The case for Karachi as one of the venues for the upcoming international games

[MenInG]

Its simple.

The last images of a top-tier cricket team playing in Pakistan are those of a military helicopter evacuating Sri Lanka players from the middle of the Gaddafi Stadium. Why would Sri Lanka or any other feel safe playing at the same venue?

IMO, if you wish to wash away the demons of that day in 2009, it would be much better to play in a different city such as Karachi.

Unfortunately, the choice of Lahore appears more driven by political considerations.

I understand my view will be tough to take for a few but lets discuss this.

 

[Forum363]

Sethi has already addressed this. They have been trying to pitch Karachi however the players and relevant security teams themselves prefer Lahore. Largely due to the succesful holding of the PSL final there.

So for that reason Lahore is the preferred venue over any other city right now, despite the last attack on the team.

We can all debate about karachi vs lahore now and cry politics and racism etc.

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

Its simple.

The last images of a top-tier cricket team playing in Pakistan are those of a military helicopter evacuating Sri Lanka players from the middle of the Gaddafi Stadium. Why would Sri Lanka or any other feel safe playing at the same venue?

IMO, if you wish to wash away the demons of that day in 2009, it would be much better to play in a different city such as Karachi.

Unfortunately, the choice of Lahore appears more driven by political considerations.

I understand my view will be tough to take for a few but lets discuss this.

Correct!
In fact I feel that all this drama is due to tje fact that Sethi is not on the same page as the Sindh Govt and he is an open ally of the Federal Govt.Hence he is making such gaseous statements that noone is ready to tour Karachi even though Karachi is 100 times safer and more liberal than Lahore.

2002 blast
2009 gun attack
All took place in Lahore.
Ideologically Karachi has always been a secular city which is home to all religions of the SC living together on the other hand I believe talibanization has always been strong in Lahore.
The last terrorist attack in Karachi took place in 2014 when I entered Med school
The last terrorist attack in Lahore took place about a month ago...

 

[kingusama92]

I'm not an expert but isn't Lahore safer than Karachi (crime rate)?

They might not want to tangle with local authorities in Karachi since most of the PCB's connections are in Lahore.

 

[sshakir411]

Precisely. Also, lets not forget the fact that the last bombing that took place in the country was also in Lahore. What is the 'safety' based/judged on? Past experiences? Assumptions? I genuinely want to know.

 

[Syed1]

Not going to happen till Sethi and Noon government is around.

 

[Syed1]

I'm not an expert but isn't Lahore safer than Karachi (crime rate)?

They might not want to tangle with local authorities in Karachi since most of the PCB's connections are in Lahore.

Karachi is ten times safer than Lahore now.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

Karachi is ten times safer than Lahore now.

Amen to that!

 

[MenInG]

I dont believe any city is safer than the other in terms of terrorism in Pakistan. People who want to cause damage can sit in a car and travel wherever they wish to go so depriving Karachi is not good.

 

[PakLFC]

If not Karachi then other venues should be considered. Karachi and Peshawar do still have a volatile reputation.

 

[JoniInsafian]

Karachi is one of the murder capitals of the world.... Sectarian violence, Gang violence, ethnic violence.... Everything. There are so many western documentaries about the hell of Karachi that no foreign player will want to go there, even if it is safer since army showed MQM and Altaf their aukat.... There is even a Call of Duty map called Karachi...

The first thing someone from west thinks of when they hear Karachi is lots of people, terrorism and gang violence... Lahore doesn't have an image problem...

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

Build Rafi stadium. That area can be safely secured for cricket.

I don't trust Karachi administrators to handle security arrangements. Leave it to Bahria town.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

Karachi is one of the murder capitals of the world.... Sectarian violence, Gang violence, ethnic violence.... Everything. There are so many western documentaries about the hell of Karachi that no foreign player will want to go there, even if it is safer since army showed MQM and Altaf their aukat.... There is even a Call of Duty map called Karachi...

The first thing someone from west thinks of when they hear Karachi is lots of people, terrorism and gang violence... Lahore doesn't have an image problem...

