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This is unacceptable and we must show solidarity with Pakistan Cricket

MMHS

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This is not cricket at all, this is racism in it's new form. My wholehearted support for PAK cricket and people - there has to be an end of this farce. All that was achieved in 12 years had been blown away in 12 hours and I must say - it was well planed, and well executed as well. And, it's unfortunate that in these difficult times, there are people who are trying to earn their two minutes glory - guys we have differences, we have egos, we have emotions and we have memories ... but above all we are cricket fans and we are human - let's be with the suffering team, the fans, the board and the nation. May be we can't change the plot or proceedings, but that shouldn't get better of our good judgment, neither should it stop us from calling a spade is a spade.

New Zeeland is a small fly in this plot, but what ECB did today was ultimate punch below the belt. They cancelled a tour for less than 48 hours for two useless games, which are not even proper cricket, in a place where their Royals visited and funny enough played cricket just about a year back, but in the process they have buried everything that PCB earned over last 12 years. On top of that, I read they proposed an alternative venue, as if the purpose was to showcase the T20 skills and people of Pakistan were hankering for it. We can try to justify the call, but deep inside everyone knows, it was a back-stab, done deliberately to make things worse. I have read many theories in this regard and I know that SRL team was shot on PAK soil - but that was 12 years back, the situation was different, so were the scales.... we can't hang a dead body time and again for one crime and go in circles. Life has to go on - it didn't stop after Christchurch shooting or London bombing, why it has to be different every time for PAK?

PAK is paying for the guts shown by it’s PM – like or dislike, Taliban is an entity and it’s PAK who has to live with her rowdy neighbors at west. PAK PM can’t swallow the pill imposed upon him without chewing to know how it would taste just to please the vaunted ego of the losers. I can refer one story from my dad – long back, Begum Zia was asked by an infamous agency to start a limited war against Myanmar, basically a shadow war keeping Bangladesh as screen – the exchange was quite sweet for her as well, eventually which would have led to an Air Base at Sandwip. She didn’t agree on three grounds – Bangladesh won’t be air lifted, it’ll stay there after the “friends” invariably leave, BD wasn’t prepare for a mass scale long term war and most importantly infuriate China. She paid dearly and still paying with interest ……

Coming back to cricket – I beg to disagree with [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION]. No boss, no effort for PCB or PAK Govt. will change the situation because the issue here is not security measures, neither PAK’s image or capability. PCB/PAK Govt. have done more than enough to satisfy the question mark, to a level that I am not sure at macro level if it’s financially profitable for PAK to host cricket at home or not – PCB might make money, but somewhere, someone has to count bills for this insane preparation. I don’t think Western cricketers are bigger targets than their diplomats living and roaming around PAK, neither players playing for National colors make them more lucrative target than in PSL colors. Let’s at least once try to agree that what was done is not right, we can justify the act every other day. In a small cricket family, one member is being pushed to the edge of the cliff inch by inch and we are trying to find out how the corpse can be collected from the valley!!!

Stay strong Pakistan and stay focused – at least now the position is better, the smoke screen is cleared. I don’t think direct retaliation (end cricket ties) helps PAK cricket, neither shifting home venue; but at the same time Cricket has to be played. Closing down the shop will close down the supply chain as well. What I see as the next most important task is to bring teams at home – whoever is willing and in exchange of counter tours (not money – bribe isn’t sustainable), to establish the credibility that cricket can be played in PAK. For “those” home series, only option I see is alter the schedule, that’s instead of AUS/ENG…. touring PAK, for the time being try to swap the home tours away and get the next tour planned for home – that will buy some time, better if in revenue sharing model. And, may be try to arrange tri/quadruple nation tournaments in 3rd country as hosts (Like PAK-BD-AFG-SRL in BD/SRL) – that will keep the money inflow and the hosting rights as well. Going back to UAE or any other country for home series is basically a compromise, that will set a wrong precedence.

Once again, my heartiest support for the fans and the players – one day it’ll be over and I hope it’s sooner than the plot.
 
What a post to make a comeback with. Thank you so much.

I read BD was ready to play in PAK still but logistically wasn't possible. Thanks to Bangladeshi brothers.
 
Top post. I hope we do look for more tri-series involving teams who do want to visit. It was a very well planned back stab. Not surprising at all.
 
Thanks for this. And I appreciate the counter point to the lecturing Pakistan gets around Taliban. Like you said, it's easy for these people to say all that because they don't have to live right next to them. Making another enemy right next door is a far worse alternative.
 
Cheers [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] - good man!

What a fantastic post. This is something that i wish Ramiz Raja reads. We got to stay strong and stay put. Its a long road ahead, but we cannot give up!
 
MMHS? Wow, i must be dreaming.

Welcome back to PP
 
What a post to make a comeback with. Thank you so much.

I read BD was ready to play in PAK still but logistically wasn't possible. Thanks to Bangladeshi brothers.

BD were ready to send B team but Ramiz refused it. Said same in his video.
 
I hope our Indian neighbours can put their differences and rivalry with Pakistan behind and show solidarity with us for a change. The PCB really needed the BCCI during these times
 
We have had our disagreements and debates on different issues as thats what forums are all about but this is pretty well put. Thanks for the support and welcome back.
 
I hope our Indian neighbours can put their differences and rivalry with Pakistan behind and show solidarity with us for a change. The PCB really needed the BCCI during these times

I must say, that is like expecting pigs to fly. BCCI is a bigger issue than these 3 boards.
 
BD were ready to send B team but Ramiz refused it. Said same in his video.

They must have already scheduled preparations for the world T20 qualifiers so you cant expect them to send their main team. Sending any team means they are supporting Pak cricket just like they did during the revival as well.
 
