The hypocrisy of New Zealand players is staggering!

[Gullycricket]

I mean the same NZ players were willing to risk everything and travel in hazmat suits when Covid risk was at maximum in IPL. A country which prides on its Covid response allowed it's citizens to play and even come back when people were dying on streets. Did they not know the "escalated threat " levels that time.

What else it is. You come, we host you and you practice fine, hold the trophy. And suddenly it's like you are scared like chicken. Because of some hoax and heresay. Ridiculous. Such a sad day. But it will pass.

 

[iniqbal223]

Thats what I said , if you read my previous post 1 month back

NZ will cancel for some reasons or the other

 

[Gullycricket]

Adding on , In Eng you have Jarvo running onto the field with so lax security. But again no let's go by hoaxes and rumours

 

[JaDed]

Everyone is a hypocrite though..

 

[UzmanBeast]

Adding on , In Eng you have Jarvo running onto the field with so lax security. But again no let's go by hoaxes and rumours

It's 60% a hoax in my mind. I need more confirmation, but I think that it is a hoax.

 

[Rajdeep]

@OP - You are not in their shoes, so you cant judge and call Kiwi players hypocrites. Maybe even covid ravaged India is safer that Pakistan? Maybe the threat they recieved today is so detrimental that they decided to cancel the tour immidiately?

Dont judge unless you are in their situation.

 

[street cricketer]

Foreign players don't take part in the IPL as the representatives of their country or even their cricket board. They do so on an individual level and all the risks they take is also their personal decision and not a decision of their cricket board like it is when they tour a country representing their national team.

 

[Saj]

The question is how to prove it was a hoax, if indeed it was a hoax.

 

[wajid]

Foreign players don't take part in the IPL as the representatives of their country or even their cricket board. They do so on an individual level and all the risks they take is also their personal decision and not a decision of their cricket board like it is when they tour a country representing their national team.

So that’s why their boards pocket a cut from their IPL salaries and issue them NOCs?

 

[Colorblind Genius]

The question is how to prove it was a hoax, if indeed it was a hoax.

Only if the NZ authorities lay it all out on the table. Which they probably won't right away.
Later when the dust settles, they might say, "AT THAT TIME we had credible intel, but it turns out now that our source wasn't reliable."

 

[street cricketer]

So that’s why their boards pocket a cut from their IPL salaries and issue them NOCs?

England players have pretty much declared in the past that they would take part in the IPL even as freelance players if they don't get NOC from their board. So these boards have no option but to provide NOC. Shakib has ditched a test series to play the IPL.

 

[Local.Dada]

The question is how to prove it was a hoax, if indeed it was a hoax.

If this was a silly hoax then Nzl will never share because it might be embarrassing on a lot of levels and if the threat is true then Pakistan will never share for protecting its image. So I guess we will never know.

 

[KingKhanWC]

The question is how to prove it was a hoax, if indeed it was a hoax.

NZ must give Pak proof the 'threat' was genuine.

They must explain why they believe Pak security wasnt enough for them?

Makes no sense.

Seems political to me.

 

[Local.Dada]

So that’s why their boards pocket a cut from their IPL salaries and issue them NOCs?

They do that as a compromise because if the boards are not on board then the players will just retire and play full time franchise cricket. Who makes what and who gets picked depends on the auction and the team managements talent scouts and analysts. There is no BCCI or the cricket boards involvement whatsoever.

 

[Titan24]

Everyone is a hypocrite though..

True. After a certain point (Till you can afford to not be a hypocrite) almost every is.

 

[Jeetlodil]

Suddenly the Ben Stokes bat attack in the final over of the WC final doesnt feel so bad. Well done Ben Stokes

 

[iniqbal223]

NZ must give Pak proof the 'threat' was genuine.

They must explain why they believe Pak security wasnt enough for them?

Makes no sense.

Seems political to me.

