The success of Indian universities

[jusarrived]

NEW DELHI: Brand IIT may have just got bigger. This year, for the first time, investment firms, which usually hire management graduates from Princeton, Wharton and MIT, were seen knocking on the doors of IIT Delhi to recruit engineering graduates for finance jobs.
The annual pay packages are in the range of $60,000-100,000 . the same amount that a Wharton or MIT graduate for the same position would be offered. Out of the batch of 450, about 25 have got offers from I-banks like Merrill Lynch, PIMCO, Deutsche Bank, Goldman Sachs, UBS and Lehman Brothers. Rachit Jain,who has got an offer of $100,000 from Pacific Investment Management Company (PIMCO), is elated.

"I had planned to do an MBA and only then was I expecting to be made such a lucrative offer. Had this not worked out, my career would have charted a different course.' Geetanjai Mittal, an associate with Merrill Lynch, said: "We usually hire students from MIT, Wharton and IIMs, and many of them have an IIT degree too. So this year, we decided that we might as well hire directly from IIT.' Students are essentially being hired for finance jobs . which have traditionally been considered the preserve of MBA students.

"An MBA degree is not mandatory for these jobs.What's actually required are number-crunching skills which are well-possessed by these engineering students," added Mittal.

What this also means is that many of these students have quit the idea of pursuing an MBA since it would be precisely for such jobs that they would want that degree.

Akhilesh Chaudhary, who has got an offer from Merrill Lynch, has dropped plans to go to IIM Bangalore where he had been selected. "I've been offered an annual package of $60,000, plus a $10,000 sign-on bonus and performance-based incentives, and I'll most probably be posted in London or New York. So this just changes my career plans,' he says.

Amit Aggarwal, who has been offered the position of an analyst at Merrill Lynch, says: "If I went into management after this, it would be because that would allow me to shift into finance. I had got a job with Google, Bangalore and after a few years of work experience, would have gone in for an MBA. Now all these plans appear to be pretty much redundant.'





wats the point of hiring engineering graduate's with no commerce background for mgmt jobs like I-bankin etc?

 

[jusarrived]

miggy,your thots on this !

 

[MIG]

I was thinking about it .... does seem strange but I can see the logic from the employers point of view - why get egocentric MBAs when you can get humble engineering guys who can crucnh numbers all day ? On top of that, Engineering students are dime a dozen now so maybe they are cheaper to hire ?

 

[jusarrived]

I article does say they are being paid as much as MBA's,so obviosly its not the costs which is making them hire engineers...but wud these guys be able to handle such jobs whithout knowing basics of economics? ...I mean, just reading news papers wont be enuf be a fund manager or a Investment banker!

 

[MIG]

Or could it be that Economists over estimate their own skills ? Remember IT folks used to do that but a simple tool such as Excel finished them off !

 

[Schiller]

Somethings off.

While, I admit that MBA finance is not really needed for that kind of stuff, I am not sure if engg students are the proper substititue. that said, perhaps these guys really are hired just to crunch numbers given to them upon formulae given to them.

 

[zushy_786]

Somethings off.

While, I admit that MBA finance is not really needed for that kind of stuff, I am not sure if engg students are the proper substititue. that said, perhaps these guys really are hired just to crunch numbers given to them upon formulae given to them.

I'm surprised as well, maybe the upper level management has finally lost it or they can't find the kind of workers to mold within the commerce program.....

 

[Officer Barbrady]

Somethings off.

perhaps these guys really are hired just to crunch numbers given to them upon formulae given to them.

That's right. Plus they have training programs that teach what they need.

 

[Schiller]

That's right. Plus they have training programs that teach what they need.

still something seems off here.

 

[spongebob]

For me, they are going for future stars, in the hope of hiring them before their competition. Its a good strategy, as it may be much more expensive hiring these guys in the future.

 

[robosapien]

i think engg students can do a lot of things better than comp science/mba guys. personally i think mba is useless apart from mba with finance.

 

[Schiller]

now now, lets not knock mba off entirely in favour of engg, damned labourers

 

[robosapien]

now now, lets not knock mba off entirely in favour of engg, damned labourers

we can do comp sc and mba stuff but reverse isnt possible

 

[Schiller]

we can do comp sc and mba stuff but reverse isnt possible

indeed it isn't but in 4 yrs time, why not. its a matter of time. if mba was 2 and then you had 4 yrs to do something i m sure people could do engg. its not exactly hard science

 

[robosapien]

indeed it isn't but in 4 yrs time, why not. its a matter of time. if mba was 2 and then you had 4 yrs to do something i m sure people could do engg. its not exactly hard science

but mba is masters not bachelors.
if someone is good at business, he can do without mba.

