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The battle of the keepers, Rishabh Pant versus Mohammad Rizwan

Rizwan is in his peak form at 29 now, Pant is developing at 23. Both had to wait for long time for their induction in the team.
Factor in the age gap and current achievements before you cast your votes in the battle of wk.
 
What do you think Rizwan will produce ?

At almost 30 he has about 6-7 years to go. I think he will end up with about 60 - 65 tests in a best case scenario. Which means he has about 40-50 tests to make a mark for himself.
 
If Pant can keep improving consistently, he will end up as perhaps one of the greatest keeper batsmen of all time.

The only thing standing in his way is his mindset and his decision-making. That's it.

Rizwan will certainly become Pakistan's best wicket-keeper batsman across all formats.
 
He is good but hard to say as of now as he needs to play more in subcontinent. Brilliant keeper though. Scores runs in crisis like Watling.

Good point he does score runs in crisis but I would expect him to score around the 45 mark which is excellent for the wicket keeper.
 
At almost 30 he has about 6-7 years to go. I think he will end up with about 60 - 65 tests in a best case scenario. Which means he has about 40-50 tests to make a mark for himself.

I was more on about averages :)
 
I'm interested to see how Pant copes with the swinging ball behind the stumps during this tour, he had a nightmare 3 years ago. People say his keeping has improved during that period so it'll be intriguing to see how he keeps to the wobbling dukes ball.

No real qualms about his ability in front of the stumps, he'll be fine with the bat.

He struggled against New Zealand in New Zealand and in WTC final as well. England bowlers have seen enough of him to know that he is weak against moving ball and also gives a chance to opposition initially in his inning. They can't afford to drop his catch as well otherwise he will make them pay for it just like he did to Australia in Australia. :inti
 
He struggled against New Zealand in New Zealand and in WTC final as well. England bowlers have seen enough of him to know that he is weak against moving ball and also gives a chance to opposition initially in his inning. They can't afford to drop his catch as well otherwise he will make them pay for it just like he did to Australia in Australia. :inti

Inclined to give Pant the benefit of the doubt in those conditions. Expect him to do better against England given that the wickets are likely to be drier in August.
 
Rizwan is a top batsmen who if sustains his purple patch for the next 3-4 years will go down as one of Pakistan best wicket keeper batsmen of all time. However Pant is on another level. If he can live up to his talent and potential - which he most likely will- he can easily go down as not just one of the best keeper batsmen off all time but also a GOAT impact player in the same league with guys like Kohli, De Velliers etc
 
Tests:

M RIZWAN: 41.5
R PANT: 42.5

vs SENA
AUS
MR: 44.25
RP: 62.40

ENG
MR: 40.25
RP: 34.53

NZ
MR: 43.00
RP: 17.50

SA
MR: 83.00
RP: NA


In SENA
in AUS
MR: 44.25
RP: 62.40

in ENG
MR: 40.25
RP: 24.41

in NZ
MR: 43.00
RP: 17.50

in SA
MR: NA
RP: NA


Even though stats might suggest Rizwan is better, I still feel Pant has a much higher ceiling and match winning capabilities (as he has already shown). But he needs to control his aggression and play according to the conditions. Not every ground is Gabba or Wankhede
 
Pants is a gun batman and has become a good WK, Riz is a top WK and a solid Batman. Pants will finish with an average of over 40, and has the potential to hit 44, Riz will be more in the 34 range because that's what history show.
 
Are you OK in the head ? Don't bet on him getting found out ? He already got found out.. he looked like a clueless hack when the ball moved in England and New Zealand. His stumps took quite a few cart wheels there when his bat was miles away from the ball and his head somewhere else. Complete hack that requires flat pitches.. averages under 20 in NZ and Eng. Rizwan on the other hand averages 40+ everywhere because he has good technique, temperament and a cricketing brain.
And no he will not have a ODI career.. completely brain dead player. Brain dead players remain brain dead their entire career.

Proven right :) complete hacks, looks like a tailender.
 
In my opinion Rizwan as package of WK batsman is ahead of Pant. I shall pick Rizawan over Pant in my team
 
And yet... no team would pick Rizwan over Rishabh in their side.

Including Pakistan :asad1

Why would they? Don't they have batsmen who love to throw their wickets away already? Why would they need another one who needs luck and favour from opposition fielders to play any decent knock? :inti
 
Mohammad Rizwan is best wicketkeeper batsman in the world.

Rishabh pant is a hack who will always need the chances to score.
 
Its actually hard to call between these two and I think we need few more years of both before we can decide where both are compare to each other. For now both are best keepers available for their respective teams.
 
pant is streaky but has shown he has appetite for big hundreds, rizwan is tighter and more consistent but less explosive. pant also has time on his side, rizwan is close the the peak of his prowess.

rizwan is slightly better at the moment, but pant has a significantly higher ceiling as a batsmen if he improves his shot selection in tough conditions.
 
