The battle of the keepers, Rishabh Pant versus Mohammad Rizwan

[Kaka4pope]

Not definite that Pant will have Rizwan’s glove skills one day, though Rizwan still relatively new to test cricket - could have blips? These things happen.

Pant has Pietersen level of game changing innings in him, though there will be lean patches where he will fall back on his keeping, which will of course get better and is already good.

Respect to Azhar Ali, man is a fighter, who showed he could adjust as per his last 140 in England. good knocks in losing tests as well, where others were not around to support. A good test opening batsman.

India’s proven elite setup over past 5 years also helps their players - in that sense Pak are only just turning a corner with likes of Yousuf/Younis now involved - see how it pans out.

 

[Hasan123]

Pant will not in a million years develop keeping skills of Rizwan.

We were told he wouldn’t improve his batting. The only way he will improve his keeping is by playing games. He has already taken some decent catches and shown much more consistency in this series. As long he doesn’t make major clangers and keeps up his batting, he will be clear of Rizwan.

 

[Geil]

Pakistan is such a low skilled test match side that it looks really ridiculous and unfair comparing them with a top test team like India.

Pant has probably played two match winning knocks if not one at Brisbane against Aus & Ahmedabad against Eng

Rizwan although played an important innings against SA at Rawalpindi but cant be regarded as a match winning knock because in that match Hasan Ali was truly the match winner

ATM Pant clearly looks a bigger player than Rizwan who I feel will not be able to produce such match winning innings as Pant did because Rizwan plays for a low ranked team and will probably make the best of players, poor and declining with time due to the negativity that PAK posses in its team set up, I mean its quite surprising & incredible to see a player like Babar Azam playing for such a team

If Pant was a Pak player he wouldnt have reached at the level he is right now, its highly unfair comparing players like Pant v Rizwan and Kohli v Babar

Rizwan and Babar wouldn't really reach the highs of the career of what Pant & Kohli have achieved or will achieve in the case of Pant v Rizwan, who are still very new in their career but I am confident that as in the present, a bulging gap is being created by pant which will grow even bigger as these two players career passes in the next coming careers

I cant even remember the recent hyped Pak batsmen who were compared with so many Indian batsmen in the past and look where there careers are right now , TBH whenever there is such comparison made, it shows that Pak fans dream is to have players of Indian team quality which doesn't look like happening with such a negative and poor PAK set up

 

[NoBallZombie]

Pakistan is such a low skilled test match side that it looks really ridiculous and unfair comparing them with a top test team like India.

Pant has probably played two match winning knocks if not one at Brisbane against Aus & Ahmedabad against Eng

Rizwan although played an important innings against SA at Rawalpindi but cant be regarded as a match winning knock because in that match Hasan Ali was truly the match winner

ATM Pant clearly looks a bigger player than Rizwan who I feel will not be able to produce such match winning innings as Pant did because Rizwan plays for a low ranked team and will probably make the best of players, poor and declining with time due to the negativity that PAK posses in its team set up, I mean its quite surprising & incredible to see a player like Babar Azam playing for such a team

If Pant was a Pak player he wouldnt have reached at the level he is right now, its highly unfair comparing players like Pant v Rizwan and Kohli v Babar

Rizwan and Babar wouldn't really reach the highs of the career of what Pant & Kohli have achieved or will achieve in the case of Pant v Rizwan, who are still very new in their career but I am confident that as in the present, a bulging gap is being created by pant which will grow even bigger as these two players career passes in the next coming careers

I cant even remember the recent hyped Pak batsmen who were compared with so many Indian batsmen in the past and look where there careers are right now , TBH whenever there is such comparison made, it shows that Pak fans dream is to have players of Indian team quality which doesn't look like happening with such a negative and poor PAK set up

Woah! Bulging gap? Are you serious? Yes there is a massive gap on the quality of Rizwan keeping and pant keeping but apart from the one match winning (freak) innings at Brisbane, Rizwan has been the more consistent batsman across ALL formats. Pant plays high risk shots and his batting is very similar to Fakhar zaman in a way. I reckon he will get found out soon and we can all laugh at this comparison in an years time.... one way or the other. But at this point what you posted is ridiculous really. Rizwan is high quality keeper bat and he continues this current form, he will finish his career as one of the best keeper batsman in the world.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Can we please end this thread ?. Rizwan is just a bits and pieces player with the bat. Pant is getting good with the gloves also. Pant should be compared with Gilly, Sangakatra etc not someone like Rizwan.. Rizwan is a fighter though, give him that, he maximises whatever minimal talent he has.

 

[Caved12]

Can we please end this thread ?. Rizwan is just a bits and pieces player with the bat. Pant is getting good with the gloves also. Pant should be compared with Gilly, Sangakatra etc not someone like Rizwan.. Rizwan is a fighter though, give him that, he maximises whatever minimal talent he has.

Bits and pieces player have been scoring 50s and 100s for fun as of late. Rizwan is miles better than Pant when it comes to wicket keeping skills, but no doubt Pant has been amazing wih the bat and is a slightly better batsman than Rizwan.

 

[rhony]

Rizwan is great for Pakistan. He's leadership material too. But India already has a few Rizwans. They need a Pant to go to the next level. And that's where they are headed.

 

[Geil]

Woah! Bulging gap? Are you serious? Yes there is a massive gap on the quality of Rizwan keeping and pant keeping but apart from the one match winning (freak) innings at Brisbane, Rizwan has been the more consistent batsman across ALL formats. Pant plays high risk shots and his batting is very similar to Fakhar zaman in a way. I reckon he will get found out soon and we can all laugh at this comparison in an years time.... one way or the other. But at this point what you posted is ridiculous really. Rizwan is high quality keeper bat and he continues this current form, he will finish his career as one of the best keeper batsman in the world.

Being in a Indian set up versus being in a Pakistan set up are two completely opposite thing, a player like Pant will most probably blossom and will be a greater and bigger impact player than Rizwan WHY? because he isn't in a PAK set up where only maybe 2 out of 10 players really fulfill their full potential .

The biggest reason why the gap will become even larger in future than now is because Pant isn't playing in a PAK set up which is so mediocre and outdated. I mean even every format of Cricket has evolved in a decade but PAK set up still follows the mediocre and outdated standards in their cricket set-up since decades.

I mean Rizwan wasn't even a regular playing batsman in PSL 2020 edition even though he was a regular international player, that is so ridiculous that a poor set-up like Pak weren't able to give their premium keeper/batsman a place in their own PSL league until last year.

so yes I am confident and serious that there will be bulging gap between these two in the future

 

[street cricketer]

I don't want my opinion to be a dampner as Pant is certainly a hot property in world cricket at the moment and no doubt ahead of Rizwan (infact ahead of most test keepers slightly behind Butler).

However, I have seen shades of Raina in Pant. He has tendency of swathes and hoicks over leg side in front of square. I somehow feel test cricket is for purists where orthodox cricket and technical cricket outweighs and outlasts. The biggest example is Dhoni, he like no one else was truly a freak and once in a lifetime player. However as he was unorhodox he wasn't a success at test cricket, same unfortunately will be the case with Pant (its a matter of time).

Rizwan would have a better test career than Pant. Pant would have a significantly better limited overs cricket career though.

The gist of your post is logical but here's the thing. Pant has already achieved better returns with the bat in test cricket than Dhoni did during his entire test career with the bat. Talking purely about batting perspective, if Pant were to retire today, he would retire easily as the best batsman out of all the wicketkeepers that India has had in its test history.

