The fly KAMI in thread....

[MR__KHAN__JI]

No it isn't, and even then that shouldn't make it alright going by your Kamran Akmal reasoning, including your latest one. Like I said, Harris has a LA average of 32 and hasn't played for Pak A, Amin has failed recently for Pak A. If this was a keeper, your logic would have you use those arguments in favour of Kamran.



Qualifiable? Malik has decent performances on each of the last two tours, Kamran doesn't, has been shocking as always behind the stumps. There is far more margin for error a new WK can play with, even catching the ball is a head start for example.

Harris and Amin are hype. ..

You can see what hype really is by looking at the "Great Pakistani Hype" thread. ...

And also the "Merry Go Round" thread as to what happens when you take the "hit and hope" approach. ...


Shafiq/Fawad/Shahzad at the very least are ready to be given a chance to replace Malik. ...

Even stretching to Harris and Amin if u believe the hype. ...

 

[Sledger]

Well you've included the names of those two, so that suggests you do believe the hype.

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Yes, what's this period of time according to you?

I dont want to give a fixed time. .. The amount of time varies according to a thousand other variables. ..

If Kami put on 20 kilos the time period might shorten.

The only thing that matters is that taking all things into account. .. Only Sarfraz is ready to be given a chance.

Even Adnan is a No one as far as I am concerned.

He only plays cos of the Akmal name. ...

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Well you've included the names of those two, so that suggests you do believe the hype.

Yes and No.

I personally don't. ... as I have never ever seen Harris bat. ... (and Amin only a couple times)

But the hype has been so so loud that I am taking the word of PP to a certain extent. .. in extending my list to show that there is a whole line of people queuing up to replace Malik. ..

 

[Sledger]

If Kami put on 20 kilos the time period might shorten

If he was still keeping properly it wouldn't really matter. The time period is shortened due to his iron gloves and inconsistent batting. I've suggested picking the player who finishes this season as the best keeper batsman because Kamran must go immediately; that might not be ideal but I'd rather be proactive and not bury my head in the sand and wait for someone to bite. You could find yourself waiting a long time - Kamran's woeful performances means a slight gamble must be taken.

 

[Sledger]

Yes and No.

I personally don't. ... as I have never ever seen Harris bat. ... (and Amin only a couple times)

But the hype has been so so loud that I am taking the word of PP to a certain extent. .. in extending my list to show that there is a whole line of people queuing up to replace Malik. ..

That sounds like a clear no then, not a yes and no - seems you were extending the list for hyperbolic affect on the Malik side to make Akmal look better/in less urgent need of replacement.

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

If he was still keeping properly it wouldn't really matter. The time period is shortened due to his iron gloves and inconsistent batting. I've suggested picking the player who finishes this season as the best keeper batsman because Kamran must go immediately; that might not be ideal but I'd rather be proactive and not bury my head in the sand and wait for someone to bite. You could find yourself waiting a long time - Kamran's woeful performances means a slight gamble must be taken.

Happy 4 u 2 take that approach ...

Id rather take his inconsistency for a while until other slots solidify themselves and kami "replacements" grow up a bit.

Like I said we have the best of them playing test cricket .... lets see how he does against quality bowlers.

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

That sounds like a clear no then, not a yes and no - seems you were extending the list for hyperbolic affect on the Malik side to make Akmal look better/in less urgent need of replacement.

To an extent.

But you cant deny the hype levels are deafening. ..particularly with respect to Harris.

 

[Sledger]

He's been highly inconsistent since 2006, seems like you're willing to wait an eternity if you haven't woken up yet. Until retirement do us part?

 

[Sledger]

To an extent.

But you cant deny the hype levels are deafening. ..particularly with respect to Harris.

No more than any other young batsman on PP who has a few good performances.

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

No more than any other young batsman on PP who has a few good performances.

Really. .. ? I think he gets special mentions. ...

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

He's been highly inconsistent since 2006, seems like you're willing to wait an eternity if you haven't woken up yet. Until retirement do us part?

Not at all... until I have some confidence the replacement will do better....

Taking account that I can't change the whole side at once.

 

[Sledger]

Really. .. ? I think he gets special mentions. ...

Disagreed.

Not at all... until I have some confidence the replacement will do better....

Taking account that I can't change the whole side at once.

Changing the whole side isn't the principle issue - I agree you can't switch everyone in one go. However, you need to identify who's doing the most harm and Kamran's missed chances in nearly every game for the past 6+ years, especially a team who rely on bowling as much as Pakistan, are a crippling factor that needs to be treated ASAP.

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Disagreed.
Changing the whole side isn't the issue, you need to identify who's doing the most harm and Kamran's missed chances in nearly every game for the past 6+ years, especially a team who rely on bowling as much as Pakistan, are a crippling factor that needs to be treated ASAP.

Let's see how Sarfraz does then. ... If he performs... Even shows potential whilst facing these international bowlers....

Then I'll be calling him in to the ODI side. ... louder than anyone.

Its a balance between most harm and capability of the replacements...

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

People find it easy to look at the harm. ... but less easy to analyse capabilities of replacements...

Ie how likely are they to be better. ....?

Its easy to say "anyone".... "everyone"....

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Someone posted some innings stats for Kami between 02 and 04... And then dismissed the output. ..

I saw potential in those innings eg there were relatively frequent quick fire 20 odds. ..

And if memory serves me correctly. .. people being impressed with the approach he was taking.

 

[Sledger]

People find it easy to look at the harm. ... but less easy to analyse capabilities of replacements...

Ie how likely are they to be better. ....?

Its easy to say "anyone".... "everyone"....

Probably more likely than you think. Anyone who is a better keeper than Akmal is doing less harm and Kamran is one of the worst international keepers ever, if not the worst. The batting comes on with time and experience in the ODI environment, just like it did with him.

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Probably more likely than you think. Anyone who is a better keeper than Akmal is doing less harm and Kamran is one of the worst international keepers ever, if not the worst. The batting comes on with time and experience in the ODI environment, just like it did with him.

More likely than I think?

Tell me how many Pakistani keepers have averaged more than 27.... ever?

Forget keepers... lets talk batsman. ...

When was the last time we had a class LOI batsman?

 

[SwingNSeam]

r u trying to call kami a class batsman because he avgs 27? Who avgs even less in his recent tenure in the team?

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

r u trying to call kami a class batsman because he avgs 27? Who avgs even less in his recent tenure in the team?

When did I do that?

If it takes us so long to find a class batsman. .. then what hope do we have of finding a keeper that can average 30?


Hell our future captain thats blessed in all facets averages 27 with the bat!!!!

