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The battle of the keepers, Rishabh Pant versus Mohammad Rizwan

You put any permutation and combination removing Rizwan I don’t think Pak would have gotten more than 147.

Also 147 in Srilankan conditions against Srilankan team with a full strength squad is not a dire situation.

Not calling it a great knock but not even 10% of the problem.

55 runs + 1 catch when the next highest score is 32(31) is not his fault. Cricket has X1 players each team.
The match was played in Dubai, not in Sri Lanka. The conditions in Dubai favor the chasing team. It's worth noting that two players faced almost two thirds of the total balls and scored approximately half of the runs. While you are criticizing others who had no choice but to go for boundries from the first ball of their innings?
 
Rizwan is more of a Dravid kind batsman, Pant is more of a Sehwag kind(different positions).

In current situation India requires Pant and Pak requires Rizwan.
Actually India requires Pant and India requires Rizwan - to have the best shot at winning.
 
Healy was a member of a great team. Rizzu is a great member of an ordinary team. Hence you feel this way.
No, I feel this way because I factually know that Healy didn't act like a clown faking injuries, blocking side screens and making nonsense interviews.

Nor did healy ever replace an actual batsmen. He played in an era where specialist keepers use to be a thing and they'd typically bat at 7 or 8. Infact Headly use to bat at 9 lol.

Keepers of the past like Moin Khan etc were tail enders mostly and were their to keep. Adam Gilchrist changed the game.

This is what you people don't get, specialist keepers cannot replace batsmen, openers cannot replace openers and middle order bats cannot replace MO bats. In this era we have keepers who are openers yes, but they have to be generational talents and actually justify their place like Butler and quinton have.

Stop hiding behind this keeping and allrounder clause. You need to decide what rizwan is

A) Is he an opener

B) Is he a middle order batter

Or is he a specialist keeper?

^^ you hiding behind this allrounder nonsense proves that you yourself don't believe in Rizwan being capable of solely justifying one position hence you hide behind multiple things at once.
 
The match was played in Dubai, not in Sri Lanka. The conditions in Dubai favor the chasing team. It's worth noting that two players faced almost two thirds of the total balls and scored approximately half of the runs. While you are criticizing others who had no choice but to go for boundries from the first ball of their innings?
Just revisited the score card.

Let’s see my take- Srilanka made 170 from 58-5- was Rizwan the captain/coach? Was he the bowler? He took a catch and usually a safe pair of gloves- did his job. Where do you find fault here?

2nd innings- Pak 147

Rizwan 55(48) which means he was steady enough to score almost at the RR. Thats how these 140-180 scores are chased. So his team mates should have scored less than 100 in 12 overs against somewhat average attack that too in the T10 era.

Assuming 8,9,10,11 are tailenders who cannot hold the bat, the remaining 6 batsmen flopped so least sensible thing to do is blame the guy who out his hand up and tried atleast.
 
Just revisited the score card.

Let’s see my take- Srilanka made 170 from 58-5- was Rizwan the captain/coach? Was he the bowler? He took a catch and usually a safe pair of gloves- did his job. Where do you find fault here?

2nd innings- Pak 147

Rizwan 55(48) which means he was steady enough to score almost at the RR. Thats how these 140-180 scores are chased. So his team mates should have scored less than 100 in 12 overs against somewhat average attack that too in the T10 era.

Assuming 8,9,10,11 are tailenders who cannot hold the bat, the remaining 6 batsmen flopped so least sensible thing to do is blame the guy who out his hand up and tried atleast.
Wow

So you seriously believe Rizwan did his role as an opener and everyone else is to blame for this game?
 
Just revisited the score card.

Let’s see my take- Srilanka made 170 from 58-5- was Rizwan the captain/coach? Was he the bowler? He took a catch and usually a safe pair of gloves- did his job. Where do you find fault here?

2nd innings- Pak 147

Rizwan 55(48) which means he was steady enough to score almost at the RR. Thats how these 140-180 scores are chased. So his team mates should have scored less than 100 in 12 overs against somewhat average attack that too in the T10 era.

Assuming 8,9,10,11 are tailenders who cannot hold the bat, the remaining 6 batsmen flopped so least sensible thing to do is blame the guy who out his hand up and tried atleast.
This is the most skewed piece of reality and a total fabrication of a lie that I have seen, It is an insult to those who saw the match live.

First of Sri Lanka gave 11 wides before the first ball was even bowled and hence the target was 157 and not 170.

Secondly not only did rizwan waste the first over deapite being given an 11 run headstart, both rizwan and chacha were batting together on the 3rd over and chacha made 32 of 31 and departed in 13.3 overs with exactly 93 on the board. This means that excluding extras, by the 13th over, both rizwan and chacha only contributed 79 on the board out 63 deliveries.

