"This is ingrained in BJP's ideology that puts Hindus above all other religions" : PM Imran Khan

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"This is ingrained in BJP's ideology that puts Hindus above all other religions" : PM Imran Khan

The joint session of the parliament resumed on Tuesday to discuss the country's future course of action in the wake of India's decision to revoke Article 370 of its constitution, stripping occupied Kashmir of its special status.

Prime Minister Imran Khan, who was absent from the parliament when session began in the morning, also arrived later to deliver a policy statement.

The prime minister, in his address, said that his government's priority was to improve relations with all of Pakistan's neighbours because it was vital to improve the country's economic situation.

"This session is not only important for the Kashmiri people and the Pakistani people, it will have repercussions around the world. That is why I request all to listen carefully," he began.

"When we took up government (of Pakistan), our main priority was to address poverty in our country. We reached out to all our neighbours, because without having a semblance of normalcy in ties, we cannot attain stability and alleviate poverty.

"All my trips to neighbouring countries were meant for this purpose. I visited Afghanistan, and asked them that we work to address our past differences. I talked to India, telling them if you take one step towards us, we will come two step towards you. I went to Iran [with similar aims] and I visited America.

"When I first reached out to India, they expressed concerns that there were militant outfits operating from Pakistan. I told [Narendra] Modi that after the grave and painful tragedy of the Army Public School massacre, all our political parties had resolved to never let the territory of Pakistan be used for terrorist activities. But I got the feeling that the Indian side was not serious about talks. When we went to Bishkek, my suspicions regarding their unwillingness to speak was strengthened."

"I soon realised that India was not interested in talking to us," the premier told the parliament. "They took our overtures for peace as weakness, so we stopped extending offers to hold talks.

"Then Pulwama happened. Thank God our air force responded in the way it did. We shot down their pilot, but returned him immediately to send the message that we did not want war. We resolved that we would not move forward on talks over Kashmir till after the [Indian] elections.

"What happened yesterday has only confirmed my suspicion [about India's unwillingness to talk]. This is not a decision they [the BJP] have taken out of the blue. It was part of their election manifesto all along. It is, in fact, ingrained in their ideology that puts Hindus above all other religions and seeks to establish a state that represses all other religious groups."

"What they did in Kashmir is in accordance with their ideology. They have a racist ideology," he declared. "They have violated their own country's and international laws to [uphold] their ideology.

"I had asked United States President Donald Trump to intervene because our bilateral talks [with India] had failed. This is going to become a big issue now. The people who have kept their resistance alive despite state brutality over the last five years will not stop just because they [the BJP] changed a law. In fact, this is going to get more serious.

"They will now crack down even harder on the Kashmiri people. They will try to suppress the Kashmiri resistance with brute force. I fear that they may initiate ethnic cleansing in Kashmir to wipe out the local population. With an approach of this nature, incidents like Pulwama are bound to happen again. I can already predict this will happen. They will attempt to place the blame on us again. They may strike us again, and we will strike back.

"What will happen then? They will attack us and we will respond and the war can go both ways [...] But if we fight a war till we shed the last drop of our blood, who will win that war? No one will win it and it will have grievous consequences for the entire world. This is not nuclear blackmail.

"We want the global leadership to take note.

"My party and I are taking the responsibility to approach the leaders of the world and apprise them of what is happening in Kashmir. I know the Western world, and I feel like they are not sufficiently aware of what is happening in Kashmir. I will inform them that what the Indian government is doing in Kashmir and what it is doing to Muslims and minorities in India goes against everything the Western world believes in."

'Massive foreign policy failure'

Leader of the Opposition in the National Assembly Shehbaz Sharif called for a decisive response to India's decisions regarding Kashmir.

"There is no doubt that we must maintain good relations with all our neighbours. We fought three wars against India and the results are before everyone to see [...] We want friendly relations but with self respect," he said.

"Is it not our massive failure? That we didn't know what the Indian government was thinking? Yes we are united for the cause of Pakistan but that [unity] should not [come] without self-introspection.

"We have two options: either we hide or we take decisive action. Hiding is not an option, we must take decisive action."

He noted that none of the friendly nations, including China, had stepped up in Pakistan's favour. "Is this not a massive failure of our foreign policy?"

"I believe that what is good for Afghanistan is good for Pakistan and vice versa [...] but we should not exhaust all our resources in trying to establish peace [in Afghanistan] without getting anything in return. We have to ask [the government]: Was President Trump's offer to mediate his trump card or trap card?"

"We will neither let Modi turn [India] into Israel nor allow Kashmir to turn into Palestine [...] India has been given a free hand while we assure the world that we want peace in Kabul. Are we the only ones responsible [to establish peace in Afghanistan]?"

Sharif assured that the opposition will stand with the government on this issue as the "nation needed to show unity, now more than ever".

Prime Minister Imran, in response to Sharif's speech, asked the parliament to advise the government on what to do next.