Hell he's our second best batsman in the current side! !!!

 

[Sledger]

More likely than I think?

Tell me how many Pakistani keepers have averaged more than 27.... ever?

Forget keepers... lets talk batsman. ...

When was the last time we had a class LOI batsman?

Kamran isn't playing solely as a batsman.

 

[SwingNSeam]

When did I do that?

There are two lines of discussion going on here if you have been following.

your questions indicate such.

Anyway, if we dont try a new young keeper how are we going to know? What did kamran do since his comeback in the india series till date?

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Kamran isn't playing solely as a batsman.

I know.... hence the pool of players that could replace him is so much smaller. ...

Hence its so difficult to find a decent replacement. ..

The phrase "Beggars can't be choosers" comes to mind.

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

your questions indicate such.

Anyway, if we dont try a new young keeper how are we going to know? What did kamran do since his comeback in the india series till date?

Like I said....

The "lucky dip" method. ... Just results in "merry go rounds"...

And then kami coming back and it takes him some games to get his form back. ..

So we end up with the worst of both worlds. ...


Much much better to take a sensible approach. ..

Identify the best. . . Ease then in....

Sarfraz's the best by a distance. .... He's in the test team. .. lets see how he does.

I know it feels the wrong way round. ... but Kami is less useful in tests and Sarfraz will be under less pressure in tests. .. so it makes sense.

It also makes more sense because we have other TTFs in the LOI side with potentially good replacements who can bed-in in the mean time so when Sarfraz comes in. .. He's under less pressure as part of a small newbie group as opposed to a large one.

 

[SwingNSeam]

Or we can get a new keeper..who has been performing in the domestic games...and give them an extended run...even if its 1/3rd of the chances kamran got...at least they cant do worse than what he has been doing.

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Or we can get a new keeper..who has been performing in the domestic games...and give them an extended run...even if its 1/3rd of the chances kamran got...at least they cant do worse than what he has been doing.

They can do worse. ..

Shakil
Zoni
Salman

Etc etc etc. ..

Plus you need to look at the overall balance of TTF replacements...

Can't do them all at once.

 

[SwingNSeam]

You know a radical change wont be happening..if you dont give them a chance now..when will you?
Playing in different conditions..under immense pressures..will give them good exposure..and something to build on.

How can they do worse..if they manage to hold on to all the catche/not miss the stumpings/dont let the byes go and at least be behind the wickets to collect the throws?

Also, I am sure they will be out score him..its not a lot to do that u know?

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

People keep mentioning this mysterious keeper that's waiting in the wings.... lets hear some names and analysis.....?

I'm the most most pro Kami person here (If u can even call it pro Kami)... And I'm the only one thats come up with a name. ...

 

[SwingNSeam]

Jamal Anwar, Gulraiz Sadaf, and Mohammad Rizwan, Bismillah Khan.

 

[SwingNSeam]

There's even a thread on Mohd. rizwan:

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?t=169544

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

You know a radical change wont be happening..if you dont give them a chance now..when will you?
Playing in different conditions..under immense pressures..will give them good exposure..and something to build on.

How can they do worse..if they manage to hold on to all the catche/not miss the stumpings/dont let the byes go and at least be behind the wickets to collect the throws?

Also, I am sure they will be out score him..its not a lot to do that u know?

If it's that easy. ... Why do we have an atrocious historical record for even half decent batting players?

Every keeper we've tried hasn't been an ideal keeper. .... from even a keeping perspective.


I am giving Sarfraz a chance!!!!!. ... I'm desperate for him to succed so I can stop getting bashed for "supporting" Kami. ..

 

[Inziquicksingle]

Taufeeq Umar is a better option.

Can someone name any other cricketer who has lost as many matches single handedly for a team as Camy has for Pakistan?

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

There's even a thread on Mohd. rizwan:

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?t=169544

Right. .... so a thread means someone is worthy?

Let's hear some analysis of the player. ... Make the case. ... I'm listening.

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Taufeeq Umar is a better option.

Can someone name any other cricketer who has lost as many matches single handedly for a team as Camy has for Pakistan?

Let's try taufeeq.....as well. ... lets make the "lucky dip"... "merry go round" list longer.

 

[Inziquicksingle]

Right. .... so a thread means someone is worthy?

Let's hear some analysis of the player. ... Make the case. ... I'm listening.

He isn't Camy Akmal, case closed.

 

[SwingNSeam]

Right. .... so a thread means someone is worthy?

Let's hear some analysis of the player. ... Make the case. ... I'm listening.

lol weak comeback tbh. I listed 3-4 above that post. And if you open the post...there are stats inside..which was the reason I posted this here. Not because there is a thread on him lol.

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Jamal Anwar, Gulraiz Sadaf, and Mohammad Rizwan, Bismillah Khan.

Let's hear some analysis. ... lets hear why you think they will do better than the other replacements. ... Im waiting to be convinced. ..

I want to be convinced.

Lets hear some cricketing analysis. ..

 

[SwingNSeam]

1. they are good keepers, and not sloppy.
2. they can bat.

should be good enough of an analysis for anybody to at least try out keepers...if their gilly equivalent aint performing.

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

lol weak comeback tbh. I listed 3-4 above that post. And if you open the post...there are stats inside..which was the reason I posted this here. Not because there is a thread on him lol.

Make the case. ... I don't want to hear random stats. ..

I want a coherent argument. ... I want to hear a story that analyses the stats. ... That analyses why he will be different to the others. ..


It can be done in a single post.... doesn't need a thread.


Show me why he is better than Sarfraz. .. And Potentially better than kami

 

[Inziquicksingle]

Make the case. ... I don't want to hear random stats. ..

I want a coherent argument. ... I want to hear a story that analyses the stats. ... That analyses why he will be different to the others. ..


It can be done in a single post.... doesn't need a thread.


Show me why he is better than Sarfraz. .. And Potentially better than kami

Amazing thread but no-one has ever tried to analyse the impact the drops have had on results so thought I would have a go (though limited it to tests).

Have been generous to Kamran and only calculated the extra runs scored. In reality, on many occasions a wicket would have helped with momentum (the old adage of one wicket brings two) and put us in a better position.

England v Pakistan 1st Test Lords 2006

1) http://www.espncricinfo.com/engvpak/...iew=commentary
63.2 Collingwood was on 79(Final Score = 186)
Umar Gul to Collingwood, no run, gone, out, no! Dropped! Leg-cutter, outside edge straight to Kamran Akmal ? dreadful shot from Collingwood I might add ? and, somehow, Akmal shelled it. Deafening silence from the captain Inzamam-ul-Haq, and not much more being said from the slips. Ooh, that?s a shocker

Scorecard http://www.espncricinfo.com/engvpak/...ch/225255.html

England declared at 8 wickets down setting pakistan 380 to win. Let us assume that the chase would have been 280. It would have set up a possible Pakistan win but I will assume the match would still have been drawn.