They dont have to, if they just say it was a direction from high commission in last 36 hrs (as they increased the risk levels)

Problem is not about their concerns for security risk (if there is)
But why it was a unilateral decision (as kameez pointed out); and second, these players were training last few days , if there was a risk they could have cancelled the tour in 24 hrs before first ODI, why just before the toss they did it

My simple understanding is :
1) Many of these players might have gotten last minute IPL contracts
2) If NZ wanted to cancel the tour, they could have given a reason of COVID infections within the team. But by telling this, they WILL sabotage their IPL participation


Mark this post...

 

[iniqbal223]

Main profit maker in all this is Reg Dickinson and his organization

 

[cricketjoshila]

Problem is that NZ wont share a shred of intelligence unless the five eyes authorise it. So no chance or little chance of knowing what actually happened.

 

[Major]

How are NZ players at fault?

They will do what their govt will ask them to

 

[cricketAXEpert]

I mean the same NZ players were willing to risk everything and travel in hazmat suits when Covid risk was at maximum in IPL. A country which prides on its Covid response allowed it's citizens to play and even come back when people were dying on streets. Did they not know the "escalated threat " levels that time.

What else it is. You come, we host you and you practice fine, hold the trophy. And suddenly it's like you are scared like chicken. Because of some hoax and heresay. Ridiculous. Such a sad day. But it will pass.

It was the NZ government. The players probably didn't have much say in that.

 

[Space Cat]

Blaming the players is childish. They were all fine with playing there untill this happened.

 

[IcedCoffee]

Money talks. No hypocrisy, just greed.

 

[gazza619]

I am trying to figure out how the most irrelevant 1st world country in world politics can be punished for this.

Struggling for answers.

 

[Varun]

Suddenly the Ben Stokes bat attack in the final over of the WC final doesnt feel so bad. Well done Ben Stokes

But Stokes is originally a Kiwi.

 

[ekpakistani]

Kiwis have lost all respect. pls never tour Pakistan again and we should not tour NZ on account of security threat to our players.

 

[PakLFC]

Like it or not the IPL is where the big money is. They will wear astronaut suits if need be to play in that tournament. If putting money first is hypocrisy then most of the world is that.

 

[Gullycricket]

@OP - You are not in their shoes, so you cant judge and call Kiwi players hypocrites. Maybe even covid ravaged India is safer that Pakistan? Maybe the threat they recieved today is so detrimental that they decided to cancel the tour immidiately?

Dont judge unless you are in their situation.

4000+ plus people were dying everyday when IPL was being played. Hospitals couldnt even accomdate ministers. And for a country which locks down on one case it should have been frightening.
But yes bigger threat was yesterday with so much security. Good joke

 

[Bahnz]

4000+ plus people were dying everyday when IPL was being played. Hospitals couldnt even accomdate ministers. And for a country which locks down on one case it should have been frightening.
But yes bigger threat was yesterday with so much security. Good joke

If NZ was worried about NZers coming from covid ravaged areas (i.e. the entire world) they’d never let any Nz citizens back into the country from overseas. NZ has well established MIQ protocols to minimise the risk of the introduction of the disease into the country. Furthermore, when the players departed for the IPL in early April, nobody knew how bad things would be a month later.

 

[FastBowlingAllrounder]

Foreign players don't take part in the IPL as the representatives of their country or even their cricket board. They do so on an individual level and all the risks they take is also their personal decision and not a decision of their cricket board like it is when they tour a country representing their national team.

Granted. But look at the actions Australia took - barring Australians returning from IPL from entering the country. In that case, the government of New Zealand did nothing when there was an evident threat. In this case, the same government took these measures without providing any credible reasoning.

 

[street cricketer]

Granted. But look at the actions Australia took - barring Australians returning from IPL from entering the country. In that case, the government of New Zealand did nothing when there was an evident threat. In this case, the same government took these measures without providing any credible reasoning.

From memory, most of the kiwi players left for England for the test series against England before the WTC final.

 

[FastBowlingAllrounder]

From memory, most of the kiwi players left for England for the test series against England before the WTC final.

Did all of them go or some return to NZ?

