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The Rishabh Pant thread

RedwoodOriginal said:
Yeah that's because Rizwan's glovework is lightyears ahead of Pant's. Rizwan doesn't drop multiple sitters in a single match. Rizwan is not lazy and lethargic in the field either because he takes the game seriously which is evident by his level of fitness. Rizwan is also a far superior T20I batter than Rizwan right now.

Pant is one of the most exciting prospects in world cricket and I'm glad that he has set the world on fire with his test batting. But there is no need to overrate him. As of now, he is a mediocre keeper whose glovework leaves much to be desired and someone failed to establish himself as a reliable limited-overs batter thus far.

.
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The mediocre keeper bit is an uninformed opinion, pls watch how he has improved his wicketkeeping.

He keeps for India in Indian conditions with Ravi Ashwin and Jadeja as spinners and hardly drops a chance, especially since start of 2021.

In the England series too, you can check how the commentators at SKY applauded his keeping, even in the last odi he took two great airborne catches.

Rizwan is still a better keeper but then he is a 30 yeard old guy with a lot of experience in domestics, seeing how Pant has taken his keeping to new standards I am quite sure he is gonna be the best glove man in the coming years.
 
Technics 1210 said:
Rizwan has nothing to do with this thread, this is not a comparison thread, but the fact you can only counter with a pointless mention of Rizwan is by virtue an acceptance of mediocre hyped performance of Pant.

Your bakery plans of Pant humble pies was stretching from Tests, ODIs, and T20s - now reduced to just Tests.

Maybe try pasties next.
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Nothing has reduced, Rizwan's mention isn't pointless it shows that a 24 year old player has outperformed a 30 PAKISTANI year old guy (who is very good himself) and still the former gets criticised for some reason.

What more do you expect, yes he hasn't been at his best in t20s but then you persist with a talent like Pant, that's what BCCI is doing.

Both of us will be here, the doubts regarding test cricket have already been cleared, in ODIs he averages 32 at 109 which is respectable, he's gonna go places in t20s too, wait for it.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
The mediocre keeper bit is an uninformed opinion, pls watch how he has improved his wicketkeeping.

He keeps for India in Indian conditions with Ravi Ashwin and Jadeja as spinners and hardly drops a chance, especially since start of 2021.

In the England series too, you can check how the commentators at SKY applauded his keeping, even in the last odi he took two great airborne catches.

Rizwan is still a better keeper but then he is a 30 yeard old guy with a lot of experience in domestics, seeing how Pant has taken his keeping to new standards I am quite sure he is gonna be the best glove man in the coming years.
Click to expand...

No its not. I've watched him keep wickets and I've watched Saha keep wickets too. The difference is night and day just between those two, let alone Pant and Rizwan.

Being a good keeper is not about having one good series. It's about rarely ever making an error. And I've seen Pant drop too many catches to take him seriously for the time being. Until last year he had the worst drops-per-Test record in the world among keepers with 10 or more test caps.
 
Romali_rotti said:
Lol This guy, back it up, surely you can do a statsguru search on cricinfo before you make false statements..
Click to expand...

This is a stat from last year:

Since the start of 2018, Rishabh Pant averages 0.86 dropped catches per Test played.

Of all keepers to play 10 matches in that time, Pant's drops-per-Test record is the worst.

Source: CricViz


Maybe think carefully before accusing someone of making false statements next time.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
This is a stat from last year:

Since the start of 2018, Rishabh Pant averages 0.86 dropped catches per Test played.

Of all keepers to play 10 matches in that time, Pant's drops-per-Test record is the worst.

Source: CricViz


Maybe think carefully before accusing someone of making false statements next time.
Click to expand...

Err.. your stat's doesn't prove Rizwan is light years ahead, for both of their careers since debut till now..
 
Romali_rotti said:
Err.. your stat's doesn't prove Rizwan is light years ahead, for both of their careers since debut till now..
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Clearly you don't watch Pakistan play alot of cricket. That's on you not me. Luckily alot of people here do. So eat your slice of humble pie and be happy. And think twice before accusing someone of making false statements next time.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Clearly you don't watch Pakistan play alot of cricket. That's on you not me. Luckily alot of people here do. So eat your slice of humble pie and be happy. And think twice before accusing someone of making false statements next time.
Click to expand...

