Top 15 batsmen of all in Test cricket

Harsh Thakor

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This is my list of the 15 best batsmen in test cricket in order of merit.Excludes any other form of cricket.


15 best test batsmen of all time in order of merit.

1.Don Bradman

In statistical term simply in a different league from anyone or like a creature from another planet.No sportsman let alone cricketer has established such a degree of supremacy over contemporaries of created statistical landmarks which will probably never be challenged,let alone equalled.Bradman mystified or puzzled even the best of mathematicians .His test average of 99.94 can never be equalled.For his era his strike rate too was astonishing .

If I had to scale Bradman for later eras he would possibly have averaged around 70-75 in later eras.Bradman was not at his best against the bodyline bowling not on wet pitches.He also only played in England and Australia. Trumper,Hobb sand Headley overshadowed the Don on bad wickets and I doubt Bradman would have intimidated express pace as brutally as Viv Richards or stood up to it as adeptly as Gavaskar facing the new ball.No doubt Bradman would have been the best in the later eras,but not necessarily against the most lethal bowling or treacherous pitches.






2.Jack Hobbs-

His aggregate of 5410 may not have been that high and if you scale average and Centuries Hutton and Gavaskar may inch ahead.However taking into consideration the state of the wickets Hobbs executed most of his runs and the situation she confronted at his best,Hobbs was the supreme champion.Hobbs pioneered the art of tackling the googly in South Africa,which was unplayable till then.His centuries at the Oval in 1926 and at Melbourne in 1929-30 ranks among the most defining efforts ever in the history of the game,both compiled in the worst of conditions.Hobbs overshadowed Bradman on wet sticklers.







3.Brian Lara

No great batsmen single-handedly turned or won games for his country as Lara,or carried the workload of a team's batting more.The prince from Trinidad could register mammoth scores with more pomp than anyone .Even when reaching three figures or a double hundred Lara would never curb his strike rate .In my view qualitatively he made a great impact in test cricket than Tendulkar if you asess the number of times he resurrected West Indies from the grave .In 1999 his successive scores of 211 and 153n.o took West Indies to reach the pinnacle of glory after looking dead and buried.At Barbados he encountered the trickiest of batting surfaces to take his team across the line,arguably amongst the 3 best test match innings ever.His 277 at Sydney in 1992-93 was also a gem displaying all-round brilliance and domination few overseas batsmen ever surpassed in Australia.In full flow he could be as mercurial as Viv Richards .Lara could produce strokse that were surreal taking cricketing art to regions of divinity.Broke the world record score twice which is remarkable.

However his career did have an ebb and flow where he encountered patches of inconsistency.Many of Lara's centuries were scored in losing causes.Lara also never scored a test century against a great genuinely fast bolwer like Alan Donald,Wasim Akram,Waqar Younus etc.Still he played Glen Mcgrath better than Tendulkar .





4.Gary Sobers


Possessed every component of a perfect batsmen be it power,technical skill or temperament.Blended the explosive power of a cannon with the skill of an engineer and temperament of a soldier.In a crisis would overshadow any batsmen of his age or even Viv,Greg or Sachin.Took to the sword the best bowlers ever like Richie Benaud,Vinoo Mankad,Subash Gupte,Alan Davidson or even Dennis Lillee.It is difficult to conceive many better innings than Sobers's 132 in the 1961 tied test at Brisbane,113 at Kingston v England in 1968-69 and 254 at Melbourne in 1972.Above all Gary averaged over 77 in tests won.Above all he was an epitome of consistency.

Perhaps had an advantage of batting at no 6 for a good part of his career and not at an earlier position.Also lot of his runs scored against weaker attacks of India and Pakistan ,and averaging under 45 in Australia.






5.Sachin Tendulkar

In terms of longevity the supreme champion .Broke the record in terms of age for youngest player to achieve all 1000 run landmarks.Tendulkar arguably faced more pressure than any middle order batsmen ever and in his peak period received minimal support from his contemporaries.He proved himself in any types of conditions and against every type of bowling.Ultimate epitome of consistency of his day averaging over 56 for a great part of his career .Made a Muhammad Ali style comeback after a tennis elbow win in 2007-08 to become his old self again after a loss in form in between.More complete than any batsman ever and to me overseas at his best in South Africa,where he he revealed batting perfection at it's ultimate height.

Not ranked higher than some because he did not turn the course or win games sufficiently ,often not able to deliver the final knockout punch or turn the final screws.In a crisis he could be overshadowed by Rahul Dravid,while Sehwag could win more games at his best.Tendulkar was also not at his best in run chases,where the likes of Lara,Gavaskar or even VVS Laxman overshadowed him.




6=Sunil Gavaskar/Len Hutton

I cannot seperate the two opening stalwarts who were champion s technically and very hard to dislodge.Both could master bad wickets but Gavaskar wa sthe more proven against top class pace .