Its actually hard to call between these two and I think we need few more years of both before we can decide where both are compare to each other. For now both are best keepers available for their respective teams.

Absolutely. Both are so valuable to their teams and easily the best test keeper bats. and age is on their side so expect further improvement
 
Rizwan is 29 and doesn't even have 1000 test runs to his name. He has shown consistency in SENA but he just had one tour to SENA. Whether he will be able to replicate it in his next tour, we don't know.

Pant is 23 and has 1500 test runs to his name with test centuries in Australia, England and India and a test series winning performance in Australia. Among the wicket keeper batsman, there is a massive chance that Pant could go on to become the leading run scorer of all-time as keeper batsman.

Pant also has a much higher ceiling in LOIs than Rizwan.
 
Why would they? Don't they have batsmen who love to throw their wickets away already? Why would they need another one who needs luck and favour from opposition fielders to play any decent knock? :inti

Rishab Pant and Babar have similar averages in test cricket.
Pant - 42.5
Babar - 42.9
Rizwan - 41.5

So our wicketkeeper batsman is as good as Pakistan's best batsman.
 
Anyone who thinks Pant is a batsman has the same brain power as Pant himself. He's barely better than Hasan Ali let alone Rizwan.
 
Pant seems too talented for his own good. That brings arrogance and if you don't score, you will get lots of stick
 
Anyone who actually saw him batting today will. Anyone who calls Pant talented not as joke needs some serious evaluation of their cricketing IQ.

Judging a batsman by one innings where he failed. That's a pretty sound argument you make.
 
Best since Gilchrist said [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] LOL
 
Honestly, Pant is the most un-aesthetic batsman to watch currently. Ugly.

Rizwan any day.
 
Judging a batsman by one innings where he failed. That's a pretty sound argument you make.

Refer to my post a few months ago.

Are you OK in the head ? Don't bet on him getting found out ? He already got found out.. he looked like a clueless hack when the ball moved in England and New Zealand. His stumps took quite a few cart wheels there when his bat was miles away from the ball and his head somewhere else. Complete hack that requires flat pitches.. averages under 20 in NZ and Eng. Rizwan on the other hand averages 40+ everywhere because he has good technique, temperament and a cricketing brain.
And no he will not have a ODI career.. completely brain dead player. Brain dead players remain brain dead their entire career.

You can watch any Inngs you want from any of his tours to NZ/Eng. He's a tuller on the same level as Afridi and same batting IQ. Actually that is an insult to Afridi, even Afridi never looked as clueless as Pant does when it is not a road.
 
Refer to my post a few months ago.



You can watch any Inngs you want from any of his tours to NZ/Eng. He's a tuller on the same level as Afridi and same batting IQ. Actually that is an insult to Afridi, even Afridi never looked as clueless as Pant does when it is not a road.

Yet the supposedly superior batsman with a superior technique doesn't have a single century away from his home while the zero IQ batsman has tons in Australia and England and multiple match winning innings despite being 6 years younger.

Look I don't really want to diss Rizwan, I like him as a player and he's a top wk batsman, there's a reason why Pant is being backed this much at such a young age. I can bet that at the end of his career, Pant will have had a much better test career than someone being "barely" better than Hasan Ali lol regardless of what happens in this series. I mean he has already played better knocks than any wicketkeeper either your country or my country has ever produced and he's just 23. So what you're saying is comical anyway, but to say with conviction that he's going to be a worse batsman than Hasan Ali, it's the Indo-Pak rivalry getting the better of you.
 
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It looks like everyone has to score & win every match on every pitch/country/condition/circumstance to be called as a batsman or bowler! (And BTW this logic applies only to Indian Players!)
 
Cricket is at the end of day a team game and you should get your combination right for the given match/condition/pitch! That surprisingly was correct for that Australian tour (We had better captain, we lost many players due to injury but that gave right backup players to provide right balance!)

This match we lost against England, was also because we made an ugly-aggressive decision to bat first!

For Pant to grow as a good batsman he needs the company of top batsman giving him company/partnerships (like Rahul in last England tour, Pujara in Australia, etc). At most times he is left out to play with tail with huge scoreboard pressure! If this continues, he will never develop as a batsman...
 
Yet the supposedly superior batsman with a superior technique doesn't have a single century away from his home while the zero IQ batsman has tons in Australia and England and multiple match winning innings despite being 6 years younger.

Look I don't really want to diss Rizwan, I like him as a player and he's a top wk batsman, there's a reason why Pant is being backed this much at such a young age. I can bet that at the end of his career, Pant will have had a much better test career than someone being "barely" better than Hasan Ali lol regardless of what happens in this series. I mean he has already played better knocks than any wicketkeeper either your country or my country has ever produced and he's just 23. So what you're saying is comical anyway, but to say with conviction that he's going to be a worse batsman than Hasan Ali, it's the Indo-Pak rivalry getting the better of you.