Conventional wisdom says that you cannot play high risk cricket in any format consistently, no least in test cricket, where the chances of you getting out increases with the amount of risk you take due to the nature of the game in test cricket. It's why most of the high impact players generally average in the high 30s with a high SR. If you could manage a good consistency with a high SR, it means you are a generational player which is what Adam Gilchrist was, he averaged 47 with a SR of 85 in test cricket which is just mind boggling.

Conventional wisdom should indicate that Pant cannot keep up his consistency while playing his high risk high returns game and I would totally expect Pant's consistency to taper off. But the reason why I said we're watching something unprecedented is because Pant is doing something very rare in test cricket, he is marrying a high risk-high reward game with good consistency, at least till now in his test career. Even if his average were to drop down to 40 over the course of his career due to his high risk game, he still would've had a Sanath Jayasuriya like career with the bat in test cricket, which is no mean feat.

 

[Mamoon]

Our fans will never learn.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Bits and pieces player have been scoring 50s and 100s for fun as of late.

Rizwan scored a 100 at home on those flat tracks against an okish SA bowling, Barring Rabada was there any quality fast bowler in that side ? I do not know. Pant has 100s in Aus and ENG, and is only 23. Pant takes the game away from you, he is probably the first Asian keeper to save a test match with his bat and play a match winning innings the next game to take the series in Australia. Pant strikes fear in the opposition, his opponents specifically strategies for Pant, no one really game plans specifically for Rizwan because he is not in Pant's league.

Rizwan is miles better than Pant when it comes to wicket keeping skills,

Disagree, Rizwan is better, YES, but miles better ? No

but no doubt Pant has been amazing wih the bat and is a slightly better batsman than Rizwan.

This is homerism bro, has any other famous players from other countries outside from his home country acknowledged Rizwan for his batting ? I don't think so, even if there is the odd 1 or 2, Rizwan has not captured the rest of the world's attention like Pant has. Pant has put the world on notice, that there is a superstar on the rise in International cricket.

Bold and I go back to what I have been saying; Rizwan is just an avg player with the bat, good glovesman, his career will most likely end in about 2 or 3 years from now, while strong chance Pant may be one of the best batsmen of his time by the time he hits Rizwan's age.

 

[Devadwal]

What a year Pant is having in test

 

[Ellipsism]

Rizwan is a decent batsman who is in the middle of a very good purple patch. He’s got brilliant hands but his technique is still quite loose.

Pant is at a completely different level as a batsman.

Although, I don’t think Pant will ever reach the level Rizwan is at as a keeper.

 

[Mamoon]

Rizwan at 22-23 was not a better keeper than Pant.

Improving keeping is not rocket science when you have good basics and raw ability, and Pant has that. It is all about gaining more experience now. By the time he is Rizwan’ age, he will be an excellent WK.

But this “Pant cannot keep hahaha” is the last straw clutching exercise by our fans who are still weeping because the “hack” has turned out to be a tremendous match-winner and the most feared Test cricketer in the world today.

As I have said multiple times, not a single bowling attack and captain would prefer to bowl to Pant over Rizwan, so stop kissing your “stats”.

Pant is the true heir to Gilchrist and the most talented WK batsman to emerge out of Asia since Dhoni broke onto the scene in 2004-05, and he has already surpassed him in Test cricket.

Like Gilchrist, stats alone do not do justice to how incredible Pant is. You have to watch Gilchrist and Pant play to realize how amazing they are.

Unfortunately, some people do watch Pant but they know nothing about cricket and their cricket IQ is very low.

 

[Mamoon]

Rizwan is a very good WK batsman, and probably the best in Pakistan history because as a cricket nation with the least amount of talent and skill, the bar is embarrassing low.

It is not hard to be the best when your competition are middling players like Sarfraz, Kamran, Moin, Latif etc.

On the other hand, Pant is GOAT material. A once in a century type talent.

 

[WengerOut]

The fact that the keeping of Pant is not in discussion in a series of tough, spinning pitches and that too in the presence of arguably the best pure WK in the world on the other side is itself a proof that his keeping has improved.

 

[WengerOut]

Advantage for Rizwan is that unlike Pant he is not in world cricket limelight and hence his every failure wont be scrutinized and micro analysed by "experts". Pant had to deal with that since age 20 simply because he never accepted conventional wisdom and he was a threat to cult figure but aging Dhoni.

 

[jusarrived]

Pant at this point has already played some Knocks which even batsmen we tag as ATGs didn't manage in their entire career . Match winning knocks in tests are very rare and one such innings can define your entire career and to have played a few already at such a young age is huge . To the ones who are saying his game is not suited for tests am not sure what sport you guys have been watching for last few years. The likes of Smith,Warner etc are far from orthodox .

Rizwan though am not sure why he was dropped, he had a good all round game even few years back , but he's more suited for LOIs than tests and I would definitely pick him ahead of pant in shorter formats. Him and hafeez are two batsmen who would worry me if Pakistan was facing India. Tests though pant imo will end up 2 notches above Rizwan and even at this point there is no way you can ignore those knocks and pick Rizwan ahead of him .

 

[street cricketer]

For what it's worth, I would easily term Rizwan as the 2nd best wicket keeper batsman in test cricket.

Yes, ahead of Buttler and even De Kock in present form.

 

[Mesozoic]

Rizwan is more consistent but Pant will have much more impact especially against good teams. And he also has that fear factor attached to him when he's out there with the bat in hand.

 

[MesonK]

Pant is being hyped because he’s 6 years younger than Rizwan, and has 10+ years in his career whereas Rizwan has maybe 5 years. If they were both 23, it would be a better comparison. However Pant is far ahead and by the time he is 29, he will likely already have cemented his status as an Indian great.

On pure ability right now Rizwan will make my World Test XI team instead of Pant, but that will likely change by the end of both of their careers.

Please explain to me how "pant is far ahead" ? when both men have equivalent test batting record (I posted above) and Rizwan is a better WK.

Maybe like Pant, Rizwan also has an impact far beyond his stats. As I said, I haven't followed Rizwan. I was merely saying that Pant's impact cannot be judged simply by his stats. If Pant had scored a century in the last Test rather than this one, the impact would have been much less as India was far ahead. This Test had England slightly ahead before Pant's century.

And like I said Rizwan is maintaining an average of ~45 after coming to the crease when the team is 50-60 for 5.

Both Rizwan and Pant have very very similar batting records in tests. Rizwan is just far better WK and has superior record in ODIs and T20I.

 

[MesonK]

A lot of posters here think Azhar is better or even as good as Pujara. Do you also think the same? One is averaging 42 while other is averaging 47.

First of All, Pujaras average is 46.6 while Azhar Ali is 42.8 (difference of 3.8) and thats because Pujara is a certified HTB averaging 37 away while 56+ at home. Azhar Ali never got the chance to bully on home tracks (he literally started playing in Pakistan at age of 35). Where it matters, they both average same away, while Azhar Ali dominates Pujara in almost every other aspect. AA dominates CP even in 3 out of 4 SENA countries.


