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The fly KAMI in thread....

Can't Believe your Still supporting him..even after his epic failure in Both Bat and with Gloves after his comeback series against India..... Pathetic scores all those games ..and just one fluke ining of 48.. Still Cant Believe your justification for Him......:facepalm:
 
Can't Believe your Still supporting him..even after his epic failure in Both Bat and with Gloves after his comeback series against India..... Pathetic scores all those games ..and just one fluke ining of 48.. Still Cant Believe your justification for Him......:facepalm:

Who's the alternatives?

Shakil?
 
Ugh, missed an Amla stumping. Cant collect the ball even if his life depended on it
 
Did u see how high it bounced. ..

He missed that catch as well. .. He should have dived to where the first slip would have been
 
they just showed the video of the missed catch and 4th odi catch of amla.

pretty much same place, and that time we had slips!

why on earth would you not even try as a keeper. that makes no sense. i smell something really really fishy here....

folks missing catches....

is just cause umar akmal not picked

is it beyond that, people dont want misbah as captain??
 
^^

Commentators are so right about him not diving to his right , the loser didn't even try to catch the ball
 
very difficult chance missed off afridi too now....perhaps something dhoni or sanga may have got a hand to or stopped the boundary at least by having pads in right spot.
 
he is not keeper ... just look at him how lazy he is .. plus his body lol its too fat
he cant dive .. he is scared he might get hurted
 
What's his net worth per games? About 5 runs and a couple of catches?

Terrible player. As Chappell said, he shouldn't be the WK even if he bats like Bradman, such are the amount of wicket/runs he costs the team in the field.
 
What's his net worth per games? About 5 runs and a couple of catches?

Terrible player. As Chappell said, he shouldn't be the WK even if he bats like Bradman, such are the amount of wicket/runs he costs the team in the field.

More than anyone else we've tried. ... Thats enough for now...

Till we can find someone better
 
I would pick anyone who can grab all the chances and score 10 runs in every 5 innings over this hack.
 
More than anyone else we've tried. ... Thats enough for now...

Till we can find someone better
You're kidding right? If you followed Kamran's early career you'd know the irony in this, it took the guy around 3 years and about 20 ODIs to make his first substantial score (hundred Vs WI on Aus tour 05) and even then he didn't set the world alight with bat/gloves until England visited in the winter after the Ashes. In the times he was dropped, Pakistan continued to select the finished Moin Khan to the point where he was a shadow of his former self.

Pakistan's domestic structure sucks, the players learn on the job in internationals. It's evident that Kamran is not good enough - he's quite possibly the worst keeper batsman going around. Invest in someone, anyone, young and give them a run. It's time to move on from this serial match loser.
 
You're kidding right? If you followed Kamran's early career you'd know the irony in this, it took the guy around 3 years and about 20 ODIs to make his first substantial score (hundred Vs WI on Aus tour 05) and even then he didn't set the world alight with bat/gloves until England visited in the winter after the Ashes. In the times he was dropped, Pakistan continued to select the finished Moin Khan to the point where he was a shadow of his former self.

Pakistan's domestic structure sucks, the players learn on the job in internationals. It's evident that Kamran is not good enough - he's quite possibly the worst keeper batsman going around. Invest in someone, anyone, young and give them a run. It's time to move on from this serial match loser.

This is exactly what I don't get.

If Kami can get an extended run of 100's of matches to prove his worth,

Why do the new wicketkeeprs just get one game or two games to fire?

I think Mr Khan Ji secretly likes the attitude of Akmal bros. That must be it.
 
You're kidding right? If you followed Kamran's early career you'd know the irony in this, it took the guy around 3 years and about 20 ODIs to make his first substantial score (hundred Vs WI on Aus tour 05) and even then he didn't set the world alight with bat/gloves until England visited in the winter after the Ashes. In the times he was dropped, Pakistan continued to select the finished Moin Khan to the point where he was a shadow of his former self.

Pakistan's domestic structure sucks, the players learn on the job in internationals. It's evident that Kamran is not good enough - he's quite possibly the worst keeper batsman going around. Invest in someone, anyone, young and give them a run. It's time to move on from this serial match loser.

