The Pakistani community in the UK has failed - Discuss

[Wasim_Waqar]

If you look at it, disproportionate numbers are involved in crime. We contribute little to UK society. Have we failed since coming here to the UK? The older generation worked hard but the newer generation has mostly failed. Discuss.

 

[Syed1]

A lot of the UK Pakistanis are those that came uneducated to the UK and did not assimilate with the local population. Their kids went to schools that had 90% kids from the same background further increasing the divide between the immigrants and locals.

As they say you can take a guy out of a pind but you cannot take the pind out of the guy.


On the flip side Pakistanis in Canada are very peaceful and one of the biggest economic contributors.

 

[Slog]

A lot of the UK Pakistanis are those that came uneducated to the UK and did not assimilate with the local population. Their kids went to schools that had 90% kids from the same background further increasing the divide between the immigrants and locals.

As they say you can take a guy out of a pind but you cannot take the pind out of the guy.


On the flip side Pakistanis in Canada are very peaceful and one of the biggest economic contributors.

I think Canada is a mixed bag. You hear a lot of stories of people struggling but the thing is that its a welfare state (or close to it) so you are always safe to some extent. Dawn has had a few articles pointing to poor overall situation of Canadian Pakistanis too. Have may friends who went to stdy there and they are doing well but some are struggling too. (struggling lose term here basically they are not saving a whole lot)

In UK, the problem as Syed1 points out is that the folks who went there were generally poorly educated and blue collar workers and thus ghettoized themselves. Also very conservative which is what you would find in villages. I was only in UK for one extended summer so my experience isnt as vast, but it seemed that some of the British Pakistani families and uncle were stuck in a time warp. Pakistan is a totally different society from the one they left and they refused to assimilate into Britiain fully. The kids grow up with some confused views. To some extent this is the same for some Pakistani American kids who grew up in Brooklyn ive noticed but in US, the general Pakistani American population is well off tan the average American (bothin terms of income and education) so its not as big an issue

Its always a huge huge shock for me to see 3rd generation British Pakistanis marrying a girl/boy from their grandfathr's village having never met the person

 

[mani1]

A lot of the UK Pakistanis are those that came uneducated to the UK and did not assimilate with the local population. Their kids went to schools that had 90% kids from the same background further increasing the divide between the immigrants and locals.

As they say you can take a guy out of a pind but you cannot take the pind out of the guy.


On the flip side Pakistanis in Canada are very peaceful and one of the biggest economic contributors.

Pakistan-born immigrants are the new face of poverty in urban Canada. The Canadian census revealed that 44 per cent of Pakistan-born immigrants fell below the poverty line making them the second most poverty prone group of immigrants in Canada.
While they may project an aura of opulence during their visits back home, their life in Canada, however, is often full of struggle and frustration. Thousands of Pakistani trained engineers, doctors, and PhDs are driving taxis or are working as security guards in large cities. In fact, one in three taxi-drivers in Canada was born in either India or Pakistan. Several others are unemployed thus becoming a burden on Canadian taxpayers.

http://www.dawn.com/news/718842/pakistani-canadians-falling-below-the-poverty-line

 

[hafeezrocks]

Tbh, the Problem in UK is more due to the Mirpuris, than Pakistanis as whole.

The recent immigrants from modern cities like Lahore, Karachi etc in the UK are as prosperous and progressive as their American / Canadian counterparts.

 

[JaDed]

What does failure mean? Income levels,educations levels,crime levels? If yes then compared to whom the average White English population?

 

[Slog]

They are mostly asylum seekers and dodgy students and Canadian counterparts success has been highlighted in my previous post.

So only Amrican Pakistanis stand out ?

 

[mani1]

If you look at it, disproportionate numbers are involved in crime. We contribute little to UK society. Have we failed since coming here to the UK? The older generation worked hard but the newer generation has mostly failed. Discuss.

Which Immigrant groups do you think are doing well?
Indians are not really doing that well compared to White Irish never mind the White British?

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

Which Immigrant groups do you think are doing well?
Indians are not really doing that well compared to White Irish never mind the White British?

Chinese and Indians. The Indians are in all places. I see it all the time, including at work. They've worked extremely hard and had a vision.

I think we have failed. It's a sad state of affairs and it will only get worse.

 

[mani1]

So only Amrican Pakistanis stand out ?

Well in figures I have seen they are not really doing any where near as well as what is often stated on here but even then they are not official figures.

Dig a bit deeper into the AACAJ report, and you will come across some troubling data. Fifteen per cent of Pakistani-Americans fall below the poverty line – which happens to be the rate for the American population on the whole. Similarly, unemployment rates for the diaspora – 8 per cent (for those aged 16 and older) – reflect the rate for the total US population. On several measures, Pakistani-Americans are considerably worse off than the general population. Only 55 per cent own homes, compared to the nationwide figure of 66 per cent. Their per capita income is about $24,700, compared to $27,100 for the total population. And 23 per cent of Pakistani-Americans have no health insurance – which ties them with Bangladeshi-Americans for the highest percentage of any Asian-American ethnic group. This is significantly higher than the 15 per cent national figure (though Gallup polls suggest this figure has risen to 17 per cent in the last few months).


http://www.dawn.com/news/720994/how-affluent-are-the-pakistani-americans

 

[mani1]

Chinese and Indians. The Indians are in all places. I see it all the time, including at work. They've worked extremely hard and had a vision.

I think we have failed. It's a sad state of affairs and it will only get worse.

In my experience most Indians whom are super successful are Indian born and Educated the one's I have come across in the UK generally are doing nowhere near as well as the Irish never mind the White British.

As for Pakistani's getting worse I don't think so as more and more women are starting to work.

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

Do people on PP have a grudge against British Pakistanis? Seems they are obsessed with discussing how Brit Paks seemingly can't integrate in society.

These posters rarely provide any stats or data - with the exception of mani1. Im a Norwegian Pakistani and have interacted with most of the Pakistani diaspora. As Slog says, Canada is a welfare state and it's safety net will not allow people to endure much 'hardships'. Canadian Pakistanis can both be highly educated professionals from urban areas (KHI/LHR) or 'paindu' truckers and cabbies from rural areas in Gujrat/Sialkot. It really is a mixed bag. As far as Pakistani Americans are concerned, they obviously are much more successful than Pakistanis in Europe - but that has more to do with who they allow to settle in the country. The Pakistanis I have met in New York are, however, 'paindus' with very little class.

