The Pakistani-British Youth

[Wasim_Waqar]

I sit on the fence with this one.

But I can say this thread proves me right- mainland Pakistanis do discriminate towards Kashmiris (azad kashmir)- no wonder they've had elements bribed by Hashim Qureshi to ask for an indepedent state!!

 

[Gujar]

I sit on the fence with this one.

But I can say this thread proves me right- mainland Pakistanis do discriminate towards Kashmiris (azad kashmir)- no wonder they've had elements bribed by Hashim Qureshi to ask for an indepedent state!!

Your generalising is just as bad as those that are stereotyping all Mirpuris to be scumbags. Usman has stated a lot of 'facts' in his post, so I would like to post a few of my own -

1. FACT - Pakistani youth whether Mirpuri, Punjabi, Pathan etc. are underperforming massively in UK schools and are amongst the lowest overall.

2. FACT - Pakistani youth whether Mirpuri, Punjabi, Pathan etc. are involved in criminal activities at the highest end in UK and even places such as Norway.

3. FACT - Pakistani families live on average in some of the worst living conditions in the UK.

This all has to do with one common factor, poverty. My dad came over to UK in 1970 at the age of just 14. We have a lot of land back home in Punjab, we are 'zamindars' but over here my dad has worked his entire life in mills, factories and driving taxis. It is the same story for virtually every first generation and even second generation Pakistani in the UK. Every parent wants the best for their children but the problems are down to socioeconomic factors, which have accumulated over a long period of time and unfortunately will be very hard to totally reverse.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

An honest Taxi driver in this country does not earn more than a teacher (salary of a teacher ranges from around £23k-£70k for headmasters

I am not talking about headmasters, taxi drivers earn up to £1000 a week honestly and thats not a lie. If you have had bad experiences with some guy who lives on your street, it doesnt really back up your argument that all mirpuris are dodgy tax drivers. Account fiddling goes on by all self employed people and you would be better placed letting your anger out on the millionaires who choose to 'live' in tax havens in monaco etc while doing their business in england.

And lets not blame it on the lack of opportunities or social deprevation. Some of the highest achievers in the sub-group 'British Asians' are the offspring of the East African communities. Their parents were kicked out of Uganda by Amin the 1970's with **** all, yet they still established thriving. educated communities through hardwork and education. Massively outachieving their South Asian brothers despite have arriving a decade later - with no money/assets - and no existing community support to rely on.

The asians you are talking of were 'lording' it up in uganda and living like kings over the indigenous black people which is why they were rightfully kicked out. I dont see the correlation between them and illiterate kashmiris/pakistanis from poor villages.

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

Excuse me for pointing out the obvious, but if taxi drivers have such a hard life and are paid so little, then surely they could join other professions which pay similar low wages could they not? As I have already pointed out, there is a reason why there are so many more Mirpuri taxi drivers than bus drivers. And taxi drivers aren't stupid, they work night shifts voluntarily because it pays even more.

BUT did you not say the following?

It's far too easy to play the system in this country and that is why so many of these stupid people come here.

Let me give you this example: There is a Mirpuri taxi driver living on my street. He owns not one, not two but three houses. He has no mortgage on any of the properties, and two are rented out. His elderly mother lives with him. He applied for a council grant to build an extension to his house so that his mother doesn't have to climb up the stairs. Because he claims to earn below the minimum taxable income level, he was eligible for the full grant. With that graunt, he built a double story 3 bedroom, living room, one bathroom and an en suit extension to his house. He openly admits misguiding the government with tax claims and thieving full benefits off the state. Please do tell me GA, if this is not luxury living off the tax payer then what is?

Yes that is luxury living BUT whats your point? I could give you examples of Taxi Drivers that bust their nuts and they dont have a luxurious life

This GA was just outrageous "i dont really blame people for trying to earn as much as they can whilst they can." Most honest people work really, really hard - many work much harder than any taxi driver could ever imagine. Does that then mean that we might as well all thieve from the state whilst we can? If not, then why? Why is it that you think Mirpuri taxi drivers come under some exception?

and you know that how exactly?

I never said Mirpuri taxi drivers come under some exception - the point is a lot of these guys are uneducated and do this job since they dont have many other options.

As for thieving from the state - its not something i have done BUT taxi drivers (Mirpuri and otherwise) do take advantage of this.



I absolutely despise it when people claim that what these people do is somehow ok and then if you disagree with it, then you hold a prejudice against them. And then you tell me to calm down GA!

I tell you to calm down because you seem to be making it into a Mirpuri thing when im telling you that is not the case. Its a taxi driver thing, infact i will go beyond that, its a cash job thing. Up and down the country you will find people that do work in an industry that pays cash do bend the rules and take advantage of benefits. The self-employed sector is pretty big - why you seem to single out Mirpuri's is beyond me?


And no GA its not a Pakistani thing in general. My parents came from mainland Pakistan with nothing and they worked hard for everything they got. The majority of mainland Pakistanis I've come across are not taxi drivers.

What are you on about? I said that its a TAXI DRIVER thing - and it just so happens to be that majority of Pakistani's in the UK are from Mirpur.

As for your parents coming to this country with nothing and working hard - do you think it was any different for the Mirpuri's that came here in the 60's and 70's? My grandad came here with nothing and he worked his damned hardest for us and this was the same for thousands of other Mirpuri's

.

 

[jaspa888]

The asians you are talking of were 'lording' it up in uganda and living like kings over the indigenous black people which is why they were rightfully kicked out. I dont see the correlation between them and illiterate kashmiris/pakistanis from poor villages.

I hate it when people do selective quoting to suit their agenda. It shows a distinct lack of class in that they are struggling to put their point across, so will use any means necessary to attempt to do so.

The point you seem unable to grasp is that my comparison was based on how the two respective groups (Mirpuris/Paks and Ugandan Asians) had adapted and progressed in this country. Neither came with much in terms of wealth/assets, but the Pakistanis actually had an advantage over their African brothers in that they had a ten year head start, and also an existing community base of which to rely on.

As an aside, why was it 'rightful' for the Ugandan Asians to be kicked out of their country? It wasnt inherited, exploitative wealth they had, but assets acquired as a result of sheer hard work. I assume then that you also advocate the indigenous white British people 'rightfully' kicking out the British Indians for accumulating wealth in this country...

 

[Gujar]

I hate it when people do selective quoting to suit their agenda. It shows a distinct lack of class in that they are struggling to put their point across, so will use any means necessary to attempt to do so.

The point you seem unable to grasp is that my comparison was based on how the two respective groups (Mirpuris/Paks and Ugandan Asians) had adapted and progressed in this country. Neither came with much in terms of wealth/assets, but the Pakistanis actually had an advantage over their African brothers in that they had a ten year head start, and also an existing community base of which to rely on.

As an aside, why was it 'rightful' for the Ugandan Asians to be kicked out of their country? It wasnt inherited, exploitative wealth they had, but assets acquired as a result of sheer hard work. I assume then that you also advocate the indigenous white British people 'rightfully' kicking out the British Indians for accumulating wealth in this country...

How the hell have you quoted me on something I never said?

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Neither came with much in terms of wealth/assets, but the Pakistanis actually had an advantage over their African brothers in that they had a ten year head start, and also an existing community base of which to rely on.

The ugandan asians were coming from a place where they were stooges of the british empire and were well educated etc, there's a big difference.

As an aside, why was it 'rightful' for the Ugandan Asians to be kicked out of their country? It wasnt inherited, exploitative wealth they had, but assets acquired as a result of sheer hard work. I assume then that you also advocate the indigenous white British people 'rightfully' kicking out the British Indians for accumulating wealth in this country...

The same way its right for mugabe to have kicked out the white farmers in zimbabwe .

 

[Liberty]

The same way its right for mugabe to have kicked out the white farmers in zimbabwe .

No it's not.

 

[jaspa888]

How the hell have you quoted me on something I never said?

Sorry yaar. It was meant for kashmiri.

 

[jaspa888]

The ugandan asians were coming from a place where they were stooges of the british empire and were well educated etc, there's a big difference.