"What measures have I not taken? Our Foreign Office has held meetings with ambassadors, I have reached out to other countries, we are approaching international forums. What does he [Sharif] suggest I should do, launch an attack on India?"

The premier further asked what Sharif's party had done to address the Kashmir dispute during its time in power. Sharif responded by saying that the prime minister was not being asked to start a war but to pick a strong stance.

'We demand leadership'

PPP chairman Bilawal Bhutto Zardari, in his parliamentary address, demanded that the prime minister of Pakistan rise to the occasion and demonstrate the kind of leadership which "every Pakistani expects from him".

He said that India's excessive deployment in the region, expulsion of pilgrims and tourists, closure of educational institutions and the arrest of politicians who had served as allies to the Indian government has culminated in "a brutal, historical attack. An attack not only on Kashmir but an attack on the UN, an attack on international law, norms and precedents, democracy, rule of law, and inalienable right to self determination".

The PPP chairman went on to say that it was "an attack obviously on the Muslims of Kashmir, but it was also an attack on India, on the idea of India as a secular democratic India where all citizens have the right to be treated equally."

"It is an attack on the India of Nehru and Gandhi, but it is also an attack on the India of Vajpayee," he added.

"The unilateral ursurptions of rights forever guaranteed to Kashmiris, the unilateral, illegal revocation of Article 35-A and 370 demolishes the historical identity of occupied Kashmir.

"It opens the door for Kashmiris to be turned into a minority in their own homes.

"If Kashmir was a flashpoint before, a human rights disaster before, if peace in the region was held hostage to Kashmir before, with one stroke of the pen, Mr Speaker, India has now opened up a pandora's box that has the potential to engulf the entire region in flames and it has also opened the door to a potential nuclear catastrophe.

"We will not accept it, the people of Kashmir will not accept it, the people of India should not accept it and the world should not accept it.

"Modi is playing with fire," he said.

"We demand leadership from this government," he continued.

"The prime minister is asking what he should do. But so far we have not even seen a policy statement. All we have had is a tweet, and this ahistorical speech without any context, without any direction, without any plan, without any strategy.

"Selected or not the prime minister must rise to the occasion. This is what every Pakistani expects from him," said Bilawal.

Opposition protested because govt resolution didn't mention Article 370

After the session's adjournment earlier today, PML-N leader Ahsan Iqbal spoke to reporters outside parliament building and said that the opposition had protested "with a heavy heart" because the resolution presented by the government did not mention the reason due to which the session had been called: the scrapping of Article 370.

"All international laws recognise the border that separates Indian-occupied Kashmir and Azad Jammu and Kashmir as Line of Control. India tried to convert Line of Control into an international border, which is not a trivial matter.

"India took such a major step and the resolution does not even mention it; this is why opposition protested today," the PML-N leader said. He added that Prime Minister Imran Khan was not in attendance even though the opposition had chosen to forgo the matter of non-issuance of production orders [for arrested MNAs] to show unity and discuss the Kashmir issue.

He further said the the foreign minister, who is currently out of the country, should have returned by a chartered plane to brief the parliament on the situation even if it was for a day.

Special Assistant to the Prime Minister (SAPM) on Information Firdous Ashiq Awan also addressed opposition's protest in a conversation with media outside Parliament House and said: "We respect the opposition's wishes and will make the additions they are calling for because no controversy should be created on a resolution supporting the rights of Kashmiris."

"Kashmiris are looking towards Pakistan in this time of dire need," she added. "We would like them to know that they are not alone; Pakistan will continue its diplomatic support for their cause and raise the matter on all relevant forums.

"We are looking to raise the matter in the United Nations and ask the forum to look into India's violation of their conventions."

Minister for Science and Technology Fawad Chaudhry called upon the political leadership to "stop fighting on trivial issues" and focus on the situation at hand.

"Modi government is trying to make Kashmir another Palestine by changing the population demography and bringing settlers into Kashmir. Parliamentarians must stop fighting on trivial issues; lets respond [to] India by blood, tears, toil and sweat, we must be ready to fight if war is imposed," he said in a tweet.

'Kashmir was and will remain disputed'

Before the joint session resumed, Sharif met Azad Jammu and Kashmir (AJK) Prime Minister Raja Farooq Haider in his chamber and said that Pakistan will continue to stand alongside Kashmiris.

"No matter what India does, Kashmir was and will remain disputed [territory]," Sharif said. He also expressed concern over the health of Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF) Chairman Yasin Malik.

Haider briefed Sharif about the situation in AJK and said that the Indian forces had been targeting civilians by using cluster bombs from across LoC.

"If [Indian Prime Minister Narendra] Modi thinks Kashmiris will give up their right to self-determination, he is mistaken," Haider said.