Stop yapping.

Again, You haven't proved Rizwan is night and day over Pant..
 
Romali_rotti said:
I never said Pant was better in keeping
Click to expand...

You asked for stats to prove that Rizwan > Pant, I am saying that it is not necessary as the eye test is the best way to judge keepers.

P. Jayawardene was a fantastic keeper and Buttler is average, and I am confident saying that Jayawardene performs better in similar takes. The fact that Buttler has a greater Dismissals/Innings for example is just obscuring the truth
 
Romali_rotti said:
Stop yapping.

Again, You haven't proved Rizwan is night and day over Pant..
Click to expand...

Stop deflecting like a coward. And provide a stat that goes against the commonly held view among posters here: that Rizwan is one of the best wicket-keepers in the world. Till then you don't have two legs to stand on.

I don't have to prove anything to you considering most of the posters here think so anyway.
 
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therealAB said:
You asked for stats to prove that Rizwan > Pant, I am saying that it is not necessary as the eye test is the best way to judge keepers.

P. Jayawardene was a fantastic keeper and Buttler is average, and I am confident saying that Jayawardene performs better in similar takes. The fact that Buttler has a greater Dismissals/Innings for example is just obscuring the truth
Click to expand...

Rizwan maybe a better keeper and I am not denying that, just cooling the Pakistani here who said he is apparently night and day over Pant.

Can only believe such a statement of stat's back it up. Surely if Rizwan is night and day over Pant, stats will back it.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
This is a stat from last year:

Since the start of 2018, Rishabh Pant averages 0.86 dropped catches per Test played.

Of all keepers to play 10 matches in that time, Pant's drops-per-Test record is the worst.

Source: CricViz


Maybe think carefully before accusing someone of making false statements next time.
Click to expand...

For a long time decision was split between Pant and Saha (due to his superior keeping skill). But in the last couple of years Pant has come such a long way that nobody talks about backing Saha assuming their batting levels are the same. Pant's keeping has remarkably improved. I don't know whether he is better than Rizwan or not. But he is definitely much much better than Pant that started his career.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
No its not. I've watched him keep wickets and I've watched Saha keep wickets too. The difference is night and day just between those two, let alone Pant and Rizwan.

Being a good keeper is not about having one good series. It's about rarely ever making an error. And I've seen Pant drop too many catches to take him seriously for the time being. Until last year he had the worst drops-per-Test record in the world among keepers with 10 or more test caps.
Click to expand...

How many catches did he drop since jan 2021 in tests?
I acknowledge that he used to be bad at keeping but he has improved and is now a proper test clasa wicketkeeper, hardly drops a chance these days.
[MENTION=151648]therealAB[/MENTION] Rizwan is definitely a better keeper but hasn't Pant improved, do you think he isn't a test class keeper yet?
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
This is a stat from last year:

Since the start of 2018, Rishabh Pant averages 0.86 dropped catches per Test played.

Of all keepers to play 10 matches in that time, Pant's drops-per-Test record is the worst.

Source: CricViz


Maybe think carefully before accusing someone of making false statements next time.
Click to expand...
That is from start of 2018 when he was a 20 year old kid. He was bad at that time, now he is very good and stats show that.
Commentators used to criticize him for his keeping, nowadays he gets a lot of praise.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
For a long time decision was split between Pant and Saha (due to his superior keeping skill). But in the last couple of years Pant has come such a long way that nobody talks about backing Saha assuming their batting levels are the same. Pant's keeping has remarkably improved. I don't know whether he is better than Rizwan or not. But he is definitely much much better than Pant that started his career.
Click to expand...

He has improved greatly. But he still drops catches on a fairly regular basis. I remember during the South Africa ODI series earlier this year he dropped multiple catches (including a sitter) and missed a stumping too. He has done a much better job with the gloves in England so far but I would have to see a sustained period of error-free keeping for my opinion on his glovework to change.
 
Rajdeep said:
Dhoni played 13 years of international T20s on reputation alone and based on his IPL heroics. He just have 1 T20I 50 and that too came in later part of his career. Pant is massive upgrade over him and considering his age/potential, it is only upswing from here. Infact, he would walk into any international side as a T20 player apart from England due to Butler factor.

