Those perturbed about insults to the Late Queen can now understand the Muslim POV

[MenInG]

Have a look at this

It's been forwarded a lot on social media but makes a good point.

 

[Hitman]

No offence, but I don't think anyone is threatening to behead anyone who is voicing his or her negative opinion on the Queen.

 

[MenInG]

No offence, but I don't think anyone is threatening to behead anyone who is voicing his or her negative opinion on the Queen.

So, in your considered opinion, anytime a Muslim says please dont insult the Prophet PBUH, he is asking for someone to be beheaded?

Pretty poor analysis, if so.

Are there any laws out there in the West which arrest people from insulting our Prophet?

 

[Hitman]

So, in your considered opinion, anytime a Muslim says please dont insult the Prophet PBUH, he is asking for someone to be beheaded?

Pretty poor analysis, if so.

I don't believe religious figures should be insulted. But anyone expressing negative opinion on the Queen doesn't have to fear for his or her life.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

No one is above criticism. Just because you love someone a lot doesn’t mean they are above criticism, granted that the criticism is merited.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I don't believe religious figures should be insulted. But anyone expressing negative opinion on the Queen doesn't have to fear for his or her life.

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/highland-chip-shop-owner-forced-27949117

Its a poor example you have given, perhaps expected given your hate filled jibes we have seen over the years but anyway above is an example of someone fearing for their life.

Hope that satisfies you and we can get back to discussing the main issue.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Have a look at this

It's been forwarded a lot on social media but makes a good point.

View attachment 117095

I like this line of argument. It is simple but conveys the point nicely.

No figure should be above criticism in fact there are many western texts that criticise our Nabi (SAW) - but there is a way to do so respectfully.

These awful hate filled cartoons that the west seem to think is the pinnacle of freedom of speech are not "freedom of speech". They are merely tools to insult Muslims.

 

[Local.Dada]

What a baseless equivalence.

When the queen was alive, I have seen so many movies/ scenes/ shows where the queen was parodied.

Let’s not even go into the other side.

I thought it was just common sense not to be mean to someone who just died and emotions are probably high.

No one is getting their sar juda from their tans nor there is an official blasphemy law that says queen can’t be insulted. I don’t live in the UK so you guys tell me, that would be surprising if such a law exists.

 

[Junaids]

So, in your considered opinion, anytime a Muslim says please dont insult the Prophet PBUH, he is asking for someone to be beheaded?

Pretty poor analysis, if so.

Are there any laws out there in the West which arrest people from insulting our Prophet?

My personal opinion is that freedom of speech should be the rule, but with people who slander or libel people actively prosecuted.

So, for example, Trump would be imprisoned for multiple libellous and slanderous comments. But you could not be prosecuted for calling Piers Morgan an annoying narcissist.

It would get difficult where a person like Prince Andrew was called a paedophile.

And there needs to be no different bar for general insults or blasphemy. The burden of proof of libel or slander needs to be the same.

 

[RexRex]

This is a poor analogy and you haven't given much thought to it.

Absolutely nobody gets beheaded, shot by an AK-47 or a fatwa bounty on his head for mocking the Queen, dead or alive. The british people are a thousand times more wiser and have perspective on what is right and what is not.

 

[Hitman]

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/highland-chip-shop-owner-forced-27949117

Its a poor example you have given, perhaps expected given your hate filled jibes we have seen over the years but anyway above is an example of someone fearing for their life.

Hope that satisfies you and we can get back to discussing the main issue.

Thanks for the link. By the way, I have absolutely no hate for anyone. If I did, I wouldn't be on a Pakistani forum.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

This is a poor analogy and you haven't given much thought to it.

Absolutely nobody gets beheaded, shot by an AK-47 or a fatwa bounty on his head for mocking the Queen, dead or alive. The british people are a thousand times more wiser and have perspective on what is right and what is not.

British people include Muslims who are also a thousand times wiser and have perspective on what is right or wrong. Fatwas and beheadings are usually declared from foreign shores, and apart from absolute fanatics, are ignored by the British Muslim mainstream.

 

[SalimBhai]

The queen has bent parodied multipole times whiie she was alive. She will be parodied in the future for sure also. Nobody will be beheaded, killed or shops burned down for it.

 

[dildilpak]

The queen has bent parodied multipole times whiie she was alive. She will be parodied in the future for sure also. Nobody will be beheaded, killed or shops burned down for it.

Exactly. This is false equivalency - right now, the public emotions are a bit high because of her death, but the queen has been lambasted in the past for her handling of Charles-Diana issues. So has been Charles for his affair with Camilla & subsequent marriage. They are not exactly ‘untouchables’ as far as media/people criticism has been concerned.