AA/CP Overall away Average
37/37

AA/CP in SENA+WI
vs AUS .... 52/47 (Winner AA)
vs WI .... 41/20 (Winner AA)
vs ENG .... 33/29 (Winner AA)
vs NZ .... 35/20 (Winner AA)
vs SA .... 17/31 (Winner CP)

AA/CP years by year avg ... AA 7/12 times has better avg than Pujara
year 2010 37.71 26.25 Winner AA
year 2011 45.75 2.00 Winner AA
year 2012 55.10 81.75 Winner CP
year 2013 19.28 75.36 Winner CP
year 2014 51.33 24.15 Winner AA
year 2015 57.60 49.57 Winner AA
year 2016 63.05 55.73 Winner AA
year 2017 42.00 67.05 Winner CP
year 2018 30.41 38.04 Winner CP
year 2019 21.72 46.09 Winner CP
year 2020 41.00 20.37 Winner AA
year 2021 60.33 52.00 Winner AA

AA/CP in tougher parts of the test matches
3rd Innings 43/39 (Winner AA)
4th Innings 26/30 (Winner CP)

AA/CP avg in Wins and Losses
Wins 53/56 (Winner CP)
Losses 31/25 (Winner AA)

AA/CP 100s in SENA+WI
)5 (including a double ton), 5

.................


This Azhar Ali vs Pujara thing is turning out to be a breakpoint in Indo Pak online fans rivalry. Stats are breaking these myths of Indian individual dominance over Pakistan.

Azhar vs Pujara (Even)
Rizwan vs Pant (Even)
Misbahs-Pak vs Kohli-Ind (similiar)

 

[Thunderbolt14]

Please explain to me how "pant is far ahead" ? when both men have equivalent test batting record (I posted above) and Rizwan is a better WK.

He’s not. I actually prefer Rizwan right now. But that will likely change by 2030.

And like I said Rizwan is maintaining an average of ~45 after coming to the crease when the team is 50-60 for 5.

Both Rizwan and Pant have very very similar batting records in tests. Rizwan is just far better WK and has superior record in ODIs and T20I.

Definitely. However the Indians here are hyping Pant up based on potential which is fair. Rizwan, unless he pulls a Misbah, has maybe 5 years left. I wish Rizwan could have had a longer career - inducted 3 years ago instead of when we made Sarfaraz Test captain.

In 2017 after MisYou’s retirement, I would have inducted Rizwan and Fawad Alam both. Here’s the lineup we played against Sri Lanka, in our first Test after Misbah and Younis retired:

1. Shan Masood
2. Sami Aslam
3. Azhar Ali
4. Asad Shafiq
5. Babar Azam
6. Haris Sohail
7. Sarfaraz Ahmed (wk) (c)
8. Mohammad Amir
9. Yasir Shah
10. Hassan Ali
11. Mohammad Abbas

Here’s what we should have played:

1. Sami Aslam
2. Azhar Ali
3. Babar Azam
4. Asad Shafiq
5. Fawad Alam
6. Sarfaraz Ahmed (c)
7. Mohammad Rizwan (wk)
8. Mohammad Amir
9. Yasir Shah
10. Hassan Ali
11. Mohammad Abbas

Rizwan deserved a longer career - now he has only maybe 40-50 Tests remaining in his career whereas Rishabh Pant will play 100.

 

[Indiafan]

Please explain to me how "pant is far ahead" ? when both men have equivalent test batting record (I posted above) and Rizwan is a better WK.



And like I said Rizwan is maintaining an average of ~45 after coming to the crease when the team is 50-60 for 5.

Both Rizwan and Pant have very very similar batting records in tests. Rizwan is just far better WK and has superior record in ODIs and T20I.

People can judge based on the impact of the innings they saw live instead of just looking at average

As for better keeping, seeing the outstanding dismissals Pant has made recently, his mistakes were lack of confidence and not fault ytechnique

 

[street cricketer]

Definitely. However the Indians here are hyping Pant up based on potential which is fair.

I'm certainly not hyping Pant based on potential. Words like "talent", "potential", etc., are buzzwords used by the casual cricket fans.

I'm hyping up Pant based on what he has achieved in his short test career. He has played more match winning innings than any other wicket keeper we have had in our test history and this with only few matches into his test career. There's a reason the entire cricketing world is talking about Pant, it's because he's doing something special, not seen before since the days of Gilchrist.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

I'm certainly not hyping Pant based on potential. Words like "talent", "potential", etc., are buzzwords used by the casual cricket fans.

I'm hyping up Pant based on what he has achieved in his short test career. He has played more match winning innings than any other wicket keeper we have had in our test history and this with only few matches into his test career. There's a reason the entire cricketing world is talking about Pant, it's because he's doing something special, not seen before since the days of Gilchrist.

If you are not using the word talent and if you are not referring to the future, then I find it hard to rationalize putting Pant in any Test team right now over Rizwan (due to keeping).

Pant is likely to be a future ATG, but at this moment in time Rizwan is the better all rounder. Catches are far more important than runs, and the runs are actually quite similar right now. It might be distant past for you but just three months ago Pant was dropping catches left right and center.

If Pant continues keeping well like he has done against England over the course of this next year, he will undoubtedly surpass Rizwan as an all round package. However, Rizwan is the best all-round keeper in the world right now. In Tests alone as well as in all 3 formats combined.

 

[The lone Ranger]

Since his debut in 2018, no batsman has more 90+ scores in Test cricket than Rishabh Pant (7)

Just imagine these people would have turned the world upside down If a 23 year old Pak batsman had been winning matches out of nowhere with his dazzling performances.

His performance at the fortress Gabba will never ever be forgotten and will keep on singing his name for ages to come.

 

[street cricketer]

If you are not using the word talent and if you are not referring to the future, then I find it hard to rationalize putting Pant in any Test team right now over Rizwan (due to keeping).

Pant is likely to be a future ATG, but at this moment in time Rizwan is the better all rounder. Catches are far more important than runs, and the runs are actually quite similar right now. It might be distant past for you but just three months ago Pant was dropping catches left right and center.

If Pant continues keeping well like he has done against England over the course of this next year, he will undoubtedly surpass Rizwan as an all round package. However, Rizwan is the best all-round keeper in the world right now. In Tests alone as well as in all 3 formats combined.

There is no doubt that Rizwan is the better keeper than Pant. But there are two types of people - people who prioritise the keeping part more in a wk batsman, and those who prioritise the batting ability in a wk batsman.

My stance is simple. I would prefer the better batsman out of two wicket keepers unless he's so bad he drops every other catch behind the stumps and likely to lose you the match. I've always rated Pant as a very good keeper against the pacers, it's just against the spinners I thought his technique was bad before the start of this series and needed improvement. And this series, he has been excellent behind the stumps and in fact, I don't remember him dropping a dolly all series. So he's clearly improving his keeping ability every day. And when you factor in Pant's ability to turn matches on their had in the span of a session, and his match winning ability, I would gladly take Pant, absolutely no disrespect to Rizwan, who would be the 2nd wk batsman I would pick in my team.

 

[Mesozoic]

First of All, Pujaras average is 46.6 while Azhar Ali is 42.8 (difference of 3.8) and thats because Pujara is a certified HTB averaging 37 away while 56+ at home. Azhar Ali never got the chance to bully on home tracks (he literally started playing in Pakistan at age of 35). Where it matters, they both average same away, while Azhar Ali dominates Pujara in almost every other aspect. AA dominates CP even in 3 out of 4 SENA countries.

Yeah I wholeheartedly agree with that. By playing for a decade on lively UAE surfaces that usually have seam, swing, pace,bounce and 10 mm wide cracks for the faster bowlers... grip, rough and 90° turn right from day 1 for the spinners , Azhar Ali sure missed out a lot on some home track bullying.

Well it's a totally different thing that he averages 10 runs lesser in Pakistan, his actual home, but yeah..... you most certainly have a point .