Stop talking ****. The Ugandan Asians were merchant class, and few were educated - especially the ones who came to UK. The educated ones moved to other East African nations. The real success stories are the offsprings of the Ugandan Asians in the UK.

The same way its right for mugabe to have kicked out the white farmers in zimbabwe .

You are either ignorant or deluded if you believe Mugabe's actions are justified. He has destroyed the agriculture of Africa's once richest country by confiscating the farms from competent white farmers, and giving them to his cronies. These cronies know **** all about farming, decimating the food production in the country. He even puts Zardari to shame.

 

[Lazer]

I am from an educated family both of my parents were well educated and my grand parents. My dads spoken English was better than most of my teachers at school and he had high expectations of me. That didn't stop me from getting involved with a bunch of idiots during my teens and ending up on the dole. There were problems at home which possibly lead to me getting involved with the idiots.

People often think if the parents are educated everything is fine well that certainly wasn't the case in our house. Everything went wrong when my dad got a promotion up north, we left the family base in the South East and ended up in a northern city. I went to a primary school with mostly white kids, I spoke in a posh southern accent and it took me a while to understand the other kids. It wasn't long before the racism started by some of the teachers and other kids. My dad had problems at work with some of his colleagues and that made him more stressed at home. We didn't really fit well in this northern city where most of the Asians were working class Mirpuris and most of the English people were ignorant. My parents made some good family friends who were professionals like them but to be honest they became isolated to a certain extent which didn't help matters at home.

At secondary school I came across these Mirpur side Pakistanis for the first time and started to ape their behaviour along with the black kids behaviour. I also learnt how viciouse they can be when you fall out with them. I basically became a wanabe gangsta heavily influenced by rap music and bit psychologically damaged. I think there are a lot of influences on the youth in this country that have nothing to do with parents. After I left school I noticed that all the Muslim youth had the same dilemas as me. We are Muslim but we are going clubing should we should we not drink alcohol should we chase after white women in short skirts ect. Many did exactly this but felt guilty about doing so which was the same for me. By this time I had developed a heavy northern accent and my behaviour was the same as an avergae northern working class Pakistani sighning on the dole droping out of college courses ect. I had an ambition to go to Uni but that was the same for most of the Mirpur side Pakistanis at college so there was actually no difference between me and them in having that aspiration. I did make it to Uni a bit later than expected and ended up droping out.

I'm now 29 years old and living back in the South East on the dole. My dad left this world without seeing his only son make something of himself but Insha'Allah one day I will. I've also developed seriouse health conditions which doesn't make the task of trying to make something of myself any easier.

I no longer have a heavy northern accent, I'm no longer a wanabe gangsta, I'm very proud of my family background and no well the difference between me and working class Pakistanis both from the Kashmir and Panjab side. How things could have turned out differently had I realised this at a much younger age. I do not know why as a teenager I started aping the working class black, asian and white youth from deprived backgrounds but I have my theories. What my story proves is that there are many issues which determine success and failiure and it's not all to do with which part of Pakistan you are from or which type of family you belong to.

 

[Zaz]

I am from an educated family both of my parents were well educated and my grand parents. My dads spoken English was better than most of my teachers at school and he had high expectations of me. That didn't stop me from getting involved with a bunch of idiots during my teens and ending up on the dole. There were problems at home which possibly lead to me getting involved with the idiots.

People often think if the parents are educated everything is fine well that certainly wasn't the case in our house. Everything went wrong when my dad got a promotion up north, we left the family base in the South East and ended up in a northern city. I went to a primary school with mostly white kids, I spoke in a posh southern accent and it took me a while to understand the other kids. It wasn't long before the racism started by some of the teachers and other kids. My dad had problems at work with some of his colleagues and that made him more stressed at home. We didn't really fit well in this northern city where most of the Asians were working class Mirpuris and most of the English people were ignorant. My parents made some good family friends who were professionals like them but to be honest they became isolated to a certain extent which didn't help matters at home.

At secondary school I came across these Mirpur side Pakistanis for the first time and started to ape their behaviour along with the black kids behaviour. I also learnt how viciouse they can be when you fall out with them. I basically became a wanabe gangsta heavily influenced by rap music and bit psychologically damaged. I think there are a lot of influences on the youth in this country that have nothing to do with parents. After I left school I noticed that all the Muslim youth had the same dilemas as me. We are Muslim but we are going clubing should we should we not drink alcohol should we chase after white women in short skirts ect. Many did exactly this but felt guilty about doing so which was the same for me. By this time I had developed a heavy northern accent and my behaviour was the same as an avergae northern working class Pakistani sighning on the dole droping out of college courses ect. I had an ambition to go to Uni but that was the same for most of the Mirpur side Pakistanis at college so there was actually no difference between me and them in having that aspiration. I did make it to Uni a bit later than expected and ended up droping out.

I'm now 29 years old and living back in the South East on the dole. My dad left this world without seeing his only son make something of himself but Insha'Allah one day I will. I've also developed seriouse health conditions which doesn't make the task of trying to make something of myself any easier.

I no longer have a heavy northern accent, I'm no longer a wanabe gangsta, I'm very proud of my family background and no well the difference between me and working class Pakistanis both from the Kashmir and Panjab side. How things could have turned out differently had I realised this at a much younger age. I do not know why as a teenager I started aping the working class black, asian and white youth from deprived backgrounds but I have my theories. What my story proves is that there are many issues which determine success and failiure and it's not all to do with which part of Pakistan you are from or which type of family you belong to.

You are right. The parents are not always to blame, sometimes there are other factors to blame, its maybe just the kid, the friends he associates with etc etc

However most kids i know that have gone off the rail are because of the parents not giving the kids proper due care and attention. At least one parent is from a village in pakistan, uneducated themselves. They churn out several kids, dont care how kids are doing at school, neither do spend any quality time with their kids or pay any attention to the kids inner feelings and turmoil. They ll marry the kids off to cousinz in pakistan and the vicious circle will continue.

So the points that need to be addressed include:

- Move away from deprived areas
- produce less kids
- Keep an eye on who ur kids associate with
- Encourage kids education
- Spend quality time with kids
- Find suitably educated marriage partners

Until we dont address these issues our future generations will never do well in life

 

[Lazer]

You are right. The parents are not always to blame, sometimes there are other factors to blame, its maybe just the kid, the friends he associates with etc etc

However most kids i know that have gone off the rail are because of the parents not giving the kids proper due care and attention. At least one parent is from a village in pakistan, uneducated themselves. They churn out several kids, dont care how kids are doing at school, neither do spend any quality time with their kids or pay any attention to the kids inner feelings and turmoil. They ll marry the kids off to cousinz in pakistan and the vicious circle will continue.

So the points that need to be addressed include:

- Move away from deprived areas
- produce less kids
- Keep an eye on who ur kids associate with
- Encourage kids education
- Spend quality time with kids
- Find suitably educated marriage partners

Until we dont address these issues our future generations will never do well in life

The main point that needs to be adressed is gangsta rap culture which started in the 1990s and has sent many kids of the rails of all backgrounds. What started as gangsta rap has now become grime and the problem continues. What you don't seem to realise is Pakistanis and Bangladeshis in the UK have developed a sub culture based on black gangsta culture and if you want to be cool and fit in as a British Asian Muslim you generally adopt that culture. Once you've adopted the culture failiure comes a long with it and it's increasingly difficult not to adopt it in the major cities and towns. I useto get bullied at school and dad was usually stressed out at home so me turning to the wanabe gangsta rubbish made me fit in more easily with my peers. Pakistani youth see this is a way to survive because otherwise black youths will kick them around the streets on a daily basis. This is what was happening to me until I adopted the bad boy gangsta rubbish culture.

I think it's the same for a lot of kids and Mirpuri parents are not how you portray them to be. Many are strict and try to give their kids discipline but because of lack of education don't know how to hold school teachers to account don't know how to help with home work. Mainland Pakistani parents are usually good at maths so can help their kids with maths but when it comes to English are in the same boat as Mirpuri parents.

