The Rishabh Pant thread

[sensible-indian-fan]

Where did you take this general opinion from? Why do you expect all of us to have the same opinion like yours? He was dropped twice in that inning. Still it was a very good inning in my opinion. I won't call it ATG knock.

Are you comparing this knock with Gilly's? Gilly scored 149* and Aus won that match. I have hardly seen Pant staying till the end and finishing the match for India in all formats.

No but you seem to hav an opinion about our opinion of Pant... And call it hyping

If winning the match or staying till the end matters... what about Tendulkars 98 in Wanderes 2003?

Not an ATg knock cos David and yuvi finished it for us.

I can give u a million examples... So let's start...

Let me Know lol

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

That cutoff is just an example. What I mean was that if he had survived 4-5 overs, he would have taken the target to 100 and then others would have won that game. It was a brave knock but when he got out, it's not like we were favourites, it was still even steven and then with Pujara's wicket, Australia again became favourites. But Vihari and Ash also performed.

There were four vital knocks to save this test match. Out of the four, Pant was the best but other three were very important as well.

As an example, think what Stokes did at Headingley or Faf at Adelaide, they took it till the end. But Pant's knock was exceptional too, just not at that level of those two or Laxman's level.

One doesn't need to be at Laxman's level to be ATG knock.

Laxman played a GOAT knock...

See my last post.....

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Why is 100 safe but not 130?

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

For Sachin.... 12 wasn't safe.

 

[Ab Fan]

One doesn't need to be at Laxman's level to be ATG knock.

Laxman played a GOAT knock...

See my last post.....

It was a special knock but I will rate Faf's knock at Adelaide more. He batted 4 sessions till the end and saved his team a test match.

 

[Ab Fan]

For Sachin.... 12 wasn't safe.

SRT in Chennai 1999 is greater IMO than Pant's current knock.

There is a difference between 100 left to win with six wickets and 150 left to win with six wickets left bro.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

No but you seem to hav an opinion about our opinion of Pant... And call it hyping

If winning the match or staying till the end matters... what about Tendulkars 98 in Wanderes 2003?

Not an ATg knock cos David and yuvi finished it for us.

I can give u a million examples... So let's start...

Let me Know lol

It seems you got hurt when I didn't agree with your Gilly 2.0 hype? Yes I don't agree with overhyping Pant but why are you bringing general opinion into this? From where did you get this? Talk about yourself only. And what's with bringing random innings into discussion to big up Pant here? It wasn't an ATG knock.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Definitely an AtG knock.
Actually, for me even Vihari's performance is ATG level.

 

[Ab Fan]

Anyways, I must mention it was obviously a lot more than just a good knock

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

It was a special knock but I will rate Faf's knock at Adelaide more. He batted 4 sessions till the end and saved his team a test match.

I don't remember this knock. I will watch it again but I would like to know the bowling attack of Aus and how many times Faf was dropped?

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

It seems you got hurt when I didn't agree with your Gilly 2.0 hype? Yes I don't agree with overhyping Pant but why are you bringing general opinion into this? From where did you get this? Talk about yourself only. And what's with bringing random innings into discussion to big up Pant here? It wasn't an ATG knock.

Nope I ain't hurt.

You said can't I have an opinion?

I pointed out that it's you who started it all by saying we are hyping pant for teh knock... Thereby having a problem with our opinion.

Next I asked you about your opinion on Faf knock?

You said no.

I said ok so what about Tendulkar? Cos he too didn't stay till the end and it was David and Yuvi who finished it for us a criteria you yourself had set in your post)..

So one of theost celebrated Tendulkar knocks against Pakistan ain't an ATG?

I await your response mate.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Definitely an AtG knock.
Actually, for me even Vihari's performance is ATG level.

Lol I understand tomorrow is Lohri but do not distribute the word 'ATG' like Rewari and Gajjak.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

SRT in Chennai 1999 is greater IMO than Pant's current knock.

There is a difference between 100 left to win with six wickets and 150 left to win with six wickets left bro.

One ATG knock can be greater than other ATG knock

Just like one ATG can be greater Than Other.

There is no difference really... Cos it's dependent on others.

India couldn't get 12 runs when saqlain hot tendulkar

Here's another example for you..