 

[Schiller]

but mba is masters not bachelors.
if someone is good at business, he can do without mba.

mba though masters is not very masterly, the only thing its still around for is networking. thats all that MBA gives you waisay. More than just education it hones you for a certain way of life kind of thinggy.

 

[robosapien]

mba though masters is not very masterly, the only thing its still around for is networking. thats all that MBA gives you waisay. More than just education it hones you for a certain way of life kind of thinggy.

which doesnt suit me at all waisay.

secondly, i hate human resource deptts and they r full of mba ppl.

 

[Schiller]

which doesnt suit me at all waisay.

secondly, i hate human resource deptts and they r full of mba ppl.

we all hate HR. mba would make you a better man ive always said

 

[samisback]

MBA is for people who are thick and dont have any other career options ....every aira ghaira nathu ghaira has done /doing MBA! take my advice lads do something constructive which pays unlike mba....

 

[sana]

this sounds very weird. BBAs n MBAs have a thorough understanding of the business environment. Finance is not jus based on calculation. instead of choosing engineers n teaching them all the all concepts of business, y not chose MBAs who r good at calculations n mathematics!

 

[samisback]

i wonder what makes people think, MBA is all maths and calulations ? same with accountancy...........sure it may have some calulcations n maths but trust me 70% of the material ant calculations n maths!

and yes i think this is the way forward now...teaching engineers finance...and finance people MBBS and Doctors engineering

 

[jusarrived]

i wonder what makes people think, MBA is all maths and calulations ? same with accountancy...........sure it may have some calulcations n maths but trust me 70% of the material ant calculations n maths!

and yes i think this is the way forward now...teaching engineers finance...and finance people MBBS and Doctors engineering

don strain your self!

No wonder u settled for serving tables )

 

[samisback]

don strain your self!

No wonder u settled for serving tables )

look whose talking..........................

table no 9 is waiting from the past 10 minutes where are you ? seems like somebody doesnt want tip from table 9

 

[jusarrived]

look whose talking..........................

table no 9 is waiting from the past 10 minutes where are you ? seems like somebody doesnt want tip from table 9

I just thot an engg doin finance job makes more sense than a waiter givin opinion on this topic...no hard feelings ok!

 

[ShowStopper]

Yes It does. It might look crazy at first then as the time goes by you will see a trend and it will become a normality.

 

[CricketCartoons]

The failure of IITs (hyped technology institutions in India)

These IITs were formed to help india. but they have become employment exchange where students go hoping to join an MNC.

What has been their contribution?

Why couldn't they design cheap computers for rural india? Renewable energy resources? Water purifier systems?

Not asking for Nobel prize (all indians who received were not from IITs), but solving indias problems, instead of slaving away for foreign companies, or going abroad (after government subsidized education).

 

[gani999]

These IITs were formed to help india. but they have become employment exchange where students go hoping to join an MNC.

What has been their contribution?

Why couldn't they design cheap computers for rural india? Renewable energy resources? Water purifier systems?

Not asking for Nobel prize (all indians who received were not from IITs), but solving indias problems, instead of slaving away for foreign companies, or going abroad (after government subsidized education).

The IITs were fantastic places - when there were only five of them. The competition to get in used to be fierce and the entrance test was set in such a way that only the best and brightest made it.

Then some village i**iot in the Ministry of Human Resources Development decided that there had to be more and went about setting up dozens of IITs. The fool obviously couldn't figure out that mass production has and will always kill quality.

So now there is an IIT in almost every state, and apart from the original six (five + ITBHU), none of the others have made the cut in terms of quality. Some are still in the process of being set up and no student wants to study in these places.

But there is hope. A lot of foreign educated Indians with PhDs have been returning to India in the last two decades and are stepping up the quality of the research. The salaries for researchers too has gone up. India has always been one of Asia's leaders in scientific output in terms of peer reviewed publications, and the situation is definitely getting better.

I sincerely hope the Government stops interfering and lets the IT faculty do their jobs. But that is probably asking for too much with the present minister.

 

[CricketCartoons]

They don't even compare well with tier-2 colleges of the world. Haven't contributed to finding solutions to india's problems. And yet they are hyped? Why dont the students join their college as professors and take up research? After decades of their formation, one would have hoped that they will have done some positive contribution to research and technology, but all we see is some odd "success" story of some guy becoming a top executive in some MNC.