Parliament joint session

The joint session of upper and lower houses was summoned by President Arif Alvi yesterday to decide Pakistan's future course of action in the wake of India's decision to strip occupied Kashmir of its special status under Article 370. But the session was disrupted soon after beginning by protest from opposition lawmakers who pointed out that the resolution, moved by Federal Minister for Parliamentary Affairs Azam Khan Swati condemning India's "illegal actions" in occupied Kashmir, did not specifically mention Article 370 of the Indian constitution.

Human Rights Minister Shireen Mazari, Science and Technology Minister Fawad Chaudhry, Railways Minister Sheikh Rasheed, Leader of the Opposition in the National Assembly Sharif, PML-N leaders Khawaja Asif and Ayaz Sadiq among other MNAs as well as senators were in attendance. AJK premier was also attending today's session.

Opposition parties had demanded that a joint session be convened soon after media broke the news of India's decision to repeal Article 370. PPP Chairperson Bilawal Bhutto-Zardari was the first opposition leader who had called for immediately summoning the joint session of parliament. He then flew to Islamabad from Karachi to participate in the joint session.

“This House may discuss the recent surge in unprovoked firing and shelling on civilian population and use of cluster bombs by Indian forces in Azad Jammu and Kashmir; deployment of additional troops and atrocities in Indian-occupied Jammu and Kashmir and recent developments,” said the agenda issued yesterday by the National Assembly Secretariat for the joint sitting.

Meanwhile, a Corps Commander meeting under the chairmanship of Army Chief Gen Qamar Javed Bajwa was held in Rawalpindi to discuss the deteriorating situation in occupied Kashmir and the Indian aggression along the Line of Control.

India's presidential order

Yesterday, India's ruling BJP stripped Kashmiris of the special autonomy they had for seven decades through a rushed presidential order. An indefinite curfew — that has entered its second day — was imposed in occupied Kashmir and elected leaders were put under house arrest.

By repealing Article 370 of the constitution, people from the rest of India will now have the right to acquire property in IoK and settle there permanently. Kashmiris as well as critics of India’s Hindu nationalist-led government see the move as an attempt to dilute the demographics of Muslim-majority Kashmir with Hindu settlers.

Furthermore, Indian Home Minister Amit Shah, who is also president of the BJP, moved a bill to bifurcate the state into two union territories — one, Jammu and Kashmir, which will have a legislature, and the other, Ladakh — to be directly ruled by New Delhi.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1498411/w...in-na-address-on-indian-atrocities-in-kashmir
 
Imran’s narrative is pretty good but this time I hope he falls short and this article is abolished.
 
That's actually pretty rich coming from the PM of a country where religious minorities are on the verge of extinction. C'mon man, nobody is denying that India has its fair share of bigots, but how can IK make those statements with a straight face while his own country has a terrible record when it comes to human rights of minorities. LOL.
 
What is Imran doing about Muslims in China, does he he ave any sympathy towards them.Is he doing anything about it.
 
Amazing speech and wonderfully explained the ideology of the Hindutva and how much of a visionary the great Quaid was to foresee this coming 70 years ago.


 
It was a great speech.

Shows how mature Imran Khan is unlike his Indian counterpart.
 
What is Imran doing about Muslims in China, does he he ave any sympathy towards them.Is he doing anything about it.

Its not about principle , its about narrative and the foreign policy which is ok, even Kashmiri posters don’t question conditions of Chinese Muslims.

As individuals we shouldn’t be so gullible as to what politicians care about, competency in their job matters.
 
I had huge respect for Imran Khan as a leader but the other guy (one wearing a black blazer, I guess he was leader of opposition) totally owned him today in the parliament. Imran had no answer to his questions, in the end Imran literally ran away.
Expected him come hard, but all he did was to give history lecture. Very week.
 
Its not about principle , its about narrative and the foreign policy which is ok, even Kashmiri posters don’t question conditions of Chinese Muslims.

As individuals we shouldn’t be so gullible as to what politicians care about, competency in their job matters.

Imran has zero knowledge on history.He needs to understand Kashmir first.
 
I had huge respect for Imran Khan as a leader but the other guy (one wearing a black blazer, I guess he was leader of opposition) totally owned him today in the parliament. Imran had no answer to his questions, in the end Imran literally ran away.
Expected him come hard, but all he did was to give history lecture. Very week.

Obsession ki inteha dekho they are even watching our parliament sessions :)))


[MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION]
 
Didn't you say BJP govt is better for Kashmir before elections?

Why are you whining about them now?

Got owned twice in a week (Trump).

Ab bhugto.
 
Imran has zero knowledge on history.He needs to understand Kashmir first.

He has zero knowledge of history and geography.

Nonetheless, his rambling in the parliament is of no significance. He has been humiliated by the official statements of USA and UAE. So much for Trump meditating after our dhol trip.

This is a massive reality-check for Pakistan.
 
What is Imran doing about Muslims in China, does he he ave any sympathy towards them.Is he doing anything about it.

Muslims in China are not part of a land claimed by Pakistan and have no historical or cultural link to Pakistan.