 

[Bahnz]

Did all of them go or some return to NZ?

Boult went back to NZ to spend a week with his family.

 

[saeedhk]

There is massive difference between visiting a COVID-infested place than a place where militants attacks cricketers in broad daylight with bazookas. Stop kidding yourself!

Which one would you prefer to visit?

 

[OMB]

Was it the New Zealand players or New Zealand Cricket Board or the New Zealand Government?

 

[Gilly]

Was it the New Zealand players or New Zealand Cricket Board or the New Zealand Government?

NZ government would have received advice from security advisors and updated their levels and the NZCB would be obligated to follow that advice. The players would of had no input.

 

[Abu_Hamza]

There is massive difference between visiting a COVID-infested place than a place where militants attacks cricketers in broad daylight with bazookas. Stop kidding yourself!

Which one would you prefer to visit?

People who are habitual of terrorists attacks will visit the place where militants attacks cricketers in broad daylight with bazookas.

 

[Gullycricket]

There is massive difference between visiting a COVID-infested place than a place where militants attacks cricketers in broad daylight with bazookas. Stop kidding yourself!

Which one would you prefer to visit?

I don't see 4000 plus people dying in pindi everyday. Come on man countries isolated themselves over covid. In NZ it was considered war service to stay home and lockdown.
Truth is I would visit none. But why this drama by NZ . They should have withdrawn from both IPL and this series (beforehand not 10 mins before toss). In IPL they waited till the tournament itself was postponed. Tells you everything

 

[UzmanBeast]

Problem is that NZ wont share a shred of intelligence unless the five eyes authorise it. So no chance or little chance of knowing what actually happened.

This is the cause for concern.

Why won't Five Eyes authorize sharing this evidence?

New Zealanders are saying that we are hurling abuse for no reason, but the fact that they are unwilling to share the evidence for a potential security threat is laughable.

I wonder how slow Five Eyes' internet is that it's taking them so long to communicate with the security officials in Pakistan.

 

[Gilly]

This is the cause for concern.

Why won't Five Eyes authorize sharing this evidence?

New Zealanders are saying that we are hurling abuse for no reason, but the fact that they are unwilling to share the evidence for a potential security threat is laughable.

I wonder how slow Five Eyes' internet is that it's taking them so long to communicate with the security officials in Pakistan.

There is no evidence that can be shown in most instances, it could be the combination of chatter or the observance of unusual activity. Intelligence is mostly the gathering of information to give a broad range of outcomes.

 

[Space Cat]

This is the cause for concern.

Why won't Five Eyes authorize sharing this evidence?

New Zealanders are saying that we are hurling abuse for no reason, but the fact that they are unwilling to share the evidence for a potential security threat is laughable.

I wonder how slow Five Eyes' internet is that it's taking them so long to communicate with the security officials in Pakistan.

You need to think about how security intelligence works. You cannot put sources at risk for the sake of public curiosity. Further information will be released when it is deemed safe to do so. Somebody likely risked their life for this intel remember that.

 

[Shutdown Corner]

It is what it is. Quite sad, and of course there is a double standard at play. But thats just how the world works.

Pakistan is a major cricketing country. Worst case scenario they may have to host a few series vs white teams in UAE or SL for a a few months. I don't see this lasting long. Just hope all the Super League and WTC fixtures get completed on time unlike with COVID. I think the progress PCB/PAK gov made in terms of hosting cricket is too significant for it to be a set by an actual threat. Would be different if an attack actually happened.

Best wishes for Pakistan cricket.

 

[saeedhk]

I don't see 4000 plus people dying in pindi everyday. Come on man countries isolated themselves over covid. In NZ it was considered war service to stay home and lockdown.
Truth is I would visit none. But why this drama by NZ . They should have withdrawn from both IPL and this series (beforehand not 10 mins before toss). In IPL they waited till the tournament itself was postponed. Tells you everything

There is no equivalence of COVID-19 with terrorist activity.