Even my dad who was highly educated useto get angry and start shouting and hiting me over the head for getting maths answers wrong we would be sat at the table for hours some nights going round in circles. I don't blame him he was just trying to do his best for me.

It's not about the area it's about the schools I went to two different State schools both of which were doing well in the league tables both of which had kids from all over the city and many from deprived areas. If parents really want their kids to do well instead of moving they should send their kids to private school. My dad believed in the state system partly because his profession was in the education departement of local government again I don't blame him. If parents want to move they should look at moving out of the major cities and towns into parts of the home counties for instance. Still if parents do that the kids most likely are going to grow up thinking they are white which is not a good thing either. I think Muslim private schools are the way forward and there's some really good ones around now.

 

[James]

All the Brit-Pakistanis I meet are articulate, motivated, qualified professional types, though perhaps that is just because of the circle I move in.

Yes, it's because of the circle you move in.

That said, the majority of the jobless and drug dealers I've known have been white British, so I don't think it's a race thing, just comes down to the kind of person you are.

 

[PakPrince]

There is nothing wrong with selling drugs. I say good luck to drug dealers, drug traffickers and victimless criminals everywhere. They are providing products to the market etc etc


And to the poster who wants increase in integration; why? Why is assimilation good? Why do you care if they assimilate? NO BODY SHOULD HAVE TO assimilate if they don't want to because people should be free to choose how they live as long as they don't hurt anyone else.

If someone doesnt want to intergrate into his or her own adopted country then why did they go there in the first place? Why didnt they just stay back in the land of their parents?

 

[BMW Power]

I am from an educated family both of my parents were well educated and my grand parents. My dads spoken English was better than most of my teachers at school and he had high expectations of me. That didn't stop me from getting involved with a bunch of idiots during my teens and ending up on the dole. There were problems at home which possibly lead to me getting involved with the idiots.

People often think if the parents are educated everything is fine well that certainly wasn't the case in our house. Everything went wrong when my dad got a promotion up north, we left the family base in the South East and ended up in a northern city. I went to a primary school with mostly white kids, I spoke in a posh southern accent and it took me a while to understand the other kids. It wasn't long before the racism started by some of the teachers and other kids. My dad had problems at work with some of his colleagues and that made him more stressed at home. We didn't really fit well in this northern city where most of the Asians were working class Mirpuris and most of the English people were ignorant. My parents made some good family friends who were professionals like them but to be honest they became isolated to a certain extent which didn't help matters at home.

At secondary school I came across these Mirpur side Pakistanis for the first time and started to ape their behaviour along with the black kids behaviour. I also learnt how viciouse they can be when you fall out with them. I basically became a wanabe gangsta heavily influenced by rap music and bit psychologically damaged. I think there are a lot of influences on the youth in this country that have nothing to do with parents. After I left school I noticed that all the Muslim youth had the same dilemas as me. We are Muslim but we are going clubing should we should we not drink alcohol should we chase after white women in short skirts ect. Many did exactly this but felt guilty about doing so which was the same for me. By this time I had developed a heavy northern accent and my behaviour was the same as an avergae northern working class Pakistani sighning on the dole droping out of college courses ect. I had an ambition to go to Uni but that was the same for most of the Mirpur side Pakistanis at college so there was actually no difference between me and them in having that aspiration. I did make it to Uni a bit later than expected and ended up droping out.

I'm now 29 years old and living back in the South East on the dole. My dad left this world without seeing his only son make something of himself but Insha'Allah one day I will. I've also developed seriouse health conditions which doesn't make the task of trying to make something of myself any easier.

I no longer have a heavy northern accent, I'm no longer a wanabe gangsta, I'm very proud of my family background and no well the difference between me and working class Pakistanis both from the Kashmir and Panjab side. How things could have turned out differently had I realised this at a much younger age. I do not know why as a teenager I started aping the working class black, asian and white youth from deprived backgrounds but I have my theories. What my story proves is that there are many issues which determine success and failiure and it's not all to do with which part of Pakistan you are from or which type of family you belong to.

Sad to here about your past yet glad that you learned from your mistakes. Introspection is a quality which not everybody is able to attain. Its never too late. You are on the right track. Go out and get that tertiary education. All the best

 

[UP]

The main point that needs to be adressed is gangsta rap culture which started in the 1990s and has sent many kids of the rails of all backgrounds. What started as gangsta rap has now become grime and the problem continues. What you don't seem to realise is Pakistanis and Bangladeshis in the UK have developed a sub culture based on black gangsta culture and if you want to be cool and fit in as a British Asian Muslim you generally adopt that culture. Once you've adopted the culture failiure comes a long with it and it's increasingly difficult not to adopt it in the major cities and towns. I useto get bullied at school and dad was usually stressed out at home so me turning to the wanabe gangsta rubbish made me fit in more easily with my peers. Pakistani youth see this is a way to survive because otherwise black youths will kick them around the streets on a daily basis. This is what was happening to me until I adopted the bad boy gangsta rubbish culture.

I think it's the same for a lot of kids and Mirpuri parents are not how you portray them to be. Many are strict and try to give their kids discipline but because of lack of education don't know how to hold school teachers to account don't know how to help with home work. Mainland Pakistani parents are usually good at maths so can help their kids with maths but when it comes to English are in the same boat as Mirpuri parents.

Even my dad who was highly educated useto get angry and start shouting and hiting me over the head for getting maths answers wrong we would be sat at the table for hours some nights going round in circles. I don't blame him he was just trying to do his best for me.

It's not about the area it's about the schools I went to two different State schools both of which were doing well in the league tables both of which had kids from all over the city and many from deprived areas. If parents really want their kids to do well instead of moving they should send their kids to private school. My dad believed in the state system partly because his profession was in the education departement of local government again I don't blame him. If parents want to move they should look at moving out of the major cities and towns into parts of the home counties for instance. Still if parents do that the kids most likely are going to grow up thinking they are white which is not a good thing either. I think Muslim private schools are the way forward and there's some really good ones around now.

That's why I hate rap music. It boils my blood. The freaking thing has ruined thousands of lives. I always thought to myself - why governments did not took strict action against 'gangsta' rap music? The promotion of drugs, money, expensive cars, weapons, sex, women and luxury made teenagers vulnerable.

Authorities just ignored the threat of rap music and we have seen the results. It should get banned. The rap music displays messed up culture.

Thank God this crap never appealed me.

Wish you well.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

That's why I hate rap music. It boils my blood. The freaking thing has ruined thousands of lives. I always thought to myself - why governments did not took strict action against 'gangsta' rap music? The promotion of drugs, money, expensive cars, weapons, sex, women and luxury made teenagers vulnerable.

Authorities just ignored the threat of rap music and we have seen the results. It should get banned. The rap music displays messed up culture.

Thank God this crap never appealed me.

Wish you well.

The stereotypes keep coming.

All northern mirpuris are drug dealing dole getters and all rap music influences people to shoot each other and take drugs.

Are you auditioning to be top gear presenters?

 

[Quick Single]

I am from an educated family both of my parents were well educated and my grand parents. My dads spoken English was better than most of my teachers at school and he had high expectations of me. That didn't stop me from getting involved with a bunch of idiots during my teens and ending up on the dole. There were problems at home which possibly lead to me getting involved with the idiots.

People often think if the parents are educated everything is fine well that certainly wasn't the case in our house. Everything went wrong when my dad got a promotion up north, we left the family base in the South East and ended up in a northern city. I went to a primary school with mostly white kids, I spoke in a posh southern accent and it took me a while to understand the other kids. It wasn't long before the racism started by some of the teachers and other kids. My dad had problems at work with some of his colleagues and that made him more stressed at home. We didn't really fit well in this northern city where most of the Asians were working class Mirpuris and most of the English people were ignorant. My parents made some good family friends who were professionals like them but to be honest they became isolated to a certain extent which didn't help matters at home.