Clearly processing things is hard for you
 
Obsession ki inteha dekho they are even watching our parliament sessions :)))


[MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION]

Lol I’ve legit never watched a single minute of indian parliament haha
 
I don’t think he is wrong about what he says. Mein kampf seems to be a perpetual best seller in india
 
Muslims in China are not part of a land claimed by Pakistan and have no historical or cultural link to Pakistan.

Clearly processing things is hard for you

Muslims in China are not Muslim brothers for you but Muslims in Kashmir are brothers.I clearly process things but failing to understand what is it Pakistan is all about.
 
Muslims in China are not Muslim brothers for you but Muslims in Kashmir are brothers.I clearly process things but failing to understand what is it Pakistan is all about.

Stop worry about how Pakistan respond to Muslims plight in China.

And the better question should be, "You as an Indian is and will support mas murder of minorities in Kashmir".

Does it make you any better than Pakistani who does not speak for China Muslims, I do not think so, rather worse.
 
Muslims in China are not Muslim brothers for you but Muslims in Kashmir are brothers.I clearly process things but failing to understand what is it Pakistan is all about.

Yes because Muslims in Kashmir were part of the same country and heck they want to be with Pakistan. Not the case with China.

Are you still not getting it lol. Maybe the RSS camps with the brown chuddies need to go ya on critical thinking skills
 
Didn't you say BJP govt is better for Kashmir before elections?

Why are you whining about them now?

Got owned twice in a week (Trump).

Ab bhugto.

I don't think he said BJP is 'better'.

"Perhaps if the BJP - a right-wing party - wins, some kind of settlement in Kashmir could be reached," he said, while suggesting other parties may fear a backlash from the right over any negotiations.

Implying that BJP will have a big mandate and COULD take some tough decisions on Kashmir if they had the will to do so.
 
I don't think he said BJP is 'better'.



Implying that BJP will have a big mandate and COULD take some tough decisions on Kashmir if they had the will to do so.

He meant BJP could take tough decisions being right-wing and thats exactly what they did.

Just in the opposite direction. Lol.

Now no point whining about BJP.
 
I don't think he said BJP is 'better'.



Implying that BJP will have a big mandate and COULD take some tough decisions on Kashmir if they had the will to do so.

Sensible bhai, apparently suffered from Mamoon 9,000 syndrome for a minute.

It is a forgivable and forgettable offence, it happens.
 
No point getting frustrated at me.

Imran acted dumb.

Results are there in front.

For me to act frustrated I'd have to believer your comprehension of IK words by twisting the words spoken by IK and read them with preconceived bias from you.

His words were in simple and elementary English.

It seems, you got upset, after I pointed out your inability to understand simple and elementary English.
 
For me to act frustrated I'd have to twist the words spoken by IK and read them with preconceived bias.

His words were in simple and elementary English.

It seems, you got upset, after I pointed out your inability to understand simple and elementary English.

Lol.

I responded to the post just above yours.

Scroll up and read.

I know what Imran meant.

It went in opposite direction and now he is left with the current statements.

Keyword in his statement was 'backlash from the right' .

Go and read it again.
 
It's a good speech but he is helpless. These are unprecedented circumstances for a first term PM who is desperately trying to prove he's his own man and not an army puppet. He knows he can't wage a war but Pak can't sit tight either.
 
Lol.

I responded to the post just above yours.

Scroll up and read.

I know what Imran meant.

It went in opposite direction and now he is left with the current statements.

Keyword in his statement was 'backlash from the right' .

Go and read it again.

calling out BJP, Hindutva and you supporting Hinduta? why wouldn't any respected person would do that unless you support the plight of Kashmiri just because they are Muslims.

And what Ik said initially should be appreciated, he had hope for better and peaceful region.

And if you do not see that as racist and extremists then what is there to discuss anymore? You do not see people discussing with Nazi, they just call them out for what they are.
 
calling out BJP, Hindutva and you supporting Hinduta? why wouldn't any respected person would do that unless you support the plight of Kashmiri just because they are Muslims.

And what Ik said initially should be appreciated, he had hope for better and peaceful region.

And if you do not see that as racist and extremists then what is there to discuss anymore? You do not see people discussing with Nazi, they just call them out for what they are.

Context matters.

Without context, even God can be made a villain.

Try to see posts in the context they were made rather than in vaccuum.

Your rant is off target.
 
Context matters.

Without context, even God can be made a villain.

Try to see posts in the context they were made rather than in vaccuum.

Your rant is off target.

Start practicing what you are trying to preach and failed attempt to ridicule.

Context, before a radicalized extremists nationalists PM got elected, below is the quote.

"Perhaps if the BJP - a right-wing party - wins, some kind of settlement in Kashmir could be reached," he said, while suggesting other parties may fear a backlash from the right over any negotiations.

Today's speech after a radicalized extremists nationalist government decided to pass a law that would displace local living, re-populate with majority Hindus from main land.