#Truthbomb
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That says it all. #DelusionalBomb :91: :inti
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
How many catches did he drop since jan 2021 in tests?
I acknowledge that he used to be bad at keeping but he has improved and is now a proper test clasa wicketkeeper, hardly drops a chance these days.

[MENTION=151648]therealAB[/MENTION] Rizwan is definitely a better keeper but hasn't Pant improved, do you think he isn't a test class keeper yet?
Click to expand...

jeeteshssaxena said:
That is from start of 2018 when he was a 20 year old kid. He was bad at that time, now he is very good and stats show that.
Commentators used to criticize him for his keeping, nowadays he gets a lot of praise.
Click to expand...

Not my job to calculate his dropped catches. I just know that it happens fairly regularly and I notice it when it does.

Btw he dropped multiple catches and missed a stumping during the South Africa ODI series earlier this year. He dropped a catch in last test too off Thakur's bowling.

The fact that you think that a keeper can go from being one of the most statistically terrible keepers in the history of the game to a "test class keeper" in one year is some wishful thinking on your part. But then again, you did call him 'the greatest cricketer in the world right now'. So its not even the most ridiculous thing you've said here.
 
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Rizwan is a better keeper but Pant's keeping gets scrutinized far too much than anyone else. Only recently he became the fastest to 100 catches so the suggestion that he is an average keeper is absolutely ludicrous. You can't be an average keeper and get to 100 catches as fastest from Indian history. He is a very good keeper and an excellent test batsman( in the mould of Gilly).

Rizwan is an excellent test keeper and a good test batsman. <B>His average of 40 with 1000 runs is decent but Pant's average of 43 with 2000 runs and most of them in tough alien conditions puts him a league ahead of Rizwan and any other keeper batsman of this era</B>.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
How many catches did he drop since jan 2021 in tests?
I acknowledge that he used to be bad at keeping but he has improved and is now a proper test clasa wicketkeeper, hardly drops a chance these days.

[MENTION=151648]therealAB[/MENTION] Rizwan is definitely a better keeper but hasn't Pant improved, do you think he isn't a test class keeper yet?
Click to expand...

Pant is definitely test class, and with his batting one of the more valuable players in the world for me
 
Romali_rotti said:
Still can't prove Rizwan is night and day better than Pant. Got owned, next time don't over exaggerate..
Click to expand...

Not overexaggerating anything. Rizwan is one of the best keepers in the world (if not the best), whereas, Pant is one of the worst. And until recently was actually one of the worst in the history of the game.

Acting like an indignant fan boy about it, or being out of touch with reality won't change that.
 
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Romali_rotti said:
Ok,

Back up the above statement, got proof ? You made the claim, now show proof.
Click to expand...

Not every opinion has to be supported by stats. You should know since you have provided zero evidence or proof to support any claim you've made thus far.

Atleast I quoted some fact that highlighted how atrocious Pant was as a keeper until very recently.
 
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RedwoodOriginal said:
Not every opinion has to be supported by stats. You should know since you have provided zero evidence or proof to support any claim you've made thus far.

Atleast I quoted some fact that highlighted how atrocious Pant was as a keeper until very recently.
Click to expand...

I didn't make any claims in the latest set of posts. You did and you can't back up any of it.

You can't prove your claim that Rizwan is night and day better than Pant.

You can't prove now another one of your claims Pant was one of the worst WK In history.


Now

Awaiting you next claim which you won't be able to prove.

We could do this all day...
 
Romali_rotti said:
I didn't make any claims in the latest set of posts. You did and you can't back up any of it.

You can't prove your claim that Rizwan is night and day better than Pant.

You can't prove now another one of your claims Pant was one of the worst WK In history.


Now

Awaiting you next claim which you won't be able to prove.

We could do this all day...
Click to expand...

Already did. And I'm not the one going against conventional wisdom, you are.

I'm also not an indignant fan boy such as yourself, who has trouble coming to terms with reality.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Already did. And I'm not the one going against conventional wisdom, you are.

