The Pope: good atheists will go to Heaven

[moumotta]

This is the attitude of some religious people I hate. I thought religious was about humility and accepting Islam because of love for God, not to gloat at others? Some people make it, I am the only one right because my religion is right, serves you right for being wrong

Your tone is the gloating tone a kid uses when he says "ha-ha, I was right and you were wrong". Is that what religion stands for? And I can bet you were born into the religion you have now, not converted, so its not even like you made a choice as the ones whom you are targeting did

There was a poster who posted something like "ha ha I am going to heaven and you are not". Not sure if it was the same guy but I like the confidence.

 

[ElRaja]

I would think one who lives a good moral life, helping fellow human beings, not killing others just because of a difference in beliefs, etc even if he prays to no God

So here is where we are putting morality and good behavior over a need to worship (whilst many believers claim that morals come from religions, you will find that morality is the last thing in their list to go to heaven, the first and foremost is worshiping God required number of times. If you want proof of this, please check the Mother Teresa thread) and say being a good person is more important than praying

im a bit confused, not quite sure what your getting at.... i think you might have misunderstood the point i was making or maybe i was too vague...

my point was that a religious head saying you can attain the greatest reward possible in that religion by not following said religion to the tee (including all the ritualistic stuff) is oxymoronic imo.

and if he was not saying that and judging a person purely in terms of christian values, if you took out all the ritualistic stuff out of any religion youd be left with regular morality which imo is a construct of societal evolution. so he would imply that irreligious morality leads to heaven thus rendering his religion redundant.

 

[oyei]

This is the attitude of some religious people I hate. I thought religious was about humility and accepting Islam because of love for God, not to gloat at others? Some people make it, I am the only one right because my religion is right, serves you right for being wrong

Your tone is the gloating tone a kid uses when he says "ha-ha, I was right and you were wrong". Is that what religion stands for? And I can bet you were born into the religion you have now, not converted, so its not even like you made a choice as the ones whom you are targeting did

Calm down kid, no need to get all worked up, read my other post before you emotionally get distressed and start losing your cool, if you do not know how to, join Varun, he has a special J for you to make you relax and smile.

Now, what i've said. As pope have said that all people will go to heaven, and if there is god, thn think about it, wouldn't be nice to see that initial expression on people face who do not believe in god when god pop out of behind the curtain saying " told ya so". Now that expression would be worth capturing and posting on fb.

Now lets examine your prejudice. How can you say for certain that i'm muslim, or i practice any religion, or i still practice a religion i was born into, or i was born into a family who practice any religion? So please stop betting, i know how prevalent is illegal betting in india but try.

 

[coca-cola]

God doesnt take revenge.. He just takes the good souls under his fold, and keeps the bad ones away. Hell and Heaven are but the distance from God. Like being in the lap of mother is heaven, and being away from her is hell..same with God.

I'm sorry, but these long distance charges include an eternally burning fire, snakes, demons and the most atrocious assortments of ills ever imaginable? Sounds like bloody AT&T, NOT God.

 

[Buffet]

Ok! Now which actions would qaulify to be accepted in hell. Stealing, lieing, murder, litering, back bitting, it is never ending list, so pick one.

Well if actions to qualify for hell are vastly different then listing criterion for some religions will really seem funny in context of your post but others might not.

Heinous crime of denying XYZ god existence seems very funny. But if you put heinous crime stealing, murder in then it won't draw the same chuckle. First one is really LOL worthy. I hope I made my point.

 

[GentleMan]

I'm sorry, but these long distance charges include an eternally burning fire, snakes, demons and the most atrocious assortments of ills ever imaginable? Sounds like bloody AT&T, NOT God.

those are symbolic and figurative ideas..just like rivers of wine and milk and honey in paradise is. nothing is more painful than being all alone in the vast darkness of the universe for eternity. and nothing is more blissful than being in the lap of God forever.

 

[TM Riddle]

those are symbolic and figurative ideas..just like rivers of wine and milk and honey in paradise is. nothing is more painful than being all alone in the vast darkness of the universe for eternity. and nothing is more blissful than being in the lap of God forever.

I would rather be alone in the universe for eternity then being in the lap of a dictator.

 

[shan]

What about entertaiment in heaven? I think life will get boring after few years with virgins and i dont even like honey. And being lactose intolerant also rule out milk.