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

I wouldn't trade Pant for Babar let alone Rizwan.
Pant is an extraordinary match winner, Rizwan is good too but just have a look at what Adam Gilchrist is tweeting, did he say the same about any other wicketkeeper batsman?
No, because he knows that it's not about stats, Pant's presence on the field is something different. He can take away the game in a matter of minutes.
He is exactly the type of cricketer our team needs, an out and out clutch trailblazer.
As for wicketkeeping, his performance throughout this series was great on turning pitches.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Pant as a batsman and Rizwan as a keeper currently.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

As for lois.......... Do people really think that Pant won't succeed in odis and t20is?
He is going to be one of the best t20 players.. Look at his ipl stats, it's just about confidence, now that he has a fixed spot in the team he will score runs, no doubt about that.

 

[RainStopsPlay]

Pant is a world-beater and match Winner at 23 already.
Rizwan is just another good batsman in the mould of Babar Azam.

End of thread.

 

[RainStopsPlay]

As for lois.......... Do people really think that Pant won't succeed in odis and t20is?
He is going to be one of the best t20 players.. Look at his ipl stats, it's just about confidence, now that he has a fixed spot in the team he will score runs, no doubt about that.

I'd still go with Rahul in T20s. That gives India luxury to pick another all-rounder. Pant has no place in T20s for now.

 

[Extra_Cover]

The gist of your post is logical but here's the thing. Pant has already achieved better returns with the bat in test cricket than Dhoni did during his entire test career with the bat. Talking purely about batting perspective, if Pant were to retire today, he would retire easily as the best batsman out of all the wicketkeepers that India has had in its test history.

Conventional wisdom says that you cannot play high risk cricket in any format consistently, no least in test cricket, where the chances of you getting out increases with the amount of risk you take due to the nature of the game in test cricket. It's why most of the high impact players generally average in the high 30s with a high SR. If you could manage a good consistency with a high SR, it means you are a generational player which is what Adam Gilchrist was, he averaged 47 with a SR of 85 in test cricket which is just mind boggling.

Conventional wisdom should indicate that Pant cannot keep up his consistency while playing his high risk high returns game and I would totally expect Pant's consistency to taper off. But the reason why I said we're watching something unprecedented is because Pant is doing something very rare in test cricket, he is marrying a high risk-high reward game with good consistency, at least till now in his test career. Even if his average were to drop down to 40 over the course of his career due to his high risk game, he still would've had a Sanath Jayasuriya like career with the bat in test cricket, which is no mean feat.

This is one logical post I have seen in this thread and some good points you have raised in here.

In my opinion, Pant is still relatively new in test arena and has had a phenomenal winter/summer season. My point is creating a hyperbole suggesting Pant is the new Gilchrist or best wk/batsman in test ever because the fact is that statement would come through after Pant retires and not now.

For now as I mentioned previously test cricket is conventional cricket where orthodox style and technical ability defines success. For all good or wrong reasons Pant is neither orthodox and nor techincally amp. The example of Dhoni is in front of our eyes, for me Dhoni was the best thing that happened to India not only he was a beast of a batsman in limited overs he was a phenomenal leader and changed the mindset of Indian cricketers that is bearing fruits till this day. Yet Dhoni being the mega success he was struggled in test arena. The struggle of Dhoni in test is specifically down to his technical ability with red ball.

If we go by history then Pant would not be a success in test cricket but what do we know as Pant is currently writing his own version of history. Time will tell where Pant ends up.

PS - Pant will be a beast in limited overs especially T20s.

 

[Indiafan]

I'd still go with Rahul in T20s. That gives India luxury to pick another all-rounder. Pant has no place in T20s for now.

Its stupid short term thinking, if one of the biggest match winners doesn't get spot in the team

 

[Indiafan]

This is one logical post I have seen in this thread and some good points you have raised in here.

In my opinion, Pant is still relatively new in test arena and has had a phenomenal winter/summer season. My point is creating a hyperbole suggesting Pant is the new Gilchrist or best wk/batsman in test ever because the fact is that statement would come through after Pant retires and not now.

For now as I mentioned previously test cricket is conventional cricket where orthodox style and technical ability defines success. For all good or wrong reasons Pant is neither orthodox and nor techincally amp. The example of Dhoni is in front of our eyes, for me Dhoni was the best thing that happened to India not only he was a beast of a batsman in limited overs he was a phenomenal leader and changed the mindset of Indian cricketers that is bearing fruits till this day. Yet Dhoni being the mega success he was struggled in test arena. The struggle of Dhoni in test is specifically down to his technical ability with red ball.

If we go by history then Pant would not be a success in test cricket but what do we know as Pant is currently writing his own version of history. Time will tell where Pant ends up.

PS - Pant will be a beast in limited overs especially T20s.

Once again, watch the whole ,match and not just highlights. Pant batted the test match till half the match. In all his big innings he has played proper test match crickter till at least half way. Here is Vaughn saying same thing

That's true, but Rishabh Pant's first 50 yesterday was patient and was the Test-match way. You can have all the tricks and flicks, but you've still good to be able to play in the proper way when called on. And Pant's century yesterday was a perfect example of that.

Pant has a really really tight defense, both against pace and spin. Its clear you just see highlights of some of his shots and make conclusions about his innings

 

[RajBan]

Question for those who think Rizwan is a better batsman than Pant - Whom will you play in Pakistan Test 11 - Rizwan or Pant?

 

[Ab Fan]

Indo-Pak current XI:-

1.Rohit Sharma
2.Shubhman Gill
3.Cheteshwar Pujara ( averages 47 on turners compared to Azhar who averages 42 playing home matches on flat Desert)
4.Virat Kohli
5.Rishabh Pant
6.Mohammad Rizwan (wkt)
7. Sir Ravindra Jadeja
8 Ravichandran Ashwin
9. Ishant Sharma
10. Mohammad Shami
11. Jasprit Bumrah

If I need to strengthen my batting, I will pick Babar instead of Rizwan and give gloves to Pant. I would also consider Shaheen instead of Shami in SEN matches.

 

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

Pant is 5 years younger than Rizwan. By the time he's 28 like Rizwan is now, he should be a dependable enough wicketkeeper if BCCI have him work hard on it. He was already pretty decent with the gloves in this series.

 

[OldWarHorse]

People here are underrating Pant's keeping abilities. Against pacers he is already very very good. Its spinners, especially Ashwin, he has had a tough time against and anyway keeping upto him is not the easiest task either.

He is already showing signs of improvement, I can see him progressing massively in the next couple of seasons in this regard.

 

[MesonK]

People can judge based on the impact of the innings they saw live instead of just looking at average

As for better keeping, seeing the outstanding dismissals Pant has made recently, his mistakes were lack of confidence and not fault ytechnique

I think you have never ever seen Rizwan bat or keep the wickets.

Yeah I wholeheartedly agree with that. By playing for a decade on lively UAE surfaces that usually have seam, swing, pace,bounce and 10 mm wide cracks for the faster bowlers... grip, rough and 90° turn right from day 1 for the spinners , Azhar Ali sure missed out a lot on some home track bullying.

Well it's a totally different thing that he averages 10 runs lesser in Pakistan, his actual home, but yeah..... you most certainly have a point .

Your whole post is a false. This idea of UAE was some batting paradise where fast bowlers ruined their careers is as funny as the clownish claim (proven false) by few here that Pujara has better stats than Azhar Ali. Here is something for you. 7 out of top 12 bowlers by average (min 20 wickets) in UAE are pacemen. As a matter of fact top 3 by average are pacemen.