At secondary school I came across these Mirpur side Pakistanis for the first time and started to ape their behaviour along with the black kids behaviour. I also learnt how viciouse they can be when you fall out with them. I basically became a wanabe gangsta heavily influenced by rap music and bit psychologically damaged. I think there are a lot of influences on the youth in this country that have nothing to do with parents. After I left school I noticed that all the Muslim youth had the same dilemas as me. We are Muslim but we are going clubing should we should we not drink alcohol should we chase after white women in short skirts ect. Many did exactly this but felt guilty about doing so which was the same for me. By this time I had developed a heavy northern accent and my behaviour was the same as an avergae northern working class Pakistani sighning on the dole droping out of college courses ect. I had an ambition to go to Uni but that was the same for most of the Mirpur side Pakistanis at college so there was actually no difference between me and them in having that aspiration. I did make it to Uni a bit later than expected and ended up droping out.

I'm now 29 years old and living back in the South East on the dole. My dad left this world without seeing his only son make something of himself but Insha'Allah one day I will. I've also developed seriouse health conditions which doesn't make the task of trying to make something of myself any easier.

I no longer have a heavy northern accent, I'm no longer a wanabe gangsta, I'm very proud of my family background and no well the difference between me and working class Pakistanis both from the Kashmir and Panjab side. How things could have turned out differently had I realised this at a much younger age. I do not know why as a teenager I started aping the working class black, asian and white youth from deprived backgrounds but I have my theories. What my story proves is that there are many issues which determine success and failiure and it's not all to do with which part of Pakistan you are from or which type of family you belong to.

Touching story dude, but I'm glad you learned from your mistakes, and hopefully other Pakistanis can learn quickly so they don't fall into the same hole as you did.

 

[Pak_NM]

The past results for British - Pakistanis are quite poor and the reasons are well documented in this thread. That being said MashAllah progress is being made, results are slowly improving and inshaAllah the future looks bright.

 

[sal2010]

i am mirpuri and the stereotypes that have been portrayed do not match my family but that as many of you say is because we have lived in the south.

i have had people say are you sure you are mirpuri (someone from karachi) as I was working in an office and not Sainsbury's or i do not look it.

There are issues with all communities but I think issues with so called mirpuris up north is just the general problems up north which cut across all races.

 

[Lazer]

Sad to here about your past yet glad that you learned from your mistakes. Introspection is a quality which not everybody is able to attain. Its never too late. You are on the right track. Go out and get that tertiary education. All the best

Easier said than done, being unemployed with health conditions, first priority for me is to try and get a means of income either through a job suited to my health or self employment. Again this is also easier said than done.

It's important to make the effort at the right time at the right age I know there are success stories of people getting masters degrees and making it in later life but that is the exception rather than the norm. You have to be incredibly motivated to go to lectures and spend evening after evening with your head in the books. With my current health conditions and bad experience of school college and uni I doubt this is possible. I'm looking at distance learning courses with the OU and similar institutions but obviously need a means of income first to be able to fund it.

 

[Lazer]

That's why I hate rap music. It boils my blood. The freaking thing has ruined thousands of lives. I always thought to myself - why governments did not took strict action against 'gangsta' rap music? The promotion of drugs, money, expensive cars, weapons, sex, women and luxury made teenagers vulnerable.

Authorities just ignored the threat of rap music and we have seen the results. It should get banned. The rap music displays messed up culture.

Thank God this crap never appealed me.

Wish you well.

Thanks

I mean yeh that's the main problem the promotion of drug dealing, driving around music blaring with tints, the clothes, the ghetto speak, the walk is all a part of it. Once you get into this way of thinking it's very hard to get out of it. Some get out of it by turning to Islam but what you find is it becomes long beard shaved head still with the ghetto mentality.

Even Abdul Raheem Green the famous convert to Islam talked about the problems he's having with his son turning to the Gangsta rubbish even though he sent his son to an all Muslim private school and his son has well eductaed good Muslims as parents.

 

[Lazer]

i am mirpuri and the stereotypes that have been portrayed do not match my family but that as many of you say is because we have lived in the south.

i have had people say are you sure you are mirpuri (someone from karachi) as I was working in an office and not Sainsbury's or i do not look it.

There are issues with all communities but I think issues with so called mirpuris up north is just the general problems up north which cut across all races.

In some of the towns around London like Slough Luton and Reading the exact same problems exist with Pakistani youth as in the north. I would say the situation is not that much better around Ealing and Southall with the Pakistani youth. If you go to areas like Newham and Ilford same problem again. In the north you can go to places like Blackburn Huddersfield Longsight Cheetham Hill Moss Side where a large proportion of the Pakistanis are Panjabis and yet gangsta culture has taken a hold.

I don't know it might be worse in the Mirpur side strong holds such as Birmingham and Bradford but that doesn't mean that Panjab side Pakistanis are not involved. People often forget the role Pathaans play as they are the ones at the four front of drug dealing in many cities and towns.

 

[the Great Khan]

its endemic..ive met loads of young pakistanis in my time who suffer from this disease..im glad i managed to stay out of it although i did suffer for a time..my biggest worry is my kids..I swear the first sign of trouble and they are going to military school in pakistan...!! but we must give them some aspirations..im trying to rbainwash him from now and see how it goes..lol..plus I dont lsiten to music anymore and neitehr does my wife, no bollywood or hip hop in the house so thats a start...but I cant control what his peers will be doing!!

 

[Markhor]

Agreed with some of the sentiments here.The 'gangsta rap' culture has a detrimental effect on Asian youths.I swear I absolutely detest those people who all morning sing their crappy lyrics from their artists etc.

Asian communities were initially quite articulate in the 60s and 70s but the culture of rap music has promoted the self-image that a lot of youths of like to portray.They don't be themselves,they change the way they walk,they talk in that ridiculous 'bruv' accent and fail to get anywhere in school.

I'm a Northerner,I live in Sheffield but even still I have a dislike for my local area,its become a chav paradise.It is a real shame that young Asians,thanks to rap culture,try not to portray themselves to be overly articulate and try and assimilate themselves into gangs.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I'm not sure what the main point of this thread is but education is not required to become wealthy that's why many Pakistani's leave education and get working straight away. Some people who have degrees are in massive debt and can't even get their job of preference when they leave University. It's great to be educated but it's up to the individual how he/she wants to live their lives. This is one reason why results are low for British Pakistani's and the other being they come from poor families who themselves don't have a history of great education which continues to filter down through the generations.

Things are improving though.

 

[GOAT]

I don't know what you're all talking about as I'm too lazy to read this thread BUT:

British Pakistani girls are fine. We in Canada are jealous.

 

[saeed-sohail]

o

Hate spewed against Kashmiris(yes that's my nationality regardless of the area I come from) is not a surprise for me.Because of this attitude among other issues vast majority of Kashmiri youth is in favour of independent Kashmir.

We might be ignorant but we sacrificed our homes our land and graves of our grand parents for a better Pakistan. Think about **** bagh dam and all the controversies for last three decades and then consider Mangla dam and its contribution in Pakistan economy.

Before blaming Kashmiris for lack of education or crime how about you do bit of research on literacy rate and crime rate in Pakistani Kashmir and compare it to "mainland" Pakistan.

 

[Fawad]

[UTUBE]HzeZhCt5PVA[/UTUBE]

 

[sal2010]

Hate spewed against Kashmiris(yes that's my nationality regardless of the area I come from) is not a surprise for me.Because this attitude among other issues vast majority of Kashmiri youth is in favour of independent Kashmir.

We might be ignorant but we sacrificed our homes our land and graves of our grand parents for a Pakistan. Think about **** bagh dam and all the controversies for last three decades and then consider Mangla dam and its contribution in Pakistan economy.

Before blaming Kashmiris for lack of education or crime how about you do bit of research on literacy rate and crime rate in Pakistani Kashmir and compare it to "mainland" Pakistan.

well said saeed!

 

[Impala_KaifTamasha]

You cant blame it all on Rap Music

 

[Lazer]

I'm not sure what the main point of this thread is but education is not required to become wealthy that's why many Pakistani's leave education and get working straight away. Some people who have degrees are in massive debt and can't even get their job of preference when they leave University. It's great to be educated but it's up to the individual how he/she wants to live their lives. This is one reason why results are low for British Pakistani's and the other being they come from poor families who themselves don't have a history of great education which continues to filter down through the generations.