 

[UP]

The pope will be the first one in hell. wc limohsin :kb24 and few other nuts.

 

[TM Riddle]

What about entertaiment in heaven? I think life will get boring after few years with virgins and i dont even like honey. And being lactose intolerant also rule out milk.

I m sure they will arrange cricket matches for you there with Azharuddin, jadeja, prabhakar , Amir , asif , butt , Malik ,sreesanth etc etc making in the teams

 

[James]

Is this why most Atheists are so self centered that they consider themselves their own Gods?

wth?

 

[oyei]

I m sure they will arrange cricket matches for you there with Azharuddin, jadeja, prabhakar , Amir , asif , butt , Malik ,sreesanth etc etc making in the teams

It will probably the most boring and slow match to watch, everyone trying to underperform.

 

[ElRaja]

wth?

 

[SwingNSeam]

I would rather be alone in the universe for eternity then being in the lap of a dictator.

kehnay aur kernay main bara farq hai.

 

[MenInG]

Disgruntled Pope Francis pulls himself free from a woman's clutch in Vatican City

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[MenInG]

VATICAN CITY; Pope Francis apologised on Wednesday for slapping a woman who had grabbed him as he greeted a crowd of devotees, shortly before he delivered a speech denouncing “every form of violence against women.”

The image of a visibly annoyed Pope Francis slapping his way free from the clutches of an admirer as he walked by Catholic faithful on New Year’s Eve instantly went viral on social media. A personal apology followed.

“We lose patience many times,” he confessed.

“It happens to me too. I apologise for the bad example given yesterday,” the head of the Catholic church said before celebrating Mass at the Vatican.

ARTICLE CONTINUES AFTER AD

Twitter enthusiasts commented on the pontiff’s prompt riposte to the exuberant woman.

Pope Francis had greeted children before the Nativity scene on Saint Peter’s square and was turning away when a woman who had crossed herself then cried out something, yanked his hand and almost caused him to fall.

The 83-year-old pope grimaced and scowled before managing to break free, slapping her hand twice as a security guard intervened.

The pontiff continued his tour, walking with some difficulty while maintaining a slightly greater distance from visitors, and gradually relaxed again as he met with other children.

Twitter comments revealed some support for his instinctive reaction.

“I’m not a Catholic, but the woman is wrong. It even seemed as if the Pope experienced pain at one moment,” one comment read. Others were less favourable, however.

“Yikes. She was totally wrong but his reaction was not very Pope like,” another commented.

The blessing of God for all, he said, was “not magic but requires patience, patience and love.” The pontiff then repeated “patience and love” in a comment that was not contained in a text distributed to media ahead of time and which seemed to be his reaction to what had occurred the night before.

The pope is known to enjoy greeting the public, and also has a reputation for speaking his mind and having a determined temperament.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1525810/pope-sorry-for-slapping-woman

 

[Firebat]

Pope Francis begins historic Iraq visit despite virus and security risks

Pope Francis has arrived in Iraq for the first ever papal visit there, and his first international trip since the start of the coronavirus pandemic.

Covid and security fears have made this his riskiest visit yet, but the 84-year-old insisted he was "duty bound".

He will try to reassure the dwindling Christian community and foster inter-religious dialogue - meeting Iraq's most revered Shia Muslim cleric.

The Pope will also celebrate Mass at a stadium in Irbil in the north.

About 10,000 Iraqi Security Forces personnel are being deployed to protect the Pope, while round-the-clock curfews are also being imposed to limit the spread of Covid.

Iraq's PM Mustafa al-Kadhimi greeted the Pope at the airport. On the plane, Francis said he was happy to be travelling again, adding: "This is an emblematic trip and it is a duty towards a land that has been martyred for so many years."

He had earlier said Iraqi Christians could not be "let down for a second time", after Pope John Paul II cancelled plans for a trip in 1999 when talks with then-President Saddam Hussein's government broke down.

In the two decades since then, one of the world's oldest Christian communities has seen its numbers plummet from 1.4 million to about 250,000, less than 1% of the population.

Many have fled abroad to escape the violence that has plagued the country since the US-led invasion in 2003 that ousted Saddam.