 

[UzmanBeast]

There is no evidence that can be shown in most instances, it could be the combination of chatter or the observance of unusual activity. Intelligence is mostly the gathering of information to give a broad range of outcomes.

Intelligence services communicate this chatter and "evidence" with each other all the time.

Why deliberately hold that evidence and keep the ISI in the dark?

 

[UzmanBeast]

You need to think about how security intelligence works. You cannot put sources at risk for the sake of public curiosity. Further information will be released when it is deemed safe to do so. Somebody likely risked their life for this intel remember that.

Yes, but this is again owing to the distrust in the ISI.

I think we all know how intelligence systems work. Nobody is gonna name the person who got them the intel, that's not how it works.

Keeping ISI in the dark was wrong on New Zealand's part because firstly, this security threat could have happened to the Pakistan team as well. Would you still have supported NZC withholding this information if it meant that someone else could have gotten hurt?

 

[Space Cat]

Yes, but this is again owing to the distrust in the ISI.

I think we all know how intelligence systems work. Nobody is gonna name the person who got them the intel, that's not how it works.

Keeping ISI in the dark was wrong on New Zealand's part because firstly, this security threat could have happened to the Pakistan team as well. Would you still have supported NZC withholding this information if it meant that someone else could have gotten hurt?

The intel came through five eyes. You can almost guarantee it wasnt NZ who obtained it. This is where things get murky with wether it came through US channels who i imagine are highly unlikely to cooperate with ISI?

 

[CrIc_Mystique]

If this was a silly hoax then Nzl will never share because it might be embarrassing on a lot of levels and if the threat is true then Pakistan will never share for protecting its image. So I guess we will never know.

true, cant agrue against this..

 

[Gilly]

Intelligence services communicate this chatter and "evidence" with each other all the time.

Why deliberately hold that evidence and keep the ISI in the dark?

So far, I dont know what ISI knew or didnt know. No intelligence group is going to share their information with a cricket board, what level of interaction there is between Pakistan intelligence and other intelligence groups I dont know and I'm sure ISI is not going to inform cricket supporters what they do or dont know.

I dont expect the PCB or NZC to ever know what the threats were.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

It seems someone is punishing Pakistan for supporting KPL.

 

[cricketjoshila]

This is the cause for concern.

Why won't Five Eyes authorize sharing this evidence?

New Zealanders are saying that we are hurling abuse for no reason, but the fact that they are unwilling to share the evidence for a potential security threat is laughable.

I wonder how slow Five Eyes' internet is that it's taking them so long to communicate with the security officials in Pakistan.

The 5 eyes and the isi are on opposite sides in the geo strategic spectrum.

 

[Major]

It seems someone is punishing Pakistan for supporting KPL.

TO be honest, this seems like possible thing

 

[UzmanBeast]

The 5 eyes and the isi are on opposite sides in the geo strategic spectrum.

Agreed.

Politics will now get interconnected in cricket.

I expect teams to make political stances during the WT20 as well, especially with regards to Afghanistan.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

It seems someone is punishing Pakistan for supporting KPL.

Yes, so you are saying organising "Khelo Azadi se" league backfired and instead of making any profit Pakistan lost 10 years of hard work to restart cricket in their home.

Looks like KPL turned out to be a failed investment .

 

[Titan24]

It seems someone is punishing Pakistan for supporting KPL.

If its something political then bigger parties are involved then countries fighting over Kashmir I think. However, you never know. More action going on in the world politics along with geo politics around our region then on the cricket field these days.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

No proof of hypocrisy here. It's a matter of perception as well. Players are in India every year for the IPL and even with the issues surrounding Covid-19, they probably feel safer in India than they ever will in Pakistan.

If anything, you could argue that the reason why the likes of Sammy , Liam Livingstone said they like to play in Pakistan for PSL was probably motivated by PSL conttracts more than anything else.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

If its something political then bigger parties are involved then countries fighting over Kashmir I think. However, you never know. More action going on in the world politics along with geo politics around our region then on the cricket field these days.

