The Jasprit Bumrah workload myth: Is opting out of the 2nd Test against England justified?

[Mamoon]

Nonsense.

What stopped India from fluking the 2023 World Cup final?

India shamelessly counted every aspect of the World Cup but Bumrah still couldn’t get them over the line. How embarrassing.

The ODI World Cup is the biggest prize in cricket at least for the subcontinent. Bigger than any Test series win.

As long as Bumrah cannot deliver that for India, he cannot be better than Wasim.

controlled*

 

[Rajdeep]

Also @Mamoon , winning T20 world cup is as difficult as ODI version if not more. The 50 over world cup may be more prestigious but longer the game better sides eventually wins. However, due to the nature of T20 cricket, it is a tougher format where even smaller teams can cause upsets. Examples being Pakistan losing against Zim and USA, Netherlands beating SA etc.

Bumrah has single handedly won the last T20 world cup for India...absolutely single handedly. That Pakistan game was gone but it was his sheer brilliance that got us back in the game. The final against SA was gone and no bowler in the world could have win it from that situation. Remember it was also a huge pressure game where India had not won any ICC events for 10 years and fans expectation was huge. I know you will say it was a case of more SA chocking than India winning but we can slice and dice it anyway we want according to our convenience.

As far as ODI world cups are concerned, yes Bumrah has not won any yet but how is it his fault?

2019 Semi final vs NZ - bowlers restricting NZ to 239. If batsmen couldnt chase it down, how was it Bumrah's fault?

World cup final 2023 - if batsmen score only 240 in a tournament where avg score was 320, what will Bumrah do in a dew filled Ahmedabad stadium under lights? Yet he bowled his heart our and caught Australia reeling at 47/3.

So I think this 'Bumrah has not won any ODI world cup' is highly exaggerated. His only bad major ODI game was in Champions Trophy final 2017 where he couldnt recover fron that no ball. But you got to remember, he was absolutely rookie at that time.

Bumrah is the only bowler I have never seen been taken to the cleaners ever in international cricket. It is his 9th year in cricket and still not a single batsman managed to do that. Only Pant and Karun Nair has done it once each in IPL but none so ever in international arena. Most batters around the world looks to play him off with cuution. That itself shows the class of the man.

 

[Rajdeep]

Nonsense.

What stopped India from fluking the 2023 World Cup final?

India shamelessly counted every aspect of the World Cup but Bumrah still couldn’t get them over the line. How embarrassing.

The ODI World Cup is the biggest prize in cricket at least for the subcontinent. Bigger than any Test series win.

As long as Bumrah cannot deliver that for India, he cannot be better than Wasim.

Nope....no one in India would swap back to back test series wins in Australia over ODI world cup. Literally no one.

 

[mominsaigol]

Also @Mamoon , winning T20 world cup is as difficult as ODI version if not more. The 50 over world cup may be more prestigious but longer the game better sides eventually wins. However, due to the nature of T20 cricket, it is a tougher format where even smaller teams can cause upsets. Examples being Pakistan losing against Zim and USA, Netherlands beating SA etc.

Bumrah has single handedly won the last T20 world cup for India...absolutely single handedly. That Pakistan game was gone but it was his sheer brilliance that got us back in the game. The final against SA was gone and no bowler in the world could have win it from that situation. Remember it was also a huge pressure game where India had not won any ICC events for 10 years and fans expectation was huge. I know you will say it was a case of more SA chocking than India winning but we can slice and dice it anyway we want according to our convenience.

As far as ODI world cups are concerned, yes Bumrah has not won any yet but how is it his fault?

2019 Semi final vs NZ - bowlers restricting NZ to 239. If batsmen couldnt chase it down, how was it Bumrah's fault?

World cup final 2023 - if batsmen score only 240 in a tournament where avg score was 320, what will Bumrah do in a dew filled Ahmedabad stadium under lights? Yet he bowled his heart our and caught Australia reeling at 47/3.

So I think this 'Bumrah has not won any ODI world cup' is highly exaggerated. His only bad major ODI game was in Champions Trophy final 2017 where he couldnt recover fron that no ball. But you got to remember, he was absolutely rookie at that time.

Bumrah is the only bowler I have never seen been taken to the cleaners ever in international cricket. It is his 9th year in cricket and still not a single batsman managed to do that. Only Pant and Karun Nair has done it once each in IPL but none so ever in international arena. Most batters around the world looks to play him off with cuution. That itself shows the class of the man.

Really? Never seen taken to the cleaners? He got taken to the cleaners in the 1st test

 

[BreadPakoda]

Folks from a country with horrible bowlers like Shaheen, Rauf, Naseem, etc. who consistently bowl halwa and let oppositions make 800+ scores and allow Bangladesh to whitewash them at home cannot understand fast bowling. Shocked. Surprised.

 

[Mamoon]

Also @Mamoon , winning T20 world cup is as difficult as ODI version if not more. The 50 over world cup may be more prestigious but longer the game better sides eventually wins. However, due to the nature of T20 cricket, it is a tougher format where even smaller teams can cause upsets. Examples being Pakistan losing against Zim and USA, Netherlands beating SA etc.

Bumrah has single handedly won the last T20 world cup for India...absolutely single handedly. That Pakistan game was gone but it was his sheer brilliance that got us back in the game. The final against SA was gone and no bowler in the world could have win it from that situation. Remember it was also a huge pressure game where India had not won any ICC events for 10 years and fans expectation was huge. I know you will say it was a case of more SA chocking than India winning but we can slice and dice it anyway we want according to our convenience.