Then afterwards by the 16th over rizwan departed and the scorecard at the time was 110 meaning only 17 runs were contributed in 18 deliveries and by the time Rizwan departed the team needed to chase 60 of 23?

Youre gonna blame the team for not being able to chase 60 of 23 with only 5 wickets in hand but not chacha and rizwan who collectively batted 13 overs for a RR of less the even 5?
 
This is the most skewed piece of reality and a total fabrication of a lie that I have seen, It is an insult to those who saw the match live.

First of Sri Lanka gave 11 wides before the first ball was even bowled and hence the target was 157 and not 170.

Secondly not only did rizwan waste the first over deapite being given an 11 run headstart, both rizwan and chacha were batting together on the 3rd over and chacha made 32 of 31 and departed in 13.3 overs with exactly 93 on the board. This means that excluding extras, by the 13th over, both rizwan and chacha only contributed 79 on the board out 63 deliveries.

Then afterwards by the 16th over rizwan departed and the scorecard at the time was 110 meaning only 17 runs were contributed in 18 deliveries and by the time Rizwan departed the team needed to chase 60 of 23?

Youre gonna blame the team for not being able to chase 60 of 23 with only 5 wickets in hand but not chacha and rizwan who collectively batted 13 overs for a RR of less the even 5?

Ifthikar should get the blame.only 25%, the rest 75% should fall on captain, coaching staff and bowlers for letting the match slip away. From 58-5, max score should have been 120 in that situation. Anyway you might still probably find a problem why 120 wasn’t chased down in the power play.
 
Ifthikar should get the blame.only 25%, the rest 75% should fall on captain, coaching staff and bowlers for letting the match slip away. From 58-5, max score should have been 120 in that situation. Anyway you might still probably find a problem why 120 wasn’t chased down in the power play.
More nonsense

It’s T20 cricket. Australia let Pakistan score 176 at Dubai, what did they do? Sulk about it? Blame the captain and management to allow Pakistan score that many runs? Or did they man up like real cricketers who know this game do and went head on to take the target down?
 
Ifthikar should get the blame.only 25%, the rest 75% should fall on captain, coaching staff and bowlers for letting the match slip away. From 58-5, max score should have been 120 in that situation. Anyway you might still probably find a problem why 120 wasn’t chased down in the power play.
Absolutely not, if I was to actually assign proper percentages it would be

Rizwan= 35%
Chacha= 25%
Bowlers= 20%
Captain=15%
Fielders =3%
Rest of the batsmen= 2%

Don't play these percentages games with me, 55 of 49 in a run chase is unacceptable in a t20 game lol, idk which planet you live on if you think those numbers are acceptable for chasing 170 to 180 totals, that's 8.1 overs of going at 6RR in a game that requires 8RR meaning mathematically you're asking the batters at the other end to go for 12 RR from their own end to cover up for your lack of incompetence.
 
More nonsense

It’s T20 cricket. Australia let Pakistan score 176 at Dubai, what did they do? Sulk about it? Blame the captain and management to allow Pakistan score that many runs? Or did they man up like real cricketers who know this game do and went head on to take the target down?
Good example. Game was finished by middle order and the rrr did get a little out of hand there also.
 
More nonsense

It’s T20 cricket. Australia let Pakistan score 176 at Dubai, what did they do? Sulk about it? Blame the captain and management to allow Pakistan score that many runs? Or did they man up like real cricketers who know this game do and went head on to take the target down?
I saw the entire asia cup final live, that was the day I started hating rizwam and chacha as before 2022 I use to back them and thought twitter was insane.

That game is itched into my memory every part. Ain't no one making false narratives and sneaking it past me.
 
Absolutely not, if I was to actually assign proper percentages it would be

Rizwan= 35%
Chacha= 25%
Bowlers= 20%
Captain=15%
Fielders =3%
Rest of the batsmen= 2%

Don't play these percentages games with me, 55 of 49 in a run chase is unacceptable in a t20 game lol, idk which planet you live on if you think those numbers are acceptable for chasing 170 to 180 totals, that's 8.1 overs of going at 6RR in a game that requires 8RR meaning mathematically you're asking the batters at the other end to go for 12 RR from their own end to cover up for your lack of incompetence.
Wah bhai, salute. You are giving 60% blame to 2 batsmen when 9 other bats failed or atleast 5 other main bats, bowlers and team management let the game slip away after having opposition on the ropes at 58-5? So in your world getting out for a duck is better than doing something. Understood.
 
That’s not totally wrong though. Pant’s alternatives are KL Rahul, Ishan Kishan, Dhruv Jurel, Sanju Samson, Jitesh Sharma. most of them have some qualities maybe better than Pant or in some cases they are behind Pant.

