangladeshis, South Indians and even Sri Lankans for their darker complexion. So it's not surprising that some Afghans taunt Pakistanis for darker complexion when compared to them.

The other slur words I can't quite understand though. Dal is an essential pulse for human diet just like grains like rice or wheat. So I don't know what's so lowly about eating dal lol, it's not like you can eat only meat. And I've seen Punjabis swear on Dal chawal or Dal makhni as being the best dishes. So there's that. As for Heera Mandi, I didn't realise what it was and had to google it. Turns out it's one of the red light areas in Lahore, not sure why that's so unique as you find such regions in every country. There's one in Kolkata that's famous in India and I think there's one in Bangladesh too, heck, there are similar regions even in western countries. Maybe there's a historical aspect to it that seems to fly above my head. I did read that it was used in the past for entertaining the Mughal officials/kings.

4. That said, the present day animosity between Afghans and Pakistanis is not entirely a legacy of the past skirmishes or battles between the Durranis and the Sikhs of Punjab. It's mostly a result of the Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan's role in it. In one of the books on the Afghan conflict, I read that when the Taliban was in power in Afghanistan (pre US invasion of Afghanistan in the WOT), there was accounts from Afghan civilians that there used to be plenty of Taliban fighters policing the markets in Kabul and other regions but speaking a foreign language (Punjabi) that was not either Pashto or Dari, the two most popular languages that's in use in Afghanistan. It's only worsened on social media when some Pakistanis support the Taliban coming to power in Afghanistan against the Afghan government and military, the Afghans view it as a war imposed on the Afghans by the Punjabis. Hence the common Punjabi slur word.

So the Afghan-Pakistan relations are complicated by issues stemming from historical, ethnic, national and modern geopolitical factors.

This is a decent summary but leaves out the geopolitical issues between Afghanistan and Pakistan from 1947 until 1979 when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. Afghanistan voted against Pakistan's admission into the UN, they didn't recognize Pakistan for quite a few years after independence, Pakistan's first PM was assasinated by an Afghan citizen while there are many conspiracy theories about who was behind it - the fact remains that his assassination was celebrated by the Afghan govt. Afghanistan tried to destabilize Pakistan by support insurgents in the KPK and Balochistan provinces and even tried invading in 1960 (Battle of Bajaur), throughout the first 4 decades of Pakistan's history the Afghan establishment tried to support armed marxists and ethnonationalists in Pakistan so Pakistan retaliated by in the 80s by finally using the same strategic depth tactics the Kabul govt was using for decades. Journalists love to use the word "strategic depth" to describe Pakistan's interventionism in Afghanistan but don't realize that this tactic was used by the Afghans first.

 

[street cricketer]

This is a decent summary but leaves out the geopolitical issues between Afghanistan and Pakistan from 1947 until 1979 when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. Afghanistan voted against Pakistan's admission into the UN, they didn't recognize Pakistan for quite a few years after independence, Pakistan's first PM was assasinated by an Afghan citizen while there are many conspiracy theories about who was behind it - the fact remains that his assassination was celebrated by the Afghan govt. Afghanistan tried to destabilize Pakistan by support insurgents in the KPK and Balochistan provinces and even tried invading in 1960 (Battle of Bajaur), throughout the first 4 decades of Pakistan's history the Afghan establishment tried to support armed marxists and ethnonationalists in Pakistan so Pakistan retaliated by in the 80s by finally using the same strategic depth tactics the Kabul govt was using for decades. Journalists love to use the word "strategic depth" to describe Pakistan's interventionism in Afghanistan but don't realize that this tactic was used by the Afghans first.

I know, but if I had included these, my post would be two pages long, it's already long enough!

 

[Manunited18]

Well there is a massive influx of Afghanis in pakistan, and if their showing any kind of discriminatory or abuse, then they can leave.

 

[Third_Umpire]

Have often heard of this proud Afghan narrative, proud because they have never been conquered. They’ve been conquered every time despite what they want to believe. Their country is nothing but rubble. I feel sorry for them, but don’t understand their misplaced pride.

 

[ExplicitAI]

In my experience in social media of seeing interactions of Afghans and Pakistanis, I've observed the following things with the Afghans particularly:

1. They're really proud of their history and culture and the fact that their kings invaded, if not ruled, most parts of the subcontinent. They take pride in the fact that Afghanistan had never been under constant British rule like the subcontinent was and that Afghanistan is called as the "graveyard of empires". In short, they take pride in the fact that they had never been under foreign rule for long periods while their kings have went on to rule, or at the very least, invade and defeat kingdoms in the subcontinent.

