The concept of Hur-ul-Ain in Islam: is this not objectification of women?

[Colorblind Genius]

And the women get what???? Believing all this is an insult to your intelligence

Lots of beauty, food and sex - and no worry of any kind.

There is no need to insult the intelligence ... try using two brain cells.

Or is it YOU who wants to decide what women should or should not get in heaven? But before you do that, try to see if you can stop farting yourself a few times a day?

 

[SalimBhai]

Lots of beauty, food and sex - and no worry of any kind.

There is no need to insult the intelligence ... try using two brain cells.

Or is it YOU who wants to decide what women should or should not get in heaven? But before you do that, try to see if you can stop farting yourself a few times a day?

You only need one brain cell to figure out what a joke it is what you are selling. . Anyway your right to believe the absurd Go on

 

[Technics 1210]

I think Atheists are jealous here. I mean they believe they will end up with nothing but cannot stomach the fact that men and women end up with something in Theism.

I personally wouldn't waste time appeasing the insecurities of Athiests.

 

[RexRex]

What’s funny is your inability to understand that not every man would want to be with 99 women. Perhaps some men love their wives so much that their idea of heaven would be to be with their wife only and not 99 other women.

I have no idea what you're on about. The concept of men loving women hasn't changed from the 7th century to the 21st century. What has changed is women's rights and their ability to put their foot down. A husband will get a tight slap from his wife if he asks for another couple of wives. It isn't some noble concept of male magnanimity or monogamy.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Here is an interesting description of paradise by the famous Imam Ghazali. This is far beyond what Vegas or Amsterdam can offer to a man. Don't understand the obsession with sex and quantity.

Imam Ghazzali: Ihya Uloom Ed-Din - Page 430
https://archive.org/details/GAZALIIhyaUlumAlDin4/page/n215/mode/2up


A man asked the Prophet : O Prophet of God, will the inmates of Paradise have sexual intercourse ? He said : Anybody among them will be given sexual strength of seven persons among you. The Prophet said : An inmate of Paradise will have five hundred hurs, four thousand unmarried women and eight thousand widowed women. Each of them will keep embracing him for the duration of his whole worldly life time. He also said : There will be markets in Paradise in which there will be no buy and sale, but there will be men and women. If any man will wish to have sexual intercourse with a woman, he will do at once. The Hurs will sing in Paradise on divine purity and praise — we are most beautiful Hurs and we are for the honoured husbands.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Lots of beauty, food and sex - and no worry of any kind.

There is no need to insult the intelligence ... try using two brain cells.

Or is it YOU who wants to decide what women should or should not get in heaven? But before you do that, try to see if you can stop farting yourself a few times a day?

Just a simple question:

Why so much mention of what men will get in Quran and Hadiths with obscene descriptions but nothing in comparison for women?

 

[SalimBhai]

Just a simple question:

Why so much mention of what men will get in Quran and Hadiths with obscene descriptions but nothing in comparison for women?

Because Quran was written by a bunch of men. It’s obvious to everyone who is not a “believer”.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Because Quran was written by a bunch of men. It’s obvious to everyone who is not a “believer”.

100%, all Islamic books were written by the men for the men. They needed to motivate people to go to wars to expand Islam. That's why there is a lot of reward in this world (war booty, jizya, concubines, etc.) and in afterlife (hoors, palaces, rivers of honey/milk, etc.) for those who fight in the way of Allah.

 

[topspin]

What’s funny is your inability to understand that not every man would want to be with 99 women. Perhaps some men love their wives so much that their idea of heaven would be to be with their wife only and not 99 other women.

There is a difference between the message of a holy book and examples specified within that book. If the Quran was revealed today, the examples would be different.

Again, if you are a non-believer I cannot convince you. There is no logic here. It is all faith. You either believe or you don’t. Whatever I say will be a cop out for you if you are a non-believer.

I'm glad you brought this up because I actually fall into this category. I'm fortunate to have found the one.

The promise of having virgin women in paradise will always be very appealing because unfortunately too many Muslim men are in relationships where they're not sexually satisfied.

 

[SalimBhai]

I'm glad you brought this up because I actually fall into this category. I'm fortunate to have found the one.