Gavaskar broke all the batting records facing the best pace bowlers ever and stats wise in official cricket from 1977-80 was 2nd to only Bradman till then.Unlike Viv Richards and Greg Chappell Gavaskar proved himself as a master against great spin bowling or on turning tracks.

Hutton negotiated Lindwall and Miller at their peak and shaped English cricket as few cricketers ever did.Played some of the finest gem son bad wickets like when scoring 37 out of 49 at Sydney .

The main weakness of Gavaskar and Hutton was their relatively slow scoring rate ,often batting laboriously to wear down a possible result.Gavaskar also benefited from staying away from Packer cricket and facing the weaker Australian and West Indies attacks against whom he scored 9 centuries and over 1600 runs from1977-79.





8.Viv Richards

Statistics can hardly do true justice to Viv who intimidated the best of opposition or changed the complexion of game more than any batsmen in the history of the game .In his peak from 1976-81 the best since Bradman when including WSC supertests averaged over 60.Viv was revelation in England in 1976 when he scored 829 run sat an average of around118.In 1977-78 in WSC Supertests he averaged a remarkable 86.20 making him look head and shoulders above other superstars like Barry Richards or the Chappell brothers.No batsmen simply exuberated so much command on a cricket field exhibiting the aura of an emperor.More great bowlers or even great players of later decades prized Viv's wicket than any batsmen.

Later on did not display the same consistency often averaging below 50 in a test series .Viv did not also face his own West Indies pace quartet nor face a crisis often.




9.Walter Hammond

Unfortunate to play in the era of Bradman but for which he would have elevated his status to the scale of a Viv or Tendulkar.The most merciless batsmen morally of his time revealing the authority of a military dictator in full flow.Averaged 58-46 scoring 7249 runs and 22 centuries.Amongst the great match-winners in cricket history.



10.George Headley

A better batsman than even Bradman on wet or bad pitches.Before Lara no batsman so single-handedly bore the brunt of a weak side's batting like Headley.George was an architect of West Indies winning their 1st ever series versus England in 1935 with his 270 as well as sharing the 1929-30 series at home versus England when scoring 2 double hundreds.An epitome of consistency averaging 60.83 which is outstanding considering more than often he had to ressurect his team from the depths of despair.Arguably nobody defined spirit of West Indian cricket as much as Headley.


11.Steve Smith

Statistically the best after Bradman displaying more pomp when batting than anyone of this era.On Australian tracks or conditions the most outstanding performer ever after the Don.Unorthodox stance or style of play but can still take batting domination into regions of the sublime.In term sof average even Viv,Sachin or Lara have not come close to Steve.

However not at his best when the ball is moving in the air or on a green top .Also not faced as good bowling as past greats.



12.Everton Weekes

Looked like a re-incarnation of Bradman when batting .Plundered runs more after the Don more than anyone ,till then..Unorthodox but could tear any bowling attack to pieces displaying mastery of backfoot play.The finest exponent of the pull and hook shot of his time.In India in 1948-49 amassed a record 779 runs,scoring 5 centuries at an average of 111.Averaged a remarkable 58.61 and scored a century every 5 innings.However hardly proved himself in England and Australia.

I can visualize few batsmen resembling a cricketing machine as much or as mercilessly putting opponents to submission.



13.Graeme Pollock

Had the 2nd highest test average of all of 60.97 .His 135 at Trent Bridge in 1965 is ranked in the class of the best of al time.Arguably more talented than even Gary Sobers, but not fully tested.Amassed a record aggregate in a home series against Australia in 1969-70 and also very prolific in 1966 v Australia.A major part of a nucleus that made South Africa arguably the best side in the world.Greats like Chappell brothers rate Polock in the Lara or Tendulkar class,with Greg choosing Graeme in his all-time XI.Pollock gave some of the finest bating exhibition sin testing conditions in Australia and England.



14.Greg Chapell

Statistically the best batsmen of his era,including unofficial games in Packer supertests and against rest of the world.In WSC Supertest cricket boasted of the leading run aggregate of 1416 runs and the highest individual score of 246.No batsmen was more successful in the Carribaen or against them playing the great pace attack as Greg who in 1979 amassed 621 runs with 3 centuries at an avergae of 69.Also scored magnificient centuries in England like 131 at Lords in 1972 or unbeaten 235 at Faisalabad in 1980.Averaged over 70 in tests won which was remarkable.

Greg never played in India and did not prove himself thus against great spin bowling or on turning tracks.He was also at times caught wanting against the rising or bouncing delivery.Neverthless after Barry Richards,the most complete batsmen of his terror who combined watertight technique with attacking strokeplay to perfection.



15.Ricky Ponting


A batting genius in his own right who could devour the best bowling attacks in the manner of Viv,Lara or Sachin.Arguably a better exponent of express pace than even Tendulkar being amaster in pulling deliveries even on the stumps.Statistically at one stage in his career Ponting semed set to even surpass the heights acheived by Tendulkar but law of averages acted against him.Neverthless 43 centuries is a staggering figure as well as a 53+ average.Above all Ponting scored more hundreds in winning causes than any Australian batsmen ever and at his best could even give more flourish to the course of games than any batsmen.One of the major architects in the rise of Australia to a cricketing superpower.