Things are improving though.

I think it's the type of education you get, my dad useto say this as well. A lot of Asian kids go to the sub standard old polys and do micky mouse degrees. For example there is a huge difference between going to UCE in Birmingham and the University of Birmingham. It's no surprise that UCE is full of Pakistani students.

Doing subjects like Medicine Pharmacy Law ect will lead to a profession unlike a business studies degree from a low grade university.

It is true that most Pakistanis who study subjects like Medicine and Pharmacy are Lahore side Panjabis or from Karachi. This is because most of the middle class Pakistanis who came to this country came from these areas. In middle class families education is much more of a priority as compared to working class families and this is the same for every community not just Pakistanis.

Still I think some Pakistanis use the middle class mainland Pakistanis to point the finger at the Mirpur side Pakistanis. The fact is not all mainland Pakistanis in this country are middle class. There are plenty of working class main land Pakistanis in the north and south of the UK. I would say middle class Pakistanis from educated families are a minority in this country. The majority of Pakistanis who came to the UK came to work in factories textile mills ect.

 

[Lazer]

What a load of xenophobic, ignorant and seriously bigoted views held by some folks on here.

Firstly, as the name suggests i am Northern Mirpuri Monkey, but my views are objective rather than reactive or intolerant.

People seem to be hung-up on this idea that all the negative and failures of the Pakistani community is down to the Northern Mirpuri's. So lets get some objective facts in before people talk a load of bs.

Poverty levels are higher in London than the North - this can be seen on www.poverty.org.uk so this N/S argument doesn't hold. Other stats include higher levels of crime in London. Poorer housing conditions, health and levels of educational attainment. So this N/S stuff is rubbish!

Now onto this whole lets blame the mirpuris for everything! What a load of nonsense too! If it wasnt for a vast majority of mp's coming to the Uk in the 50's and 60's many other pakistanis would have found it difficult to settle here. No doubt about it that the mp's opened the gateway for others to come in.
Stuff like tax avoidance, fiddling this - yes it does go on, but some have suggested this is a trait exclusive to mps. Rubbish! I have worked in HMRC and can confirm fraud, especially vat and carousel-fraud (which is complex and often worth millions) is predominantly committed by SIKHS (Punjabi) and Indian Muslims NOT Mirpuris. Yes they may partake in the odd fiddling of books, but the biggest tax avoiders are those that can afford accountants and they are the ones that can save millions. Main difference is they call it 'creative accounting' its still essentially the same thing! So in the grand scheme of things mp avoidance is minor! However, trying to pay as little tax as possible is a natural thing and ANYONE given the opportunity would do it! Why else do many form LTD companies!

Mirpuris are not perfect and i for one dont agree with all there customs like marrying families/relatives back-home, but as long as its not forced and the young ppl are happy then who are we to question the choice of partners....

Its already been mentioned why pakistanis underachieve it includes lack of parental involvement, discrimination (institutional) lack of decent role models. etc - This isn't exclusive to MPs!

Pakistanis perennial underachievement and lack of success is defo not down to the MPs....Mean corruption in pakistan in epidemic, Bhutto, zardari, gilani, musharaff (non i think were mps) all the suicide bombings (although not 100% sure) are not down to mp's...
Lets not forget that during the floods the MP communities in places like Birmingham, W.Yorks, Lancs, etc raised a hell of a lot of money for Pakistan, i doubt the other communities raised as much or would have been as quick to respond.

Whilst MPs have many problems to place the blame on them shows the levels of discrimination this groups faces both from their own and others!

I also disagree it has anything to do with 'gangsta' or rap culture. Rap culture is always blamed its got nothing to do with them. If that was the case then we should also blame the news as they show violence, east enders, t.v and everything else in society! For too long rap culture takes the blame for youngsters messing up their lives. I doubt pakistanis are anything like their black counterparts.... As many Pakistanis usually come from 2-parent families (MANY from even bigger extended ones) our communities are more close knit....Our youth are nothing like Black-American gang/rap culture, although on the increase the gun and indiscriminate violence isn't as high in the UK/Pakistani communities (and hopefully) it stays like that! I think some of our young uns are having identity crises, but to suggest street culture keeps them safe/bullied is nonsense. Well maybe in London (which is generally rife with all the crap u wouldn't want) but its not as bad up north

TO Blame rap culture is just societies and parents get out clause for their failures in providing a decent home/up bringing for the children and keeping them on the straight and narrow. I've listened to rap music in my young days, didn't make me wonna drop my jeans to my a55, hold an uzi, sell drugs, pimp my 'hoes' and pop homies with my ak47! rubbish! it all goes down to individual responsibility!

Viva the Mirpuri revolution

I agree with you that tax avation and fraud is not just an MP trait and actually who does want to pay tax these days. Most of thsoe taxes go on illegal wars in other countries such as Afgahnistan instead of being spent on improving public services in this country.

You are worng that Mirpuris opened the doors for other Pakistanis to come to this country. The oldest Pakistani communities in England are Panjabi communities the mass MP side immigration took place in the 1970s. My family has been in this country since in the 1950s and at that time there were very few MPs in the UK.

Rap culture is to blame and you don't have to become an African American to fall into the trap. Pakistanis and Bangladeshis in the UK have formed a sub culture based on the rap culture. You can go to any Asian area of the South or North and you will find Asian guys even religious looking ones with a rude boy limp. You will see cars with tints rolling down the streets music blaring. You will hear the way Asians speak which is an Asian version of the Jamaican lingo. Asians have not become black they have invented their own culture based on black street culture which is firmly rooted in the ghetto mentality. This is what leads to failiure and under achievement because this culture does not promote academic success it promotes drugs, easy money, talking and acting like an idiot, Audi A3 with tints, hoes ect.

 

[Lazer]

What a load of craap you suggest degrees like Law, will lead to a profession. Law degrees these days are 10-to-a-penny. Over subscribed and not enough jobs. Business or any degree is not guarantee it will lead to a profession and all are just as likely to lead to jobs (if the right conditions, etc are met).

Whose truth is it that medicine students are usually punjabis? let me guess you and your 'middle-class' father? Where is your evidence to back such assertions? U have not provided a shred of evidence yet u continue to spew such garbage.

Listen don't insult my father he is no longer in this world.

You want to know why people hate MPs it's exactly the way you are behaving now.

Try and understand the point I'm making before going on the defensive. My point is that most Middle Class Pakistanis in this country are from the Lahore side of Panjab and Karachi. In Middle Class families education is much more of a priority whether Pakistani or English or whatever. My point is that it's a class issue and not a Mirpuri issue. Most Mirpuris who came to the UK were working class and also many mainland Pakistanis as well.

 

[Lazer]

Hate spewed against Kashmiris(yes that's my nationality regardless of the area I come from) is not a surprise for me.Because of this attitude among other issues vast majority of Kashmiri youth is in favour of independent Kashmir.

We might be ignorant but we sacrificed our homes our land and graves of our grand parents for a better Pakistan. Think about **** bagh dam and all the controversies for last three decades and then consider Mangla dam and its contribution in Pakistan economy.

Before blaming Kashmiris for lack of education or crime how about you do bit of research on literacy rate and crime rate in Pakistani Kashmir and compare it to "mainland" Pakistan.

Mirpuris are not ethnic Kashmiris mate, Mirpur useto be in the Panjab province of Pakistan. Nearlly all Mirpuris are a Panjabi cast. I have a few butt Kashmiris in my family and ethnic Kashmiris consider Mirpuris as Panjabis.

 

[Lazer]

there you go again FACTS without evidence. My info suggests the other way around. MPs in the 50's after the completion of the dam and the punjabis after the 60's. Serious question if you and your family are middle-class and your dad was edmucated then why would he travel thousands of miles to a foreign land to be treated like sh.... when he could be larging it up with the middle-classes?

Again how can u suggest rap culture is to blame? This is stereotypes n media propaganda against black youth culture. AND GHETTO mentality does NOT lead to under-achievement. Some of the biggest entrepreneurs came from the hood. you havent given one shred of credible evidence to back up your 'middle-class' views. Dude you need to stop feeding that monkey!