Rizwan’s alternatives are Sarfaraz, Azam Khan and Haris ( correct me on this one if I am wrong)

Do I need to expand or elaborate?
not talking about alternatives, it was said and not my words, Rizwaan is playing with out of form or mediocre players nwjilst Pant plays with GOATS...the inference being Rizwans runs count for more...


If that is the case then surely SRTs runs need to be multiplied by 1.5 and Srinaths bowling stats need to be looked at with same lens...

What's good for the goose and all that...
 
Wah bhai, salute. You are giving 60% blame to 2 batsmen when 9 other bats failed or atleast 5 other main bats, bowlers and team management let the game slip away after having opposition on the ropes at 58-5? So in your world getting out for a duck is better than doing something. Understood.
100% when those 2 batters expect the rest of the middle order to chase 60 of 23? Don't be a hypocrite and change narratives. Only babar is to be blamed for throwing his early wicket away and ig fakhar for failing straight after.

The whole game was chacha and rizwan batting till 16th and vanishing leaving the rest to chase 60 of 23.

You go and chase 60 of 23 as an incoming fresh batter and tell me it's all sunshine and rainbows.
 
Wah bhai, salute. You are giving 60% blame to 2 batsmen when 9 other bats failed or atleast 5 other main bats, bowlers and team management let the game slip away after having opposition on the ropes at 58-5? So in your world getting out for a duck is better than doing something. Understood.
Who gets a higher percentage of blame for Pakistan not scoring 6 off 4 balls in Joburg 2007? Misbah who was facing Joginder Sharma for those runs needed or Afridi for getting out for a 0(1) in the same match?
 
Who gets a higher percentage of blame for Pakistan not scoring 6 off 4 balls in Joburg 2007? Misbah who was facing Joginder Sharma for those runs needed or Afridi for getting out for a 0(1) in the same match?
His point would only be valid if rizwan wasn't a God damn opener and chacha didn't get his darling wish to finally bat at no 4 according to @gazza619 as chavha should be a no 4.

He got his dream wish, Chacha comes early, Rizwan is opening, Opposition gave 11 wides before 1st ball even was bowled and both Babar and fakhar depart with no contribution so no damage done in terms of RR.

Chacha and rizzu now have a whole game to chase, full 20 overs to bat, and what do they do?

Get put and leave 5 batters to chase 60 of 23? Hahahaha.

Such clownery to those who thick chacha shpuld bat at no 4 and rizwan should be all format opener.
 
100% when those 2 batters expect the rest of the middle order to chase 60 of 23? Don't be a hypocrite and change narratives. Only babar is to be blamed for throwing his early wicket away and ig fakhar for failing straight after.

The whole game was chacha and rizwan batting till 16th and vanishing leaving the rest to chase 60 of 23.

You go and chase 60 of 23 as an incoming fresh batter and tell me it's all sunshine and rainbows.
Maybe I am approaching this the wrong way, let me try this way, if one team is 58-5 and the other team struggles to get to 150, maybe it was not the easiest pitch. Only 1 guy played a freak innings, so maybe 170 was over- par, who gets the blame then? As far as I remember those weren’t exactly Bangalore type pitches in that tournament, were they?
 
His point would only be valid if rizwan wasn't a God damn opener and chacha didn't get his darling wish to finally bat at no 4 according to @gazza619 as chavha should be a no 4.

He got his dream wish, Chacha comes early, Rizwan is opening, Opposition gave 11 wides before 1st ball even was bowled and both Babar and fakhar depart with no contribution so no damage done in terms of RR.

Chacha and rizzu now have a whole game to chase, full 20 overs to bat, and what do they do?

Get put and leave 5 batters to chase 60 of 23? Hahahaha.

Such clownery to those who thick chacha shpuld bat at no 4 and rizwan should be all format opener.
That was a classical KPK choke job. They won’t like to hear it. But it’s the truth, these guys have been bottling everything in Pakistan cricket too recently
 
Rizwan was one of the biggest culprits against India this year.

His game awareness was non-existent. It was blindingly obvious to see that it was going to get harder to score runs as the ball got softer and also as the pitch got slower during the innings.

He then decides to smash Bumrah of all bowlers.

Garbage innings from an overrated batsman.

Him and Iftikhar were the biggest culprits in that run chase.

Ultimately, Misbah is accountable. He’s the one who promoted Rizwan as an opener/top order player and created a clone of himself in Ifti.
 
Who gets a higher percentage of blame for Pakistan not scoring 6 off 4 balls in Joburg 2007? Misbah who was facing Joginder Sharma for those runs needed or Afridi for getting out for a 0(1) in the same match?
A good example would be Afghanistan vs Australia in worldcup. Maxwell played a freak innings kind of like Rajapaksa at a much larger scale, Aussie line up flopped, Afghan put a par score. No one cares they ran through the top order of Aussies, it was pedestrian bowling and terrible captaincy. This game was more or less in the same bracket, difference is weaker team lost in this case of Aus vs Afg
 
Rizwan was one of the biggest culprits against India this year.