Not too long ago one cricket board was giving statements on behalf of their government and threatening to cancel visas of those who dared to associate themselves with KPL.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Not too long ago one cricket board was giving statements on behalf of their government and threatening to cancel visas of those who dared to associate themselves with KPL.

That was for the IPL apparently. When did BCCI become powerful enough to influence NZ government directives lol .

 

[nextover666666]

@OP - You are not in their shoes, so you cant judge and call Kiwi players hypocrites. Maybe even covid ravaged India is safer that Pakistan? Maybe the threat they recieved today is so detrimental that they decided to cancel the tour immidiately?

Dont judge unless you are in their situation.

It's funny YOU say that. Don't judge if you don't know the situation

 

[Last Monetarist]

The 5 eyes and the isi are on opposite sides in the geo strategic spectrum.

It's staggering why people can't understand that Pakistan has sided with an alliance that is openly engaged in a cold war with the west. The ignorance would be hilarious if the issue wasn't so serious.

 

[UzmanBeast]

No proof of hypocrisy here. It's a matter of perception as well. Players are in India every year for the IPL and even with the issues surrounding Covid-19, they probably feel safer in India than they ever will in Pakistan.

If anything, you could argue that the reason why the likes of Sammy , Liam Livingstone said they like to play in Pakistan for PSL was probably motivated by PSL conttracts more than anything else.

That too is your own perception.

Funny how you mention being motivated by contracts, where else do we often see that?

NZC made a baseless decision and should be held accountable. India is in no way related to the topic of discussion.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

That too is your own perception.

Funny how you mention being motivated by contracts, where else do we often see that?

NZC made a baseless decision and should be held accountable. India is in no way related to the topic of discussion.

I mentioned that because OP clearly mentions that NZ players are hypocrites for playing IPL.

 

[NodusTollens]

This is the cause for concern.

Why won't Five Eyes authorize sharing this evidence?

New Zealanders are saying that we are hurling abuse for no reason, but the fact that they are unwilling to share the evidence for a potential security threat is laughable.

I wonder how slow Five Eyes' internet is that it's taking them so long to communicate with the security officials in Pakistan.

People don't seem to understand that NZ cannot make any decisions to reveal intelligence from 5 eyes without prior approval of other parties. We may get a few snippets but the full intelligence being revealed is highly unlikely considering i) Jeopardising or endangering vital intelligence sources to equalize karma over the cancellation of a sportsball match is stupid ii) NZ likely does not have the leverage over other superpower intelligence countries in the group to get such clearances for releasing the full information anyway and iii) Pakistan foreign policy has not been aligned with the western bloc for several years which is just an amoral fact.


Hope the reasons are clear.

 

[Cricketrenew]

Ohhh 5 eyes this sounds like a plot from James Bond.......
NZ players were there to play they have to follow what they are told.
NZ Prime minister seems like a pretty reasonable person she would not have allowed NZ to leave if there was any chance they could play.

 

[Mp812]

You need to think about how security intelligence works. You cannot put sources at risk for the sake of public curiosity. Further information will be released when it is deemed safe to do so. Somebody likely risked their life for this intel remember that.

Informers need to be safeguarded for 2 main reasons. First their safety and secondly them not getting exposed will give u further intel later.
When OBL was found near a military camp nobody shared info before they got him . Guess why?

 

[Buffet]

Informers need to be safeguarded for 2 main reasons. First their safety and secondly them not getting exposed will give u further intel later.
When OBL was found near a military camp nobody shared info before they got him . Guess why?

Even sharing after the event could be a problem. The person who helped to identify Bin Laden was put in jail by Pakistan for 30 plus years.

 

[Savak]

If NZ does not make the so called threat public and prove the authenticity of the threat, we have every reason to suspect the threat was fabricated and that their conduct was in bad faith

 

[Snatch]

I hate to break it to people but the 5 eyes alliance do not consider governments like Pakistan safe to share all their shared intelligence with, that's why Pakistan are NOT part of that alliance. You may not like it that Pakistan are not trusted in the same way as those other countries trust one another, but there's clear reasons for this & that's the way it is.