Has anyone even shown any semblance of potential?

I know it's difficult for pak newbies and they have to learn on the job. ...

But you can't change all the players at once.

A few at a time. ...



For now I would replace Farhat Malik Younis

Next batch includes Kami and Afridi.
 
The point is neither did Akmal early on - just like nobody guessed he'd become such a woeful keeper when he was on fire in 05. Pick someone and give them time, this is what England did with Prior who dropped plenty previously and has now become very safe (tests).

Malik is performing better than Akmal - Kamran was a flop in India, has been horrific here. Malik has had innings to his name on both of the 2 last tours, he'll be retained. Farhat and Younis, yes - Farhat scored a 90 but it's pathetic that a youngster with 2 hundreds on his last tour got kicked out.
 
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This is exactly what I don't get.

If Kami can get an extended run of 100's of matches to prove his worth,

Why do the new wicketkeeprs just get one game or two games to fire?

I think Mr Khan Ji secretly likes the attitude of Akmal bros. That must be it.

I like Umar Akmal...

I don't particularly rate Kami... (but no real alternatives)

People need to earn the right to play for Pak.... They need to show something. ... show why they deserve a chance. ... Not "hope"

The only keeper that has earnt a right to be tested is Sarfraz. ...

Whether he can succeed I have my doubts but he deserves to have a good long run.

That's why i would play him in tests. And if he gets over his fear of the ball while batting I would look to bring him in on LOIs as well....
 
The point is neither did Akmal early on - just like nobody guessed he'd become such a woeful keeper when he was on fire in 05. Pick someone and give them time, this is what England did with Prior who dropped plenty previously and has now become very safe (tests).

Malik is performing better than Akmal - Kamran was a flop in India, has been horrific here. Malik has had innings to his name on both of the 2 last tours, he'll be retained. Farhat and Younis, yes - Farhat scored a 90 but it's pathetic that a youngster with 2 hundreds on his last tour got kicked out.

Akmal showed potential. ... when he was played and before.

Who are your candidates for "testing"?


Malik is past it. ... ask w65 and he wont hesitate to give you some stats. .. :)


Players in the batting slots need to aim for averages over 40.

If they average in the early 30s after thousands of games. ... Time to give Harris and Co a chance.
 
Kamran Akmal has lost more games single handedly than anyone else in the history of the sport. This is by no means an exaggeration or inaccurate statement.
 
Fly kami in and ONLY kami in... That way no matter how he performs Kamis place will be secure
 
Akmal showed potential. ... when he was played and before.

Who are your candidates for "testing"?


Malik is past it. ... ask w65 and he wont hesitate to give you some stats. .. :)


Players in the batting slots need to aim for averages over 40.

If they average in the early 30s after thousands of games. ... Time to give Harris and Co a chance.
Anyone apart from Kamran is a candidate. None of the others are established TTFs yet, whoever heads the form/run scoring tables after the next week or so of domestics should slot in.

I agree with your reasoning on this and I don't want Malik to be a long-time stay but it's not to do with him being past it or not. The reality of the situation is he won't be dropped on the back of his last two tours. Kamran? Doesn't deserve to be so lucky, drops catch after catch after thousands of games whilst being a mediocre bat. Out you go.
 
Im not sure what is more ridiculous and mind boggling. Khan ji supporting Kamran or SoSami supporting Sami.
 
Anyone apart from Kamran is a candidate. None of the others are established TTFs yet, whoever heads the form/run scoring tables after the next week or so of domestics should slot in.

I agree with your reasoning on this and I don't want Malik to be a long-time stay but it's not to do with him being past it or not. The reality of the situation is he won't be dropped on the back of his last two tours. Kamran? Doesn't deserve to be so lucky, drops catch after catch after thousands of games whilst being a mediocre bat. Out you go.

I have never bought the anyone for Kami argument. ...

Its got to be someone who shows some potential.

I hate merry go rounds....
 
It's not a merry go round, I said I want a new keeper in ODIs to be given an extended run, and it is someone who shows potential - I'm asking for the form man of the current season.

You don't buy the anyone for argument because you're blinded by your fanboyism.
 
