The rise of Buddhism in comparison to Hinduism

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Buddhism has had a meteoric rise in the world over the last century, certainly here in the west it is one of the most popular religions/ways of life to the majority religion. Why did Hinduism never catch the imagination in the same way? I don't know that much about either, but would be interested to hear views from our many members here who are fans of the Hindutva revival led by the BJP govt of India.

Thoughts?

 

[akki]

Wont mind much,budhism is from bhaarat as well.Budhism is just a one of the concept of hinduism ,nothing much. Yoga,karma ,etc many concepts remained same...

 

[CricketCartoons]

If Buddha's message had spread more, the world would be a better place today.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Wont mind much,budhism is from bhaarat as well.Budhism is just a one of the concept of hinduism ,nothing much. Yoga,karma ,etc many concepts remained same...

Buddhism is obviously distinct from Hinduism, otherwise why would it have arisen as a separate belief system? Here in the west, Buddhism has many new adherents, not the case for Hinduism which is often abandoned within a generation even by those born into the religion.

 

[OoparCut]

Buddhism is obviously distinct from Hinduism, otherwise why would it have arisen as a separate belief system? Here in the west, Buddhism has many new adherents, not the case for Hinduism which is often abandoned within a generation even by those born into the religion.

Lol. You seem to be quite confident in your ignorance.

 

[JaDed]

Buddhism doesn't have caste issues for one, not much idol worship as well.
As a religion it's only rival in terms of peaceful existence is Jainism, two beautiful religions Jainism.and Buddhism but sadly Jainism is very hard to follow and that's why will remain a subcontinent one.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Buddhism doesn't have caste issues for one, not much idol worship as well.
As a religion it's only rival in terms of peaceful existence is Jainism, two beautiful religions Jainism.and Buddhism but sadly Jainism is very hard to follow and that's why will remain a subcontinent one.

The largest statues of deities in the world are of Buddha. but what is wrong with idol worship?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Lol. You seem to be quite confident in your ignorance.

I am extremely confident in my ignorance, it is a state which allows me to learn much from those like yourself who are much more knowledgeable than I.

As always, welcome new poster.

 

[PetroDollars]

Alot of ignorance in this thread.

Buddah aka Gautama Siddartha was an agnostic. Who didnt belive in idol worshipping, he came up with ideas like mediatation to kill cravings and cure anxiety, depretion, greed, jealousy, anger etc. His idea was you reach 'Nirvana' when the mind is cured of cravings.

When his followers struggled to reach his idea of Nirvana, the followers in India started worshipping Hindu Idols to reach it while his Chiense followers looked towards Taoism to find it, and turned Nirvana into some kind of a heaven in the afterlife. BUDDISAM IS PROBABLY THE MOST CORRUPTED RELIGON TODAY. It was rather a philosophy than a religon.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Alot of ignorance in this thread.

Buddah aka Gautama Siddartha was an agnostic. Who didnt belive in idol worshipping, he came up with ideas like mediatation to kill cravings and cure anxiety, depretion, greed, jealousy, anger etc. His idea was you reach 'Nirvana' when the mind is cured of cravings.

When his followers struggled to reach his idea of Nirvana, the followers in India started worshipping Hindu Idols to reach it while his Chiense followers looked towards Taoism to find it, and turned Nirvana into some kind of a heaven in the afterlife. BUDDISAM IS PROBABLY THE MOST CORRUPTED RELIGON TODAY. It was rather a philosophy than a religon.

This is what I thought. Buddhism is more spirituality rather than a religion.

 

[troodon]

To me Buddha is a great Yoga Guru who did not believe in a lot of rituals that Sanatana Dharma followed.

Buddha never intended to create a new religion. Its his followers after his death that started writing about the ways of Buddha and the practice of meditation and Yoga to attain Nirvana AKA Moksha.

At one point, Majority of India was Buddhist. Indian Kings played a major role in spreading the message to East Asia and Central Asia. The Bhikshu's AKA Sadhu's were lime missionaries and traveled far and wide in spreading the message. So majority of East Asia which were once Hindu became Buddhist.

The similarities in the practices of Buddha made Buddha an Avatar of Vishnu.

Hinduism on the other hand had no missionaries. Its only the Hare Krishna sect that actively spread message and seek converts. It is not very popular in the West, but I do see a lot of hardcore white devotees in Hare Krishna temples in the West.

Buddhism is also a bit easy to follow. It appeals to the Western world a lot better as it relies on controlling the mind to control the urges of the material world.

Till day many Hindu households have a picture of Buddha along with several other Gods.

Buddhism and Jainism to me are the most peaceful religions. Jainism is even more peaceful.

 

[DeadBall]

I'm only 37 yet I am feeling the rise of Budhism in my mind, body and soul. Probably need to work out more and change my outlook in life.

 

[JaDed]

If Buddhism is a philosophy then it's a beautiful one and it's founder not indulging in violence of any kind to promote it speaks volume of HIS greatness.

 

[PakLFC]

Buddhists historically are good peaceful people leaving aside the happenings in Myanmar. Hinduism by and large has never been a missionary faith until the right wing in India showed up that is a recent phenomena. I think the lack of idol worship, god's and goddesses in Buddhism make it much more attractive to the impartial mind. It is far easier to understand compared to Hinduism.