Tendulkar played 2 identical knocks..

1996 against Aus wc
2003 against pak wc

100 runs to go.

We lost one.
We won against other.

All dependent on other player.

An ATG knock is one that flips the game and makes people talk about it for a long time regardless of the result.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

It was a special knock but I will rate Faf's knock at Adelaide more. He batted 4 sessions till the end and saved his team a test match.

Nothing wrong with that.

Of curse Fafs knock is greater.

 

[Ab Fan]

I don't remember this knock. I will watch it again but I would like to know the bowling attack of Aus and how many times Faf was dropped?

He batted 400+ balls in order to save a test match. Imagine Pujara who batted for 205 balls and got out, if he hadn't gotten out and lasted throughout not getting out. That's how great Faf's inning was. And Lyon was there on a Day 5 wicket.

Cricket Australia rates it as the greatest knock played in last 20 years in Australia

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Nope I ain't hurt.

You said can't I have an opinion?

I pointed out that it's you who started it all by saying we are hyping pant for teh knock... Thereby having a problem with our opinion.

Next I asked you about your opinion on Faf knock?

You said no.

I said ok so what about Tendulkar? Cos he too didn't stay till the end and it was David and Yuvi who finished it for us a criteria you yourself had set in your post)..

So one of theost celebrated Tendulkar knocks against Pakistan ain't an ATG?

I await your response mate.

In my opinion even Sachin's chennai knock wasn't ATG because we lost that match in the end. What's next in your list?

 

[Hitman]

Come on, I've always admired Pant's raw talent with the bat. And I enjoyed every run he scored during his last innings. But how on earth can anyone call that an ATG knock?

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Sorry for the typo guys.

I am typing from my mobile.

Last game we had 4 mind blowing knocks...

Pujara and Pant had ATG knocks..

Ash and Vihari had insane knocks... U can call it ATG or not.. Thats upto you but I would call all 4 as ATG with varying degrees.

Its the context that matters.

Ashwin and vihari can score a triple hundred against eng at home and it won't be as good a knock.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

In my opinion even Sachin's chennai knock wasn't ATG because we lost that match in the end. What's next in your list?

Ok great... So what about sachin's wanderer knock?

Razzak dropped him.

And laras 4th innings chase knock?

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

He batted 400+ balls in order to save a test match. Imagine Pujara who batted for 205 balls and got out, if he hadn't gotten out and lasted throughout not getting out. That's how great Faf's inning was. And Lyon was there on a Day 5 wicket.

Cricket Australia rates it as the greatest knock played in last 20 years in Australia

Where should they rank Pant's knock then? Above Faf's?

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Come on, I've always admired Pant's raw talent with the bat. And I enjoyed every run he scored during his last innings. But how on earth can anyone call that an ATG knock?

Ok so give me a list of SENA batsman playing such a knock in Asia against an ATG attack on 5th day...

And an Asian batsman playing in SENA against an ATG attack on 5th day.

Would love to see how many knocks come up....

 

[RajBan]

So Gibbs 190 in Joberg not ATG?

Who sets the cut off as 4 or 5 overs?

Same way Tendus 175 against Aus not ATG?

Think buddy...

By that order, you will have too many ATH knocks. I will assume ATG knocks are typically handful and stands out among great innings. Pant's innings do not fall in that category, if it qualifies then Kohli's chase in 2014-15 is also ATG knock as we were close to a win. If that is the case Tandulkar's 136 against Pakistan was an ATG knock. But its not, its a great innings but not an ATG knock.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

By that order, you will have too many ATH knocks. I will assume ATG knocks are typically handful and stands out among great innings. Pant's innings do not fall in that category, if it qualifies then Kohli's chase in 2014-15 is also ATG knock as we were close to a win. If that is the case Tandulkar's 136 against Pakistan was an ATG knock. But its not, its a great innings but not an ATG knock.

All 3 knocks are ATG.

ATG knocks are remembered for decades.

Theres no hard and fast rule that ATG knocks have to be only 20 or 25 or 30.

With time, ATG knocks rise.

If Pant was not an ATG knock, we can discuss how many players in the history of the game has gone to SENA/Asia and played against an ATG attack and did what he did on 5th day?