Not ranked close to the top because he was not at his best overseas ,and also represented a champion team.He rarely encountered a crisis as Lara,Dravid or Sachin.Ponting also was not a great player of spin bowling.Ranked below Viv as he played lesser bowling and not as impactful.Greg rated ahead of Ricky considering the great attack she faced.
 
1. Bradman: no explanation required
2. Hobbs: did brilliant prior to WW1 when all batsmen struggled. Transformed into a machine post the war
3. Sobers: brilliant peak, considering he started as a leg-spinner batting at 8. Scored quickly and put pressure on the bowlers
4. Smith: nobody apart from Bradman has dominated series to the degree and consistency that he has. Already has more hundreds than Sobers, Chappell, Viv, Hammond etc so longevity is not an issues. Could easily become #2
5. Tendulkar: highly consistent with extreme longevity. The only thing hurting his record is lack of a top class peak and series domination. Technically perfect
6. Hutton: scored vs many great attacks and bowlers over a long career (Ramadhin, Valentine, Miller, Johnston, Lindwall, Adcock etc). The way he managed to reinvent himself after war injuries is remarkable
7. Headley: carried a weak team in an incredible way. The first great WI batsman
8. Lara: brilliant. The anti-Tendulkar. Could be prone to bouts of inconsistency, but could be incredibly dominant and had two top tier peaks. When on song, the best batsmen I have ever seen
9. Chappell: Brilliant record vs top class attacks, particularly the West Indies. Matches Tendulkar in terms of technical perfection. His WSC exploits are the stuff of legend, incredibly good in the most competitive cricket in history
10. Kallis: While not overly elegant, amassed an amazing record and performed very well in tough situations
11. Border: stood up to the WI in the 80's in a magnificent way. Compares with Lara, Headley in the way he carried a very weak batting lineup for most of his peak. Gritty, determined with a brilliant record all around the world
12. Waugh: no batsmen in history has been responsible for as many wins as Waugh. That is just a claim, but I am pretty sure that the figures would prove me right. People may say that Waugh was assisted by his great team, but they forget that he was at his most dangerous in a crisis. His 63* and 200 vs the Wi to win Frank, and his twin hundreds vs England at Manchester are just two examples of his dominance when his team needed him
13. Gavaskar: Brilliant record, and the finest opening batsman not from England. Doubts exist however about his ability to play pace bowling, as he struggled vs the WI and Aus pace attacks when they fielded a strong roster. Still an ATG bat though, and India's 2nd greatest batsman
14. Sangakkara: Sri Lanka's greatest cricketer, and a very elegant batsman. Played a number of brilliant innings all around the world. He is only held back in this list by his record overseas against stronger teams
15. Pollock: could be in the top 5 is his career had not been cut short. A lot of the time he is mentioned along with Sobers as the greatest bat of his generation
 
Covered that in my writeup. Here are his series against top pace attacks:

Vs WI 1975/6:
4 tests, 390 runs at 56 with 7 dismissals. 2 hundreds, 1 fifty
Vs Aus 80/81
3 tests, 118 runs at 20 with 6 dismissals, 0 hundreds, 1 fifty
Vs WI 82/83
5 tests, 240 runs at 30 with 8 dismissals, 1 hundred, 0 fifties
Vs WI 83/84
6 tests, 505 runs at 51 with 10 dismissals, 2 hundreds and 1 fifty

In these matches he scored 1253 runs at an average of 40, with two big hundreds inn dead rubbers. For me this is good, but compared to someone like Waugh with superlative records vs the great SA, WI teams in doesn't stack up.
Border performed much better vs great WI attacks, and Kallis batted in the hardest place to bat in the world, and ended up with top class records around the world. What he was able to do at home in SA is ridiculous
 
Covered that in my writeup. Here are his series against top pace attacks:

Vs WI 1975/6:
4 tests, 390 runs at 56 with 7 dismissals. 2 hundreds, 1 fifty
Vs Aus 80/81
3 tests, 118 runs at 20 with 6 dismissals, 0 hundreds, 1 fifty
Vs WI 82/83
5 tests, 240 runs at 30 with 8 dismissals, 1 hundred, 0 fifties
Vs WI 83/84
6 tests, 505 runs at 51 with 10 dismissals, 2 hundreds and 1 fifty

In these matches he scored 1253 runs at an average of 40, with two big hundreds inn dead rubbers. For me this is good, but compared to someone like Waugh with superlative records vs the great SA, WI teams in doesn't stack up.
Border performed much better vs great WI attacks, and Kallis batted in the hardest place to bat in the world, and ended up with top class records around the world. What he was able to do at home in SA is ridiculous
295 runs at 50 against imran Wasim 1986
266 runs at 67 against hadlee 1976
All these performances are enough to suggest that he was good against great pace attacks.
Secondly he is an opener so he deserves extra credit.
 