Mohammad Abbas (PAK) 17.55
JM Anderson (ENG) 20.54
SCJ Broad (ENG) 22.85
Yasir Shah (PAK) 24.56
Saeed Ajmal (PAK) 26.46
HMRKB Herath (SL) 28.65
Umar Gul (PAK) 31.89
Abdur Rehman (PAK) 30.47
Junaid Khan (PAK) 32.26
Wahab Riaz (PAK) 33.52
Rahat Ali (PAK) 39.04

So yes UAE was not any slow, flat track or batting paradise .... Besides UAE is not Pakistan where Azhar Ali had support of home crowds, curators, home familiarity advantages.

I am amazed at nationalistic bias of Indian fans here. Even with posted detailed stats, they just cant digest the fact that anything Pakistani can be better or on par with Indian counterpart. Azhar Ali has better record than Pujara by yearly average, away averages in SENA+WI (except for SA), has a double ton in SENA, averages higher in tougher parts of the game but somehow Pujara became better because he averages 3.8 runs higher at home by being the HTB.

I wouldn't trade Pant for Babar let alone Rizwan.

You would not trade Imran Khan for Mohit Sharma either.

3.Cheteshwar Pujara ( averages 47 on turners compared to Azhar who averages 42 playing home matches on flat Desert)

False statement. Pujara doesn't score on rank turners. His highest HTB scores at home are in high scoring games where teams scored heavily. Trust me you do not want me to post a comparison between these two men and their best scores. Hint: Azhar Ali literally opens Pakistani innings.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

There is no doubt that Rizwan is the better keeper than Pant. But there are two types of people - people who prioritise the keeping part more in a wk batsman, and those who prioritise the batting ability in a wk batsman.

My stance is simple. I would prefer the better batsman out of two wicket keepers unless he's so bad he drops every other catch behind the stumps and likely to lose you the match. I've always rated Pant as a very good keeper against the pacers, it's just against the spinners I thought his technique was bad before the start of this series and needed improvement. And this series, he has been excellent behind the stumps and in fact, I don't remember him dropping a dolly all series. So he's clearly improving his keeping ability every day. And when you factor in Pant's ability to turn matches on their had in the span of a session, and his match winning ability, I would gladly take Pant, absolutely no disrespect to Rizwan, who would be the 2nd wk batsman I would pick in my team.

Fair enough. I’m the other kind of person as I believe 10-20 runs average difference between two keepers means nothing if that is the cost of one top order wicket (a dropped catch or even a difficult half-chance can equate to as little as 30 runs and as much as 100 runs difference for the team).

At that point, you have to score a century just to break even for a missed half-chance.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

Indo-Pak current XI:-

1.Rohit Sharma
2.Shubhman Gill
3.Cheteshwar Pujara ( averages 47 on turners compared to Azhar who averages 42 playing home matches on flat Desert)
4.Virat Kohli
5.Rishabh Pant
6.Mohammad Rizwan (wkt)
7. Sir Ravindra Jadeja
8 Ravichandran Ashwin
9. Ishant Sharma
10. Mohammad Shami
11. Jasprit Bumrah

If I need to strengthen my batting, I will pick Babar instead of Rizwan and give gloves to Pant. I would also consider Shaheen instead of Shami in SEN matches.

1. Azhar Ali
2. Cheteshwar Pujara
3. Babar Azam
4. Virat Kohli (c)
5. Rishabh Pant
6. Mohammad Rizwan (wk)

This would be my top 6.

 

[Saurav]

The thing I like about Pant is he has gotten a lot of hate from age 21-23 .. and still come on top that’s character.. thankfully Indian Cricket management is much better than us fans(myself ).

Indian team management,Shastri,Kohli and MSK Prasad publicly targetted him

Pant has not given them any option in Test cricket.Also got lucky Rahane was captain in Aus

 

[Indiafan]

Fair enough. I’m the other kind of person as I believe 10-20 runs average difference between two keepers means nothing if that is the cost of one top order wicket (a dropped catch or even a difficult half-chance can equate to as little as 30 runs and as much as 100 runs difference for the team).

At that point, you have to score a century just to break even for a missed half-chance.

So we are ignoring his improved keeping and some amazing amazing dismissals in last few matches?

He is no.Kamran akmal who will keep dropping. He has been safe in domestics for years and safe in IPL.His recent missed chances were clearly because of pressure and not lack of technique

 

[Indiafan]

Indian team management,Shastri,Kohli and MSK Prasad publicly targetted him

Pant has not given them any option in Test cricket.Also got lucky Rahane was captain in Aus

If not for that 36 all out, Pants career might have been over

 

[Indiafan]

Pant is now ranked no 7 in ICC batsmen list

 

[avihash]

This thread just reminds me of Shehzad vs Rohit, Kohli vs Umar Akmal threads. It will end up in the same bin as those threads with the careers of then comparable (and even better as per some pak fans) players.

Nowadays, Umar Akmal is known for " mother from another brother" and shehzad for being KPs whipping boy, whereas kohli and rohit are nearing atg status.

Wouldn't want the same fate for rizwan but he is a good mediocre player, pant is atg material.

Funny how some fans here are trying to hide behind rizwan, now that pant has proved them as jokers when it comes to cricket predictions.

Pant ha already played the kind of innings which babar azam will never play, let along comparisons with rizwan.

 

[JaDed]

This thread just reminds me of Shehzad vs Rohit, Kohli vs Umar Akmal threads. It will end up in the same bin as those threads with the careers of then comparable (and even better as per some pak fans) players.

Nowadays, Umar Akmal is known for " mother from another brother" and shehzad for being KPs whipping boy, whereas kohli and rohit are nearing atg status.

Wouldn't want the same fate for rizwan but he is a good mediocre player, pant is atg material.

Funny how some fans here are trying to hide behind rizwan, now that pant has proved them as jokers when it comes to cricket predictions.

Pant ha already played the kind of innings which babar azam will never play, let along comparisons with rizwan.

Relax ... Rizwan and Babar are actually good players and finally for next 4 years we can expect consistency from PCT due to the team being built around them.

Also UA, Shehzad both have mental issues as well which Rizwan doesn’t.

 

[JaDed]

Indian team management,Shastri,Kohli and MSK Prasad publicly targetted him

Pant has not given them any option in Test cricket.Also got lucky Rahane was captain in Aus

Thanks to the selectors then..

 

[avihash]

Relax ... Rizwan and Babar are actually good players and finally for next 4 years we can expect consistency from PCT due to the team being built around them.

Also UA, Shehzad both have mental issues as well which Rizwan doesn’t.

In hindsight he would be found lacking in something else which you will disclose on a similar thread 5 years down the line.

 

[rhony]

Pant's incentives and stakes are way too high for him to be a sloppy keeper. He knows that in a 10 year career from now, he can make 30 to 50 million dollars easy. All he needs to do is squat a few more times and be alert. He will be picked in IPL nevertheless but those big commercial contracts are where the big money is. They don't dole those out to players that aren't in the national team. He is also aware that in 3 years, he can be the mainstay of Indian cricket. With Kohli, Rohit gone, big bucks are all for his taking.

Rizwan's incentive is to stave off Sarfi. That's all

 

[Thunderbolt14]

Pant's incentives and stakes are way too high for him to be a sloppy keeper. He knows that in a 10 year career from now, he can make 30 to 50 million dollars easy. All he needs to do is squat a few more times and be alert. He will be picked in IPL nevertheless but those big commercial contracts are where the big money is. They don't dole those out to players that aren't in the national team. He is also aware that in 3 years, he can be the mainstay of Indian cricket. With Kohli, Rohit gone, big bucks are all for his taking.