 

[SalimBhai]

I believe she was parodied in the show muppets also in the 80s?? I vaguely remember.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The queen has bent parodied multipole times whiie she was alive. She will be parodied in the future for sure also. Nobody will be beheaded, killed or shops burned down for it.

That is because, as RexRex points out, we British are far more civilised than third worlders. You won't get whole neighbourhoods burned down like you would in India, or ethnic cleansing like you saw in Burma. We Brits invented good manners and orderliness, where else is queueing seen at every level of society?

 

[MenInG]

Not sure such a simple point has been turned into stuff on beheading etc. by the usual detractors. But was to be expected.

 

[SalimBhai]

That is because, as RexRex points out, we British are far more civilised than third worlders. You won't get whole neighbourhoods burned down like you would in India, or ethnic cleansing like you saw in Burma. We Brits invented good manners and orderliness, where else is queueing seen at every level of society?

You forgot to add Pakistani villages also

 

[DeadlyVenom]

The point is being missed time and time again.

Nabi (saw) has been criticised many times by western theologians and academics. In fact, if you want to go and see for yourself go to Hyde Park speakers corner and you will fundos from all religions going back and forth about various religious topics- including the Prophet

But deliberately causing distress via 'art' and through mockery that is specifically designed to provoke and cause distress is a different matter.

And thats what the OP is saying. When emotions are high, deliberately insulting the queen serves no benefit but insulting and provoking.

 

[SalimBhai]

The point is being missed time and time again.

Nabi (saw) has been criticised many times by western theologians and academics. In fact, if you want to go and see for yourself go to Hyde Park speakers corner and you will fundos from all religions going back and forth about various religious topics- including the Prophet

But deliberately causing distress via 'art' and through mockery that is specifically designed to provoke and cause distress is a different matter.

And thats what the OP is saying. When emotions are high, deliberately insulting the queen serves no benefit but insulting and provoking.

And the solution for it is just ignore it. They will do it a few more times and if they can't get a reaction out of you. They will move on.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You forgot to add Pakistani villages also

Those have already been alluded to by previous posters whom I am helping to see a wider picture.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Its another case of freedom to speak against those you dislike but no freedom to speak against someone you think is one of you.

The Irony is the Prophet(pbuh) was a great human being, changed the world for the good, while the Queen has lived a life of self indulgence and oversaw aggression towards humans and even animals.

 

[SalimBhai]

Its another case of freedom to speak against those you dislike but no freedom to speak against someone you think is one of you.

The Irony is the Prophet(pbuh) was a great human being, changed the world for the good, while the Queen has lived a life of self indulgence and oversaw aggression towards humans and even animals.

Agreed with the description of the Queen

 

[cricketjoshila]

This is the case of a clash of cultures. In UK their deceased monarch is a subject of respect for the majority of their population. And i am talking about Queen Elizabeth.

Now majority of UK will not care of Islam or Hinduism or The Prophet(PBUH) is insulted and thats because its not part of their native culture.

Come to India or Pakistan, insult any political leader, unless it's downright filthy abusive no one bothers. But insults to religion attracts jail. Thats the culture.

 

[KingKhanWC]

This is the case of a clash of cultures. In UK their deceased monarch is a subject of respect for the majority of their population. And i am talking about Queen Elizabeth.

Now majority of UK will not care of Islam or Hinduism or The Prophet(PBUH) is insulted and thats because its not part of their native culture.

Come to India or Pakistan, insult any political leader, unless it's downright filthy abusive no one bothers. But insults to religion attracts jail. Thats the culture.

Majority of UK also dont care for Jews or Israel but they are protected even more than the Royals. Its not a cultural issue but a propaganda issue. The Royals are used to glorify a nation, land , its history so people here think Britain is still one of the greatest powers. I.e Kohi-Noor is wanted by India, its stolen but the Brit public dont want it gone. People change their so called principles based on self interests. If tomorrow Muslims nation ruled or became the most richest and powerful, British society will be taught to love them.

 

[SalimBhai]

Majority of UK also dont care for Jews or Israel but they are protected even more than the Royals. Its not a cultural issue but a propaganda issue. The Royals are used to glorify a nation, land , its history so people here think Britain is still one of the greatest powers. I.e Kohi-Noor is wanted by India, its stolen but the Brit public dont want it gone. People change their so called principles based on self interests. If tomorrow Muslims nation ruled or became the most richest and powerful, British society will be taught to love them.