As far as ODI world cups are concerned, yes Bumrah has not won any yet but how is it his fault?

2019 Semi final vs NZ - bowlers restricting NZ to 239. If batsmen couldnt chase it down, how was it Bumrah's fault?

World cup final 2023 - if batsmen score only 240 in a tournament where avg score was 320, what will Bumrah do in a dew filled Ahmedabad stadium under lights? Yet he bowled his heart our and caught Australia reeling at 47/3.

So I think this 'Bumrah has not won any ODI world cup' is highly exaggerated. His only bad major ODI game was in Champions Trophy final 2017 where he couldnt recover fron that no ball. But you got to remember, he was absolutely rookie at that time.

Bumrah is the only bowler I have never seen been taken to the cleaners ever in international cricket. It is his 9th year in cricket and still not a single batsman managed to do that. Only Pant and Karun Nair has done it once each in IPL but none so ever in international arena. Most batters around the world looks to play him off with cuution. That itself shows the class of the man.

An ODI World Cup is far more prestigious than a T20 World Cup. It is not even debatable.

 

[Mamoon]

Nope....no one in India would swap back to back test series wins in Australia over ODI world cup. Literally no one.

Everyone would, including Rohit Sharma.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Folks from a country with horrible bowlers like Shaheen, Rauf, Naseem, etc. who consistently bowl halwa and let oppositions make 800+ scores and allow Bangladesh to whitewash them at home cannot understand fast bowling. Shocked. Surprised.

We have a decades long history and legacy of producing great fast-bowlers. And despite the current lull will continue producing fast-bowlers for many years to come.

No need to act all high and mighty just because you produced one great fast-bowler after decades of producing garbage..

If I started listing the Ashok Dindas and Vinay Kumars that India has produced over the years we would be here till tomorrow.

 

[BreadPakoda]

We have a decades long history and legacy of producing great fast-bowlers. And despite the current lull will continue producing fast-bowlers for many years to come.

No need to act all high and mighty just because you produced one great fast-bowler after decades of producing garbage..

If I started listing the Ashok Dindas and Vinay Kumars that India has produced over the years we would be here till tomorrow.

Boohoo. You’ve had a crap “pace” attack for years. And it now shows in the way most of your folks read and understand the art.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Boohoo. You’ve had a crap “pace” attack for years. And it now shows in the way most of your folks read and understand the art.

Like I said, a country whose fast-bowling has been the laughing stock of the cricketing world for decades should be the last one handing out masterclasses on the “art” they never mastered

 

[BreadPakoda]

Like I said, a country whose fast-bowling has been the laughing stock of the cricketing world for decades should be the last one handing out masterclasses on the “art” they never mastered

Naseem
Musa
Shaheen
Rauf

That’s your reality. Stop living in the past.
Exhibit:

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/england-in-pakistan-2024-25-1442205/pakistan-vs-england-1st-test-1442215/full-scorecard

 

[BreadPakoda]

Shaheen is a tundler halwa bowler today because he didn’t rest when he needed to. Of course it’s hard to understand when all you’ve been producing is cannon fodder for Warner, Brook, Litton Das, etc. Slowly and steadily your understanding of pace bowling fades away.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Naseem
Musa
Shaheen
Rauf

That’s your reality. Stop living in the past.

Clinging on to one bowler will neither erase decades of military-medium nostalgia, nor rewrite the DNA of a pace-starved system

But yeah, why don't you tell us how much you understand the "art" of fast-bowling by studying Agarkar and Prasad

 

[BreadPakoda]

Amir was right. PCB and quite clearly most Pak fans don’t understand how to handle fast bowlers. Good that he quit the sport and saved some grace.

 

[Devadwal]

Five per for Bumrah at the lord's test .

It is a proud moment for Lord's cricket ground to have GOAT Bumrah's name on the honour boards

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

And I feel lucky whenever you quote the same post twice, because it clearly shows that you have been triggered.

I type using my mobile and don’t want to usually write a long paragraph.

But no worries, if this helps you achieve your daily target then I have no issues.

 

[pillionrider]

But 1 wicket in 18 overs and failure to provide early breakthroughs and allowing England to be in a strong position was also a work of joy for an anti-India enthusiast.

Too bad he could not “set up” anyone else. No one takes more useless wickets in losses than Bumrah does.

I'm guessing you like Good Will Hunting. You know the apples line

 

[pillionrider]

Pakistanis celebrating Archer's return after 4 years. Yet also criticizing Bumrah for workload management

 

[cricketjoshila]

^ Correction: After this series, India is only playing 5 Tests (not 4) in the next 12 months.

October 2025: West Indies (2) (H)
November 2025: South Africa (2) (H)
June 2026: Afghanistan (1) (H)

He can easily skip the 3 Tests vs West Indies and Afghanistan at home as India will win those even by playing their reserve team. That leaves him with just two proper Test matches in the next 12 months.

Where is the workload? What is he saving himself for?

He has zero workload and this is all a big drama and nothing else.

Pakistanis are used to seeing their players break down due to excessive cricket they expect indians to make similar mistakes. When indians dnt make the mistakes pakistanis did they get frustrated an resut is these kind of threads

 

[Devadwal]

Op is getting humiliated by GOAT Bumrah .

 

[Ab Fan]

But 1 wicket in 18 overs and failure to provide early breakthroughs and allowing England to be in a strong position was also a work of joy for an anti-India enthusiast.

Too bad he could not “set up” anyone else. No one takes more useless wickets in losses than Bumrah does.