I am a Brit Pak.

The issue is the antisocial behaviour and the seeming enjoyment a decent proportion get out of behaving that way. Fly tipping. Unemployment, crime such as drug dealing, violence and not integrating. Ps the White British population is fully aware of the situation too.

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

In my experience most Indians whom are super successful are Indian born and Educated the one's I have come across in the UK generally are doing nowhere near as well as the Irish never mind the White British.

As for Pakistani's getting worse I don't think so as more and more women are starting to work.

There has been improvement on the female front, but that is markedly outweighed by the things that I have stated above.

I guess a lot of our parents gave from poor backgrounds (and I'm from a poor background) and a large chunk had no vision for their children.

 

[GujjarLife]

Do you have any data showing that this problem is isolated to Mirpuris? These so-called 'recent immigrants' are mostly people who have acquired citizenship in countries in Southern Europe, and moved to the UK. They aren't much to brag about. The rest are recently arrived asylum seekers.

Tbh, the Problem in UK is more due to the Mirpuris, than Pakistanis as whole.

The recent immigrants from modern cities like Lahore, Karachi etc in the UK are as prosperous and progressive as their American / Canadian counterparts.

 

[mani1]

There has been improvement on the female front, but that is markedly outweighed by the things that I have stated above.

I guess a lot of our parents gave from poor backgrounds (and I'm from a poor background) and a large chunk had no vision for their children.

Them things are also prevelant in the Jamaican community and to a lesser extent Sikhs whom are also into female infancide and fraud too Ilford, Birmingham, Coventry, Southall etc

 

[Rafa]

Tbh, the Problem in UK is more due to the Mirpuris, than Pakistanis as whole.

The recent immigrants from modern cities like Lahore, Karachi etc in the UK are as prosperous and progressive as their American / Canadian counterparts.

Agree, mass migration of not so educated folks from Mirpur to UK has been the basic problem

 

[mani1]

Agree, mass migration of not so educated folks from Mirpur to UK has been the basic problem

So why are Urban Pakistani's from London "The Poverty Capital of England" the bottom of the barrel along with Bengalis?

How do you explain Canadian Pakistani's lack of success?

 

[GujjarLife]

Agree, mass migration of not so educated folks from Mirpur to UK has been the basic problem

Yes, they should have imported talented people like the 'One pund fish' guy who really enriched London. Lol.

 

[Slog]

Well in figures I have seen they are not really doing any where near as well as what is often stated on here but even then they are not official figures.

Dig a bit deeper into the AACAJ report, and you will come across some troubling data. Fifteen per cent of Pakistani-Americans fall below the poverty line – which happens to be the rate for the American population on the whole. Similarly, unemployment rates for the diaspora – 8 per cent (for those aged 16 and older) – reflect the rate for the total US population. On several measures, Pakistani-Americans are considerably worse off than the general population. Only 55 per cent own homes, compared to the nationwide figure of 66 per cent. Their per capita income is about $24,700, compared to $27,100 for the total population. And 23 per cent of Pakistani-Americans have no health insurance – which ties them with Bangladeshi-Americans for the highest percentage of any Asian-American ethnic group. This is significantly higher than the 15 per cent national figure (though Gallup polls suggest this figure has risen to 17 per cent in the last few months).


http://www.dawn.com/news/720994/how-affluent-are-the-pakistani-americans

Another report says that the average household income of Pakistani American households is much greater than the national average. Per capita is always going to be lower (not that is significantly is) and isn't a good measure

As for home ownership, Muslims generally will fall big time in this regard because of mortgages, interest and whole shmatz so not the best measure again. In any case I don't think the young generation is geared towards home ownership anyway. Certainly nothing I looked into and I don't even care about interest/mortgages etc

Health insurance coverage seems only point which I buy

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

Agree, mass migration of not so educated folks from Mirpur to UK has been the basic problem

Does that explain the criminals of Pathan and Punjabi origin?

Ps my father was not formally educated and he's from Punjab. However he had a vision.

 

[aloo paratha]

I think Canada is a mixed bag. You hear a lot of stories of people struggling but the thing is that its a welfare state (or close to it) so you are always safe to some extent. Dawn has had a few articles pointing to poor overall situation of Canadian Pakistanis too. Have may friends who went to stdy there and they are doing well but some are struggling too. (struggling lose term here basically they are not saving a whole lot)

In UK, the problem as Syed1 points out is that the folks who went there were generally poorly educated and blue collar workers and thus ghettoized themselves. Also very conservative which is what you would find in villages. I was only in UK for one extended summer so my experience isnt as vast, but it seemed that some of the British Pakistani families and uncle were stuck in a time warp. Pakistan is a totally different society from the one they left and they refused to assimilate into Britiain fully. The kids grow up with some confused views. To some extent this is the same for some Pakistani American kids who grew up in Brooklyn ive noticed but in US, the general Pakistani American population is well off tan the average American (bothin terms of income and education) so its not as big an issue

Its always a huge huge shock for me to see 3rd generation British Pakistanis marrying a girl/boy from their grandfathr's village having never met the person

Well it's obvious that it'll happen when you have to pay 4 times more as an international student.

 

[Salma_T]

these posts tend to become mirpuri bashing posts on a whole as if they are the only ones dragging the stats down "Pakistanis" in the UK. It takes about 3 generations to to make a mark especially if you are coming from a background where there was no education. A lot of people value education/skill sets and know for their children to succeed they need more then they had.
This post is probably a reaction to the recent targeted killing on the motorway but crime is always there as you never find a community that is free of elements of criminal activity.

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

these posts tend to become mirpuri bashing posts on a whole as if they are the only ones dragging the stats down "Pakistanis" in the UK. It takes about 3 generations to to make a mark especially if you are coming from a background where there was no education. A lot of people value education/skill sets and know for their children to succeed they need more then they had.
This post is probably a reaction to the recent targeted killing on the motorway but crime is always there as you never find a community that is free of elements of criminal activity.

It's a post that's been coming for a long time. Birmingham and Bradford inner cities are examples of areas that are hugely problematic.

 

[TSA321]

If you look at it, disproportionate numbers are involved in crime.

How disproportionate is it? And most ethnic minorities in general are disproportionately involved in crime.
If you look at crime by nationality, Pakistani nationals have a far lower crime rate than almost all other nationalities.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...oday-including-700-murderers-500-rapists.html

 

[TSA321]

I think we have failed. It's a sad state of affairs and it will only get worse.