My grand father came to this country as an educated professional to do a professional job and ended up staying long term. My dads side of the family were not really economic migrants. Some of my mums side of the family were but even on my mums side my gand dad was a civil engineer and my mum was educated. Both my parents worked hard in this country and when we moved to the north they helped the Mirpuri community a lot in their respective professions.

Brother I might be Middle Class but I'm not a snob one thing I liked about the northern Pakistani community is how they are down to earth and close knit. Yes I had bad experiences with some MPs in the north and so did my parents but I've also had bad experiences with mainland Pakistanis, English, Black ect. There is good and bad in every community. Yes you;re right some big business men are from the hood but this thread is about academic ahievement.

 

[Lazer]

No evidence in the slightest to suggest middle-class folk originate from punjab part of pakistan. People always need scape-goats. Many pakistani are bitter cos the mps sent loads money home and it is one of the wealthiest parts of the country. Hence the huge ignorance against them.

I'm not bitter but it's a fact that most of the middle class Pakistanis who came to England went to London and were not part of the Mangla damb displaced community. Most of the people displaced from the Mangla damb were from rural villages with little or no education and came to this country to work in industry in the mdilands and north of England. It's a fact not an attack on the Mirpuri community.

 

[Lazer]

And i'm not doubting your parents didn't do alot for the MPs. However, your arguments dont hold. Mainly that middle-classes are from Lahore and they value education and the MPs don't.

I don't like to make it exclusivly a Lahori or MP issue. My main point is that education is more of a priority in the Middle Class than the Working Class. This is true of every community not just the Pakistani community. For people who came from rural villages around the Mangla education was not the main priority makinf money was which is perfectly understandable. Obviousely some kids who have grown up in this country have becaome educated and for them educating their kids is a priority.

 

[mani1]

I'm not bitter but it's a fact that most of the middle class Pakistanis who came to England went to London and were not part of the Mangla damb displaced community. Most of the people displaced from the Mangla damb were from rural villages with little or no education and came to this country to work in industry in the mdilands and north of England. It's a fact not an attack on the Mirpuri community.

What about North Punjabis are they middle class too in my experience the least educated Pakistanis I have come across are Gujarkhanis.
Also in Bradford the majority of doctors Pharmacists are Mirpuri not Punjabi and believe me there are plenty of North Punjabi and Pathan in Bradford.

 

[Lazer]

out of interest what if your definition of a middle-class pakistani? AND what is it that you do with yourself?

please scroll up and read post 91 of mine, you will know exactly my situation and why it is that I'm contributing to this thread.

Middle class is someone in a profession rather than a job. Professions are occupations like teacher, doctor, psychiatrist, solicitor, journalist, human resources manager ect.

 

[Lazer]

What about North Punjabis are they middle class too in my experience the least educated Pakistanis I have come across are Gujarkhanis.
Also in Bradford the majority of doctors Pharmacists are Mirpuri not Punjabi and believe me there are plenty of North Punjabi and Pathan in Bradford.

nortnern Panjabis from Jhelum Gujarat Gujar Khan were mainly part of the Mangla damb displacement. Which is why I said I don't like to make it an exclusively MP issue because it's not. It's about the reasons why Pakistanis came to this country and the vast majority of Pakistanis from the Mangla region came to work in industry.

Are these Mirpuri doctors first second or third generation?

Most of the first generation Pakistani doctors in the UK are from Southern Panjab and Karachi.

 

[mani1]

nortnern Panjabis from Jhelum Gujarat Gujar Khan were mainly part of the Mangla damb displacement. Which is why I said I don't like to make it an exclusively MP issue because it's not. It's about the reasons why Pakistanis came to this country and the vast majority of Pakistanis from the Mangla region came to work in industry.

Are these Mirpuri doctors first second or third generation?

No Idea as I dont really care. Also the Thread is about British Pakistanis.

Most of the first generation Pakistani doctors in the UK are from Southern Panjab and Karachi.

Gujarkhan is part of Rawalpindi district it has nothing to do with the mangla dam.

 

[Lazer]

Gujarkhan is part of Rawalpindi district it has nothing to do with the mangla dam.

Rawal Pindi district is quite large and includes some areas near Mirpur. Check the map and see how close Gujar Khan is to Mirpur and the Mangla. The same Portohari language is spoken in Gujar Khan and Mirpur as both are in Portohar. The city of Rawal Pindi is not in Portohar and the main spoken language in Rawal Pindi city is Panjabi.

 

[mani1]

Rawal Pindi district is quite large and includes some areas near Mirpur. Check the map and see how close Gujar Khan is to Mirpur and the Mangla. The same Portohari language is spoken in Gujar Khan and Mirpur as both are in Portohar. The city of Rawal Pindi is not in Portohar and the main spoken language in Rawal Pindi city is Panjabi.

I was under the impression Pindi before partition was considered part of patohar and as far as language is concerned my Pathan freind told me in his area most people now speak Urdu yet urdu is not the main language Pathans. also real Punjabi is spoken originaly in Lahore and Amristar and a few surrounding areas of both sides of the border no where near Pindi.

 

[Lazer]

I was under the impression Pindi before partition was considered part of patohar and as far as language is concerned my Pathan freind told me in his area most people now speak Urdu yet urdu is not the main language Pathans. also real Punjabi is spoken originaly in Lahore and Amristar and a few surrounding areas of both sides of the border no where near Pindi.

yes you're right pindi was historicaly a part of Portohar and also up until recent history Mirpur was a part of Panjab province which why I don't understand the high level of Kashmiri nationalism among some Mirpuris. Most Mirpuris are Panjabi casts and not ethnic Kashmiris.

Panjabi is spoken in all of Panjab province although there are different dialects, Portohari is one of the dialects of Panjabi and not a Mirpuri or Kashmiri language as some people assume. In fact the main reason Mirpuris speak Portohari is because they are ethnicaly Portohari Panjabis.

My Pathaan relatives who came to Pindi from the Pathaan regions north of Pindi speak Urdu. I think a lot of people in Pakistan speak Urdu now isntead of their ethnic language. It's become in fashion to speak Urdu. Even in the capital of Panjab Lahore a lot of people are speaking Urdu rather than Panjabi now days.

 

[mani1]

Panjabi is spoken in all of Panjab province although there are different dialects, Portohari is one of the dialects of Panjabi and not a Mirpuri or Kashmiri language as some people assume. In fact the main reason Mirpuris speak Portohari is because they are ethnicaly Portohari Panjabis.

I agree thats why I find it funny when ignorant north Punjabis talk down to Mirpuris and speak there sanu menu, munda etc thinking there Punjabis then when a Sikh or Lahori replys back to them in Punjabi they dont have a clue what was said and ask me to interpret.

My Pathaan relatives who came to Pindi from the Pathaan regions north of Pindi speak Urdu. I think a lot of people in Pakistan speak Urdu now isntead of their ethnic language. It's become in fashion to speak Urdu. Even in the capital of Panjab Lahore a lot of people are speaking Urdu rather than Panjabi now days.[/QUOTE]

yes you're right pindi was historicaly a part of Portohar and also up until recent history Mirpur was a part of Panjab province which why I don't understand the high level of Kashmiri nationalism among some Mirpuris. Most Mirpuris are Panjabi casts and not ethnic Kashmiris.

Its due to bigotry Mirpuris recieve and also ignorance from the Mirpuris themselvs

 

[DW44]

Rawal Pindi district is quite large and includes some areas near Mirpur. Check the map and see how close Gujar Khan is to Mirpur and the Mangla. The same Portohari language is spoken in Gujar Khan and Mirpur as both are in Portohar. The city of Rawal Pindi is not in Portohar and the main spoken language in Rawal Pindi city is Panjabi.

It isn't, I live there and the most commonly spoken language by far is Urdu. It may have been in the past but in the 15 years that I've lived there(and Islamabad, where English is the second most commonly spoken language after Urdu), Urdu has been the main language there, at least amongst the educated classes and that's quite a large chunk of a population of 2.7 million given that the literacy rate there is the second highest in Pakistan after Islamabad (87% and 80% for Islamabad and Rawalpindi respectively).