Cry me a river bud as your wish went for a toss. Said too early.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Pakistanis are used to seeing their players break down due to excessive cricket they expect indians to make similar mistakes. When indians dnt make the mistakes pakistanis did they get frustrated an resut is these kind of threads

Yep. Their bowlers (and batsmen) play everything from Ramadan night cricket tournaments to 10-10s to games against randos from Netherlands and Zimbabwe. Fans like @Mamoon want them to play everything. Can’t blame them coz those are the only matches their “sitaarey” can win. This has been going on for ~15 years now. Sohail Tanvir, Wahab Riaz, etc. were the previous generation of crappy bowlers. The new generation has Musa, Rauf, Naseem, etc.

But what that means is that these bowlers who any way lack basic test bowling acumen can’t even bowl long spells due to frequent break downs. All talk on public forums and ridiculously poor performance on the field.

 

[Devadwal]

Pakistanis are used to seeing their players break down due to excessive cricket they expect indians to make similar mistakes. When indians dnt make the mistakes pakistanis did they get frustrated an resut is these kind of threads

They rested Shaheen during England home series and said he dropped because workload management but instead resting he choose to play in BPL this is how workload managed in Pakistan cricket.

 

[Hikaru]

Never took trundling nation's players or fans too seriously. Bumrah and BCCI know what they are doing.

 

[BreadPakoda]

They rested Shaheen during England home series and said he dropped because workload management but instead resting he choose to play in BPL this is how workload managed in Pakistan cricket.

I thought him and Naseem were dropped after giving like a thousand runs in a day and a half against England. Didn’t know they were “rested”. They went on to play in the BPL? Hilarious.

 

[charlie007]

Why do you guys (Indian fans) get triggered so quickly when someone trolls Bumrah? He is not seeking validation from them, he doesn’t even know these people exist!
Just take pride when he performs well and be happy! Why do you find the need to respond to posters who don’t really have much going for them in their own lives and find happiness spending half their lives finding whoever would listen to them on internet forums.

 

[Mamoon]

Cry me a river bud as your wish went for a toss. Said too early.

You are losing this Test. It is another useless, stat-padding 5 fee for Bumrah.

 

[Ab Fan]

You are losing this Test. It is another useless, stat-padding 5 fee for Bumrah.

You can live in your delusional world but like always you will get a reality check again. You got the reality check last game and suddenly changed camp. As the saying is, there is no cure of delusion and hypocrisy and it fits you perfectly.

 

[Buffet]

You are losing this Test. It is another useless, stat-padding 5 fee for Bumrah.

# of 5-fers away in won tests: Top 5 - Marshall, McGrath, Hadlee, Steyn, Bumrah

Bumrah has not played even 50 tests so far. His impact is right up there with the best in history.

 

[mominsaigol]

You can live in your delusional world but like always you will get a reality check again. You got the reality check last game and suddenly changed camp. As the saying is, there is no cure of delusion and hypocrisy and it fits you perfectly.

He didnt say India would lose the 2nd test. He said india is likely winning the tests Bumrah doesnt play in.

 

[frenchcut]

Absolute top draw player. haha this thread is such garbage

 

[Sachin fan]

Clinging on to one bowler will neither erase decades of military-medium nostalgia, nor rewrite the DNA of a pace-starved system

But yeah, why don't you tell us how much you understand the "art" of fast-bowling by studying Agarkar and Prasad

Fans of a team which has a bowler averaging 35+ in tests shouldnt be talking about pace DNA.

Naseem has a worse average than Prasad. Yet Prasad's name is used for mocking but Naseem is hyped by Pakistani fans.

 

[BouncerGuy]

STAY ON TOPIC PLEASE.

NO PERSONAL STUFF

 

[Hitman]

Fans of a team which has a bowler averaging 35+ in tests shouldnt be talking about pace DNA.

Naseem has a worse average than Prasad. Yet Prasad's name is used for mocking but Naseem is hyped by Pakistani fans.

Never knew that statistical info on Naseem Shah. A specialist fast bowler averaging more than 35 is no big deal in my eyes. The big deal however is such a bowler being hyped up by his fans.​

 

[Sachin fan]

Never knew that statistical info on Naseem Shah. A specialist fast bowler averaging more than 35 is no big deal in my eyes. The big deal however is such a bowler being hyped up by his fans.​

Naseen also averages 35 in T20s, only has decent stats in ODIs but even there he is averaging 39 since 2024 and 33 since 2023

 

[Mamoon]

Fans of a team which has a bowler averaging 35+ in tests shouldnt be talking about pace DNA.

Naseem has a worse average than Prasad. Yet Prasad's name is used for mocking but Naseem is hyped by Pakistani fans.

Never knew that statistical info on Naseem Shah. A specialist fast bowler averaging more than 35 is no big deal in my eyes. The big deal however is such a bowler being hyped up by his fans.​

This I totally agree with. Naseem is an awful bowler, one of the worst in the world since his debut.

He has done nothing in 6 years of international cricket but he got hyped because of his fake age and an aesthetic action which is useless without output.

I will definitely take every Indian bowler playing in this Test over Naseem.

 

[Hellion]

Bumrah will try a bit harder to chuck this morning.

Should take lessons from Akhtar in how to chuck and tamper the ball.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Fans of a team which has a bowler averaging 35+ in tests shouldnt be talking about pace DNA.

Naseem has a worse average than Prasad. Yet Prasad's name is used for mocking but Naseem is hyped by Pakistani fans.

And a country that has produced Ashok Dinda and Vinay Kumar should? I guess Bumrah coming on to the scene has given you amnesia about the last few decades.