295 runs at 50 against imran Wasim 1986
266 runs at 67 against hadlee 1976
All these performances are enough to suggest that he was good against great pace attacks.
Secondly he is an opener so he deserves extra credit.
The Imran Wasim one is probably fair, but Hadlee was a very average bowler in the 70’s

In the SC, opening is probably easier as you get your eye in vs the pace so you are settled against spin. You also manage to have your eye in when the ball starts reversing
 
[MENTION=65183]freelance_cricketer[/MENTION] [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] [MENTION=139595]Ab Fan[/MENTION] plead your participation here appreciate
 
Please come here [MENTION=139595]Ab Fan[/MENTION] [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]
 
I agree with the OP.

Where would you rank Gavaskar as a test batsman?Agree with [MENTION=151648]therealAB[/MENTION]?

I strongly feel Gavaskar was a better test batsman over Border,Kallis and Waugh and arguably even Chapell.Remember he was an opener and received no support virtually,apart from Vishwanath.Sunny was not at his best when playing West Indies in 1983-84 while Greg Chappell too from 1980 was relatively unsuccessful against top pace of West Indies.At his best Sunny did not play the great quartet unlike Border.Still Gavaskar averages more than Border overall against top pace.Sunny was outstanding against Imran in 3 successive series.Also a better player of spin than Greg.

Waugh and Kallis did not have to bear as much pressure of a weak team or open the batting.Remember Waugh too had problems with pace initially and brother Mark even overshadowed him in 1991 in the Carribaen and against South Africa and Pakistan in Australia in the late 1990's.


Gavaskar was prolific facing Thomson,Imran,Hadlee,Willis,Botham.Roberts which speaks for itself.In Englsih condition she was better than Chappell or on turning tracks.Infact Sunny should be a contender to Sachin as a test batsman .If being critical of Sunny against top pace asess Chappell's form in 1979-80 and 1981-82 when he was troubled by the bouncing ball.

Even if we scale Gavaskar's batting in WSC period against lesser attacks he would be close to the top.Averaged over 89 facing Imran and over 77 in England facing Willis and Botham.When not at his best he scored a smashing 90 on the worst of pitches at Ahmedabad in 1983-84 and 121 at Delhi.

Comparatively against the best attacks of his time Kallis has not been as successful
 
Covered that in my writeup. Here are his series against top pace attacks:

Vs WI 1975/6:
4 tests, 390 runs at 56 with 7 dismissals. 2 hundreds, 1 fifty
Vs Aus 80/81
3 tests, 118 runs at 20 with 6 dismissals, 0 hundreds, 1 fifty
Vs WI 82/83
5 tests, 240 runs at 30 with 8 dismissals, 1 hundred, 0 fifties
Vs WI 83/84
6 tests, 505 runs at 51 with 10 dismissals, 2 hundreds and 1 fifty

In these matches he scored 1253 runs at an average of 40, with two big hundreds inn dead rubbers. For me this is good, but compared to someone like Waugh with superlative records vs the great SA, WI teams in doesn't stack up.
Border performed much better vs great WI attacks, and Kallis batted in the hardest place to bat in the world, and ended up with top class records around the world. What he was able to do at home in SA is ridiculous

I strongly feel Gavaskar was a better test batsman over Border,Kallis and Waugh and arguably even Chapell.Remember he was an opener and received no support virtually,apart from Vishwanath.Sunny was not at his best when playing West Indies in 1983-84 while Greg Chappell too from 1980 was relatively unsuccessful against top pace of West Indies.At his best Sunny did not play the great quartet unlike Border or Chappell.Still Gavaskar averages more than Border overall against top pace.Sunny was outstanding against Imran in 3 successive series.Also a better player of spin than Greg.

Waugh and Kallis did not have to bear as much pressure of a weak team or open the batting.Remember Waugh too had problems with pace initially and brother Mark even overshadowed him in 1991 in the Carribaen and against South Africa and Pakistan in Australia in the late 1990's.


Gavaskar was prolific facing Thomson,Imran,Hadlee,Willis,Botham.Roberts or Holding which speaks for itself.In English conditions he was better than Chappell or on turning tracks.Infact Sunny should be a contender to Sachin as a test batsman .If being critical of Sunny against top pace asess Chappell's form in 1979-80 and 1981-82 when he was troubled by the bouncing ball.Infcat Greg was not at his best on the quickest wickets like Kingston,Barbados or Perth.

Even if we scale Gavaskar's batting in WSC period against lesser attacks he would be close to the top.Averaged over 89 facing Imran and over 77 in England facing Willis and Botham.When not at his best he scored a smashing 90 on the worst of pitches at Ahmedabad in 1983-84 and 121 at Delhi.