So what you are implying is that Karachi is the crime hub of Pakistan and nothing happens in Lahore. The Foreigners don't see Pakistan that way. They don't see the difference between the security situation in FATA to the security situation in Lahore. Teams did not refuse to come to Lahore after the Sri Lankan team bus attack, they refused to come to Pakistan. Karachi of today is comparatively more peaceful then the Karachi of 2008, but still it managed to host international teams without any hassle. So don't give us this bull***t line of Lahore being safer for cricket then Karachi.

 

[ahsan17]

Karachi is one of the murder capitals of the world.... Sectarian violence, Gang violence, ethnic violence.... Everything. There are so many western documentaries about the hell of Karachi that no foreign player will want to go there, even if it is safer since army showed MQM and Altaf their aukat.... There is even a Call of Duty map called Karachi...

The first thing someone from west thinks of when they hear Karachi is lots of people, terrorism and gang violence... Lahore doesn't have an image problem...

You are stuck in the past. Look up recent crime related statistics. Lahore has had several terrorist attacks in the last 1-2 years. How many has Karachi had?

 

[Cricket lover 27]

Karachi is one of the murder capitals of the world.... Sectarian violence, Gang violence, ethnic violence.... Everything. There are so many western documentaries about the hell of Karachi that no foreign player will want to go there, even if it is safer since army showed MQM and Altaf their aukat.... There is even a Call of Duty map called Karachi...

The first thing someone from west thinks of when they hear Karachi is lots of people, terrorism and gang violence... Lahore doesn't have an image problem...

Build Rafi stadium. That area can be safely secured for cricket.

I don't trust Karachi administrators to handle security arrangements. Leave it to Bahria town.

In 2009 even an incompetent government like PPP was able to conduct a Test match safely in Karachi and the next stop was Lahore and we all know what happened there.

 

[Syed1]

Build Rafi stadium. That area can be safely secured for cricket.

I don't trust Karachi administrators to handle security arrangements. Leave it to Bahria town.

Yeah so you trust the Lahore administrators who were unable to prevent the attacks on the SL team and the multiple attacks on the citizens of Lahore every year.



All hail Noora logic.

 

[sshakir411]

So what you are implying is that Karachi is the crime hub of Pakistan and nothing happens in Lahore. The Foreigners don't see Pakistan that way. They don't see the difference between the security situation in FATA to the security situation in Lahore. Teams did not refuse to come to Lahore after the Sri Lankan team bus attack, they refused to come to Pakistan. Karachi of today is comparatively more peaceful then the Karachi of 2008, but still it managed to host international teams without any hassle. So don't give us this bull***t line of Lahore being safer for cricket then Karachi.

lets not forget that the one cricket team that was actually attacked was done so in Lahore and not Karachi. Lahore is the only city in the world that has had a cricket team attacked and yet it is considered safer? I seriously don't get the logic here.

 

[Slog]

Sethi has already addressed this. They have been trying to pitch Karachi however the players and relevant security teams themselves prefer Lahore. Largely due to the succesful holding of the PSL final there.

So for that reason Lahore is the preferred venue over any other city right now, despite the last attack on the team.

We can all debate about karachi vs lahore now and cry politics and racism etc.

That is fairly naive on your part

PCB never has made a serious pitch for Karachi seriously so how do you expect it to be a sell to foreigners

Mind you it was Lahore where terrorists roamed freely and shot the Sri Lankan cricket team

It is Lahore where there are terrorist attacks every few months

And it was Karachi which held the first cricket event with international players after the 2009 shooting in Lahore. But PCB gave no support to it. Still Jayasuriya and the likes came

There is no reason for people of Karachi to cry racism. Lahore runs on the tax rupees from Karachi everyone knows

 

[kingusama92]

Going by the posts in this thread, you'd assume Lahore and Karachi are in different countries.

The PCB's reasons for choosing Lahore most likely include:

1) Successfully Hosted A Team In Lahore (Zimbabwe)
2) Stronger Political Connections To Make Security Arrangements A Breeze
3) National Cricket Academy Close To Stadium (If Security Risks Present At Hotel)

In the end, a series in Lahore > no series at all.