So can it be concluded that IITs have failed their mission and vision?

 

[endymion248]

Because their purpose is not to form brilliant people but rather tag already brilliant people so that they can be recruited by multinationals and american universities. They make brain drain much easier.

 

[CricketCartoons]

The IITs were fantastic places - when there were only five of them. The competition to get in used to be fierce and the entrance test was set in such a way that only the best and brightest made it.

You mean when there were only 5, they were contributing well in research, and when they became more, their research contribution declined?

 

[JaDed]

Funding for research in India is an issue they expect the students to work for peanuts and mostly for free.
There is no proper funding mechanism plus IIT seat is got through an entrance exam how stupid is that, a student who has just learned to solve all problems might not even be interested in science but wanted to crack JEE will get in.
I think the system is at fault here.Like Singapore NUS when we subsidize the education we should make them put a bond of compulsory 4 year research in the country.
Subsidization is not the answer as it defn doesn't work out well.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Because their purpose is not to form brilliant people but rather tag already brilliant people so that they can be recruited by multinationals and american universities. They make brain drain much easier.

Don't think they are that brilliant either (yes the very top rankers would be) but the rest are just one eyed among the blind.

Their exam which is supposed to be very tough, had single digit cutoffs.

Out of the maximum possible marks of 160 in each subject in 2009, the cut-offs in Maths and Chemistry barely broke into double digits (11 marks each) while it remained a single-digit score in Physics (8 marks).

So they still got into iits by scoring very low.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...s-continue-to-dog-IIT/articleshow/4938014.cms

 

[anakin]

Simputer (IISc)
Hardware Specs for Aakash tablets .. drafted by IITs..
Electronic Voting Machine.. IIT

 

[endymion248]

The IITs were fantastic places - when there were only five of them. The competition to get in used to be fierce and the entrance test was set in such a way that only the best and brightest made it.

Then some village i**iot in the Ministry of Human Resources Development decided that there had to be more and went about setting up dozens of IITs. The fool obviously couldn't figure out that mass production has and will always kill quality.

So now there is an IIT in almost every state, and apart from the original six (five + ITBHU), none of the others have made the cut in terms of quality. Some are still in the process of being set up and no student wants to study in these places.

But there is hope. A lot of foreign educated Indians with PhDs have been returning to India in the last two decades and are stepping up the quality of the research. The salaries for researchers too has gone up. India has always been one of Asia's leaders in scientific output in terms of peer reviewed publications, and the situation is definitely getting better.

I sincerely hope the Government stops interfering and lets the IT faculty do their jobs. But that is probably asking for too much with the present minister.

How are they good universities when they can be ''destroyed'' by having less competition on entrance exams? What do entrance exams have to do with the quality of a university? Especially accounting for the fact that Indian population grew 3x times since the 50s.

 

[CricketCartoons]

also [MENTION=44367]anakin[/MENTION] is from some iit if i remember correctly, and yesterday he found my solution to a simple probability 101 problem as wrong ( when i corrected him, he changed track by saying it was tedious). so if that is an example, i think we know why IITs have failed.

 

[anakin]

Water purifiers:

http://www.tech24hours.com/2011/11/iit-kharagpur-students-develop-rs-300.html

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities...owcost-nano-water-purifier/article4446899.ece

http://archive.indianexpress.com/ne...kgp-trio-for-india-s-rural-population/875057/

 

[Slog]

So can it be concluded that IITs have failed their mission and vision?

Was it a stated mission to contribute in research output and innovation in technology?

I mean in their current guise they still have a net positive effect on India I am sure

 

[endymion248]

Don't think they are that brilliant either (yes the very top rankers would be) but the rest are just one eyed among the blind.

Their exam which is supposed to be very tough, had single digit cutoffs.



So they still got into iits by scoring very low.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...s-continue-to-dog-IIT/articleshow/4938014.cms

They may not be brilliant by more meaningful definitions of the word but it does take a specific kind of brilliance to be selected among millions of students. Low scores are also a reflection of test difficulty, not only of the student's ability.

 

[anakin]

also [MENTION=44367]anakin[/MENTION] is from some iit if i remember correctly, and yesterday he found my solution to a simple probability 101 problem as wrong ( when i corrected him, he changed track by saying it was tedious). so if that is an example, i think we know why IITs have failed.