Kamran Akmal should be made the captain in odi's and the vice captain in tests.
 
It's not a merry go round, I said I want a new keeper in ODIs to be given an extended run, and it is someone who shows potential - I'm asking for the form man of the current season.

You don't buy the anyone for argument because you're blinded by your fanboyism.

Domestic form men. ... rarely succeed internationally. ...

Especially batting wise
 
Akmal showed potential. ... when he was played and before.

Who are your candidates for "testing"?


Malik is past it. ... ask w65 and he wont hesitate to give you some stats. .. :)


Players in the batting slots need to aim for averages over 40.

If they average in the early 30s after thousands of games. ... Time to give Harris and Co a chance.

Yup.. thatz why we should drop :yk :afridi :kami :farhat :misbah.... Crap Batsmen..

misbah should be dropped due to his defensive mentality in the Field and Blocking all deliveries hence increase pressure in the Team when batting.. and Also if He is There Harris and Co.. is never gonna get any chance ..
 
Yup.. thatz why we should drop :yk :afridi :kami :farhat :misbah.... Crap Batsmen..

misbah should be dropped due to his defensive mentality in the Field and Blocking all deliveries hence increase pressure in the Team when batting.. and Also if He is There Harris and Co.. is never gonna get any chance ..

Cant drop everyone at the same time..... :)
 
I predicted he'll score a match winning knock in a very crunch game and it was a match winning kind of a knock but :yk dropped AB who was the only hurdle in our win so in a way another of my prediction came true...a Match winner will always be a match winner:afridi
 
We need a wicket keeper who can bat. Full stop.

Right now Kami seems to be our best option in this regard unless there is another good keeper batsman in Pakistan that Im unaware of.

Played 2 decent knocks this series.

Just needs to work on his keeping. It was kind of weird seeing our keeper as our top scorer in the last game. We sure as hell arent going to see that with the likes of Sarfaraz Ahmed.
 
Domestic form men. ... rarely succeed internationally. ...

Especially batting wise

So essentially you're saying it's not worth the gamble and you'd retain a keeper who can't even keep instead? How much longer before you make the bold decision to try a new keeper, which will naturally have to happen eventually? 5 more years? 10?
 
So essentially you're saying it's not worth the gamble and you'd retain a keeper who can't even keep instead? How much longer before you make the bold decision to try a new keeper, which will naturally have to happen eventually? 5 more years? 10?

Yes.

Not until we see someone that has potential and shows it.

Also we cant replace too many people at the same time.

We need the replacements for

:farhat
:yk
:malik

to settle in first. ...

Kami and Afridi are part of phase 2. In the mean time we need to look out for the pretenders making a case to be selected.
 
collectively, we all owe an apology to our youngsters finding their feet in Pakistan cricket team. This thread is a proof of how so called 'seniors' are enjoying a free ride despite of continuous failures. Whereas their replacement are always under scanner, slightest mistakes are highlighted which eventually lead to the axe. Jamshed and Umar Akmal are dropped after 3-4 bad games while Younus, Malik & Afridi remain untouchable. Hell, people are actually calling it a successful tour for Kamran which would mean he'll walk into our test team now which nothing but disastrous.

Little do they now that youngsters, infact deserve a longer rope and not the other way around. I'm sure his fanboys have forgetten Kamran himself was a nobody in his first 2-3 years of int'l cricket and it was only at the tour of Australia 2004-05 where he started to perform with the bat. They continue to laugh about Sarfraz but dont realize they are only laughing at themselves because Sarfraz has infact done better than what Kamran did on his first tour to SA.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...ies=7393;team=7;template=results;type=batting

India have thrown away the dead wood, its time we do the same and arrest the slide of our one-day team !
 

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Not until we see someone that has potential and shows it.