I have a disagreement here though because when studying the history of Afghanistan, you realise that whether it was the non muslim kingdoms or the muslim kingdoms in control of Afghanistan over the course of its history, almost always Afghanistan had been under a foreign origin power - mainly from the Iran (be it the Archaemenid empire, Indo-Parthians or the Sassanians during non muslim rule or Safavid or Afsharid Iran during Persian muslim rule of Afghanistan), Indian (Khamboji, Maurya, Gupta, Hindu Shahi during the non muslim rule and Mughals during the muslim rule), Greek/Indo-Greek kingdoms (Alexander, Seleucid empire, Greco Bactrian, etc.), Central asia (Indo-Scythian, Huns, various Turkic empires like Ghaznavi/Timur, Turk Shahi, etc.), Arab empires (Rashidun Arabs, Abbasids, etc.) or even having origin from as far as from western China (the Kushan empire). It is only from the early 1700s that you start seeing the Pashtun origin kingdoms like the Hotaki dynasty followed by the Durrani empire, etc.

2. The Pakistanis generally tend to identify based on Islam (it's natural as the country was created on Islam) and therefore identify with muslim kingdoms from Afghanistan like the Ghaznavids, the Ghurids and the Durrani empire. But even though Afghans are highly religious muslims too, the word Afghan historically has always been sort of synonymous with the Pashtun ethnicity and therefore the ethnic identification is a lot more strong in the case of Afghans. It's not that Pakistanis don't tend to be proud of their ethnic origins, but let's just say Afghans tend to identify more with their Pashtun identity. Therefore the Afghans tend to lump all the Pakistanis together into the "Punjabi" ethnicity as they view themselves as representatives of the Pashtuns.

And so, historically the Durranis have had a lot of fights with the Sikh rulers in Punjab (including the Punjab in modern day Pakistan and India) right from the days of Ahmad Shah Abdali, sometimes invading Lahore and Amritsar at their will and at other times, having had to face stiff resistance from strong Sikh rulers like Ranjit Singh. It is why I have sometimes observed when a Pakistani Pashtun with a Durrani surname speaks in favour of Pakistan, an Afghan says to him that he should be ashamed of his Durrani lineage or that he's a fake Durrani and so and so. So there are ethnic dynamics at play here, with Afghans tending to view Pakistanis as a single monolithic group, lumping them together as Punjabis. They don't view the Pakistani Pashtuns as how they see the Pakistanis as "Punjabis" because they have historically viewed areas like KPK as their own as many Afghans don't recognise the Durand line (even if majority of the Pakistani Pashtuns themselves are pro Pakistani).

3. Talking about the discrimination bit, I've seen three aspects that some Afghans use on Pakistanis - the skin colour bit and the slur words "Daal Khor" and "Heera Mandi". The colorism is not specific to Afghans, it's a pan south asian phenomenon and I've seen Pakistanis and north Indians taunt Bengalis/Bangladeshis, South Indians and even Sri Lankans for their darker complexion. So it's not surprising that some Afghans taunt Pakistanis for darker complexion when compared to them.

The other slur words I can't quite understand though. Dal is an essential pulse for human diet just like grains like rice or wheat. So I don't know what's so lowly about eating dal lol, it's not like you can eat only meat. And I've seen Punjabis swear on Dal chawal or Dal makhni as being the best dishes. So there's that. As for Heera Mandi, I didn't realise what it was and had to google it. Turns out it's one of the red light areas in Lahore, not sure why that's so unique as you find such regions in every country. There's one in Kolkata that's famous in India and I think there's one in Bangladesh too, heck, there are similar regions even in western countries. Maybe there's a historical aspect to it that seems to fly above my head. I did read that it was used in the past for entertaining the Mughal officials/kings.

4. That said, the present day animosity between Afghans and Pakistanis is not entirely a legacy of the past skirmishes or battles between the Durranis and the Sikhs of Punjab. It's mostly a result of the Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan's role in it. In one of the books on the Afghan conflict, I read that when the Taliban was in power in Afghanistan (pre US invasion of Afghanistan in the WOT), there was accounts from Afghan civilians that there used to be plenty of Taliban fighters policing the markets in Kabul and other regions but speaking a foreign language (Punjabi) that was not either Pashto or Dari, the two most popular languages that's in use in Afghanistan. It's only worsened on social media when some Pakistanis support the Taliban coming to power in Afghanistan against the Afghan government and military, the Afghans view it as a war imposed on the Afghans by the Punjabis. Hence the common Punjabi slur word.

So the Afghan-Pakistan relations are complicated by issues stemming from historical, ethnic, national and modern geopolitical factors.

This is a great summary regarding this topic. I would also like to mention that given I am a British Pakistani, I pride myself as a Punjabi and also my caste (Jatt), I also have a lot of Sikh friends (and Pakistani friends too). I don't believe in the caste system at all but stereotypically, the Jatt is seen as the highest caste in Punjab equivalent to that of a white man in America. I have seen Afghans mainly target Jatts out of all other castes, they remain somewhat tolerant of Rajputs and other Punjabi castes but Jatts make their blood boil when seeing them. In terms of Islamic influence, I do not believe that the Afghans played a part in "converting" Punjabis. The first group of Jatts were atheists who adopted Islam due to Baba Farid, the others became Sikhs.