 

[akki]

Buddhism is obviously distinct from Hinduism, otherwise why would it have arisen as a separate belief system? Here in the west, Buddhism has many new adherents, not the case for Hinduism which is often abandoned within a generation even by those born into the religion.

Hinduism has a beauty ,it gives you so many ways to reach god. You can get god by meditation,by karma ,by bhakti etc. So even you are atheist but your deeds are good you still will go to heaven.
And budhism is just a form of hinduism. Budhism is just hinduism without caste system or idol worshiping.A
there is a option or concept in hinduism as well where if you find it easy to focus your mind to worship then there is no need to do idol worship as well....
...

 

[akki]

Buddhists historically are good peaceful people leaving aside the happenings in Myanmar. Hinduism by and large has never been a missionary faith until the right wing in India showed up that is a recent phenomena. I think the lack of idol worship, god's and goddesses in Buddhism make it much more attractive to the impartial mind. It is far easier to understand compared to Hinduism.

Yeah this. Its far more easy to understand than hinduism but if you know either of any one religion of these,then you will knkw most of other one as well...

 

[TM Riddle]

Modern day Buddhism isn't much different from Hinduism philosophy wise.
But imo it's real message got lost over the centuries. I prefer the original version by Siddharth Gautam.

 

[TM Riddle]

Advaita Vedanta is the only philosophy in the world which has ever made sense to me. Thoughts [MENTION=136588]CricketCartoons[/MENTION] ?

 

[PakLFC]

Yeah this. Its far more easy to understand than hinduism but if you know either of any one religion of these,then you will knkw most of other one as well...

True. Sikhism, Hinduism and Buddhism have similarities. This is like the Ibrahimic trilogy of Islam, Christianity and Judaism that have many similarities as well.

 

[Robert]

Were I religious, I would choose Buddhism which makes most intellectual sense to me.

 

[TM Riddle]

Were I religious, I would choose Buddhism which makes most intellectual sense to me.

Which form of Buddhism ?

 

[CricketCartoons]

Were I religious, I would choose Buddhism which makes most intellectual sense to me.

You don't need to be religious to follow the principles of Buddha. While other religions try to control masses, Buddhism liberates them. When an old lady went to Buddha asking him to revive her dead son, he said he will if only she could bring a handful of rice from a family where no one had ever died. Any other religion, and the central character would have performed a miracle to revive the dead son.

Buddha said real superpower is guiding people for their own good, not performing superhuman acts like a magician.

 

[Varun]

Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism - 'cousin' religions.

 

[TM Riddle]

Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism - 'cousin' religions.

Hinduism is not a religion. In fact all 3 of them are Dharma and not religions.
Hinduism is infact not even a Dharma.
The correct term would be Sanatana Dharma. Hinduism was just an umbrella term given by the lazy Brits to the various Indic cultural practices and beliefs which were spread across the whole Bharatvarsha. Even Sikhs , Jains and Buddhists were included under Hinduism.

 

[TM Riddle]

Vedantic philosophies put even the early core Buddhist doctrines to shame.
Adi Shankaracharya single handedly destroyed Buddhism from mainland India via his discourses and debates with various Buddhist scholars.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Allow me get to the point - It just goes to show that religions have been and can be spread through non-violent means. Some are easier to spread, maybe coz they’re more evolved.

 

[TM Riddle]

Allow me get to the point - It just goes to show that religions have been and can be spread through non-violent means. Some are easier to spread, maybe coz they’re more evolved.

Paaji Dharmic and Abrahmic religions are two complete different entities. The latter originated in the harsh environment of middle east and did a brilliant job in uniting various clans and factions which were divided over small petty issues.
Dharmic ones otoh started as reform movements and later on bifurcated into different religions.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Paaji Dharmic and Abrahmic religions are two complete different entities. The latter originated in the harsh environment of middle east and did a brilliant job in uniting various clans and factions which were divided over small petty issues.
Dharmic ones otoh started as reform movements and later on bifurcated into different religions.

In abrahamic religions the older religion didnt respect the prophets of the newer one.. whereas Buddha, Mahavira, Guru Nanak's respect is across the dharmic religions.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Paaji Dharmic and Abrahmic religions are two complete different entities. The latter originated in the harsh environment of middle east and did a brilliant job in uniting various clans and factions which were divided over small petty issues.
Dharmic ones otoh started as reform movements and later on bifurcated into different religions.

Should have clarified - what I mentioned is not my opinion but what I feel is the underlying sentiment of the OP, paaji.
I’ve been on this forum for only a few weeks - but have seen a lot of discussions revolving only around conversions. Someone’s happy, someone is peeved. Someone feels they were not forced, someone feels people were.

 

[TM Riddle]

Should have clarified - what I mentioned is not my opinion but what I feel is the underlying sentiment of the OP, paaji.
I’ve been on this forum for only a few weeks - but have seen a lot of discussions revolving only around conversions. Someone’s happy, someone is peeved. Someone feels they were not forced, someone feels people were.

Just stick for a few weeks more and you are in for a ride.

