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The Eoin Morgan Thread | Is he a Craftsman, Finisher or Just Overrated?

Yes but others have not been rated soo highly as Morgan by the media and the English commentators since the T20 WC.

Becuase the others have not performed as admirably as him

Look, all I'm trying to say is, not Ponting, not Strauss, not Clarke, not KP and a lot of other more experienced and capable players have been able to handle our bowling in these conditions

To single out Morgan failing is harsh on him
 
give him break.. the guy is playing his 2nd test series, and he is up against a very good bowling attack, maybe the best in the world right now. I am pretty sure he will get good. He has a good technique and temperament.
 
How many batsmen on either side have scored a test 100 during the English summer?

That should answer your question.

well said mate. It was the most delightful hundred I've seen in quite sometime, what finesse and strokeplay. I'm sure he'll be much more successful in the tour down under.
 
We will have a better idea by the time the ashes is over. This series has been tough for all the batsmen.
 
well said mate. It was the most delightful hundred I've seen in quite sometime, what finesse and strokeplay. I'm sure he'll be much more successful in the tour down under.

He was bound to get a hundred with number of times Pakistan gave him an extra life line..
 
its another case of fawad alam u cant judge as yet if he is overrated the only difference is this guy is given a chance
 
He's a poor man's Michael Hussey in the Test format. Plays at way too many deliveries he doesn't have to.
 
In Test Matches he is weak especially early on when he pushes at good length balls outside the off stump.

In ODI and T20 he is a champion player, but I am not too convinced about his abilities in the longer format.
 
he should definitely play in the Ashes. most exciting batting prospect to appear for England since Pietersen's run in 2005. *waits for foreign jokes*
 
Eoin Morgan : Overrated as a Finisher?

Maybe I’m being a bit harsh here but I’ve never understood the hype about Eoin Morgan and his finishing capabilities...In T20 cricket I have been impressed but in ODI he has seldom finished off a match for England...


He has been hyped up as being this guy that is calm at the crease and able to bat in tough situations but more often than not he has failed...his dismissals in the last 2 games have shown that he doesn’t handle the pressure well...I’m not disputing his ability as a batsman...hes a good middle order batsman and does seem to bat better when England bat 2nd but a finisher he is not...


Below I have a list of his performances where England have chased a target...he has batted 21 times and of those 21 times he has come into a situation where England were in slight or significant difficulty 15 times and how many times did Morgan finish the games off...just 3 times... and of those 15 games England have won just 7 times...


He is living off those two performances in a row against Bangladesh and Australia...hes a top batsman but a finisher he isn’t...
For more evidence see his England chasing summary below:


Windies 2nd ODI - 2*
Arrived at 157 with the target 161...not really a performance to pass judgment on...


Australia 2nd ODI - 14
Arrived at 97/4 chasing 249...crisis situation and dismissed at 129/5...England lost the game...


Australia 6th ODI - 23
Chasing a tough total of 297...Morgan arrived at 60/4 and was the next man dismissed leaving England at 100/5...England lost the game...


Australia 7th ODI – 2
137/4 with only 40 needed off 20 overs...Morgan came and went at 141/5...not really a crisis situation although his wicket gave Australia brief hope...didnt contribute when it was required of him in this match...


Sri Lanka Champions Trophy – 62*
Brilliant display...England were wobbling at 82/3 and he batted superbly taking England to their 213 target...this is his first finisher performance in ODI’s for England...


South Africa 2nd ODI – 27*
He came to the crease at 207/3 with 44 needed at just a rate of 5.18...he hit a good quickfire innings but the hard work had all been done by Collingwood and Trott prior to his arrival...he helped finish the match but there was no crisis...


South Africa 3rd ODI – 0
Set a terribly tough target of 355 Morgan came in with England 142/4 after 24.6 overs...A healthy run rate but with wickets falling did Morgan finish off the match?... 150/5 he was dismissed by Duminy for a duck and England lost the game...


South Africa 4th ODI – 28*
England skittled out South Africa for 119...Morgan arrived at 83/3 with just 36 runs required...he finished the game but England were never in trouble chasing down a simple target...


Bangladesh 1st ODI – 33
Set a simple target of 229 England slumped to 96/3...Morgan built an 88 run partnership with Collingwood being dismissed at 184/4...he performed well but he didn’t finish the game...he was dismissed 45 runs short and it was down to Prior and Collingwood to carry England home...