 

[ExplicitAI]

Yeah, there is a lot of racism from Afghans towards South Asians but especially Pakistanis. I wouldn't say "Punjabis" because Afghans use "Punjabi" disparagingly as a catch-all term for all Desi people much like how to a white person all brown people are just "Ay-rabs" or "messicans". I've heard Afghans refer to Bhutto and Musharraf as "Punjabiyan" "daalkhors" etc even though they aren't Punjabi. The worse part is that a lot of the liberal Afghan types deny the racism that exists in their communities and a lot of non-South Asian Muslims like Arabs who have idea about the history of the region or have experience with Afghans, they tend to see Afghanistan as a wartorn country that deserves all their empathy. Colorism is rife in Afghan culture but unlike South Asians who acknowledge that we have a problem, Afghans including the educated ones deny that such a problem exists and that it's only "desi and arab problem".

Given how scary the racism really is and that I am a Jatt, I tend to stay away from them as much as possible. I'm really good friends with Indians though, both British and the ones from India originally. Very warm and friendly people they are, supported me thick and thin.

 

[street cricketer]

This is a great summary regarding this topic. I would also like to mention that given I am a British Pakistani, I pride myself as a Punjabi and also my caste (Jatt), I also have a lot of Sikh friends (and Pakistani friends too). I don't believe in the caste system at all but stereotypically, the Jatt is seen as the highest caste in Punjab equivalent to that of a white man in America. I have seen Afghans mainly target Jatts out of all other castes, they remain somewhat tolerant of Rajputs and other Punjabi castes but Jatts make their blood boil when seeing them. In terms of Islamic influence, I do not believe that the Afghans played a part in "converting" Punjabis. The first group of Jatts were atheists who adopted Islam due to Baba Farid, the others became Sikhs.

Why do they target the Jatts specifically and how do they identify who is a Jatt and who is a Rajput?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

In my experience in social media of seeing interactions of Afghans and Pakistanis, I've observed the following things with the Afghans particularly:

1. They're really proud of their history and culture and the fact that their kings invaded, if not ruled, most parts of the subcontinent. They take pride in the fact that Afghanistan had never been under constant British rule like the subcontinent was and that Afghanistan is called as the "graveyard of empires". In short, they take pride in the fact that they had never been under foreign rule for long periods while their kings have went on to rule, or at the very least, invade and defeat kingdoms in the subcontinent.

I have a disagreement here though because when studying the history of Afghanistan, you realise that whether it was the non muslim kingdoms or the muslim kingdoms in control of Afghanistan over the course of its history, almost always Afghanistan had been under a foreign origin power - mainly from the Iran (be it the Archaemenid empire, Indo-Parthians or the Sassanians during non muslim rule or Safavid or Afsharid Iran during Persian muslim rule of Afghanistan), Indian (Khamboji, Maurya, Gupta, Hindu Shahi during the non muslim rule and Mughals during the muslim rule), Greek/Indo-Greek kingdoms (Alexander, Seleucid empire, Greco Bactrian, etc.), Central asia (Indo-Scythian, Huns, various Turkic empires like Ghaznavi/Timur, Turk Shahi, etc.), Arab empires (Rashidun Arabs, Abbasids, etc.) or even having origin from as far as from western China (the Kushan empire). It is only from the early 1700s that you start seeing the Pashtun origin kingdoms like the Hotaki dynasty followed by the Durrani empire, etc.

2. The Pakistanis generally tend to identify based on Islam (it's natural as the country was created on Islam) and therefore identify with muslim kingdoms from Afghanistan like the Ghaznavids, the Ghurids and the Durrani empire. But even though Afghans are highly religious muslims too, the word Afghan historically has always been sort of synonymous with the Pashtun ethnicity and therefore the ethnic identification is a lot more strong in the case of Afghans. It's not that Pakistanis don't tend to be proud of their ethnic origins, but let's just say Afghans tend to identify more with their Pashtun identity. Therefore the Afghans tend to lump all the Pakistanis together into the "Punjabi" ethnicity as they view themselves as representatives of the Pashtuns.

And so, historically the Durranis have had a lot of fights with the Sikh rulers in Punjab (including the Punjab in modern day Pakistan and India) right from the days of Ahmad Shah Abdali, sometimes invading Lahore and Amritsar at their will and at other times, having had to face stiff resistance from strong Sikh rulers like Ranjit Singh. It is why I have sometimes observed when a Pakistani Pashtun with a Durrani surname speaks in favour of Pakistan, an Afghan says to him that he should be ashamed of his Durrani lineage or that he's a fake Durrani and so and so. So there are ethnic dynamics at play here, with Afghans tending to view Pakistanis as a single monolithic group, lumping them together as Punjabis. They don't view the Pakistani Pashtuns as how they see the Pakistanis as "Punjabis" because they have historically viewed areas like KPK as their own as many Afghans don't recognise the Durand line (even if majority of the Pakistani Pashtuns themselves are pro Pakistani).