I hope our Indian neighbours can put their differences and rivalry with Pakistan behind and show solidarity with us for a change. The PCB really needed the BCCI during these times

How can we expect Indians to show solidarity when some of our own Pakistani ind-chamchey
don’t.

Great OP btw
 
KARACHI: Sri Lanka Cricket (SLC)’s secretary Mohan De Silva said they are ready to replace New Zealand if the Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB) invites them.

In a statement to Sri Lankan media, Silva said he is equally disappointed after hearing about New Zealand Cricket (NZC)’s decision to cancel Pakistan’s tour on the 11th hour.

“As you all know PCB is a great friend of SLC and I am personally disappointed about the cancellation. I am very proud to say I went to Pakistan before sending our team in 2019 to observe the strength of their security. It was unbelievable the protection they offer – they have all the latest security systems in place. You have hundreds of cameras all set and a person can’t even move without being noticed. So, I have full confidence in Pakistan’s security,” he was quoted saying.

“So, if the PCB invites us, this is something we would seriously consider,” he added.

It must be noted here that PCB’s CEO Wasim Khan had already said that hosting either Sri Lanka or any other team after New Zealand departed, wasn’t possible due to logistic arrangements.

The Black Caps left Pakistan yesterday after their cricket board called off the Pakistan tour just minutes before the first ODI, citing security threats to their team in the country.

ARY
 
I think the goverment needs to stop messing about

And start investing money into other sports like boxing , mma , athletics , weightlifting, wrestling, tennis , hockey , football

Why not give money to that javelin thrower spend money on him so he can get a foreign coach or go to China Russia and use their facilities and support.

It's time we stop putting all our eggs in the basket that is cricket.
 
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I think the goverment needs to stop messing about

And start investing money into other sports like boxing , mma , athletics , weightlifting, wrestling, tennis , hockey , football

Why not give money to that javelin thrower spend money on him so he can get a foreign coach or go to China Russia and use their facilities and support.

It's time we stop putting all our eggs in the basket that is cricket.

This has always been my opinion. It's a bad idea to be so invested in one sport that is largely run by your arch enemy that is hell bent on hurting you, and a few other boards who although nare not your arch enemy aren't exactly friends there.
 
Great to see you back [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION].

Got a bit worried with your prolonged absence with covid and everything going around the world.
 
I hope our Indian neighbours can put their differences and rivalry with Pakistan behind and show solidarity with us for a change. The PCB really needed the BCCI during these times

Ok. This is an Indian POV and be warned it may be somewhat biased and not be what you like to hear.

Until 2008, we had plenty of Islamist terror attacks which had the backing of the ISI and which ultimately culminated in 26/11 which shook the establishment.

I dont think posters appreciate the seismic shift that happened afterwards with the respect to the uncompromising attitude our establishment took afterwards.

Vajpayee ( a right winger at that) had extended the olive branch and even used cricket diplomacy at a time when PCB were in dire straits financially. We even toured twice but Pakistani establishment kept up its asymmetrical warfare on the one hand while encouraging ties on the other.

Post 26/11, the stance had been much tougher and nobody (bjp or otherwise) is going to help out in any way. Even in terms of cricket. That's just the harsh reality.
Maybe 20 years down the line but I dont see it happening anytime soon

Keep in mind, in India's case supporting Pakistan is like feeding your own existential threat . Whereas the likes of AUS ,ENG, NZ are simply playinggeo-poloitics depending on their interests.
 
Crucial that PCB takes stock of who their friends are and who their foes are at this time.
 
Crucial that PCB takes stock of who their friends are and who their foes are at this time.

The PCB should have clearly learnt in 2014 when all the ICC member states abandoned it and signed for the Big 3 formula with the BCCI. There are not going to be any true friends in the present status quo
 
Crucial that PCB takes stock of who their friends are and who their foes are at this time.

Hard to do that when big 3 exist and you know whose side they will take.

But we got burned by NZ of all teams.

So its hard to realize who are the friends.
 
Crucial that PCB takes stock of who their friends are and who their foes are at this time.

Probably true to a small extent but cricket boards are just pawns on this ugly international politics that has spread to sports.

PCB may not a have any strong friends or foes in the form of other cricket boards, the game is now among the governments and their politics.

India started this ugly business and it's has now spread to other corners of the world.
 
Welcome [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] , hope all has been well with you brother in these difficult times; have missed your sensible posts among a sea of low grade garbage.

Very well written POTW.

It’s a sad day for Pakistan cricket and their fans, the deplorable behaviour from NZC will never be forgotten and it’s disappointing how the ECB have turned their backs on Pakistan to despite the goodwill which was shown to them in 2020 over here when things were extremely grim.

Pakistan is a resilient nation and perhaps they will see the light one day, but as it stands they must act decisively now that there is no doubt about the cards of others.
 
Crucial that PCB takes stock of who their friends are and who their foes are at this time.

Well the smokescreen has disipated Clearly the big 3-4 India, Nz Aus and Eng are no friends of pakistan or care about pakistans interests

Pakistan must reach out to teams that have toured pakistan recently the likes of south africa, sri lanka, WI, zimbabwe, bangladesh and strengthen ties with them

Continue getting them over for bilateral tours regularly and get more of their players over playing psl
 
Crucial that PCB takes stock of who their friends are and who their foes are at this time.

Saj we are unfortunately in the position that all our friends are developing nations who don't have the money of the western boards and India. There was a time when we as the Asian block stuck together through thick and thin (yes, including India) and none of the Western block dared mess with any of us. The fracturing of the relationship between India and Pakistan destroyed that block. Right now, I so badly wish that block would put it's differences aside and come together again. Whether you are Pakistani, Indian or any other nationality, the total abuse of power by the Western boards here should make any real cricket fan angry. I am beyond fuming.
 
[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]

I haven't even read your post but will nominate it for POTW..
Welcome back bro
 
KARACHI: Sri Lanka Cricket (SLC)’s secretary Mohan De Silva said they are ready to replace New Zealand if the Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB) invites them.