Btw, Prasad is in the upper echelon of Indian pacers. He is part of the gold standard of Indian fast-bowling.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Should take lessons from Akhtar in how to chuck and tamper the ball.

Shoaib was not s chucker, and neither is Bumrah

Both have elbow hyperextension

 

[Hitman]

And a country that has produced Ashok Dinda and Vinay Kumar should? I guess Bumrah coming on to the scene has given you amnesia about the last few decades.

Btw, Prasad is in the upper echelon of Indian pacers. He is part of the gold standard of Indian fast-bowling.

Has India produced a specialist bowler worse than Mohammad Sami? I'm pretty sure most of us posters can manage a Test bowling average less than 50 runs

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Has India produced a specialist bowler worse than Mohammad Sami? I'm pretty sure most of us posters can manage a Test bowling average less than 50 runs

Good to know what your standard for success is. Makes sense for a country that has given prolonged runs to the likes of RP Singh, Ashish Nehra and Ajit Agarkar.

Picking one terrible bowler won't change the fact that Pakistan has also produced bowlers like Fazal Mehmood, Imran, Wasim, Waqar, Shoaib, Sarfaraz Nawaz, Asif..

 

[Hellion]

Shoaib was not s chucker, and neither is Bumrah

Both have elbow hyperextension

True but that doesn't seem to stop the snide accusations on here.

 

[Sachin fan]

And a country that has produced Ashok Dinda and Vinay Kumar should? I guess Bumrah coming on to the scene has given you amnesia about the last few decades.

Btw, Prasad is in the upper echelon of Indian pacers. He is part of the gold standard of Indian fast-bowling.

You are doing the same thing you are accusing others of, just naming random bowlers.

We literally have shami, Bhuvi etc averaging around 25, we have match winners like yadav, siraj, so how exactly is prasad the gold standard?

Here's another stat for you



Top 10 wicket takers in SENA, Indians have 5 in the top 8, pakistan has only 1, other 2 are spinners.

Shami, zaheer, ishant and Kapil are ahead of imran and waqar. Bumrah is one followed by Wasim at 2.

How many pakistani bowlers have crossed 200 wickets last few decades? How many have crossed 150?

Having 3 good fast bowlers in your entire history doesnt make you a fast bowling factory or fast bowling DNA no matter how much fake hype you build for bowlers like Amir or Naseem. India has had more decent fast bowlers than you overall.

 

[NishanKonar]

Never knew that statistical info on Naseem Shah. A specialist fast bowler averaging more than 35 is no big deal in my eyes. The big deal however is such a bowler being hyped up by his fans.​

Naseem Shah is poor man's version of Muhammad Sami. Just runs in and tries to bowl fast- no control on length & line. except Sami actually bowled quick ( 90-95 mph ). Naseem bowls at 85-88 mph

I have a feeling he gets so many chances bcoz of his good looks & hairstyle ( as a marketing ploy to attract more female fans )

 

[Devadwal]

And a country that has produced Ashok Dinda and Vinay Kumar should? I guess Bumrah coming on to the scene has given you amnesia about the last few decades.

Btw, Prasad is in the upper echelon of Indian pacers. He is part of the gold standard of Indian fast-bowling.

Forst produce a 200 test wicket taker Pacers it have been 36 year since no Pakistani bowlers debuts who get the 200 test wickets ( last Pakistani Pacer was Waqar who taken that feat and he debuted in 1989).

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

You are doing the same thing you are accusing others of, just naming random bowlers.

We literally have shami, Bhuvi etc averaging around 25, we have match winners like yadav, siraj, so how exactly is prasad the gold standard?

Here's another stat for you

View attachment 156044

Top 10 wicket takers in SENA, Indians have 5 in the top 8, pakistan has only 1, other 2 are spinners.

Shami, zaheer, ishant and Kapil are ahead of imran and waqar. Bumrah is one followed by Wasim at 2.

How many pakistani bowlers have crossed 200 wickets last few decades? How many have crossed 150?

Having 3 good fast bowlers in your entire history doesnt make you a fast bowling factory or fast bowling DNA no matter how much fake hype you build for bowlers like Amir or Naseem. India has had more decent fast bowlers than you overall.

The fact that you think that guys like Zaheer, Ishant, Umesh can even be compared to the likes of Wasim, Waqar, Imran as fast-bowlers....(even someone like Asif) just because they have more wickets in certain places says all that needs to be said about how much you understand fast-bowling.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Forst produce a 200 test wicket taker Pacers it have been 36 year since no Pakistani bowlers debuts who get the 200 test wickets ( last Pakistani Pacer was Waqar who taken that feat and he debuted in 1989).

Won’t think twice before taking Shami over Waqar in my team.

In present day cricket with dozens of cameras someone like Waqar wouldn’t last a series without getting banned.

 

[NishanKonar]

Forst produce a 200 test wicket taker Pacers it have been 36 year since no Pakistani bowlers debuts who get the 200 test wickets ( last Pakistani Pacer was Waqar who taken that feat and he debuted in 1989).

Pakistan stopped producing 200 test wicket bowlers once umpires and tv cameras became more vigilant on ball tampering
In the 90s forget Wasim & Waqar . Even the likes of Abdul Razaq and Azhar Mehmood were swinging the old ball miles. All that stopped in the 2000s. No wonder Azhar Mehmood fizzled out quickly and Razaq became more of a specialist hitter

 

[Sachin fan]

The fact that you think that guys like Zaheer, Ishant, Umesh can even be compared to the likes of Wasim, Waqar, Imran as fast-bowlers....(even someone like Asif) just because they have more wickets in certain places says all that needs to be said about how much you understand fast-bowling.