It's not getting worse according to Government stats.

Pakistani and Bangladeshi men have seen large falls in unemployment over the period 1991 to 2011 (respectively from 25% to 10% and from 26% to 11%), but unemployment rates for both these groups remain much higher than for White men. Pakistani and Bangladeshi women were the least likely to be in the labour market, but also experienced the highest rises in rates of economic activity between 1991 and 2011 (from 24% to 43% for Pakistani women and from 17% to 40% for Bangladeshi women). Both of these groups also had the largest increases among women in part-time work: 2011 rates were twice as high as in 1991.

http://www.ethnicity.ac.uk/medialib...mployment-persisted-between-1991-2011 (1).pdf

The largest improvements between 1991 and 2011 were for the Indian and Pakistani groups, which experienced an increase in those with degree level qualifications by 27 and 18 percentage points respectively (Figure 4). The Bangladeshi and Pakistani groups saw the greatest improvement in educational attainment with a 19 and 16 percentage point decrease respectively in those without any qualifications.

http://www.ethnicity.ac.uk/medialib...ethnic-inequalities-in-education-changing.pdf

There has been a substantial reduction in the proportion of the Bangladeshi (9 percentage points) and Pakistani (6 percentage points) groups that live in a deprived neighbourhood since 2001 (Figure 1).

http://www.ethnicity.ac.uk/medialib...es-to-live-in-deprived-neighbourhoods (1).pdf

 

[Salma_T]

It's not getting worse according to Government stats.



http://www.ethnicity.ac.uk/medialib...mployment-persisted-between-1991-2011 (1).pdf



http://www.ethnicity.ac.uk/medialib...ethnic-inequalities-in-education-changing.pdf



http://www.ethnicity.ac.uk/medialib...es-to-live-in-deprived-neighbourhoods (1).pdf

Do these figures surprise me no as the longer communities are settled the improvements in educational/employment etc will happen it is just how migration works.

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

How disproportionate is it? And most ethnic minorities in general are disproportionately involved in crime.
If you look at crime by nationality, Pakistani nationals have a far lower crime rate than almost all other nationalities.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...oday-including-700-murderers-500-rapists.html

In my opinion, there are a huge number of antisocial people who are criminals but have not been convicted within our community. They make life difficult for us law abiding citizens.

Can't believe people are in denial.

 

[Yossarian]

The same old ignorance based views expressed by those who appear to have no clue whatsoever as to the differences in the backgrounds/ education levels/ wealth and various other social factors between those 1st generations that migrated to the UK versus those that migrated to North America, and how that has a major bearing on the current disparity between the two groups.

It's the equivalent of comparing the affluence levels of those who's parents & grandparents came from affluent areas and went to private schools versus those whose parents & grandparents grew up in the backwaters with little or no schooling. And then claiming that because, on average, the offspring of the latter were not as economically successful as the former it's proof of the latter group being 'failures'.

The above has been pointed out on numerous threads previously and yet the same old rubbish keeps being trotted out on a regular basis with the usual suspects starting new threads on the topic.

 

[TSA321]

I disagree with that. Large numbers of Pathans and Punjabis are the same.

Most academics tend to actually state that those from the Central Punjab region (and especially those that came originally from East Punjab) have become quite successful

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...JAhXBmg4KHfFsD5gQ6AEIIDAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...ans Overseas: Migration and Ethnicity&f=false

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...JAhXF6A4KHZrqBusQ6AEIIDAA#v=onepage&q&f=false


https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...nd Offerings among British Pakistanis&f=false

 

[mani1]

Most academics tend to actually state that those from the Central Punjab region (and especially those that came originally from East Punjab) have become quite successful

Spoiler

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...JAhXBmg4KHfFsD5gQ6AEIIDAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...ans Overseas: Migration and Ethnicity&f=false

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...JAhXF6A4KHZrqBusQ6AEIIDAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

View attachment 71925
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...nd Offerings among British Pakistanis&f=false

none of them are based on facts Pollock sheilds huddersfield Cheetham hill London etc look up official poverty figures of those areas

 

[mani1]

Pay Gap by Ethnicity
External research* by the Poverty Site showed that:

Almost half of all Bangladeshi and Pakistani employees earned less than £7 per hour. This was a much higher proportion than that for any other ethnic group.
Taking this indicator and the indicator on work and ethnicity together, Bangladeshis and Pakistanis had both the lowest work rates and, once in work, the highest likelihood of low pay.

http://www.gov.scot/Topics/People/Equality/Equalities/DataGrid/Ethnicity/EthPov

This is Scotland where "Accademics" claim Pakistan's are super successful because they are Central Punjabi's

 

[mani1]

Violence was a way of life on the south side of Glasgow and simply straying on to a neighbouring gang's territory was enough to spark off a "pangaa'', which is Punjabi for a scrap according to Imran Yaqub.


As a teenager Yaqub was in the Young Shields, one of the most notorious gangs in Pollokshields. "Young Shields followed trouble, rather than trouble following Young Shields, " he said.

Known then to his fellow gang members as Minta, he was involved in countless territorial battles with other Asian gangs, was stabbed in the leg and finally landed in prison on an attempted murder charge.

Now 25, he has turned his back on gang violence, has married and is rediscovering his faith.

He remembers Pollokshields as a sharply-divided community where the white and Asian populations lived separate lives. "The only time you mix in with white people is at work. Apart from that, you don't see one another.

"In Pollokshields the doctors, dentists, accountants are all Asian. You eat and shop at Asian businesses. Unless you go to the city centre you will not interact with a Scottish person."

Most of his fights were with other Asian gangs. Whether it was the Glasgow or Edinburgh Mela (multi-cultural arts festival), an Asian club night or a football tournament, trouble was inevitable.

"Every time there was a gathering of Asians, especially males from different parts of the city in one place, it would kick off, " said Yaqub. "Looking back now, we would fight for the most stupid and silliest reasons. It could be because someone had given you a strange look or over what someone had said to you on the phone a few weeks before."

Everyone carried a weapon, and Yaqub was stabbed once during a fight outside a nightclub. However, it was an incident in January 2003 that changed his life. Driving with some friends, he was confronted by a rival Asian gang member who pulled out a gun. He said he had no choice but to drive towards him. He was charged with attempted murder and sentenced to five years, but released after serving half his sentence.