Truth in what you say

 

[YousafTheBeast]

I don't believe religious figures should be insulted. But anyone expressing negative opinion on the Queen doesn't have to fear for his or her life.

Clearly never been to Paisley, Scotland.

 

[RexRex]

British people include Muslims who are also a thousand times wiser and have perspective on what is right or wrong.

Yes, technically they do include muslims but british muslims don't have the same values as the native population as far as freedom of expression is concerned, do they ? They will be outraged if a cartoon of their religious figures is drawn.

Whereas you can say absolutely anything you want about the Queen, Jesus or whoever in the UK without facing threats of physical harm.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Yes, technically they do include muslims but british muslims don't have the same values as the native population as far as freedom of expression is concerned, do they ? They will be outraged if a cartoon of their religious figures is drawn.

Whereas you can say absolutely anything you want about the Queen, Jesus or whoever in the UK without facing threats of physical harm.

Just because they don't like cartoons of their religious figures drawn doesn't mean they are all ready to behead someone. That was my point which seems to have gone right over your head. British Muslims are by and large law abiding citizens.

 

[RexRex]

Just because they don't like cartoons of their religious figures drawn doesn't mean they are all ready to behead someone. That was my point which seems to have gone right over your head. British Muslims are by and large law abiding citizens.

I never disputed that, why bring in a strawman ? But I noticed you agreed with me that british muslims want special treatment for their religion, in comparison to other religions in the UK that are open to mockery and criticism.

I am reminded of what happened in the aftermath of publication of Salman Rushdie's book in 1988. There were massively attended book burnings in Bradford, followed by firebombing of numerous bookstores and public libraries. If you read Rushdie's memoir 'Joseph Anton', you'll realise the absolute nightmare he and his family went through in 1989 and subsequently simply for a bunch of words he wrote. It brought a tear to my eye.

 

[Madplayer]

The young woman protesting against monarchy was jailed. And people here saying that at least she isnt in fear of being beheaded (as if that is the response of a common muslim or even a muslim government when Islam is insulted).

Does this mean that the only point of discussion is the extent of punishment for those who insult popular sentiments? jailing people is okay, "beheading" not okay. Where does this leave free speech?

It's pretty much evident by now that idea of free speech is selectively applied when insulting muslims.

Even Macron, who championed people's rights to insult Islam, rebuked a journalist who wrote something against him.

 

[Gilly]

The young woman protesting against monarchy was jailed. And people here saying that at least she isnt in fear of being beheaded (as if that is the response of a common muslim or even a muslim government when Islam is insulted).

Does this mean that the only point of discussion is the extent of punishment for those who insult popular sentiments? jailing people is okay, "beheading" not okay. Where does this leave free speech?

It's pretty much evident by now that idea of free speech is selectively applied when insulting muslims.

Even Macron, who championed people's rights to insult Islam, rebuked a journalist who wrote something against him.

You have a few facts around the wrong way.

Firstly she was not jailed for protesting against the monarchy, that is a flat out lie.

If any person was to go to a funeral at a mosque and held up a sign saying "XXXX islam" they too would be arrested for breach of the peace.

 

[Madplayer]

You have a few facts around the wrong way.

Firstly she was not jailed for protesting against the monarchy, that is a flat out lie.

If any person was to go to a funeral at a mosque and held up a sign saying "XXXX islam" they too would be arrested for breach of the peace.

Here is a news report.

https://www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/reports/a41169350/woman-arrested-abolish-monarchy-sign-queen/

You can spin it around and use vague phrases such as "breach of peace" or whatever but she was protesting against Monarchy. "Breach of peace", "public safety" etc. are fascist style vague phrases used by the state to arbitrarily come down on anybody they dont like. "Breach of peace" never happens when muslims or Islam is insulted and provoked.

Secondly, she held up a sign saying "**** imperialism, abolish monarchy".

Surely you aren't equating imperialism with Islam in your analogy?

Finally, what are the rules of free speech then? What is the right time or right place to say something? Are there any written guidelines for people to follow so that they may avoid arrests?

 

[PakLFC]

That what exactly what I said some days back. Insulting the Prophet(saw) of over 2 billion people is freedom of speech but questioning the holocaust and refusing to honour the queen isn't! No one is calling for beheading's or anything like that at all. One effective answer for all the Muslim's of the world is to stop cooperation, business and even sporting contact with the perpetrators.


Just imagine Muslim's refusing to play Cricket with non Muslim countries or represent their own country like the many Muslim's who play for the England Cricket side. Think about Muslim players in the EPL like Salah refusing to play for their club or the many American Muslim's in American NFL. You gotta hot them hard in the pocket.