England v Pakistan 3rd Test Headingley 2006

2) http://www.espncricinfo.com/engvpak/...iew=commentary
38.2 Collingwood was on 21(Final Score = 31)
Shahid Nazir to Collingwood, no run, yikes, Collingwood hangs his bat out to dry ? good away-swing from Shahid again ? but it passes his outside edge. Nevertheless, Akmal somehow drops a clanger and the ball bobbles from his gloves


3) http://www.espncricinfo.com/engvpak/...iew=commentary
5.4 ME Trescothick was on 7(Final Score = 58)
Umar Gul to Trescothick, no run, DROPPED, Kamran Akmal has dropped him. A terrific ball from Gul rising on Trescothick who feathers an edge. Gul goes up to celebrate but Akmal, with iron gloves, clangs a sitter

Scorecard http://www.espncricinfo.com/engvpak/...ch/225257.html

England were bowled out leaving a target of 323. Without the Akmal drops the target would have been 262. Notwithstanding that Pakistan were bowled out for 155, I am confident that without scoreboard pressure the complexion of the match would have been different and Pakistan would have scraped home.

England v Pakistan, 4th Test Oval 2006

4)http://www.espncricinfo.com/engvpak/...iew=commentary
40.3 Mahmood was on 0 (Final Score = 15)
Danish Kaneria to Mahmood, 4 byes, ah, should have been out. Mahmood came down the wicket aiming to hoick that over mid-on; instead he completely missed it and should have been stumped by yards but Akmal didn’t even move and the ball flew past his gloves really easily

5) http://www.espncricinfo.com/engvpak/...iew=commentary
36.1 KP Pietersen was on 15 (Final Score = 96)
Danish Kaneria to Pietersen, no run, oooh, outside edge and dropped. Snorter of a delivery, Pietersen's caught in two minds, and Akmal can't hold on to the feather. Kaneria's just not having the luck today.

Scorecard http://www.espncricinfo.com/engvpak/...ch/225258.html

The infamous Inzy/Hair test. Pakistan protested when England were still 33 runs in arrears with 6 wkts left. They would have been 129 runs in arrears without the Akmal blunders. In fact if he had caught Pietersen it is likely that England would have folded before Hair penalised Pakistan for ball tampering. Remember also that the probable reason for the ball getting scuffed was Pietersen smashing a few boundaries against the hoardings. If Kamran could catch none of this would have happened and Pakistan would have won comfortably without any controversy.

So overall, in that series, rather than suffering a humiliating 3-0 loss, we would most likely have won 2-1, and possibly even 3-1 which would have been a great achievement against a very strong England.

Pakistan v West Indies, 3rd test Karachi 2006

6) http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakvwi/e...iew=commentary
83.1 DBL Powell was on 1 (Final Score = 1)
Umar Gul to Powell, no run, DROPPED! good length delivery wide outside the off stump, pitches and moves away, comes forward and feels for it, gets the edge to the right of Akmal, who dives across and puts down the catch.

7) http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakvwi/e...iew=commentary
63.3 Ramdin was on 10 (Final Score = 25*)
Abdul Razzaq to Ramdin, no run, Dropped! fraction short on the off stump, swinging away nicely, Ramdin moves back to defend, gets squared up by the outswinger, thick edge and Akmal dives to his right and fails to catch.

Scorecard http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakvwi/e...ch/257767.html

Luckily we still won comfortably so Kamran's blunders were inconsequential.

South Africa v Pakistan, 2nd Test, Port Elizabeth 2007

8) http://www.espncricinfo.com/rsavpak/...iew=commentary
17.2 AG Prince was on 2 (Final Score = 2)
Mohammad Sami to Prince, no run, ooh, dropped by Akmal. That was a long way across Prince, who slashes a thick edge through and it pops in and out of Akmal's gloves at chest height. What a costly miss that could be - Prince has been in such good form

9) http://www.espncricinfo.com/rsavpak/...iew=commentary
22.3 Gibbs was on 2 (Final Score = 2)
Danish Kaneria to Gibbs, no run, ooh! Edge again - but dropped. Kaneria sent the ball bending back in at the right hander, taking the edge and spilled again by Akmal. Good bowling, this

10) http://www.espncricinfo.com/rsavpak/...iew=commentary
40.4 Prince was on 17 (Final Score = 22)
Danish Kaneria to Prince, no run, stumping chance missed! A lovely teasing flighted delivery, again Prince comes down the track and is beaten by the flight and the dip. The ball threads through the bat and pad gap and is just outside off stump and Akmal clangs it. Would have been definitely out had he gathered.

11) http://www.espncricinfo.com/rsavpak/...iew=commentary
70.1 Kallis was on 63 (Final Score = 91)
Danish Kaneria to Kallis, no run, oh no - has Akmal dropped yet another one? Ooh, not sure - Kallis went chasing that one and seemed to feather it through to Akmal who drops it. But the replays are inconclusive. Akmal's having a poor match anyway.

12) http://www.espncricinfo.com/rsavpak/...iew=commentary
103.1 MV Boucher was on 27 (Final Score = 46)
Mohammad Hafeez to Boucher, no run, Akmal drops another one! tossed up and this one turned back in sharply, Boucher defends on the back-foot and the ball clips the inside edge and goes behind but Akmal fails to hold on to a fairly easy chance. He is clearly having a tough time out there

13) http://www.espncricinfo.com/rsavpak/...iew=commentary
117.3 MV Boucher was on 44 (Final Score = 46)
Danish Kaneria to Boucher, 2 runs, cuts and gets an edge, DROPPED! by Akmal, who lets another chance go by

Scorecard http://www.espncricinfo.com/rsavpak/...ch/250666.html

A tricky 191 chase which at one stage we looked like failing to get would have been a stroll in the park 139.

South Africa v Pakistan, 3rd test Cape Town 2007

14) http://www.espncricinfo.com/rsavpak/...iew=commentary
62.5 Prince was on 58 (Final Score = 59)
Shahid Nazir to Prince, no run, oh no! Akmal's had a(nother) shocker there. Prince got a big inside edge and there was a regulation catch, low to his right, which slips out of his gloves while the players are busy celebrating. It's unlikely to have made a huge difference, in truth, but it won't have done Akmal's confidence, nor his reputation, any good

Scorecard http://www.espncricinfo.com/rsavpak/...ch/250667.html

The match was gone when he dropped Prince so it was of no consequence to the result.