The promise of having virgin women in paradise will always be very appealing because unfortunately too many Muslim men are in relationships where they're not sexually satisfied.

And may I dare say women are not satisfied either???

 

[Colorblind Genius]

You only need one brain cell to figure out what a joke it is what you are selling. . Anyway your right to believe the absurd Go on

And you have the right to believe that “the entire universe and everything in it, came together all by itself.”

Not sure how many brain cells did you use to arrive to this conclusion (perhaps zero?) - but go on, stick with it - and I don’t have an issue.

If Atheism works for you - then, good for you.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Just a simple question:

Why so much mention of what men will get in Quran and Hadiths with obscene descriptions but nothing in comparison for women?

You are shooting from the hip, I would avoid arguing with an ignorant.

There are numerous of places in Quran where good men and good women (based on their good actions), and bad men and bad women (based on their actions) are mentioned in the same versus. Many such versus in Quran.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

I think Atheists are jealous here. I mean they believe they will end up with nothing but cannot stomach the fact that men and women end up with something in Theism.

I personally wouldn't waste time appeasing the insecurities of Athiests.

Yep, many Godless Atheist demand evidence of God.
Yet they can’t define as to what would they accept as an evidence of God? And then how are they going to verify and validate that evidence?

I asked an Atheist to prove it to me by a scientific or academic method that “hope” exists?

If you can’t prove by evidence that “hope” exists, then you should not believe in “hope” either - which makes you a “hopeless person”.
And that’s exactly what they are. Hopeless.

 

[Gilly]

I think Atheists are jealous here. I mean they believe they will end up with nothing but cannot stomach the fact that men and women end up with something in Theism.

I personally wouldn't waste time appeasing the insecurities of Athiests.

I cant speak for atheists and no doubt there might be some that are jealous. Most atheists know how and why man created religion to control the people. Insecurity is when you rely on faith and not facts and reason.

 

[Technics 1210]

I cant speak for atheists and no doubt there might be some that are jealous. Most atheists know how and why man created religion to control the people. Insecurity is when you rely on faith and not facts and reason.

Exactly, Atheism is a faith-based ideology and Atheists are hell bent on trying to prove their faith by disproving theism.

It is remarkable that Atheists squander time on theism, day in day out, it's like a bald man worried about his hairstyle!

As for man made, everything is man made in the world. Democracy, Capitalism, MSM - all created to control the people. So do not really see you point.

 

[Technics 1210]

Yep, many Godless Atheist demand evidence of God.
Yet they can’t define as to what would they accept as an evidence of God? And then how are they going to verify and validate that evidence?

I asked an Atheist to prove it to me by a scientific or academic method that “hope” exists?

If you can’t prove by evidence that “hope” exists, then you should not believe in “hope” either - which makes you a “hopeless person”.
And that’s exactly what they are. Hopeless.

Science has disproved atheism. Similar to you, I ask atheists to quantify human memories and empathy in terms of matter, time, and chance - materialism - the cornerstone of Atheism. Zilch.

I just do not understand how Atheists are prepared to waste so much time on challenging so called injustices in theism, when they remain dead silent on injustices carried out in the real world. There is definitely a sense of retribution among atheists.

On top of this, this entire Radical Rainbow Mafia is born out of atheism.

 

[Abel Reames]

Because Quran was written by a bunch of men. It’s obvious to everyone who is not a “believer”.

It is not obvious to believers because their cognitive dissonance kicks into hyperdrive. Of course it is written by men to appeal to other men. Which makes Quran 76 19 slightly worrying.

"There will circulate among them young boys made eternal. When you see them, you would think them [as beautiful as] scattered pearls".

 

[IndoorCricket]

Science has disproved atheism. Similar to you, I ask atheists to quantify human memories and empathy in terms of matter, time, and chance - materialism - the cornerstone of Atheism. Zilch.

I just do not understand how Atheists are prepared to waste so much time on challenging so called injustices in theism, when they remain dead silent on injustices carried out in the real world. There is definitely a sense of retribution among atheists.

On top of this, this entire Radical Rainbow Mafia is born out of atheism.