The Hasan Ali comparison was obviously an exaggeration to hammer the point home how bad his technique is. The more apt comparison is Afridi, though Afridi had a better technique and brain then Pant.

And no he has not played better knocks than ' any wicketkeeper either your country or my country has ever produced'. Seriously ridiculous statement. Kamran Akmal played vastily superior inngs to him quite a few times and he was pretty medicore himself. Any time Pant does get a score above 20, is exactly how Afridi got his Test hundreds. Flat tracks, 15 edges, 25 misplayed shots that end in no mans land, 2 drops. Doesn't make them good batsman.
 
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Pant has displayed atrocious technique for English conditions but i expect that to improve. Talent wise there's no comparison pant is miles ahead of Rizwan.
 
As long as Pant is averaging 40+ as keeper batsman, he is the best test keeper batsman of this era because he has 1500 test runs to his name and is not even 25 years old.

Quinton de Kock is close to him as he has 3000 test runs at age of 28 to his name but at average of 39. Rizwan is a distant third because he is 29 year old and his runs tally is lesser than 1000 test runs and neither is he averaging very high.
 
As long as Pant is averaging 40+ as keeper batsman, he is the best test keeper batsman of this era because he has 1500 test runs to his name and is not even 25 years old.

Quinton de Kock is close to him as he has 3000 test runs at age of 28 to his name but at average of 39. Rizwan is a distant third because he is 29 year old and his runs tally is lesser than 1000 test runs and neither is he averaging very high.
Pant's average has dropped in this England tour. It was around 44 before WTC final and now it is 40.27. :inti
 
Indian fans are really clutching at straws with the age argument. Pant has already been on the international stage for 4 years, the assumption he WILL get better is a complete myth. Most batsman usually fade away after a decent career start or stay at similar levels. Like the poster above me disqualified De Kock because of his age when De Kock averaged 50+ in Test cricket for his first 3 years (age 21-23) but his average actually dropped over the years.
 
Rishab Pant and Babar have similar averages in test cricket.
Pant - 42.5
Babar - 42.9
Rizwan - 41.5

So our wicketkeeper batsman is as good as Pakistan's best batsman.
Not sure what were you thinking when you made this comparison with Babar lol.

Babar's average in tests in :

England : 65.75
Australia : 27.80
New Zealand : 47
South Africa : 36
West Indies : 36

Pant's average in tests in :

England : 22
Australia : 62
New Zealand : 15
West Indies : 19

The only place Pant is ahead of Babar is Australia. I am not counting the number of times Pant was dropped during those innings by Paine and other Australian fielders. There is no comparison between their techniques because Babar is ahead. Also I am not going to bring Babar's LOI stats here just because you ignored them deliberately. :inti
 
Indian fans are really clutching at straws with the age argument. Pant has already been on the international stage for 4 years, the assumption he WILL get better is a complete myth. Most batsman usually fade away after a decent career start or stay at similar levels. Like the poster above me disqualified De Kock because of his age when De Kock averaged 50+ in Test cricket for his first 3 years (age 21-23) but his average actually dropped over the years.

Some of these fans have already given up on 21 year old Prithvi Shaw though. :inti
 
Pant's average has dropped in this England tour. It was around 44 before WTC final and now it is 40.27. :inti

It is still higher than any other Asian wicket keeper batsman with 1000+ test runs and most of those matches were in tough overseas conditions. Furthermore, he also has a legendary match winning performance in one of India's greatest test win overseas.

The dropped catch stuff was in Sydney. Gabba was extremely high quality knock which was agreed as ATG knock by you only.

:inti
 
Some of these fans have already given up on 21 year old Prithvi Shaw though. :inti

If Shaw can keep gloves, I would have him in my team because I think he is better than his 17 average stats in SENA conditions.

However, as specialist batsman, 17 average in SENA conditions is simply not good enough for me. Pant averages twice more than that in the same conditions and also keeps wicket. If we take off the green tinted glass, it is pretty clear that hypocrisy is at the other end of spectrum.

:inti
 
If Shaw can keep gloves, I would have him in my team because I think he is better than his 17 average stats in SENA conditions.

However, as specialist batsman, 17 average in SENA conditions is simply not good enough for me. Pant averages twice more than that in the same conditions and also keeps wicket. If we take off the green tinted glass, it is pretty clear that hypocrisy is at the other end of spectrum.

:inti

It is pretty clear who is a hypocrite here. A 21 year old who has only played a grand total of 5 tests and only 3 away from home has been already discarded by fans like you who worship 24 year old Pant. Have you even checked his stats in NZ?