I dont think I have mentioned my alma mater here!! you simple presume too much!!

As for probability, the last time i solved a probability problem was 10 years ago, So forgive me zeal in not recognizing an alternative solution!

 

[gani999]

You mean when there were only 5, they were contributing well in research, and when they became more, their research contribution declined?

The original five are still doing very good research.

But then the original aim of setting up the IIT was never to produce researchers. They were primarily set up as institutions meant to train technocrats, a bulk of whom would enter industry, while a minority would do research.

Now if you have a set of world class institutions producing brilliant technocrats, you have to have to a proper techno-industrial environment in the country that can make use of their talents. Unfortunately, the government could never ensure this with their socialist economic model between the '50s and the '90s, leading to these bright people leaving India in droves.

With the liberalization, things have improved in the last two decades, and the brain drain from the IITs has reduced from 50% to less than 20%.

The newer IITs are way backward in research, but the hope is that at least a few of them will catch up with the older five.

 

[JaDed]

The posters on the thread are one dimensional in their answer, they succeeded or they failed which is sad coz it might not be the case.

 

[anakin]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...s-20-lakh-crore-Study/articleshow/3752658.cms

IITians' contribution to economy is Rs 20 lakh crore: Study

Every one rupee invested in an IIT has had an economic impact of Rs 15 and each IIT graduate meant 100 new jobs, says a study commissioned by an umbrella organisation of IIT alumni.

Raging debates over the contribution made by the IITians on whom the government has invested millions of rupees over the past over five decades could well be settled if the findings of the study by PanIIT are any indication.

The interim report of the IIT Alumni Impact Study 2008 says nearly 200,000 alumni of the country's premier technical institutions "have been associated with Rs 20 lakh crore of incremental economic value creation'' across industry, government and entrepreneurial activity over the past five decades.

The IITians have also been involved in the creation of 20 million new jobs, which roughly translates into one IITian creating 100 jobs, says the study.

Zinnov Management Consulting, a private consultancy firm, which undertook the survey, arrived at this estimation by extrapolating the figures submitted by 4,573 alumni who have till date participated in the web-based survey, according to Rajan Srikanth, the coordinator for the IIT Alumni Impact Study.

""Assuming that the government has invested between Rs 20,000 crore and 40,000 crore into the IITs during the last 58 years, based on the findings of this survey we could say that every one rupee invested in the IIT has led to an economic impact of Rs 15,'' argued B Santhanam, chairman PanIIT 2008 and managing director, Saint Gobain. PanIIT is the umbrella organization of the seven IIT alumni foundations.

The study was launched to take stock of contributions made by the IITians across professions and geographies since the first batch graduated out of IIT Kharagpur in 1956.

"The initial analysis reveals that among the IITians who had graduated before 2001, four out of 10 are in top leadership roles in corporations, educational institutions, research labs, NGOs, governmental agencies, politics and as entrepreneurial heads. Seven out of 10 are currently based in India with two out of 10 being returnees after careers abroad,'' said Santhanam. The IITians in senior positions in the industry and government across the world have an annual budgetary responsibility of over Rs 40 lakh crore.

Another fact that has emerged, according to Zinnov CEO Pari Natarajan, is that 54% of the top 500 Indian companies currently have at least one IIT alumnus on their board of directors. "These companies have cumulative revenue that is 10 times greater than that of the other companies on the list,'' he said.

The complete report documenting the details of the survey findings will be unveiled during the PanIIT conference to be held at the IIT Madras from December 19 to 21.

Enjoy!!

 

[gani999]

How are they good universities when they can be ''destroyed'' by having less competition on entrance exams? What do entrance exams have to do with the quality of a university? Especially accounting for the fact that Indian population grew 3x times since the 50s.

The number of seats in the IITs has gone up by nearly 300% in that time. It is a lot easier to get a seat in the IITs now than it used to be.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Was it a stated mission to contribute in research output and innovation in technology?

I mean in their current guise they still have a net positive effect on India I am sure

The history of the IIT system dates back to 1946 when a committee was set up by Hon'ble Sir Jogendra Singh, Member of the Viceroy's Executive Council, Department of Education, Health and Agriculture to consider the setting up of Higher Technical Institutions for post war industrial development in India. The 22 member committee headed by Sri N.R.Sarkar, in its report, recommended the establishment of four Higher Technical Institutions in the Eastern, Western, Northern and Southern regions, possibly on the lines of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, USA, with a number of secondary institutions affiliated to it. The report also urged the speedy establishment of all the four institutions with the ones in the East and the West to be started immediately. The committee also felt that such institutes would not only produce undergraduates but they should be engaged in research, producing research workers and technical teachers as well. The standard of the graduates should be at par with those from first class institutions abroad. They felt that the proportion of undergraduates and postgraduate students should be 2:1.