Yet they still have more wickets than them. Now let's agree wasim waqar and imran were way better. Ok, that's 3 bowlers, who are acknowledged as greats, where are the bowlers after that for so many decades?

You can hype Asif all you want and he started well but so did 100 other bowlers who later faced away.

As I said, having 3 great bowlers in your entire history doesnt make you a pace factory. Particularly since it's been 4 decades since they debuted.

 

[mominsaigol]

Yet they still have more wickets than them. Now let's agree wasim waqar and imran were way better. Ok, that's 3 bowlers, who are acknowledged as greats, where are the bowlers after that for so many decades?

You can hype Asif all you want and he started well but so did 100 other bowlers who later faced away.

As I said, having 3 great bowlers in your entire history doesnt make you a pace factory. Particularly since it's been 4 decades since they debuted.

Australia has been a pace factory followed by SA followed by NZ who despite not having atg names minus a few have had decent pace options nonetheless.

WI pre 2004 was also a pace factory

India, Pakistan and England have only had 1-3 Good pacers or ATG bowlers. Beyond that there countries have been rubbish at producing pacers.

It seems Australia might be following suit due to their current talent crises.

 

[sweep_shot]

Australia has been a pace factory followed by SA followed by NZ who despite not having atg names minus a few have had decent pace options nonetheless.

WI pre 2004 was also a pace factory

India, Pakistan and England have only had 1-3 Good pacers or ATG bowlers. Beyond that there countries have been rubbish at producing pacers.

It seems Australia might be following suit due to their current talent crises.

England also had a pace factory --> Anderson, Broad, Flintoff, Harmison, Hoggard, Caddick, Tremlett etc.

It is only recently when England is struggling in finding good pacers.

 

[saimayubera]

Good to know what your standard for success is. Makes sense for a country that has given prolonged runs to the likes of RP Singh, Ashish Nehra and Ajit Agarkar.

Picking one terrible bowler won't change the fact that Pakistan has also produced bowlers like Fazal Mehmood, Imran, Wasim, Waqar, Shoaib, Sarfaraz Nawaz, Asif..

Doesn't matter how many good fast bowlers if the BEST one is Indian.

And Sarfaraz Nawaz averages 32. Guys like Srinath, Zaheer, Ishant, Umesh, Siraj have better stats than him.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Doesn't matter how many good fast bowlers if the BEST one is Indian.

And Sarfaraz Nawaz averages 32. Guys like Srinath, Zaheer, Ishant, Umesh, Siraj have better stats than him.

Sarfaraz Nawaz invented reverse-swing. What great contribution have any of these guys made to fast-bowling lol? If you want to glorify your bang average, steady eddy bowlers, keep glorifying them. Just don't expect anyone else to jump onboard.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Yet they still have more wickets than them. Now let's agree wasim waqar and imran were way better. Ok, that's 3 bowlers, who are acknowledged as greats, where are the bowlers after that for so many decades?

You can hype Asif all you want and he started well but so did 100 other bowlers who later faced away.

As I said, having 3 great bowlers in your entire history doesnt make you a pace factory. Particularly since it's been 4 decades since they debuted.

Pakistan has always produced express pacers. That’s why you hear terms like “pace factory” thrown around for countries like Pakistan, South Africa, and Australia.

Now contrast that with India. In a country of 1.4 billion, I can count on one hand the number of genuine express pacers produced in the last 30 years. The desperation to make a street-level spraygun like Umran Malik into a thing speaks volumes about the dearth of express pacers that still exists in India.

India, to its credit, produces the solid, dependable types---line-and-length bowlers who stick to the script and get the job done. They’re like your dad’s old sedan: steady, efficient, built to last. But you can’t compare that to a roaring sports car. It may not go the distance, but when it hits the road, everyone stops and stares.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Sarfaraz Nawaz invented reverse-swing. What great contribution have any of these guys made to fast-bowling lol? If you want to glorify your bang average, steady eddy bowlers, keep glorifying them. Just don't expect anyone else to jump onboard.

We all know how Sarfaraz Nawaz “invented” reverse swing. He was another crook who benefitted from the lack of vigilance on ball tampering.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Pakistan has always produced express pacers. That’s why you hear terms like “pace factory” thrown around for countries like Pakistan, South Africa, and Australia.

Now contrast that with India. In a country of 1.4 billion, I can count on one hand the number of genuine express pacers produced in the last 30 years. The desperation to make a street-level spraygun like Umran Malik into a thing speaks volumes about the dearth of express pacers that still exists in India.

India, to its credit, produces the solid, dependable types---line-and-length bowlers who stick to the script and get the job done. They’re like your dad’s old sedan: steady, efficient, built to last. But you can’t compare that to a roaring sports car. It may not go the distance, but when it hits the road, everyone stops and stares.

India, for the longest time, was known for batting. Let's not pretend the 90s and 2000s were full of Indian pacers terrorizing teams. Only in the last decade has India really invested in its bowling and it's finally showing. But we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves.

It's easy for these new IPL kids to throw shade at Pakistani bowlers now, but back in the day, we were straight-up jealous of Pakistan's bowling attacks. Anyone denying that today is just lying to themselves. There is a reason Pakistan still hold that head-to-head record.

 

[BreadPakoda]

It’s clear that certain Pakistanis want to live in the past forever.