Rest isn't rant, those are the fact, displace and re-populate, perhaps, mass murder, too.
 
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Start practicing what you are trying to preach and failed attempt to ridicule.

Context, before a radicalized extremists nationalists PM got elected, below is the quote.



Today's speech after a radicalized extremists nationalist government decided to pass a law that would displace local living, re-populate with majority Hindus from main land.

Rest isn't rant, those are the fact, displace and re-populate, perhaps, mass murder, too.

Oh dear. Never mind.

You hav no clue what i stand for.

And you hav no clue why i mocked Imran the so called contrarian.
 
No.

:)))

My point exactly.

Start reading up and develop your comprehension skills.

Why not support it though? Apparently BVR Subrahmanyam was involved in execution(can’t confirm as source is right wing).

Im all for abolishing this article.
 
Damn, never seen IK so mad since he got elected. Hopefully both nations will do the sensible thing and not escalate things further. One can only pray.
 
Didn't you say BJP govt is better for Kashmir before elections?

Why are you whining about them now?

Got owned twice in a week (Trump).

Ab bhugto.

He meant that Modi was the only one who would dare hold bilateral talks with Pakistan on Kashmir since the rest of the parties are w*mps. I honestly don't think he expected Modi to scrap article 370. We can expect a very different approach to India now. As IK also said, i think Pakistan has given up on bilateral talks with India after this.

Only two options remain:

- Try to internationalize the Kashmir issue (which we won't be able to do unless Indo-Pak relations become much worse).

- Or a full fledged war.

Let's hope that sense prevails.
 
Amazing speech and wonderfully explained the ideology of the Hindutva and how much of a visionary the great Quaid was to foresee this coming 70 years ago.



You can see the admiration of Imran Khan's speech from Pervez Khattak, yet [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] has the nerve to bash the latter who in my eyes is one of Pakistan's greatest politicians of all time. What he has done for the KPK region is nothing short of admirable.
 
Pakistanis should be proud they have an honest and brave leader who wants peace for all people in the region and the wider world.

India the so called largest democracy has re-elected a fascist former RSS member who since his childhood has been thirsty for the blood of Muslims.

Imran Khan is spot on, Hindutva is a supermacist fascist ideoeolgy. Mein Kampf is a best seller in India and probably Modis most read book after mens health. History for such extremists is very painful after being slapped by Muslim conquerers for hundreds of years, so now they feel they can gain some sort of revenge.

Imran is also right to say further violence is ahead. Indians who support Modi are very very stupid people not understanding this man and his brethren dont care about the future of India but their own warped view of the world . A country which is trying to improve is only shooting itself in the foot as it did by trying to attack Pakistan but this time it will be lengthy and much more hurtful to their nation.
 
I am usually a big fan of Imran but have to respectfully disagree with him here.

My own opinion is that the BJP would consider western Christians superior to all other religions and that is reflected in the achievements of the west. I read a superb article by a British Indian where he actually said Britain was his god in honour of all that it had given him. I shall try to dig it out.
 
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Why not support it though? Apparently BVR Subrahmanyam was involved in execution(can’t confirm as source is right wing).

Im all for abolishing this article.

I am against the means.

Not against abolishing it. I know what damage it has done to Kashmiris as my father had to deal with Kashmiri politicians who were corrupt to the core.

With that being said, trickery and deceit is not the way to go. Not in matters like these. That too when there is no compulsion on our part to act this way.

Ask a man to give you Rs 1,000 for a cause and he might.

Steal just Rs 100 from him and he might chase after you like his life depended on it.

In one stroke, BJP has killed whatever little trust or hope Kashmiris had in us.

The gloves are off.

A move like this could have far reaching ramifications.

Plus look at the precedence this sets.
 
He meant that Modi was the only one who would dare hold bilateral talks with Pakistan on Kashmir since the rest of the parties are w*mps. I honestly don't think he expected Modi to scrap article 370. We can expect a very different approach to India now. As IK also said, i think Pakistan has given up on bilateral talks with India after this.

Only two options remain:

- Try to internationalize the Kashmir issue (which we won't be able to do unless Indo-Pak relations become much worse).

- Or a full fledged war.

Let's hope that sense prevails.

I know what he meant bhai.

Check my posts above.
 
I am against the means.

Not against abolishing it. I know what damage it has done to Kashmiris as my father had to deal with Kashmiri politicians who were corrupt to the core.

With that being said, trickery and deceit is not the way to go. Not in matters like these. That too when there is no compulsion on our part to act this way.

Ask a man to give you Rs 1,000 for a cause and he might.

Steal just Rs 100 from him and he might chase after you like his life depended on it.

In one stroke, BJP has killed whatever little trust or hope Kashmiris had in us.

The gloves are off.

A move like this could have far reaching ramifications.

Plus look at the precedence this sets.