Science disproved atheism? Please point me to the the experiments or research papers regarding this.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Exactly, Atheism is a faith-based ideology and Atheists are hell bent on trying to prove their faith by disproving theism.

It is remarkable that Atheists squander time on theism, day in day out, it's like a bald man worried about his hairstyle!

As for man made, everything is man made in the world. Democracy, Capitalism, MSM - all created to control the people. So do not really see you point.

Just look at them on this thread. It started off as whether the concept of Hurain was objectification of women, then descended into how lowly it was to have a concept of lust or sex in heaven, then when a few guys said, actually we don't mind a heaven like that, now the furious insults come flying in thick and fast, all spluttering ironically about inadequate sex lives of believers. All this really does is vindicate sexuality as part of paradise. Otherwise why does it matter to the atheist? Indeed it's like a bald man worrying about hairstyles.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Exactly, Atheism is a faith-based ideology and Atheists are hell bent on trying to prove their faith by disproving theism.

It is remarkable that Atheists squander time on theism, day in day out, it's like a bald man worried about his hairstyle!

As for man made, everything is man made in the world. Democracy, Capitalism, MSM - all created to control the people. So do not really see you point.

So you agree that all religions are man made?

 

[Technics 1210]

So you agree that all religions are man made?

No, but why is my opinion important or relevant to you? You are an Atheist, so enjoy your choice of life. If you do not believe in heaven and hell, fine, but why waste time on something you do not believe in? Utterly bizarre.

Atheist get riled up, and post on a pro-Islamic forum, why? Just fail to understand. Perhaps it is Stockholm syndrome.

 

[Champ_Pal]

No, but why is my opinion important or relevant to you? You are an Atheist, so enjoy your choice of life. If you do not believe in heaven and hell, fine, but why waste time on something you do not believe in? Utterly bizarre.

Atheist get riled up, and post on a pro-Islamic forum, why? Just fail to understand. Perhaps it is Stockholm syndrome.

It matters as you are a believer. If a theist says he believes all religions are man made, then he is an atheist.

 

[Technics 1210]

It matters as you are a believer. If a theist says he believes all religions are man made, then he is an atheist.

Nice web of words, but I will not fall into this trap of delusional logic

No Theist says religion is man made because all theists believe in a God, hence religion is inspired by God.

Though nice to see you Atheists care more about religion than theists!

 

[Abel Reames]

It matters as you are a believer. If a theist says he believes all religions are man made, then he is an atheist.

Indeed. And those theists who say only their own religion/God is true are athiest to all religions except their own.

 

[SalimBhai]

Indeed. And those theists who say only their own religion/God is true are athiest to all religions except their own.

And almost lost believe in their religion only ..wait for it…….. because they are born into it . That’s it. Anyway everyone is free to believe in whatever fairy tale you want. There is no compulsion in secularism.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

And almost lost believe in their religion only ..wait for it…….. because they are born into it . That’s it. Anyway everyone is free to believe in whatever fairy tale you want. There is no compulsion in secularism.

Well there is some compulsion, there's definitely a compulsion to bang on and on about religion in every thread despite professing to not care about it.

 

[SalimBhai]

Well there is some compulsion, there's definitely a compulsion to bang on and on about religion in every thread despite professing to not care about it.

This thread is not made by me. I am just commenting. Same as you commenting on other threads.

 

[Justcrazy]

So u can have sex with not a human?

Look firstly you need to understand that the concept of Paradise is that it is different dimensions from this worldy life. Comparing it to world is futile exercise.

Everything about paradise what we know from Quran and hadeeth is different from this space and time we are living in. The point is that those are somethings which you cannot explain in this world.

Yes , many will try , but when it is about different dimensions , there cannot be conclusive answers. Non Muslims or Atheists will raise thousands of objections , even if we get 100 years we cannot answer all . There have been thousands of books written against Islam , do you think it is possible for any person to answer all of them ?

The main point of discussion should be existence of God , rest of the answers will be subordinate to that.

Now , since you asked this question , I will answer that , in this world you have many people using sex doll , and having pleasure from it , so that is also non human.

 

[Justcrazy]

They may be paradise living beings. The way they are described shows that they resemble humans.