 

[saeed-sohail]

Mirpuris are not ethnic Kashmiris mate, Mirpur useto be in the Panjab province of Pakistan. Nearlly all Mirpuris are a Panjabi cast. I have a few butt Kashmiris in my family and ethnic Kashmiris consider Mirpuris as Panjabis.

I was talking about nationality not ethnicity.Mirpur has not been part of Punjab in last 100 years at least.At the time of partition Mirpur was part of jummu and Kashmir run by Dogra raj.My grand father passed his secondary school exam in 1930s in Mirpur and it was issued by jummu and Kashmir authority.

 

[sal2010]

how does anyone determine who is an ethnic kashmiri or punjabi or balochi or pathaan have you done dna spot checks?

also as far as i am concerend i am of kashmiri origin even though i from district mirpur nothing anyone says on a forum will change that!

 

[Lazer]

It isn't, I live there and the most commonly spoken language by far is Urdu. It may have been in the past but in the 15 years that I've lived there(and Islamabad, where English is the second most commonly spoken language after Urdu), Urdu has been the main language there, at least amongst the educated classes and that's quite a large chunk of a population of 2.7 million given that the literacy rate there is the second highest in Pakistan after Islamabad (87% and 80% for Islamabad and Rawalpindi respectively).

ok mate that's fair enough I accept your point and also not many portohari speakers live in Islamabad and Rawal pindi city they live in the villages. Portohari is mostly spoken in villages around Mirpur and surrounding areas which includes some villages in Rawal Pindi district.

 

[Lazer]

I was talking about nationality not ethnicity.Mirpur has not been part of Punjab in last 100 years at least.At the time of partition Mirpur was part of jummu and Kashmir run by Dogra raj.My grand father passed his secondary school exam in 1930s in Mirpur and it was issued by jummu and Kashmir authority.

what are Mirpuris though? They speak Portohari Panjabi so how can they not be Panjabi. They might not be Lahori Panjabis that is accepted but hundred percent of Mirpuris I've come across admit to being Potwaari (Portohari). Portoharis are not from northern Kashmir in Northern Kashmir people speak Hindko. Also Kashmiris are made of certain casts such as the Butts. Northern kashmiris don't consider Mirpuris Kashmiris which is understandable considering Mirpuris speak Portohari Panjabi and look like northern Panjabis and identify with Panjabi casts.

 

[Lazer]

how does anyone determine who is an ethnic kashmiri or punjabi or balochi or pathaan have you done dna spot checks?

also as far as i am concerend i am of kashmiri origin even though i from district mirpur nothing anyone says on a forum will change that!

don't need to do a DNA test you can tell by what language people speak this is not about race it's about language. Mirpuris speak Portohari Panjabi identify with Panjabi casts rather than Kashmiri casts but then claim Kashmiri nationalism and ethnicity at the same time. Makes no sense.

It's like for example a town in Panjab being moved into NWFP the people in the town continuing to speak Panjabi but claiming they are now Pathaans. Does it make sense?

 

[Riff]

Lol at the losers blaming rap music for the condition of Brit-Pakis. I can picture most of you getting bullied by Pakistani rap-music fans back in the day. haha

Also people are forgettin the rock n roll culture of the 1970s or when was it

Drugs, Sex and Rock n Roll- Ring a Bell? lol

The only difference is Brit-Pakistani didnt embrace that culture in comparison to the gangsta-rap culture (obviously ), so in actual fact it is dumb pakistanis that are to be blamed because they dont realise some of these rappers are actually from really bad neighbourhoods and have lived that life.

But having said that, the majority of you clowns living in suburbs need to realise that there are Pakistanis who are from places where things arent as rosey as where youre from. So stick to wearing tight jeans and rockin' your Justin Bieber haircuts, and move along. Ok?

 

[Riff]

:delete post

 

[saeed-sohail]

what are Mirpuris though? They speak Portohari Panjabi so how can they not be Panjabi. They might not be Lahori Panjabis that is accepted but hundred percent of Mirpuris I've come across admit to being Potwaari (Portohari). Portoharis are not from northern Kashmir in Northern Kashmir people speak Hindko. Also Kashmiris are made of certain casts such as the Butts. Northern kashmiris don't consider Mirpuris Kashmiris which is understandable considering Mirpuris speak Portohari Panjabi and look like northern Panjabis and identify with Panjabi casts.

Mate language doesn,t determine nationality.Indians of chandi ghar speak more like lahoris then those living in banglore but both are Indian nationals.Mirpur as a district has been part of state of kashmir for 200 years.When partition took place mirpur was part of jammu and kashmir.

 

[mani1]

Mate language doesn,t determine nationality.Indians of chandi ghar speak more like lahoris then those living in banglore but both are Indian nationals.Mirpur as a district has been part of state of kashmir for 200 years.When partition took place mirpur was part of jammu and kashmir.

He is talking about ethnicity Mirpuris are Potohari and Jhelum Gujarkhan etc also are too not punjabi like they claim an example is Attock it is in Punjab yet the majority of the people living there are Chaachi or Pathan they are not Punjabi.

 

[BMW Power]

Stereotyping rap music with foul behavior is the equivalent of thinking that everyone with a beard is a terrorist.

 

[Robert]

Rap culture is to blame and you don't have to become an African American to fall into the trap. Pakistanis and Bangladeshis in the UK have formed a sub culture based on the rap culture. You can go to any Asian area of the South or North and you will find Asian guys even religious looking ones with a rude boy limp. You will see cars with tints rolling down the streets music blaring. You will hear the way Asians speak which is an Asian version of the Jamaican lingo. Asians have not become black they have invented their own culture based on black street culture which is firmly rooted in the ghetto mentality. This is what leads to failiure and under achievement because this culture does not promote academic success it promotes drugs, easy money, talking and acting like an idiot, Audi A3 with tints, hoes ect.

I see and hear white teenagers talking the same way and I feel sad that they understand so little of the UK's rich history and culture, and have to co-opt something else instead.

Every rap video is the same: the cars, the crib, the girls shaking their bums, but they do not tell you that those things only come with hard work (unless one is a big-time criminal).

Rap used to be protest music, but now it is all about a lifestyle that few will ever live.

 

[Riff]

stereotyping rap music with foul behavior is the equivalent of thinking that everyone with a beard is a terrorist.

+1

 

[ace4rmspace]

Wow! Being a Mirpuri and the son of a Taxi Driver, I did not know how much I was hated until I read this thread, especially by those who I thought were my own "Community". I am honestly shocked! Hearing things like "Ignorant Mirpuri Taxi Driver" "Backward Minded Mirpuri". This thread has really made my day!!

 

[Riff]

Wow! Being a Mirpuri and the son of a Taxi Driver, I did not know how much I was hated until I read this thread, especially by those who I thought were my own "Community". I am honestly shocked! Hearing things like "Ignorant Mirpuri Taxi Driver" "Backward Minded Mirpuri". This thread has really made my day!!

Im not Mirpuri, but I feel your pain. PP has secret hatred towards particular Pakistanis. I think there are negative views held towards Karachi ppl too. Being a punjabi I can only hope that things change on PakPassion in the near future and everyone is treated with the same respect.

Shame on you PP!!

 

[Riff]

Pakpassion. Lol, who are we kiddin?

PunjabiPassion more like it )

 

[sal2010]

So the punjabi mafia rears its ugly head on pak passion too!

 

[chacha kashmiri]

I see and hear white teenagers talking the same way and I feel sad that they understand so little of the UK's rich history and culture, and have to co-opt something else instead.

Every rap video is the same: the cars, the crib, the girls shaking their bums, but they do not tell you that those things only come with hard work (unless one is a big-time criminal).

Rap used to be protest music, but now it is all about a lifestyle that few will ever live.

That is akin to basing all muslims to just the ones you see on tv.