So given the original mission, it can be safely said that they have failed so far.

 

[endymion248]

Was it a stated mission to contribute in research output and innovation in technology?

I mean in their current guise they still have a net positive effect on India I am sure

I think that, in higher education models, you either have Napoleonic elitism leading to either a strong bureaucracy (like in France) or independent elites in fields like business (eg in anglo-saxons countries) or homogeneity in quality which leads to better education on average and stronger peripheric regions (like in Germany (although they have changed recently), Netherlands and Scandinavia). IITs are an example of elitism but they don't really have its benefits since the graduates mostly go abroad. They would probably have better results with the other model. They may not have Nobel prizes or whatever but, on average, there is no saying their society wouldn't be better off with less elitism.

 

[endymion248]

The number of seats in the IITs has gone up by nearly 300% in that time. It is a lot easier to get a seat in the IITs now than it used to be.

And there is 300% the number of people in India (if your number is for the 50s). Maybe even more since the literacy rates went up and there are more people trying to apply.

 

[CricketCartoons]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...s-20-lakh-crore-Study/articleshow/3752658.cms



Enjoy!!

Not asking for contribution to economy. Even taxi drivers in canada and UK contribute to indian economy. My question is have they failed the purpose for which they were created?

If being glorified employment exchange was the purpose they they have succeeded.

 

[gani999]

And there is 300% the number of people in India (if your number is for the 50s). Maybe even more since the literacy rates went up and there are more people trying to apply.

The number of people applying for engineering courses hasn't gone up much in the last 25 years or so. This is because there are plenty of other opportunities available for youngsters nowadays than the engineering-medicine-civil services options. However, the seats available have gone up exponentially, thanks to numerous new engineering colleges that have come up.

There are a lot more students who are taking up law, social sciences and arts nowadays compared to earlier times.

 

[Syed1]

From what I've heard from my Indian friends is that IITs are best if you want to go abroad for Masters since their degree is recognized in some parts of the world.

 

[Syed1]

The number of people applying for engineering courses hasn't gone up much in the last 25 years or so. This is because there are plenty of other opportunities available for youngsters nowadays than the engineering-medicine-civil services options. However, the seats available have gone up exponentially, thanks to numerous new engineering colleges that have come up.

There are a lot more students who are taking up law, social sciences and arts nowadays than there used to be earlier.

The world can survive without everybody expect for doctors and engineers.

Any nation that wants to progress needs maximum supply of engineers.

 

[CricketCartoons]

The world can survive without everybody expect for doctors and engineers.

Any nation that wants to progress needs maximum supply of engineers.

Wrong. The world can survive without everybody except for farmers.

 

[Syed1]

Wrong. The world can survive without everybody except for farmers.

The farmer falls ill, but in your hypothetical world there are no doctors so he promptly passes away.

The farmer's farm equipment breaks down, again no engineers around to fix it.

 

[gani999]

The world can survive without everybody expect for doctors and engineers.

Any nation that wants to progress needs maximum supply of engineers.

Wrong. Every profession is equally important for progress.

Engineers are important but no society can progress without doctors, scientists, lawyers, economists, farmers, sociologists, teachers and even artists. None of these professions are engineering related.

 

[CricketCartoons]

How come other asian countries are doing well, and india is so lagging behind. Is it all because of less funding? Seems IITs are not fit to even tie shoe laces of other institutes in asia, let alone the world.

 

[Sachin136]

[MENTION=136588]CricketCartoons[/MENTION] clearly does not understand the way most university ranking are calculated. The quality of the facilities matter and clearly in that criteria the IITs fall behind most other universities due to less funding. Another criteria is the student-to-faculty ratio which is high due to the amount of student intake. A low ranking does not mean the research output or the quality of education is low in general.

 

[srh]

IITs are slaves making industry.

 

[Syed1]

Why are Indian's getting so worked up about criticism for their beloved IITs?

You only get better once you realize there is room to improve. My alma mater, McGill University, just got ranked as the top ranked school in Canada and 24th in the World. The first thing the principle emailed the current and former students was "Congratulations - still a long way to go"


If you are happy with mediocrity you will remain mediocre..