I am pretty sure you used to wear those green tinted glasses when you were a South African supporter. :yuvi :inti
 
The Hasan Ali comparison was obviously an exaggeration to hammer the point home how bad his technique is. The more apt comparison is Afridi, though Afridi had a better technique and brain then Pant.

And no he has not played better knocks than ' any wicketkeeper either your country or my country has ever produced'. Seriously ridiculous statement. Kamran Akmal played vastily superior inngs to him quite a few times and he was pretty medicore himself. Any time Pant does get a score above 20, is exactly how Afridi got his Test hundreds. Flat tracks, 15 edges, 25 misplayed shots that end in no mans land, 2 drops. Doesn't make them good batsman.

Stopped reading at this point.
 
It is pretty clear who is a hypocrite here. A 21 year old who has only played a grand total of 5 tests and only 3 away from home has been already discarded by fans like you who worship 24 year old Pant. Have you even checked his stats in NZ?

I am pretty sure you used to wear those green tinted glasses when you were a South African supporter. :yuvi :inti

So, when you have no answers to oppose my argument, you have to come up with these non-sensical stuffs which is completely out of topic?

And what is this South African supporter, lol?? They have been my second favourite cricket team from long time and the country is close to me, so I support them. Do you have any problems with that? :inti
 
It is still higher than any other Asian wicket keeper batsman with 1000+ test runs and most of those matches were in tough overseas conditions. Furthermore, he also has a legendary match winning performance in one of India's greatest test win overseas.

The dropped catch stuff was in Sydney. Gabba was extremely high quality knock which was agreed as ATG knock by you only.

:inti

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Pant can't resist! And Lyon can't believe it.<br><br>Live <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AUSvIND?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AUSvIND</a>: <a href="https://t.co/qvYTMSiZsl">https://t.co/qvYTMSiZsl</a> <a href="https://t.co/XQFhAO1bpX">pic.twitter.com/XQFhAO1bpX</a></p>— cricket.com.au (@cricketcomau) <a href="https://twitter.com/cricketcomau/status/1351400592711643136?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 19, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Pant has a habit of throwing his wicket away. He was on 16 in the Gabba test when he went for a glory shot to keep fans like you happy but Tim Paine missed the stumping and lost the match and series for Australia. Only those who are not wearing saffron tinted glasses can observe this habit of Pant.

khhevte7unxojutu_1611040388.jpeg


Can I expect an intelligent reply from you this time? :inti
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Pant can't resist! And Lyon can't believe it.<br><br>Live <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AUSvIND?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#AUSvIND</a>: <a href="https://t.co/qvYTMSiZsl">https://t.co/qvYTMSiZsl</a> <a href="https://t.co/XQFhAO1bpX">pic.twitter.com/XQFhAO1bpX</a></p>— cricket.com.au (@cricketcomau) <a href="https://twitter.com/cricketcomau/status/1351400592711643136?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 19, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Pant has a habit of throwing his wicket away. He was on 16 in the Gabba test when he went for a glory shot to keep fans like you happy but Tim Paine missed the stumping and lost the match and series for Australia. Only those who are not wearing saffron tinted glasses can observe this habit of Pant.

khhevte7unxojutu_1611040388.jpeg


Can I expect an intelligent reply from you this time? :inti

That was not a missed opportunity. It was a tough one from even a world class keeper standard too. These are small bits and parts of the match and it doesn't demean the greatness of the knock.

As I said earlier, you can roll the dice whatever way you want but that knock will go down as one of India's greatest test match inning of all-time, probably only second to VVS-Dravid Eden Gardens moment in last many many years of test cricket.

If we sit down and visualise the four greatest moments of Indian cricket team in last 40 years, they will be :-

Kapil Dev, 1983 World Cup
VVS-Dravid, 2001 Kolkata Test
Dhoni-Tendulkar, 2011 World Cup
Pant-Shastri, 2021 Gabba win

:inti
 
That was not a missed opportunity. It was a tough one from even a world class keeper standard too. These are small bits and parts of the match and it doesn't demean the greatness of the knock.

As I said earlier, you can roll the dice whatever way you want but that knock will go down as one of India's greatest test match inning of all-time, probably only second to VVS-Dravid Eden Gardens moment in last many many years of test cricket.

If we sit down and visualise the four greatest moments of Indian cricket team in last 40 years, they will be :-

Kapil Dev, 1983 World Cup
VVS-Dravid, 2001 Kolkata Test
Dhoni-Tendulkar, 2011 World Cup
Pant-Shastri, 2021 Gabba win

:inti

It seems it went over your head once again. I clearly mentioned he has a habit of throwing his wicket away. He tried in the Gabba test too. Watch that clip again and see the shot he played and compare it with the ongoing series or last couple of tests/LOIs. You will notice the pattern. :inti
 
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Love Rizwan.