Tens of thousands were also displaced when Islamic State (IS) militants overran northern Iraq in 2014, destroying their historic churches, seizing their property, and giving them the choice to pay a tax, convert, leave or face death.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-56282598

 

[Last Monetarist]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pope-iraq/pope-on-iraq-visit-decries-violence-in-the-name-of-god-as-greatest-blasphemy-idUSKBN2AY07Y

Pope Francis walked down a narrow alleyway in the holy city of Najav to hold a historic meeting with Iraq’s top Shi’ite cleric and visited the birthplace of the Prophet Abraham on Saturday to condemn violence in the name of God as “the greatest blasphemy”.

The inter-religious events, one in a dusty, built-up city and the other on a desert plain 200 km (125 miles) away, reinforced the main theme of the pope’s risky trip to Iraq - that the country has suffered far too much, and the killing has often been sectarian.

“From this place, where faith was born, from the land of our father Abraham, let us affirm that God is merciful and that the greatest blasphemy is to profane his name by hating our brothers and sisters,” Francis said at the ancient site of Ur where Abraham was born.

With the desert wind blowing his white cassock, Francis, sitting with Muslim, Christian and Yazidi leaders, spoke within sight of the archaeological dig of the 4,000 year-old city that comprises a pyramid-style Ziggurat, a residential complex, temples and palaces.

Hours earlier in Najaf, Francis met Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, a visit that sent a strong signal for inter-religious dialogue and coexistence.

The U.S. invasion of 2003 plunged Iraq into years of sectarian conflict. Security has improved since the defeat of Islamic State in 2017, but Iraq continues to be a theatre for global and regional score-settling, especially a bitter U.S.-Iran rivalry that has played out on Iraqi soil.

Sistani, 90, is one of the most influential figures in Shi’ite Islam, both within Iraq and beyond, and their meeting was the first between a pope and such a senior Shi’ite cleric.

The meeting took place at the humble home Sistani has rented for decades, near the golden-domed Imam Ali shrine in Najaf. Francis had to walk about 30 metres (yards) along an alleyway to get to it after leaving his car.

The pope’s visit to Iraq has been intensely blanketed in security and the roads his convoy traveled along on Saturday were closed to other traffic. Pickup trucks mounted with machine guns and even tanks were stationed in some places along the routes.

After the meeting, Sistani called on world religious leaders to hold great powers to account and for wisdom and sense to prevail over war. He added Christians should live like all Iraqis in peace and coexistence.

Although Abraham is considered the father of Christians, Muslims and Jews, no Jewish representative was present at the inter-religious event in Ur.

In 1947, a year before Israel’s birth, Iraq’s Jewish community numbered around 150,000. Now their numbers are in single figures.

A local Church official said Jews were contacted and invited but the situation for them was “complicated” particularly as they have no structured community. However, in similar past events in predominantly Muslim countries, a senior foreign Jewish figure has attended.

“Hostility, extremism and violence are not born of a religious heart: they are betrayals of religion,” the pope said at Ur. “We believers cannot be silent when terrorism abuses religion; indeed, we are called unambiguously to dispel all misunderstandings,” he said.

Islamic State militants, who tried to establish a caliphate covering several countries, ravaged northern Iraq from 2014-2017, killing Christians as well as Muslims who opposed the insurgents.

Iraq’s Christian community, one of the oldest in the world, has been particularly devastated, falling to about 300,000 from about 1.5 million before the U.S. invasion and the brutal Islamist militant violence that followed.

At Ur, Francis praised young Muslims for helping Christians repair their churches “when terrorism invaded the north of this beloved country”.

Rafah Husein Baher, a member of the small, ancient Sabean Mandaean religion, thanked the pope for making the trip despite the many problems in the country, which include a surge in COVID-19 cases and a recent spate of rocket and suicide bomb attacks.

“Your visit means a triumph of virtue, it is a symbol of appreciation to Iraqis, Blessed is he who uproots fear from souls.”

Later, in a homily at a Saturday evening service at Baghdad’s Chaldean Cathedral of Saint Joseph, Francis again paid tribute to “those of our brothers and sisters who here too have suffered prejudice and indignities, mistreatment and persecutions for the name of Jesus”.

Coronavirus restrictions limited the number of people allowed in the church to about 100, but they included the country’s president, foreign minister and the speaker of the house of parliament, all of whom are Muslim.