So you say you don't want to drop Akmal, you also say that domestic cricket rarely succeed and now you're saying you wait until you see someone that 'has potential and shows it'. Let's say we're at your 'phase 2' now, how exactly do you plan to give a new WK a chance to show 'potential' and 'show' it?
 
collectively, we all owe an apology to our youngsters finding their feet in Pakistan cricket team. This thread is a proof of how so called 'seniors' are enjoying a free ride despite of continuous failures. Whereas their replacement are always under scanner, slightest mistakes are highlighted which eventually lead to the axe. Jamshed and Umar Akmal are dropped after 3-4 bad games while Younus, Malik & Afridi remain untouchable. Hell, people are actually calling it a successful tour for Kamran which would mean he'll walk into our test team now which nothing but disastrous.

Little do they now that youngsters, infact deserve a longer rope and not the other way around. I'm sure his fanboys have forgetten Kamran himself was a nobody in his first 2-3 years of int'l cricket and it was only at the tour of Australia 2004-05 where he started to perform with the bat. They continue to laugh about Sarfraz but dont realize they are only laughing at themselves because Sarfraz has infact done better than what Kamran did on his first tour to SA.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...ies=7393;team=7;template=results;type=batting

India have thrown away the dead wood, its time we do the same and arrest the slide of our one-day team !

Dead wood needs to be replaced in a controlled way.

:farhat
:yk
:malik

First....

Then kami and afridi.


The youngsters replacing those 3 then need long ropes...

Umar akmal
Jamshed
And one of Harris amin fawad shafiq shehzad
 
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funny you say Malik first who atleast, has done something on this tour. Two important innings in two run chases !
 
Even Farhat has a 91. Both will retain their spots on merit ahead of Akmal (even though he'll also probably be retained anyway).
 
So you say you don't want to drop Akmal, you also say that domestic cricket rarely succeed and now you're saying you wait until you see someone that 'has potential and shows it'. Let's say we're at your 'phase 2' now, how exactly do you plan to give a new WK a chance to show 'potential' and 'show' it?

Ideally in the A team...

Sarfraz is playing for the test team... lets see how he develops. I am watching him to see if he loses his fear of the ball. He is the most deserving at the mo.
 
Ideally in the A team...
Ideally but not realistically. The A team hardly plays - no international teams touring Pakistan, very few A team games in the UAE and very few A team tours.

MR__KHAN__JI said:
Sarfraz is playing for the test team... lets see how he develops. I am watching him to see if he loses his fear of the ball. He is the most deserving at the mo.
You're making it sound like LOIs are the finishing school of test cricket. I personally won't care if they have separate keepers in the two formats.
 
funny you say Malik first who atleast, has done something on this tour. Two important innings in two run chases !

That role needs a new batsman. ... malik is a TTF.

There are plenty replacements available that deserve an opportunity.


His "performances" moved him up 4 places in the rankings to 77.
 
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Ideally but not realistically. The A team hardly plays - no international teams touring Pakistan, very few A team games in the UAE and very few A team tours.


You're making it sound like LOIs are the finishing school of test cricket. I personally won't care if they have separate keepers in the two formats.

Re A team.... ideally. ..

I am talking ideally because in the fan world. . We have carte blanche to do what we want.


Its not the case of finishing schools...

Its a case of "primary strengths"....

Each is playing in their preferred format.
 
This thread says otherwise.

If u think so... :)

We cant replace all players at once...

Id rather replace the ones that have "named and sufficiently progressed" replacements....

Rather than just use blind hate as a guide.
 

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Re A team.... ideally. ..

I am talking ideally because in the fan world. . We have carte blanche to do what we want.

So you're basically admitting to living in a fantasy? The fact is there is very little Pak A cricket and you've already said you'd replace Kamran in this supposed 'phase 2' so tell me the alternative as to how you will realistically accommodate another keeper to 'show and prove' their potential?

MR__KHAN__JI said:
Its a case of "primary strengths"....

Each is playing in their preferred format.
Difference is Kamran is a TTF. btw, his 'primary strength' is also meant to be catching and stumping.
 
Apart from that one decent game behind the stumps in South Africa, he looked in the worst wicket-keeping form I've ever seen him in and there are a lot of lows to choose from.

Who would I pick as an alternative? Anyone. Rashid Latif would be ahead of Kamran in my current pecking order. Ignoring any insinuations of sinister goings on, based on his performance, The Sydney Test should have been his last.