Yes , I agree , they do resemble human beings . But even Humans in Paradise will not be like what they are on earth. For example on earth we age and get old and die, there people will remain a certain age and will fade away.

 

[Justcrazy]

We turn into something else other human and have sex with some other non-human entity? And why 72 ?

Your first part I already answered.

Now your question is 72 . To be honest I have not seen any authentic hadeeth which gives that numbers.

The other thing is that , 72 may be not exact figure , it represents big quantity , because when Allah says that even if you ask forgiveness for hypocrites 70 times I will not forgive them. In Arab , they speak in methapor like that.

Look I do not see the reason why you are objecting to this. here in this world a person can marry up to four wives , if it is possible for him. There everything is greater in quantity. All those entities would be married to the dweller of paradise.

In world we see there have been kings who had multiple of queens and escorts , becauset hey could afford them.

Allah will reward you by making you king of your own space. the last person to enter paradise will have kingdom which is ten times the world. So what is the big deal here ? If a person has faith in God , and avoided so many tempting things in the world and sacrificed in his life , he gets his reward.

A student who works and studies hard , avoides playing and parties and gets good grades in exams , that is his reward.

Those who do not believe , should ignore this and live there life the way they want, no one is bothering them.

 

[Justcrazy]

Yes our heavens also have beautiful women. Not some other worldly entities. If you do rightful deeds u will go to heaven and njoy pleasures there. But u will take rebirth.

But the core philosophy says heaven is a state of mind. We might already be in heaven. The ultimate aim is not to go to heaven but to stop the cycle of birth and death.

In Hinduism also there is reference of Physical paradise and hell , and even beautiful damsels for people who die in battle field.

 

[Justcrazy]

Here is an interesting description of paradise by the famous Imam Ghazali. This is far beyond what Vegas or Amsterdam can offer to a man. Don't understand the obsession with sex and quantity.

Imam Ghazzali: Ihya Uloom Ed-Din - Page 430
https://archive.org/details/GAZALIIhyaUlumAlDin4/page/n215/mode/2up


A man asked the Prophet : O Prophet of God, will the inmates of Paradise have sexual intercourse ? He said : Anybody among them will be given sexual strength of seven persons among you. The Prophet said : An inmate of Paradise will have five hundred hurs, four thousand unmarried women and eight thousand widowed women. Each of them will keep embracing him for the duration of his whole worldly life time. He also said : There will be markets in Paradise in which there will be no buy and sale, but there will be men and women. If any man will wish to have sexual intercourse with a woman, he will do at once. The Hurs will sing in Paradise on divine purity and praise — we are most beautiful Hurs and we are for the honoured husbands.

Ghazzali was a sufi , not a hadeeth scholar.

What Ayat or hadeeth Mr Ghazali quoted , did he give any reference?

Without reference , nothing is acceptable in islam , it is also stories.

 

[Justcrazy]

Just a simple question:

Why so much mention of what men will get in Quran and Hadiths with obscene descriptions but nothing in comparison for women?

Women will not be part of paradise ?

 

[SalimBhai]

Women will not be part of paradise ?

The women, do they also get 70 virgin men is the question he is asking…

 

[Colorblind Genius]

The women, do they also get 70 virgin men is the question he is asking…

Why are you so worried? Are you a woman or thinking to become one?

The concept of heaven (IF it exists) that you are in a bliss and there is no worry of any kind.

There perhaps won't be a woman who would yearn for 70 virgin men - unless I guess it's you who may feel like a woman trapped in the body of a man.

 

[SalimBhai]

Why are you so worried? Are you a woman or thinking to become one?

The concept of heaven (IF it exists) that you are in a bliss and there is no worry of any kind.

There perhaps won't be a woman who would yearn for 70 virgin men - unless I guess it's you who may feel like a woman trapped in the body of a man.

I see you are adding your twist to make your view more palatable. . I am pretty sure why I or rest of the world have the same question.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

I see you are adding your twist to make your view more palatable. . I am pretty sure why I or rest of the world have the same question.

Same question about something that you don’t believe in it’s existence?

 

[Colorblind Genius]

I see you are adding your twist to make your view more palatable. . I am pretty sure why I or rest of the world have the same question.