 

[Slog]

At one point, Majority of India was Buddhist. Indian Kings played a major role in spreading the message to East Asia and Central Asia. The Bhikshu's AKA Sadhu's were lime missionaries and traveled far and wide in spreading the message. So majority of East Asia which were once Hindu became Buddhist.

How did majority of India convert to Hinduism? Which years did it happen?

 

[Slog]

Should have clarified - what I mentioned is not my opinion but what I feel is the underlying sentiment of the OP, paaji.
I’ve been on this forum for only a few weeks - but have seen a lot of discussions revolving only around conversions. Someone’s happy, someone is peeved. Someone feels they were not forced, someone feels people were.

its usually a 5-6 month season and then dies off for a year or so

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Hinduism has a beauty ,it gives you so many ways to reach god. You can get god by meditation,by karma ,by bhakti etc. So even you are atheist but your deeds are good you still will go to heaven.
And budhism is just a form of hinduism. Budhism is just hinduism without caste system or idol worshiping.A
there is a option or concept in hinduism as well where if you find it easy to focus your mind to worship then there is no need to do idol worship as well....
...

Which perhaps answers the question as to why Buddhism is not Hinduism any more than Islam is Judaism. There are core differences at the heart of the religions ( I will continue to refer to them as such as both Hindu, Buddhist and Muslims often say it's a way of life not a religion) and that is the reason why Buddhism arose as a separate entity. Also probably the reason why it has spread around the world whereas Hinduism is mired very deeply in India itself. It could be argued that Hinduism is a racist religion, and I mean that in a factual sense, not as an accusation. Would it be fair to say that Hinduism is deeply tied to the subcontinent and that is why it can't spread to non-Indic regions?

 

[TM Riddle]

How did majority of India convert to Hinduism? Which years did it happen?

The resurgence of what Modern historians refer to as Hinduism began at the time of Gupta Kings. Before that India had been a majority Buddhist for at least 500 years with Peshawar , Mathura and Amravati being its chief centres.
Gupta Kings played a huge role in promoting Hinduism (Although they didn't exhibit any hostile attitude towards Buddhism and it was allowed to flourish in parallel) . But even then Buddhism was able to maintain it's stronghold over India for instance Harshvardhana , The king of North india in 7th century who was earlier a Shaivite converted to Buddhism which gave a huge impetus in expanding it's control over Eastern parts of India.
Huen Tsang(I hope I have pronounced it right) who visited India during the times of Harsha has described Buddhism thriving and prospering in India with Nalanda university being a burgeoning centre of Buddhist studies which attracted students from all over the Asia.
But after that Buddhism became declining in India . Reasons off the top of my head -
1. Rising corruption among Bhikshus in the monasteries. Monks began living a lavish lifestyle thanks to the huge no of donations from the merchants and royals. This led to increase in the corrupt activities in the Sangha and eventually led to downfall of Buddhism.
2. Clever ploy by Brahmans to include Buddha as one of the avataras of Lord Vishnu. This basically subsumed the Buddhist practices inside Hinduism.
3. Rise of scholars such as Shankaracharya and Madhavachrya who were vehemently Anti Buddhist.
4. Rise of Bhakti movement in south India in the form of Alvars , Nayanars and Virasavism which proved to be final nail in the coffin as far as the buddhism in south india was concerned.
5. Spread of Tantrism and inclusion of various Tantrik practices in Buddhism.

All of these factors plus the rise of Islam in India paved the way for Buddhism to become extremely vulnerable. The destruction of Nalanda university by Bakhtiyar Khilji did the final job and it completely got routed out from the place of its birth.

 

[TM Riddle]

Which perhaps answers the question as to why Buddhism is not Hinduism any more than Islam is Judaism. There are core differences at the heart of the religions ( I will continue to refer to them as such as both Hindu, Buddhist and Muslims often say it's a way of life not a religion) and that is the reason why Buddhism arose as a separate entity. Also probably the reason why it has spread around the world whereas Hinduism is mired very deeply in India itself. It could be argued that Hinduism is a racist religion, and I mean that in a factual sense, not as an accusation. Would it be fair to say that Hinduism is deeply tied to the subcontinent and that is why it can't spread to non-Indic regions?

What is Hinduism captain?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

What is Hinduism captain?

Hopefully those of us who live in the west will have a better idea after reading replies in this thread.

 

[TM Riddle]

Hopefully those of us who live in the west will have a better idea after reading replies in this thread.

You didn't answer my question. You described it a racist religion , surely you could come up with a simple definition of Hinduism which led you to this conclusion.

 

[akki]

Which perhaps answers the question as to why Buddhism is not Hinduism any more than Islam is Judaism. There are core differences at the heart of the religions ( I will continue to refer to them as such as both Hindu, Buddhist and Muslims often say it's a way of life not a religion) and that is the reason why Buddhism arose as a separate entity. Also probably the reason why it has spread around the world whereas Hinduism is mired very deeply in India itself. It could be argued that Hinduism is a racist religion, and I mean that in a factual sense, not as an accusation. Would it be fair to say that Hinduism is deeply tied to the subcontinent and that is why it can't spread to non-Indic regions?