His game awareness was non-existent. It was blindingly obvious to see that it was going to get harder to score runs as the ball got softer and also as the pitch got slower during the innings.

He then decides to smash Bumrah of all bowlers.

Garbage innings from an overrated batsman.

Him and Iftikhar were the biggest culprits in that run chase.

Ultimately, Misbah is accountable. He’s the one who promoted Rizwan as an opener/top order player and created a clone of himself in Ifti.
Bro a lot of people are forgetting Rizwan’s earlier typical bongi where he was dropped by Dube at fine leg.

It was as if destiny had it for this man to be exposed for the clown he truly is. He was actually out on 10 or something
 
Maybe I am approaching this the wrong way, let me try this way, if one team is 58-5 and the other team struggles to get to 150, maybe it was not the easiest pitch. Only 1 guy played a freak innings, so maybe 170 was over- par, who gets the blame then? As far as I remember those weren’t exactly Bangalore type pitches in that tournament, were they?
You are approaching it the wrong way because you have closed out your mind towards understanding how the game works.

You win the toss and bowl first…Boy you better be ready to chase 220 if you must knowing the team can go hard and have a good day. There are never any guarantees in this game, 55-5…so what? They could have got 130…140 still if they just grind it out for a bit. That’s how the game works, I don’t necessarily blame the captain or bowlers. The score is 170, runs on the board but still, you know that could have been a total you would be chasing when you take the risk of bowling first in a final.

Then, you had 10 runs knocked off before a legitimate ball was delivered…so you are back to your comfort zone of 160.

Pakistan have NO EXCUSES. There are people who had been SCREAMING about Rizwan and Babar’s pathetic intent during the powerplay and also how they seem to think it is Ok for openers to play an innings building game instead of carrying on the hammer as most proper T20 openers do post powerplay

The two frauds have been playing the game wrong, and they were brutally exposed that day. You people still do not see it. You will never see it.
 
Maybe I am approaching this the wrong way, let me try this way, if one team is 58-5 and the other team struggles to get to 150, maybe it was not the easiest pitch. Only 1 guy played a freak innings, so maybe 170 was over- par, who gets the blame then? As far as I remember those weren’t exactly Bangalore type pitches in that tournament, were they?
Rizwan didn't play a freak innings. A freak innings is what Pant played on a minefield pitch ensuring his 50 gets India to an above par total on a pitch where 110 is par. A freak innings qith what Maxwell played against afghanistan.

A freak innings is what das played when his side was bundled up and almost forced to follow on.

Rizwan scoring 55 of 49 and chacha scoring 32 of 31 both of these 2 jokers collectively batting for 16.1 overs and leaving the side for dead is not A freak innings, regardless of the pitch and conditons, its a very very very poor and match loosing innings.

cricket is a team sport, not a rizwan sport. His 55 and him top scpring does not matter. Here are the facts

A) Rizwam and chacha batted all the way till the 16 and have the entire innings

B) Both departed and left the rest to chase 60 of 23

^^ That's all their is
 
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You are approaching it the wrong way because you have closed out your mind towards understanding how the game works.

You win the toss and bowl first…Boy you better be ready to chase 220 if you must knowing the team can go hard and have a good day. There are never any guarantees in this game, 55-5…so what? They could have got 130…140 still if they just grind it out for a bit. That’s how the game works, I don’t necessarily blame the captain or bowlers. The score is 170, runs on the board but still, you know that could have been a total you would be chasing when you take the risk of bowling first in a final.

Then, you had 10 runs knocked off before a legitimate ball was delivered…so you are back to your comfort zone of 160.

Pakistan have NO EXCUSES. There are people who had been SCREAMING about Rizwan and Babar’s pathetic intent during the powerplay and also how they seem to think it is Ok for openers to play an innings building game instead of carrying on the hammer as most proper T20 openers do post powerplay

The two frauds have been playing the game wrong, and they were brutally exposed that day. You people still do not see it. You will never see it.
He hasn't closed his mind, he's changing the narrative altogether to avoid blame on rizwan.

The first narrative was that rizwan batted beautifully and the team failed him. I exposed that and the 2nd narrative was that only chacha and the bowlers and the captain is to be blamed. I exposed that and now the narrative is that only bowlers are to be blamed and rizwan was superman on a difficult pitch. I exposed that just now, so lets see what the 4th narrative will be.
 
Rizwan didn't play a freak innings. A freak innings is what Pant played on a minefield pitch ensuring his 50 gets India to an above par total on a pitch where 110 is par. A freak innings qith what Maxwell played against afghanistan.