In a statement to Sri Lankan media, Silva said he is equally disappointed after hearing about New Zealand Cricket (NZC)’s decision to cancel Pakistan’s tour on the 11th hour.

“As you all know PCB is a great friend of SLC and I am personally disappointed about the cancellation. I am very proud to say I went to Pakistan before sending our team in 2019 to observe the strength of their security. It was unbelievable the protection they offer – they have all the latest security systems in place. You have hundreds of cameras all set and a person can’t even move without being noticed. So, I have full confidence in Pakistan’s security,” he was quoted saying.

“So, if the PCB invites us, this is something we would seriously consider,” he added.

It must be noted here that PCB’s CEO Wasim Khan had already said that hosting either Sri Lanka or any other team after New Zealand departed, wasn’t possible due to logistic arrangements.

The Black Caps left Pakistan yesterday after their cricket board called off the Pakistan tour just minutes before the first ODI, citing security threats to their team in the country.

ARY

This deserves its own thread. Lots of love and respect to our Sri Lankan brothers. They definitely have never forgotten when we were there in times of their need. Champion people! Small island nation which has won more worldcups than those pretend nice guys kiwis could even imagine.

I am really disappointed with England - expected better.
 
Apparently the PCB is estimating its losses to be close to $25 million from the cancellation of the England and NZ series. Who is going to reimburse this amount to the PCB?
 
Apparently the PCB is estimating its losses to be close to $25 million from the cancellation of the England and NZ series. Who is going to reimburse this amount to the PCB?

Ramiz mentioned that we have started the correspondence regarding NZ withdrawal and I will get the compensation out (Mein aap ko compensation le kar dun ga).
 
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Ramiz mentioned that we have started the correspondence regarding NZ and I will get the compensation to you.

Most likely it will be some paltry amount, like when BD tricked them in 2012 and gave them 325k in return.
 
This deserves its own thread. Lots of love and respect to our Sri Lankan brothers. They definitely have never forgotten when we were there in times of their need. Champion people! Small island nation which has won more worldcups than those pretend nice guys kiwis could even imagine.

I am really disappointed with England - expected better.

Sri Lankan’s are some of the nicest people I have ever met here in London. Great, welcoming community
 
Pakistan needs to collectively take all these failed incidents such as the bomb threat today, Jarvo instead along with others and fully challenge the ICC over this matter.
 
Pakistan needs to collectively take all these failed incidents such as the bomb threat today, Jarvo instead along with others and fully challenge the ICC over this matter.

This is a matter of the NZ govt. Not ICC or NZC or the players.
 
This Taliban support = pariah state doesn't seem to have translated into anything in the non-cricketing world. It's business as usual there. So not sure how you are drawing the conclusion. But perhaps you can argue cricket is just the start. If so, just make it clear it's because of the alleged support for Taliban instead of this mystery security threat antics.

I’m not arguing that cricket is being used as an arm of western government policy.

I’m saying that 99.99% of western people who have heard of the Taliban consider them, like I do, to be gang of paedophile murderers.

In normal times, western cricket boards and cricketers will tolerate a little bit of risk to play with Pakistan.

But when everyone knows that they are the Taliban’s enabling allies, very few western cricketers would risk so much as a broken fingernail to play in Pakistan.

The events of the last month in Afghanistan have completely undermined Pakistan cricket.
 
Can I inject a touch of realism into this?

I do support the New Zealand withdrawal.

I do not support the England withdrawal.

BUT, and this is the key point. Please read my "Respectfully" thread about this.

Pakistan's support for the return to power of the Taliban has made the country - Pakistan - into a Pariah state again as far as England, Australia and New Zealand are concerned, and it already was with India.

I don't like what I'm about to say, but Pakistanis are kidding themselves if they think those countries will tour, or treat them with respect and consideration. They just won't. And the other countries won't reimburse them for financial losses either.

The PCB had worked really hard to get international cricket back, and safely.

But there remains a powerful element within the government and the ISI which thinks that having a Pakistan-supported Taliban government is somehow a legitimate option in the best interests of Pakistan. And unfortunately, as [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] and I keep trying to tell you, Pakistan is not going to be treated as an equal member of the cricket world at any time when a Taliban government rules Afghanistan.

It's really simple:

Taliban government in Afghanistan = Pakistan will be treated like a leper in the cricket world.

A nation won't be treated as an equal until it believes that's what it deserves.

Pakistan needs to stand firm because NZ and England (likely AUS too) have shown their true colors. It seems these countries and their cricket boards have gotten used to Pakistan bending over to appease them.

It's good the PCB is standing up for itself because no one else will. It also seems some posters want to maintain the status quo and I feel that has gotten Pakistan nowhere. Even logically it doesn't make sense.

Giving these countries the benefit of the doubt should be off the table. Just treat them with a firm hand and focus on the nations willing to tour Pakistan.
 
A nation won't be treated as an equal until it believes that's what it deserves.

Pakistan needs to stand firm because NZ and England (likely AUS too) have shown their true colors. It seems these countries and their cricket boards have gotten used to Pakistan bending over to appease them.

It's good the PCB is standing up for itself because no one else will. It also seems some posters want to maintain the status quo and I feel that has gotten Pakistan nowhere. Even logically it doesn't make sense.

Giving these countries the benefit of the doubt should be off the table. Just treat them with a firm hand and focus on the nations willing to tour Pakistan.

We have tried the colonial approach of bending over and appeasing them for the last two decades. It is stupidity to keep doing the same thing and expecting different results. It is time for a different approach now

The PM Imran Khan needs to now take time out and hold a proper meeting on Cricket with the PCB officials and players, maybe even spend a day in the PCB and give serious backing direction to the PCB, it's overall strategic direction and promise that the Pakistani govt will provide whatever monetary, non monetary support, diplomatic, security support you need to take on the Big 4 and to improve the quality of Cricket in Pakistan
 
Thread is not about Pakistan and Taliban.
 