Rizwan's incentive is to stave off Sarfi. That's all

Rizwan might never be paid one tenth of what Pant will be, but if he works hard he has the following things he can be proud of by the end of his career:
— being the best Pakistani wicketkeeper ever
— being the best keeper (purely with the gloves) in world cricket
— being the best keeper-batsman in world cricket (competing to be better than Pant)
— becoming the Pakistan captain should Babar leave the stint
— becoming the most reliable Pakistani opener since Saeed Anwar
— being the mainstay of the Pakistan side along with Babar
— entering the top 10 test batsmen list (currently ranked 17 just behind Pujara, Stokes, Rahane, Markram)
— helping Pakistan win the following: WT20 2021, WTC 2023, WC 2023

Trust me, if Rizwan maintains his form there is a lot of glory waiting for him. And money too, even if the money is not as much as any IPL cricketer, as that is the sad reality of international cricket these days. He has the potential to earn as much star power as Babar.

 

[NoBallZombie]

This thread just reminds me of Shehzad vs Rohit, Kohli vs Umar Akmal threads. It will end up in the same bin as those threads with the careers of then comparable (and even better as per some pak fans) players.

Nowadays, Umar Akmal is known for " mother from another brother" and shehzad for being KPs whipping boy, whereas kohli and rohit are nearing atg status.

Wouldn't want the same fate for rizwan but he is a good mediocre player, pant is atg material.

Funny how some fans here are trying to hide behind rizwan, now that pant has proved them as jokers when it comes to cricket predictions.

Pant ha already played the kind of innings which babar azam will never play, let along comparisons with rizwan.

Lots of rubbish in this comment.

How about the Babar vs kl Rahul thread? Let both the blokes play for a couple of years to come up with a conclusion. Rizwan has been extremely consistent with the bat and his keeping is at another level to pant.

 

[NoBallZombie]

Rizwan might never be paid one tenth of what Pant will be, but if he works hard he has the following things he can be proud of by the end of his career:
— being the best Pakistani wicketkeeper ever
— being the best keeper (purely with the gloves) in world cricket
— being the best keeper-batsman in world cricket (competing to be better than Pant)
— becoming the Pakistan captain should Babar leave the stint
— becoming the most reliable Pakistani opener since Saeed Anwar
— being the mainstay of the Pakistan side along with Babar
— entering the top 10 test batsmen list (currently ranked 17 just behind Pujara, Stokes, Rahane, Markram)
— helping Pakistan win the following: WT20 2021, WTC 2023, WC 2023

Trust me, if Rizwan maintains his form there is a lot of glory waiting for him. And money too, even if the money is not as much as any IPL cricketer, as that is the sad reality of international cricket these days. He has the potential to earn as much star power as Babar.

Agree with this. All Rizwan needs to do is replicate his performances for another couple of years and he would break quite a few records.

 

[rhony]

Rizwan might never be paid one tenth of what Pant will be, but if he works hard he has the following things he can be proud of by the end of his career:
— being the best Pakistani wicketkeeper ever
— being the best keeper (purely with the gloves) in world cricket
— being the best keeper-batsman in world cricket (competing to be better than Pant)
— becoming the Pakistan captain should Babar leave the stint
— becoming the most reliable Pakistani opener since Saeed Anwar
— being the mainstay of the Pakistan side along with Babar
— entering the top 10 test batsmen list (currently ranked 17 just behind Pujara, Stokes, Rahane, Markram)
— helping Pakistan win the following: WT20 2021, WTC 2023, WC 2023

Trust me, if Rizwan maintains his form there is a lot of glory waiting for him. And money too, even if the money is not as much as any IPL cricketer, as that is the sad reality of international cricket these days. He has the potential to earn as much star power as Babar.

Yes that's the same for every player that's playing cricket for their respective countries. The additional 50 mil is where things get real motivating.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

Yes that's the same for every player that's playing cricket for their respective countries. The additional 50 mil is where things get real motivating.

You misunderstood my post. Of course it’s the same for every player. That doesn’t mean it’s not motivating.

Rizwan couldn’t give a about that additional 50 mil.

 

[The lone Ranger]

You misunderstood my post. Of course it’s the same for every player. That doesn’t mean it’s not motivating.

Rizwan couldn’t give a about that additional 50 mil.

Ofcourse he doesn't care about money just like asif and others.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Rizwan couldn’t give a about that additional 50 mil.

Yeah ofcourse Rizwan currently plays for free and plays for the pure joy of representing his country... Same went for Wasim also

 

[Mamoon]

This comparison once again illustrates the fact that Pakistani fans know nothing about cricket.

As I have said multiple times before, whilst Rizwan is a very good WK batsman in all formats, not a single team in the world would prefer to have him over Pant.

Moreover, there is no bowling attack and captain in the world who would prefer to bowl to Pant over Rizwan.

Pant is one of the most feared cricketers in the world whose presence at the crease has a psychological impact on the opposition.

The captain and the bowlers are never comfortable when he is at the crease regardless of the match situation because you cannot keep him quiet while targeting other batsmen. If you don’t get him out he he will hurt you.

Australia delayed the declaration at the Gabba because they were afraid of Pant butchering them which he did anyway.

They will never do that for someone like Rizwan, because although he is a good batsman, he does not possess the fear factor and the game-changing ability that Pant does.

If you are 150/5 and chasing 350+, you would not expect someone like Rizwan to play an explosive innings and turn the tables but you will always have that fear (or hope, depending on what side you are on) when Pant is at the crease.

He has the same aura and crease presence that Gilchrist did and is undoubtedly the most talented WK batsman since.

It is the same reason why England continues to pick Buttler over Foakes simply because there isn’t a team in the world that would rather have Buttler in the opposition over Foakes.

England knows that Buttler will always be viewed as a bigger threat than Foakes irrespective of how much propaganda certain people do over his superior keeping skills.

As far as the Pant vs Rizwan keeping debate is concerned, it is a last desperate straw-clutching exercise by people whose ignorance made them criticize Pant’s batting and labeled him a hack.

Now that Pant has proven them wrong with the bat, they are crying about his keeping as a coping mechanism.

Give him a few years and he will be the best keeper in the world as well. His keeping is already improving and he was excellent in the last two Tests on a very challenging surface.

Pant is actually a better keeper than what Rizwan was at his age. Rizwan’s keeping improved dramatically from 2017 onwards. There is no reason why Pant will not improve his keeping skills further.

The “Pant cannot keep” drama will also end in tears just like the “Pant is a useless hack” drama ended.

Pant is the heir to Gilchrist and it is not Rizwan’s fault that his career is overlapping with a once in a century talent. He is a very good WK batsman in his own right and he is well on his way of establishing himself as the best Pakistani WK batsman ever.

The bar is really low because Pakistani legacy of WK batsmen, like most departments of the game, is very mediocre.

When all you have done is produce middling WK batsmen like Moin, Latif, Kamran, Sarfraz etc. while claiming that “Pakistan me talent bohat hai”, it is not hard for a very good WK batsman like Rizwan to stand out.

Nevertheless, it still means something, and he should be proud of where he is and where he is going even if he never will be comparable to Pant, who is on his way to becoming the GOAT WK batsman.