Pakistan v South Africa, 1st test Karachi 2007

15) http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakvrsa/...iew=commentary
54.5 Kallis was on 36 (Final Score = 155)
Danish Kaneria to Kallis, no run, outside off, short, forcing off the back foot, DROPPED, edges, Akmal can not hold on

Scorecard http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakvrsa/...ch/299004.html

Pakistan lost by 160 having set 424 runs. Kamran's drop was worth 119 runs but was momentum changing. Nevertheless, it might be too far fetched to imagine a Pakistan win when South Africa declared with 7 down but I am confident that Pakistan would have been able to hold out for the draw with a much lower target (I assumed the chase would have been around 350 without the Kallis drop).

Pakistan v South Africa, 2nd test Lahore 2007

16) http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakvrsa/...iew=commentary
13.4 Smith was on 18 (Final Score = 133)
Danish Kaneria to Smith, 1 run, DROPPED, drives from the front foot, turns back from the rough, inside edge, pad, Akmal tries to get the full glove to it, hard chance put down

Scorecard http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakvrsa/...ch/299005.html

Smith was the lucky beneficiary of the Akmal largesse and added another 115 runs. Momentum shift aside, given that South Africa had set Pakistan a mammoth 457 runs to win, they had declared with only 4 wickets down so its hard to imagine another outcome than a draw.

India v Pakistan, 2nd test Calcutta 2007

17) http://www.espncricinfo.com/indvpak/...iew=commentary
55.6 Tendulkar was on 28 (Final Score = 82)
Mohammad Sami to Tendulkar, 1 run, dropped by Akmal. Not a surprise, actually. Only surprise is he usually catches Tendulkar. It was banged in short, outside off stump, Tendulkar decides late to go for a upper cut, doesn't connect properly and Akmal thrusts his right glove out but fails to hold on and ends up palming it behind him.

Scorecard http://www.espncricinfo.com/indvpak/...ch/297807.html

India declared with plenty of wickets in hand setting Pakistan 345. The 54 runs given due to Akmal's inability would only have meant India delaying their declaration and the same outcome would have prevailed.

India v Pakistan - 3rd Test, Bangalore 2007

18) http://www.espncricinfo.com/indvpak/...iew=commentary
118.6 Pathan was on 23 (Final Score = 102)
Danish Kaneria to Pathan, no run, fullish and outside the off, played at with hard hands, the ball slips past bat, the reactions from Akmal, who gloves the ball to the floor, and the bowler, suggest that there might have been an edge to that

Scorecard http://www.espncricinfo.com/indvpak/...ch/297808.html

A similar story at Bangalore with India setting a notional target of 374 when they still had 4 wickets in the bank. Could be argued that the chase would have been 350 with many more overs to be bowled but difficult to see any other result other than a draw. In fact Pakistan were more likely to have lost if Pathan had been caught as it would have given India more time to bowl Pakistan out second time round but I'm not giving him any credit for that!


Pakistan v Sri Lanka, 2nd Test, Lahore 2009

19) http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakvsl/e...iew=commentary
59.4 Samaraweera was on 69 (Final Score = 214)
Danish Kaneria to Samaraweera, 1 run, dropped, Kamran this time, outside off, stretches forward and gets the edge, Kamran puts it down.

Scorecard http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakvsl/e...ch/388994.html

Inconsequential due to the attack on the Sri Lankan bus.

Sri Lanka v Pakistan, 1st test, Galle 2009

20) http://www.espncricinfo.com/slvpak20...iew=commentary
7.2 Jayawardene was on 0 (Final Score = 30)
Mohammad Amir to Jayawardene, no run, Dropped Akmal's the culprit, Aamer bowls it in the corridor outside off and induces a nick, Akmal didn't have to move, he's dropped a sitter

Scorecard http://www.espncricinfo.com/slvpak20...ch/403367.html

Pakistan lost by 50 runs. Akmal's blunder cost 30 runs. I'm sure Pakistan would have chased down a target of 138 runs so this loss is attributed to Akmal's drop.

Sri Lanka v Pakistan, 3rd test, Colombo 2009

21) http://www.espncricinfo.com/slvpak20...iew=commentary
29.3 AD Mathews was on 12 (Final Score = 31)
Saeed Ajmal to Mathews, no run, dropped, Akmal spills it, spun back in but not as much as Mathews expected, played inside the line while trying to defend, got a thin edge but Akmal could not pouch it, tried again at the second attempt but failed.

Scorecard http://www.espncricinfo.com/slvpak20...ch/403369.html

Inconsequential - the match would have been drawn in any event.

New Zealand v Pakistan, 1st test, Dunedin 2009

22) http://www.espncricinfo.com/nzvpak20...iew=commentary
123.3 Vettori was on 91 (Final Score = 99)
Umar Gul to Vettori, FOUR, Dropped Confusion between Farhat and Akmal, Gul holds the length back and Vettori hangs his bat out and gets a thick outside edge, the ball flies through the gap between keeper and first slip and both went for it but the ball beat them both.

Scorecard http://www.espncricinfo.com/nzvpak20...ch/423778.html

Pakistan lost by 32 runs. Could be argued that with a slightly smaller target Pakistan would have scraped home.

Australia v Pakistan, 1st Test Melbourne 2009

23) http://www.espncricinfo.com/ausvpak0...iew=commentary
74.6 Ponting was on 30 (Final Score = 57)
Mohammad Asif to Ponting, no run, forward with bat and pad to a good delivery that nips through the batsman's defence, if he nicked it it was of no consequence since Kamran Akmal failed to take it cleanly. Replays suggest Ponting probably got an inside edge. So perhaps we can put that one down as a drop to Kamran Akmal.

Scorecard http://www.espncricinfo.com/ausvpak0...ch/406199.html

Pakistan lost by 170 runs so inconsequential as Pak would have got hammered anyway.

Australia v Pakistan, 2nd test Sydney 2010

24) http://www.espncricinfo.com/ausvpak0...iew=commentary
52.6 Hussey Was on 27 (Final Score = 134)
Danish Kaneria to Hussey, no run, trying playing defensively from the crease, Hussey's beaten by a ball that rips past the outside edge of his upright bat
Subsquent replays suggest this may have been a dropped catch by Kamran Akmal. If it was it only got the faintest edge from Hussey's bat.
Oh yes, definitely an edge looking at it from front-on.