Well budhism is just a branch of hinduism. All concepts are same except caste system. Anyway wont mind western people adopt budhism as this is same as hinduism. All these religions are bhaarat religions ,dharmic religions. Caste sysytem is basically based on occupation,not based to discriminate.,But people after centuries for their benefit used it differently. Anyway i didnt mind you called hinduism rascist because you just praised budhism a lot which is tge same thing for us. We dnt feel it seperate religion much.Hopefully more people will adopt budhism .

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You didn't answer my question. You described it a racist religion , surely you could come up with a simple definition of Hinduism which led you to this conclusion.

What is Hinduism is a pretty open ended question to be fair. How was I supposed to know which element of Hinduism you wanted an answer about? My perception of Hinduism being tied to the Indian race might well be wrong, if it is you can correct me, I am here to learn.

 

[TM Riddle]

What is Hinduism is a pretty open ended question to be fair. How was I supposed to know which element of Hinduism you wanted an answer about? My perception of Hinduism being tied to the Indian race might well be wrong, if it is you can correct me, I am here to learn.

Hinduism is basically an amalgamation of hundreds of indic beliefs and practices that originated over a period of time.
It's just impossible to define it properly as there are no common set of rules or regulations . It initially began as the religion of Vedic Aryans but later on acquired and subsumed various other philosophies and practices .
If we get down to the basics , there are 6 prime philosophies in Hinduism.
1. Samkhya - According to it the presence of divine agency is not essential to the creation of world. The world owes it's creation and existence more to the nature or Prakriti than God. This was a rational and scientific view.

2. Yoga - According to this , a person can attain salvation through meditation and physical application. Practice of control over pleasure and senses is central to this system.

3. Nyaya - According to it , salvation could be attained through acquisition of knowledge.

4. Vaisheshika - This one gave importance to discussion of material elements. BTW this school propounded the atom theory believing that all material objects are made up of atoms.

5. Mimansa - As per this , the Vedas contain the eternal truth and the principal objective of this philosophy was to acquire heaven and Salvation. A person will enjoy the bliss of heaven so long as his accumulated acts of virtues last. When they are exhausted , he will return to earth , but if he attains salvation he will be completely free from the cycle of death and birth. MOST HINDUS BELIEVE IN THIS SCHOOL although they don't know it.

6. Vedanta - This one is my favorite. It literally means the end of the Veda. As per this , The Brahma or God is Nirakar (that is Without any form) and Nirguna( Without any attributes) . It lays stress on attaining knowledge to fulfill the objective of salvation. This philosophy could be traced to earlier Upanishads.
Basically , Brahma is the reality and everything else is Maya (unreal) . The self (soul) coincides with Brahma. Therefore if a person acquires the knowledge of self, he acquires the knowledge or Brahma and thus attains salvation.Both Brahma and Soul are eternal and indestructible.
The theory of karma came to be linked to this Philosophy.

 

[Madplayer]

Buddhism just like jainism is another idealistic religion which is impractical to follow completely in this world given our needs and emotions. But obviously you dont have to follow it completely , the good portions/ values could be followed but then again, it can be said for all religions.

The people in the west have become spritually ignorant and any kind of "under the tree deep breathing meditation" and "we are part of cosmos and have inner energies which we can channelise" kinda stuff attracts them now. People in the east should use this opportunity to exploit this business opportunity and fill their pockets. Spritual tourism is already huge and going to be even bigger in future. Lets do it. Lo haremos juntos.

 

[TM Riddle]

Buddhism just like jainism is another idealistic religion which is impractical to follow completely in this world given our needs and emotions. But obviously you dont have to follow it completely , the good portions/ values could be followed but then again, it can be said for all religions.

The people in the west have become spritually ignorant and any kind of "under the tree deep breathing meditation" and "we are part of cosmos and have inner energies which we can channelise" kinda stuff attracts them now. People in the east should use this opportunity to exploit this business opportunity and fill their pockets. Spritual tourism is already huge and going to be even bigger in future. Lets do it. Lo haremos juntos.

Do you think Buddhism is limited to wearing yoga pants , smoking weed and spouting crap about metaphysical reality?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Hinduism is basically an amalgamation of hundreds of indic beliefs and practices that originated over a period of time.
It's just impossible to define it properly as there are no common set of rules or regulations . It initially began as the religion of Vedic Aryans but later on acquired and subsumed various other philosophies and practices .
If we get down to the basics , there are 6 prime philosophies in Hinduism.
1. Samkhya - According to it the presence of divine agency is not essential to the creation of world. The world owes it's creation and existence more to the nature or Prakriti than God. This was a rational and scientific view.

2. Yoga - According to this , a person can attain salvation through meditation and physical application. Practice of control over pleasure and senses is central to this system.

3. Nyaya - According to it , salvation could be attained through acquisition of knowledge.

4. Vaisheshika - This one gave importance to discussion of material elements. BTW this school propounded the atom theory believing that all material objects are made up of atoms.

5. Mimansa - As per this , the Vedas contain the eternal truth and the principal objective of this philosophy was to acquire heaven and Salvation. A person will enjoy the bliss of heaven so long as his accumulated acts of virtues last. When they are exhausted , he will return to earth , but if he attains salvation he will be completely free from the cycle of death and birth. MOST HINDUS BELIEVE IN THIS SCHOOL although they don't know it.