However, this isn’t a thread on Pakistan’s legacy. It’s about suggesting a bowler to play non stop cricket which indicates lack of understanding of the sport. And which is why Pakistani bowlers suffer from frequent breakdowns.

 

[saimayubera]

Sarfaraz Nawaz invented reverse-swing. What great contribution have any of these guys made to fast-bowling lol? If you want to glorify your bang average, steady eddy bowlers, keep glorifying them. Just don't expect anyone else to jump onboard.

"Invented" reverse swing yet has a higher average and lower wickets than all of them.

And those guys have won more away series than Sarfaraz Nawaz did (individually not collectively).

The only ones who are not jumping on board are salty Pakistanis who have lost the one thing they had over India in cricket - superior fast bowlers.

 

[saimayubera]

Pakistan has always produced express pacers. That’s why you hear terms like “pace factory” thrown around for countries like Pakistan, South Africa, and Australia.

Now contrast that with India. In a country of 1.4 billion, I can count on one hand the number of genuine express pacers produced in the last 30 years. The desperation to make a street-level spraygun like Umran Malik into a thing speaks volumes about the dearth of express pacers that still exists in India.

India, to its credit, produces the solid, dependable types---line-and-length bowlers who stick to the script and get the job done. They’re like your dad’s old sedan: steady, efficient, built to last. But you can’t compare that to a roaring sports car. It may not go the distance, but when it hits the road, everyone stops and stares.

No one calls Pakistan a pace factory anymore.

They are like the factories in rust belt USA - defunct for decades.

SA currently have Rabada. Aus currently have Cummins. Pak has Shaheen/Naseem who have ZERO 5fers vs SENA and have won ZERO matches in SENA.

And for all of Pakistan's history, they have never produced anyone as good as Bumrah. Doesn't matter how many good pace bowlers you had in the PAST, when the BEST of them all is an Indian.

Even Scyld Berry, who is decidedly not an Indian ranks Bumrah as no 1.

Ranked: The 30 greatest fast bowlers in Test history

After attending more than 500 Tests, Telegraph Sport’s sage runs the rule on the best of the quicks

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[saimayubera]

India, for the longest time, was known for batting. Let's not pretend the 90s and 2000s were full of Indian pacers terrorizing teams. Only in the last decade has India really invested in its bowling and it's finally showing. But we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves.

It's easy for these new IPL kids to throw shade at Pakistani bowlers now, but back in the day, we were straight-up jealous of Pakistan's bowling attacks. Anyone denying that today is just lying to themselves. There is a reason Pakistan still hold that head-to-head record.

Yeah. And that reason is no bilateral cricket.

Pakistan for all it's boasting never had a pace legacy as good as the West Indies or even achievements.

Pak haven't even been able to produce a Kemar Roach type which WI has.

Reality is in spite of all the bluster, Pakistan has the same achievements as a cricketing nation like Sri Lanka, a country with pacers like Dilhara Fernando.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

We all know how Sarfaraz Nawaz “invented” reverse swing. He was another crook who benefitted from the lack of vigilance on ball tampering.

Wow. I guess this is what jealousy sounds like lmao.

Here's the thing, 20 years from now nobody will give a rat's a$$ about who Umesh Yadav or Ishant Sharma were, let alone what they did. But when people ask who created reverse-swing, they will say Sarfaraz Nawaz. That's what creating a legacy sounds like. Something Indian fast-bowlers know nothing about..

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

No one calls Pakistan a pace factory anymore.

They are like the factories in rust belt USA - defunct for decades.

SA currently have Rabada. Aus currently have Cummins. Pak has Shaheen/Naseem who have ZERO 5fers vs SENA and have won ZERO matches in SENA.

And for all of Pakistan's history, they have never produced anyone as good as Bumrah. Doesn't matter how many good pace bowlers you had in the PAST, when the BEST of them all is an Indian.

Even Scyld Berry, who is decidedly not an Indian ranks Bumrah as no 1.

Ranked: The 30 greatest fast bowlers in Test history

After attending more than 500 Tests, Telegraph Sport’s sage runs the rule on the best of the quicks

www.telegraph.co.uk

Yeah Bumrah, a bowler with just over 200 test wickets is better than Wasim Akram. A guy with almost twice the amount of test wickets as Bumrah, and someone who is widely regarded as one of the greatest to have ever played the game.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

"Invented" reverse swing yet has a higher average and lower wickets than all of them.

And those guys have won more away series than Sarfaraz Nawaz did (individually not collectively).

The only ones who are not jumping on board are salty Pakistanis who have lost the one thing they had over India in cricket - superior fast bowlers.

Wow. I guess this is what jealousy sounds like lmao.

Here's the thing, 20 years from now nobody cares about who Umesh Yadav or Ishant Sharma were, let alone what they did. But when people ask who created reverse-swing, they will say Sarfaraz Nawaz. That's what creating a legacy sounds like. Something Indian fast-bowlers know nothing about..

 

[Mamoon]

Bumrah with 200 Test wickets and no ODI WC is better than Wasim. The Indian delusion is laughable

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

India, for the longest time, was known for batting. Let's not pretend the 90s and 2000s were full of Indian pacers terrorizing teams. Only in the last decade has India really invested in its bowling and it's finally showing. But we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves.

It's easy for these new IPL kids to throw shade at Pakistani bowlers now, but back in the day, we were straight-up jealous of Pakistan's bowling attacks. Anyone denying that today is just lying to themselves. There is a reason Pakistan still hold that head-to-head record.

It seems like alot of people here think they can play revisionist history just because they have Bumrah now.