A freak innings is what das played when his side was bundled up and almost forced to follow on.

Rizwan scoring 55 of 49 and chacha scoring 32 of 31 both of these 2 jokers collectively batting for 16.1 overs and leaving the side for dead is not A freak innings, regardless of the pitch and conditons, its a very very very poor and match loosing innings.

cricket is a team sport, not a rizwan sport. His 55 and him top scpring does not matter. Here are the facts

A) Rizwam and chacha batted all the way till the 16 and have the entire innings

B) Both departed and left the rest to chase 60 of 23

^^ That's all their is
Oh wait did I miss something, so Rizwan’s 55 off 49 (it was 49 off 47 until he slog swept Hasaranga for a six the ball before) was a freak T20 openers innings according to local dada?
 
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Oh wait did I miss something, so Rizwan’s 55 off 49 (it was 49 off 47 until he slog swept Hasaranga for a six the ball before) was a freak T20 openers innings according to local dada?
The target was 66 of 25 and rizzu was offstrike. He came on strike on the 16th, He struck a 6, making the target 60 of 24 and then got out next delivery 🤣🤣
 
Oh wait did I miss something, so Rizwan’s 55 off 49 (it was 49 off 47 until he slog swept Hasaranga for a six the ball before) was a freak T20 openers innings according to local dada?
He misunderstood me. I said Rajapaksa played a freak innings and came out of syllabus to take the game away.It happens.
 
He misunderstood me. I said Rajapaksa played a freak innings and came out of syllabus to take the game away.It happens.
Hasanranga who can't even bat hit 36 of 21, so no the pitch wasn't difficult. Tail enders regardless of bowling quality don't hit 36 of 21.

The top order collapsed. It happens, happened to Bangladesh as well this test but they recovered.

No one is saying the bowlers are not at fault, But you're a hypocrite if you claim rizzu isn't and try pulling narratives to disprove it, You have no proof of any of your claims. What's this maybe? You either prove it or dont
 
not talking about alternatives, it was said and not my words, Rizwaan is playing with out of form or mediocre players nwjilst Pant plays with GOATS...the inference being Rizwans runs count for more...


If that is the case then surely SRTs runs need to be multiplied by 1.5 and Srinaths bowling stats need to be looked at with same lens...

What's good for the goose and all that...
The other thing being SRT has often been accused by Pakistanis ( east and West) of being a boring accumulator and stat padder, yet when it comes to Rizwan some biased posters post Rizwans runs and averages to bolster their case against Pant, which leaves the door open for case of stat
padding for MR.

But some are so swept in their bias, that they get shot down by hypocrisy of their own posts...

Once an ee...it always an ee...it
 
He misunderstood me. I said Rajapaksa played a freak innings and came out of syllabus to take the game away.It happens.
Ok see you should be careful when defending someone like Rizwan…it just opens up doors for very comical misunderstandings…nothing good will come out of defending comedy as if your life depends on it.
 
No, I feel this way because I factually know that Healy didn't act like a clown faking injuries, blocking side screens and making nonsense interviews.

Nor did healy ever replace an actual batsmen. He played in an era where specialist keepers use to be a thing and they'd typically bat at 7 or 8. Infact Headly use to bat at 9 lol.

Keepers of the past like Moin Khan etc were tail enders mostly and were their to keep. Adam Gilchrist changed the game.

This is what you people don't get, specialist keepers cannot replace batsmen, openers cannot replace openers and middle order bats cannot replace MO bats. In this era we have keepers who are openers yes, but they have to be generational talents and actually justify their place like Butler and quinton have.

Stop hiding behind this keeping and allrounder clause. You need to decide what rizwan is

A) Is he an opener

B) Is he a middle order batter

Or is he a specialist keeper?

^^ you hiding behind this allrounder nonsense proves that you yourself don't believe in Rizwan being capable of solely justifying one position hence you hide behind multiple things at once.
Rizwan is Pakistan’s best allrounder currently. Prove me with facts not your gut feeling that I am wrong.
 
Rizwan could have been a part of Misbah’s good team….why didn’t Misbah think he was good enough for him during his own playing days?

He destroys Sarfaraz’s career to make Rizwan work once he retires and comes into coaching…and then what happened? Pakistan cricket? Down the loo?
Misbah is responsible for his own career. Sarfaraz is responsible for his own career. Rizzu is responsible for his own.

Lets not give credit or blame others, shall we.
 
Misbah is responsible for his own career. Sarfaraz is responsible for his own career. Rizzu is responsible for his own.

Lets not give credit or blame others, shall we.
Misbah is fully a part of destroying Sarfaraz’s career and making Rizwan’s career. Don’t try to deny this.
 