 

[Third_Umpire]

This comparison once again illustrates the fact that Pakistani fans know nothing about cricket.

As I have said multiple times before, whilst Rizwan is a very good WK batsman in all formats, not a single team in the world would prefer to have him over Pant.

Moreover, there is no bowling attack and captain in the world who would prefer to bowl to Pant over Rizwan.

Pant is one of the most feared cricketers in the world whose presence at the crease has a psychological impact on the opposition.

The captain and the bowlers are never comfortable when he is at the crease regardless of the match situation because you cannot keep him quiet while targeting other batsmen. If you don’t get him out he he will hurt you.

Australia delayed the declaration at the Gabba because they were afraid of Pant butchering them which he did anyway.

They will never do that for someone like Rizwan, because although he is a good batsman, he does not possess the fear factor and the game-changing ability that Pant does.

If you are 150/5 and chasing 350+, you would not expect someone like Rizwan to play an explosive innings and turn the tables but you will always have that fear (or hope, depending on what side you are on) when Pant is at the crease.

He has the same aura and crease presence that Gilchrist did and is undoubtedly the most talented WK batsman since.

It is the same reason why England continues to pick Buttler over Foakes simply because there isn’t a team in the world that would rather have Buttler in the opposition over Foakes.

England knows that Buttler will always be viewed as a bigger threat than Foakes irrespective of how much propaganda certain people do over his superior keeping skills.

As far as the Pant vs Rizwan keeping debate is concerned, it is a last desperate straw-clutching exercise by people whose ignorance made them criticize Pant’s batting and labeled him a hack.

Now that Pant has proven them wrong with the bat, they are crying about his keeping as a coping mechanism.

Give him a few years and he will be the best keeper in the world as well. His keeping is already improving and he was excellent in the last two Tests on a very challenging surface.

Pant is actually a better keeper than what Rizwan was at his age. Rizwan’s keeping improved dramatically from 2017 onwards. There is no reason why Pant will not improve his keeping skills further.

The “Pant cannot keep” drama will also end in tears just like the “Pant is a useless hack” drama ended.

Pant is the heir to Gilchrist and it is not Rizwan’s fault that his career is overlapping with a once in a century talent. He is a very good WK batsman in his own right and he is well on his way of establishing himself as the best Pakistani WK batsman ever.

The bar is really low because Pakistani legacy of WK batsmen, like most departments of the game, is very mediocre.

When all you have done is produce middling WK batsmen like Moin, Latif, Kamran, Sarfraz etc. while claiming that “Pakistan me talent bohat hai”, it is not hard for a very good WK batsman like Rizwan to stand out.

Nevertheless, it still means something, and he should be proud of where he is and where he is going even if he never will be comparable to Pant, who is on his way to becoming the GOAT WK batsman.

Pant vs. our best player Babar, who would you pick?

 

[Thunderbolt14]

Ofcourse he doesn't care about money just like asif and others.

Yeah ofcourse Rizwan currently plays for free and plays for the pure joy of representing his country... Same went for Wasim also

It’s honestly degrading and disrespectful to compare someone like Rizwan with Asif or Salman Butt. Rizwan is such a genuine character with honest patriotism and a desire to serve his country, and has never made any controversy in the press or sought out fame.

This guy sat quietly on the bench for Karachi Kings and never complained about Sarfaraz keeping him out of the Pakistan team.

Now he’s got his opportunity to play for his country and he is playing with his heart on his sleeve. Kindly take your comments comparing him to Asif back and apologize.

Making such claims about anybody, without a shred of evidence or indication, that is a very low bar, whether you do it from behind the anonymity of an internet handle or in person.

To be frank, I think it’s degrading for people on this thread to speak about Pant’s motivation in terms of “50 million”. Pant is a fierce, honest young lad who has more incentive to serve his country than make some cheap bucks playing IPL. There are more meaningful things in life and Pant is not some money hungry sellout.

“Pant's incentives and stakes are way too high for him to be a sloppy keeper. He knows that in a 10 year career from now, he can make 30 to 50 million dollars easy.”

His incentives and stakes are indeed very high. God bless him for his genuine passion to serve his watan and become a great cricketer. Ridiculous that people put a price tag on this.

 

[Ab Fan]

Rizwan is a 37-38 averaging test batsman while Rishabh Pant is a 45+ averaging potential bat who will have several match winning and game changing knocks against top quality sides like England and Australia to his name.

Rizwan is better keeper though and if he maintains the performance for 3 years, he will be Pakistan's greatest ever keeper bat. But anyone can see that in contrast, Pant will have 10+ years of long career.

 

[Caved12]

They both are amazing and will have great careers. Can't put one down or another as they both will continue to work hard and will continue to prove the doubters and haters wrong.

 

[MesonK]

Lol at Indians and their fans here trying to sell Pant over Rizwan when

Rizwan over Pant has

- superior ODI and T20 record
- Equivalent Test record (more consistent though)
- much better WK skills

... like I said this stats here will break myths like in previous threads

Azhar Ali vs Pujara
Misbah-Pak vs Kohli-Ind

Our fans are victims of radical propaganda by toxic haters here with zero knowledge of game. Yes we are no world beaters but with the amount of resources and problems we have, our team does well and most of the times almost on par with Indians who have spent billions on the game.

 

[MesonK]

Rizwan is a 37-38 averaging test batsman while Rishabh Pant is a 45+ averaging potential bat

LOL at your lies

Rizwan has equivalent and in some aspects slightly better Test record than Pant.

Muhammad Rizwan (MR)/Rishab Pant (RP)

Overall Average
44.3/45.2

Average Away
42.5/39.3

Numbers matter, your opinion does not.

 

[Ab Fan]

LOL at your lies

Rizwan has equivalent and in some aspects slightly better Test record than Pant.

Muhammad Rizwan (MR)/Rishab Pant (RP)

Overall Average
44.3/45.2

Average Away
42.5/39.3

Numbers matter, your opinion does not.

Yeah that's why Rizwan who is 5 years older than Pant has lesser test runs and hundreds than Rishabh Pant. There goes your numbers logic.

Rest you will obviously manipulate stats and facts just like you discounted Pujara's runs on turning wickets at home and Sri Lanka and compared him with Azhar who failed to even dominate on flat UAE wickets by losing test matches to Kiwis and Sri Lanka.

 

[RajBan]

LOL at your lies

Rizwan has equivalent and in some aspects slightly better Test record than Pant.

Muhammad Rizwan (MR)/Rishab Pant (RP)

Overall Average
44.3/45.2

Average Away
42.5/39.3

Numbers matter, your opinion does not.

What the number however misses is the context and impact. Rizwan is absolutely brilliant but how they compare needs more than numbers. Level of opposition, circumstances and any other parameter that is relevant to measure the degree of challenge that they have faced needs to be factored in. Otherwise these debates that one is better than the other continues to be subjective.

 

[Mesozoic]

Lol at Indians and their fans here trying to sell Pant over Rizwan when

Rizwan over Pant has

- superior ODI and T20 record
- Equivalent Test record (more consistent though)
- much better WK skills

... like I said this stats here will break myths like in previous threads

Azhar Ali vs Pujara
Misbah-Pak vs Kohli-Ind

Our fans are victims of radical propaganda by toxic haters here with zero knowledge of game. Yes we are no world beaters but with the amount of resources and problems we have, our team does well and most of the times almost on par with Indians who have spent billions on the game.

Oh the delusions.

 

[Mamoon]

Pant vs. our best player Babar, who would you pick?

Pant.