25) http://www.espncricinfo.com/ausvpak0...iew=commentary
62.2 Hussey Was on 45 (Final Score = 134)
Danish Kaneria to Hussey, no run, dropped, defensively forward, inside edge onto pad, through to the keeper who spills it

26) http://www.espncricinfo.com/ausvpak0...iew=commentary
66.4 Hussey Was on 52 (Final Score = 134)
Danish Kaneria to Hussey, no run, dropped, pushing at a ball outside off, a thick outside edge is split by the wicket-keeper Kamran Akmal.

27) http://www.espncricinfo.com/ausvpak0...iew=commentary
113.2 PM Siddle was on 25 (Final Score = 38)
Mohammad Sami to Siddle, 1 run, dropped, short ball down leg, Siddle swishes at it, gloves it but it's dropped by the keeper to his left, should have taken it, the ball runs away for a single

Scorecard http://www.espncricinfo.com/ausvpak0...ch/406200.html

Lost by 36 runs. Kamran's drops cost at least 130 runs (not forgetting the Watson non run-out). The lowest point. Instead of a famous innings victory, Sydney 2010 became one of Pakistan's most humiliating defeats in history all down to one man.

England v Pakistan, 1st test, Trent Bridge 2010

28) http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-...iew=commentary
4.3 AJ Strauss was on 15 (Final Score = 45)
Mohammad Amir to Strauss, no run, 136.0 kph, dropped! Kamran, what have you done? Perfect outswinger from Aamer, Strauss edges and Akmal puts down the simplest of chances. Kamran kept so well against Australia - relatively speaking, anyway - but this is the worst possible start for him against England

29) http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-...iew=commentary
22.4 Collingwood was on 0 (Final Score = 1)
Umar Gul to Collingwood, no run, 142.1 kph, oh no! Kamran has gone from hero back to zero! Dropped! After just pulling off a stunner he's put Collingwood down first ball, it was wide, Collingwood flashed a cut and edges it towards first slip, Akmal flew across and dropped the chance

30)http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-...iew=commentary
70.2 Collingwood was on 48(Final Score = 82)
Danish Kaneria to Collingwood, no run, missed stumping! Kamran's really not having a good day... Collingwood charged down the track, was beaten in the air and by the turn. He was practically walking off he was so far down, but Kamran fumbled the take, and couldn't pick the ball up before the batsman got back in. Kaneria really needed that wicket - Pakistan needed it!

Scorecard http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-...ch/426413.html

Lost by 354 runs so the drops were inconsequential to the final result.

England v Pakistan, 3rd test, The Oval 2010

31) http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-...iew=commentary
37.3 MJ Prior was on 29 (Final Score = 84*)
Mohammad Asif to Prior, 4 leg byes, 128.9 kph, and that one's dropped, but a very tough chance for Kamran. You can't expect him to take that - it's an inside edge onto the thigh and then sneaking past the stumps, Kamran dives and just gets his left fingertip to the ball as it runs away towards fine leg for a boundary
Steve Davis has called that leg byes, but there was an inside edge on it, no question

Scorecard http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-...ch/426415.html

Pakistan scraped home by 4 wickets but it would have been a stroll in the park had he caught Prior early on.

England v Pakistan, 4th test Lords 2010

32) http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-...iew=commentary
115.3 Broad was on 132 (Final Score = 169)
Saeed Ajmal to Broad, no run, 94.6 kph, dropped a beauty...he played forward again and it grazes the outside edge but Kamran Akmal can't hold on. There was very little reaction from the players.

Scorecard http://www.espncricinfo.com/england-...ch/426416.html

Without a doubt Pakistan's most shameful, humiliating and abject defeat in their entire test history for all sorts of reasons. For once, Akmal's drop was not a talking point.

OVERALL SUMMARY

By my calculation but for Akmal:

1. Pakistan could have won the Lords 2006 test rather than drawn
2. Pakistan could have won the Headingley 2006 test rather than lost
3. Pakistan would have won the Oval 2006 test rather than lost

With the above results a 3-0 loss would have been a 2-1 victory (I think Lords would have been a draw in any event though Fahat was the real villian in that test as he dropped 3 sitters) and Ovalgate would never have happened!

4. Pakistan would have drawn the Karachi 2007 test rather than lost (could be argued Pakistan could have won that test)

A 1-0 series loss would have been a 0-0 draw

5. Pakistan could have won the Galle 2009 test rather than lost

With that result a 2-0 series loss would have been 1-1

6. Pakistan could have won the Dunedin 2009 test rather than lost

With that result a 1-1 series draw would have been a 2-0 victory

7. Pakistan would have hammered Australia in the Sydney 2009 test

With that result a 3-0 series loss would have been a 2-1 loss (though who knows what effect it would have had on the last test had it been 1-1)

The only question is when will he be back..............

 

[SwingNSeam]

Make the case. ... I don't want to hear random stats. ..

I want a coherent argument. ... I want to hear a story that analyses the stats. ... That analyses why he will be different to the others. ..


It can be done in a single post.... doesn't need a thread.


Show me why he is better than Sarfraz. .. And Potentially better than kami

I dont mind Sarfraz..as long as its not kami..hes been given wayyy too many chances...and he has cost us a lot.

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

1. they are good keepers, and not sloppy.
2. they can bat.

should be good enough of an analysis for anybody to at least try out keepers...if their gilly equivalent aint performing.

Is that the best you could come up with?
Good effort. .. but I'm not convinced. ..

Kami in LOIs and Sarfraz in tests (with a view to replacing Kami in LOIs) it is...

 

[SwingNSeam]

Is that the best you could come up with?
Good effort. .. but I'm not convinced. ..

Kami in LOIs and Sarfraz in tests (with a view to replacing Kami in LOIs) it is...

thats all anybody needs to consider at least one of them...especially over Kami.

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

I dont mind Sarfraz..as long as its not kami..hes been given wayyy too many chances...and he has cost us a lot.

If you don't mind Sarfraz. .. then thats good.

He's the best our there. ... He's been averaging over 40 for years and has scored runs in big games previously. Others have produced spurts of good performance and then flopped.

He's scored runs against the better of the domestic bowlers consistently for years.

He is the only I mean only deserving player. ...

I want to ease him in taking account all the factors I described previously.

1) tests first
2) don't over burden him having all jobs
3) don't over pressurise him by having to withstand Kami lobby as well as losing the fear of a cricket ball
4) can't change all LOI TTFs at the same time
5) there are more ready made replacements for other TTFs so let's let them bed-in whilst Sarfraz gets comfortable in tests where he doesn't even have to score much. .. Just keep well.