Pant is brave and I am pretty sure he will find a way of scoring against England in England in the remaining 4 innings.
 
Probably salty because those inngs resulted in Indian Test and series losses. Kamran Akmal has factually played one of the greatest Test inngs of all time let alone be compared to Pant's given 5 chances, 20 hoicks gabba inngs. Your opinion cant change facts.
https://wisden.com/stories/podcast/kamran-akmal-great-innings-india

I think Pant is ridiculously overrated, but to compare him to Kamran Akmal is hilarious. Kamraan was the worst batsman that played lots of matches in the history of our cricket - and this is talking about Pakistan who have a very poor batting legacy anyway. Pant could average 20 runs per innings for the next 100 innings and he would still have a better career than Kami. And that’s not even talking about his awful match losing keeping and obviously dubious antics.

Oh and before his fans jump to his ‘match winnings innings’, if you give Hasan Ali hundreds of matches as a middle/top order batter I’m convinced he would produce as many if not more similar innings. And that Karachi innings which is the crown jewel was important in the context but an extremely overrated innings in terms of skill.
 
I think Pant is ridiculously overrated, but to compare him to Kamran Akmal is hilarious. Kamraan was the worst batsman that played lots of matches in the history of our cricket - and this is talking about Pakistan who have a very poor batting legacy anyway. Pant could average 20 runs per innings for the next 100 innings and he would still have a better career than Kami. And that’s not even talking about his awful match losing keeping and obviously dubious antics.

Oh and before his fans jump to his ‘match winnings innings’, if you give Hasan Ali hundreds of matches as a middle/top order batter I’m convinced he would produce as many if not more similar innings. And that Karachi innings which is the crown jewel was important in the context but an extremely overrated innings in terms of skill.
Please read my posts again, I called Kamran Akmal mediocre. But facts are facts and Akmal did play an inngs vastly superior to any by Pant and was one of the greatest test inngs of all time (The point was brought up because an Indian poster said Pant has played better knocks then any Pakistani/Indian keeper ever). He was just in a purple patch and scored 7-8 international centuries that year. It has been ranked by both Wisden and Cricinfo as one of the greatest inngs of all time not his 'fans'.

https://www.thecricketmonthly.com/story/920885/the-jury-s-out-the-greatest-counter-attacking-innings

https://wisden.com/stories/podcast/kamran-akmal-great-innings-india
 
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Please read my posts again, I called Kamran Akmal mediocre. But facts are facts and Akmal did play an inngs vastly superior to any by Pant and was one of the greatest test inngs of all time (The point was brought up because an Indian poster said Pant has played better knocks then any Pakistani/Indian keeper ever). He was just in a purple patch and scored 7-8 international centuries that year. It has been ranked by both Wisden and Cricinfo as one of the greatest inngs of all time not his 'fans'.

https://www.thecricketmonthly.com/story/920885/the-jury-s-out-the-greatest-counter-attacking-innings

https://wisden.com/stories/podcast/kamran-akmal-great-innings-india

That is a poorly written article which says nothing except essentially quoting the scorecard and providing some context. ‘He came in at 39 for 6. He put on a partnership with Razzaq. Then with Akhtar. Then India scored 245.’

To even mention him in the same breath as Gilchrist just because of that innings is unbelievable. Faisal scored a century in the second innings in that match. Had he scored it in the first would we compare him to Ponting? It would be a better comparison because at least Faisal didn’t prove over HUNDREDS of international matches that he was an atrocious player.

As for the comparison to Pant, his innings against Australia on the fifth day was a far better innings than Kamraan’s.

And I’m sorry, if facts are facts, then ‘mediocre’ is factually incorrect. He was terrible not mediocre. He averaged in the 20s despite playing hundreds of international games and not to mention the countless catches he dropped.
 
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That is a poorly written article which says nothing except essentially quoting the scorecard and providing some context. ‘He came in at 39 for 6. He put on a partnership with Razzaq. Then with Akhtar. Then India scored 245.’

To even mention him in the same breath as Gilchrist just because of that innings is unbelievable. Faisal scored a century in the second innings in that match. Had he scored it in the first would we compare him to Ponting? It would be a better comparison because at least Faisal didn’t prove over HUNDREDS of international matches that he was an atrocious player.

As for the comparison to Pant, his innings against Australia on the fifth day was a far better innings than Kamraan’s.

And I’m sorry, if facts are facts, then ‘mediocre’ is factually incorrect. He was terrible not mediocre. He averaged in the 20s despite playing hundreds of international games and not to mention the countless catches he dropped.
I am sorry if your personal opinion about Akmal doesn't let you see facts. It's not a poorly written article you just have poor reading comprehension. Let me simplify for you:

'Adam Gilchrist was a unanimous selection in the XI but Ben thought that Kamran Akmal’s 113 against India at Karachi in 2006 was worth a mention, even if Akmal didn’t actually threaten Gilchrist’s spot in the side.'
No we don't think Akmal is anywhere near the level of Gilchrist but his 113 was so amazing that we had to bring it up. Cricinfo has also called it one of the greatest inngs of all time which you conveniently ignored. Again your personal opinion is irrelevant against the facts stated by the two most reputed cricketing publications.