The pope, whose visit to Iraq began on Friday, travels on Sunday north to Mosul, a former Islamic State stronghold, where churches and other buildings still bear the scars of conflict.

 

[sweep_shot]

Pope Francis denounces extremism on historic visit to Iraq

Pope Francis has condemned extremism in the name of religion on a historic visit to Iraq where he discussed the plight of the Christian minority.

Hostility, extremism and violence are "betrayals of religion" he told an inter-faith prayer service.

Iraq has been wracked by religious and sectarian violence, both against minorities and between Shia and Sunni Muslims too.

Pope Francis also visited one of Shia Islam's most powerful figures.

Receiving the head of the Roman Catholic Church at his home in the holy city of Najaf, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani said Christians should be able to live in peace and security like all other Iraqis.

The meeting was seen as a highly symbolic moment in the Pope's visit, which is his first international trip since the start of the coronavirus pandemic more than a year ago, and the first ever papal visit to Iraq.

Covid-19 and security fears have made this his riskiest trip yet.

The 84-year-old leader of the Catholic Church earlier told reporters that he had felt "duty-bound" to make the "emblematic" journey, which will see him visit several sites over four days in Iraq.

Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-56302173.

 

[Last Monetarist]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pope-iraq/peace-more-powerful-than-war-pope-francis-says-in-iraqs-ruined-city-of-mosul-idUSKBN2AZ04N

Pope Francis heard Muslim and Christian residents in the ruined Iraqi city of Mosul tell of their lives under brutal Islamic State rule on Sunday, blessing their vow to rise up from ashes and promising them “fraternity is more durable than fratricide.”

Francis, on a historic first visit by a pope to Iraq, visited the northern city to encourage the healing of sectarian wounds and to pray for the dead of any religion.

The 84-year-old pope saw ruins of houses and churches in a square that was the old town’s thriving centre before Mosul was occupied by Islamic State from 2014 to 2017. He sat surrounded by skeletons of buildings, dangling concrete staircases, and cratered ancient churches, most too dangerous to enter.

“Together we say no to fundamentalism. No to sectarianism and no to corruption,” the Chaldean archbishop of Mosul, Najeeb Michaeel, told the pope.

Much of the old city was destroyed in 2017 during the bloody battle by Iraqi forces and an international military coalition to drive out Islamic State.

Francis, who flew to Mosul by helicopter, was visibly moved by the earthquake-like devastation around him. He prayed for all of the city’s dead.

“How cruel it is that this country, the cradle of civilization, should have been afflicted by so barbarous a blow, with ancient places of worship destroyed and many thousands of people – Muslims, Christians, Yazidis and others – forcibly displaced or killed,” he said.

“Today, however, we reaffirm our conviction that fraternity is more durable than fratricide, that hope is more powerful than hatred, that peace more powerful than war.”

Intense security has surrounded his trip to Iraq. Military pickup trucks mounted with machine guns escorted his motorcade and plainclothes security men mingled in Mosul with the handles of guns emerging from black backpacks worn on their chests.

In an apparent direct reference to Islamic State, Francis said hope could never be “silenced by the blood spilled by those who pervert the name of God to pursue paths of destruction.”

He then read a prayer repeating one of the main themes of his trip, that it is always wrong to hate, kill or wage war in God’s name.

Fighters of Islamic State, a Sunni militant group that tried to establish a caliphate across the region, ravaged northern Iraq from 2014-2017, killing Christians as well as Muslims who opposed them.

Iraq’s Christian community, one of the oldest in the world, has been particularly devastated by the years of conflict, falling to about 300,000 from about 1.5 million before the U.S. invasion of 2003 and the brutal Islamist militant violence that followed.

Father Raid Adel Kallo, pastor of the destroyed Church of the Annunciation, told how in 2014 he fled with 500 Christian families and how fewer than 70 families are present now.

“The majority have emigrated and are afraid to return,” he said.

“But I live here, with two million Muslims who call me father and I am living my mission with them,” he added, telling the pope of a committee of Mosul families who promote peaceful coexistence among Muslims and Christians.

A Muslim member of the Mosul committee, Gutayba Aagha, urged the Christians who had fled to “return to their properties and resume their activities”.

Francis flew by helicopter to Qaraqosh, a Christian enclave that was overrun by Islamic State fighters, and visited a church whose courtyard was used by the insurgents as a firing practice range.