 

[khanz141]

And why is it always needed to shove everything down into Lahore and Karachi only. As if the rest of the country is not Pakistan at all but are some fill in the blanks and there for nothing. Peshawar probably has the best police force and government out of all the country right now, yet Peshawar is always ignored when any such such big events and projects come up.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

lets not forget that the one cricket team that was actually attacked was done so in Lahore and not Karachi. Lahore is the only city in the world that has had a cricket team attacked and yet it is considered safer? I seriously don't get the logic here.

And that's my point. People can't fool us by hiding their hidden agendas.

 

[Plumb]

Unable to understand that Khi being ignored for hosting psl final as well as hosting any international team and the place where issue happened in past has been given the go ahead...

 

[choclate]

Unfortunately, the choice of Lahore appears more driven by political considerations.

I understand my view will be tough to take for a few but lets discuss this.

Have to disagree, the security setup and the ability to execute a secure city operation in Lahore is way advanced compared to Karachi, that's not a political calculation but a raw security analysis. It's clear to all stake holders and specially the folks responsible for security. I am all for having a game in Karachi if possible but the confidence to have it securely is much lower compared to Lahore. Nothing is fool proof but have to side in favor of statistics in terms of security possibility

 

[kingusama92]

The PCB has barely managed to woo teams into visiting Lahore.

The uncertainty of building a robust security plan in another city is unrealistic right now.

 

[Syed1]

Have to disagree, the security setup and the ability to execute a secure city operation in Lahore is way advanced compared to Karachi, that's not a political calculation but a raw security analysis. It's clear to all stake holders and specially the folks responsible for security. I am all for having a game in Karachi if possible but the confidence to have it securely is much lower compared to Lahore. Nothing is fool proof but have to side in favor of statistics in terms of security possibility

That is why the 2009 attacks on the SL team happened, OR the bomb blasts that take place quite often. One being as recent as a month ago.

 

[Forum363]

That is fairly naive on your part

PCB never has made a serious pitch for Karachi seriously so how do you expect it to be a sell to foreigners

Mind you it was Lahore where terrorists roamed freely and shot the Sri Lankan cricket team

It is Lahore where there are terrorist attacks every few months

And it was Karachi which held the first cricket event with international players after the 2009 shooting in Lahore. But PCB gave no support to it. Still Jayasuriya and the likes came

There is no reason for people of Karachi to cry racism. Lahore runs on the tax rupees from Karachi everyone knows

Well I apologise for my naivity, please do enlighten me. How exactly do you know the PCB has not made a serious attempt?

And to many foreigners, including most of the people Ive spoken to in London, Karachi is viewed as the unsafest part of pakistan. Whether that is completely accurate or not is a sperate issue as the ONLY thing that matters here is people's perception. And the truth is that teams are now willing to visit lahore despite the past because they view the security arrangements as more stringement.

 

[kingusama92]

To add to my point.

To a question, [Najam Sethi] said that the PCB tried to convince the foreign teams to play matches other than Lahore but they rejected it on the grounds that since Lahore staged the final of last edition of the PSL amidst good security they will be comfortable to play at Lahore.

It will take time and they should be looking at hosting a PSL match in Karachi first.

 

[waleed88]

All recent stats point to the fact that Karachi is more safer than Lahore, the number of terrorists attacks that have taken place in Lahore proves that

 

[cricketerB94]

LOL..

This thread should be declared as the face of Pakistan.

People are showing so much unity.

Supporters from all the regions are on the same page. There is no regional bias in their comments and people are so happy that cricket is coming back to Pakistan.

Kudos to OP.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

LOL..

This thread should be declared as the face of Pakistan.

People are showing so much unity.

Supporters from all the regions are on the same page. There is no regional bias in their comments and people are so happy that cricket is coming back to Pakistan.

Kudos to OP.

Well, people can have their differences but at the end of the day we are all Pakistanis.

 

[Major]

Seeing the situation we are in, be grateful that Pakistan is getting a match atleast.