'As for the comparison to Pant, his innings against Australia on the fifth day was a far better innings than Kamraan’s.'
https://twitter.com/cricketcomau/st...Keepers-Rishabh-Pant-vs-Mohammad-Rizwan/page6

Amazing indeed. Now go actually watch Kamran Akmal's inngs to see what good batting, chanceless batting in swinging conditions looks like vs hoicking, edging, being let off looks like.
 
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It seems it went over your head once again. I clearly mentioned he has a habit of throwing his wicket away. He tried in the Gabba test too. Watch that clip again and see the shot he played and compare it with the ongoing series or last couple of tests/LOIs. You will notice the pattern. :inti

He played an extremely magical knock that day. It was one of the greatest humiliations of all-time for Australian captain Tim Paine and perhaps you as well :))

As I have said, as long as he is averaging 40+ as a test batsman, he is the best wicket keeper batsman in the world because aside of test hundreds in Australia and England, he also had a magnificent series in Australia 2020.

Once that average dips below 40, I would put Quinton de Kock higher than him because he has been around for quite a decent period now. Rizwan is distant third.

:inti
 
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Probably salty because those inngs resulted in Indian Test and series losses. Kamran Akmal has factually played one of the greatest Test inngs of all time let alone be compared to Pant's given 5 chances, 20 hoicks gabba inngs. Your opinion cant change facts.
https://wisden.com/stories/podcast/kamran-akmal-great-innings-india

Lol I'm not salty, that happened way back and Pak deserved the win. But I'll keep the series win in Australia which Pant helped to achieve thanks. I could care less if he edges his way to victory a hundred times and looks ungainly doing that, as long as he helps India to win series in Australia.
 
I like both of them as test wicketkeeperon/batsmen and though Rizwan has become the second most dependable batsman in Pakistan, Pant is still a youngster in a team of relatively established batsmen like Rahul Rohit Kohli and Pujara. Pant has to be more match aware and play according to the situation and he will get into the top bracket.
The Gabba series is fresh in mind of all Indians for good reasons but I don’t think it is right to keep mentioning it in defence of Pant’s poor shot selection in this series.
I don’t care much about comparison between Rizwan or Pant but more about Pant and other Indian batsmen.
 
Attacking players are often attractive to watch but this Pant guy really is so ugly.

Overall he has done ok as a test cricketer so far, but still he is no match for Rizwan at the moment.
Let's see how he does next.
 
Attacking players are often attractive to watch but this Pant guy really is so ugly.

Overall he has done ok as a test cricketer so far, but still he is no match for Rizwan at the moment.
Let's see how he does next.

If he does well, we wont see you back here though to talk about it..
 
I am sorry if your personal opinion about Akmal doesn't let you see facts. It's not a poorly written article you just have poor reading comprehension. Let me simplify for you:

'Adam Gilchrist was a unanimous selection in the XI but Ben thought that Kamran Akmal’s 113 against India at Karachi in 2006 was worth a mention, even if Akmal didn’t actually threaten Gilchrist’s spot in the side.'
No we don't think Akmal is anywhere near the level of Gilchrist but his 113 was so amazing that we had to bring it up. Cricinfo has also called it one of the greatest inngs of all time which you conveniently ignored. Again your personal opinion is irrelevant against the facts stated by the two most reputed cricketing publications.

'As for the comparison to Pant, his innings against Australia on the fifth day was a far better innings than Kamraan’s.'
https://twitter.com/cricketcomau/st...Keepers-Rishabh-Pant-vs-Mohammad-Rizwan/page6

Amazing indeed. Now go actually watch Kamran Akmal's inngs to see what good batting, chanceless batting in swinging conditions looks like vs hoicking, edging, being let off looks like.

LOL Kamran Akmal's innings against the Indian trundlers in Pakistan is being compared to Pant's innings vs the aussies at the GABBA ?

Please stop.. You are losing all credibility...


:))
 
Double-edged sword that's easy to fall upon for Rishabh; looks audacious when it comes off in a 90-5, situation.

Looks stupid when he goes at 92-6.

I think he is good but he needs to read the game a bit better rather than relying on T20ing his way out of every situation (which has no doubt worked... once or twice).
 
He played an extremely magical knock that day. It was one of the greatest humiliations of all-time for Australian captain Tim Paine and perhaps you as well :))

As I have said, as long as he is averaging 40+ as a test batsman, he is the best wicket keeper batsman in the world because aside of test hundreds in Australia and England, he also had a magnificent series in Australia 2020.