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

What Kohli did in Adelaide was mind blowing stuff.

Its stuff like that why Kohli is rated where he is.

Same goes for his Hobart knock.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Ok great... So what about sachin's wanderer knock?

Razzak dropped him.

And laras 4th innings chase knock

Sachin's wanderer's knock of 111? In 1992? Who called it an ATG knock? If I remember correctly it was in the first inning.

Lara's 4th innings knock? Seriously? Has Lara only played one knock while chasing? How do you expect me to know which inning you are talking about without you even giving a link of that match's scorecard?

What's next in your list? Innings of Marvan Attapattu and Roshan Mahanama?

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Sachin's wanderer's knock of 111? In 1992? Who called it an ATG knock? If I remember correctly it was in the first inning.

Lara's 4th innings knock? Seriously? Has Lara only played one knock while chasing? How do you expect me to know which inning you are talking about without you even giving a link of that match's scorecard?

What's next in your list? Innings of Marvan Attapattu and Roshan Mahanama?

Against Pakistan wc 2003.

And Lara that 151* chasing 300 odd against Aus in 1998/99 odd.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

All 3 knocks are ATG.

ATG knocks are remembered for decades.

Theres no hard and fast rule that ATG knocks have to be only 20 or 25 or 30.

With time, ATG knocks rise.

If Pant was not an ATG knock, we can discuss how many players in the history of the game has gone to SENA/Asia and played against an ATG attack and did what he did on 5th day?

You were talking about general opinion yet at least 4-5 people here have already said that this knock of Pant is not an ATG knock. Once again where did this general opinion came from? Think bro.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

You were talking about general opinion yet at least 4-5 people here have already said that this knock of Pant is not an ATG knock. Once again where did this general opinion came from? Think bro.

No prob. We will get to it later.

Let's finish up our chat shall we..

By now you have said Sachin's Chennai knock is not ATG... Wonder how many of the same posters are gonna agree with you?

Anyways back to our topic...

 

[Local.Dada]

Pant has a 100 in Aus and Eng and almost got another one and will have future chances to get more but we still see weird argument that who is going to replace Dhoni.

Pant is in Dekock category. An X factor player who can win the game on his own and while his keeping is average it is not exactly atrocious or poor like some names I don’t want to bring up. It is adequate.

 

[RajBan]

All 3 knocks are ATG.

ATG knocks are remembered for decades.

Theres no hard and fast rule that ATG knocks have to be only 20 or 25 or 30.

With time, ATG knocks rise.

If Pant was not an ATG knock, we can discuss how many players in the history of the game has gone to SENA/Asia and played against an ATG attack and did what he did on 5th day?

What you are saying is that there is no clear benchmark for ATG knocks. That's not appropriate. That's not how ATG gets defined.

The benchmark can get recalibrated and it can be set with more stringent clauses over time based on context, circumstances etc but that does not mean the list expands. The list can change as per the new benchmark but remains finite.

If there are too many ATG innings, that means that general standard have gone up and that has become the norm as opposed to be an exception. For example scoring 100 in 80 balls in an ODI was a feat 25 years back given the rules, standards etc. It's not anymore unless there are special conditions in play.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

What you are saying is that there is no clear benchmark for ATG knocks. That's not appropriate. That's not how ATG gets defined.

The benchmark can get recalibrated and it can be set with more stringent clauses over time based on context, circumstances etc but that does not mean the list expands. The list can change as per the new benchmark but remains finite.

If there are too many ATG innings, that means that general standard have gone up and that has become the norm as opposed to be an exception. For example scoring 100 in 80 balls in an ODI was a feat 25 years back given the rules, standards etc. It's not anymore unless there are special conditions in play.

My definition is simple.

If a knock is soooo good considering tee context that it will be talked about for a long time due to its impact... It's ATG.

What Pant did in SCG 2020 is no mean feat.

We can barely even find 2-3 knocks by any player in the history of the game doing this in alien conditions against a top class attack.

One example that comes to mind is Vivs dominance against Indian spinners in 80s in one fo the test.

Its that rare.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

^Yes there are no clear benchmarks for ATG knocks precisely for the reason you mentioned.