3. Talking about the discrimination bit, I've seen three aspects that some Afghans use on Pakistanis - the skin colour bit and the slur words "Daal Khor" and "Heera Mandi". The colorism is not specific to Afghans, it's a pan south asian phenomenon and I've seen Pakistanis and north Indians taunt Bengalis/Bangladeshis, South Indians and even Sri Lankans for their darker complexion. So it's not surprising that some Afghans taunt Pakistanis for darker complexion when compared to them.

The other slur words I can't quite understand though. Dal is an essential pulse for human diet just like grains like rice or wheat. So I don't know what's so lowly about eating dal lol, it's not like you can eat only meat. And I've seen Punjabis swear on Dal chawal or Dal makhni as being the best dishes. So there's that. As for Heera Mandi, I didn't realise what it was and had to google it. Turns out it's one of the red light areas in Lahore, not sure why that's so unique as you find such regions in every country. There's one in Kolkata that's famous in India and I think there's one in Bangladesh too, heck, there are similar regions even in western countries. Maybe there's a historical aspect to it that seems to fly above my head. I did read that it was used in the past for entertaining the Mughal officials/kings.

4. That said, the present day animosity between Afghans and Pakistanis is not entirely a legacy of the past skirmishes or battles between the Durranis and the Sikhs of Punjab. It's mostly a result of the Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan's role in it. In one of the books on the Afghan conflict, I read that when the Taliban was in power in Afghanistan (pre US invasion of Afghanistan in the WOT), there was accounts from Afghan civilians that there used to be plenty of Taliban fighters policing the markets in Kabul and other regions but speaking a foreign language (Punjabi) that was not either Pashto or Dari, the two most popular languages that's in use in Afghanistan. It's only worsened on social media when some Pakistanis support the Taliban coming to power in Afghanistan against the Afghan government and military, the Afghans view it as a war imposed on the Afghans by the Punjabis. Hence the common Punjabi slur word.

So the Afghan-Pakistan relations are complicated by issues stemming from historical, ethnic, national and modern geopolitical factors.

The Taliban was born in Kandahar, because it is a pan-Islamic movement, there will have been support in Pakistan and other Muslim countries as well.

Pakistan is not responsible for Taliban, but would they prefer them over the racist dal khor hating northern alliance Afghans? Probably yes, and with good reason.

 

[Local.Dada]

Just an observation I thought imran Khan was a Pashtun etc but when I hear him speak Urdu he sounds like a typical Punjabi for example the way he says “Apne Ghabrana nahi hai” etc on the other hand I have heard Rashid Khan and Nabi speak Urdu while giving interviews in IPL they sound like what a stereotypical Pathan accent would sound like.

May be it stems from there kind of like how Afridi called Irfan Pathan a naqli Pathan or something.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Just an observation I thought imran Khan was a Pashtun etc but when I hear him speak Urdu he sounds like a typical Punjabi for example the way he says “Apne Ghabrana nahi hai” etc on the other hand I have heard Rashid Khan and Nabi speak Urdu while giving interviews in IPL they sound like what a stereotypical Pathan accent would sound like.

May be it stems from there kind of like how Afridi called Irfan Pathan a naqli Pathan or something.

Imran Khan's family migrated to Lahore a long time ago, he was actually brought up in Punjab. You will find Pashtun communities in large numbers across not just Punjab but also Karachi and Balochistan as well. Probably Kashmir as well for all I know, but perhaps someone from that region can confirm.

 

[Local.Dada]

Imran Khan's family migrated to Lahore a long time ago, he was actually brought up in Punjab. You will find Pashtun communities in large numbers across not just Punjab but also Karachi and Balochistan as well. Probably Kashmir as well for all I know, but perhaps someone from that region can confirm.

I am not questioning his lineage, just saying that may be that’s the line of thinking from where this bias comes from. No different from people discriminating their own kind on how they speak,
dress, live etc

 

[street cricketer]

The Taliban was born in Kandahar, because it is a pan-Islamic movement, there will have been support in Pakistan and other Muslim countries as well.

Pakistan is not responsible for Taliban, but would they prefer them over the racist dal khor hating northern alliance Afghans? Probably yes, and with good reason.

I'm not saying Pakistan created the Taliban but Pakistan did definitely support the Taliban in Afghanistan. There are many instances of Pakistan PMs admitting the same.

 

[Bhaijaan]

It is limited to Pakistani Punjabis.

With Indians, Afghans often talk about Bollywood movies and how much they hate Pakistanis at which we find mutually agree to a point.

Having said, racism in any form must never be encouraged.

But Pakistanis in particular are among the most racist of people. Basically all the things they mock Indians with, Afgans do it 10 times.more to them which is when they get mad. Learn to take a joke as well as you fish out.

Now that Indians have started eating protein rich diet, the daal jokes cannot be used against us Indians anymore.

 

[Local.Dada]

It is limited to Pakistani Punjabis.