6. Vedanta - This one is my favorite. It literally means the end of the Veda. As per this , The Brahma or God is Nirakar (that is Without any form) and Nirguna( Without any attributes) . It lays stress on attaining knowledge to fulfill the objective of salvation. This philosophy could be traced to earlier Upanishads.
Basically , Brahma is the reality and everything else is Maya (unreal) . The self (soul) coincides with Brahma. Therefore if a person acquires the knowledge of self, he acquires the knowledge or Brahma and thus attains salvation.Both Brahma and Soul are eternal and indestructible.
The theory of karma came to be linked to this Philosophy.

Thanks. It does confirm that it is a collection of Indic beliefs and probably why it is tied to that region, and maybe that is why it doesn't translate abroad as easily as Buddhism. Also I don't think Buddhism has the concept of caste or reincarnation if what I have been told in the conversion to Islam thread is true. I asked how I could convert to become a high caste Brahmin, and was told I would have to die first, and could be reborn as a Brahmin or a cow if fortune was pre-ordained, or perhaps something lesser if not karma was not so good.

 

[Madplayer]

Do you think Buddhism is limited to wearing yoga pants , smoking weed and spouting crap about metaphysical reality?

Obviously not. Its much much deeper than that and i mentioned its an idealistic religion.

I was referring to how most westerners see it and other such religions. Most, not all. Some well learned people understand its essence. But most are simply frustrated from their fast paced mechanical lives and want something like meditation and some belief which they consider a higher truth without understanding it completely, to vent out their frustration. Being realistic, its a massive opportunity for us eastern people to make some money. I suggest you to invest in some Ashram on a hill top somewhere.

 

[Madplayer]

Thanks. It does confirm that it is a collection of Indic beliefs and probably why it is tied to that region, and maybe that is why it doesn't translate abroad as easily as Buddhism. Also I don't think Buddhism has the concept of caste or reincarnation if what I have been told in the conversion to Islam thread is true. I asked how I could convert to become a high caste Brahmin, and was told I would have to die first, and could be reborn as a Brahmin or a cow if fortune was pre-ordained, or perhaps something lesser if not karma was not so good.

Buddhism has concepts of reincarnation and Moksha(freedom from the cycle of rebirth) from what i know.

And you could even be reborn as an insect if your deeds arent good.

 

[TM Riddle]

Thanks. It does confirm that it is a collection of Indic beliefs and probably why it is tied to that region, and maybe that is why it doesn't translate abroad as easily as Buddhism. Also I don't think Buddhism has the concept of caste or reincarnation if what I have been told in the conversion to Islam thread is true. I asked how I could convert to become a high caste Brahmin, and was told I would have to die first, and could be reborn as a Brahmin or a cow if fortune was pre-ordained, or perhaps something lesser if not karma was not so good.

That's just one opinion Captain. In fact I would say you don't even need to convert to it at all. Just study about it and remain what you are. I would highly recommend reading Swami Vivekananda's works on Advaita Vedanta.

 

[TM Riddle]

Buddhism has concepts of reincarnation and Moksha(freedom from the cycle of rebirth) from what i know.

And you could even be reborn as an insect if your deeds arent good.

Yes these two concepts among others are common to both Hinduism and Buddhism.

 

[TM Riddle]

Obviously not. Its much much deeper than that and i mentioned its an idealistic religion.

I was referring to how most westerners see it and other such religions. Most, not all. Some well learned people understand its essence. But most are simply frustrated from their fast paced mechanical lives and want something like meditation and some belief which they consider a higher truth without understanding it completely, to vent out their frustration. Being realistic, its a massive opportunity for us eastern people to make some money. I suggest you to invest in some Ashram on a hill top somewhere.

Oh I get you now. Yes there are many such souls who after getting frustrated with the materialistic life of West adopt these neo indic practices.

 

[Madplayer]

Oh I get you now. Yes there are many such souls who after getting frustrated with the materialistic life of West adopt these neo indic practices.

Yes. You mention Karma, Dharma, Chakras or Ninja to them and they lose their mind.

 

[shortbread]

Buddhism has had a meteoric rise in the world over the last century, certainly here in the west it is one of the most popular religions/ways of life to the majority religion. Why did Hinduism never catch the imagination in the same way? I don't know that much about either, but would be interested to hear views from our many members here who are fans of the Hindutva revival led by the BJP govt of India.

Thoughts?

I don't know what part of the West your in but I see next to no significance of Buddhism, Hinduism etc...Islam is followed in a more visible manner by it's believers.

The fastest growing section in the West is non-believers and atheists in my opinion. This will only grow with education and scientific thinking all over the world. I hope religion takes a backseat in the world in the coming future. For all its original intent and purpose, majority of the world's problems stem from religious beliefs.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I don't know what part of the West your in but I see next to no significance of Buddhism, Hinduism etc...Islam is followed in a more visible manner by it's believers.

The fastest growing section in the West is non-believers and atheists in my opinion. This will only grow with education and scientific thinking all over the world. I hope religion takes a backseat in the world in the coming future. For all its original intent and purpose, majority of the world's problems stem from religious beliefs.