I'm also not an indignant fan boy such as yourself, who has trouble coming to terms with reality.
Click to expand...

Yap, yap, yap cause you are stuck in a hole.

Waiting on proof to your claims..
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
Currently he is the greatest cricketer in the world .
Click to expand...

Romali_rotti said:
I didn't make any claims in the latest set of posts. You did and you can't back up any of it.

You can't prove your claim that Rizwan is night and day better than Pant.

You can't prove now another one of your claims Pant was one of the worst WK In history.


Now

Awaiting you next claim which you won't be able to prove.

We could do this all day...
Click to expand...

I know you love to ask for proofs over and over again so while you are at it now, could you also ask Mr jeetesh to back up his claim with proofs? Thanks. :inti
 
Romali_rotti said:
Says the Rizwan fan boi getting all butt hurt and desperate that he has to make claims about Pant which he can't back up &#55357;&#56837;
Click to expand...

If you think that Rizwan isn't in the conversation for the best wicket-keeper in the world than you're utterly deluded and your opinions on cricket are meaningless because you have no credibility.

Rizwan has many areas to improve in when it comes to his batting. But his glovework is as spotless and error-free as it gets. The only keeper who is on his level right now is Ben Foakes.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
If you think that Rizwan isn't in the conversation for the best wicket-keeper in the world than you're utterly deluded and your opinions on cricket are meaningless because you have no credibility.

Rizwan has many areas to improve in when it comes to his batting. But his glovework is as spotless and error-free as it gets. The only keeper who is on his level right now is Ben Foakes.
Click to expand...

You are getting all wrong, you need to read one of my recent posts.

I hinted that Rizwan might be a better keeper than Pant.

My argument was on your fan boi statements like Pant was one of the worst ever or that Rizwan is night and day better than Pant.

Had you said currently Rizwan is a better gloveman there would be no arguments here.

If you say things like Rizwan is night and day above Pant well then you need to back up your statement, surely if Rizwan is that ahead the stats would prove it..
 
Romali_rotti said:
You are getting all wrong, you need to read one of my recent posts.

I hinted that Rizwan might be a better keeper than Pant.

My argument was on your fan boi statements like Pant was one of the worst ever or that Rizwan is night and day better than Pant.

Had you said currently Rizwan is a better gloveman there would be no arguments here.

If you say things like Rizwan is night and day above Pant well then you need to back up your statement, surely if Rizwan is that ahead the stats would prove it..
Click to expand...

Yeah. Until recently, Pant was statistically one of the worst wicketkeepers in the world. Here is the stat, since its obvious to me that you have trouble remembering things that you saw hours ago:

Since the start of 2018, Rishabh Pant averages 0.86 dropped catches per Test played.

Of all keepers to play 10 matches in that time, Pant's drops-per-Test record is the worst.

Source: CricViz

The stat hasn't been updated this year so whose to say that he still isn't?

I've given more evidence and proof to back my claims than I had any reason to. Rizwan is lightyears ahead of Pant when it comes to wicketkeeping because Rizwan wasn't dropping sitters until recently like Pant was in the South Africa series. Pant is also not better than most of the active wicketkeepers in the world right now, which by default makes him one of the worst.

I know all of this is hard for you to digest, being the Pant fan boy that you are. But sometimes a dose of reality is just what you need to reconnect with it.
 
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RedwoodOriginal said:
Yeah. Until recently, Pant was statistically one of the worst wicketkeepers in the world. Here is the stat, since its obvious to me that you have trouble remembering things that you saw hours ago:

Since the start of 2018, Rishabh Pant averages 0.86 dropped catches per Test played.

Of all keepers to play 10 matches in that time, Pant's drops-per-Test record is the worst.

Source: CricViz

The stat hasn't been updated this year so whose to say that he still isn't?

I've given more evidence and proof to back my claims than I had any reason to. Rizwan is lightyears ahead of Pant when it comes to wicketkeeping because Rizwan wasn't dropping sitters until recently like Pant was in the South Africa series. Pant is also not better than most of the active wicketkeepers in the world right now, which by default makes him one of the worst.

I know all of this is hard for you to digest, being the Pant fan boy that you are. But sometimes a dose of reality is just what you need to reconnect with it.
Click to expand...