 

[cricketerB94]

Well, people can have their differences but at the end of the day we are all Pakistanis.

An obvious thing some people need to realize.

 

[ExplicitAI]

If they didn't want to host it in Lahore because of security fears then can't they host it in other places such as Peshawar, Quetta or Azad Kashmir? Nothing weird is gonna happen over there I think.

 

[asfandyar]

I'm not an expert but isn't Lahore safer than Karachi (crime rate)?

They might not want to tangle with local authorities in Karachi since most of the PCB's connections are in Lahore.

Like I said in the other thread, Karachi is less safe for the common man, but safer for the VIPs compared to Lahore. Street crimes, target killings, and domestic violence affects the common man. VIPs surrounded by armed guards are more at risk from bomb blasts, which have been quite common in Lahore of late. The same people who were part of the government during the attack on Sri Lankan team are again part of the government in Lahore.

The question here is not "why no international matches in Karachi?" but "why was the PSL final not held in Karachi?" or "Why can't the next PSL final be held in Karachi so more teams feel comfortable?" Why was the same city where the attack on Sri Lankan team took place chosen as a venue for PSL final?

Sethi said in his interview that the teams / players were hesitant to play in Karachi, whereas Lahore was considered a decent choice as PSL final was held there. The last bomb blast took place after the PSL final. Does Sethi mean to say that players are brave enough to play in a city where a bomb blast took place recently, compared to one where such events have reduced dramatically, given that arrangements at both venues will be overseen by the same organization (PCB)?

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

Karachi didn't get the nod because its administrators are incompetent and instill zero confidence. Get your house in order.

 

[asfandyar]

LOL..

This thread should be declared as the face of Pakistan.

People are showing so much unity.

Supporters from all the regions are on the same page. There is no regional bias in their comments and people are so happy that cricket is coming back to Pakistan.

Kudos to OP.

Actually, it is not a case of regional bias. I, for one, can't travel to Lahore to watch a match, but would definitely have gone had it been held in Karachi. Karachi was a logically safer choice, and labeling an opposing stance against arranging the matches in the very city where cricketers were attacked as regional bias is outrageous. A bomb blast in Lahore causes an equal amount of pain in my heart as one that takes place in Karachi.

Opposite extremes of a viewpoint are both dangerous and unhealthy. On one hand there are regionalists who try to play the "Karachi" card every now and then. On the other hand are the morally-upright-holier-than-thou's who are quick to label even sentences like "It is raining in Karachi" as regional bias.

 

[Syed1]

Lahore getting all the matches instead of Karachi, is like Detroit being favoured again and again over New York. Garbage mentality from Punjabi politicians who win from one province and rule over entire Pakistan.

 

[taxzu]

Have to disagree, the security setup and the ability to execute a secure city operation in Lahore is way advanced compared to Karachi, that's not a political calculation but a raw security analysis. It's clear to all stake holders and specially the folks responsible for security. I am all for having a game in Karachi if possible but the confidence to have it securely is much lower compared to Lahore. Nothing is fool proof but have to side in favor of statistics in terms of security possibility

What are you talking about.Karachi has more cantonment areas and 4 times more armed forces presence than Lahore. Karachi got bad repute because of gang related crimes and steet crimes which are way lower than metropolitan cities of USA. And street gangs and ethnic target killers don't attack cricket team. NY has higher street crimes and murders that Karachi had at worse of times. Even terrorist attacks in Karachi are way lower than Lahore in last 16 years.

 

[taxzu]

Karachi didn't get the nod because its administrators are incompetent and instill zero confidence. Get your house in order.

Karachi is defacto run by Pakistan army, rangers and intelligence agencies. Karachi's security forces have arrested more terrorist than any one else. Correct your facts please.

 

[asfandyar]

Karachi is one of the murder capitals of the world.... Sectarian violence, Gang violence, ethnic violence.... Everything. There are so many western documentaries about the hell of Karachi that no foreign player will want to go there, even if it is safer since army showed MQM and Altaf their aukat.... There is even a Call of Duty map called Karachi...