 

[SwingNSeam]

If you don't mind Sarfraz. .. then thats good.

He's the best our there. ... He's been averaging over 40 for years and has scored runs in big games previously. Others have produced spurts of good performance and then flopped.

He's scored runs against the better of the domestic bowlers consistently for years.

He is the only I mean only deserving player. ...

I want to ease him in taking account all the factors I described previously.

I have been in favor of Sarfraz...but I feel like that the management might not play him..especially in the ODIs..and whats unfair is kamran keeps getting picked even after a trillion failures..yet he is persisted with. The reason I was talking about all those other WKs is because I doubt the selectors are going to give Sarfraz a chance..so might as well be someone new..but not kami.

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

I have been in favor of Sarfraz...but I feel like that the management might not play him..especially in the ODIs..and whats unfair is kamran keeps getting picked even after a trillion failures..yet he is persisted with. The reason I was talking about all those other WKs is because I doubt the selectors are going to give Sarfraz a chance..so might as well be someone new..but not kami.

See above. ... Don't talk about hyped players... Or even players that haven't even been hyped yet.

Stick to the best. ... Sarfraz is clearly the best of them.

By a distance.


Now look at the 1-5 above as to why its better to ease him in. ....

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

PPers must think of all angles. ...

Don't comment on players with blinkers on. ... think of all the angles so that we maximise our chances of success.


It would be easy for me to say drop Kami. ... but I can't just accept something that clearly isn't optimal.

 

[SwingNSeam]

See above. ... Don't talk about hyped players... Or even players that haven't even been hyped yet.

Stick to the best. ... Sarfraz is clearly the best of them.

By a distance.


Now look at the 1-5 above as to why its better to ease him in. ....

Umm while hes easing in...we stick to kami?

back to square 1.

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Umm while hes easing in...we stick to kami?

back to square 1.

Eased in by playing and developing in the test game first. (Read the 1-5)


I was so so happy that Sarfraz was batting nicely in the last innings he played v SA in the tests. ... I hope the selectors don't ignore that and bring back Adnan. .. then we really will be back to square 1...

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

@inziqs

We have to take the risk with Kami as he can score runs and the replacements aren't ready...

In tests the cost is much greater than the benefit so happy to have Sarfraz.

Sarfraz is not ready for LOIs yet. .. see my 1-5 why is better to ease Sarfraz in.


In the last two LOI series Kami has kept well. I don't remember any clear cut drops.

We have to look at all angles.

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

There are no miracle cures. ..

Its easy to wish a problem away ... It just takes a couple of thread on PP...

Its really really hard to become an international success batting wise. .. really really hard.

Takes time and effort and a sensible approach.


Sarfraz is the man. ... lets not rush things..... step by step...

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

I want to use the Umar Akmal analogy to show you how hard it is to be a success in Pakistan. ...

Man is ranked 15 (was 10th)
Man averages 37
Man SRs 80+
Man is one of 3 players EVER to have that SR AVE combo
Man has never played at home
Man has centuries and fifties against some of the top bowlers in the world
Man has the best run scoring spread ie dot balls 1s 2s 3s etc of all our Batters. ... (see doger thread)
Man is still 22 years old!!!!!!


Yet he is the most hated and despised cricketer in Pakistan and can't get a game! !!!!

Its bloody hard to be successfull...

 

[Dr_Bassim]

At least U.Akmal has a case.

Kami none whatsoever.

I'll ask you an honest question. What if Kami decided to retire today ?

Would you be on your knees begging him to come back for the sake of Pakistan cricket?

I want you to think hard.

Your answer will tell me everything I need to know.

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

At least U.Akmal has a case.

Kami none whatsoever.

I'll ask you an honest question. What if Kami decided to retire today ?

Would you be on your knees begging him to come back for the sake of Pakistan cricket?

I want you to think hard.

Your answer will tell me everything I need to know.

You didn't understand the point I was making about Umar Akmal. ...

Its that we need to look after the replacement for kami otherwise he will be on the scrap heap.

Personally don't want Kami to retire. .. I want Sarfraz to develop in tests then kick Kami out on merit!!!!

If kami retired life would be easier for Sarfraz. (And I wouldn't be screaming for Kami to unretire). There would be less pessure and expectations on Sarfraz.. wouldn't constantly be being compared to Kami... or deal with Kami lobby.....But he still needs to develop until he is ready to take over as a better LOI player.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

You didn't understand the point I was making about Umar Akmal. ...

Its that we need to look after the replacement for kami otherwise he will be on the scrap heap.

Personally don't want Kami to retire. .. I want Sarfraz to develop in tests then kick Kami out on merit!!!!

If kami retired life would be easier for Sarfraz. (And I wouldn't be screaming for Kami to unretire). There would be less pessure and expectations on Sarfraz.. wouldn't constantly be being compared to Kami... or deal with Kami lobby.....But he still needs to develop until he is ready to take over as a better LOI player.

Mr Khan Ji I think the dilemma is this.

Malik and others are batsmen. For a batsmen to replace a batsmen its far easier to find someone.

I agree with your assertion that it's far harder to find a suitable replacement for a wicket keeper.

But here's the fundamental flaw in your argument.

1. Kamran Akmal has the primary job of being a wicket keeper. If he misses stuff in keeping he is held liable.

Batting is his secondary role. If he performs his wicket keeping duties, he can add useful runs to the team batting.


2. Everywhere in the world the primary job of wicketkeeper is to keep. The secondary job is to bat.

3. In case of Pakistani wicketkeepers you want to prove the opposite thing.
You want them to be able to bat first, and keep later.
which is in digression from all countries of the world.


Let me try to find an answer in this.

Do you want a wicket keeper batsmen who can bat more than keep because Pakistani team struggles while batting?

Or do you honestly think the role of wicket keeper batsmen is to bat first and keeping is secondary asset?

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Mr Khan Ji I think the dilemma is this.

Malik and others are batsmen. For a batsmen to replace a batsmen its far easier to find someone.

I agree with your assertion that it's far harder to find a suitable replacement for a wicket keeper.

But here's the fundamental flaw in your argument.

1. Kamran Akmal has the primary job of being a wicket keeper. If he misses stuff in keeping he is held liable.

Batting is his secondary role. If he performs his wicket keeping duties, he can add useful runs to the team batting.


2. Everywhere in the world the primary job of wicketkeeper is to keep. The secondary job is to bat.

3. In case of Pakistani wicketkeepers you want to prove the opposite thing.
You want them to be able to bat first, and keep later.
which is in digression from all countries of the world.


Let me try to find an answer in this.