In T20 games, being a top scorer is useless if it means you make the job impossible for others.

One batsman made 50% runs so he shouldn't be criticized is very wrong way to go. I mean, you can score run a ball kind of knock and then leave others to score 70 in 30 balls. Off course they will get out while trying to score that fast and then you can't say that look others scored only 5 runs or 10 runs, while one batsman scored 50% of runs. No one is buying this stats padding and all format batsman ranking.
 
You are the one coming with false claims.

Onus is on you I am afraid.
No it’s not. You are the one who is denying the truth. The onus is on you to open your eyes towards reality. I doubt you will ever btw
 
Rizwan is Pakistan’s best allrounder currently. Prove me with facts not your gut feeling that I am wrong.
Yes, because he isn't an allrounder at all 🤣🤣.

You realise a keeper bat does not classify as an allrounder?
 
Pant 'bechara' is not even mentioned in this thread. Rizwan is riding every thread easily. Not sure why
 
What is Fakhar’s second facet?
Theirs no such thing as wicket keeper allrounder and taking the definition of allrounder from Wikipedia does zilch.

Cricketing terms in this scenario are

1) Opening Batter
2) Middle order batter
3) Lower order batter
4) Wicketkeeper batsmen
5) Batting allrounder
6) Bowling allrounder
7) Tail ender
8) Right arm fast
9) Left arm fast
10) Right arm medium-fast
11) Left arm medium-fast
12) Right arm medium
13) Left arm medium
14) Right arm orthdox/ offspin
15) Left arm orthodox
16) Right arm wrist spin/ Left arm wrist spin

Theirs no such thing as wicket keeper allrounder.
 
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Compare rizwan with another keeper PANT that is the topic of the thread. Stop with this irrelevant stuff about fakhar etc etc.
 
So let’s get this straight…

If you replace Dhoni with this version of Rizwan for the Indian national team in every capacity (including captain and then vc to Kohli)….India would have achieved much more?
India would achieve the same in white ball cricket because Dhoni’s role was not critical. He was just glorified by the media.

In Test cricket, you would see a difference especially overseas because Rizwan is a superior batsman and his additional runs would have benefited India.
 
Rizwan is one of the best wicketkeeper batters in the world right now (not T20) who has the unfortunate luck of being born a Pakistani. No matter how good he is, it will never fully be reflected because of the team he plays for.

Pant is a fantastic talent who has the benefit of playing for a team that allows him to go out and play some fairly brainless cricket sometimes. Because he has top quality batters coming in before him who are tasked with playing more responsibly. And more often than not, they do just that.

There is a big difference between coming in at 300-5 and coming in at 90-5. Thankfully for Pant, he has not had to be in many 90-5 type situations in his career
 
Theirs no such thing as wicket keeper allrounder and taking the definition of allrounder from Wikipedia does zilch.

Cricketing terms in this scenario are

1) Opening Batter
2) Middle order batter
3) Lower order batter
4) Wicketkeeper batsmen
5) Batting allrounder
6) Bowling allrounder
7) Tail ender
8) Right arm fast
9) Left arm fast
10) Right arm medium-fast
11) Left arm medium-fast
12) Right arm medium
13) Left arm medium
14) Right arm orthdox/ offspin
15) Left arm orthodox
16) Right arm wrist spin/ Left arm wrist spin

Theirs no such thing as wicket keeper allrounder.
You havent answered my question though. Please enlighten me how Fakhar is an allrounder.

You clearly havent thought it through, have you. Just putting all energy in hating Riz. It happens.
 
Rizwan’s not fit enough to lace Pants boots.. but by Pak standards (all a be it the bar is not very high) he is paks ATG w/k batsman.
 
Rizwan was one of the biggest culprits against India this year.

His game awareness was non-existent. It was blindingly obvious to see that it was going to get harder to score runs as the ball got softer and also as the pitch got slower during the innings.

He then decides to smash Bumrah of all bowlers.

Garbage innings from an overrated batsman.

Him and Iftikhar were the biggest culprits in that run chase.

Ultimately, Misbah is accountable. He’s the one who promoted Rizwan as an opener/top order player and created a clone of himself in Ifti.
He surely was one of the biggest culprits and so was Fakhar. They both perished while going for glory shots even though the pitch was not suitable for such strokeplay and they witnessed the Indian batsmen perishing in similar fashion.

But the single biggest culprit was Imad Wasim whose so-called coolness under pressure and game awareness were brutally exposed and one innings was all it took for the myths to be busted.

When Rizwan got out, Pakistan needed 40 in 35 balls with 6 wickets in hand. It was a tailor-made situation for Imad Wasim - all he needed to do was nudge the ball around.