Bangladesh 2nd ODI – 110*
Came to the crease with England struggling at 68/3...truly matchwinning display as he batted through and took England from a crisis situation enabling England to reach their 261 target...this is his 2nd finisher performance for England...


Scotland Only ODI – 24*
Bit of a nothing game...he arrived with England 151/3 needing 61 runs off 29 overs...he batted through with Collingwood as England eased home...


Australia 1st ODI – 103*
The best performance of his career...and an excellent follow up to the Bangladesh display...Chasing 268 he arrived with England 81/3...he helped take England home with 4 overs to spare...


Australia 2nd ODI – 52
He batted well but he fell at a crucial moment that could have cost England the game...arriving at 109/3 he and Collingwood batted brilliantly...with Wright dismissed making it 211/5 Morgan was dismissed 4 deliveries later leaving England at a precarious 211/6...Swann and Bresnan finished the match off...


Australia 3rd ODI – 27
Again a reasonable display but again he was dismissed before the finish line...he arrived at 128/3 and was dismissed at 185/4 with England chasing 213...England continued dropping wickets and were 203/9 at one point before Bresnan took them home...another performance where he should of finished but didn’t...it went unrecognised because Bresnan won the match...


Australia 4th ODI – 47
He came in with England chasing a tough chase of 291...he arrived with the score 61/3...he gave a decent performance but was dismissed at 140/5...a crisis situation and Morgan didn’t take the side home as England ended up losing heavily...


Australia 5th ODI – 9
Arrived with England 44/3 chasing 277 and was dismissed cheaply at 72/4...another crisis position and another non performance...


Bangladesh 1st ODI – 23
Arrived with England cruising at 173/3 chasing 251...England needed 77 runs off nearly 20 overs and Morgan was again dismissed before the finish line at 213/4...another easy opportunity to carry his bat but he didn’t...


Bangladesh 2nd ODI – 1
Infamous ODI which England lost...chasing 237 he arrived at the crease at 86/3...crisis situation the cool dude as Rameez calls him was dismissed not long after leaving England languishing at 90/4...England stayed alive in this game solely to the efforts of Trott...


Pakistan 2nd ODI – 16
He arrived with England 220/3 with another 10 overs to go to get 295 and with the stage set for him he was dismissed with England on 260/5...we lost the game but this was certainly not down to Morgan’s supposed finishing ability...


Pakistan 3rd ODI – 61
Lovely innings but an awful dismissal...this supposedly calm individual did well when he came in at 77/3 but having taken his side to 201 chasing 242 he was dismissed...of all of Gul’s dismissals this one could be the one attributed to bad batting...again he didn’t take his side over the line...


Pakistan 4th ODI – 28
Stage was again set for him...He arrived at 149/4 with pressure on and again he flopped and another poor dismissal at 211/8...again he was required to bat and take England home and again he didn’t...
 
Interesting analysis, that is some pretty compelling evidence you put together. Be interesting, if you submitted it to CricInfo.
 
I think its stupid to define oneplayer as the 'finnisher;. Because if he goes out then it puts this negative thing in the team that our finishers gone, who is going to finish for us now?

England should just let him become a good player, winning games will come automatically.
 
Every English player is 'overrated' due to the over active media and hyperbolic journalism. Morgan is a good player who's better in chases and Pakistan would have been wary of him until Akhtar got the job done.
 
At the moment Mike Hussey is probably one of the best finishers but Bevan probably tops the list.
 
Inzi is probably the best finisher we have ever had, don't know much about Miandad so can't comment
 
I like this guy.
He is really very talented.:)

By the way, he averages higher when chasing totals.
When he first came on,he certainly seemed like a real finisher of the game to me.Especially in T20s.

Guess he should be sent higher up the order in ODIs if he cant prove himself.
 
Every "English" player is 'overrated' due to the over active media and hyperbolic journalism. Morgan is a good player who's better in chases and Pakistan would have been wary of him until Akhtar got the job done.

Fixed LOL
 
^lol.

I think he's more of a finisher in the T20s though, he's only been given the label in ODIs since his Aus century. Would be interesting to see a similar breakdown of his T20I chasing record.
 
the thing he does good,that he plays his shot from the right go.
 