I’m not arguing that cricket is being used as an arm of western government policy.

I’m saying that 99.99% of western people who have heard of the Taliban consider them, like I do, to be gang of paedophile murderers.

In normal times, western cricket boards and cricketers will tolerate a little bit of risk to play with Pakistan.

But when everyone knows that they are the Taliban’s enabling allies, very few western cricketers would risk so much as a broken fingernail to play in Pakistan.

The events of the last month in Afghanistan have completely undermined Pakistan cricket.

So you are saying essentially its going to be kind of a deadlock.

Because, in real world whatever Pak is doing (Debate isnt about that) as per their strategic policies and safeguarding of their interests they are obviously not going to alter them for a game of cricket with 3-4 countries.

So anyone thinking Pak is going to change national or strategic policies for any sport including cricket is in denial.

However, point is hypocrisy and double standards. There are countless policies in some cricket playing countries which might not directly align with all the other nations but they don’t stop tours based upon that. The way some countries form a group whenever their interests are under threat and use whatever tool at their disposal is pretty ordinary stuff however, history shows its not the first time.

Its pretty ordinary to use sports as a tool to influence countries but, at the same time its really childish of any country to think that Pak is going to change its strategic policies based upon that. They might try to influence in other ways as well but, leadership of Pakistan have made few things clear so they are ready face such gimmicks.

However, one thing PCB has realized now is that they have clearly been used. As whenever the interests of certain countries come under threat, whatever relationship PCB has formed with their boards is always going to take a back seat. A good lesson learned as Ramiz mentioned as well.
 
This is not cricket at all, this is racism in it's new form. My wholehearted support for PAK cricket and people - there has to be an end of this farce. All that was achieved in 12 years had been blown away in 12 hours and I must say - it was well planed, and well executed as well. And, it's unfortunate that in these difficult times, there are people who are trying to earn their two minutes glory - guys we have differences, we have egos, we have emotions and we have memories ... but above all we are cricket fans and we are human - let's be with the suffering team, the fans, the board and the nation. May be we can't change the plot or proceedings, but that shouldn't get better of our good judgment, neither should it stop us from calling a spade is a spade.

New Zeeland is a small fly in this plot, but what ECB did today was ultimate punch below the belt. They cancelled a tour for less than 48 hours for two useless games, which are not even proper cricket, in a place where their Royals visited and funny enough played cricket just about a year back, but in the process they have buried everything that PCB earned over last 12 years. On top of that, I read they proposed an alternative venue, as if the purpose was to showcase the T20 skills and people of Pakistan were hankering for it. We can try to justify the call, but deep inside everyone knows, it was a back-stab, done deliberately to make things worse. I have read many theories in this regard and I know that SRL team was shot on PAK soil - but that was 12 years back, the situation was different, so were the scales.... we can't hang a dead body time and again for one crime and go in circles. Life has to go on - it didn't stop after Christchurch shooting or London bombing, why it has to be different every time for PAK?

PAK is paying for the guts shown by it’s PM – like or dislike, Taliban is an entity and it’s PAK who has to live with her rowdy neighbors at west. PAK PM can’t swallow the pill imposed upon him without chewing to know how it would taste just to please the vaunted ego of the losers. I can refer one story from my dad – long back, Begum Zia was asked by an infamous agency to start a limited war against Myanmar, basically a shadow war keeping Bangladesh as screen – the exchange was quite sweet for her as well, eventually which would have led to an Air Base at Sandwip. She didn’t agree on three grounds – Bangladesh won’t be air lifted, it’ll stay there after the “friends” invariably leave, BD wasn’t prepare for a mass scale long term war and most importantly infuriate China. She paid dearly and still paying with interest ……

Coming back to cricket – I beg to disagree with [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION]. No boss, no effort for PCB or PAK Govt. will change the situation because the issue here is not security measures, neither PAK’s image or capability. PCB/PAK Govt. have done more than enough to satisfy the question mark, to a level that I am not sure at macro level if it’s financially profitable for PAK to host cricket at home or not – PCB might make money, but somewhere, someone has to count bills for this insane preparation. I don’t think Western cricketers are bigger targets than their diplomats living and roaming around PAK, neither players playing for National colors make them more lucrative target than in PSL colors. Let’s at least once try to agree that what was done is not right, we can justify the act every other day. In a small cricket family, one member is being pushed to the edge of the cliff inch by inch and we are trying to find out how the corpse can be collected from the valley!!!

Stay strong Pakistan and stay focused – at least now the position is better, the smoke screen is cleared. I don’t think direct retaliation (end cricket ties) helps PAK cricket, neither shifting home venue; but at the same time Cricket has to be played. Closing down the shop will close down the supply chain as well. What I see as the next most important task is to bring teams at home – whoever is willing and in exchange of counter tours (not money – bribe isn’t sustainable), to establish the credibility that cricket can be played in PAK. For “those” home series, only option I see is alter the schedule, that’s instead of AUS/ENG…. touring PAK, for the time being try to swap the home tours away and get the next tour planned for home – that will buy some time, better if in revenue sharing model. And, may be try to arrange tri/quadruple nation tournaments in 3rd country as hosts (Like PAK-BD-AFG-SRL in BD/SRL) – that will keep the money inflow and the hosting rights as well. Going back to UAE or any other country for home series is basically a compromise, that will set a wrong precedence.

Once again, my heartiest support for the fans and the players – one day it’ll be over and I hope it’s sooner than the plot.

So happpy to see you back Boss. Was really worried for you due to covid fears and all that. And on topic agree with every word of it.
As Mr. Gandhi put it,
"Self-respect knows no considerations."
 