He then said Mass in Erbil, capital of the autonomous Kurdistan region, where thousands of people packed a stadium.

In both Qaraqosh and Erbil, he received the most tumultuous welcomes of his visit. And in both places most people were not wearing masks or practicing social distancing despite a rising number of COVID-19 cases in the country.

“This visit gives us hope and courage, it’s as if we’re celebrating a new life,” said Frdos Zora, a nun at the stadium Mass.

At the end of the Mass, the last official event before he returns to Rome on Monday, Francis told the crowd, “Iraq will always remain with me, in my heart”.

He closed by saying “salam, salam, salam” (peace, peace, peace) in Arabic.

 

[Firebat]

Pope defends Iraqi trip despite COVID-19 risk, says God will provide

ABOARD THE PAPAL PLANE (Reuters) - Pope Francis said on Monday that he decided to visit Iraq despite a rise in COVID-19 cases after much prayer and contemplation and suggested God would protect those who came to see him from the virus.

Speaking to reporters on the plane returning from his trip, Francis also said he realised that some conservative Catholics would see his meeting with Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, as “one step from heresy” but that sometimes it was necessary to take a risk in inter-religious relations.

The 84-year-old Francis, speaking while standing for about 50 minutes, said the trip, his first foreign visit in 16 months, had left him much more fatigued than previous ones.

But he said he felt “reborn” after “feeling like I was imprisoned” by coronavirus restrictions. He added that “84 years do not come without baggage” and that he could not say if he would make fewer trips in the future.

While mask and social distancing regulations were respected at some indoor papal gatherings, where participation was limited, thousands of mostly young people attended a Mass at Erbil stadium on Sunday night and most were not abiding by the rules.

The pope has often urged people to respect guidelines of local authorities and the Vatican said before the trip they were confident that Iraqi officials would be able to make people follow the rules.

A reporter asked if he worried that people who came to see him could get sick and possibly even die.

“Trips cook slowly over time in my conscience. And this (the virus threat) is one of the things that most made me think ‘perhaps, perhaps’,” Francis said.

“I thought about it a lot, I prayed a lot over this. And in the end I took the decision freely. It came from within and I said ‘the one who allows me to decide this way will look after the people’,” he said, apparently referring to God.

“That is how I made the decision, after prayer and after awareness of the risks,” he said.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...d-19-risk-says-god-will-provide-idUSKBN2B01HP

 

[Justcrazy]

What the Pope has said is his personal opinion, not the biblical fact. It's a political statement which has no weight.

 

[sweep_shot]

Catholic Church 'cannot bless same-sex unions'

The Catholic Church does not have the power to bless same-sex unions, the Vatican office responsible for doctrine has said.

It is "impossible" for God to "bless sin", the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF) said on Monday.

But the CDF did note the "positive elements" in same-sex relationships.

In October, Pope Francis said in a documentary that he thought same-sex couples should be allowed to have "civil unions".

In the Catholic Church, a blessing is given by a priest or other minister in the name of the Church.

On Monday, Pope Francis approved the response by the CDF, saying it was "not intended to be a form of unjust discrimination, but rather a reminder of the truth of the liturgical rite".

Some parishes in recent months, including in Germany and the US, have started giving blessings to people in same-sex relationships as a way to welcome gay Catholics to the church, Reuters news agency reported.

The CDF's response was in answer to the question posed to it: "Does the Church have the power to give the blessing to unions of persons of the same sex?". It replied: "Negative".

The CDF noted that marriage between a man and a woman is sacrament and therefore blessings cannot be extended to same-sex couples.

"For this reason, it is not licit to impart a blessing on relationships, or partnerships, even stable, that involve sexual activity outside of marriage (i.e., outside the indissoluble union of a man and a woman open in itself to the transmission of life), as is the case of the unions between persons of the same sex," it said.

Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-56402096.

 

[pillionrider]

So which heaven does a good atheist enter? There are so many choices of heaven for different religions.

Maybe that's why people get reborn - the wait must get frustrating, reading through all the promo flyers outside each heavenly gate

 

[guna]

Christianity has evolved past its terrible past. You have to appreciate Pope for trying to go with the present situation.