In all my time watching cricket, Kamran Akmal has done more damage to Pakistan cricket than anyone who has taken the field. His drops have cost not only the odd Test match, but whole Test and ODI series, his drops have ended bowling careers.

Adnan is competent enough with the bat, if not outstanding. He should play until someone like Rizwan is ready. Or just play Rizwan. Play me. I've never kept before but I can't be any worse.
 
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Id rather replace the ones that have "named and sufficiently progressed" replacements....

Rather than just use blind hate as a guide.
What? :))

You're getting tied up in your own arguments.

First off, I agree with Farhat out, Jamshed in - and that is also consistent with your shown potential argument (hundreds in India). However, Farhat will be retained for his 90 in SA.

Also agree with U Akmal (experienced in internationals now) for Younis, who is of very little worth in ODIs.


You say you will replace Malik potentially with Harris and Amin.
You say you won't replace K Akmal because domestic stats don't convince you and you're looking for A team performances.

Harris hasn't played, his List A average is 32 in Pakistan, Amin has played for the A team and his last scores against Afghanistan were 0 and 12.

Why the double standards? Why the special treatment for Kamran and not Malik?
 
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So you're basically admitting to living in a fantasy? The fact is there is very little Pak A cricket and you've already said you'd replace Kamran in this supposed 'phase 2' so tell me the alternative as to how you will realistically accommodate another keeper to 'show and prove' their potential?


Difference is Kamran is a TTF. btw, his 'primary strength' is also meant to be catching and stumping.

Ive already explained about Sarfraz.

And if that doesnt work... ill tell you when I see someone next ready.

So far the only one I see is Sarfraz.
 
What? :))

You're getting tied up in your own arguments.

First off, I agree with Farhat out, Jamshed in - and that is also consistent with your shown potential argument (hundreds in India). However, Farhat will be retained for his 90 in SA.

Also agree with U Akmal (experienced in internationals now) for Younis, who is of very little worth in ODIs.


You say you will replace Malik potentially with Harris and Amin.
You say you won't replace K Akmal because domestic stats don't convince you and you're looking for A team performances.

Harris hasn't played, his List A average is 32 in Pakistan, Amin has played for the A team and his last scores against Afghanistan were 0 and 12.

Why the double standards? Why the special treatment for Kamran and not Malik?

Im not getting tied at all.

I have jamshed replacing farhat
I have umar akmal replacing yk
I have one of the bunch I mentioned replacing malik.

Of these. .. shafiq has shown plenty of potential in test cricket.
Shahzad has 2 odi centuries. ..
Fawad has a domestic average of 60 odd. ..
Haris and amin I know less about... im judging those by the hype. .. apparently they are even better than the ones ive mentioned above!!!!
 
And if that doesnt work... ill tell you when I see someone next ready.

So far the only one I see is Sarfraz.

That's why I asked this -

The fact is there is very little Pak A cricket and you've already said you'd replace Kamran in this supposed 'phase 2' so tell me the alternative as to how you will realistically accommodate another keeper to 'show and prove' their potential?

If you want to overlook domestic performances just because they don't meet your apparent standards and you know that the A teams get very little exposure, how are you being fair to other prospective WKs and see if they deserve selection?
 
That's why I asked this -

The fact is there is very little Pak A cricket and you've already said you'd replace Kamran in this supposed 'phase 2' so tell me the alternative as to how you will realistically accommodate another keeper to 'show and prove' their potential?

If you want to overlook domestic performances just because they don't meet your apparent standards and you know that the A teams get very little exposure, how are you being fair to other prospective WKs and see if they deserve selection?

Ideally we would have A - Cricket. ...

Without it the job is tougher and more risky. ...

If it's more risky. .. then you apply more caution. ..

If you apply more caution... You wait till someone puts their head and shoulders well ahead of the others. ...
 
I have one of the bunch I mentioned replacing malik.

Of these. .. shafiq has shown plenty of potential in test cricket.
Shahzad has 2 odi centuries. ..
Fawad has a domestic average of 60 odd. ..
Haris and amin I know less about... im judging those by the hype. .. apparently they are even better than the ones ive mentioned above!!!!