It was the exact situation that his fans claimed that he would be perfect in. If he didn’t play that game and Pakistan lost from that situation, his fans would have claimed that if Imad played, he would have won the match for Pakistan by batting according to the situation unlike others.

The next over after Bumrah’s, the Axar Patel one, turned the game upside down thanks to Imad who has a rabbit in headlights. The way he played and missed almost the entire over was embarrassing to watch. It not only killed Pakistan’s chances but pretty much killed his reputation as well.
 
You havent answered my question though. Please enlighten me how Fakhar is an allrounder.

You clearly havent thought it through, have you. Just putting all energy in hating Riz. It happens.
Fakhar bowled in CT 2017 so he's an allrounder.

Saud can bowl so he's an allrounder

Babar cam also bowl so he's an allrounder, Kohli has bowled in 2012 so he's an allrounder 🫠
 
It is not about comparison. I hate all comparison threads as I think they are dumb.
Now it’s not about comparison? You said Rizwan is an all-rounder because he has two facets to his game…

So we compare him to others like Sobers and Botham who also have 2 facets to their game? Just say yes or no.
 
Now it’s not about comparison? You said Rizwan is an all-rounder because he has two facets to his game…

So we compare him to others like Sobers and Botham who also have 2 facets to their game? Just say yes or no.
Like I said comparing players specially from different eras is low IQ stuff and I dont want to waste my energy.
 
Ok you win 🙂👍
Why are you being so sarcastic? Your idea of an allrounder is that they need to just have 2 facets of the game and that their skill is totally irrelevant correct?

Rizwan is a medicore batter and an okayish keeper, so why do you have an issue with me claiming kohli is an allrounder when he's a gun batter and a medicore bowler?
 
There is a big difference between coming in at 300-5 and coming in at 90-5. Thankfully for Pant, he has not had to be in many 90-5 type situations in his career

From Cape Town to Brisbane to Ahmedabad to Edgbaston to Oval to Sydney to Chennai, Pant's entire reputation is built on counter attacking knock when his team was in strife. Almost everytime Indian top order had collapsed and Pant took the fight right back to the opposition at a high SR.

Pant would not have the currency he enjoys if his career were full of statpad knocks ( like rizwan) coming at 300/5.
 
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Just revisited the score card.

Let’s see my take- Srilanka made 170 from 58-5- was Rizwan the captain/coach? Was he the bowler? He took a catch and usually a safe pair of gloves- did his job. Where do you find fault here?

2nd innings- Pak 147

Rizwan 55(48) which means he was steady enough to score almost at the RR. Thats how these 140-180 scores are chased. So his team mates should have scored less than 100 in 12 overs against somewhat average attack that too in the T10 era.

Assuming 8,9,10,11 are tailenders who cannot hold the bat, the remaining 6 batsmen flopped so least sensible thing to do is blame the guy who out his hand up and tried atleast.
The captain and the bowling attack should be held accountable for Sri Lanka's recovery in that match. However, it's important to recognize that Sri Lanka was able to reach 170 due to their intent to score. Why couldn't Rizwan and Iftikhar show intent like Bhanuka and Hasaranga?
 
From Cape Town to Brisbane to Ahmedabad to Edgbaston to Oval to Sydney to Chennai, Pant's entire reputation is built on counter attacking knock when his team was in strife. Almost everytime Indian top order had collapsed and Pant took the fight right back to the opposition at a high SR.

Pant would not have the currency he enjoys if his career were full of statpad knocks ( like rizwan) coming at 300/5.
I never said Pant was not a fantastic player, I just think Rizwan is better. Pant's style of batting is both his biggest strength and his biggest weakness. As many great knocks as he has played, I have seen plenty of times when he has thrown his wicket away at crucial junctures by batting brainlessly.
 
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Good example. Game was finished by middle order and the rrr did get a little out of hand there also.
Stoinis + Wade scored 81 runs in 48 balls in the match and Aus won with 6 ball left. so had these two scored 81 off 54 balls, they would have won. This implies Australia finishers needed to score 9 rpo in that match. Whereas in the Asia Cup final, Pak finishers had to get 15 rpo. The big difference in both the chases were the knocks of Warner (49 off 30) and Rizwan (55 off 49).
 
I never said Pant was not a fantastic player, I just think Rizwan is better. Pant's style of batting is both his biggest strength and his biggest weakness. As many great knocks as he has played, I have seen plenty of times when he has thrown his wicket away at crucial junctures by batting brainlessly.

Pant is celebrated as the greatest WKeeper since Gilchrist *because* of the knocks he plays coming in at 90-5 situations. And he does it again and again against top teams in bowling friendly conditions.

Of course, Pant fails more than he succeeds. EVERY batsman who's not Bradman has failed more than succeeded. And of course most of the time batsmen fail, they'd do so because of a brainfade. What's the point you are trying to make here? That Pant is uniquely special in this case? If so, present the stats.
 