And “rest of the world” consists of about 90% believers.
Which “rest of the world” are you talking about?

 

[SalimBhai]

Why are you so worried? Are you a woman or thinking to become one?

The concept of heaven (IF it exists) that you are in a bliss and there is no worry of any kind.

There perhaps won't be a woman who would yearn for 70 virgin men - unless I guess it's you who may feel like a woman trapped in the body of a man.

Rest of the world is not all Muslim. No Muslims don’t believe these ridiculous stories. . They have their own ridículos stories for consumption .

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Rest of the world is not all Muslim. No Muslims don’t believe these ridiculous stories. . They have their own ridículos stories for consumption .

Yep, and only 10% of the 7+ Billion have got it all figured.

 

[SalimBhai]

Yep, and only 10% of the 7+ Billion have got it all figured.

Sure. If you go by your logic then at one point Muslims were even less than 10 percent right? Atheism is growing and believing in dogmas and superstition is decreasing. Mashalla we are going on the right path. Soon abarhamic faiths will be treated like Greek mythology was.

 

[Justcrazy]

The women, do they also get 70 virgin men is the question he is asking…

In order to justify your question , kindly first show me where it is written that a man will get 70 virgins in Paradise. Once you show me , then only I can comment. Kindly show evidences when you speak. You have been saying several things from your own opinion , and when questioned , you disappear.

This is not correct attitude. Here good discussions are appreciated , but not trols.

 

[SalimBhai]

In order to justify your question , kindly first show me where it is written that a man will get 70 virgins in Paradise. Once you show me , then only I can comment. Kindly show evidences when you speak. You have been saying several things from your own opinion , and when questioned , you disappear.

This is not correct attitude. Here good discussions are appreciated , but not trols.

I think from plenty of posts before this many posters believe in hoors i paradise . Many also believe in 70 odd virgins. You can see that my plenty of posts justifying it. Now 70 virgins are not mentioned in the quran. But they are mentioned in Hadith’s. Now you will claim those hadiths are not accurate or the Hadith was speaking in metaphors. ??? I have heard all the excuses. So please spare me.

 

[SalimBhai]

So the question to you is do you believe in those hadiths??

 

[Sher Khan]

So the question to you is do you believe in those hadiths??

Why am I getting vibes that you do not believe in Islam?

 

[SalimBhai]

You have great instincts

 

[Justcrazy]

I think from plenty of posts before this many posters believe in hoors i paradise . Many also believe in 70 odd virgins. You can see that my plenty of posts justifying it. Now 70 virgins are not mentioned in the quran. But they are mentioned in Hadith’s. Now you will claim those hadiths are not accurate or the Hadith was speaking in metaphors. ??? I have heard all the excuses. So please spare me.

You have asked me a question claiming something about Islam, and you have never read about it in Quran or hadeeth but have heard from others . Is that enough ?

If you seek an answer , you have to show me from authentic source , so that I can see it and then answer you. Is this something wrong ?

If a piece of information is not authentic , we do not have the right to say so also? So that means , whatever you speak about Islam here from your own opinion should by accepted by all Muslims , and they have no right to ask for evidence also , what a great logic !

If you cannot show any evidence I hope being a man of dignity refrain from talking about it.

If you have any hadeeth show it , you are welcome.

 

[SalimBhai]

‎Sunni hadith scholar Al-Tirmidhi quotes Muhammad (Hadith) as having said:

‎The smallest reward for the people of Heaven is an abode where there are eighty thousand servants and seventy-two houri, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from al-Jabiyyah to San'a.

‎Another hadith, also in Jamiʽ at-Tirmidhi and deemed "good and sound" (hasan sahih) gives this reward specifically for the martyr:

‎There are six things with Allah for the martyr. He is forgiven with the first flow of blood (he suffers), he is shown his place in Paradise, he is protected from punishment in the grave, secured from the greatest terror, the crown of dignity is placed upon his head—and its gems are better than the world and what is in it—he is married to seventy-two wives among the wide-eyed houris (Ar. اثْنَتَيْنِ وَسَبْعِينَ زَوْجَةً مِنَ الْحُورِ الْعِينِ) of Paradise, and he may intercede for seventy of his close relatives.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

Sure. If you go by your logic then at one point Muslims were even less than 10 percent right? Atheism is growing and believing in dogmas and superstition is decreasing. Mashalla we are going on the right path. Soon abarhamic faiths will be treated like Greek mythology was.

and if we go your logic then, Atheism will also start declining and become minimum to obsolete when it's time is up?