Its a little subjective.

But when we compare it with other knocks, we can have some objective comparison and discussions.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Pant has a 100 in Aus and Eng and almost got another one and will have future chances to get more but we still see weird argument that who is going to replace Dhoni.

Pant is in Dekock category. An X factor player who can win the game on his own and while his keeping is average it is not exactly atrocious or poor like some names I don’t want to bring up. It is adequate.

There was a time when I was considered to be crazy in PP for questioning Dhoni the test captain.

Everyone was saying who else if not for Dhoni...

How times change.

 

[RajBan]

My definition is simple.

If a knock is soooo good considering tee context that it will be talked about for a long time due to its impact... It's ATG.

What Pant did in SCG 2020 is no mean feat.

We can barely even find 2-3 knocks by any player in the history of the game doing this in alien conditions against a top class attack.

One example that comes to mind is Vivs dominance against Indian spinners in 80s in one fo the test.

Its that rare.

Thats not true. We had one by Karunaratne against SA in SA batting with tailenders and chasing down the impossible. I know that is an exception as it is no 1 in the ATG list but Pant's innings is not ATG. If you want to consider it , you are welcome but the larger cricket fraternity and renowned analysts won't put it in that category

 

[dildilpak]

In my opinion even Sachin's chennai knock wasn't ATG because we lost that match in the end. What's next in your list?

That Chennai knock was one of the best innings I have seen played against us! We had one of our best bowling attacks bowling to 10 fairly average batsmen and we still almost lost that game thanks to Sachin. It was some next level batting.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Thats not true. We had one by Karunaratne against SA in SA batting with tailenders and chasing down the impossible. I know that is an exception as it is no 1 in the ATG list but Pant's innings is not ATG. If you want to consider it , you are welcome but the larger cricket fraternity and renowned analysts won't put it in that category

Karunaratne is quality.

But was the bowling as well rounded as Aus?

Was it an attacking knock like what Pant played?

There are many such careful knocks in history but very very rare attacking knocks like Pant in alien conditions against great bowling.

Kusal Perera's was incredible and being talked about being one of the best ever. Deservedly so.

And that attack was not as good as what Pant had faced in SCG.

What Pant did might look blind slogging but it doesn't usually come off against quality bowlers in alien conditions. And for sure not in 4th innings.

Or else we could have named 5 to 10 innings by now. But we can't.

It is truly one of its kind.

 

[RajBan]

That Chennai knock was one of the best innings I have seen played against us! We had one of our best bowling attacks bowling to 10 fairly average batsmen and we still almost lost that game thanks to Sachin. It was some next level batting.

Fairly average batsmen? That line up had Sourav, Dravid, Lakshman, Azhar other than Sachin. By no means they are considered average regardless of their achievements in Test cricket.

As its said that was a tremendous bowling lineup from Pakistan and Indian batsmen simply were not upto the task other than Sachin. The last 4 wkts fell for just 4 runs with only 11 more to score. Joshi who was batting pretty steadily just lost his mind once Sachin got out. Kumble and Srinath who were no mugs with bat in India just was not able to stand either.

 

[Hyperion66]

Something about him that I'm also starting to notice.

He is a different player when he goes out there with an intent to prove a point. Needs to keep that fire alive in him always.

This.

When he gets going he can change the complexion of the game in a single session.

 

[dildilpak]

Didn't mean to disrespect those players. But a lot of them weren't really big names at that time. I remember thinking at that time, they were very mediocre bunch of players. By the time we played India again, Laxman and Dravid, in particular, had become great batsmen.

Anyways, don't want to derail this discussion. I think Pant's knock being an ATG is up for debate and I can see both sides. I personally don't think it is ATG. But if Sachin's Chennai knock is not ATG then I don't know what is.

I do believe in a team game you can't have the result of the match determine the quality of an innings or spell. To give a few examples -- I think Sangakarra's Hobart knock is ATG despite the loss. Similarly if Australia had used their review wisely and won the game, would Stokes' innings not be an ATG game? I don't think so. Having victory as a criteria, puts a very heavy burden on players in weak teams.

 

[Saurav]

It was a special knock but I will rate Faf's knock at Adelaide more. He batted 4 sessions till the end and saved his team a test match.