Lots of westerners follow Buddhism, it's not visible because it's an internal philosophy, at least as it's followed over here. You can often read interviews with celebrities who reveal their adoption of Buddhist thoughts, but you aren't going to see them dressed like Shaolin monks so that might be why they are less apparent.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

That's just one opinion Captain. In fact I would say you don't even need to convert to it at all. Just study about it and remain what you are. I would highly recommend reading Swami Vivekananda's works on Advaita Vedanta.

But what if a person is much enamoured by Hinduism and wants to go beyond study? Let's say Johnny Smith from Dudley is studying it and likes what he sees. How could he go about becoming a high caste Hindu?

 

[TM Riddle]

But what if a person is much enamoured by Hinduism and wants to go beyond study? Let's say Johnny Smith from Dudley is studying it and likes what he sees. How could he go about becoming a high caste Hindu?

Casteism is just one aspect of Hinduism. It's not necessary to follow it since it has lost it's utility in the modern times. Infact many Westerners who get converted to become Hindu do not believe in it at all.
Neo Hindu movements such as ISCKON allow conversion without getting into mess of casteism and secterianism.
Visit the Sanatana temple in Wembley (The ones whose pictures are probably saved in your computer) and immerse yourself in the bhakti of Lord Krishna and Radha

Hare Krishna Captain. May Ishwar grant you a peaceful life!

 

[BreadPakoda]

Lots of westerners follow Buddhism, it's not visible because it's an internal philosophy, at least as it's followed over here. You can often read interviews with celebrities who reveal their adoption of Buddhist thoughts, but you aren't going to see them dressed like Shaolin monks so that might be why they are less apparent.

Any data to back up your claim that Buddhism is growing in the west/ growing worldwide?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Casteism is just one aspect of Hinduism. It's not necessary to follow it since it has lost it's utility in the modern times. Infact many Westerners who get converted to become Hindu do not believe in it at all.
Neo Hindu movements such as ISCKON allow conversion without getting into mess of casteism and secterianism.
Visit the Sanatana temple in Wembley (The ones whose pictures are probably saved in your computer) and immerse yourself in the bhakti of Lord Krishna and Radha

Hare Krishna Captain. May Ishwar grant you a peaceful life!

But caste hasn't lost utility in modern India, and that is the birthplace of Hinduism, and Hindutva which is the modern movement to revive the way of the Hindu, puts the emphasis on Indian culture not western culture. So why would I follow something which is a shadow of the real thing?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Any data to back up your claim that Buddhism is growing in the west/ growing worldwide?

No, it was a casual observance and just my view, but if you have data to back up your claim that it isn't, then feel free to post it.

 

[BreadPakoda]

No, it was a casual observance and just my view, but if you have data to back up your claim that it isn't, then feel free to post it.

Sure. Pew Research Center projects a decline/no growth in the Buddhist population in the coming decades.

Page 5
Overview (Projections for 2050)
The global Buddhist population will be about the same size it was in 2010, while the Hindu and Jewish populations will be larger than they are today.

Page 6
Projected Change in Global Population
With the exception of Buddhists, all of the major religious groups are expected to increase in number by 2050 (There are graphs showing projected growth rates of various religions).

Source: http://www.pewforum.org/files/2015/03/PF_15.04.02_ProjectionsFullReport.pdf

 

[TM Riddle]

But caste hasn't lost utility in modern India, and that is the birthplace of Hinduism, and Hindutva which is the modern movement to revive the way of the Hindu, puts the emphasis on Indian culture not western culture. So why would I follow something which is a shadow of the real thing?

Haha and the real motive behind the thread comes out at last
Caste has definitely lost it's utility in the modern times and many educated Hindus do not care about it much (Barring a few exceptions such as me).
The thing is Captain 70 percent of India's population is rural and for a lot of them these social classifications matter and therefore you see rise of Hindutva movement to pander to this base.
But trust me , one do not get into the caste system if one wants to convert to Hinduism , anymore. I have given you examples of many Westerners as well organizations such as ISKCON who do not believe in it.
Baki aap samajhdar hain and if your real objective here is to only deride and put down Hinduism by repeatedly bringing up caste equation then I'm afraid I can't be of much help to you. I have given you my views on this topic and hope that you will feel satisfied by that .

 

[JaDed]

Buddhism just like jainism is another idealistic religion which is impractical to follow completely in this world given our needs and emotions. But obviously you dont have to follow it completely , the good portions/ values could be followed but then again, it can be said for all religions.

The people in the west have become spritually ignorant and any kind of "under the tree deep breathing meditation" and "we are part of cosmos and have inner energies which we can channelise" kinda stuff attracts them now. People in the east should use this opportunity to exploit this business opportunity and fill their pockets. Spritual tourism is already huge and going to be even bigger in future. Lets do it. Lo haremos juntos.

Are you saying we can follow every other religion,to the core of the book?Every religion has some idealistic scenarios.

Jainism might be hard to follow but it's followers have proved that they can go without violence,and them following it for so many years is enough to say the teachings are grasped well by their followers.

 

[JaDed]

I think we all know the purpose of this thread, and it shouldn't matter anymore,that's how it is, the truth is outside India no one even knows what Hindutva is, it's a political movement that has been rejected in major parts of INDIA,. the party is not but the terms is.