Well Nehru thought the same and look where that took us , he did so the same in GOA though when he saw what China did to us in 1962 and rectified his approach to such matters, at that time there was a lot of hue and cry internationally.

Look at the speech of Ladakh's MP , and issues they have to go with Kashmiri politicians with districts and Unis.

Also don’t think the attitude of Kashmiris would change, coz idea of it is ingrained and on BJP someday they would get a taste of it and they are on opposite side.
 
Damn, never seen IK so mad since he got elected. Hopefully both nations will do the sensible thing and not escalate things further. One can only pray.
Nothing will happen. It is in Pakistan's interest to sit tight and not do anything provocative, with the FATF breathing down our necks. The timing of this from BJP couldn't be any better.

Unless Kashmiris have a dramatic uprising, and India ends up blaming Pakistan for all the ills of that, our hands are tied.
 
Well Nehru thought the same and look where that took us , he did so the same in GOA though when he saw what China did to us in 1962 and rectified his approach to such matters, at that time there was a lot of hue and cry internationally.

Look at the speech of Ladakh's MP , and issues they have to go with Kashmiri politicians with districts and Unis.

Also don’t think the attitude of Kashmiris would change, coz idea of it is ingrained and on BJP someday they would get a taste of it and they are on opposite side.

You don't need to win everyone over.

As long as you get things done in process, everything eventually settles in.

Right now, you have created a sense of deep betrayal among Kashmiris.

Put yourself in their shoes bhai.

1. Pak army does jaldbaazi and screws up the process.

2. Hari Singh signs instrument of accession.

3. UN resolution stays in limbo.

4. Corrupt leaders (both mainstream and separatists)

5. And then India pulls a move like this to abolish the Article.

India and Pak keep fighting about Kashmir...but truth is that Kashmiris have been given the raw end of the deal from Day 1. Yes the Pandit saga happened but it's not like everyone chased them away.

And now with a move like this, this will create a deep sense of resentment & hatred amongst them.

Is it worth it?

Time will tell.

If BJP manages to turn Kashmir into a paradise, sure this would be a huge success. A huge task considering how brilliant they have been in developing the Indian economy. :p

But it could go down the other way too. And that would lead to complete chaos.

----

Plus....personally for me....this is Adharma.

I can't support this move.

And pardon me for being a bit too OTT...but if Lord Rama was here, he wouldn't have pulled this move.

Deep down we all know it.
 
You don't need to win everyone over.

As long as you get things done in process, everything eventually settles in.

Right now, you have created a sense of deep betrayal among Kashmiris.

Put yourself in their shoes bhai.

1. Pak army does jaldbaazi and screws up the process.

2. Hari Singh signs instrument of accession.

3. UN resolution stays in limbo.

4. Corrupt leaders (both mainstream and separatists)

5. And then India pulls a move like this to abolish the Article.

India and Pak keep fighting about Kashmir...but truth is that Kashmiris have been given the raw end of the deal from Day 1. Yes the Pandit saga happened but it's not like everyone chased them away.

And now with a move like this, this will create a deep sense of resentment & hatred amongst them.

Is it worth it?

Time will tell.

If BJP manages to turn Kashmir into a paradise, sure this would be a huge success. A huge task considering how brilliant they have been in developing the Indian economy. :p

But it could go down the other way too. And that would lead to complete chaos.

----

Plus....personally for me....this is Adharma.

I can't support this move.

And pardon me for being a bit too OTT...but if Lord Rama was here, he wouldn't have pulled this move.

Deep down we all know it.

You would instead support the existing status quo where Kashmiris stay in limbo forever? Atleast there is a chance of peace here. Don't forget that there have been many debates for seven decades with zero resolutions.
 
You don't need to win everyone over.

As long as you get things done in process, everything eventually settles in.

Right now, you have created a sense of deep betrayal among Kashmiris.

Put yourself in their shoes bhai.

1. Pak army does jaldbaazi and screws up the process.

2. Hari Singh signs instrument of accession.

3. UN resolution stays in limbo.

4. Corrupt leaders (both mainstream and separatists)

5. And then India pulls a move like this to abolish the Article.

India and Pak keep fighting about Kashmir...but truth is that Kashmiris have been given the raw end of the deal from Day 1. Yes the Pandit saga happened but it's not like everyone chased them away.

And now with a move like this, this will create a deep sense of resentment & hatred amongst them.

Is it worth it?

Time will tell.

If BJP manages to turn Kashmir into a paradise, sure this would be a huge success. A huge task considering how brilliant they have been in developing the Indian economy. :p

But it could go down the other way too. And that would lead to complete chaos.

----

Plus....personally for me....this is Adharma.

I can't support this move.

And pardon me for being a bit too OTT...but if Lord Rama was here, he wouldn't have pulled this move.

Deep down we all know it.

But Krishna would had in that religious logic.

I guess i see your point on the means of it , I don’t mind on ways this has been done because anytime else in history this wasn’t possible except now, plus personally Im happy Ladakh is out of Kashmir.
 