Doesn't change the last however many decades of military-medium nostalgia

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

The inferiority complex among certain Indian posters is unreal. They have the best fast-bowler in the world. You'd think that would be enough. But no, they still wanna play revisionist history. As if India didn't have one of the worst pace attacks in the world for most of the 1990s and 2000s. Even a large part of the 2010s. Here are some facts:

- Pakistan has a far greater and richer legacy of fast-bowling than India
- Nobody thinks of Umesh Yadav, Ishant Sharma or even Kapil Dev when people talking about 'fast-bowling'
- India still struggles to produce genuine express pacers. Right now they have two: one should be playing gully cricket while the other is injury-prone
- No bowler India has ever produced is better than Wasim Akram
- Pakistan still produces more genuine, young, express pacers than India, and it's not even close
- India's legacy of fast-bowling is producing steady, reliable fast-medium or medium fast bowlers. Bumrah is an exception to the case.

If you have trouble swallowing this reality then that's too bad. Go touch grass or something lol.

 

[mominsaigol]

The inferiority complex among certain Indian posters is unreal. They have the best fast-bowler in the world. You'd think that would be enough. But no, they still wanna play revisionist history. As if India didn't have one of the worst pace attacks in the world for most of the 1990s and 2000s. Even a large part of the 2010s. Here are some facts:

- Pakistan has a far greater and richer legacy of fast-bowling than India
- Nobody thinks of Umesh Yadav, Ishant Sharma or even Kapil Dev when people talking about 'fast-bowling'
- India still struggles to produce genuine express pacers. Right now they have two: one should be playing gully cricket while the other is injury-prone
- No bowler India has ever produced is better than Wasim Akram
- Pakistan still produces more genuine, young, express pacers than India, and it's not even close
- India's legacy of fast-bowling is producing steady, reliable fast-medium or medium fast bowlers. Bumrah is an exception to the case.

If you have trouble swallowing this reality then that's too bad. Go touch grass or something lol.

Its very easy for them to rewrite history. Anyone can do when you are a compulsive liar, but it is in their genes.

Look how they rewrote the history of Azhruddin and Dhoni through movies?

The Dhoni and azruddin movie goes as far to even fabricate and lie about their cricket careers and they claim its taking creative liberties.

While I can understand taking liberties in a film about of cricket, I cant get behind lying about the records themsleves.

Even the social network which outright fabricated the drama still ensured that the timeline of Facebook was kept accurate.

In azhar, at the start of the film they outright lie about azhar's century claiming it was a historic moment for him and he won the test match for india.

It was so bad that a youtuber outright exposed the film showcasing that India brutally lost that test match and series. It was so comical and Azhar's century was one of the worst knocks. It was a painful century to watch one where he struggled immensely to achieve and multiple catch drops got him their.

Then the Dhoni movie outright fabricated some of his Odi knocks which never ever occurred. They gave him centuries that never happened including an overseas century which the entire media knows that the likes of R Ashwin have achieved yet Dhoni hasn't.

Its not just cricket films. Dangal outright fabricated the matchups and lied as well. The truth is the girls got their butts handed to them, they had to lose weight and compete in a lower division to win. Their coach never demanded a gold, he was happy with a silver which the movie ended up creating a make belive character in order to make Amir Khan look good.

Case in Point this is a country that literally spends millions of dollars to spread lies. So why would a poster hesitate to do It for free?

 

[Devadwal]

Again a reminder - Bumrah is better than any Pakistani bowler in the history of test cricket

 

[BreadPakoda]

It’s sad but not surprising seeing so many Pak posters living in the past. They are clearly rattled by Indian cricket’s success, especially the last 2 ICC trophies and decided to take a Time Machine back to 80s and stay there.

Also lol @ people remembering a nobody like Sarfaraz Nawaz. Haha

 

[saimayubera]

Yeah Bumrah, a bowler with just over 200 test wickets is better than Wasim Akram. A guy with almost twice the amount of test wickets as Bumrah, and someone who is widely regarded as one of the greatest to have ever played the game.

Akram is overrated by Pakistanis.

He is great but all non Pakistanis put him in the second tier of ATG fast bowlers alongside the likes of Pollock, Donald, Lillee, Cummins etc.

Bumrah is aiming for tier 1 with McGrath, Steyn, Marshall, Ambrose, Hadlee etc.

Bumrah ALREADY has SAME number of 5fers in SENAW as Wasim (13 each).

Bumrah ALREADY has MORE number of winning 5fers in SENAW as Wasim (7 vs 5).

And if your argument is WI is weak these days, Eng and NZ were also much weaker in Wasim's era.

 

[saimayubera]

Bumrah with 200 Test wickets and no ODI WC is better than Wasim. The Indian delusion is laughable

I mean Sreesanth has an ODI WC and Waqar/Shoaib etc don't.

And Bumrah has a T20WC where he was MoT.

 

[saimayubera]

Wow. I guess this is what jealousy sounds like lmao.

Here's the thing, 20 years from now nobody will give a rat's a$$ about who Umesh Yadav or Ishant Sharma were, let alone what they did. But when people ask who created reverse-swing, they will say Sarfaraz Nawaz. That's what creating a legacy sounds like. Something Indian fast-bowlers know nothing about..

No one except deluded Pakistanis cares about "Sarfaraz Nawaz" NOW. Those two have won multiple test series in Aus and WI, which was something Sarfaraz never achieved in his career.