Comparatively against the best attacks of his time Kallis has not been as successful .

Asess the failures too of Border in series against the best attacks by Border and Steve Waugh.Gavaskar has a better cumulative average facing the best Calypso bowling of around 43,which is ahead of Border which is around 39.It is quite likely that Gavaskar may have been prolfic in his peak from 1977-1980 fcaing the best Australian and West Indies attacks.You spoke of dead rubber but even Greg Chappell's 246 in the final WSC supertests. of 1977-78 was scored in a dead rubber with Australia having already lost the series to the World XI.

Not for nothing do cricket writers rank Gavaskar above Greg Chappell,Steve Waugh or Alan Border be it Cristopher Martin Jenkins,Geoof Armstrong or John Woodcock.
 
[MENTION=65183]freelance_cricketer[/MENTION] [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] [MENTION=139595]Ab Fan[/MENTION] plead your participation here appreciate

Hobbs the father of modern batting.

Bradman the perfect batting brain.

Then Headley, Hammond, Hutton, Compton, Sobers, Gavaskar, Viv Richards, Chappell, Border, Miandad, Lara, Tendulkar, Kallis.

But that means leaving out Weekes, Worrall, Barrington.....

Smith and Kohli I reserve judgement on until they finish.
 
And yes [MENTION=132062]Harsh Thakor[/MENTION] I rate Gavaskar as the best batsman from the Subcontinent.

Not sure I would put him above AB who was also a lone gun for years after Greg Chappell retired and before Jones and Waugh emerged.
 
And yes [MENTION=132062]Harsh Thakor[/MENTION] I rate Gavaskar as the best batsman from the Subcontinent.

Not sure I would put him above AB who was also a lone gun for years after Greg Chappell retired and before Jones and Waugh emerged.

Thanks for comments.appreciate view on Gavaskar

How do you compare Greg Chappell with Gavaskar in tests or with Alan Border?

Appreciate
 
Where would you rank Gavaskar as a test batsman?Agree with [MENTION=151648]therealAB[/MENTION]?

I strongly feel Gavaskar was a better test batsman over Border,Kallis and Waugh and arguably even Chapell.Remember he was an opener and received no support virtually,apart from Vishwanath.Sunny was not at his best when playing West Indies in 1983-84 while Greg Chappell too from 1980 was relatively unsuccessful against top pace of West Indies.At his best Sunny did not play the great quartet unlike Border.Still Gavaskar averages more than Border overall against top pace.Sunny was outstanding against Imran in 3 successive series.Also a better player of spin than Greg.

Waugh and Kallis did not have to bear as much pressure of a weak team or open the batting.Remember Waugh too had problems with pace initially and brother Mark even overshadowed him in 1991 in the Carribaen and against South Africa and Pakistan in Australia in the late 1990's.


Gavaskar was prolific facing Thomson,Imran,Hadlee,Willis,Botham.Roberts which speaks for itself.In Englsih condition she was better than Chappell or on turning tracks.Infact Sunny should be a contender to Sachin as a test batsman .If being critical of Sunny against top pace asess Chappell's form in 1979-80 and 1981-82 when he was troubled by the bouncing ball.

Even if we scale Gavaskar's batting in WSC period against lesser attacks he would be close to the top.Averaged over 89 facing Imran and over 77 in England facing Willis and Botham.When not at his best he scored a smashing 90 on the worst of pitches at Ahmedabad in 1983-84 and 121 at Delhi.

Comparatively against the best attacks of his time Kallis has not been as successful

For me, Gavaskar is among the greatest test opener of all-time and he will be in my all-time test XI alongside Jack Hobbs. He is simply well ahead of anyone who played the game as test opener in last 50 years.

We all acknowledge that quality of fast bowling got better since 1970. Dennis Lillee was a revolutionary of fast bowling and since then we had a bunch of legendary fast bowlers bowling unlimited bouncers from round the wicket to batsmen without helmet and of late with the tampered bowl.

Gavaskar was at its best in 70s throughout his career, even Viv became a shadow of himself in second half of his career. It is very hard to produce a batsmen who has grown up on those hard subcontinent wickets to stood up against some of the finest bowling attack.

It is also widely acknowledged that after Don Bradman, the greatest batsmen to have come from Oceania is Greg Chappell and third best is Ricky Ponting.

AB is a legend in his own right, an ATG captain but his test batting average was just 50 and he mostly batted at 4-5 which is an easier condition for batting than opening the batting.
 
Bhaijaan's Top 15 Greatest Test Batsmen ever :-

1. Don Bradman
2. Sunil Gavaskar
3. Sachin Tendulkar
4. Greame Pollock
5. Ranjitsinhji
6. Jack Hobbs
7. Brian Lara
8. Barry Richards
9. Viv Richards
10. Clyde Walcott
11. Haneef Mohammad
12. Allan Border
13. Jaques Kallis
14. Ken Barrington
15. Javed Miandad



Note 1 to some Indian fans who night hate me for putting Sachin at 3 instead of 1 or 2. I consider Sachin as a greater overall batsman compared to Gavaskar but purely as a test batter, Gavaskar marginally edges it. Gavaskar is only 2nd to Bradman as a test cricketer as well as batsman.