Asian gangs have been a fixture of Glasgow life since the early 1960s.

The first gang was formed in the Gorbals to defend the newly-arrived immigrants, then mostly from the Pakistani Punjab.

As more immigrants arrived and the community spread, more gangs emerged in Pollokshields, Govanhill, Woodlands and along Paisley Road West.

Adeel Ibrahim, a member of the Islamic Society of Britain, visits Muslim inmates in young offenders' institutions.

He said: "Many come from dysfunctional families and have no aspirations. I don't think anyone has sat down with them and asked them what they want to do in life.

"Their role models are people who are involved in drugs and who drive around in fancy cars. It is easy money, and they are attracted to such a lifestyle."

Khalid, from the west end of Glasgow, was beaten during a fight with Asian gang members. A hatchet, glass bottles and a wheel brace were used as weapons in the fight, which happened on a city street in daylight.

He fell awkwardly, tearing his cruciate ligament, and as he lay in the street a bottle was smashed over his head and he was attacked with the wheel brace.

Now a youth worker, he tries to deter others from joining gangs.

He said: "My message to the kids is that they need to get a job or an education. I don't want them to waste their lives hanging around the streets; it is no life."

Nevertheless, Umar Ansari, 27, believes the Pollokshields gang problem has eased in recent years.

"Pollokshields has had a problem with gangs in the past. Some of the youngsters are very insular. The only time some of them have travelled out of the area has been for a fight, but the situation has changed considerably, " he said.

Mr Ansari co-ordinates youth work at the Youth Counselling Service Agency (YCSA) in Pollokshields, an organisation which he thinks is changing attitudes.

He said: "Many young people who could have been dragged into the gang culture now have the option to come into the YCSA and spend time in a safe and secure environment. It is better for them to be with us than on the streets."

Imran Azam is a journalist with The iWitness, Scotland's only Muslim newspaper

http://www.asianimage.co.uk/news/1020787.asian_gang_life_in_glasgow/

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

Most academics tend to actually state that those from the Central Punjab region (and especially those that came originally from East Punjab) have become quite successful

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...JAhXBmg4KHfFsD5gQ6AEIIDAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...ans Overseas: Migration and Ethnicity&f=false

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...JAhXF6A4KHZrqBusQ6AEIIDAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

View attachment 71925
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...nd Offerings among British Pakistanis&f=false

Academics aren't correct. Living in an area full of Pakistanis I can tell you how it is. Some punjabis born in Pakistan come for education and do well. But there's not a huge difference between Punjabis and others. The 2nd generation Punjabis, Kashmiris and Pathans aren't hugely different in terms of antisocial yobbos across the three types....

 

[Wasim_Waqar]

The Pakistani community has failed in my opinion. For every 1-2 good guys, here are 40-50 antisocial elements. Some think the police want to keep us down so they let low level criminals do what they want.

 

[Musakhel]

They are mostly asylum seekers and dodgy students and Canadian counterparts success has been highlighted in my previous post.

This is somewhat true, many claim to be gay, ahmadi, chrisitan etc etc in order to get asylum, many were even pretending to be afghans in order to get asylum in europe.

 

[Greenshadow]

Yeah they aren't faring too well..

 

[Yossarian]

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...JAhXF6A4KHZrqBusQ6AEIIDAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

That's totally incorrect.

The vast majority of those who came in the late 50's to late 60's, from the areas around Lyallpur (Faisalabad), Sargodha, Montgomery (Sahiwal) were from the surrounding villages and not from the cities themselves, and they came to work as labourers in the cotton mills of the towns surrounding Manchester (Rochdale, Bury, Bolton, Blackburn, Oldham...) and the woollen mills around Leeds/Bradford/Huddersfield and the surrounding towns.

Most of those who came from these villages were mainly either young Arain men whose families each owned a few 'murabba' around the village, or semi-skilled but uneducated village tradesmen such as carpenters (lohar).

They in turn brought their families over in the late 60's/ early-mid 70's - just before the cotton mills and woollen mills started to shut down causing mass unemployment to these towns in Lancashire & West Yorkshire.

And of course, being the newcomers, and less educated, these immigrants were the first to be made unemployed, and the last to be hired when jobs became available.

What you see happening in these Northern towns is a direct consequence of the backgrounds and those early immigrants and the devastation caused by mass unemployment in the 70's - 80's.

Contrast the above with the students (from middle class urban backgrounds), doctors, engineers etc. from Pakistan who first emigrated to North America.

 

[Salma_T]

It's not getting worse according to Government stats.



http://www.ethnicity.ac.uk/medialib...mployment-persisted-between-1991-2011 (1).pdf



http://www.ethnicity.ac.uk/medialib...ethnic-inequalities-in-education-changing.pdf



http://www.ethnicity.ac.uk/medialib...es-to-live-in-deprived-neighbourhoods (1).pdf

Academics aren't correct. Living in an area full of Pakistanis I can tell you how it is. Some punjabis born in Pakistan come for education and do well. But there's not a huge difference between Punjabis and others. The 2nd generation Punjabis, Kashmiris and Pathans aren't hugely different in terms of antisocial yobbos across the three types....

from many studies it shows it takes about 3 generations for immigrant community to be on par with the local community. I don't know where you live but it is improving and by constantly bashing it isn't doing the community any favours.

I know of illiterate parents mirpuri ones whose children have done very well and not criminals and ones that are but I feel the criminal aspect is more to do with the environment at home than parents education level. Also as as community we tend to value achievements as degree yet not look at sucess in trades etc.

 

[Yossarian]

from many studies it shows it takes about 3 generations for immigrant community to be on par with the local community. I don't know where you live but it is improving and by constantly bashing it isn't doing the community any favours.

I know of illiterate parents mirpuri ones whose children have done very well and not criminals and ones that are but I feel the criminal aspect is more to do with the environment at home than parents education level. Also as as community we tend to value achievements as degree yet not look at sucess in trades etc.

Completely agree. Also see post #40 above.

 

[PakLFC]

Can't say an entire community has failed altogether. Many have done very poorly especially today's generation of youngsters involved in crime. Other's have left school without any educational qualification so struggled to hold down good jobs. A good many have excelled as well thanks to hard work and guidance. On a whole we must do better. I read somewhere that more Pakistanis are now enrolled at universities now then ever before.

 

[miandadrules]

I'm not sure how you can define failed.