Awesome job on the analysis, i dont like the finisher hype around him..


But, Put it this way; If he is on the crease in the last overs of the chase, I dont feel comfortable and pray for him to get out!....lol
 
michael atherton seems to think he has improved English chances of a victory. When he was at the crease he said pre morgan 8/10 england would lose with morgan 6/10 england would win. Your stats clearly disprove that
 
To be honest while he was at the crease I was wary as he does seem not to be overwhelmed by the situation and does continue to play his shots so although the stats say otherwise he really is a key player to get out as far as I am concerned.
 
they showed morgans average when england were chasing as 50+ whilst its in the 20s in 1st innings.

if anything...he's a finisher.
 
Nice work shaykh.

I suspect the tag is just a case of him batting better (statistically anyway) when chasing a total, and also a spillover from T20 (5 of 8 T20 innings when batting 2nd have been not outs).

But he'll need to do a lot better i.e. actually stay there till the end of a chase, to fully earn that label.
 
interesting idea.

but rather than say he is overrated, I would say that our bowling is just that damn good.
 
He's a good T20 finisher.

ODI or Tests he is still a little uncertain in his approach.
 
Basically this is too small a sample of whether or not Morgan is a good finisher, the English have clearly hyped him to be the next Messiah of English cricket

But having said this, in a span of a year, Morgan has already won his side about 3-4 ODIs and 3-4 T20s while chasing so its not a bad effort
 
He's not much of a reliable finisher - but he has done it a few times. Eoin Morgan is a decent batsman, though.

I think Dhoni is the finest finisher in the game. Soaks up pressure well.

Sadly, he's done it against Pakistan a few times too.
 
Heres how he has done in T20 Internationals...Its pretty good on Morgans part...
Of his 14 ODI’s England have chased 8 times...
Hes pretty good batting both first and second...
1st - 221 runs at 44.2 (6 innings)
2nd - 201 runs at 67.0 (8 innings)

Interestingly 2 games he has finished off...taken England from a difficult position and won have both come against us...his other performance has come up against New Zealand...incredibly 5/8 times he has ended up not out chasing...

One game was against the Saffas in an impossible situation..another where we dismissed him cheaply and another where Bresnan took England home against NZ...He hasnt other than the 3 occasions mentioned needed to do much finishing off due to England being a top T20 outfit...

Here are his ODI stats btw in terms of batting 1st and 2nd...

1st - 255 runs at 28.33 (10 innings)
2nd - 692 runs at 49.43 (21 innings)

So he does clearly prefer chasing a target than setting one...he just doesnt step over the finish line often enough as he would like...




South Africa 2nd T20I - 10
Chasing a ridiculous 242 Morgan arrived with England 117/3 off 15 overs...you cant really blame him for not getting to 242...


Pakistan 1st T20I - 67*
A game we all remember...top performance...at 18/3 chasing 130 Morgan came in and hit 67 off just 51 deliveries and finished us off...


Pakistan World T20 – 5
Came in at 120/3 and was dismissed at 140/5...didnt finish off the game but KP did chasing 151...


New Zealand World T20 – 40
Came in at 60/3...good innings but was dismissed just before the finish line on 142/6 chasing 152 with 2 overs remaining...Bresnan finished the game off with a brilliant 23 from 11...if anything Bresnan seems to perform when England chase down a target...


Sri Lanka World T20 Semi Final – 2*
Came at 113/3 with KP in full flow...KP took them from 113 to 132 in quick time...


Australia T20 Final – 15*
Came in at 121/3 with 27 needed off 6 overs...England eased home...


Pakistan 1st T20I – 38*
This was a game he finished...he arrived with England at 55/3 and later 62/5 chasing 127 and Morgan and Yardy got there with 3 overs to spare...


Pakistan 2nd T20I – 18*
Theres not much to comment on regarding this game...he made 18 in nothing game where we made 89...he arrived at 57/3 with 47 needed off the next 10.3 overs and eased England home...
 
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He is still young and is a huge talent. His reverse sweep is one of the best I've ever seen.

I don't think he is overrated at all.
 
brilliant!! outstanding!! magnificient! as chishti mujahid would say.
 
Thread is about him being good in finishing the job in run chases in ODIs, not about his general batting ability.

Think before you type.
 