Agree with OP and feel sorry for Pakistan fans. Pak cricket team reached good heights despite not playing at home for a decade and they need to channel that spirit again looking at the tough times ahead. I’m no security expert but I’d expect NZ to share the threat info at a minimum. England cancelling their series was a formality after NZ pull out but citing fatigue concerns was rubbing salt to injury.
 
spacing issue

This should not have happened, I am with Pakistan cricket fans on this.

I believe its time to de some introspection as well. I have read in other posts people blaming US/RAW/WesternCountries for this but i think its time for pakistan as a nation to introsepct and look where they are going wrong. From Supporting
Taliban to pouring money on radicalization, as a country you are loosing you credibility on world plateform.

Yes US used you for Afganistan, but you also got good amount of dollers out of that deal, but instead of using that money in development cause you did something else with that money.Its high time you and your country should start doing economic
reforms which will help country in longer run, like we India did in early 90s, for which we are reaping the rewards now. People who have their purses filled tend to spend more then who are only surviving.

A good economy will have good investors for sports, that is the mantra for today, Only govt will not be able to make you a better sporting nation. Take it step by step, yes it will take years for others to see the change but it will surely be
beneficial for your country.


Stop Showing support to elements which are not in your national intrest. Today's world is very different then in 90s with
people have access to social platforms. All the best wishes to you guys.

Stop treating it a racial or any other abuse the more economically you grow the more power you get, its reciprocal, shut your doors to any extremist elements, start working towards improving infrastructure, Industrialization etc. you will see the change in next decade.
 
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For those lecturing Pakistan on the Taliban, let me just say almost no one in Pakistan cares about such opinion, because you are asking Pakistan to have another enemy on its border, compromise much bigger interests and compromise its own security. It's futile and a waste of time. Not to mention the countries lecturing Pakistan would jump at the opportunity to fund extremists if it meant harming your enemy.

Now if you believe this was done due to alleged support for Taliban, that just proves the point people on this forum are making. I myself think the Taliban connection is a less likelihood scenario, but not impossible.
 
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Lol the Americans with their military might and $3 trillion over 20 years couldn't do Jack against the Taliban, so bruised are their egos that they are cheaply lashing out at Pakistan
 
I fear that this is checkmate for Pakistan cricket, the coup de grace has been most ably administered. We have been thoroughly outwitted by the enemies, those who wish to see the game of cricket die a quick and unnatural death in Pakistan. It was a different matter in 2009, when it was unexpected, and there was the eventual possibility of redemption, but this came, abruptly, whimsically, and without any justification or warning, purely as political retribution by the world's strongest powers, after twelve years of preparation and mitigation. So at this point, one has to ask, what can be reasonably done? The truth is that none of the responses suggested, from boycotting countries or tournaments to taking the matter up at international forums where these very conspiracies are hatched, are likely to do any good, and in fact will only reiterate our helplessness. A thorough bashing at the world cup at the hands of India will only accelerate the doomsday feeling, from which I fear there will be no coming back. One can easily foresee other countries not part of the Big 3 plus New Zealand refusing to come to Pakistan, because events and perceptions can easily be manipulated in a negative direction, as has already been demonstrated. When it's not about actual security or conditions on the ground but pure arbitrariness, driven by American revenge for a political slight, then what is to be done? This is not a cricketing matter anymore, it has become pure politics, from which there is no escape. Everything being said in reaction, such as win the World Cup to show that we are the best, only reveals the depths of desperation. Those are not strategies, but the point is that the incremental and systematic strategy lasting a dozen years has already been tried, and it has been shown that it can be wiped off in a minute. So what can possibly be done?
 
I fear that this is checkmate for Pakistan cricket, the coup de grace has been most ably administered. We have been thoroughly outwitted by the enemies, those who wish to see the game of cricket die a quick and unnatural death in Pakistan. It was a different matter in 2009, when it was unexpected, and there was the eventual possibility of redemption, but this came, abruptly, whimsically, and without any justification or warning, purely as political retribution by the world's strongest powers, after twelve years of preparation and mitigation. So at this point, one has to ask, what can be reasonably done? The truth is that none of the responses suggested, from boycotting countries or tournaments to taking the matter up at international forums where these very conspiracies are hatched, are likely to do any good, and in fact will only reiterate our helplessness. A thorough bashing at the world cup at the hands of India will only accelerate the doomsday feeling, from which I fear there will be no coming back. One can easily foresee other countries not part of the Big 3 plus New Zealand refusing to come to Pakistan, because events and perceptions can easily be manipulated in a negative direction, as has already been demonstrated. When it's not about actual security or conditions on the ground but pure arbitrariness, driven by American revenge for a political slight, then what is to be done? This is not a cricketing matter anymore, it has become pure politics, from which there is no escape. Everything being said in reaction, such as win the World Cup to show that we are the best, only reveals the depths of desperation. Those are not strategies, but the point is that the incremental and systematic strategy lasting a dozen years has already been tried, and it has been shown that it can be wiped off in a minute. So what can possibly be done?

Already opined here.

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...re-do-we-go-from-here&p=11300432#post11300432
 
They must have already scheduled preparations for the world T20 qualifiers so you cant expect them to send their main team. Sending any team means they are supporting Pak cricket just like they did during the revival as well.

If BD were ready to send their B team and Ramiz said no then he's a fool. Does he still think he's doing YouTube commentary?
 
I think Pakistanis are overreacting.

Everyone wants a "sense of security". If it isn't there, then blame should go to the past rather than blaming those people who have fears. These fears didn't come out from thin air. It came from very own hostile environment for the decades that exist in Pakistan.

It doesn't matter whether the situation is improved or not. People will always be suspicious and Pakistan should accept that coming to Pakistan for playing sports is a generosity and shouldn't be taken in a negative way if one doesn't come.