Despite some very serious issues that have plagued Pakistan and its diaspora, especially British Pakistanis, they have made some impressive strides too.

I don't have time to write a detailed response which covers the various issues and nuance to this issue at the moment. But there are a couple of things I'd like to add.

Firstly, with regards to the community failing. It faces huge obstacles but to say it has failed is way off. They have made strides in many areas both professionally and culturally. Even in the cities that were mentioned there have been people that have made an impact.

For example, the healthcare sector is heavily dependent on British Pakistanis. Pull them out and the entire thing collapses. So I wouldn't call that a failure.


Secondly, I see a lot of passing the blame from all sides to absolve themselves of responsibility.

Like it or not Pakistan and Pakistanis, including expats have huge problems, which nobody is willing to even acknowledge let alone tackle. Everyone is more than willing to demonise a group in a futile attempt to cover their own failings.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

My family has been massively successful, and the community I come from generally has done very well. That said, I accept that I don't live in any of the cities which are generally regarded with Pakistani immigrant community so can't really comment on what goes on there. Generally I have found that those who come from uneducated backgrounds tend to start at a lower rung, but they are usually hard working and resourceful and usually make their way up the ladder even if it isn't glamorous.

Of course there are also those who look for short cuts and will get involved in drug dealing or scams, but this goes on all over England, it's not restricted to the Pakistani community. As I said in the other thread, where I live the drug scene is dominated by local white gangs, and when one of their big names dies, the crowds of hero worshippers and admirers who come to pay their respects can run into the hundreds.

 

[PakLFC]

There is a particular group within the Pakistani community that seem to do worse then other's. I don't want to name that group here for the sake of keeping peace. I have read Pakistanis would be doing very well and be much higher in the ladder of progress if they were not holding us back.

 

[Salma_T]

There is a particular group within the Pakistani community that seem to do worse then other's. I don't want to name that group here for the sake of keeping peace. I have read Pakistanis would be doing very well and be much higher in the ladder of progress if they were not holding us back.

You mean Mirpuris......why not say it as you implying it and people are not stupid and know exactly what you mean. Name the Pakistani communities that are doing really well? You cannot compare the success of people who have come from cities and are educated compared to illiterate farmers who came over to plug the hole in the labour shortage. Some have done well and others haven't but I still feel things are getting better not worse.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

from many studies it shows it takes about 3 generations for immigrant community to be on par with the local community. I don't know where you live but it is improving and by constantly bashing it isn't doing the community any favours.

I know of illiterate parents mirpuri ones whose children have done very well and not criminals and ones that are but I feel the criminal aspect is more to do with the environment at home than parents education level. Also as as community we tend to value achievements as degree yet not look at sucess in trades etc.

This is bang on. While the Mirpuri community tends to get a lot of blame for being backward, we tend to forget they arrived in Britain later than the other main community here which is from Punjab. They are probably a generation or two behind, but they are moving forward as well in their own way. It's the same story for immigrants in most countries including America. Most of them start off without much and then work their way up.

 

[mani1]

There is a particular group within the Pakistani community that seem to do worse then other's. I don't want to name that group here for the sake of keeping peace. I have read Pakistanis would be doing very well and be much higher in the ladder of progress if they were not holding us back.

Pay Gap by Ethnicity External research* by the Poverty Site showed that:

Almost half of all Bangladeshi and Pakistani employees earned less than £7 per hour. This was a much higher proportion than that for any other ethnic group. Taking this indicator and the indicator on work and ethnicity together, Bangladeshis and Pakistanis had both the lowest work rates and, once in work, the highest likelihood of low pay.

http://www.gov.scot/Topics/People/Eq...hnicity/EthPov

This is Scotland where "Academics" claim Pakistan's are super successful because they are Central Punjabi's

 

[mani1]

There is a particular group within the Pakistani community that seem to do worse then other's. I don't want to name that group here for the sake of keeping peace. I have read Pakistanis would be doing very well and be much higher in the ladder of progress if they were not holding us back.

Also where do these super rich Pakistani's live it was widely reported they live in London and Scotland Poverty figures show they are at the bottom of the barrel in both areas.

Does that same Pakistani group live in Canada dragging other Pakistani's down too? because guess what they are scraping the bottom of the barrel there too.

 

[mani1]

This is bang on. While the Mirpuri community tends to get a lot of blame for being backward, we tend to forget they arrived in Britain later than the other main community here which is from Punjab. They are probably a generation or two behind, but they are moving forward as well in their own way. It's the same story for immigrants in most countries including America. Most of them start off without much and then work their way up.

Actually Mirpuri's arrived first it's the "Urban" Pakistani's whom arrived afterwards under Tony Blairs watch.
They are the Super duper affluent one's in London, just don't look at the poverty figures though

 

[Black Zero]

View attachment 71923

Pakistan-born immigrants are the new face of poverty in urban Canada. The Canadian census revealed that 44 per cent of Pakistan-born immigrants fell below the poverty line making them the second most poverty prone group of immigrants in Canada.
While they may project an aura of opulence during their visits back home, their life in Canada, however, is often full of struggle and frustration. Thousands of Pakistani trained engineers, doctors, and PhDs are driving taxis or are working as security guards in large cities. In fact, one in three taxi-drivers in Canada was born in either India or Pakistan. Several others are unemployed thus becoming a burden on Canadian taxpayers.

http://www.dawn.com/news/718842/pakistani-canadians-falling-below-the-poverty-line

I "interviewed" one pakistani cab driver in toronto, by no mean drivers live under poverty line.

 

[Salma_T]

Actually Mirpuri's arrived first it's the "Urban" Pakistani's whom arrived afterwards under Tony Blairs watch.
They are the Super duper affluent one's in London, just don't look at the poverty figures though

Mirpuris started arriving late 50s/early 60s and it continued in large numbers till mid 80s I would say. They have been here the longest but came with the mindset of going back hence not calling wives & children.

The rich ones are the elites who for whatever reason had to leave Pakistan and those who attended universities in the UK as the top uni in London are full of rich Pakistanis.

 

[Salma_T]

what people declare and what they earn are 2 different things.

 

[mani1]

Mirpuris started arriving late 50s/early 60s and it continued in large numbers till mid 80s I would say. They have been here the longest but came with the mindset of going back hence not calling wives & children.

The rich ones are the elites who for whatever reason had to leave Pakistan and those who attended universities in the UK as the top uni in London are full of rich Pakistanis.