With Indians, Afghans often talk about Bollywood movies and how much they hate Pakistanis at which we find mutually agree to a point.

Having said, racism in any form must never be encouraged.

But Pakistanis in particular are among the most racist of people. Basically all the things they mock Indians with, Afgans do it 10 times.more to them which is when they get mad. Learn to take a joke as well as you fish out.

Now that Indians have started eating protein rich diet, the daal jokes cannot be used against us Indians anymore.

I saw hoarding of Rashid Khan when I visited Hyderabad promoting men’s traditional wear (Sherwani etc) back in the day the face of cinthol used to be

 

[Colorblind Genius]

I know, but if I had included these, my post would be two pages long, it's already long enough!

Truth if half told, is not truth.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

.....

With Indians, Afghans often talk about Bollywood movies and how much they hate Pakistanis at which we find mutually agree to a point.

....

So you hate anyone who is a "Pakistani".

Pretty much tells about your third class mindset.

Perhaps we should send all 3 million Afghan Refugees to India so that you guys can have more mutual fun?

 

[Bhaijaan]

So you hate anyone who is a "Pakistani".

Pretty much tells about your third class mindset.

Perhaps we should send all 3 million Afghan Refugees to India so that you guys can have more mutual fun?

Calm down sweetheart.

When I say "we" I am talking about us Indians in general.

I personally like Pakistanis, they are funny.

 

[Local.Dada]

So you hate anyone who is a "Pakistani".

Pretty much tells about your third class mindset.

Perhaps we should send all 3 million Afghan Refugees to India so that you guys can have more mutual fun?

Speaking for myself I don’t hate Pakistanis but why do you guys complain about Afghan refugees, have heard this many times before. wasn’t the foundation of Pakistan on the principle that it is a safe haven for all subcontinent Muslims?

 

[street cricketer]

Truth if half told, is not truth.

My post was not about why Pakistanis have a beef with the Afghans but rather other way around, which is what the topic of the thread really is, i.e., why Afghans are racist towards Pakistanis. So I was merely pointing out the Afghan pov.

I have previously posted on all the events and provocations from the Afghan gov that led to Pakistan's retaliation in other threads.

 

[AdamM97]

Speaking for myself I don’t hate Pakistanis but why do you guys complain about Afghan refugees, have heard this many times before. wasn’t the foundation of Pakistan on the principle that it is a safe haven for all subcontinent Muslims?

Safe haven for Muslims living in British India*.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I'm not saying Pakistan created the Taliban but Pakistan did definitely support the Taliban in Afghanistan. There are many instances of Pakistan PMs admitting the same.

Of course they supported the Taliban. I gave you the reason why in that very quote. A Taliban led Afghanistan is more friendly to Pakistan than the racist northern alliance, dal khor hating Afghans.

 

[ExplicitAI]

Why do they target the Jatts specifically and how do they identify who is a Jatt and who is a Rajput?

They target Jatts because Jatts are stereotypically seen as the "elite" Punjabi and are usually landlords with high paying jobs. They work extremely hard to get the life that they want and do it by any means necessary. You can kind of tell how a Jatt looks like due to their eyes, tall slim body, slim face, pointed nose, thin lips and a deep voice. They swear a lot and have a thick Punjabi accent and are very proud of who they are. Punjabi muslims and Punjabi Sikhs are the same race, just different beliefs.

A lot of Jatts that are business owners sometimes have an Afghan working for them. If the worker makes a mistake at work, the boss will get angry. The boss isn't being racist, he's just doing his job and doesn't want the employee to make mistakes. Some afghans over time do not like being treated like this and end up getting worse and worse over time.

It's a bit difficult sometimes in terms of how to tell if a person belongs to a particular caste, you just have to meet and speak with a lot of Punjabis to tell the difference. One time I've mistaken my Pakistani Punjabi friend being a Jatt when he was a Rajput, all I had to do was ask him and he told me.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Speaking for myself I don’t hate Pakistanis but why do you guys complain about Afghan refugees, have heard this many times before. wasn’t the foundation of Pakistan on the principle that it is a safe haven for all subcontinent Muslims?

In Afghani language, there is a saying, "Nafar ki Afghan basha, Musalman neyst".

 

[ExplicitAI]

It is limited to Pakistani Punjabis.

With Indians, Afghans often talk about Bollywood movies and how much they hate Pakistanis at which we find mutually agree to a point.

Having said, racism in any form must never be encouraged.

But Pakistanis in particular are among the most racist of people. Basically all the things they mock Indians with, Afgans do it 10 times.more to them which is when they get mad. Learn to take a joke as well as you fish out.

Now that Indians have started eating protein rich diet, the daal jokes cannot be used against us Indians anymore.

Not necessarily, there's good and bad people every of all colours and races. I'd say people on both sides of the border tend to make fun of each other but they tend to have nothing going for them. Can't really look at Indians and say they are "them" and we are "us", given we are the same people and a white man decided to draw a line in the middle and cause mass migration of people. People that make fun of each other are products of the government who want them to behave in this way so that these same people can keep voting them into power, once they are into power they will loot the country and take all the money for themselves.