110 vs an attack of Hilfenhaus,Siddle,Lyon on a patta(Aus scored 550 first innings)

vs

97 vs Cummins,Starc,Hazelwood,Lyon

You gotta be kidding

 

[Ab Fan]

110 vs an attack of Hilfenhaus,Siddle,Lyon on a patta(Aus scored 550 first innings)

vs

97 vs Cummins,Starc,Hazelwood,Lyon

You gotta be kidding

Bhai, it was fifth day and fourth inning. Faf faced 376 balls to save the test. That's combined the total balls faced by Pujara and Vihari and both played great knocks themselves.

Faf's knock = Pujara's + Vihari

This is how good it was. He batted whole day,two sessions like Pujara did and final session like Vihari did, they were 8 down by end of the day and he saved the test staying not out. It was not just an ATG knock but one of the greatest knocks played ever in Australia. I can't recall a South African playing as great a test knock as this, maybe Smith's 159 at Edgbaston but that's about it.

 

[Ab Fan]

That Chennai knock was one of the best innings I have seen played against us! We had one of our best bowling attacks bowling to 10 fairly average batsmen and we still almost lost that game thanks to Sachin. It was some next level batting.

Agreed. That Chennai 1999 is an ATG knock IMO.

 

[Saurav]

Bhai, it was fifth day and fourth inning. Faf faced 376 balls to save the test. That's combined the total balls faced by Pujara and Vihari and both played great knocks themselves.

Faf's knock = Pujara's + Vihari

This is how good it was. He batted whole day,two sessions like Pujara did and final session like Vihari did, they were 8 down by end of the day and he saved the test staying not out. It was not just an ATG knock but one of the greatest knocks played ever in Australia. I can't recall a South African playing as great a test knock as this, maybe Smith's 159 at Edgbaston but that's about it.

I'm not demeaning the knock.It was a great knock.Perhaps more comparable with Gambhir's effort at Napier.However even for a 5th day,the track was not nearly as tough as this.And bowling attack was so poor that Clarke,Warner,Quiney and even Ponting bowled.Dead batting such attack is far easier than today's attack so point of Pujara+Vihari is invalid.Faf too had AB for company

Pant's approach.Clearly he went for the score against all odds and by the time he was done a victory looked realistic.Only if Jadeja could bat,we might have even won

 

[Saurav]

That Chennai knock was one of the best innings I have seen played against us! We had one of our best bowling attacks bowling to 10 fairly average batsmen and we still almost lost that game thanks to Sachin. It was some next level batting.

Also he had bad back.Our tail was so poor

 

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

You are wrong. His overall average is 40 but his away average is 36 which is not bad. It seems he loves to bat in Australia only. Here are his away averages per country :

Aus - 56
Eng - 27
West Indies - 19
NZ - 15

Lots of improvements still to be made before he can be called Gilly 2.0.

He isn't there to be Gilly 2.0.

In terms of wicketkeeper bats in Tests, he's ahead of Saha, Bharat, Samson, Kishan etc. Saha may be a good keeper but he's a mediocre bat and isn't getting any younger.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

I'm not demeaning the knock.It was a great knock.Perhaps more comparable with Gambhir's effort at Napier.However even for a 5th day,the track was not nearly as tough as this.And bowling attack was so poor that Clarke,Warner,Quiney and even Ponting bowled.Dead batting such attack is far easier than today's attack so point of Pujara+Vihari is invalid.Faf too had AB for company

Pant's approach.Clearly he went for the score against all odds and by the time he was done a victory looked realistic.Only if Jadeja could bat,we might have even won

Faf's knock isn't celebrated for its technical brilliance.

Its celebrated for his ability to keep his mental demons at bay and block out everything that was thrown at him.

Its one of the greatest knocks played by a batsman in a high pressure situation.

He had to withstand pressure for a long time and so the quality of attack (which wasn't bad... Siddle was damn good then) doesn't matter.

That too with the series on line.

Its usually the context that determines a knock.

Pant did it in a different way.

But I guess people are not quite seeing the true magnitude of it.

Fair enough.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

I can see where [MENTION=139595]Ab Fan[/MENTION] is coming from.