Here are the poverty figures for London





About 70% of people in Inner London in low income are from backgrounds other than White British. About 50% of people living in low income in Outer London are from backgrounds other than White British.

The equivalent figure for the rest of England is around 10%

50% of housing benefit claimants live in Outer London and 40% are in work. - See more at: http://www.npi.org.uk/blog/income-an....MB8XpkVO.dpuf - See more at:

About 10% of White and Indian working-age adults and 15% of Black, Pakistani and Bangladeshi working-age adults lack, but want, paid work.

About 35% of Bangladeshi and Pakistani working-age adults lack paid work and say they do not want it.

 

[Yossarian]

Pay Gap by Ethnicity External research* by the Poverty Site showed that:

Almost half of all Bangladeshi and Pakistani employees earned less than £7 per hour. This was a much higher proportion than that for any other ethnic group. Taking this indicator and the indicator on work and ethnicity together, Bangladeshis and Pakistanis had both the lowest work rates and, once in work, the highest likelihood of low pay.

http://www.gov.scot/Topics/People/Eq...hnicity/EthPov

This is Scotland where "Academics" claim Pakistan's are super successful because they are Central Punjabi's

Read

The same old ignorance based views expressed by those who appear to have no clue whatsoever as to the differences in the backgrounds/ education levels/ wealth and various other social factors between those 1st generations that migrated to the UK versus those that migrated to North America, and how that has a major bearing on the current disparity between the two groups.

It's the equivalent of comparing the affluence levels of those who's parents & grandparents came from affluent areas and went to private schools versus those whose parents & grandparents grew up in the backwaters with little or no schooling. And then claiming that because, on average, the offspring of the latter were not as economically successful as the former it's proof of the latter group being 'failures'.

The above has been pointed out on numerous threads previously and yet the same old rubbish keeps being trotted out on a regular basis with the usual suspects starting new threads on the topic.

That's totally incorrect.

The vast majority of those who came in the late 50's to late 60's, from the areas around Lyallpur (Faisalabad), Sargodha, Montgomery (Sahiwal) were from the surrounding villages and not from the cities themselves, and they came to work as labourers in the cotton mills of the towns surrounding Manchester (Rochdale, Bury, Bolton, Blackburn, Oldham...) and the woollen mills around Leeds/Bradford/Huddersfield and the surrounding towns.

Most of those who came from these villages were mainly either young Arain men whose families each owned a few 'murabba' around the village, or semi-skilled but uneducated village tradesmen such as carpenters (lohar).

They in turn brought their families over in the late 60's/ early-mid 70's - just before the cotton mills and woollen mills started to shut down causing mass unemployment to these towns in Lancashire & West Yorkshire.

And of course, being the newcomers, and less educated, these immigrants were the first to be made unemployed, and the last to be hired when jobs became available.

What you see happening in these Northern towns is a direct consequence of the backgrounds and those early immigrants and the devastation caused by mass unemployment in the 70's - 80's.

Contrast the above with the students (from middle class urban backgrounds), doctors, engineers etc. from Pakistan who first emigrated to North America.

Similar applies to those who came from rural villages in others parts of Pakistan, primarily as labourers, to work in places such as the car industries in the Midlands - which by and large also started being shut down in the mid 70's onwards, causing mass unemployment.

Statistics are meaningless without context and background history.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Actually Mirpuri's arrived first it's the "Urban" Pakistani's whom arrived afterwards under Tony Blairs watch.
They are the Super duper affluent one's in London, just don't look at the poverty figures though

My family arrived in the 50s/60s from Punjab, same with many others that I know. I'm sure there were arrivals during Blair's watch as well, it would be pretty stupid to think that immigration stopped dead from anywhere in the subcontinent full stop. Bangladeshis and Tamils are probably the biggest diaspora since the 70's following the wars in Sri Lanka and India/Pakistan.

 

[Salma_T]

on a whole the pakistani migrants were labourers and when the jobs went so a cycle of unemployment began. The financial success or career choices cannot be compared to North Amercia or Australia (that is where I live). Due to the nature of migration most are white collar/university educated but like on England many are getting relatives over who don't quite fill that criteria.

 

[PakLFC]

Also where do these super rich Pakistani's live it was widely reported they live in London and Scotland Poverty figures show they are at the bottom of the barrel in both areas.

Does that same Pakistani group live in Canada dragging other Pakistani's down too? because guess what they are scraping the bottom of the barrel there too.

Who said anything about Pakistanis being super rich? I don't know about Canadian Pakistanis but in the UK certain groups do better then others. There are some very wealthy Pakistanis in the UK as well who have one well in business. This is not to say that they are well educated or anything like that. Are you saying that Pakistanis in London are wealthy or doing better then those in Scotland?? Are you saying that Mirpuris or Pakistanis as a whole are doing poorly in Canada?. Your comments lack clarity.

[MENTION=52972]Salma_T[/MENTION]
You suggesting Mirpuris means other Pakistanis besides me feel this way as well. They are mostly at the bottom of the ladder compared to other Pakistanis. Are you from that community that you're so touchy about it?? They do struggle to integrate more then other Pakistanis, I find them to be a very backward and closed community as if they're still living in the 1970's!!

 

[mani1]

on a whole the pakistani migrants were labourers and when the jobs went so a cycle of unemployment began. The financial success or career choices cannot be compared to North Amercia or Australia (that is where I live). Due to the nature of migration most are white collar/university educated but like on England many are getting relatives over who don't quite fill that criteria.

Why are Pakistani Canadians doing so poorly then? In fact I'm very surprised at the poverty figures for Indian's considering how well they are doing in the US and to a much lesser extent the UK.

Though I have heard from an elder Sikh chap that in Canada all Sikhs need to get there is a sponsor and health Insurance.

 

[mani1]

Who said anything about Pakistanis being super rich? I don't know about Canadian Pakistanis but in the UK certain groups do better then others. There are some very wealthy Pakistanis in the UK as well who have one well in business. This is not to say that they are well educated or anything like that. Are you saying that Pakistanis in London are wealthy or doing better then those in Scotland?? Are you saying that Mirpuris or Pakistanis as a whole are doing poorly in Canada?. Your comments lack clarity.