I was surprised that Pakistani fans are so much out of reality that they thought they could host against top teams in 2021.

The trust isn't there and reason is your own actions and incompetence of the past. Accept that and move on while keeping a foot on reality that top teams won't be touring Pakistan for a longer period of time.
 
For those lecturing Pakistan on the Taliban, let me just say almost no one in Pakistan cares about such opinion, because you are asking Pakistan to have another enemy on its border, compromise much bigger interests and compromise its own security. It's futile and a waste of time. Not to mention the countries lecturing Pakistan would jump at the opportunity to fund extremists if it meant harming your enemy.

Now if you believe this was done due to alleged support for Taliban, that just proves the point people on this forum are making. I myself think the Taliban connection is a less likelihood scenario, but not impossible.

Pakistan is no China to take on West. They should have known their limitations. West controls the narrative and the current narrative they are pushing is that Pakistan is an unsafe country.
 
Welcome back, MMHS. Good thread.

Solidarity should be shown with Pakistan definitely. They got backstabbed by New Zealand and also England.

It doesn't seem like there was any real threat. Just politics.
 
After ECB's withdrawal it is quite clear now that this was always a well planned move.
Teams like Srl, Sa, Wi, Zim can tour but eng, nz, aus can't? We can see that there is Some sort of pattern here and it's nothing but racism.
 
Nobody can take any stand until they see the intelligence or know the nature of the threat.
 
After ECB's withdrawal it is quite clear now that this was always a well planned move.
Teams like Srl, Sa, Wi, Zim can tour but eng, nz, aus can't? We can see that there is Some sort of pattern here and it's nothing but racism.

Every life is precious but for a global attention that the terror outfit seeks, those countries are not high profile when compared to Eng, Aus and NZ.
 
Great post. Absolutely agree with every single point here. It is blatant now for the world to see the discrimination against Pakistan in cricket here.
 
Good Post. Always look forward to read from MMHS, Junaids, Dr Bhassim, Savak, MenInGreen, Hoshiarpur Express amongst others. You guys write mostly nuanced without over the top rhetoric and nationalistic chest thumping, and Mamoon too for his vitriol which makes good reading and despite the hate he is able to generate, he still manages to give back as good as he gets.

Saurav and RR were contemporaries and have also shared time together in the commentary box, so I expect them to have cordial relationships and govt diktats apart, I hope they have unofficial channels active and hopefully something good will come of it.

This should be a wait and watch game for the western countries, they will be closely watching the fallout of the Talib govt and its support bases in Pakistan and the radicalization, there are lots of material and videos online of Imams and others openly supporting the Taliban, and as long as this perceived support is in the air, the West will react with caution. I think though, with the kind of security provided, Pakistan should be the safest country to travel to right now from a sporting perspective.

I hope things change soon, as an Indian who passionately loves sport and our rivalry with Pak, its disheartening to see the rivalry die down and except an odd cricket match or two, it doesn't generate the kind of interest like earlier. Sports like Hockey, Tennis, Squash, Football and many more are dying and unless there is money poured into it and international interest, it will not revive.
 
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I think Pakistanis are overreacting.

Everyone wants a "sense of security". If it isn't there, then blame should go to the past rather than blaming those people who have fears. These fears didn't come out from thin air. It came from very own hostile environment for the decades that exist in Pakistan.

It doesn't matter whether the situation is improved or not. People will always be suspicious and Pakistan should accept that coming to Pakistan for playing sports is a generosity and shouldn't be taken in a negative way if one doesn't come.

I was surprised that Pakistani fans are so much out of reality that they thought they could host against top teams in 2021.

The trust isn't there and reason is your own actions and incompetence of the past. Accept that and move on while keeping a foot on reality that top teams won't be touring Pakistan for a longer period of time.

I don't think it's an overreaction.

The PCB realized New Zealand was more than happy to sacrifice countless Pakistani lives by not sharing intel immediately. Imagine a nation finding you so beneath it that your lives mean nothing to them even after they've left the country.

I find that to be appalling behaviour.

Leaving the tour is a very minor thing compared to that disgraceful decision and I have a strong feeling that's what has left the entire Pakistani administration unhappy.
 
Good Post. Always look forward to read from MMHS, Junaids, Dr Bhassim, Savak, MenInGreen, Hoshiarpur Express amongst others. You guys write mostly nuanced without over the top rhetoric and nationalistic chest thumping, and Mamoon too for his vitriol which makes good reading and despite the hate he is able to generate, he still manages to give back as good as he gets.

Saurav and RR were contemporaries and have also shared time together in the commentary box, so I expect them to have cordial relationships and govt diktats apart, I hope they have unofficial channels active and hopefully something good will come of it.

This should be a wait and watch game for the western countries, they will be closely watching the fallout of the Talib govt and its support bases in Pakistan and the radicalization, there are lots of material and videos online of Imams and others openly supporting the Taliban, and as long as this perceived support is in the air, the West will react with caution. I think though, with the kind of security provided, Pakistan should be the safest country to travel to right now from a sporting perspective.

I hope things change soon, as an Indian who passionately loves sport and our rivalry with Pak, its disheartening to see the rivalry die down and except an odd cricket match or two, it doesn't generate the kind of interest like earlier. Sports like Hockey, Tennis, Squash, Football and many more are dying and unless there is money poured into it and international interest, it will not revive.

This has little to do with the Afghan situation and has almost everything to do with the whole Indo-Pacific geopolitics going on. Pak is being punished for being in the other camp and NZ is just a pawn in the game.
 
I think Pakistanis are overreacting.

Everyone wants a "sense of security". If it isn't there, then blame should go to the past rather than blaming those people who have fears. These fears didn't come out from thin air. It came from very own hostile environment for the decades that exist in Pakistan.