 

[Bewal Express]

Why would atheists want to go to heaven. By their very nature they believe it doesnt exist.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

There is no God. It is just a myth created to keep some sanity among humans and some fear.
Else the way humans are.. We may as well kill each other off and extinct ourselves.

 

[dildilpak]

Why would atheists want to go to heaven. By their very nature they believe it doesnt exist.

And we dont want to go there either even if it exists... its the Pope who wants to send us.

 

[guna]

Why would atheists want to go to heaven. By their very nature they believe it doesnt exist.

It was a good gesture with good intention.

 

[Bewal Express]

And we dont want to go there either even if it exists... its the Pope who wants to send us.

The Pope is better off worrying about himself.

 

[Robert]

I like the idea of Heaven give in Buffy the Vampire Slayer. “I was warm, and happy, and loved, and complete”.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

So which heaven does a good atheist enter? There are so many choices of heaven for different religions.

Maybe that's why people get reborn - the wait must get frustrating, reading through all the promo flyers outside each heavenly gate

Your fellow Indian poster Itachi is busy providing in depth commentary on the thread about Modi being venerated as a god equal to Ram and some other hindu god, Vishnu I think. As an atheist hindu, I am thinking Itachi would have a fairly mundane vision of heaven, so maybe he would be reincarnated as a potted plant or stone to be used to build a future mosque in Pakistan.

 

[ex-q-zit]

Catholic Bishops' President Meets PM Modi On Inviting Pope Francis To India

Catholic Bishops' Conference of India (CBCI) President Mar Andrews Thazhath met Prime Minister Narendra Modi in Parliament today regarding inviting Pope Francis to India.

Giving the detail about the meeting, Thazhath said, "The discussion was regarding inviting the pope to India. PM Modi told me that during his visit to Vatican City last year he has already invited him."

CBCI President further said that PM conveyed to him to make Pope's visit possible the earliest.

It may be recalled that the last Papal Visit happened in 1999 when Atal Bihari Vajpayee was the Prime Minister and Pope John Paul II came.

Modi had invited Pope Francis to visit India during his visit to Italy in October 2021.

NDTV

 

[shaz619]

What he really meant was that they will all burn in hell for eternity

 

[Mamoon]

Andrew Tate’s views are spot on.

Christianity is the most spineless organized religion. No wonder it is dying & has failed to protect itself especially in the west.

It is not a criticism of the religion itself, I have nothing but respect for orthodox Christianity & Christians, but the vast majority of so-called Christians have turned their religion into a joke under the guise of acceptance & tolerance.

Homosexuality, LGBQT nonsense, atheism - all of this is now accepted in modern Christianity & is an insult to the orthodox faith that has existed for 2,000 years.

 

[The_KING]

Andrew Tate’s views are spot on.

Christianity is the most spineless organized religion. No wonder it is dying & has failed to protect itself especially in the west.

It is not a criticism of the religion itself, I have nothing but respect for orthodox Christianity & Christians, but the vast majority of so-called Christians have turned their religion into a joke under the guise of acceptance & tolerance.

Homosexuality, LGBQT nonsense, atheism - all of this is now accepted in modern Christianity & is an insult to the orthodox faith that has existed for 2,000 years.

True.

By changing and altering their religion to fit the changing times, Christians have made a complete mockery of their religion. It's is not a surprise that Christianity is on a decline, especially in the west.

 

[sweep_shot]

Andrew Tate’s views are spot on.

Christianity is the most spineless organized religion. No wonder it is dying & has failed to protect itself especially in the west.

It is not a criticism of the religion itself, I have nothing but respect for orthodox Christianity & Christians, but the vast majority of so-called Christians have turned their religion into a joke under the guise of acceptance & tolerance.

Homosexuality, LGBQT nonsense, atheism - all of this is now accepted in modern Christianity & is an insult to the orthodox faith that has existed for 2,000 years.

Yup.

Christianity doesn't mean much in West nowadays. It has no real structure/backbone anymore. It has been hijacked by leftists. Christianity has become all about whims and desires (in West at least) instead of actual rulings from the scriptures.

However, I think African Christians practice it better. It is due to common sense conservatism in African societies.

From Islamic point of view, Bible has been corrupted; original Bible is lost. I wonder if those confusing/incorrect stuffs are making people abandon Christianity. Either way, they are always welcome to accept Islam which is an upgrade to Christianity and free from corruptions.