But as Saurav mentioned, if Jaddu was fit, we might have won and the entire perception of his knock would have been a lot different in this thread.

 

[globalcitizen]

It would not call this knock a ATG one, it was a good knock that’s about it. I don’t think we would even be talking about this if Paine had held on to catch at 0 and 20 odd !!
So he rode his luck and played fearlessly.

 

[globalcitizen]

I can see where [MENTION=139595]Ab Fan[/MENTION] is coming from.

But as Saurav mentioned, if Jaddu was fit, we might have won and the entire perception of his knock would have been a lot different in this thread.

Win was only possible if vihari and jadeja had not been injured and Pant carried on for another 50 runs . Other possibility was them being fit and they might have lost if they knew a win was close. So many things could have happened . So draw was best result.

 

[hoshiarpurexpress]

Ladka lambi race da ghoda hai. Bhaag Rishabh Bhaag no one can stop you.

 

[Sir Alex]

Plus Gilly was a far more terrorising bat than Pant is. He didn't hit and miss as many deliveries as Pant does.

Also because Gilchrist was 28 at the time of his test debut and was at his peak. Pant is just 22 and has time to refine his keeping.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

It would not call this knock a ATG one, it was a good knock that’s about it. I don’t think we would even be talking about this if Paine had held on to catch at 0 and 20 odd !!
So he rode his luck and played fearlessly.

Some of the most magical knocks played by Atgs of the past had dropped catches in them.

Doesn't diminish the quality of those knocks.

Tendu 98 centurion
Lara 150 not out against aus
Smith pune 2017 masterclass
Stokes ashes masterclass
Stokes WC final masterclass

All had element of luck in them.

Win was only possible if vihari and jadeja had not been injured and Pant carried on for another 50 runs . Other possibility was them being fit and they might have lost if they knew a win was close. So many things could have happened . So draw was best result.

At one point we needed 130 runs off 42 odd overs.

Pujara started upping the rate once Pant left.

With jadeja in, it could have been a win.

Such was the impact of the knock.

Its just ill luck that we didn't have the personnel to continue.

Had we won it, people would have likely be singing a different tune here.

Not that there's anything wrong with calling this as Not an ATG knock....

Just my 2 cents.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Also because Gilchrist was 28 at the time of his test debut and was at his peak. Pant is just 22 and has time to refine his keeping.

Exactly.

Pant is ridonculous at his age.

The SCG knock barely has any parallels in the history of the game except Kusal pereras and Vivs knock.

And Pant is just 23.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

I think time will tell us where this knock stands.

If many start replicating this (attack against superb high quality bowling on day 5 in completely alien conditions) due to modern mindset... Then this knock won't be rated that high.

But if others can't replicate it, this will become a cult classic knock.

It already is due to the context but it can be even without it.

 

[Indiafan]

It would not call this knock a ATG one, it was a good knock that’s about it. I don’t think we would even be talking about this if Paine had held on to catch at 0 and 20 odd !!
So he rode his luck and played fearlessly.

So something Dravid, Laxman, Sachin, Sehwag couldnt do in Aus is not a ATG knock?

 

[globalcitizen]

So something Dravid, Laxman, Sachin, Sehwag couldnt do in Aus is not a ATG knock?

It does not matter what they did or not do in Aus. You cannot compare one decade to another. There are multiple factors at play. I don’t see this as ATG knock because I feel Pant has a higher ceiling and can play even a better knock in future

 

[MP2011]

Also because Gilchrist was 28 at the time of his test debut and was at his peak. Pant is just 22 and has time to refine his keeping.

I agree. That's why I said Gilly was better at least at Pant's current level.

 

[Saurav]

Faf's knock isn't celebrated for its technical brilliance.

Its celebrated for his ability to keep his mental demons at bay and block out everything that was thrown at him.

Its one of the greatest knocks played by a batsman in a high pressure situation.

He had to withstand pressure for a long time and so the quality of attack (which wasn't bad... Siddle was damn good then) doesn't matter.

That too with the series on line.

Its usually the context that determines a knock.

Pant did it in a different way.

But I guess people are not quite seeing the true magnitude of it.

Fair enough.