Perhaps its time that Pakistan start looking at themselves, and why other countries feel this way rather than screaming hysteria, playing victim and blaming everyone else.

 

[Snatch]

If NZ does not make the so called threat public and prove the authenticity of the threat, we have every reason to suspect the threat was fabricated and that their conduct was in bad faith

For the hundredth time, it's not JUST up to NZ, it's up to all 5 eyes members. Why is this so difficult to grasp?

We don't know if one all all of the others didn't provide the permission.

 

[moghul]

It nothing to do with Kiwi players , it was government of NZL's decision, players had nothing to do with it.

 

[Savak]

It nothing to do with Kiwi players , it was government of NZL's decision, players had nothing to do with it.

That's not what the NZ PM has said, she has said she supports the decision made by the NZCB which means the decision was made by NZCB and not the NZ govt

 

[Savak]

For the hundredth time, it's not JUST up to NZ, it's up to all 5 eyes members. Why is this so difficult to grasp?

We don't know if one all all of the others didn't provide the permission.

Good luck making that argument in court when the injured party is screaming damages

 

[Snatch]

Good luck making that argument in court when the injured party is screaming damages

What court are you referring?

 

[Space Cat]

That's not what the NZ PM has said, she has said she supports the decision made by the NZCB which means the decision was made by NZCB and not the NZ govt

The government advised they leave and they made obvious decision and left. The NZ government doesnt issue orders to citizens. NZC could of disregarded the advice and stayed.

Also the touring party follow the advice of the security consultants with them. NZC is a cricket organization only.

 

[OMB]

For the hundredth time, it's not JUST up to NZ, it's up to all 5 eyes members. Why is this so difficult to grasp?

We don't know if one all all of the others didn't provide the permission.

This argument sounds like diluting the blame by spreading it onto others (5 eyes). That doesn't make ownership of NZ pullout decison reduced from 100% to 20%.
Their team had landed in Dubai and there is no more any perceived threat so we will wait for a disclosure.

 

[Junaids]

This is really insulting.

These New Zealand players are ones who had agreed to tour Pakistan (I wouldn't!) and who were there on matchday.

They had literally no other choice. They are not at liberty to defy their government's direction to leave Pakistan immediately.

You are blaming the very people who are trying to help you.

 

[Junaids]

The government advised they leave and they made obvious decision and left. The NZ government doesnt issue orders to citizens. NZC could of disregarded the advice and stayed.

Also the touring party follow the advice of the security consultants with them. NZC is a cricket organization only.

You know as well as I do that if you ignore a top level government terror warning and advisory for all citizens to leave a certain country, you render yourself uninsured.

No cricket board would continue a tour without insurance. It's unthinkable.

 

[OMB]

There is preassumption in the OP that New Zealand Players have decided to pull out.
Did we hear hear from any of the New Zealand players that they wanted to leave?

 

[Golden arm]

There is absolute no responsibility on kiwi players. The decision has been taken by security Establishment and lets not blame cricket community whether players or board!!!

 

[Space Cat]

I dont see how anybody with an IQ over 50 could think this is remotely the players fault. 80% of the squad are not even centrally contracted let alone in the IPL.

 

[UzmanBeast]

People don't seem to understand that NZ cannot make any decisions to reveal intelligence from 5 eyes without prior approval of other parties. We may get a few snippets but the full intelligence being revealed is highly unlikely considering i) Jeopardising or endangering vital intelligence sources to equalize karma over the cancellation of a sportsball match is stupid ii) NZ likely does not have the leverage over other superpower intelligence countries in the group to get such clearances for releasing the full information anyway and iii) Pakistan foreign policy has not been aligned with the western bloc for several years which is just an amoral fact.


Hope the reasons are clear.

Do you understand the precedent that this sets?

New Zealand, who have certainly not been the first to do so, have brought the world of politics into sports.

Expect others to do the same.