The idea with Indians and Pakistanis having different diets is poor in my opinion. I tend to think of it as ethnicities have different diets. Since I am a Punjabi muslim, I have the exact same diet as a Punjabi Sikh, so we have similar intakes of nutrients which would usually be different to a Pathan, Gujarati, Tamil etc.

 

[PakEngFan]

This is a great summary regarding this topic. I would also like to mention that given I am a British Pakistani, I pride myself as a Punjabi and also my caste (Jatt), I also have a lot of Sikh friends (and Pakistani friends too). I don't believe in the caste system at all but stereotypically, the Jatt is seen as the highest caste in Punjab equivalent to that of a white man in America. I have seen Afghans mainly target Jatts out of all other castes, they remain somewhat tolerant of Rajputs and other Punjabi castes but Jatts make their blood boil when seeing them. In terms of Islamic influence, I do not believe that the Afghans played a part in "converting" Punjabis. The first group of Jatts were atheists who adopted Islam due to Baba Farid, the others became Sikhs.

We understand that you are a proud jatt. But please no one will know if you are jatt or not unless you tell them otherwise. This is ludicrous to say the least. 99% people have no idea what that is in first place.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

We understand that you are a proud jatt. But please no one will know if you are jatt or not unless you tell them otherwise. This is ludicrous to say the least. 99% people have no idea what that is in first place.

Agree. Nothing wrong with anyone being proud of their heritage, but it's not really that big a deal in England anyway. Why keep banging on about it in every post, we got it the first time. These caste hierarchies don't carry that much weight over here. Not even sure they carry as much back in the old country as they used to.

 

[AdamM97]

Tbf, every minority hates on each other abroad. You should see the beef between Turks and Kurds in Europe, it’s much worse.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Tbf, every minority hates on each other abroad. You should see the beef between Turks and Kurds in Europe, it’s much worse.

Its triabalism. Many Scots hate English, many English hate Welsh etc.

There has also been a lot of hatred spread by media & national alliance for political propaganda. Pakistan has taken in millions of Afghans. The other day they saved dozens of soldiers after they were running from the Taliban.

I know some Afghans, they are nice people who respect Pakistan. Sure there are a large number of idiots but imo this is due to the parents spreading hatred.

 

[TSA321]

Since I am a Punjabi muslim, I have the exact same diet as a Punjabi Sikh, so we have similar intakes of nutrients which would usually be different to a Pathan, Gujarati, Tamil etc.

Nonsense, many Sikhs are vegetarians.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Nonsense, many Sikhs are vegetarians.

Wrong!

Only true Sikhs are vegetarian. Not the untrue Sikhs which constitute 99% of Sikhs.

Unfortunate but true

Someone had to say it.

 

[TSA321]

Wrong!

Only true Sikhs are vegetarian. Not the untrue Sikhs which constitute 99% of Sikhs.

Unfortunate but true

Someone had to say it.

According to a 2018 survey released by the registrar general of India, Rajasthan (74.9%), Haryana (69.25%), Punjab (66.75%), and Gujarat (60.95%) have the highest percentage of vegetarians.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veget...ng to a 2018 survey,Jammu & Kashmir (31.45%),

 

[ExplicitAI]

Nonsense, many Sikhs are vegetarians.

Not too sure about how many are vegetarians but I've got one friend who is vegetarian but the others also eat meat. To be honest it's really not that deep if someone doesn't choose to eat something. People can eat whatever they like.

 

[ExplicitAI]

We understand that you are a proud jatt. But please no one will know if you are jatt or not unless you tell them otherwise. This is ludicrous to say the least. 99% people have no idea what that is in first place.

I wasn't necessarily trying to get people to understand how "proud" I am of my caste. Should have worded my previous post more correctly but if I meet a person for the first time and they ask me where I'm originally from I would say I'm Pakistani. However, I do not consider myself a pro Pakistani nationalist who's obsessed over the government back home who don't care about anyone including me, politics, the Pak army and all that stuff. Most people over here in the UK don't really have time to care about these things given how much other responsibilities they have.

Agree. Nothing wrong with anyone being proud of their heritage, but it's not really that big a deal in England anyway. Why keep banging on about it in every post, we got it the first time. These caste hierarchies don't carry that much weight over here. Not even sure they carry as much back in the old country as they used to.

I do understand where you are coming from but I was just only replying to other people who have quoted me as well as highlighting how this one Punjabi caste tends to get the most hatred by others. And yeah I and others don't really care about the caste system either, however the caste system is taken more seriously back home.

 

[moghul]

And these "Punjabis" provided them security, food and shelter when million of Afghans ran way from their beloved country when invaded by the Russians.