I'm not denying the mental fortitude he displayed that day.But the bowling attack matters a lot

Ashwin faced 128 deliveries but I'm sure even he got more bouncers/challenging deliveries than what Faf faced.Mental fortitude wavers when such things happen.Easier when they don't.

Siddle was just a serviceable support bowler even at his best,not a patch on the current lot.

Reg Pant's innings,its not a direct comparison because the approaches were different.But look at it this way,if Pant was there against that attack in Adelaide,while Faf was up against current lot on up and down track,who'd have come out better?Pant was also under personal pressure of losing spot

Faf's innings may still be greater,but to dismiss it as a comparison is not on either

 

[Saurav]

I agree. That's why I said Gilly was better at least at Pant's current level.

How good was Gilly at 23?

Ofcourse all careers don't follow the same trajectory so not comparing

 

[Abhilash93]

Pant has a 100 in Aus and Eng and almost got another one and will have future chances to get more but we still see weird argument that who is going to replace Dhoni.

Pant is in Dekock category. An X factor player who can win the game on his own and while his keeping is average it is not exactly atrocious or poor like some names I don’t want to bring up. It is adequate.

Pants keeping against fast bowlers is still OK but his catching efficiency against spinners is around 55% (drops almost half of the catches).

That is the reason why he doesn't play in India. The team management is not confident in his keeping against spin at the moment.

 

[Saurav]

Pants keeping against fast bowlers is still OK but his catching efficiency against spinners is around 55% (drops almost half of the catches).

That is the reason why he doesn't play in India. The team management is not confident in his keeping against spin at the moment.

It'll only improve by playing.We'll win at home regardless anyway most times

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

So something Dravid, Laxman, Sachin, Sehwag couldnt do in Aus is not a ATG knock?

So anything that Dravid, Laxman, Sachin and Sehwag couldn't do becomes an ATG knock? What a dumb logic lol.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

It'll only improve by playing.We'll win at home regardless anyway most time

So are you trying to suggest that since we are going to win at home anyway we shouldn't mind Pant dropping catches or giving extra runs in India and let him improve by playing more matches in India?

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

I'm not denying the mental fortitude he displayed that day.But the bowling attack matters a lot

Ashwin faced 128 deliveries but I'm sure even he got more bouncers/challenging deliveries than what Faf faced.Mental fortitude wavers when such things happen.Easier when they don't.

Siddle was just a serviceable support bowler even at his best,not a patch on the current lot.

Reg Pant's innings,its not a direct comparison because the approaches were different.But look at it this way,if Pant was there against that attack in Adelaide,while Faf was up against current lot on up and down track,who'd have come out better?Pant was also under personal pressure of losing spot

Faf's innings may still be greater,but to dismiss it as a comparison is not on either

AB fan said Faf's a greater knock. And this is not as good.

He didn't say it was not worthy of comparison.

Also my point was that everything ain't about bowling quality.

That 2012 series was brutally competitive and Faf's knock soaking immense pressure and batting for more than a day was incredible.

There's a reason ATGs don't have such knocks piled up cos they are sooo hard even against average bowlers.

And Siddle was really good in that test...He gave it his heart and soul in that game..

 

[Saurav]

So are you trying to suggest that since we are going to win at home anyway we shouldn't mind Pant dropping catches or giving extra runs in India and let him improve by playing more matches in India?

Yup exactly.We'll win mostly because batting will be strengthened and bowling is good enough to afford drops.Then if he improves ,drops will reduce too.That's how players develop

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Yup exactly.We'll win mostly because batting will be strengthened and bowling is good enough to afford drops.Then if he improves ,drops will reduce too.That's how players develop

Ok. First time I am hearing something like this.

 

[Saurav]

Ok. First time I am hearing something like this.

Then you haven't seen our bowling in India lately.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Then you haven't seen our bowling in India lately.

You got it wrong. I should have bolded "afford drops" only part from your post. I mean I haven't heard something like this from any fan that we can afford dropping catches. May be it is a common thing for those fans who worship certain players and don't see anything wrong in them.

 

[Saurav]

You got it wrong. I should have bolded "afford drops" only part from your post. I mean I haven't heard something like this from any fan that we can afford dropping catches. May be it is a common thing for those fans who worship certain players and don't see anything wrong in them.