Very very weak response.Changing of the guard is imminent.August.
It was based on facts. If any Palwama type incidents happen again you will see this Indian govt pointing fingers at Pakistanis despite taking Kashmiris basic right. Also he clearly said Pakistan will not go defensive if Indian play any adventures. Any kind of war will lead to use of nuclear weapons. That was pretty massive statement.
 
But Krishna would had in that religious logic.

I guess i see your point on the means of it , I don’t mind on ways this has been done because anytime else in history this wasn’t possible except now, plus personally Im happy Ladakh is out of Kashmir.

I knew the Krishna reference would come up.

Glad that you brought that in.

Krishna said that to vanquish Adharma, you can take part in it.

That doesn't mean you can do anything.

Krishna played a trick to kill Dronocharya and Karna in the battlefield.

But he didn't go and kill them in their sleep like Ashwathama.

Guess what was the fate for Ashwathama who burned the huts and killed people while they were sleeping.

Krishna HIMSELF cursed him that he will roam in the forests with blood and puss oozing out of his injuries and cry for death for 3000 years. Since he had no fear of death during war, death would not meet him.

---

Yeah Ladakh is good news I believe (dunno the history) but they didn't have anything to do with kashmiris right?
 
You would instead support the existing status quo where Kashmiris stay in limbo forever? Atleast there is a chance of peace here. Don't forget that there have been many debates for seven decades with zero resolutions.

Yes. India officially had the stance that they were happy with status quo for years.

Let's not now present it as India did it as a favour for kashmiris cos they couldn't bear to see their plight (not that you are doing it).

With this move, there is a chance of peace yes.

There is a chance of things going horribly wrong too.

Humans are flawed creatures.

You tap into their sense of betrayal and you can't say how it will play out.
 
I knew the Krishna reference would come up.

Glad that you brought that in.

Krishna said that to vanquish Adharma, you can take part in it.

That doesn't mean you can do anything.

Krishna played a trick to kill Dronocharya and Karna in the battlefield.

But he didn't go and kill them in their sleep like Ashwathama.

Guess what was the fate for Ashwathama who burned the huts and killed people while they were sleeping.

Krishna HIMSELF cursed him that he will roam in the forests with blood and puss oozing out of his injuries and cry for death for 3000 years. Since he had no fear of death during war, death would not meet him.

---

Yeah Ladakh is good news I believe (dunno the history) but they didn't have anything to do with kashmiris right?

I’m not very religious but I won’t equate Ashwathama but more like trick on battlefield vanquishing aDharma but again , Im not religious enough to have say in this as I don’t equate religion to country.

No Ladakh doesn’t, dont think Kashmiris care about losing Ladakh either, only corrupt Kashmiri politicians would hate this.
 
I’m not very religious but I won’t equate Ashwathama but more like trick on battlefield vanquishing aDharma but again , Im not religious enough to have say in this as I don’t equate religion to country.

No Ladakh doesn’t, dont think Kashmiris care about losing Ladakh either, only corrupt Kashmiri politicians would hate this.

Yeah true...it's not practical anyway.

I agree.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Mehbooba Mufti ji's daughter Sana Mufti sent me this voice note.<br>Sharing it with all of you. <a href="https://t.co/0W5bhBk2Dw">pic.twitter.com/0W5bhBk2Dw</a></p>— Zainab Sikander (@zainabsikander) <a href="https://twitter.com/zainabsikander/status/1158645094976651265?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 6, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
"The prime minister is asking what he should do. But so far we have not even seen a policy statement. All we have had is a tweet, and this ahistorical speech without any context, without any direction, without any plan, without any strategy.

"Selected or not the prime minister must rise to the occasion. This is what every Pakistani expects from him," said Bilawal.

well said by bilawal
 
Yes. India officially had the stance that they were happy with status quo for years.

Let's not now present it as India did it as a favour for kashmiris cos they couldn't bear to see their plight (not that you are doing it).

With this move, there is a chance of peace yes.

There is a chance of things going horribly wrong too.

Humans are flawed creatures.

You tap into their sense of betrayal and you can't say how it will play out.

The biggest obstacle to peace is the security situation. Have you forgotten the days when a bit mohalla terrorists would issue dictats about hoisting Indian flags or voting in elections? The state police were nincompoops for decades because their hand were tied by their state leaders. That's the reason India had to resort to army to control the law and order situation. As in any country the army is typically ruthless who know and are trained in only one way of dealing with people. That's going to end now. State police will be controlled by Shah and hopefully army will slowly withdrawn from everyday life. Being stifled by army is a major concern for Kashmiris and this is the only way army can be withdrawn. The new law regarding terror individuals recently mean that sedition laws will be applied stringently and the stone pelters, flag burners will be booked for sedition. Anybody that fights the police or found harboring the 2 bit terrorists will be booked for sedition. Once the law and order is passed to state police, things should ease.
 