Ok What's Rizwan's drop rate from the time he debuted till now ? This should settle the night and day argument.
 
Romali_rotti said:
Ok What's Rizwan's drop rate from the time he debuted till now ? This should settle the night and day argument.
Click to expand...

Rizwan must be the fastest to 100 catches of all keepers of all-time if he is that good to be rated as night and day ahead of Pant. Is he though? Does he have 100 catches even? :inti
 
Ab Fan said:
Rizwan must be the fastest to 100 catches of all keepers of all-time if he is that good to be rated as night and day ahead of Pant. Is he though? Does he have 100 catches even? :inti
Click to expand...

Number of dismissals and catches dropped are two completely different things. Your number of dismissals depends heavily on the number of chances the bowlers in your side create. The catches you drop, on the other hand usually tend to be because of your own incompetence.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Why don't you go and find out? #GoogleIsYourFriend

About time you expanded your knowledge.
Click to expand...

I am not the one who made the claim, you did. So onus on you buddy...


If stats prove Rizwan is night and day ahead, I whole heartedly will acknowledge I was wrong, Come on you can do it...
 
Romali_rotti said:
I am not the one who made the claim, you did. So onus on you buddy...


If stats prove Rizwan is night and day ahead, I whole heartedly will acknowledge I was wrong, Come on you can do it...
Click to expand...

You are the one going against conventional wisdom, and the one holding the minority view. So yeah, the onus is on you.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
<B>Number of dismissals and catches dropped are two completely different things</B>. Your number of dismissals depends heavily on the number of chances the bowlers in your side create. The catches you drop, on the other hand usually tend to be because of your own incompetence.
Click to expand...

They don't interlink each other directly but they are far from completely different things. If you have gotten to fastest to X number of catches that means you are probably taking most of those catches coming your way.

Some players simply get scrutinized the most after every chance and some go under the radar. Pant is a former case and hence he gets so much diverse opinions and criticism. But it is not hard to understand that you are far from being called as bad or below average keeper if you are getting to fastest to 100 catches by an Indian in their all-time history unless ofcourse the said keeper wear clothes with some sort of magnetic object attached in it so that he gets a lot more catches than the other keepers in the games :gilly
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
You are the one going against conventional wisdom, and the one holding the minority view. So yeah, the onus is on you.
Click to expand...

So you cant put up Rizwan's stats, I take it since you are backing out, Rizwan is just better but not night and day ahead of Pant...
 
Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
That says it all. #DelusionalBomb :91: :inti
Click to expand...

Am I saying something wrong? He can easily walk into following teams:

Australia - They would anyday prefer him over Alex Carey

New Zealand - He is better than Tim Seifert

West Indies - Though Nicholas Pooran is their captain, they would easily pick Pant...hand him the gloves and would play Pooran as batsman alone.

Srilanka - C'mmon now

Bangladesh - C'mmon now V2

Afghanistan - C'mmon now V3

Pakistan - Though Rizwan is doing great, Pakistan team would easily take someone like Pant and relieve Rizwan of his gloves duties to focus on his batting.


Only and only England side he wont get in due to Butler factor and with back up keepers like Bairstow.
 
Rajdeep said:
Am I saying something wrong? He can easily walk into following teams:

Australia - They would anyday prefer him over Alex Carey

New Zealand - He is better than Tim Seifert

West Indies - Though Nicholas Pooran is their captain, they would easily pick Pant...hand him the gloves and would play Pooran as batsman alone.

Srilanka - C'mmon now

Bangladesh - C'mmon now V2

Afghanistan - C'mmon now V3

Pakistan - Though Rizwan is doing great, Pakistan team would easily take someone like Pant and relieve Rizwan of his gloves duties to focus on his batting.


Only and only England side he wont get in due to Butler factor and with back up keepers like Bairstow.
Click to expand...

:wahab2:wahab2:wahab2

No we would not. We do not have time to invest in another keeper who does not take his fitness seriously and might be good a few years from now.

Pant's batting is an asset, his keeping is a liability.
 