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Not sure why people are dragging Dhoni in this thread. I am one of his critic for dragging his career way over his sell out date. However there is no denying that he was a champion batter from 2006-2013. Every cricket expert from every nation unanimously considers MSD as GOAT. Dhoni's innings in Peshawar test 2006 pulling and hooking a rampaging Akhtar is better than anything Rizwan played in his entire test career and only Pant's Brisbane knock is better than that. People who think Dhoni was a total dud in test batting is completely mistaken. Watch his Trent Bridge knock in 2014 in swinging conditions.
 
He surely was one of the biggest culprits and so was Fakhar. They both perished while going for glory shots even though the pitch was not suitable for such strokeplay and they witnessed the Indian batsmen perishing in similar fashion.

But the single biggest culprit was Imad Wasim whose so-called coolness under pressure and game awareness were brutally exposed and one innings was all it took for the myths to be busted.

When Rizwan got out, Pakistan needed 40 in 35 balls with 6 wickets in hand. It was a tailor-made situation for Imad Wasim - all he needed to do was nudge the ball around.

It was the exact situation that his fans claimed that he would be perfect in. If he didn’t play that game and Pakistan lost from that situation, his fans would have claimed that if Imad played, he would have won the match for Pakistan by batting according to the situation unlike others.

The next over after Bumrah’s, the Axar Patel one, turned the game upside down thanks to Imad who has a rabbit in headlights. The way he played and missed almost the entire over was embarrassing to watch. It not only killed Pakistan’s chances but pretty much killed his reputation as well.

Imad Wasim’s innings wasn’t the best but he was injured and no the biggest culprits were Rizwan and Iftikhar.

Rizwan spent most time at the crease and was only able to score 31 runs from 44 balls. He was dismissed when he was trying to go after Bumrah on a very difficult batting surface. Awful shot selection and game awareness. You could argue he was the biggest culprit in Pakistan’s failed run chase.

You could also argue the biggest culprit was Iftikhar who failed to put 3 full tosses away, which is unforgivable under any circumstances in a T20 contest. But I’m pleased that he failed because that’s what he deserves for being an age fudging fraud.
 
This thread is not about india or usa game in world cup. Stay on topic.
 
Rizwan is one of the best wicketkeeper batters in the world right now (not T20) who has the unfortunate luck of being born a Pakistani. No matter how good he is, it will never fully be reflected because of the team he plays for.

Pant is a fantastic talent who has the benefit of playing for a team that allows him to go out and play some fairly brainless cricket sometimes. Because he has top quality batters coming in before him who are tasked with playing more responsibly. And more often than not, they do just that.

There is a big difference between coming in at 300-5 and coming in at 90-5. Thankfully for Pant, he has not had to be in many 90-5 type situations in his career

Pant has actually more blazing knocks when team is in trouble than when team is sitting at 400/3.

5-98 Pant scored 146* in birmingham
5-121 Pant scored 114 in Oval
5-121 Pant scored 101 in Ahmedabad
4-58 Pant scored 100* in Cape town
4-94 Pant scored 90 plus in Mirpur
4-73 Pant scored 90 plus in Chennai
97 in Sydney and many kncoks actually came when India was in trouble.
 
India would achieve the same in white ball cricket because Dhoni’s role was not critical. He was just glorified by the media.

In Test cricket, you would see a difference especially overseas because Rizwan is a superior batsman and his additional runs would have benefited India.
I am not a custodian of Indian cricket. I did my best to not allow Pakistan cricket and it’s legacy to be tarnished with false Rizwan propaganda. I will continue in my fight to make sure false narratives are not normalised

This is up to you now Indian fans, the same Rizwan propaganda has now entered your doorstep. Nip it in the bud now, or regret losing a history/legacy of truth.

Baqi aap sab siyane ho.
 
Pant is a massively overrated keeper and is nowhere close to the likes of gilchirst so comparing the 2 is laughable.

The likes of Butler and Quinton are leagues > him, Yes Pant has test exploits but honest to God he's just good.

However Pant vs Rizzu isn't a contest, Pant is easily superior to rizwan
 
Pant is a massively overrated keeper and is nowhere close to the likes of gilchirst so comparing the 2 is laughable.

The likes of Butler and Quinton are leagues > him, Yes Pant has test exploits but honest to God he's just good.

However Pant vs Rizzu isn't a contest, Pant is easily superior to rizwan
Actually, both are pretty much in the same league as Pant. Stats are similar. In fact Butler's is not impressive at all. Especially since his test cricket career is done and dusted.

I would contend that Pant to going to surpass them in both batting and fielding stats. This after losing two years of playing time.
 
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