 

[daytrader]

The women, do they also get 70 virgin men is the question he is asking…

If they want. If Wanda can be happy in the multiverse than why not Sadia in her personal Jannah

 

[Justcrazy]

‎Sunni hadith scholar Al-Tirmidhi quotes Muhammad (Hadith) as having said:

‎The smallest reward for the people of Heaven is an abode where there are eighty thousand servants and seventy-two houri, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from al-Jabiyyah to San'a.

‎Another hadith, also in Jamiʽ at-Tirmidhi and deemed "good and sound" (hasan sahih) gives this reward specifically for the martyr:

‎There are six things with Allah for the martyr. He is forgiven with the first flow of blood (he suffers), he is shown his place in Paradise, he is protected from punishment in the grave, secured from the greatest terror, the crown of dignity is placed upon his head—and its gems are better than the world and what is in it—he is married to seventy-two wives among the wide-eyed houris (Ar. اثْنَتَيْنِ وَسَبْعِينَ زَوْجَةً مِنَ الْحُورِ الْعِينِ) of Paradise, and he may intercede for seventy of his close relatives.

Here we go , the first hadeeth you mentioned is weak hadeeth

https://sunnah.com/tirmidhi:2562

Second one you mention is about Martyrs .

Now you say is it right evidence ? So do you think every Muslim who dies , dies as Martyr ?

 

[SalimBhai]

Here we go , the first hadeeth you mentioned is weak hadeeth

https://sunnah.com/tirmidhi:2562

Second one you mention is about Martyrs .

Now you say is it right evidence ? So do you think every Muslim who dies , dies as Martyr ?

I knew you were going to say it’s a weak Hadith . Apparently not many Muslims and especially Maulana sahib s will agree with you. . So let me just ask you
1: do you believe Muslim men will get 70-71 virgins in heaven
2: what about women , what do they get?
3 wil muslim men get hoors in heaven? What about the women?

 

[SalimBhai]

If they want. If Wanda can be happy in the multiverse than why not Sadia in her personal Jannah

Who is Wanda ?

 

[Justcrazy]

I knew you were going to say it’s a weak Hadith . Apparently not many Muslims and especially Maulana sahib s will agree with you. . So let me just ask you
1: do you believe Muslim men will get 70-71 virgins in heaven
2: what about women , what do they get?
3 wil muslim men get hoors in heaven? What about the women?

I am not a Moulana , kindly speak with respect , not with sarcasam.

The hadeeth was declared weak much before you posted here. 72 is a small number , if you go by weak hadeeth. There are hadeeth which shows the number to be even 4000 . The issue with that hadeeth is in chain of narration there is an unknown narrator . A person whose identity cannot be verified cannot be accepted.

What is known from authentic hadeeth in Muslim is that a person will have two wives. There is also mention of hoor in Quran , we do not know exact number .

A martyr getting damsel in Paradise is part of other religions as well , not just Islam. If someone is given that reward , what is your issue with that? Here also a man can have four wives. There are men around the world who have multople affairs . There women are called concubines , which is okay with you , but when a woman is called wife and is given all rights , you have an issue !

Men or women will have whatever they want conditional to what Allah swt has made them. I give you an example , if I want to become God , that is not going to happen. In world also we have restrictions on all our rights , there is nothing called unconditional rights.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I knew you were going to say it’s a weak Hadith . Apparently not many Muslims and especially Maulana sahib s will agree with you. . So let me just ask you
1: do you believe Muslim men will get 70-71 virgins in heaven
2: what about women , what do they get?
3 wil muslim men get hoors in heaven? What about the women?

You seem unnecessarily belligerent and have already made up your mind. What would you like to gain from these answers?

You seem hung up on what women will get but the real question is what would women want in paradise.

We don't have any female posters here so perhaps its a question to ask your wife or gf?