It doesn't matter whether the situation is improved or not. People will always be suspicious and Pakistan should accept that coming to Pakistan for playing sports is a generosity and shouldn't be taken in a negative way if one doesn't come.

I was surprised that Pakistani fans are so much out of reality that they thought they could host against top teams in 2021.

The trust isn't there and reason is your own actions and incompetence of the past. Accept that and move on while keeping a foot on reality that top teams won't be touring Pakistan for a longer period of time.

Except five international teams already toured since 2015. Including the one that was attacked in 2009.

So, “perception” is just a buzzword. It has no meaning since I’m sure there is a lot of “activity” in neighboring countries as well that is highlighted in the media.
 
My speculative mind says once BNP comes to power in Bangladesh, they'll have a tough time getting teams visiting their country. It's glacially moving in that direction.
 
This is my first post. I'm from India and i ll try to stay as much neutral as possible. I really appreciate this forum for maintaing decency in the posts.I can understand the pain and agony caused due to cancellation of back to back series.If i put myself in your shoes it would definitely hurt and i would have reacted same way or more if it would have happen to India. Also BCCI would have handled with fist power due to economic upper hand. However here i would like to point out this is never a Racism. If it is a racism the nz or Eng would not have toured or agreed to tour on first hand..Countries like Aus, Eng are ready to tour BD, SL, SA, WI where each has diff race and religion. SL has history of Violence and same with BD and SA.

According to me, for any country to decide touring another country depends on the historical events and current political scenario. If you see past cricket history, no other team had so much controversies as much Pakistan had..A cricket team was attacked by terrorists. One of the worlds biggest terrorist was caught staying in your country and was shot dead..Your Leaders were killed by terrorists..Also pakistan team in itself had so many controversies in recent and psst history which has added black taint. In last 2-3 years there were some changes and could see sincere effort jn bringing back normalcy.Your team were also improving with comparatively lesser controversies.

But said again the recent changes in political scenario of Afganistan and the corresponding reaction from Pakistan has again changed the world(at least some countries) suspicious towards your country.

Taliban is one of he most notorious terror group which if you look back the history had created various havocs across world. Supporting them openly and expecting other countries to accept it as normal is more like an oxymoron.It will definitely have an impact. I can see it is argued that you dont want to create another enemy. However i dont accept that argument. Who has more enemies than India. On one side we have Pakistan, Afganistan, china and on the other side we have BD and SL which are more inclined to China and troublesome neighbors. But it is about the stand that you take. India have had its own share of terror attacks and same with Srilanka and Bangladesh. Infact SL and BD are smaller than yours and less equipped than yours..But I dont see countries having any trouble touring there..Even SA which was banned from cricket earlier are now open for countries to tour..It js because the soft stance that your country has on terror groups and historical reputation played a vital role in Eng and nz decision.

Bomb scare and security threats from Intelligence need to be taken seriously by a board and to stay or leave depends on the trust on a particular board and government. It just shows that these countries are not trusting your government even though you provided highest of the highest security.

I really want Pakistan to have cricket back in their country for the health of cricket..I want a strong rival..without rival what is fun..But definitely certain things need to change. And stop blaming BCCI India and other boards..They have so much other things to do. If you see the past(and few old posts) you know Pakistan cricket does not need any external force to destroy it. It is due to your internal politics and mismanagement the board and cricket is in this condition.

So please stop this self sympathetic mentality and try to work on course correction. Dont react hastily and just focus on upcoming worldcup..
 
Ok. This is an Indian POV and be warned it may be somewhat biased and not be what you like to hear.

Until 2008, we had plenty of Islamist terror attacks which had the backing of the ISI and which ultimately culminated in 26/11 which shook the establishment.

I dont think posters appreciate the seismic shift that happened afterwards with the respect to the uncompromising attitude our establishment took afterwards.

Vajpayee ( a right winger at that) had extended the olive branch and even used cricket diplomacy at a time when PCB were in dire straits financially. We even toured twice but Pakistani establishment kept up its asymmetrical warfare on the one hand while encouraging ties on the other.

Post 26/11, the stance had been much tougher and nobody (bjp or otherwise) is going to help out in any way. Even in terms of cricket. That's just the harsh reality.
Maybe 20 years down the line but I dont see it happening anytime soon

Keep in mind, in India's case supporting Pakistan is like feeding your own existential threat . Whereas the likes of AUS ,ENG, NZ are simply playinggeo-poloitics depending on their interests.

I agree that 26/11 was shocking and had a big impact on Indian views about the Pakistani establishment, but Pakistan did tour India in 2012/13 for a ODI series.
 
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Just wanted to add two more things.. the post was speaking about Royals travelling to pakand few eng players for PSL..Royals fyi have their own security protection and they visit the country at their Individual ability and willingness. similarly eng players who attended psl come at their own Individual ability and board will not be responsible if anything had happen to them. However when jt comes to country tour the scenario is entirely different. The board has to take responsibility..Also a country's performance depends on players mentality and no board would want to risk their players especially with upcoming world cup. So please dont compare individual with team decision..scenarios are completely different..
 
I agree that 26/11 was shocking and had a big impact on Indian views about the Pakistani establishment, but Pakistan did tour India in 2012/13 for a ODI series.

For a return series that didn't materialize if I am not wrong.
 
Ok. This is an Indian POV and be warned it may be somewhat biased and not be what you like to hear.

Until 2008, we had plenty of Islamist terror attacks which had the backing of the ISI and which ultimately culminated in 26/11 which shook the establishment.

I dont think posters appreciate the seismic shift that happened afterwards with the respect to the uncompromising attitude our establishment took afterwards.

Vajpayee ( a right winger at that) had extended the olive branch and even used cricket diplomacy at a time when PCB were in dire straits financially. We even toured twice but Pakistani establishment kept up its asymmetrical warfare on the one hand while encouraging ties on the other.