 

[maverick85]

I don't know the obsession the majha Punjabis have with biradari community across the border. We in AJK and potohar don't share the same views as South Eastern Punjabis. We use it as a derogatory term... I find it strange

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

This is a great summary regarding this topic. I would also like to mention that given I am a British Pakistani, I pride myself as a Punjabi and also my caste (Jatt), I also have a lot of Sikh friends (and Pakistani friends too). I don't believe in the caste system at all but stereotypically, the Jatt is seen as the highest caste in Punjab equivalent to that of a white man in America. I have seen Afghans mainly target Jatts out of all other castes, they remain somewhat tolerant of Rajputs and other Punjabi castes but Jatts make their blood boil when seeing them. In terms of Islamic influence, I do not believe that the Afghans played a part in "converting" Punjabis. The first group of Jatts were atheists who adopted Islam due to Baba Farid, the others became Sikhs.

Say what? I doubt Afghans would be able to tell who is a Jatt and who is Rajput.

 

[Giannis]

Just an observation I thought imran Khan was a Pashtun etc but when I hear him speak Urdu he sounds like a typical Punjabi for example the way he says “Apne Ghabrana nahi hai” etc on the other hand I have heard Rashid Khan and Nabi speak Urdu while giving interviews in IPL they sound like what a stereotypical Pathan accent would sound like.

May be it stems from there kind of like how Afridi called Irfan Pathan a naqli Pathan or something.

Imran Khan's ancestors settled in Punjab centuries ago, there are many Pashtun tribes settled in Punjab that only speak Punjabi or Saraiki now - Misbah is also from the same tribe and town as Imran Khan. Pashtuns from the Pashto speaking areas will obviously still have a Pashto accent like Shaheen and Umar Gul

 

[Bhaijaan]

Pakistanis dish out racism every day based on race, ethnicity, skin colour, tribe,religion but they cannot take it when Afghans bully them worse.

/thread

The dilemma and frustration is understandable. Being outnumbered ny one community and over powered by the other makes for a terrible situation to be in as a natural racist.

 

[ExplicitAI]

Pakistanis dish out racism every day based on race, ethnicity, skin colour, tribe,religion but they cannot take it when Afghans bully them worse.

/thread

The dilemma and frustration is understandable. Being outnumbered ny one community and over powered by the other makes for a terrible situation to be in as a natural racist.

Poor post. There's good and bad people in every country. As for Pakistanis not being able to take bullying from Afghans I've seen a lot of them retaliate back with great force once realisation hits them that the warm feelings were never reciprocated. Some Pakistanis are taken aback of how Afghans treat them because they don't seem to see them in the same light in in regards to religion. Overall it's the delinquents who get into fights whereas the educated ones don't take part in such things.

 

[ExplicitAI]

I don't know the obsession the majha Punjabis have with biradari community across the border. We in AJK and potohar don't share the same views as South Eastern Punjabis. We use it as a derogatory term... I find it strange

Because the most of the people in AJK and potohar are ethnically Punjabi that speak a different dialect and think they are Kashmiris when they're not ) This is what happens when people go through colonisation and forget their roots.

 

[maverick85]

Because the most of the people in AJK and potohar are ethnically Punjabi that speak a different dialect and think they are Kashmiris when they're not ) This is what happens when people go through colonisation and forget their roots.

Yes we are ethnically Punjabi but we don't share the same fondness for your biradari across the border, which is why I commented it's strange coming from our neck of the woods. Your fondness for Ranjit and the supposed prestige it brings to your majhi speaking community is just odd for us guys. That's all.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Yes we are ethnically Punjabi but we don't share the same fondness for your biradari across the border, which is why I commented it's strange coming from our neck of the woods. Your fondness for Ranjit and the supposed prestige it brings to your majhi speaking community is just odd for us guys. That's all.

You'd be hard pressed to find many Pakistani Punjabis who would be singing songs about Ranjit Singh. You only find this type of stuff online mostly, and who can vouch for the authenticity of anonymous posters?

 

[ExplicitAI]

Yes we are ethnically Punjabi but we don't share the same fondness for your biradari across the border, which is why I commented it's strange coming from our neck of the woods. Your fondness for Ranjit and the supposed prestige it brings to your majhi speaking community is just odd for us guys. That's all.

Never really had a fondness for him, was just mainly highlighting the issue of where the initial problems have possibly come from. A lot of rulers from various rulers such as Ranjit and Aurangzeb were tyrants in my eyes. I really don't get why some Pakistanis get irked when talking about asians from another religion when it really isn't that deep.

You'd be hard pressed to find many Pakistani Punjabis who would be singing songs about Ranjit Singh. You only find this type of stuff online mostly, and who can vouch for the authenticity of anonymous posters?

Hardly any Pakistani Punjabis would be singing his praises given some of the things he did but he did manage to push the Afghans back out of Punjab. People like Aurangzeb are worshipped in Pakistan because he was a practicing muslim but the thing is that he was seen as a tyrant to non muslims in India.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Never really had a fondness for him, was just mainly highlighting the issue of where the initial problems have possibly come from. A lot of rulers from various rulers such as Ranjit and Aurangzeb were tyrants in my eyes. I really don't get why some Pakistanis get irked when talking about asians from another religion when it really isn't that deep.