Please let us know how many men she wants in the hereafter and we can then examine the texts to see if its possible.

Otherwise we are just arguing on behalf of women with no data to back it up.

 

[SalimBhai]

You seem unnecessarily belligerent and have already made up your mind. What would you like to gain from these answers?

You seem hung up on what women will get but the real question is what would women want in paradise.

We don't have any female posters here so perhaps its a question to ask your wife or gf?

Please let us know how many men she wants in the hereafter and we can then examine the texts to see if its possible.

Otherwise we are just arguing on behalf of women with no data to back it up.

Can the same question not be asked from then other side ? Are the texts and people supporting those texts also not deciding on behalf of the women? I will just go out on a limb and say women don’t want there husbands to be with 70-80 other women. I think I am in the ballpark with that one

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Can the same question not be asked from then other side ? Are the texts and people supporting those texts also not deciding on behalf of the women? I will just go out on a limb and say women don’t want there husbands to be with 70-80 other women. I think I am in the ballpark with that one

It's a reasonable question if you are a woman. Are you?

 

[SalimBhai]

I am not a Moulana , kindly speak with respect , not with sarcasam.

The hadeeth was declared weak much before you posted here. 72 is a small number , if you go by weak hadeeth. There are hadeeth which shows the number to be even 4000 . The issue with that hadeeth is in chain of narration there is an unknown narrator . A person whose identity cannot be verified cannot be accepted.

What is known from authentic hadeeth in Muslim is that a person will have two wives. There is also mention of hoor in Quran , we do not know exact number .

A martyr getting damsel in Paradise is part of other religions as well , not just Islam. If someone is given that reward , what is your issue with that? Here also a man can have four wives. There are men around the world who have multople affairs . There women are called concubines , which is okay with you , but when a woman is called wife and is given all rights , you have an issue !

Men or women will have whatever they want conditional to what Allah swt has made them. I give you an example , if I want to become God , that is not going to happen. In world also we have restrictions on all our rights , there is nothing called unconditional rights.

Where did I say concubines are okay with me? Please ping that out. You are making things up as usual . You have a habit of making things up on the fly to make your view palatable. You have been called out on it multiple times by me and some other posters.

 

[Justcrazy]

Where did I say concubines are okay with me? Please ping that out. You are making things up as usual . You have a habit of making things up on the fly to make your view palatable. You have been called out on it multiple times by me and some other posters.

So , this is your response to the points I made in post above ? Now do you have any further questions on this topic ?

 

[RexRex]

It's a reasonable question if you are a woman. Are you?

I believe Salim Bhai has a good point here. How is it that half of humanity aka women have their fate in heaven ignored by the holy books. Do they not count ?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I believe Salim Bhai has a good point here. How is that half of humanity aka women have their fate in heaven ignored by the holy books. Do they not count ?

Of course they do. So are you a woman so we can take your point for serious consideration?

 

[SalimBhai]

So , this is your response to the points I made in post above ? Now do you have any further questions on this topic ?

Your points make no sense.

 

[SalimBhai]

I believe Salim Bhai has a good point here. How is it that half of humanity aka women have their fate in heaven ignored by the holy books. Do they not count ?

It’s very hard for the religious type to see hypocrisy in their views . It’s like the religions blinds them. Oh well

 

[RexRex]

Of course they do. So are you a woman so we can take your point for serious consideration?

Consider me a woman for the purposes of this discussion.

 

[SalimBhai]

Anyway as I said. There is no compulsion in secularism. You are free to believe whatever you like. Be it 70 or virgins or hoors or what not. It’s your right to believe that . The rest of us just have to go along with it.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It’s very hard for the religious type to see hypocrisy in their views . It’s like the religions blinds them. Oh well

But I'm not religious, so now you need to answer without that comfort blanket. Again I ask, are you a woman so we can take your views to represent women seriously?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Consider me a woman for the purposes of this discussion.

That is about as sexist as it gets. If you aren't a woman then to present a woman's perspective from a male POV is really bad.

 

[Justcrazy]

I believe Salim Bhai has a good point here. How is it that half of humanity aka women have their fate in heaven ignored by the holy books. Do they not count ?

How are they ignored ? Islam believes in Gender Justice , not gender identicality .