 

[saimayubera]

The inferiority complex among certain Indian posters is unreal. They have the best fast-bowler in the world. You'd think that would be enough. But no, they still wanna play revisionist history. As if India didn't have one of the worst pace attacks in the world for most of the 1990s and 2000s. Even a large part of the 2010s. Here are some facts:

- Pakistan has a far greater and richer legacy of fast-bowling than India
- Nobody thinks of Umesh Yadav, Ishant Sharma or even Kapil Dev when people talking about 'fast-bowling'
- India still struggles to produce genuine express pacers. Right now they have two: one should be playing gully cricket while the other is injury-prone
- No bowler India has ever produced is better than Wasim Akram
- Pakistan still produces more genuine, young, express pacers than India, and it's not even close
- India's legacy of fast-bowling is producing steady, reliable fast-medium or medium fast bowlers. Bumrah is an exception to the case.

If you have trouble swallowing this reality then that's too bad. Go touch grass or something lol.

Yeah, the great Shaheen/Naseem with ZERO 5fers vs SENA and who have won ZERO matches in SENA.

Pakistan fast bowling died years ago.

 

[Mamoon]

I mean Sreesanth has an ODI WC and Waqar/Shoaib etc don't.

And Bumrah has a T20WC where he was MoT.

I will give it to Bumrah though.

He has won Pakistan more trophies than Waqar and Shoaib did.

We will never forget that beautiful no-ball that triggered the biggest thrashing ever in an ICC tournament final.

 

[RidiculousMan]

"A man who has never an ocean will gather the whole village to tell them, that the water (lake) he saw is an ocean."

This is the example of Indian Fans (like the man) and Bumrah (lake) misquoting as the GOAT (ocean).

 

[saimayubera]

I will give it to Bumrah though.

He has won Pakistan more trophies than Waqar and Shoaib did.

We will never forget that beautiful no-ball that triggered the biggest thrashing ever in an ICC tournament final.

That was years ago.

The current CT holders are India who first kicked out Pak out of the tournament and then the tournament out of Pak.

No final hosted since 1996 (Even there a poor Indian team kicked out Pak, the defending champions).

 

[saimayubera]

"A man who has never an ocean will gather the whole village to tell them, that the water (lake) he saw is an ocean."

This is the example of Indian Fans (like the man) and Bumrah (lake) misquoting as the GOAT (ocean).

Pakistan doesn't even have a lake, more like a drain lol.

 

[Mamoon]

That was years ago.

Yes but that assault was timeless. It remains the biggest defeat ever in an ICC tournament and we will always be thankful to Bumrah for that.

The current CT holders are India who first kicked out Pak out of the tournament and then the tournament out of Pak.

No final hosted since 1996 (Even there a poor Indian team kicked out Pak, the defending champions).

View attachment 156056

In spite of doing propaganda over Pakistan’s security, you were the only country that decided to play matches outside Pakistan while no other country bought into your propaganda.

Indians are not smart enough to understand that they actually ended up humiliated themselves with this act.

Anyway, this isn’t a big deal for a country that doesn’t want play bilateral cricket with Pakistan because of solidarity with the martyred soldiers, but the same martyred soldiers are irrelevant when it comes to ICC tournament matches.

As far as Bumrah is concerned, he cannot be considered greater than Wasim or even Starc if he doesn’t win an ODI World Cup.

He had a chance in 2023 but he bottled it in spite of India controlling, influencing and manipulating every aspect of the World Cup.

Wasim’s 92 final performance is bigger than Bumrah’s entire career.

Moreover, the way India went over the top with their T20 WC celebrations was comical. No country has ever celebrated a T20 World Cup like that. Not even Pakistan.

You shameless lot hosted a packed house event at the Wankhede and even invited that idiot PM of yours, I mean who does that. As if that would make the world forget about the beautiful choke in the 2023 final. It was a cringe fest.

 

[saimayubera]

Yes but that assault was timeless. It remains the biggest defeat ever in an ICC tournament and we will always be thankful to Bumrah for that.

In spite of doing propaganda over Pakistan’s security, you were the only country that decided to play matches outside Pakistan while no other country bought into your propaganda.

Indians are not smart enough to understand that they actually ended up humiliated themselves with this act.

Anyway, this isn’t a big deal for a country that doesn’t want play bilateral cricket with Pakistan because of solidarity with the martyred soldiers, but the same martyred soldiers are irrelevant when it comes to ICC tournament matches.

As far as Bumrah is concerned, he cannot be considered greater than Wasim or even Starc if he doesn’t win an ODI World Cup.

He had a chance in 2023 but he bottled it in spite of India controlling, influencing and manipulating every aspect of the World Cup.

Wasim’s 92 final performance is bigger than Bumrah’s entire career.

Moreover, the way India went over the top with their T20 WC celebrations was comical. No country has ever celebrated a T20 World Cup like that. Not even Pakistan.

You shameless lot hosted a packed house event at the Wankhede and even invited that idiot PM of yours, I mean who does that. As if that would make the world forget about the beautiful choke in the 2023 final. It was a cringe fest.

Lol Pakistan shouldn't be taking about ODI WCs. One ODI WC semi this century, tied with Kenya.

Last time Pakistan won an ODI WC, Imran Khan was the captain and not in jail lol.

 

[BreadPakoda]

That was years ago.

The current CT holders are India who first kicked out Pak out of the tournament and then the tournament out of Pak.

No final hosted since 1996 (Even there a poor Indian team kicked out Pak, the defending champions).

View attachment 156056

This is the biggest difference I see between the last time I was on this site a year ago and now. The way India won CT was like a dagger ripping through Pak fans’ hearts. This will take several decades to recover from unless PCT suddenly starts performing well and wins something equivalent in this style.