[MENTION=52972]Salma_T[/MENTION]
You suggesting Mirpuris means other Pakistanis besides me feel this way as well. They are mostly at the bottom of the ladder compared to other Pakistanis. Are you from that community that you're so touchy about it?? They do struggle to integrate more then other Pakistanis, I find them to be a very backward and closed community as if they're still living in the 1970's!!

What i'm saying is "Academics" and prominent Punjabi Politician's such as Yasmin claim London, Scotland,Canada etc are full of super affluent Urban Pakistani's infact Yasmin went even further and stated Pakistani's in London are sons and daughters of Drs and Lawyers and are super successful in London because Mirpuri's don't live there to drag them down.

Look at the poverty figures posted here regarding "Urban" Pakistan's in London, Scotland and Canada.
Would you call them successful?

 

[Yossarian]

My family arrived in the 50s/60s from Punjab, same with many others that I know. I'm sure there were arrivals during Blair's watch as well, it would be pretty stupid to think that immigration stopped dead from anywhere in the subcontinent full stop. Bangladeshis and Tamils are probably the biggest diaspora since the 70's following the wars in Sri Lanka and India/Pakistan.

The difference is in the backgrounds of those who came in the late 50's and early 60's versus those new arrivals since the 80's onwards.

Those arriving in the late 50's and early 60's were 'invited in' as labourers due to the labour shortages in the cotton and woollen mills of the North and the heavy industries of the Midlands, where most of those arrivals from Pakistan settled. The Northern cotton & mills, and the Midlands heavy industries, started shutting down in the 70's causing mass unemployment. The immigrant communities in the North and Midlands are still suffering from the after effects of the mid 70's - early 80's.

In contrast, the more recent arrivals have been students, professionals and such like (excluding those coming as spouses that is - but even then they are more educated than the early pioneers of the 50's and 60's).

 

[Salma_T]

[MENTION=142169]PakLFC[/MENTION] yes I am from that community and I know there is good and bad in the community. I have outlined the reason for the lack of success. What do you mean when saying integration?

 

[PakLFC]

What i'm saying is "Academics" and prominent Punjabi Politician's such as Yasmin claim London, Scotland,Canada etc are full of super affluent Urban Pakistani's infact Yasmin went even further and stated Pakistani's in London are sons and daughters of Drs and Lawyers and are super successful in London because Mirpuri's don't live there to drag them down.

Look at the poverty figures posted here regarding "Urban" Pakistan's in London, Scotland and Canada.
Would you call them successful?

As Navjot Sidhu says "statistics are like miniskirts....". I think the Pakistani performance is improving though the lady you mentioned may have exaggerated in her claims but there are many academically successful Pakistanis as well. In terms of salary many do earn minimum wage yet an increasing number of Pakistanis are also attending university. I am not jealous of Indian's neither will I attempt to undermine them, good for them that they've done well. We can learn from them in this regard. As for Mirpuris they do often perform poorly compared to other Pakistanis. This is not at attack on their culture but plain truth from what I know.

 

[mani1]

Who said anything about Pakistanis being super rich? I don't know about Canadian Pakistanis but in the UK certain groups do better then others. There are some very wealthy Pakistanis in the UK as well who have one well in business. This is not to say that they are well educated or anything like that. Are you saying that Pakistanis in London are wealthy or doing better then those in Scotland?? Are you saying that Mirpuris or Pakistanis as a whole are doing poorly in Canada?. Your comments lack clarity.

[MENTION=52972]Salma_T[/MENTION]
You suggesting Mirpuris means other Pakistanis besides me feel this way as well. They are mostly at the bottom of the ladder compared to other Pakistanis. Are you from that community that you're so touchy about it?? They do struggle to integrate more then other Pakistanis, I find them to be a very backward and closed community as if they're still living in the 1970's!!

May be you should read up on Honour killings. Theres also a documentery on Panarama regarding forced marriages. There's also a book written by a women from Lahore regarding this.

But unlike most teenagers in the UK, Shafilea was torn between two cultures. Her parents, an ultra-conservative Pakistani couple who were born in the rural village of Uttam in the Gujrat district, wanted her to marry a cousin in his late 20s, a decade older than their daughter, and become a devoted wife, possibly never to return to the UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/aug/03/shafilea-ahmed-history-of-violence

If you want any more literature regarding backwards mentality let me know there is plenty

 

[mani1]

As Navjot Sidhu says "statistics are like miniskirts....". I think the Pakistani performance is improving though the lady you mentioned may have exaggerated in her claims but there are many academically successful Pakistanis as well. In terms of salary many do earn minimum wage yet an increasing number of Pakistanis are also attending university. I am not jealous of Indian's neither will I attempt to undermine them, good for them that they've done well. We can learn from them in this regard. As for Mirpuris they do often perform poorly compared to other Pakistani. This is not at attack on their culture but plain truth from what I know.

What are these said plain truths based on? Please provide evidence

 

[PakLFC]

[MENTION=142169]PakLFC[/MENTION] yes I am from that community and I know there is good and bad in the community. I have outlined the reason for the lack of success. What do you mean when saying integration?

We are not talking about the good or bad in a community that is obvious but progress and educational qualifications. I've not read the mail where you have explained the reason's about why most Mirpuris live in ghetto's!. By integration I mean from my experience they mostly don't even make friend's with non-Mirpuri Pakistanis never mind non Pakistanis. This could be partly because most Pakistanis like I don't understand the language they speak. It's very different to traditional Punjabi and Urdu.

 

[hafeezrocks]

It's not only the issue at accumulating wealth, but as far as integration within the society is concerned, I haven't seen a group more isolated than the Mirpuris in the UK. Many of them even after being born in the UK are more fanatic, backward and conservative in their thoughts than the Pakistanis back home. Plus their obsession with cousin marriages is baffling. No matter how good or bad a family is doing, they would want to get their younger ones married with a cousin back home, means flying half way around the world just to find partners.

I do not want to comment about disproportionate participation in crime, Drug dealings and forced marriages / honour killings.

 

[PakLFC]

What are these said plain truths based on? Please provide evidence

From my experience with them at school, college and having them as neighbours. Also talking to them on internet forums and in some cases social circles as well. Such forms of evidence can't be provided. https://web.warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/C... Papers in Ethnic Relations/ReprintP No.2.pdf is an interesting read though.

 

[Salma_T]

Of course there is educational success in my community. We have family friends stretching back 40/50 yrs who East African Insians and other another family from Lucknow. Many of my relatives have married pakistanis what else do you need to know as every mirpuri isn't the same and as I said things are improving re the emphasis on education etc.