Note 2, Omission of Gary Sobers is because he averages 15 in NZ and 32 in Pakistan. It disqualifies him from being considered among Top 15 ever.


Note 3, Omission of Vijay Merchant and Vijay Hazare is to avoid allegations of regional bias l.

Note 4, Omission of Greig Chappell is because he is a nobody on subcontinent soil.


Thanks for reading.

Cricket is beautiful.
 
[MENTION=65183]freelance_cricketer[/MENTION] [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] [MENTION=139595]Ab Fan[/MENTION] plead your participation here appreciate

I have posted my Top 15..

Happy reading.

May the love of God be with you.
 
Bhaijaan's Top 15 Greatest Test Batsmen ever :-

1. Don Bradman
2. Sunil Gavaskar
3. Sachin Tendulkar
4. Greame Pollock
5. Ranjitsinhji
6. Jack Hobbs
7. Brian Lara
8. Barry Richards
9. Viv Richards
10. Clyde Walcott
11. Haneef Mohammad
12. Allan Border
13. Jaques Kallis
14. Ken Barrington
15. Javed Miandad



Note 1 to some Indian fans who night hate me for putting Sachin at 3 instead of 1 or 2. I consider Sachin as a greater overall batsman compared to Gavaskar but purely as a test batter, Gavaskar marginally edges it. Gavaskar is only 2nd to Bradman as a test cricketer as well as batsman.


Note 2, Omission of Gary Sobers is because he averages 15 in NZ and 32 in Pakistan. It disqualifies him from being considered among Top 15 ever.


Note 3, Omission of Vijay Merchant and Vijay Hazare is to avoid allegations of regional bias l.

Note 4, Omission of Greig Chappell is because he is a nobody on subcontinent soil.


Thanks for reading.

Cricket is beautiful.

A great effort.Original thinking .appreciate.thanks.Really like selections even if I disagree with order..Done justice to Hobbs,Lara ,Pollock and Gavaskar or even Viv even if my rankings differ.

Still noway can Gary Sobers and Greg Chappell be excluded.Never forget Bradman or Hobbs never played in thes ub-continent. The records of Sobers and Chappell are too outstanding if you consider the bowling attacks faced and manner of runs scored.Sobers conquered a crisis more than Viv Richards and was more consistent .He averaged close to 90 on the turning Indian tracks.Never forget Greg Chappell scored 235 at Faisalabad in 1980 and avergae around 57 in the series.Morally adding WSC stats the best performer against the great Calypso attack.Remember their best performances and best series aggregates.Infact Miandad did not have such a great record overseas .

Barry also hardly played test cricket so may not get a place here.Even adding Packer tests not scored more ha 1500 runs .
 
Bhaijaan's Top 15 Greatest Test Batsmen ever :-

1. Don Bradman
2. Sunil Gavaskar
3. Sachin Tendulkar
4. Greame Pollock
5. Ranjitsinhji
6. Jack Hobbs
7. Brian Lara
8. Barry Richards
9. Viv Richards
10. Clyde Walcott
11. Haneef Mohammad
12. Allan Border
13. Jaques Kallis
14. Ken Barrington
15. Javed Miandad



Note 1 to some Indian fans who night hate me for putting Sachin at 3 instead of 1 or 2. I consider Sachin as a greater overall batsman compared to Gavaskar but purely as a test batter, Gavaskar marginally edges it. Gavaskar is only 2nd to Bradman as a test cricketer as well as batsman.


Note 2, Omission of Gary Sobers is because he averages 15 in NZ and 32 in Pakistan. It disqualifies him from being considered among Top 15 ever.


Note 3, Omission of Vijay Merchant and Vijay Hazare is to avoid allegations of regional bias l.

Note 4, Omission of Greig Chappell is because he is a nobody on subcontinent soil.


Thanks for reading.

Cricket is beautiful.

Appreciate very much your response.Could you kindly name your test 15 in order?
 
Hobbs the father of modern batting.

Bradman the perfect batting brain.

Then Headley, Hammond, Hutton, Compton, Sobers, Gavaskar, Viv Richards, Chappell, Border, Miandad, Lara, Tendulkar, Kallis.

But that means leaving out Weekes, Worrall, Barrington.....

Smith and Kohli I reserve judgement on until they finish.