Hardly any Pakistani Punjabis would be singing his praises given some of the things he did but he did manage to push the Afghans back out of Punjab. People like Aurangzeb are worshipped in Pakistan because he was a practicing muslim but the thing is that he was seen as a tyrant to non muslims in India.

Why would Pakistanis care about Ranjit Singh pushing Afghans out of Punjab? Unless your own name is Ranjit or Gurpreet maybe.

For Punjabi Sikhs and Hindus he may be seen as a hero, this predates Pakistan however.

 

[ExplicitAI]

Why would Pakistanis care about Ranjit Singh pushing Afghans out of Punjab? Unless your own name is Ranjit or Gurpreet maybe.

For Punjabi Sikhs and Hindus he may be seen as a hero, this predates Pakistan however.

Because a lot of the frictions between Punjabis and Afghans have stemmed from those times as well. Ranjit Singh also had Punjabi muslims on his side as well when they fought the Afghans so I wouldn't be surprised if the animosity for Punjabis dates back to that time period.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Because a lot of the frictions between Punjabis and Afghans have stemmed from those times as well. Ranjit Singh also had Punjabi muslims on his side as well when they fought the Afghans so I wouldn't be surprised if the animosity for Punjabis dates back to that time period.

90% of Pakistanis won't know about this friction, it is from battles between Sikhs and Afghans. All the animosity is to this day between those two ethnicities. Are you actually a Pakistani? I had assumed you were, now I'm realising you may be a Sikh so apologies for misconstruing if this is the case.

 

[ExplicitAI]

90% of Pakistanis won't know about this friction, it is from battles between Sikhs and Afghans. All the animosity is to this day between those two ethnicities. Are you actually a Pakistani? I had assumed you were, now I'm realising you may be a Sikh so apologies for misconstruing if this is the case.

I'm Pakistani, just not biased when it comes to my own country since I never grew up there. When researching and looking up on the history of certain provinces of Pakistan (such as Punjab, Sindh, KPK etc), you do tend to come across certain information such as this. Just because I'm aware of Ranjit Singh ruling Punjab at one point via research doesn't mean I'm Sikh, and for me to be a patriotic Pakistani I don't have to start being ignorant to certain events or cherry pick certain aspects about Pakistan to make me feel better about myself.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I'm Pakistani, just not biased when it comes to my own country since I never grew up there. When researching and looking up on the history of certain provinces of Pakistan (such as Punjab, Sindh, KPK etc), you do tend to come across certain information such as this. Just because I'm aware of Ranjit Singh ruling Punjab at one point via research doesn't mean I'm Sikh, and for me to be a patriotic Pakistani I don't have to start being ignorant to certain events or cherry pick certain aspects about Pakistan to make me feel better about myself.

I know about Ranjit Singh only because I come to sites like this, to be honest, 90% of Pakistanis don't so probably have no idea who he is. I'm not cherry picking here, just not interested either way. Why would I need to do any of that since I am a Brit/Pakistani and have no dog in this fight?

I think it might be you who is cherry picking with the Punjab angle. Because Ranjit Singh was a Punjabi, you feel you share some kinship with him. Fair enough, but most Pakistanis don't as Pakistan was created on the basis of being a homeland for Muslims of the subcontinent, not a Sikh empire.

 

[ExplicitAI]

I know about Ranjit Singh only because I come to sites like this, to be honest, 90% of Pakistanis don't so probably have no idea who he is. I'm not cherry picking here, just not interested either way. Why would I need to do any of that since I am a Brit/Pakistani and have no dog in this fight?

I think it might be you who is cherry picking with the Punjab angle. Because Ranjit Singh was a Punjabi, you feel you share some kinship with him. Fair enough, but most Pakistanis don't as Pakistan was created on the basis of being a homeland for Muslims of the subcontinent, not a Sikh empire.

That's the same with me, I found out about him due to stumbling on certain threads where his name was mentioned. Although you are a Brit/Pakistani like me, there is a chance that even you could experience racism from a minority of Afghans due to their own personal beliefs which is what I was highlighting in this thread.

I may belong to the same ethnic race (Punjabi) as Ranjit Singh but he was known to convert mosques into horse stables which is why I've been critical of him in some aspects, just like how I'm critical of Aurangzeb who was tough on non-muslims in India even though he was a devout muslim. I'd rather not see any of these two as role models or someone I'd look up to as I don't care for either of them.

Whilst Pakistan was created as a homeland for muslims, the attitude of a majority of people is similar to that of India in which certain ethnicities would only choose to marry with their own. For example, certain Punjabi castes would only marry someone of the same caste as them and would show distaste if you was to mention the thought of marrying out of your caste. Urdu is only spoken as a first language by less than 10% of the country and it was made for people to speak to other ethnicities in the country, Punjabi is the most spoken language.