Do you want a wicket keeper batsmen who can bat more than keep because Pakistani team struggles while batting?

Or do you honestly think the role of wicket keeper batsmen is to bat first and keeping is secondary asset?

I agree with the argument you are making in your post. .. in principle.

On a like for like basis. ..

Ie if there were no capable Batters waiting to replace Malik and Co. ...

Then I would hit Kami first.... Definitely.


Fact is we have the replacement Batters (with potential), but not the keepers.

We have to take the risk with his keeping. (Definitily a risk) ... Last two series he has had no easy drops which is a good positive step....

Its all about balance.


If we drop Kami and Afridi and replace Farhat yk and Malik all at the same time. ..


We will have a disaster and they will all be back quicker than u can say TTF alert!!!

Not only that but the kids will be mentally scarred. ..

Look at Umar Amin and what happened to him after England. ...


Its a journey. .. a path. ... step by step processes
...

 

[Sledger]

I know.... hence the pool of players that could replace him is so much smaller. ...

Hence its so difficult to find a decent replacement. ..

The phrase "Beggars can't be choosers" comes to mind.

Beggars can't be choosers negates everything you've argued previously;

You're saying you want to wait for some quality keeper who shows and proves potential over a time period which you don't want to specify but at the same time 'beggars can't be choosers'?

The pool will always be smaller with WKs, that's obvious, yet you continue to avoid the fact that Kamran has been a consistent failure with the gloves and bat after being given a huge number of chances to prove everyone wrong. It's clear as day he's right at the top of the list of players who need to be dropped, in particular on recent performances, and exactly because Pakistan are 'beggars', a gamble will need to be taken with his replacement.

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Beggars can't be choosers negates everything you've argued previously;

You're saying you want to wait for some quality keeper who shows and proves potential over a time period which you don't want to specify but at the same time 'beggars can't be choosers'?

The pool will always be smaller with WKs, that's obvious, yet you continue to avoid the fact that Kamran has been a consistent failure with the gloves and bat after being given a huge number of chances to prove everyone wrong. It's clear as day he's right at the top of the list of players who need to be dropped, in particular on recent performances, and exactly because Pakistan are 'beggars', a gamble will need to be taken with his replacement.

Its a better gamble with the batsman than with the keeper.

The probability of a positive payoff is greater.

 

[Sledger]

1) I don't think it's a better gamble. A new keeper who takes his chances will benefit Pakistan, who win their games through bowling, more than Akmal. Add the batting form from LA and that's a bonus.
2) It's not as urgent a gamble: Malik has had performances in the last 2 series and won't be replaced on those grounds, Jamshed and Umar will be retained in the squads for Farhat/Younis if it comes to that.

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

1) I don't think it's a better gamble. A new keeper who takes his chances will benefit Pakistan, who win their games through bowling, more than Akmal. Add the batting form from LA and that's a bonus.
2) It's not as urgent a gamble: Malik has had performances in the last 2 series and won't be replaced on those grounds, Jamshed and Umar will be retained in the squads for Farhat/Younis if it comes to that.

I think we will have to agree to disagree as you think the gamble payoffs are different.

Malik YK and Farhat are in batting positions where an average of 40+ is the expectation. They average around 30.

Kami is in a position where an average of 30 is the expectation.

The replacements for the batters are likely to average around 35 initially and then potentially get to 40+ (one replacement currently averages 37, another 49... so its a reasonable assumption)

The kami replacement is likely to average 10 and then maybe increase - we have no evidence of international batting quality.

He will be a better keeper. .. but how much better? All the replacements so far havent been a huge amount better keeping wise.

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Somebody needs to work out mathematically how many runs on average Kami gives per game by drops.

Ie more than the best replacement.


At the moment we just guess based on visual evidence. Rather than available data.



In the last two series he didnt drop catches... juggled a couple.

 

[Sledger]

Kami is in a position where an average of 30 is the expectation.

The replacements for the batters are likely to average around 35 initially and then potentially get to 40+

The kami replacement is likely to average 10 and then maybe increase - we have no evidence of batting quality.

He will be a better keeper. .. but how much better? All the replacements so far havent been a huge amount better keeping wise.

Again you simply cannot be led astray by his batting average (which is 26 btw) when he makes your team take 12 or 13 wickets per match. Even so, not sure where you got the random 30 benchmark from. Dhoni? AB? Sangakkara?

'no evidence of batting quality' - that's why I've suggested taking the best from what Pakistan has in domestics. If you mean in internationals, neither did Akmal until after a couple of years, the time to invest is now - 2 years before the WC.

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Again you simply cannot be led astray by his batting average (which is 26 btw) when he makes your team take 12 or 13 wickets per match. Even so, not sure where you got the random 30 benchmark from. Dhoni? AB? Sangakkara?

'no evidence of batting quality' - that's why I've suggested taking the best from what Pakistan has in domestics. If you mean in internationals, neither did Akmal until after a couple of years, the time to invest is now - 2 years before the WC.

What do u mean led astray?

Batting averages are the best measure we have.

30 is the expectation for a keeper. .. anything else is a bonus. If u think we have a 40+ average keeper. ... find me him!!!!

I know Kami averages 26-27... He is 3-4 below the requirement.

12-13 wickets. ... That makes no sense.

You are implying he drops 3 more catches than the next best would do. ... Every game!!!!

That's simply not true.

You need to work out the average runs given through the dropped catches per game.



When I mean evidence of batting quality. ... I mean probability of averaging 30 for a keeper and 40 for a batter. ...


Which is more likely?

A batter who already averages 37 and 49... or the keeper who has never played an international game. ...

Give me some numbers. .. What's the probability of each happening?



IMO invest in the batters now. ... then Afridi and Kami next.

 

[shah_1]

make your own criteria for expected keeper average

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

make your own criteria for expected keeper average

Whats ur expectation?

 

[shah_1]

Whats ur expectation?

For ODI


33-35

For test

35-38

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Expected averages. .. You can move the order round.... or adjust the numbers slightly.

35 (high strike rate opener)
40
43
43
43
37 (high strike rate lower order)
30 (keeper)
25
10
10
10


In the middle order we are a million miles from expectation. ... Kami is not a million miles from expectations. ..

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

For ODI


33-35

For test

35-38

Fair enough. ...

Now find me a player with a higher probability than kami of getting to 33-35 in ODIs.

 

[shah_1]

Fair enough. ...

Now find me a player with a higher probability than kami of getting to 33-35 in ODIs.

Muhammad Rizwan

My expectation from him is 30, but still better than Kamran Akmal

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Muhammad Rizwan

My expectation from him is 30, but still better than Kamran Akmal

Whats the probability of him averaging 30 ...? Give me a number.