Malik replacements: 'Judging those by hype', 'domestic average'
Kamran replacements: 'must show and prove potential', 'domestic form men rarely succeed in internationals'



Why the double standards?
 
Apart from that one decent game behind the stumps in South Africa, he looked in the worst wicket-keeping form I've ever seen him in and there are a lot of lows to choose from.

Who would I pick as an alternative? Anyone. Rashid Latif would be ahead of Kamran in my current pecking order. Ignoring any insinuations of sinister goings on, based on his performance, The Sydney Test should have been his last.

In all my time watching cricket, Kamran Akmal has done more damage to Pakistan cricket than anyone who has taken the field. His drops have cost not only the odd Test match, but whole Test and ODI series, his drops have ended bowling careers.

Adnan is competent enough with the bat, if not outstanding. He should play until someone like Rizwan is ready. Or just play Rizwan. Play me. I've never kept before but I can't be any worse.

We've tried that approach
.....

Shakil
Salman
Adnan
Zoni

Etc etc. ...

Like I said. .. He needs replacing definitely. ... but in phase 2...

There's more sense in phase 1 because we have replacements that are "more likely" to do better than the incumbent...
 
Ideally we would have A - Cricket. ...

Without it the job is tougher and more risky. ...

If it's more risky. .. then you apply more caution. ..

If you apply more caution... You wait till someone puts their head and shoulders well ahead of the others. ...

Are you going to skirt the question all day?

You've stated the utopian scenario several times already, I'm asking you for your alternative method as to HOW you will allow fringe keepers to show you their worth/potential.
 
Are you going to skirt the question all day?

You've stated the utopian scenario several times already, I'm asking you for your alternative method as to HOW you will allow fringe keepers to show you their worth/potential.

Ive already said. ...

Someone that shows domestically they are head and shoulders above others. .. Over a consistent period of time. ...

Sarfraz has done that. ... hence why I have him on my test side.
 
Malik replacements: 'Judging those by hype', 'domestic average'
Kamran replacements: 'must show and prove potential', 'domestic form men rarely succeed in internationals'



Why the double standards?

The hyped players sit below the ones I mentioned above. ...

But the hype is really really loud.... Its almost at bevan and lara levels of hype. ...


For clarity. ..

Without A team... You only have domestics. ..

Domestics is risky. ... Its harder to separate the real gems. ...

So you have to rely on people really standing out....

Even then there's no guarantee. ... 1 out of many (say 5 though the reality is much higher) will succeed. ... so if no one is showing real potential that 1 out of 5 will become 1 out of 10.

The batting replacements are more likely to succeed than the keeping replacements. ... (at the mo)
 
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Someone that shows domestically they are head and shoulders above others. .. Over a consistent period of time. ...
Define said consistent time period. Which year are you looking to replace Kamran Akmal by?

If the international keeper is a proven failure at his main role (catching the ball), it's clearly time to look elsewhere and you'll have to drop your standards down to a shorter bracket.
 
Define said consistent time period. Which year are you looking to replace Kamran Akmal by?

If the international keeper is a proven failure at his main role (catching the ball), it's clearly time to look elsewhere and you'll have to drop your standards down to a shorter bracket.

Sarfraz fits the bill for now. There's no one else...

And even he is scared of the cricket ball while batting.

Timeframe?

As soon as someone fits the bill. .. ie shows they are head and shoulders above others over a period of time .. (Sarfraz)
 
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The hyped players sit below the ones I mentioned above. ...

But the hype is really really loud.... Its almost at bevan and lara levels of hype. ...
No it isn't, and even then that shouldn't make it alright going by your Kamran Akmal reasoning, including your latest one. Like I said, Harris has a LA average of 32 and hasn't played for Pak A, Amin has failed recently for Pak A. If this was a keeper, your logic would have you use those arguments in favour of Kamran.


MR__KHAN__JI said:
The batting replacements are more likely to succeed than the keeping replacements. ... (at the mo)
Qualifiable? Malik doesn't drop catches and has decent performances on each of the last two tours, Kamran doesn't and of course has been shocking as always behind the stumps. There is far more margin for error a new WK to play with, even catching the ball is a head start for example.
 
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