Rap has been diluted to it's current form by governments and industries. The majority of rich rap industry executives are white and jewish.
To become famous and make more money rap stars are forced to conform to the commercial music you hear on the radio/see on tv.

For 'protest' music listen to dead prez, lowkey, immortal technique, the roots, klashnekoff, to name but a few.


Here's a good song

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Fl5OovFrYzc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Lazer]

Mate language doesn,t determine nationality.Indians of chandi ghar speak more like lahoris then those living in banglore but both are Indian nationals.Mirpur as a district has been part of state of kashmir for 200 years.When partition took place mirpur was part of jammu and kashmir.

That's exactly the point Indians are united in their nationality where as Pakistanis are always on about Urdu Speaker, Sindhi, Panjabi, Pathaan, Balouchi, Kashmiri. I can gaurantee you if Indian occupied Kashmir was mostly Hindus and Sikhs they would be proud to be Indian. Why can't you be proud to be Pakistani? What is different about you from a Pakistani from Gujar Khan? Same religion same language same culture. How come the Gujar Khani can be proud but you can't?

The only reason Azad Kashmir is not properly included with the other four regions of Pakistan is because that would be accepting LOC as the official border with India. It's got nothing to do with Kashmiris being a different nationality.

 

[mani1]

That's exactly the point Indians are united in their nationality where as Pakistanis are always on about Urdu Speaker, Sindhi, Panjabi, Pathaan, Balouchi, Kashmiri. I can gaurantee you if Indian occupied Kashmir was mostly Hindus and Sikhs they would be proud to be Indian. Why can't you be proud to be Pakistani? What is different about you from a Pakistani from Gujar Khan? Same religion same language same culture. How come the Gujar Khani can be proud but you can't?

Prabably because Gujarkhanis are not called backwards ignorant etc on a daily basis or called Gujis or GK in a derogatory way. Or there language laughed at Oh Jaakatah Gachi tey Bachi teh ray.

 

[Lazer]

Prabably because Gujarkhanis are not called backwards ignorant etc on a daily basis or called Gujis or GK in a derogatory way. Or there language laughed at Oh Jaakatah Gachi tey Bachi teh ray.

I have lived all my life in the UK and not once have I seen main land Pakistanis racially abusing Pakistanis from Mirpur. I have on the other hand been accused of being Indian or a coconut who can't speak Panjabi by Kashmir side Potohari speakers when I didn't fully understand what they were saying in Potohari. I can now generally understand Potohari but as a teenager I couldn't make sense of it.

 

[afzaal1988]

Prabably because Gujarkhanis are not called backwards ignorant etc on a daily basis or called Gujis or GK in a derogatory way. Or there language laughed at Oh Jaakatah Gachi tey Bachi teh ray.

Exactly

 

[mani1]

Have you read this thread?

Also I have heard it plenty of times mostly from dumb North Punjabis who think Punjabi is just sanu menu and munda who try to make fun of patwari then when I say to them in there version of Patwari "Jaakatah gachi tey bachi teh ray" they get upset and deny thats how they speak.

I also hear it from "I am originally from Afghanistan" or "you a **** or Pathan" types too because I have lighter skin then most Pakistanis.

 

[MC]

Prabably because Gujarkhanis are not called backwards ignorant etc on a daily basis or called Gujis or GK in a derogatory way. Or there language laughed at Oh Jaakatah Gachi tey Bachi teh ray.

Speaking from personal experince, I've very often seen people from Gujar Khan/Jehlum getting confused as Mirpuris. The people from Gujar Khan I know don't think they have much in common with people from Northern Punjab.

 

[mani1]

Speaking from personal experince, I've very often seen people from Gujar Khan/Jehlum being confused as Mirpuris. The people from Gujar Khan I know don't think they have much in common with people from Northern Punjab.

This is exactly what I am talking about my Pathan mate thinks all North Punjabis are Mirpuri and the Gujharkhanis and Jhelmis I know try speaking punjabi and when a sikh guy replys to them they dont have a clue what was said.
Also every where in Pakistan from Mirpur, Muzzufarabaad and peshawar etc Urdu is widely spoken only in North Punjab they speak or try to speak punjabi.

 

[mani1]

Speaking from personal experince, I've very often seen people from Gujar Khan/Jehlum getting confused as Mirpuris. The people from Gujar Khan I know don't think they have much in common with people from Northern Punjab.

What do they think they are Central Punjabis, most of the ones I know say pindi or Islamabad when asked even though I have known them and there family for years.

 

[Lazer]

There's a massive difference between people from the city of Islamabad and Rawal Pindi and those from the villages near the border with Kashmir.

If anyone from Kallar syedan or Gujar Khan thinks they are any different from Mirpuri people just because they fall within Rawal Pindi district then they are fooling themselves and nobody else.

There might be slight differences but generally language culture and education level is the same. Pakistani government hasn't bothered to make education a priority in the villages of Southern Kashmir and Northern Panjab they are to busy slavishly accepting American drone strikes and Raymond Davis attacks. No point blaming poor people from villages in northern Pakistan who came to the UK for their lack of education and desire to make money blame the Pakistani government for being useless. Gardari himself has got a fake degree.

I'm a Panjabi but I understand the problems of Pakistan and the problems faced by British Pakistani youth and British Pakistanis in general cannot just be blamed on the population of Mirpur.

 

[Gujar]

This is exactly what I am talking about my Pathan mate thinks all North Punjabis are Mirpuri and the Gujharkhanis and Jhelmis I know try speaking punjabi and when a sikh guy replys to them they dont have a clue what was said.
Also every where in Pakistan from Mirpur, Muzzufarabaad and peshawar etc Urdu is widely spoken only in North Punjab they speak or try to speak punjabi.

LOL. You're very lost my friend. My family is from Jhelum and I went to Uni with a lot of Sikh mates and spoke the most fluent Punjabi out of all of them. Your mates probably know very little Punjabi if they struggle to understand Sikh Punjabi. Sikh Punjabi from my experience is the most basic Punjabi with an average sentence length of 3 words.

 

[mani1]

LOL. You're very lost my friend. My family is from Jhelum and I went to Uni with a lot of Sikh mates and spoke the most fluent Punjabi out of all of them. Your mates probably know very little Punjabi if they struggle to understand Sikh Punjabi. Sikh Punjabi from my experience is the most basic Punjabi with an average sentence length of 3 words.

I am talking from personal experience most jhelmis and gujarkhinis speak patwari even though they consider themselves punjabis.
My family is from Mirpur I can speak both Urdu and Punjabi and can string a few sentences together in pashto doesnt change the fact I am Patwari not punjabi.

 

[Gujar]

I am talking from personal experience most jhelmis and gujarkhinis speak patwari even though they consider themselves punjabis.
My family is from Mirpur I can speak both Urdu and Punjabi and can string a few sentences together in pashto doesnt change the fact I am Patwari not punjabi.

Your experience does not reflect the majority like you are making it out to be though. Being from Jhelum doesn't necessarily mean you will speak 'Pure' Punjabi. There may be Patwari speakers according to where their family is originally from. The majority of Jhelumis I know speak pure Punjabi, and the few that I have met who speak a Patwari dialect usually have most of their family in Mirpur etc.

 

[mani1]

Your experience does not reflect the majority like you are making it out to be though. Being from Jhelum doesn't necessarily mean you will speak 'Pure' Punjabi. There may be Patwari speakers according to where their family is originally from. The majority of Jhelumis I know speak pure Punjabi, and the few that I have met who speak a Patwari dialect usually have most of their family in Mirpur etc.

"Real Punjabi" is spoken in central Punjab Jhelum is no where near. Though one can learn any language that does not change your ethnicity.

 

[mani1]

Jhelum does have a high literacy rate so I would not be suprised if a lot of people spoke punjabi but it is in patwaar.So the original language is or was patwari

 

[Cracket]

I don't like the stereotype. We Indian students need to learn to have some fun too and bring a C or D here and there and chill. We're one of the most popular immigrants to USA, and we don't even have our own hood gang yet. I mean the blacks have their gangsters, the Italians have their Mafia, the South East/East have the Yakuza and Triads. Where's the Indian gangs yo.