Are Men and women identical in world , even in most developed nations ?

They would have been ignored if they would not have been mentioned at all. Women of Paradise will be superior to Hoors is mentioned in hadeeth of Tabarani.

Paradise has been created for men and women of the world .

 

[SalimBhai]

How are they ignored ? Islam believes in Gender Justice , not gender identicality .

Are Men and women identical in world , even in most developed nations ?

They would have been ignored if they would not have been mentioned at all. Women of Paradise will be superior to Hoors is mentioned in hadeeth of Tabarani.

Paradise has been created for men and women of the world .

If Islam believes is gender justice then in all the Muslim countries , women would have exceptional rights. The world would be singing Muslim countries praises . Not the case. Actually totally opposite. Even in a rich country like Saudi Arabia women rights are pretty low. In gender inequality index by UN ,majority of the countries in the bottom are Muslim countries. This is a fact and has be addressed before

 

[RexRex]

That is about as sexist as it gets. If you aren't a woman then to present a woman's perspective from a male POV is really bad.

You needn't worry. There's a woman sitting next to me. I am relaying her questions to you regarding this topic.

 

[RexRex]

How are they ignored ? Islam believes in Gender Justice , not gender identicality .

Are Men and women identical in world , even in most developed nations ?

They would have been ignored if they would not have been mentioned at all. Women of Paradise will be superior to Hoors is mentioned in hadeeth of Tabarani.

Paradise has been created for men and women of the world .

Men are being given the full buffet of 72 in Heaven whereas women are not even being mentioned. We are all God's creations so theoretically he should be offering rewards for a good life to the other half of humanity as well.

 

[Justcrazy]

If Islam believes is gender justice then in all the Muslim countries , women would have exceptional rights. The world would be singing Muslim countries praises . Not the case. Actually totally opposite. Even in a rich country like Saudi Arabia women rights are pretty low. In gender inequality index by UN ,majority of the countries in the bottom are Muslim countries. This is a fact and has be addressed before

When we say Islam , it is a religion , when you say Saudi , it is a country.

You are comparing two completely different things.

If you have to compare Islam , then compare with a major religion , otherwise the comparision is at fault.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You needn't worry. There's a woman sitting next to me. I am relaying her questions to you regarding this topic.

Wow so you must be her guardian. This is like how Saudis won't allow women behind the wheel but will tell everyone what she thinks.

 

[SalimBhai]

Well if majority of the countries that are at the bottom of that table happen to be Muslim then a question can be asked . Don’t you agree ? I bet you would come to true same conclusion of the bottom half of that list was for example Hindu.

 

[Justcrazy]

Men are being given the full buffet of 72 in Heaven whereas women are not even being mentioned. We are all God's creations so theoretically he should be offering rewards for a good life to the other half of humanity as well.

Have you read the above posts ? If not can you kindly show me where it is mentioned that women will be given 72 ?

Once you show me hopefully , I will be happy to proceed further and tell you the reason behind that.

Also , you have asked me two questions now , I will take this opportunity to ask one , do you believe in Paradise?

 

[Justcrazy]

Well if majority of the countries that are at the bottom of that table happen to be Muslim then a question can be asked . Don’t you agree ? I bet you would come to true same conclusion of the bottom half of that list was for example Hindu.

Is this question asked to meby any chance ? Because you did not quote me.

 

[SalimBhai]

Is this question asked to meby any chance ? Because you did not quote me.

You mentioned how great islám is for women and gender justice I mentioned that if that was the case then the bottom half of counties ( in gender inequality index ) should not be Muslim majority countries.

 

[Justcrazy]

Your points make no sense.

You come here and present weak hadeeth that makes point . What makes point or not is what readers will judge themselves.

 

[daytrader]

Who is Wanda ?

The Scarlet Witch from Marvel. If we can imagine multiverses then why is it so hard to fathom the concept of a Jannah where one will be happy, be it man or woman

 

[RexRex]

Wow so you must be her guardian. This is like how Saudis won't allow women behind the wheel but will tell everyone what she thinks.

Sort of .. I was teasing her she ain't getting nothing in heaven after I read this thread but she's genuinely curious. What do i tell her ?