You misinterpreted it or chose to.

It obviously means few drops won't alter the match result going by past record,and risk can be taken to develop a player.

BTW keeper is not the only one who dropped catches this series.Maybe we need specialist fielders too

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

There was a Bangladesh game where there were 5 times in a single innings for a single bowler.

It was comical.

Against Eng 2016, there were around 20-30 drops in the whole series. There was a chart too reg it online.

Every bowler was affected.

Yet we could pick 20 wickets.....cos in our home, we can pick 30 wickets if needed.

But overseas, that's not possible.

 

[Sir Alex]

Disagree Pant knock was an ATG one. It ultimately meant someone faced 118 deliveries in the 4th innings. Which is excellent but in the end Vihari and Ashwin outdid him and so did Pujara.

Had India gone on to win the match then its definitely a different matter, as Pant did open up a chance to chase down the target.

 

[Cryin Out Loud]

Had Pant won the game for us- and he could have had he been out there- it would have been an ATG innings.

Given what happened, it's a hugely memorable knock, the kind that many, if not the majority of international batsmen would consider to be close to their career best (and Pant is so young yet!).

But ATG knocks need higher standards.

I think Pant has it in him to play those as well, it just didn't happen with that 97.

But it was enough to change the momentum of the game totally.

 

[AMSS]

Disagree Pant knock was an ATG one. It ultimately meant someone faced 118 deliveries in the 4th innings. Which is excellent but in the end Vihari and Ashwin outdid him and so did Pujara.

Had India gone on to win the match then its definitely a different matter, as Pant did open up a chance to chase down the target.

That's an accountant's view of cricket. You need to grow as a viewer of this game.

 

[MP2011]

How good was Gilly at 23?

Ofcourse all careers don't follow the same trajectory so not comparing

Gilly scored an unbeaten ton in his first test series to win his team that test match against a great Pakistan attack, facing an onerous 4th innings target, albeit at home. But then he was playing international cricket for 3 years already and due to an ageing Healy, his test debut was delayed so much.

That's why we all should let Pant to play for a few seasons more before declaring him Gilly 2.0!

Gilly was once in a generation player, Pant would become our greatest ever WK if he comes anywhere near Gilly.

 

[MP2011]

Had Pant won the game for us- and he could have had he been out there- it would have been an ATG innings.

Given what happened, it's a hugely memorable knock, the kind that many, if not the majority of international batsmen would consider to be close to their career best (and Pant is so young yet!).

But ATG knocks need higher standards.

I think Pant has it in him to play those as well, it just didn't happen with that 97.

But it was enough to change the momentum of the game totally.

This!

It was a great knock but to call it an ATG knock would be a stretch. For it to be termed that, he should have got us really close to the target, ideally within 30-40 runs.

 

[Thunderbolt14]

Disagree Pant knock was an ATG one. It ultimately meant someone faced 118 deliveries in the 4th innings. Which is excellent but in the end Vihari and Ashwin outdid him and so did Pujara.

Had India gone on to win the match then its definitely a different matter, as Pant did open up a chance to chase down the target.

If this was an ATG knock then Kamran Akmal’s knock against India was GOAT...

 

[Sir Alex]

That's an accountant's view of cricket. You need to grow as a viewer of this game.

Teach me oh knowledgeable one.

 

[Sir Alex]

If this was an ATG knock then Kamran Akmal’s knock against India was GOAT...

It is an ATG knock.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

If this was an ATG knock then Kamran Akmal’s knock against India was GOAT...

What about his century in the same match where Pathan took a hattrick and Pak were struggling at 39/6? How do you Pak fans rate that inning which ultimately helped Pakistan win that match?

More than Gilly 2.0 Pant looks more like Kamran Akmal 2.0 currently because of his keeping and a good inning here and there.

 

[Sir Alex]

What about his century in the same match where Pathan took a hattrick and Pak were struggling at 39/6? How do you Pak fans rate that inning which ultimately helped Pakistan win that match?

More than Gilly 2.0 Pant looks more like Kamran Akmal 2.0 currently because of his keeping and a good inning here and there.

Except, Pant is doing this in Aus against worlds best pace bowling attack.