Caste is wrong in this day and age ,like.marrying a girl below 15 is now,why it was present ,there can be various reasons, one of them given By Tagore on his essay about nationalism, one should read that.

On a personal note I will always be attracted to religions like Buddhism, Sikhism, Jainism but irrespective of all that have never given up praying to Hindu Gods, I do wish I could be atheists but it's hard to give up faith,but hopefully thing superstition and castes won't matter in 100 years.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Sure. Pew Research Center projects a decline/no growth in the Buddhist population in the coming decades.

Page 5
Overview (Projections for 2050)
The global Buddhist population will be about the same size it was in 2010, while the Hindu and Jewish populations will be larger than they are today.

Page 6
Projected Change in Global Population
With the exception of Buddhists, all of the major religious groups are expected to increase in number by 2050 (There are graphs showing projected growth rates of various religions).

Source: http://www.pewforum.org/files/2015/03/PF_15.04.02_ProjectionsFullReport.pdf

Fair enough, maybe reading western celebrity interviews in the Sunday papers gives a skewed picture. The majority evidently prefer less esoteric beliefs.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Haha and the real motive behind the thread comes out at last
Caste has definitely lost it's utility in the modern times and many educated Hindus do not care about it much (Barring a few exceptions such as me).
The thing is Captain 70 percent of India's population is rural and for a lot of them these social classifications matter and therefore you see rise of Hindutva movement to pander to this base.
But trust me , one do not get into the caste system if one wants to convert to Hinduism , anymore. I have given you examples of many Westerners as well organizations such as ISKCON who do not believe in it.
Baki aap samajhdar hain and if your real objective here is to only deride and put down Hinduism by repeatedly bringing up caste equation then I'm afraid I can't be of much help to you. I have given you my views on this topic and hope that you will feel satisfied by that .

I'm not sure what you mean by 'the real motive' of this thread, it's not like I had any hidden agenda. Go back and check the OP, I did reference the Hindutva revival and popularity of the BJP govt right up front. The idea was to get an understanding of why Buddhism is taken up more abroad from India than Hinduism, and whether India itself was considered integral to Hinduism.

 

[CricketCartoons]

On a personal note I will always be attracted to religions like Buddhism, Sikhism, Jainism but irrespective of all that have never given up praying to Hindu Gods, I do wish I could be atheists but it's hard to give up faith,but hopefully thing superstition and castes won't matter in 100 years.

Do you see a christian say that he prays to christian God? or a muslim that he prays to muslim God. I see the wonders convent education has done to your attitude towards your own faith.

 

[Madplayer]

Are you saying we can follow every other religion,to the core of the book?Every religion has some idealistic scenarios.

Jainism might be hard to follow but it's followers have proved that they can go without violence,and them following it for so many years is enough to say the teachings are grasped well by their followers.

Not completely but they are comparatively a lot more practical compared to Buddhism and Jainism. I am saying there are a lot of religions which are comparatively more practical and in line with how the real world works rather than being idealistic and impractical. Islam for example says that you have to balance out deen (religion/sprituality) and duniya (worldly affairs), calvinists believe you have to work for Glory of God on earth even though your entry in heaven depends on His acceptance etc. While Buddhism is more inclined towards leaving all worldly affairs and desires, major sects of Jainism and their central doctrines of non-violence (not harming insects even by accident) are way too impractical to follow in real world. Even Sikhism started like this if you remember but after their Gurus were killed by Muslims, they dropped such idealistic and impractical rules and started defending themselves.

Nevertheless,these religions like Buddhism and Jainism are appealing as overall packages and a lot of westerners, being the spritual illiterates which they are, are attracted to such religions which promise eternal peace through these methods without even completely understanding them. We should look to use it to our advantage as it can be a lucrative business. They would get what they want and we would get what we want.

 

[TM Riddle]

Do you see a christian say that he prays to christian God? or a muslim that he prays to muslim God. I see the wonders convent education has done to your attitude towards your own faith.

Hindus consider all Gods to be a larger part of Hindu pantheon. Whether it be Yahweh , Allah , Christian God , Goddess Tara from buddhism etc.
I know it's stupid.

 

[JaDed]

Do you see a christian say that he prays to christian God? or a muslim that he prays to muslim God. I see the wonders convent education has done to your attitude towards your own faith.

Studied in a Hindu school,where kurta in saffron color was the dress code.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Studied in a Hindu school,where kurta in saffron color was the dress code.

So what went wrong when you started referring to the Supreme as hindu god? And RIP instead of Raam naam satya hai/ bolo hari, hari bol.

 

[JaDed]

Not completely but they are comparatively a lot more practical compared to Buddhism and Jainism. I am saying there are a lot of religions which are comparatively more practical and in line with how the real world works rather than being idealistic and impractical. Islam for example says that you have to balance out deen (religion/sprituality) and duniya (worldly affairs), calvinists believe you have to work for Glory of God on earth even though your entry in heaven depends on His acceptance etc. While Buddhism is more inclined towards leaving all worldly affairs and desires, major sects of Jainism and their central doctrines of non-violence (not harming insects even by accident) are way too impractical to follow in real world. Even Sikhism started like this if you remember but after their Gurus were killed by Muslims, they dropped such idealistic and impractical rules and started defending themselves.