 

[hafeezrocks]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/jul/18/july7.religion

An Article on " History of Britain's Mirpur population which may help to explain why some became suicide bombers "

Even the press in UK is differentiating between Mirpur and all Pakistanis.

 

[mani1]

From my experience with them at school, college and having them as neighbours. Also talking to them on internet forums and in some cases social circles as well. Such forms of evidence can't be provided. https://web.warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/C... Papers in Ethnic Relations/ReprintP No.2.pdf is an interesting read though.

Similar reports are written about how much high fliers Pakistani's are in London and Scotland because Mirpuris are a tiny minority there.
The actual truth is embarrisngly the opposite.

In my experience most "Urban" Pakistani recent arrivals are fraudulent asylum seekers if you want to see literature regarding this please ask.

 

[mani1]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/jul/18/july7.religion

An Article on " History of Britain's Mirpur population which may help to explain why some became suicide bombers "

Even the press in UK is differentiating between Mirpur and all Pakistanis.

Another article full of fiction

Life of July 7 bomber Shehzad Tanweer celebrated by family in Pakistan

Villagers at Chak 477 in the Punjab offered prayers for Shehzad Tanweer, who killed seven people and injured 171 when he blew himself up on a Circle line train near Aldgate.
One resident said Tanweer was described as a "shahid" or martyr at the gathering, the third held to remember death of the suicide bomber.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/226...Tanweer-celebrated-by-family-in-Pakistan.html

 

[PakLFC]

Similar reports are written about how much high fliers Pakistani's are in London and Scotland because Mirpuris are a tiny minority there.
The actual truth is embarrisngly the opposite.

In my experience most "Urban" Pakistani recent arrivals are fraudulent asylum seekers if you want to see literature regarding this please ask.

We are talking about Mirpuris being at the bottom of the ladder amongst Pakistani people. You keep diverting the attention to saying others are doing terribly as well nonetheless better then Mirpuris. I know many Pakistanis are failed asylum seekers that is not the point so stick to the subject. We are talking of Mirpuri community's isolation in the UK and their backwardness. Many don't even consider themselves Pakistanis but Kashmiris!

 

[boomboomcheema]

It all depends on the quality of immigrants. If United States also had predominant migrations only from a region like Mirpur, then the Pakistanis in US as whole would hold the same downtrodden reputation as ones in the UK.

If a country let's a large group of people with a peasant mentality, then you can't expect magical integration any sooner. I would say some Mirpuris are still living in the 70s.

 

[TSA321]

From my experience with them at school, college and having them as neighbours. Also talking to them on internet forums and in some cases social circles as well. Such forms of evidence can't be provided. https://web.warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/C... Papers in Ethnic Relations/ReprintP No.2.pdf is an interesting read though.

You're right about performance in school.

http://www.manchester.gov.uk/download/meetings/id/16099/5_attainment_and_attendance

 

[mani1]

Leeds-born Hussain went to the Ingram Road Primary School nursery aged three and later moved to Matthew Murray comprehensive school.

He passed GCSEs in English language, literature, mathematics, science, design technology and Urdu, as well as a GNVQ in business studies.

Hussain was due to start university in September and had also agreed to an arranged marriage with a young woman from Pakistan, though no date had been set.

The Metropolitan Police said the bodies of all four 7/7 bombers had been released last week.

The remains of another suicide bomber from Leeds, Shezhad Tanweer, were buried in a remote village in Pakistan last Thursday.

Two hundred attended the funeral of the 22-year-old who killed seven people at Aldgate when he blew himself up.

His parents Mumtaz and Parveen took his coffin to Sumandri in eastern Punjab, where he was buried at the shrine of Pir Barkat Ali Shah, an Islamic saint.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/exclusive-77-suicide-bus-bomb-563851

 

[mani1]

You're right about performance in school.

http://www.manchester.gov.uk/download/meetings/id/16099/5_attainment_and_attendance

Any literature of when Mirpuri's were listed as seperate race and Chinese dropping 30% in two years.

Why are Bengali's and Punjabi's doing so much worse then Afro Caribeans in London despite getting much better GCSE grades than them?

 

[mani1]

We are talking about Mirpuris being at the bottom of the ladder amongst Pakistani people. You keep diverting the attention to saying others are doing terribly as well nonetheless better then Mirpuris. I know many Pakistanis are failed asylum seekers that is not the point so stick to the subject. We are talking of Mirpuri community's isolation in the UK and their backwardness. Many don't even consider themselves Pakistanis but Kashmiris!

You have not provided any evidence of Mirpuri's doing worse than every one else at all.
You have posted crap that has been refuted.

 

[mani1]

It all depends on the quality of immigrants. If United States also had predominant migrations only from a region like Mirpur, then the Pakistanis in US as whole would hold the same downtrodden reputation as ones in the UK.

If a country let's a large group of people with a peasant mentality, then you can't expect magical integration any sooner. I would say some Mirpuris are still living in the 70s.

You should visit Punjabi strongholds like Newham, Ilford etc where indigenous Christians are fast becoming an endangered species. In fact watch the last Whites of the East End.

 

[Salma_T]

[MENTION=142169]PakLFC[/MENTION] so the constantly bashing of mirpuri by the superior punjabis/karachi walas makes them feel better about themselves so be it. Would it be hard for you to acknowledge that things are improving (this kind of bashing is no different to the day in and day out bashing of young Muslim men)

 

[PakLFC]

What is the point of the above article?? Again you are deliberately trying to change the subject by pointing out one incident thereby defying logic. the point is Mirpuris can't integrate and are terrible at their studies. When an Indian says we are much better then you at our studies I have no problems in accepting it because it is a fact. I accept it and tell them we have to improve so thanks for pointing it out! I don't say you have 400 million people living on the street's of Delhi, it's stupid.

 

[PakLFC]

[MENTION=142169]PakLFC[/MENTION] so the constantly bashing of mirpuri by the superior punjabis/karachi walas makes them feel better about themselves so be it. Would it be hard for you to acknowledge that things are improving (this kind of bashing is no different to the day in and day out bashing of young Muslim men)

No one is bashing the Mirpuris neither am I from Karachi or any supposedly cosmopolitan place in Pakistan. My parents also originated from villages as well. If Muslim men engage in terrorism then they deserve to be bashed! That is the problem with Mirpuris that you're just to touchy!