Once that average dips below 40, I would put Quinton de Kock higher than him because he has been around for quite a decent period now. Rizwan is distant third.

:inti

Humiliation for me? For what? So if he scores that is a humiliation for me and if he doesn't then that is a humiliation for you. If thats your logic here then you are quite lucky that I am not into these petty and point scoring things. I am pretty sure you would be humiliated by Pant 8 out of 10 times if thats how you think lol. You know something is wrong when you keep bringing Gabba test win into current series against England. :rabada2

Regarding his average of 40. There are still 2 games to go in this series. It can either go to 42 or 38 something. It will be interesting to see you putting Quinton over Pant when Pant's average goes below 40. :inti
 
Rizwan is so far ahead of Pant that it isn't even funny having a thread like this.

It's like arguing that the Scotland striker Che Adams (Pant) is better than Kylian Mbappe (Rizwan).

The numbers just cannot be argued with:

Mohammad Rizwan away in Australia, England and New Zealand 2020-2021
Innings: 12 , 0 not outs
Runs: 540
Average 45.00
0 centuries, 6 fifties, 6 dismissals under 50

Rishabh Pant away in Australia, England and New Zealand 2020-2021
Innings: 16 , 2 not outs
Runs: 466
Average 33.28
0 centuries, 2 fifties, 12 dismissals under 50

Pant is a player who could be top class if he had the capacity to think, but whose mindless slogging turns him into a man who fails much more often than he succeeds.
 
Rizwan is so far ahead of Pant that it isn't even funny having a thread like this.

It's like arguing that the Scotland striker Che Adams (Pant) is better than Kylian Mbappe (Rizwan).

The numbers just cannot be argued with:

Mohammad Rizwan away in Australia, England and New Zealand 2020-2021
Innings: 12 , 0 not outs
Runs: 540
Average 45.00
0 centuries, 6 fifties, 6 dismissals under 50

Rishabh Pant away in Australia, England and New Zealand 2020-2021
Innings: 16 , 2 not outs
Runs: 466
Average 33.28
0 centuries, 2 fifties, 12 dismissals under 50

Pant is a player who could be top class if he had the capacity to think, but whose mindless slogging turns him into a man who fails much more often than he succeeds.

This reminds me of Umar Akmal. :inti
 
Pant, like most other Indian batsman, simply dont have the technique to play against red dukes in England. We can debate how much ever we want but its the reality. He was not jumping around his crease in Australia bcoz Kookaburra dont do much and you can play on top of the bounce. But against moving Dukes you may nick one to slip if you try to defend from your crease and you cant play aerial shots either. So Pant has no clue how to play here and he is just trying to negate the swing by charging down the track everytime.

I repeat, no Indian batsman has the technique to bat in red dukes against bowlers of the calibre of Anderson & Robinson under these cold English conditions.

As far as comparison with Rizwan is concerned, Rizzu is better on current form. But Pant has got more potential and a higher ceiling. Whether he fulfills that potential is to be seen.
 
In <B>SENA</B> conditions, below are the stats as it makes sense to compare him with other maveric Indian batsman of equally bigger stature as him. I have included Shaw here too as some feel he is the next Tendulkar/Lara in making.

Rishabh Pant, <B>AVG 37</B>
Virender Sehwag, <B>AVG 33</B>
MS Dhoni, <B>AVG 31</B>
P Shaw, <B>AVG 17</B>

Based on these stats and also counting wicket keeping as added skill,

Pant >> Dhoni > Sehwag >> Shaw

This is after not even giving extra points to Pant for his achievement of winning his team one of the greatest test wins in the history of Indian cricket ever.
 
In <B>SENA</B> conditions, below are the stats as it makes sense to compare him with other maveric Indian batsman of equally bigger stature as him. I have included Shaw here too as some feel he is the next Tendulkar/Lara in making.

Rishabh Pant, <B>AVG 37</B>
Virender Sehwag, <B>AVG 33</B>
MS Dhoni, <B>AVG 31</B>
P Shaw, <B>AVG 17</B>

Based on these stats and also counting wicket keeping as added skill,

Pant >> Dhoni > Sehwag >> Shaw

This is after not even giving extra points to Pant for his achievement of winning his team one of the greatest test wins in the history of Indian cricket ever.

Why stop at Shaw? Pant is even better than Sachin, Dravid and Gavaskar. :))) :inti
 
In <B>SENA</B> conditions, below are the stats as it makes sense to compare him with other maveric Indian batsman of equally bigger stature as him. I have included Shaw here too as some feel he is the next Tendulkar/Lara in making.