Babar is a very good batsman but he is timid and lacks presence at the crease. He has the natural talent but not the guts that are required to become a top, top player.

On the other hand, Pant is one of the impactful and feared players in the world. If given the choice, I would happily swap the two.

I would open with Pant in LOIs and he will become our Gilchrist. He would play the role people want Fakhar and Sharjeel to play but they do not have the ability and mentality to do so. In Tests, I would bat him at number 6 and he will play many game-changing innings.

Pakistani fans overhype Babar because he is head and shoulders above everyone else in Pakistan such is the lack of talent in Pakistan.

However, the reality is that he is comparable to the fringe Indian batsmen like KL Rahul, Iyer and Agarwal. You put them and Babar in the same team and Babar is not going to look like a much better player.

He only stands out when he is playing alongside other mediocre Pakistani batsmen who are not even good enough to be Indian fringe batsmen. Babar will never be a Kohli or a Rohit.

On the contrary, Pant is a once in a century talent. Even a country like India which is overflowing with talent will struggle to produce a player like him frequently. He has a genuine shot at eclipsing Gilchrist as the greatest WK batsman of all time.

 

[Mamoon]

Ignoramuses will tell you that Rizwan has a superior LOI record which means he is a much better batsman in the shorter formats.

The reality is Rizwan is not 50% the Limited Overs batsman Pant is.

The problem is that Pant is unlikely to get a shot at the top of the order in LOIs in the near future because India is overloaded with top-order batsmen.

Pant’s game is perfect for opening in LOIs. He will tear bowling attacks apart and take full advantage of PP overs. If he opens, he will easily score 20+ ODI hundreds and average 45+ at a SR of 110+.

 

[MHN1293]

Ignoramuses will tell you that Rizwan has a superior LOI record which means he is a much better batsman in the shorter formats.

The reality is Rizwan is not 50% the Limited Overs batsman Pant is.

The problem is that Pant is unlikely to get a shot at the top of the order in LOIs in the near future because India is overloaded with top-order batsmen.

Pant’s game is perfect for opening in LOIs. He will tear bowling attacks apart and take full advantage of PP overs. If he opens, he will easily score 20+ ODI hundreds and average 45+ at a SR of 110+.

Let him first average 30 in list a then you can proceed with your bhangra of his greatness.

 

[Pakhs]

Let him first average 30 in list a then you can proceed with your bhangra of his greatness.

Lol this guy never makes sense even by mistake. Pant is a good batsman who is in great form with the bat currently. So far in his LOI career he has been trying to bat at a SR that is too high for him and hence failing more often than not.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Rizwan looks like someone who will comfortably have a 15 years career and end up with respectable numbers. Would probably get to captain Pakistan too for many years and would most likely be a good one at that.

Rishabh Pant is an enigma. If he plays even 7-8 years of the brand of Cricket that he does he will retire an ATG. Only thing is he might not even be playing for India in even 6 months time. Wild thing. Players like him come once in a generation and change the game forever.

 

[Ab Fan]

Ignoramuses will tell you that Rizwan has a superior LOI record which means he is a much better batsman in the shorter formats.

The reality is Rizwan is not 50% the Limited Overs batsman Pant is.

The problem is that Pant is unlikely to get a shot at the top of the order in LOIs in the near future because India is overloaded with top-order batsmen.

Pant’s game is perfect for opening in LOIs. He will tear bowling attacks apart and take full advantage of PP overs. If he opens, he will easily score 20+ ODI hundreds and average 45+ at a SR of 110+.

Pant is Gilchrist level talent, while Rizwan is a Watling level.

Ignorant will ignore and hype their players for now and 3-4 years later when they will be proved wrong, they will jump onto some other young player's bandwagon. Just only 9-10 months ago, it was Naseem Shah. But now they have jumped onto Rizwan's bandwagon and hyping him.

 

[Pakhs]

Pant is Gilchrist level talent, while Rizwan is a Watling level.

Ignorant will ignore and hype their players for now and 3-4 years later when they will be proved wrong, they will jump onto some other young player's bandwagon. Just only 9-10 months ago, it was Naseem Shah. But now they have jumped onto Rizwan's bandwagon and hyping him.

Just only 8 months ago Pant was no where and was dropped from all sides. Its you who is jumping at things and you are talking about a player who has clear wicket keeping deficiencies that has been acknowledged by almost all experts and had one good year with the bat for a wicket keeper batsman.

Nothing special if you consider him a batsman who can keep which is what he is at the moment. Gilchrist keeping was never questioned and we have all seen how Pant performed in NZ as compared to Rizwan, Pant was also dropped in England for his poor keeping and batting where Rizwan won the man of the series award.

Above are just some examples and for now I dont want to compare proper keepers to someone who can keep Rahul style. For now Pant should be compared to Rahul and see who is better going forward and indeed these comparisons have already started in the Indian camps.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

Pant is Gilchrist level talent, while Rizwan is a Watling level.

Ignorant will ignore and hype their players for now and 3-4 years later when they will be proved wrong, they will jump onto some other young player's bandwagon. Just only 9-10 months ago, it was Naseem Shah. But now they have jumped onto Rizwan's bandwagon and hyping him.

What happened to Prithvi Shaw? He has more Pakistani fans like me these days than Indians. Meanwhile some Indians in another thread are talking about how Pant will only raise his keeping to another level because 50 million is at stake.

No need to generalize. Also you are generally a good poster so you should know how to spot a troll when you see one. Whether or not they pander to narratives that make you feel good or not, there is a disingenuous agenda behind them which actually does not do justice to what he is actually saying. How can you believe he genuinely means these compliments if his entire agenda is to badmouth Pakistan cricket?

Take it from someone like me who is unwilling to sell out my country, Pant is no doubt an elite talent with the potential to become an ATG. And Rizwan may or may not be comparable. But what is wrong with hyping?

 

[Ab Fan]

Just only 8 months ago Pant was no where and was dropped from all sides. Its you who is jumping at things and you are talking about a player who has clear wicket keeping deficiencies that has been acknowledged by almost all experts and had one good year with the bat for a wicket keeper batsman.

Nothing special if you consider him a batsman who can keep which is what he is at the moment. Gilchrist keeping was never questioned and we have all seen how Pant performed in NZ as compared to Rizwan, Pant was also dropped in England for his poor keeping and batting where Rizwan won the man of the series award.

Above are just some examples and for now I dont want to compare proper keepers to someone who can keep Rahul style. For now Pant should be compared to Rahul and see who is better going forward and indeed these comparisons have already started in the Indian camps.

Pant was hardly dropped from test format 8 months ago. He played both the NZ matches and was dropped from only pink ball test vs Australia recently due to fitness issue and bad IPL. But there was never any denying of his talent and it was only matter of time before he delivered and he did.

He has played match and series winning knocks already in Australia and vs England which no other Asian keeper batsman has achieved and he is just 23. As for keeping, Gilchrist debuted in tests at age of 28 in 1999 so obviously his keeping will not be question mark at that age. The keeping argument was unnecessary overblown and he put it to rest with his keeping vs England at home.

Also quite absurd that you are mentioning that Pant was dropped in England when he wasn't lol and it was his debut series and he got a test hundred too.

 

[Mesozoic]

Nothing special if you consider him a batsman who can keep which is what he is at the moment. Gilchrist keeping was never questioned and we have all seen how Pant performed in NZ as compared to Rizwan,Pant was also dropped in England for his poor keeping and batting where Rizwan won the man of the series award.

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When did this happen?