You don't need to win everyone over.

As long as you get things done in process, everything eventually settles in.

Right now, you have created a sense of deep betrayal among Kashmiris.

Put yourself in their shoes bhai.

1. Pak army does jaldbaazi and screws up the process.

2. Hari Singh signs instrument of accession.

3. UN resolution stays in limbo.

4. Corrupt leaders (both mainstream and separatists)

5. And then India pulls a move like this to abolish the Article.

India and Pak keep fighting about Kashmir...but truth is that Kashmiris have been given the raw end of the deal from Day 1. Yes the Pandit saga happened but it's not like everyone chased them away.

And now with a move like this, this will create a deep sense of resentment & hatred amongst them.

Is it worth it?

Time will tell.

If BJP manages to turn Kashmir into a paradise, sure this would be a huge success. A huge task considering how brilliant they have been in developing the Indian economy. :p

But it could go down the other way too. And that would lead to complete chaos.

----

Plus....personally for me....this is Adharma.

I can't support this move.

And pardon me for being a bit too OTT...but if Lord Rama was here, he wouldn't have pulled this move.

Deep down we all know it.

You are the first sensible Indian I have seen here? How do you have so much understanding of Kashmir issue and sentiments of Kashmir?
 
The sensible thing to do would be to do nothing at all.
 
What can you say when the Prime Minister himself is brain washed and deluded. Racist supremacy and what not. India is a one of the most diverse and inclusive country in the world! While RSS , VHP, Sangh are opinionated, calling them supremacist is far fetched.

The one allegation that would be true is that there is discrimination to a good extend when it comes to color and sex. With regards to religion, people are generally tolerant and respectful. It just cant exist without that.
 
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What a leader Imran Khan is for Pakistan. He is just the right guy we needed at this time.
 
I didn't know Imran is so clueless. Wow! He , who belongs to Pakistan, is talking about keeping one's religion above others'.
 
I am against the means.

Not against abolishing it. I know what damage it has done to Kashmiris as my father had to deal with Kashmiri politicians who were corrupt to the core.

With that being said, trickery and deceit is not the way to go. Not in matters like these. That too when there is no compulsion on our part to act this way.

Ask a man to give you Rs 1,000 for a cause and he might.

Steal just Rs 100 from him and he might chase after you like his life depended on it.

In one stroke, BJP has killed whatever little trust or hope Kashmiris had in us.

The gloves are off.

A move like this could have far reaching ramifications.

Plus look at the precedence this sets.
Agree with this. Well said.

However, knowing the Gujarati duo, you and I know very well why was this decision taken in such a hurry?

I got to know that US was taken into confidence in February itself regarding this move but not any other political party from India.
 
The sensible thing to do would be to do nothing at all.
Well said. In current scenario, with probably no international voice speaking against this move simply reaffirms that no one else is bothered about Kashmir.
 
Lol ....Pakistanis should be the last people to talk about religious equality,secularism,treating all people equally etc etc...LMAO
 
Lol ....Pakistanis should be the last people to talk about religious equality,secularism,treating all people equally etc etc...LMAO

All nations have equal responsibilities. India's history of treatment of minorities is nothing to be proud of also.
 
All nations have equal responsibilities. India's history of treatment of minorities is nothing to be proud of also.
I am definitely not saying that India is saint...but what people debating here in the name of equality ,secularism will make all laughing stock
 
Go home Khan. There will be no more terror sponsoring with in Kashmir now. It's over.
 
He is talking about the Hindutva admirers of Hitler not the common Hindu. IK is totally correct in saying that Chanakya's philosophy of lies is what the BJP follow. It is a fact that Nathuram Godse who killed Gandhi was an admirer of Hitler as to are the BJP and RSS today. Overall I am very unimpressed with IK's coward like response, instead of telling us military preparedness he lectures people on Islamic history.
 
Go home Khan. There will be no more terror sponsoring with in Kashmir now. It's over.

It is not even started yet! If you think the removal of some article in ink changes things then you no nothing! India will be sorry for what they have just done. Now that the India says the border means nothing we are back to 1947. Terrorism or freedom fighters is going to intensity even more hence the curfew. Just see the rage when the curfew is over with China getting involved as well.
 
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"This is ingrained in BJP's ideology that puts Hindus above all other religions" : PM Imran Khan

Listening to the proceedings live from the parliament today on Geo News.

"Aqwaam-e-Mutahida ki karaardaad ke mutaabiq Hindustan eik mutnaazah ilaaqa hai" - son of Fazl-ur-Rehman.

What a tongue slip, haha!
 
Listening to the proceedings live from the parliament today on Geo News.

"Aqwaam-e-Mutahida ki karaardaad ke mutaabiq Hindustan eik mutnaazah ilaaqa hai" - son of Fazl-ur-Rehman.

What a tongue slip, haha!

Please translate. :)
 
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