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Rajdeep said:
Am I saying something wrong? He can easily walk into following teams:

Australia - They would anyday prefer him over Alex Carey

New Zealand - He is better than Tim Seifert

West Indies - Though Nicholas Pooran is their captain, they would easily pick Pant...hand him the gloves and would play Pooran as batsman alone.

Srilanka - C'mmon now

Bangladesh - C'mmon now V2

Afghanistan - C'mmon now V3

Pakistan - Though Rizwan is doing great, Pakistan team would easily take someone like Pant and relieve Rizwan of his gloves duties to focus on his batting.


Only and only England side he wont get in due to Butler factor and with back up keepers like Bairstow.
Click to expand...

Pakistan already experimented with Umar Akmal and that experiment failed. :inti
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
:wahab2:wahab2:wahab2

No we would not. We do not have time to invest in another keeper who does not take his fitness seriously and might be good a few years from now.

Pant's batting is an asset, his keeping is a liability.
Click to expand...

Though these are all fictional discussions and no way to prove one way or the other, but I would be very surprised if Pant don't walk into Pakistani batting line up in all formats, with or without Rizwan in side.

Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
Pakistan already experimented with Umar Akmal and that experiment failed. :inti
Click to expand...

Yes, Umar Akmal has won his team test series in Australia and England. Pant is ten times the batsman Umar Akmal ever was.
 
Rajdeep said:
Though these are all fictional discussions and no way to prove one way or the other, but I would be very surprised if Pant don't walk into Pakistani batting line up in all formats, with or without Rizwan in side.
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Pant's batting and wicketkeeping are two different things. As a batter he would walk into any side in the world. There are few batters in the world as naturally gifted and dynamic as him. Who possess the ability to take the game by the neck and just run-off with it. Sky is the limit really potential-wise.

But his wicketkeeping has glaring flaws. He is known to make blunders on a fairly regular basis. He is not as quick or as sharp as he should be for someone who is keeping wickets on Indian turners. And whether people agree or not, his level of fitness contributes to his keeping too. He is not as agile as the de Kocks and Rizwans of the world.

Rizwan in particular is a better keeper in every way. He is everything Pant is not. Sharp, error-free and agile. Which is precisely why he is one of the best keepers in the world.

I'm not saying Pant can't improve and turn into a very good wicketkeeper. I'm saying the simple fact is that right now he is not.
 
Best wicket keeper batsman in the world all formats combined.

Weightage is Tests > ODIs > T20s( all included).

:inti
 
Maiden ODI century! Surprised it took him this long.

Fantastic player, India's best IMO.
 
I would say it’s fair to rename the thread to Rishabh Pant performance watch or something at this point.
 
Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
If he can play like this in LOIs then he will be. :inti
Click to expand...

On verge to become of the greatest wicket keeper batsman of all-time in that case.

At the moment, still the best wicket keeper batsman of this generation across all formats. Sensational player. :inti
 
Performs in clutch must win games with series on the line. First in Aus in tests, now in ODIs in England. More to come.

Gilchrist
Pant
Dhoni

In that order now. Not adding MSD’s captaincy, just going by purely as cricketers.
 
<B>Rishabh Pant last 10 ODI innings :</B>

77(40) SR - 192.5 vs ENG
78(62) SR - 125.8 vs ENG
16 vs SA
85(71) SR - 119.7 vs SA
0 vs SA
11 vs WI
18 vs WI
56(54) SR - 103.7 vs WI
0 vs ENG
125 (113) at 110 s/r vs England

Overall Average of 51 and strike rate of 115. A once in many many generation cricketer. :inti
 
These Pant vs Rizwan comparisons are LMAO

Reminds me of Bumrah vs Hasan Ali thread :)

ps : Pant's only competitor is Adam Gilchrist !
 
Technics 1210 said:
His maiden ODI century today in 26 ODI matches.

One cold pie per 25 games on track. :)))
Click to expand...

One century in 25 games is not bad for a middle order player.

Inzi has 10 in 378 games, that's one per 37 matches.

Yuvi has 14 in 304, that is one per 22 games.

I expected this kind of logic from :inti, but who knew that even you are in the same boat as far as cricketing acumen is considered.


You were talking a lot about cakes, pastries and pies , well you've just got served.
 
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