This isnt to say he isnt a good batsman in this format but again he lost his wicket at the wrong time...

What should have been a comfortable win ended up being a last ball with the final wicket pair...

The guy is better chasing a total but he isnt a finisher...
 
This isnt to say he isnt a good batsman in this format but again he lost his wicket at the wrong time...

What should have been a comfortable win ended up being a last ball with the final wicket pair...

The guy is better chasing a total but he isnt a finisher...

This post confirms my first suspicion upon entering this thread - that you have to be an England fan to understand how important Morgs is to our LOI team.

Even if he is just going to contribute 35 off 28 or a run a ball 50 somewhere in the chase before he gets out, that is still miles better than any middle-order batsman could reliably do for us in the past. We have lost dozens of similar LOI games to this when Morgs has not been playing - in the old days, today's game would have been all over with the Pietersen dismissal.

You say he blew the finish today, but I could just as easily say that he set up the win, by stabilising the middle of the innings, and consistently reaching the boundary rope when the field restrictions were lifted. Do you think England could have won with Collingwood, Wright and Bresnan managing the middle overs? Morgs has made a huge difference to our chances of winning in LOIs, particularly batting second, and any England fan will confirm this to you.

Top player.

And Irish.
 
This post confirms my first suspicion upon entering this thread - that you have to be an England fan to understand how important Morgs is to our LOI team.

Even if he is just going to contribute 35 off 28 or a run a ball 50 somewhere in the chase before he gets out, that is still miles better than any middle-order batsman could reliably do for us in the past. We have lost dozens of similar LOI games to this when Morgs has not been playing - in the old days, today's game would have been all over with the Pietersen dismissal.

You say he blew the finish today, but I could just as easily say that he set up the win, by stabilising the middle of the innings, and consistently reaching the boundary rope when the field restrictions were lifted. Do you think England could have won with Collingwood, Wright and Bresnan managing the middle overs? Morgs has made a huge difference to our chances of winning in LOIs, particularly batting second, and any England fan will confirm this to you.

Top player.

And Irish.


I dont dispute the fact that his innings today for instance was crucial as have been others where he hasnt been there at the end...without him I agree England would have lost...

I also appreciate that he generally will prevent a collapse with his contributions...

However the likes of Nasser Hussain market him as a finisher...he discussed it today too where he mentioned that Pakistan have Razzaq, India Dhoni and England have Morgan...

For me hes a brilliant T20 player and a promising ODI player but its incorrect to market him as a finisher...hes just a really good batsman...
 
This post confirms my first suspicion upon entering this thread - that you have to be an England fan to understand how important Morgs is to our LOI team.

Even if he is just going to contribute 35 off 28 or a run a ball 50 somewhere in the chase before he gets out, that is still miles better than any middle-order batsman could reliably do for us in the past. We have lost dozens of similar LOI games to this when Morgs has not been playing - in the old days, today's game would have been all over with the Pietersen dismissal.

You say he blew the finish today, but I could just as easily say that he set up the win, by stabilising the middle of the innings, and consistently reaching the boundary rope when the field restrictions were lifted. Do you think England could have won with Collingwood, Wright and Bresnan managing the middle overs? Morgs has made a huge difference to our chances of winning in LOIs, particularly batting second, and any England fan will confirm this to you.

Top player.

And Irish.

I'm a british pakistani fan but I don't support england at all in cricket. In fact, ever since England have become a strong side i've been supporting the opposition.

But for me, Morgan is why England have been so successful in limited overs in recent times. I think he's the most important batsman England have in LOI because as the opposition, until you have him out, you're never ahead in the game. I went to see the England-Pakistan 2nd odi at leeds and even after putting on 290 and having england at 250 odd for 5 or 6 I think, I knew England were still in it because of Morgan...and unfortunately I was right. He stayed there with Wright and then Bresnan till only 15 were required and then it was easy for england.

He's done that again today. Like whippy, nasser made the point that England would have collapsed after being 104-5 in the old days without Morgan, and who better to know than nasser hussain himself.

Lastly, even stats are on his side, with an average of 50 at a strike rate of 130+, that's consistency at its best. I'm sure that in 2nd innings his stats are even better. What a player!
 
I would say that he is a top class batsman who is more than capable of finishing an LOI innings, and more than capable of playing many other roles as well. The best things about Morgs are his versatility, his timing, and his astounding range of shots. I have no doubt that he will prove to be test-class in the future.