The first thing someone from west thinks of when they hear Karachi is lots of people, terrorism and gang violence... Lahore doesn't have an image problem...

Actually, that thought is a subset of the fear that Pakistan is a war zone. If someone overcomes their fear of travelling to Pakistan, then they automatically nullify their fear of travelling to the "murder capital". Moreover, gang violence, ethnic violence is less likely to affect foreign players with armed guards, compared to bomb blasts.

 

[MenInG]

Welcoming the ICC’s decision to send a Word Xi squad to Pakistan for Independence Cup, former Pakistan captain Javed Miandad Thursday lashed out at Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB) for ignoring Karachi as a potential venue for hosting international matches.

“We welcome World XI's tour to Pakistan next month,” Miandad told SAMAA.

The cricket legend, however, said that Karachi and other cities should also international matches.

"It was Lahore, where Sri Lankan cricket team came under terrorist attack, which ended international cricket in the country," he recalled.

"If international can return to Lahore than why not to Karachi," he maintained.

Earlier, PCB said that all three matches featuring World XI would be played at Qadddafi Stadium in Lahore. – SAMAA

https://www.samaa.tv/sports/2017/08/miandad-slams-pcb-ignoring-karachi-cities/

Also quotes from Javed Miandad:

"It augurs well for the future that a foreign team is coming to Pakistan"

"When Zimbabwe came to Lahore, we were promised that the next matches will be held in Karachi"

"Karachi produced some of the best cricketers of the country and there is no problem in this city; Karachi is the most peaceful city at the moment

 

[MightyObnoxious]

The approved high-secure hotel in Lahore is 6km from the stadium. The distance is 11km in Karachi. Increases SL team style attack threat.Access road for Gaddafi are easily blocked w/o disrupting traffic. Hafeez Kardar rd is internal to sports complex.National Stadium is adjacent to a major thoroughfare and that cannot be blocked for multiple days, unlike Gaddafi's security plan.ECB security consultant Reg Dickason who has been hired for World XI game by PCB has the ultimate say, not PCB, or any govt, and Khi is nowhere near getting approval from a third party. It's not in local hands to gain approval for which city will host ultimately, if any.

 

[MenInG]

The approved high-secure hotel in Lahore is 6km from the stadium. The distance is 11km in Karachi. Increases SL team style attack threat.Access road for Gaddafi are easily blocked w/o disrupting traffic. Hafeez Kardar rd is internal to sports complex.National Stadium is adjacent to a major thoroughfare and that cannot be blocked for multiple days, unlike Gaddafi's security plan.ECB security consultant Reg Dickason who has been hired for World XI game by PCB has the ultimate say, not PCB, or any govt, and Khi is nowhere near getting approval from a third party. It's not in local hands to gain approval for which city will host ultimately, if any.

if Pakistan is so unsafe that a 5 km distance difference means that players will or will not be attacked then why the heck are we even considering cricket in Pakistan?

 

[MightyObnoxious]

if Pakistan is so unsafe that a 5 km distance difference means that players will or will not be attacked then why the heck are we even considering cricket in Pakistan?

Increases the risk doesn't necessary mean will be attacked. Also, read my entire post.

 

[asfandyar]

The approved high-secure hotel in Lahore is 6km from the stadium. The distance is 11km in Karachi. Increases SL team style attack threat.Access road for Gaddafi are easily blocked w/o disrupting traffic. Hafeez Kardar rd is internal to sports complex.National Stadium is adjacent to a major thoroughfare and that cannot be blocked for multiple days, unlike Gaddafi's security plan.ECB security consultant Reg Dickason who has been hired for World XI game by PCB has the ultimate say, not PCB, or any govt, and Khi is nowhere near getting approval from a third party. It's not in local hands to gain approval for which city will host ultimately, if any.

Just like suicide attempts are more common in people who have attempted before, terrorist attacks on cricketers are also more likely in areas where they have taken before. Whether the National Stadium is 11km or 100km from the accommodation, the risk in Lahore will always be multifold (under the same administration) merely because of the fact that an incident has occurred before.

 

[farhan]

Racism and the hatred they have against karachi is the main cause of all the games held in lahore.