 

[Sachin136]

Why are Indian's getting so worked up about criticism for their beloved IITs?

You only get better once you realize there is room to improve. My alma mater, McGill University, just got ranked as the top ranked school in Canada and 24th in the World. The first thing the principle emailed the current and former students was "Congratulations - still a long way to go"


If you are happy with mediocrity you will remain mediocre..

No one is getting worried. However QS ranking are not the way to judge universities.

Especially since all the rankings depend on the program. For example if anyone says McGill is better than Toronto for the program I went to just because McGill is ranked higher, then I’ll just call them mad. However for a different program McGill may be better.

Do you think the IITs aren’t improving? Does defending a particular university against a ridiculous argument mean that we are happy with the current state and don’t want the university to improve?

 

[anakin]

No one is getting worried. However QS ranking are not the way to judge universities.

Especially since all the rankings depend on the program. For example if anyone says McGill is better than Toronto for the program I went to just because McGill is ranked higher, then I’ll just call them mad. However for a different program McGill may be better.

Do you think the IITs aren’t improving? Does defending a particular university against a ridiculous argument mean that we are happy with the current state and don’t want the university to improve?

Thanks

 

[Sachin136]

Because their purpose is not to form brilliant people but rather tag already brilliant people so that they can be recruited by multinationals and american universities. They make brain drain much easier.

This is true for every selective university in the world. By your logic MIT, with an acceptance rate <10% just recruits bright individuals and hands them a degree so they can be recruited by companies. The universities don't play a part in their development?

 

[tempus123]

The IITs were fantastic places - when there were only five of them. The competition to get in used to be fierce and the entrance test was set in such a way that only the best and brightest made it.

Then some village i**iot in the Ministry of Human Resources Development decided that there had to be more and went about setting up dozens of IITs. The fool obviously couldn't figure out that mass production has and will always kill quality.

So now there is an IIT in almost every state, and apart from the original six (five + ITBHU), none of the others have made the cut in terms of quality. Some are still in the process of being set up and no student wants to study in these places.

But there is hope. A lot of foreign educated Indians with PhDs have been returning to India in the last two decades and are stepping up the quality of the research. The salaries for researchers too has gone up. India has always been one of Asia's leaders in scientific output in terms of peer reviewed publications, and the situation is definitely getting better.

I sincerely hope the Government stops interfering and lets the IT faculty do their jobs. But that is probably asking for too much with the present minister.

There is always a start.. the hope is in 20 years time, these new IITs will attract good talent too.

 

[tempus123]

The farmer falls ill, but in your hypothetical world there are no doctors so he promptly passes away.

The farmer's farm equipment breaks down, again no engineers around to fix it.

What about Police/Military ?

 

[Raw deal]

Lot of IIT ians get recruited even before they finish their courses and they earn in crores. I don't know what the OP is crying about.

 

[aniket1911]

Dude india's population is billion plus and you are saying adding more IITs will dilute it's quality? It will only help more talented ones to study in india's premier institute. Other IITs are new and will take time to match the standard of already established one but it is RIGHT way to go about it.
IF you want better quality then you should argue about making creative and experimental culture in IITs like CALTECH etc not about making IIT and exclusive club where only handful of india's talent can go through.

 

[Garuda]

It's a failure of other sectors who couldn't help IITs to reach its true potential.

In a society you need money , education, political eagerness and supply demand in right proportion. Having high education without others will end up being those products going out of the country.

That doesn't mean the fault was with the education institutes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[endymion248]

This is true for every selective university in the world. By your logic MIT, with an acceptance rate <10% just recruits bright individuals and hands them a degree so they can be recruited by companies. The universities don't play a part in their development?

MIT is ranked in the top 10 when IITs don't break the top200 so obviously MIT contributes to its students development far more. How can a poor quality university pretend to help students other than tagging them for recruitment?

 

[abc_to_xyz]

Having Indians as the CEO of Microsoft, Google etc is only going to help Indians in future. You can already seem them chalking out plans to Improve Indian infrastructure through their respective companies. But we Pakistanis can only gossip about others while doing nothing sadly.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Having Indians as the CEO of Microsoft, Google etc is only going to help Indians in future. You can already seem them chalking out plans to Improve Indian infrastructure through their respective companies. But we Pakistanis can only gossip about others while doing nothing sadly.

Potential has always been there for Pakistan, same as India imo however Ayub Khan and islamization happened and Pakistan is what it is now because of it...