 

[shah_1]

Whats the probability. ...? Give me a number.

1-Certain

 

[Sledger]

What do u mean led astray?

Batting averages are the best measure we have.

Not for a keeper. You bring up his batting again and again, even to the extent where you defended an innings of 18 at one point. His keeping is the bigger issue, Pakistan win almost all their games through their bowling.

30 is the expectation for a keeper. .. anything else is a bonus. If u think we have a 40+ average keeper. ... find me him!!!!

I know Kami averages 26-27... He is 3-4 below the requirement.

Neither are there any replacements for Malik who will average 40+, all your arguments for Akmal's monopoly over batting are applicable to him.

12-13 wickets. ... That makes no sense.

You are implying he drops 3 more catches than the next best would do. ... Every game!!!!

That's simply not true.

That's a big inference I never mentioned - where have I said it would be 3 more than the replacement? I've said a number of time that any new WK will be a GAMBLE, however the 2-3 missed chances Kamran often gifts are enough for anyone to lose patience and rightfully so. The point I was making is that his rare decent innings (avg 26) cannot make up for the chances he lets through so trying to hype his batting average is a meaningless exercise.

When I mean evidence of batting quality. ... I mean probability of averaging 30 for a keeper and 40 for a batter. ...


Which is more likely?

A batter who already averages 37 and 49... or the keeper who has never played an international game. ...

Give me some numbers. .. What's the probability of each happening?

You continue to look at batting in isolation. The probability you want to compare is a keeper who takes chances > Akmal's taken chances over a probability of someone coming in and averaging 40 as a finisher. Any batting a new WK has in the first few years provided he can keep decently and has shown batting form in domestics will need time - 2 years before the WC is the perfect gap to fill this in, especially with Kamran's recalls where he's proven yet again to not be competent.

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

1-Certain

Percentage?

1-100?

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Not for a keeper. You bring up his batting again and again, even to the extent where you defended an innings of 18 at one point. His keeping is the bigger issue, Pakistan win almost all their games through their bowling.


Neither are there any replacements for Malik who will average 40+, all your arguments for Akmal's monopoly over batting are applicable to him.


That's a big inference I never mentioned - where have I said it would be 3 more than the replacement? I've said a number of time that any new WK will be a GAMBLE, however the 2-3 missed chances Kamran often gifts are enough for anyone to lose patience and rightfully so. The point I was making is that his rare decent innings (avg 26) cannot make up for the chances he lets through so trying to hype his batting average is a meaningless exercise.


You continue to look at batting in isolation. The probability you want to compare is a keeper who takes chances > Akmal's taken chances over a probability of someone coming in and averaging 40 as a finisher. Any batting a new WK has in the first few years provided he can keep decently and has shown batting form in domestics will need time - 2 years before the WC is the perfect gap to fill this in, especially with Kamran's recalls where he's proven yet again to not be competent.

1) for a keeper you need to balance the batting average with the average number of runs he gives away through drops per game.

2) There is no guarantee that the will average greater than Malik. ... but they are MORE LIKELY to. ....

3) rather than talk about frustration. .. etc. .. Try and work out on average how many runs he costs through drops (i.e more than the next man would)

4) I see your point that you can't look at batting in isolation for a keeper. ... look at 3) and work out how many runs he costs per game.

5) give me some probabilities....

What the probability of Umar Akmal averaging more than Malik. ..

What's the probability of Umar Akmal averaging 40+

What's the probably of a new keeper averaging more than kami

What's the probability of a new keeper averaging 30

(Feel free to take account of runs per game given away through drops)


Then compare the probabilistic percentages.

 

[Sledger]

1) Or have a keeper who, I don't know, does his primary job well and takes the required amount of chances he's offered. Any new keeper who catches and stumps well > Kamran with his match-costing butter fingers and 26 average.

2) Batting taken in isolation part 34632.

3) Or watch the games since 2006 where he's been a consistent juggler and decide it's not good enough.

4) ^
He costs enough games for it to hurt Pakistan's chances severely, that alone is enough criteria to get rid when there are not yet any available stats you'd be able to compare any quantified data with.

5) As far as I'm concerned, U Akmal replaces Younis not Malik. He should bat at 4/5, not 6/7.
I think it's highly unlikely he'll average 40+ if he's used that low down.

Next queries take batting into isolation once again, despite your brackets. There's no data on a new keeper's drops playing for Pakistan, thereby no context for Akmal, where Akmal will win by default. Required order: Observation>Data collection>Conclusions.

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

1) Or have a keeper who, I don't know, does his primary job well and takes the required amount of chances he's offered. Any new keeper who catches and stumps well > Kamran with his match-costing butter fingers and 26 average.

2) Batting taken in isolation part 34632.

3) Or watch the games since 2006 where he's been a consistent juggler and decide it's not good enough.

4) ^
He costs enough games for it to hurt Pakistan's chances severely, that alone is enough criteria to get rid when there are not yet any available stats you'd be able to compare any quantified data with.

5) As far as I'm concerned, U Akmal replaces Younis not Malik. He should bat at 4/5, not 6/7.
I think it's highly unlikely he'll average 40+ if he's used that low down.

Next queries take batting into isolation once again, despite your brackets. There's no data on a new keeper's drops playing for Pakistan, thereby no context for Akmal, where Akmal will win by default. Required order: Observation>Data collection>Conclusions.

1) give me a number. ... How many runs does he cost per game?

I know there's no data but work out an estimate.

Lets start with the last two series. .. How many drops?

2) not sure what u mean

3) I've seen the games. .. sometimes he is pretty bad. ..

4) see 1)

Otherwise I have a completely different expectation of his cost than you do..... at least estimate.

5) ok Akmal replaces yk.
Jamshed replaces Farhat.

That leaves shafiq for that role.

Use shafiq. Give me that probability....

Compare to the Keeper probability.

 

[SwingNSeam]

and then you ask why you keep getting bashed

 

[JibranAnsari]

One reason is good enough for me to never see Kami in team again.. he drops catches when it matters the most.

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

and then you ask why you keep getting bashed

Im happy to be bashed. .. I have a thick skin.


But give me your estimate of the number of runs on average his drops cost per game. ..

Then give me the probabilities of the new Batters being better than the old ones compared to the probability of the new Keeper scoring more runs (net) than kami.


Lets see the math.

 

[MR__KHAN__JI]

One reason is good enough for me to never see Kami in team again.. he drops catches when it matters the most.

How many runs on average does it cost per game.