 

[MenInG]

Increases the risk doesn't necessary mean will be attacked. Also, read my entire post.

The rest of your post may have merit but when you start with the 6-11km argument, it does make it difficult to move on from there

 

[Abdullah719]

Why isn’t World XI coming to Karachi, Sindh minister asks Sethi

As Lahore is set to host the World XI T20 cricket tournament, politicians in the rest of the country have questioned why matches haven’t been scheduled in other cities.

Sindh Information Minister Nasir Hussain Shah has disapproved Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB) chairman Najam Sethi’s attitude in this regard, Express News reports.

Talking to reporters in Karachi on Monday, the provincial minister said that despite written requests to the PCB by the Sindh government, no matches were scheduled in Karachi.

Shah said if international wrestlers could come to Karachi, there was no reason cricketers couldn’t play in the metropolitan city.

The World XI, which will play three T20Is from Tuesday, arrived in Lahore Sunday with air surveillance and dozens of police vans in attendance.

Pakistan has not hosted top-level international cricket — barring five limited over matches against minnows Zimbabwe in 2015 since the Sri Lankan team bus was attacked by terrorists in March 2009, killing eight people and injuring seven players and staff.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1503363/isnt-world-xi-coming-karachi-sindh-minister-asks-sethi/

 

[htariq25]

Aint gonna be any cricket outside Punjab while noon league is in power.

 

[Syed1]

Aint gonna be any cricket outside Punjab while noon league is in power.

Punjab choro abhi tou Noora Lahore se bahir nahi nikal rahay

 

[htariq25]

Punjab choro abhi tou Noora Lahore se bahir nahi nikal rahay

Yaar lohr lohr hai and PML cant live without seeing their beloved Lahore host ALL of the home international matches.

 

[Firebreaker]

There must be something wrong due to which they are hosting matches just in Lahore

 

[Gabbar Singh]

From a security POV wouldn't Islamabad be the ideal choice? Since the Marriott bombing some years ago there hasn't been a major terrorist attack there. I certainly can't think of any in the last 2-3 years anyway. Whereas Lahore seems to get attacked several times a year.

 

[MenInG]

Interior Minister Ahsan Iqbal said on Saturday that after the World XI matches in Lahore, the government would also host international cricket in Karachi soon.

“We will soon get security clearance for Karachi to host international cricket there too,” he told in reporters in Islamabad.

The minister said the recent World XI tour had washed away the stigma of terrorism from Pakistan that once tarnished its image.

“We have dismantled terrorist networks and World XI tour has washed away the stains of terrorism from our country,” he added.

Attacks in Balochistan directed from across western border, says Ahsan Iqbal

Praising the erstwhile prime minister Nawaz Sharif, Iqbal said the credit of the booming economy went entirely to his party.

“It was a huge challenge. Around 4,000 MW electricity was produced under the leadership of Nawaz Sharif which was not a result of some magic but real and practical efforts put in by the former prime minister,” he said.

Speaking of the Panamagate verdict, the minister said everyone in this country had a right to fair trial, however, the deposed PM was not offered one.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1508189/karachi-will-host-international-cricket-soon-ahsan-iqbal/

 

[Slog]

From a security POV wouldn't Islamabad be the ideal choice? Since the Marriott bombing some years ago there hasn't been a major terrorist attack there. I certainly can't think of any in the last 2-3 years anyway. Whereas Lahore seems to get attacked several times a year.

There is no ground there of international standard

 

[maxamax]

Just asking, whats wrong with Rawalpindi being the host?

 

[MenInG]

Just asking, whats wrong with Rawalpindi being the host?

Nothing wrong with it!

 

[maxamax]

Nothing wrong with it!

Then why not?

 

[bujhee kom]

Actually, that thought is a subset of the fear that Pakistan is a war zone. If someone overcomes their fear of travelling to Pakistan, then they automatically nullify their fear of travelling to the "murder capital". Moreover, gang violence, ethnic violence is less likely to affect foreign players with armed guards, compared to bomb blasts.

I dont thini karachi is on the most violent city list.