Nevertheless,these religions like Buddhism and Jainism are appealing as overall packages and a lot of westerners, being the spritual illiterates which they are, are attracted to such religions which promise eternal peace through these methods without even completely understanding them. We should look to use it to our advantage as it can be a lucrative business. They would get what they want and we would get what we want.

Making religion into a business is what throws it's followers off, against such a method.

 

[JaDed]

So what went wrong when you started referring to the Supreme as hindu god? And RIP instead of Raam naam satya hai/ bolo hari, hari bol.

I agree on RIP that's my bad, I'm not a monotheist ,if it suits you I can refer to them as Bhagwaan or Andavan

 

[OoparCut]

I am extremely confident in my ignorance, it is a state which allows me to learn much from those like yourself who are much more knowledgeable than I.

As always, welcome new poster.

Classy reply. Hat-tip to you sir.

On topic - if you educate yourself about the underlying philosophies of Hinduism and Buddhism, you will find vast common ground. In fact, Buddhism as a religious construct is built on the foundation and acceptance of basic Hindu beliefs as truth - Karma, re-incarnation, nirvana, Maya, and umpteen others are Hindu concepts that Buddhism accepts as Gospel, and builds its own explanation and path on top of that.

In fact, one can arguably claim that Buddhism is as much a part of Hinduism as followers of Protestant churches are Christians.

 

[BreadPakoda]

What is wrong in RIP? Is it related to any religion?

Also, since the premise of the thread (Buddhism’s meteoric rise) has been proved to be untrue, there isn’t a point discussing this topic.

 

[OoparCut]

Hindus consider all Gods to be a larger part of Hindu pantheon. Whether it be Yahweh , Allah , Christian God , Goddess Tara from buddhism etc.
I know it's stupid.

Its not "stupid". Its open minded thinking, and acknowledging the fact that there is more than one path to God or Ultimate Truth/reality.

One can have faith in a personal belief system (Hinduism) without disrespecting or dismissing another person's faith. Unlike the Abrahamic Faiths, Hinduism doesn't claim to restrict access to God for a select few. Buddhism also re-affirms this underlying mind-set by the way.

 

[TM Riddle]

What is wrong in RIP? Is it related to any religion?

Also, since the premise of the thread (Buddhism’s meteoric rise) has been proved to be untrue, there isn’t a point discussing this topic.

Hindus and Sikhs cremate their dead .

 

[BreadPakoda]

Hindus and Sikhs cremate their dead .

Oh yea. Ok.

 

[Madplayer]

Making religion into a business is what throws it's followers off, against such a method.

They are asking for it. If it gives them peace somehow, we should facilitate the process for them and in return reap the benefits which are its by products. Nothing wrong with it at all.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Classy reply. Hat-tip to you sir.

On topic - if you educate yourself about the underlying philosophies of Hinduism and Buddhism, you will find vast common ground. In fact, Buddhism as a religious construct is built on the foundation and acceptance of basic Hindu beliefs as truth - Karma, re-incarnation, nirvana, Maya, and umpteen others are Hindu concepts that Buddhism accepts as Gospel, and builds its own explanation and path on top of that.

In fact, one can arguably claim that Buddhism is as much a part of Hinduism as followers of Protestant churches are Christians.

Protestants are differing sects of Christianity, they have never claimed that their version is a new religion. I have heard many Hindus claim Buddhism ( and Sikhism for that matter) are in fact strains of Hinduism, but that is not usually confirmed by followers of those faiths. While there will be some overlap, there are clearly disagreements on some central tenants which has given rise to birth of those religions.

 

[OoparCut]

Protestants are differing sects of Christianity, they have never claimed that their version is a new religion. I have heard many Hindus claim Buddhism ( and Sikhism for that matter) are in fact strains of Hinduism, but that is not usually confirmed by followers of those faiths. While there will be some overlap, there are clearly disagreements on some central tenants which has given rise to birth of those religions.

Ok, so what central TENETS of Hinduism does Buddhism reject? Before you play the "caste card", I will remind you, that you can completely reject the "caste" system and still be a practicing Hindu.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Ok, so what central TENETS of Hinduism does Buddhism reject? Before you play the "caste card", I will remind you, that you can completely reject the "caste" system and still be a practicing Hindu.

Buddhism reformed the corruption in Hinduism at the times. Buddha was never against caste, he was against it being hereditary, so Buddha supported the original caste system of the Vedic age.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Do Buddhists and Sikhs believe in multiple Gods too like Hindus or are they monotheists?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Ok, so what central TENETS of Hinduism does Buddhism reject? Before you play the "caste card", I will remind you, that you can completely reject the "caste" system and still be a practicing Hindu.

I don't know what the central tenets of Hinduism are, but I can assume that the great Indian warrior prince Asoka story would answer that question as he became a Buddhist, presumably being a Hindu prior to that. The logic is quite obvious, if Hinduism was all encompassing, then there would be no need for Buddhism or Sikhism. But I would certainly be prepared to hear any Buddhist or Sikh arguments which support your view.