No Ponting,Pollock or Barry?Or even Waugh?Kindly reply
 
Bhaijaan's Top 15 Greatest Test Batsmen ever :-

1. Don Bradman
2. Sunil Gavaskar
3. Sachin Tendulkar
4. Greame Pollock
5. Ranjitsinhji
6. Jack Hobbs
7. Brian Lara
8. Barry Richards
9. Viv Richards
10. Clyde Walcott
11. Haneef Mohammad
12. Allan Border
13. Jaques Kallis
14. Ken Barrington
15. Javed Miandad



Note 1 to some Indian fans who night hate me for putting Sachin at 3 instead of 1 or 2. I consider Sachin as a greater overall batsman compared to Gavaskar but purely as a test batter, Gavaskar marginally edges it. Gavaskar is only 2nd to Bradman as a test cricketer as well as batsman.


Note 2, Omission of Gary Sobers is because he averages 15 in NZ and 32 in Pakistan. It disqualifies him from being considered among Top 15 ever.


Note 3, Omission of Vijay Merchant and Vijay Hazare is to avoid allegations of regional bias l.

Note 4, Omission of Greig Chappell is because he is a nobody on subcontinent soil.


Thanks for reading.

Cricket is beautiful.

Generally good but a few issues.
How is Gavaskar better than people like Hobbs and Hutton
Sobers failed against minnows, we generally do not hold that gainst batsmen as it indicates that his record vs everyone else was amazing to finish with an average of 58
Mohammad is no better than someone like Neil Harvey, definitely not in this conversation. To rate him above Sobers is just terrible. Would struggle to make a top 40

Chappell did well in Pak when he played, and was the best player of spin of the generation. He would have had no issues in the subcontinent

Merchant and Hazare ommissions isn't controversial at all, they have to right being on the list. Hammond >>> them and he isn't
Ranji is not better than Hobbs. No way. His vs Trumper is a much more legitimate conversation

Other terrible ommissions include:
Headley
Hutton
Smith

Miandad > Waugh is also probably wrong, Waugh much better overseas and against the best attacks of his time
 
1. Bradman: no explanation required
2. Hobbs: did brilliant prior to WW1 when all batsmen struggled. Transformed into a machine post the war
3. Sobers: brilliant peak, considering he started as a leg-spinner batting at 8. Scored quickly and put pressure on the bowlers
4. Smith: nobody apart from Bradman has dominated series to the degree and consistency that he has. Already has more hundreds than Sobers, Chappell, Viv, Hammond etc so longevity is not an issues. Could easily become #2
5. Tendulkar: highly consistent with extreme longevity. The only thing hurting his record is lack of a top class peak and series domination. Technically perfect
6. Hutton: scored vs many great attacks and bowlers over a long career (Ramadhin, Valentine, Miller, Johnston, Lindwall, Adcock etc). The way he managed to reinvent himself after war injuries is remarkable
7. Headley: carried a weak team in an incredible way. The first great WI batsman
8. Lara: brilliant. The anti-Tendulkar. Could be prone to bouts of inconsistency, but could be incredibly dominant and had two top tier peaks. When on song, the best batsmen I have ever seen
9. Chappell: Brilliant record vs top class attacks, particularly the West Indies. Matches Tendulkar in terms of technical perfection. His WSC exploits are the stuff of legend, incredibly good in the most competitive cricket in history
10. Kallis: While not overly elegant, amassed an amazing record and performed very well in tough situations
11. Border: stood up to the WI in the 80's in a magnificent way. Compares with Lara, Headley in the way he carried a very weak batting lineup for most of his peak. Gritty, determined with a brilliant record all around the world
12. Waugh: no batsmen in history has been responsible for as many wins as Waugh. That is just a claim, but I am pretty sure that the figures would prove me right. People may say that Waugh was assisted by his great team, but they forget that he was at his most dangerous in a crisis. His 63* and 200 vs the Wi to win Frank, and his twin hundreds vs England at Manchester are just two examples of his dominance when his team needed him
13. Gavaskar: Brilliant record, and the finest opening batsman not from England. Doubts exist however about his ability to play pace bowling, as he struggled vs the WI and Aus pace attacks when they fielded a strong roster. Still an ATG bat though, and India's 2nd greatest batsman
14. Sangakkara: Sri Lanka's greatest cricketer, and a very elegant batsman. Played a number of brilliant innings all around the world. He is only held back in this list by his record overseas against stronger teams
15. Pollock: could be in the top 5 is his career had not been cut short. A lot of the time he is mentioned along with Sobers as the greatest bat of his generation

I must praise your analysis and effort.Analytical summary with original Ideas.However I feel unfair to Gavaskar .Greatly praise your appraisal of Hobbs and Hutton .Well done

However I strongly feel Gavaskar was a better test batsman over Border,Kallis and Waugh and arguably even Chapell.Remember he was an opener and received no support virtually,apart from Vishwanath.Sunny was not at his best when playing West Indies in 1983-84 while Greg Chappell too from 1980 was relatively unsuccessful against top pace of West Indies.At his best Sunny did not play the great quartet unlike Border or Chappell.Still Gavaskar averages more than Border overall against top pace.Sunny was outstanding against Imran in 3 successive series.Also a better player of spin than Greg.