Muslim's do not understand their own power and the influence they could have. Haathi khood apna vazan nehi jaanta!

 

[PakLFC]

For example after the many Hindu's living and working in the Gulf were sacked for insulting the Prophet(saw) they all stopped their blasphemous activity under the garb of freedom of speech. No crying over freedom of speech any more after their livelihood was taken from them then they were rightfully deported. This is how to deal with those who upset the Muslim's by refusing to cooperate. Non violent resistance from every Muslim government, sports people, actors, musicians and politicians much like what Gandhi did to the British. Do this and the whole world will be on their knee's.

 

[Sidilicious]

Absolutely no equivalence.

Firstly, the person who insulted the queen was arrested, but released as soon as they realised that it was not allowed.

Secondly, she was only arrested. Not had a fatwa thrown at her, or attacked and stabbed a couple of times.

Finally, The queen and the royal family has been made fun of multiple times. What was the consequence nothing.

Freedom of speech is a fundamental freedom. Now, it should be used judicially and not be exploited, but in case if someone religion or holy figure gets insulted by my thoughts, you have no right to harm some one!

 

[Zaz]

The hypocrisy has been exposed The truth is the western nations use this tripe to further their own agendas nothing else

 

[SalimBhai]

The two cases are totally different.

 

[Major]

Well known figures will always be criticized no matter what. You can be the Queen, King or the Prophet of any religion or nation. You cannot ask people not to criticize someone. Well known figures will always have people judging them. That's how it works and cannot be controlled.

Muslim's pov regarding the criticism towards the Prophet will always fall on deaf ears. Reason for that is because Muslims end up doing physical violence in revenge. After that takes place, Muslims than dont denounce the attacker, infact they show support towards the attacker. Eventually, the Muslim attacker and than his supporters only make the case worse.

As for the Queen, there has been criticism in the past on her and there will be criticism and mockery on her in the future. The English Monarch or Britishers are not threatening to kill anyone or indulge in violence.

Both cases are different also.

The Queen just freshly died. She wasn't even laid to rest and people made fun of her. Some respect should had been given as this was the time of mourning. People who want to hate her or want to take the revenge of Islam can always do so for the rest of their lives. But atleast let people mourn her death for now and show some respect.

Remember Philip Hughs death, had anyone made fun of his death infront of cricket fans (irrespect of nationality and religion)during the mourning period, they would had bashed him.

Anyways, later when people bash or insult her, no one is gonna resort to physical violence, and even if some lunatic does, the majority of the British community would not be supporting the attackers.

One of my relatives who is an ashiq e rasool, hates Ahmadis and supporters murderers that murder people on the basis of blasphemy, recently moved to England. I came across his WhatsApp status today where he was making fun of the Queens funeral. I know this would only create more hate and nothing else.

 

[dildilpak]

Well known figures will always be criticized no matter what. You can be the Queen, King or the Prophet of any religion or nation. You cannot ask people not to criticize someone. Well known figures will always have people judging them. That's how it works and cannot be controlled.

Muslim's pov regarding the criticism towards the Prophet will always fall on deaf ears. Reason for that is because Muslims end up doing physical violence in revenge. After that takes place, Muslims than dont denounce the attacker, infact they show support towards the attacker. Eventually, the Muslim attacker and than his supporters only make the case worse.

As for the Queen, there has been criticism in the past on her and there will be criticism and mockery on her in the future. The English Monarch or Britishers are not threatening to kill anyone or indulge in violence.

Both cases are different also.

The Queen just freshly died. She wasn't even laid to rest and people made fun of her. Some respect should had been given as this was the time of mourning. People who want to hate her or want to take the revenge of Islam can always do so for the rest of their lives. But atleast let people mourn her death for now and show some respect.

Remember Philip Hughs death, had anyone made fun of his death infront of cricket fans (irrespect of nationality and religion)during the mourning period, they would had bashed him.

Anyways, later when people bash or insult her, no one is gonna resort to physical violence, and even if some lunatic does, the majority of the British community would not be supporting the attackers.

One of my relatives who is an ashiq e rasool, hates Ahmadis and supporters murderers that murder people on the basis of blasphemy, recently moved to England. I came across his WhatsApp status today where he was making fun of the Queens funeral. I know this would only create more hate and nothing else.

The last para is scary as hell. How did Britain let in a guy with such a mentality? Is there is no proper vetting of social media accounts during visa/immigration process?