Post 26/11, the stance had been much tougher and nobody (bjp or otherwise) is going to help out in any way. Even in terms of cricket. That's just the harsh reality.
Maybe 20 years down the line but I dont see it happening anytime soon

Keep in mind, in India's case supporting Pakistan is like feeding your own existential threat . Whereas the likes of AUS ,ENG, NZ are simply playinggeo-poloitics depending on their interests.

This is actually true. The 26/11 Mumbai attacks changed India's equations with Pakistan irrevocably. It was like inflection point

Bit like how 9 11 changed USA completely
 
This has always been my opinion. It's a bad idea to be so invested in one sport that is largely run by your arch enemy that is hell bent on hurting you, and a few other boards who although nare not your arch enemy aren't exactly friends there.

Back in 90s, big 3 and PCB were at a similar level. I respect your emotions but please don’t hate my country just because BCCI was able to capitalize on massive interest in the sport in the country. No one stopped PCB to invest in grassroots and start PSL in 2008.
 
Except five international teams already toured since 2015. Including the one that was attacked in 2009.

So, “perception” is just a buzzword. It has no meaning since I’m sure there is a lot of “activity” in neighboring countries as well that is highlighted in the media.
When Pakistan’s PM is openly supporting the Taliban and Pakistani diaspora is celebrating and chest thumping over their takeover, what else do you expect?
 
I don't think it's an overreaction.

The PCB realized New Zealand was more than happy to sacrifice countless Pakistani lives by not sharing intel immediately. Imagine a nation finding you so beneath it that your lives mean nothing to them even after they've left the country.

I find that to be appalling behaviour.

Leaving the tour is a very minor thing compared to that disgraceful decision and I have a strong feeling that's what has left the entire Pakistani administration unhappy.
I think NZ sharing the intel will make life hard for their undercover officers. No country will do that.
 
We can feel sorry for PCB, but the reality is that they are victims of Pakistan’s foreign policy and strategic interests.

The Pakistani state is the only state in the world to openly - and actively - support a terrorist regime in Afghanistan.

Whatever credibility and respect that Pakistan had was destroyed when Osama was found residing half a mile away from a military base in Abbottabad.

Over the last decade, Pakistan has tried to repair its soft image, but actions speak louder than words.

Pakistan’s support for Taliban and its “Man of the Match” performance in their resurgence as the central power in Afghanistan has sealed Pakistan cricket’s future.

Teams like Australia, England and New Zealand are not going to play in Pakistan in the future. We are pretty much back to square one.
 
Every life is precious but for a global attention that the terror outfit seeks, those countries are not high profile when compared to Eng, Aus and NZ.

Eng/Aus/NZ diplomats are roaming freely in Pak, hypothetically if any outfit wants a high profile target to get global attention, which will be the easier option those diplomats or a cricket team with presidential level security...

Can't believe that some people still think that this issue has anything to do with security.......it's pure politics by West after their humiliation in Afg.
 
We can feel sorry for PCB, but the reality is that they are victims of Pakistan’s foreign policy and strategic interests.

The Pakistani state is the only state in the world to openly - and actively - support a terrorist regime in Afghanistan.

Whatever credibility and respect that Pakistan had was destroyed when Osama was found residing half a mile away from a military base in Abbottabad.

Over the last decade, Pakistan has tried to repair its soft image, but actions speak louder than words.

Pakistan’s support for Taliban and its “Man of the Match” performance in their resurgence as the central power in Afghanistan has sealed Pakistan cricket’s future.

Teams like Australia, England and New Zealand are not going to play in Pakistan in the future. We are pretty much back to square one.

Cricket and politics should not interact, but Pakistan should have known better then to pander to boards who would not go out of their way for them, I didn’t expect the ECB to return the favour with the shoe on the other foot but even in the circumstances there is clearly a severe bias against the teams outside the circle of elites and it’s not good limiting the game to a special few
 
I think NZ sharing the intel will make life hard for their undercover officers. No country will do that.

Maybe, but should this avenue get pursued; the courts could also decide what should and shouldn’t be shared
 
Great to see you back bro! and about time somebody spoke some sense here on this topic. I fully support Pakistan and can't believe how some of the great and reputable posters have trouble seeing what is going on.

POTW
 
My speculative mind says once BNP comes to power in Bangladesh, they'll have a tough time getting teams visiting their country. It's glacially moving in that direction.

Can BNP ever come to power again?
 
I don't think it's an overreaction.

The PCB realized New Zealand was more than happy to sacrifice countless Pakistani lives by not sharing intel immediately. Imagine a nation finding you so beneath it that your lives mean nothing to them even after they've left the country.

I find that to be appalling behaviour.

Leaving the tour is a very minor thing compared to that disgraceful decision and I have a strong feeling that's what has left the entire Pakistani administration unhappy.

This is the only thing that matters and the matter on which NZ govt can be publicly questioned. There are some very smart posters who have picked up on this but most seem to be fixated on cricket (which is fine considering it was the first and obvious point). At the end of the risking unsuspecting lives with a complete and utter disregard is what hollows credibility and integrity. PAK citizens should know, they have lived through regimes in their own country where the first and foremost anxiety used to be that of bodily harm.

Cricketing ties / compensation / re-scheduling will work out and PAK cricket will survive. If a few cards are played right and the right time, it may even thrive in 10 or so years.
 
I'm not sure if I've seen your posts before [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] but everyone is saying welcome back...so welcome back!

Excellent post. As an Indian it's bred into me to be the enemy but from a purely objective point of view, this is remarkably poor taste from NZC and the ECB. To rely on intelligence from their governments, which was supposedly so dire the NZ players could not stay in the country...yet stayed an extra day before leaving and which the nations refuse to share with the Pak government or intelligence services.

This is yet another method of isolating a country which does not fall into the liberal/capitalist axis....
 
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