Rishabh Pant, <B>AVG 37</B>
Virender Sehwag, <B>AVG 33</B>
MS Dhoni, <B>AVG 31</B>
P Shaw, <B>AVG 17</B>

Based on these stats and also counting wicket keeping as added skill,

Pant >> Dhoni > Sehwag >> Shaw

This is after not even giving extra points to Pant for his achievement of winning his team one of the greatest test wins in the history of Indian cricket ever.

To be fair, its getting very hard to defend Pant, the shots he has played in ENG so far has been terrible, its like he doesnt care, very poor attitude...
 
Pant, like most other Indian batsman, simply dont have the technique to play against red dukes in England. We can debate how much ever we want but its the reality. He was not jumping around his crease in Australia bcoz Kookaburra dont do much and you can play on top of the bounce. But against moving Dukes you may nick one to slip if you try to defend from your crease and you cant play aerial shots either. So Pant has no clue how to play here and he is just trying to negate the swing by charging down the track everytime.

I repeat, no Indian batsman has the technique to bat in red dukes against bowlers of the calibre of Anderson & Robinson under these cold English conditions.

As far as comparison with Rizwan is concerned, Rizzu is better on current form. But Pant has got more potential and a higher ceiling. Whether he fulfills that potential is to be seen.

Why are you guys comparing Pant with other Indian batsmen now? Didn't you guys call him Gilchrist? The same gilchrist who averages around 40 in Eng, 81 in NZ, 65 in SA, 40 in SL and 70 in WI. The only place where Gilchrist struggled was India and that team had better spin attacks. He averaged around 28 in India but Pant so far has struggled in NZ, Eng and WI. He is yet to play a match in South Africa. :inti
 
Why stop at Shaw? Pant is even better than Sachin, Dravid and Gavaskar. :))) :inti

Tendulkar 51
Dravid 49
Gavaskar 45 but Windies must be counted for his era.

So, he is clearly inferior to all three but simply a superior calibre of player compared to Sehwag and Dhoni in Tests. Sehwag had a laughable 2006 tour to South Africa where by the final test, he was replaced from opener position by a part time keeper, Dinesh Karthik. Wasim Jaffer was the premier opener in that series. :afridi

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...frica-vs-india-3rd-test-249217/full-scorecard
 
To be fair, its getting very hard to defend Pant, the shots he has played in ENG so far has been terrible, its like he doesnt care, very poor attitude...

I won't say that he doesn't care. It's just that he doesn't know when to play an attacking game and when to calm down. He is failing to understand the match situation. He did it well in Australian series but it seems he has forgotten all that hardwork. :inti
 
I won't say that he doesn't care. It's just that he doesn't know when to play an attacking game and when to calm down. He is failing to understand the match situation. He did it well in Australian series but it seems he has forgotten all that hardwork. :inti

I dont know, charging Anderson on the first ball he faced ??? I mean come on now, that clearly shows he doesnt care about the match situation or anything in general really...

How can you charge Anderson on your first ball when you are 5 down....
 
I dont know, charging Anderson on the first ball he faced ??? I mean come on now, that clearly shows he doesnt care about the match situation or anything in general really...

How can you charge Anderson on your first ball when you are 5 down....

Too much Bollywood
 
Let Pant play.

Comparing him to greats of the game like some of the names being mentioned here is unfair on him and a joke for players like Dhoni, Sehwag etc.

I don't care what the averages say. Sehwag and Dhoni v Pabt is a non-starter at the moment.
 
Let Pant play.

Comparing him to greats of the game like some of the names being mentioned here is unfair on him and a joke for players like Dhoni, Sehwag etc.

I don't care what the averages say. Sehwag and Dhoni v Pabt is a non-starter at the moment.

Yes, those are pre-mature comparisions.
The way Pant is currently batting, he may find himself on the bench instead of being on the same podium as Dhoni or Sehwag.
 
Let Pant play.

Comparing him to greats of the game like some of the names being mentioned here is unfair on him and a joke for players like Dhoni, Sehwag etc.

I don't care what the averages say. Sehwag and Dhoni v Pabt is a non-starter at the moment.

Those who are comparing him with Sehwag should look at the career graph of Sehwag. Just because Pant played 2-3 good knocks they think it will always remain like that. They do not take into consideration bad series and tours like NZ, Eng and SA. Players averages suffers the most during these tours and sometimes it becomes the reason for their downfall.

When I made a prediction about Pant retiring with a batting average of 30 I was taking into consideration everything and how most test careers end with below par performances at the end of their careers. Yuvraj's test career ended with an average of 33, whereas Raina's career ended with an average of 26. I put Pant in the same bracket as Raina and Yuvraj as far as their averages are concerned. Some people also think that he is a 50 averaging batsman. Some even call him the next gilchrist. These are different opinions of different people. :inti
 
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ATG Pant doing what he does best.

Flash in the pan. Shahid Afridi MKII
 
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