 

[Sachin136]

MIT is ranked in the top 10 when IITs don't break the top200 so obviously MIT contributes to its students development far more. How can a poor quality university pretend to help students other than tagging them for recruitment?

How is the ranking relevant? You said that all the IIT does is accept bright students and give them a degree. This is why their alumni have been so successful as they were good students in the first place. Can’t I apply the same argument to MIT? They accept very intelligent students as well and their alumni have been prosperous. If the input for both universities is similar and the output is also roughly similar, then can’t I argue that if all IIT does it give a degree, then MIT also does the same?

Poor quality university? Have you studied at IIT, checked out their courseware or talked to many students who have attended that institution? If not, how can you make a comment that it does not provide a high quality education? Are your assertions based on rankings, in which quality of education is only 1 part of the methodology of calculations?

 

[endymion248]

How is the ranking relevant? You said that all the IIT does is accept bright students and give them a degree. This is why their alumni have been so successful as they were good students in the first place. Can’t I apply the same argument to MIT? They accept very intelligent students as well and their alumni have been prosperous. If the input for both universities is similar and the output is also roughly similar, then can’t I argue that if all IIT does it give a degree, then MIT also does the same?

Poor quality university? Have you studied at IIT, checked out their courseware or talked to many students who have attended that institution? If not, how can you make a comment that it does not provide a high quality education? Are your assertions based on rankings, in which quality of education is only 1 part of the methodology of calculations?

You could assume that the input between IIT and MIT is the same but is the output the same?

It's true that, to a certain extent, all elitist universities give opportunities to students through the prestige they give them and the social networking options they offer (you'll meet people of power at Harvard, less so at Sargodha University). But, between elite universities, there is still a difference between a university that only gives that and others like MIT that have more (state of the art labs, professors that are at the pinacle of their field, financial aid,...) and others that don't, like IITs. You could argue that I'm wrong but stats speak for themselves.

 

[Sachin136]

You could assume that the input between IIT and MIT is the same but is the output the same?

It's true that, to a certain extent, all elitist universities give opportunities to students through the prestige they give them and the social networking options they offer (you'll meet people of power at Harvard, less so at Sargodha University). But, between elite universities, there is still a difference between a university that only gives that and others like MIT that have more (state of the art labs, professors that are at the pinacle of their field, financial aid,...) and others that don't, like IITs. You could argue that I'm wrong but stats speak for themselves.

I do not assume that the output is the same. The output from MIT is definitely superior. However the difference is not large enough such that you can say IIT only hands their students a degree while MIT offers quality education.

I actually disagree that either of IIT or MIT just awards degree and does not do anything special with regards to the development of their students compared to other universities. Students from high school, no matter how many Olympiad gold medals they have or what their AIR for the JEE is, are very raw. Surely most of the entrants to these selective universities are very intelligent, however it is very easy for them to lose track if they go to a university that does not help them achieve their potential.

There are 2 main ways to judge how much a university can aid their students’ development. One is the quality of education in the institution and secondly the resources it can provide. In terms of resources such as labs and research opportunities a university such as MIT is far superior. However for the more important factor (quality of education), I do not see a substantial difference (of course there is a difference, but largely insignificant).

IIT has a long way to go for the facilities and resources they provide. However just for that shortcoming they can not be termed as a low quality institution.

 

[endymion248]

I do not assume that the output is the same. The output from MIT is definitely superior. However the difference is not large enough such that you can say IIT only hands their students a degree while MIT offers quality education.

I actually disagree that either of IIT or MIT just awards degree and does not do anything special with regards to the development of their students compared to other universities. Students from high school, no matter how many Olympiad gold medals they have or what their AIR for the JEE is, are very raw. Surely most of the entrants to these selective universities are very intelligent, however it is very easy for them to lose track if they go to a university that does not help them achieve their potential.

There are 2 main ways to judge how much a university can aid their students’ development. One is the quality of education in the institution and secondly the resources it can provide. In terms of resources such as labs and research opportunities a university such as MIT is far superior. However for the more important factor (quality of education), I do not see a substantial difference (of course there is a difference, but largely insignificant).

IIT has a long way to go for the facilities and resources they provide. However just for that shortcoming they can not be termed as a low quality institution.

Every university that is hard done by the rankings says that their pedagogy is close to the top. And it's true that some of them are justified. But if we assume that IIT's pedagogy and overall quality is close to MIT, it's just the research that is lacking, then there are hundreds of universities in the world in the same position with better pedagogy than the IITs which come between IITs and MIT, what makes IIT specificially special?