He was batting 5 today, which is realistically too high if you're expecting him to finish. What should have happened is that Lumb should have opened, Bell should have batted 5 and Morgs should have batted 6, which is his best position when it comes to both building an innings and finishing the chase. Even then, both Bell and Morgs did a good job. Just try telling this to England, who continue with their Luke Wright fixation.
 
This post confirms my first suspicion upon entering this thread - that you have to be an England fan to understand how important Morgs is to our LOI team.

Even if he is just going to contribute 35 off 28 or a run a ball 50 somewhere in the chase before he gets out, that is still miles better than any middle-order batsman could reliably do for us in the past. We have lost dozens of similar LOI games to this when Morgs has not been playing - in the old days, today's game would have been all over with the Pietersen dismissal.

You say he blew the finish today, but I could just as easily say that he set up the win, by stabilising the middle of the innings, and consistently reaching the boundary rope when the field restrictions were lifted. Do you think England could have won with Collingwood, Wright and Bresnan managing the middle overs? Morgs has made a huge difference to our chances of winning in LOIs, particularly batting second, and any England fan will confirm this to you.

Top player.

And Irish.
Disagree, not just England fans understand. I think everyone in world cricket knows how important Morgan's wicket is in T20s and increasingly in ODIs, whether that opposition players or supporters.
 
Morgans has done well in ODIs and T20s and i see no reason why he cant perform the sort of roles Fairborther and Graham thorpe have been produced for England in the past.
 
Every English player is 'overrated' due to the over active media and hyperbolic journalism. Morgan is a good player who's better in chases and Pakistan would have been wary of him until Akhtar got the job done.
This.

Yes he's a good finisher but England's press is hyperbolic and has stone-carved "typecasting" for every player...respect to Flower and Strauss for not falling into the trap
 
This post confirms my first suspicion upon entering this thread - that you have to be an England fan to understand how important Morgs is to our LOI team.

Even if he is just going to contribute 35 off 28 or a run a ball 50 somewhere in the chase before he gets out, that is still miles better than any middle-order batsman could reliably do for us in the past. We have lost dozens of similar LOI games to this when Morgs has not been playing - in the old days, today's game would have been all over with the Pietersen dismissal.

You say he blew the finish today, but I could just as easily say that he set up the win, by stabilising the middle of the innings, and consistently reaching the boundary rope when the field restrictions were lifted. Do you think England could have won with Collingwood, Wright and Bresnan managing the middle overs? Morgs has made a huge difference to our chances of winning in LOIs, particularly batting second, and any England fan will confirm this to you.

Top player.

And Irish.
sorry but in the past Collingwood, Fairbrother, Thorpe, Hollioake etc have all done the same thing...yes he's skilled but atm a bit overrated by the typically type-casting-happy press
 
Why are England winning practically every match these days then, when they never used to win any matches?
 
Why are England winning practically every match these days then, when they never used to win any matches?
Because they're a good team unit. I'm not criticizing Morgan here--he himself is a very, very special talent and a key asset--but "lack of finishing power" wasn't what hurt them before, it was general disinterest towards the one-day game, assuming it was hit-and-giggle and didn't deserve players of proper temperament and calibre

Btw I'm fast starting to think England will win this WC, and I seriously wouldn't mind if they did. I really like their current setup
 
Morgan's range of strokes is astonishing

As a spinner, you just don't know where to bowl to him and what field to set

He can hit over midwicket, can play the sweep, hits brilliant inside out, and then theres the reverse and paddle as well, in fact, apart from hitting it straight over the head, he can play every other stroke to the spinner with precision.
 
Have never seen it before. It's very clever - Morgan must have some amazingly flexible wrists to get away with these kind of shots.
 
That guy has some serious talent. Seeing the ball clearly then having the reflexes to change the shot mid-way and being so innovative while doing so, requires a certain level of talent.
 
Why can't a [Pakistani play that shot, or Misbh perfect this sweep he always gets out guy needs lessons from Morong
 
Does anyone here know that this guy puts hours of practice in every day on this particular shot? He does so. And one more point, If anyone remembers Andy flower from his playing days, He was a seriously good player of Sweep shot. No wonder it has helped the vowel man (EOIN) mastering this shot.
 
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