 

[anakin]

^^ [MENTION=139108]Sachin136[/MENTION] and [MENTION=132752]endymion248[/MENTION] : are you comparing IITs and MIT??
They are not even on the same scale of funding and available and our enlightened OP wants to cut all funding for IITs !!

IITs get the best of India.. and MIT gets to pick from the best in the world... The input in student quality is comparable but MIT certainly gets better and add nearly 50 times more funds the output is far superior in terms of innovation and inventions!

 

[CricketCartoons]

It is not the fault of IITs that they have failed in research output. Because they dont get enough funds. And the industry doesnt help them either. The Students are very much interested in research and contribute to the nation, but it is others which are failing them.

Cry me a river.

 

[walsh_ambrose]

compare this with budget for 16 IIT's in 2014 of $390 miilion which works about to be ~$25 million per IIT allocated. Take in the corrupt scoundrels, you are lucky if half that reaches the IIT's.

 

[CricketCartoons]

How much fund is needed for say research in signal processing? All you need is decent computers and some USRPS, but most importantly the interest in research. But poor IITs, we don't get enough money.

 

[Sachin136]

It is not the fault of IITs that they have failed in research output. Because they dont get enough funds. And the industry doesnt help them either. The Students are very much interested in research and contribute to the nation, but it is others which are failing them.

Cry me a river.

Do you even understand how research works? You do not just sit around with a few students interested in research and automatically come up with a publication. You need the adequate facilities and resources which in turn requires proper funding. I am not saying that IIT is not funded well, but it is very little compared to other universities in North America.

 

[Sachin136]

^^ [MENTION=139108]Sachin136[/MENTION] and [MENTION=132752]endymion248[/MENTION] : are you comparing IITs and MIT??
They are not even on the same scale of funding and available and our enlightened OP wants to cut all funding for IITs !!

IITs get the best of India.. and MIT gets to pick from the best in the world... The input in student quality is comparable but MIT certainly gets better and add nearly 50 times more funds the output is far superior in terms of innovation and inventions!

I’m not comparing their quality. [MENTION=132752]endymion248[/MENTION] was saying that IIT hands the students just a degree (and does not contribute to their education in a special way compared to “lesser” universities) so I just argued that by that logic MIT does the same thing.

Of course these two universities can’t be compared for several reasons such as funding, location etc (and some can argue that even if the IITs got adequate funding and were situated in some developed country they still would not be similar to MIT).

 

[CricketCartoons]

Do you even understand how research works? You do not just sit around with a few students interested in research and automatically come up with a publication. You need the adequate facilities and resources which in turn requires proper funding. I am not saying that IIT is not funded well, but it is very little compared to other universities in North America.

So till the IITs dont get funded like MIT, they will not contribute anything? Is their contribution even commensurate with the funding they get? I am not talking about publication which ends up as a pdf file, but innovation that can be used by indians. More than funding, it is the will that is missing, with the averge iitian more interested in serving some foreign company or pursuing american dream. Scumbags!

 

[Sachin136]

So till the IITs dont get funded like MIT, they will not contribute anything? Is their contribution even commensurate with the funding they get? I am not talking about publication which ends up as a pdf file, but innovation that can be used by indians. More than funding, it is the will that is missing, with the averge iitian more interested in serving some foreign company or pursuing american dream. Scumbags!

I am not trying to question your intelligence, but do you mind me asking if you have actually worked in undergraduate or graduate level research? Because the idea that a university produces some “innovation” irrespective of how much funding they get is very naive. In all of the sciences the research builds upon existing knowledge. All of these “innovations” are based off a collaboration of universities on many years of work (which essentially is published as publications, which are actually quite important PDF files). MIT or Harvard does not come up with magical innovations every 2 years. Instead they contribute to existing knowledge which may potentially lead to some major innovation.

I agree that many IIT students are more interested in moving to other Western countries. That is a fault of our developing country which is, in a way, unable to provide fruitful opportunities to there students. You can not blame the university itself for it.

I also agree that IIT is not doing enough to persuade their students to be an academic or pursue research. This is partly the fault of IIT. However again India as a whole is also to blame because for any emerging graduate working in the industry is much more fruitful (monetarily) than being an academic.

Providing job opportunities that rival developed countries, along with the creation of research based academic positions is a goal of both IIT and India. However as with all major goals in a developing country it will take some time to achieve it. However I can safely say that there have been some major improvements in this aspect recently.