Waugh and Kallis did not have to bear as much pressure of a weak team or open the batting.Remember Waugh too had problems with pace initially and brother Mark even overshadowed him in 1991 in the Carribaen and against South Africa and Pakistan in Australia in the late 1990's.


Gavaskar was prolific facing Thomson,Imran,Hadlee,Willis,Botham.Roberts or Holding which speaks for itself.In English conditions he was better than Chappell or on turning tracks.Infact Sunny should be a contender to Sachin as a test batsman .If being critical of Sunny against top pace asess Chappell's form in 1979-80 and 1981-82 when he was troubled by the bouncing ball.Infcat Greg was not at his best on the quickest wickets like Kingston,Barbados or Perth.

Even if we scale Gavaskar's batting in WSC period against lesser attacks he would be close to the top.Averaged over 89 facing Imran and over 77 in England facing Willis and Botham.When not at his best he scored a smashing 90 on the worst of pitches at Ahmedabad in 1983-84 and 121 at Delhi.

Comparatively against the best attacks of his time Kallis has not been as successful .

Asess the failures too of Border in series against the best attacks by Border and Steve Waugh.Gavaskar has a better cumulative average facing the best Calypso bowling of around 43,which is ahead of Border which is around 39.It is quite likely that Gavaskar may have been prolfic in his peak from 1977-1980 fcaing the best Australian and West Indies attacks.You spoke of dead rubber but even Greg Chappell's 246 in the final WSC supertests. of 1977-78 was scored in a dead rubber with Australia having already lost the series to the World XI.

Not for nothing do cricket writers rank Gavaskar above Greg Chappell,Steve Waugh or Alan Border be it Cristopher Martin Jenkins,Geoof Armstrong or John Woodcock.
 
[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] Plead your participation with your great knowledge
 
There will always be differences in such lists and that is the beauty of it. Years of watching, talking and discussing cricket has made me realize how the game is looked at different from different perspectives of different cricket nations.

If this was about reputation alone, it would have been easier, but a deeper analysis of the game often calls for tough decisions to be made.
 
There will always be differences in such lists and that is the beauty of it. Years of watching, talking and discussing cricket has made me realize how the game is looked at different from different perspectives of different cricket nations.

If this was about reputation alone, it would have been easier, but a deeper analysis of the game often calls for tough decisions to be made.

Beautifully portrayed. Appreciate spirit.
 
This list is extremely flawed. Tendulkar is in no way a top 5 batsman. He is a pure function of longevity, very few match winning innings on his own and never crossed 900 ICC rating which truly separates the all time greats from those a tier below. In fact, he is no tin my top 10 all things considered
 
This list is extremely flawed. Tendulkar is in no way a top 5 batsman. He is a pure function of longevity, very few match winning innings on his own and never crossed 900 ICC rating which truly separates the all time greats from those a tier below. In fact, he is no tin my top 10 all things considered

Please name your top 10 in tests.

Tendulkar's 51 test centuries may never be broken for long nor his age records for crossing 1000 run barriers.At his peak Tendulkar was a lone crusader single-handedly carrying the mantle of India and still he averaged over 65 in tests won.No batsmen set so many test record sin an era o, bore so much pressure or championed such diverse conditions.Whatever marginal flaws he defined cricketing glory at a height unequalled.Even if more explosive or talented Lara or Viv were not as complete.Nobody played the best bowler of al time the legendary Shane Warne as well.Afterall Bradman stated it was Sachin who reminded him most of his self.
 
This list is extremely flawed. Tendulkar is in no way a top 5 batsman. He is a pure function of longevity, very few match winning innings on his own and never crossed 900 ICC rating which truly separates the all time greats from those a tier below. In fact, he is no tin my top 10 all things considered

What are the other flaws?
 
This list is extremely flawed. Tendulkar is in no way a top 5 batsman. He is a pure function of longevity, very few match winning innings on his own and never crossed 900 ICC rating which truly separates the all time greats from those a tier below. In fact, he is no tin my top 10 all things considered

You have every right to rate him wherever you like. He does feature very highly in most people's list however, mostly in Top 5 which kind of cements his legacy. Sure if the majority of people shared the same thought as you then he wouldn't be nearly as revered.

You have also mentioned 2,3 very random points. Try coming up with a Top 15 being consistent with your criterias and you will yourself realize the flaws in it
 
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This list is extremely flawed. Tendulkar is in no way a top 5 batsman. He is a pure function of longevity, very few match winning innings on his own and never crossed 900 ICC rating which truly separates the all time greats from those a tier below. In fact, he is no tin my top 10 all things considered

You are right, he is an Indian.
 
[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] Plead your participation with your great knowledge

It’s really difficult to compare batsmen of different era and everyone has favourites, therefore my choices could upset others, it’s always risky.

I think in Test batting, the top spot is ever locked by Sir Don.

For the next spots (15 is too many, I’ll pick my top few), this will be my picks

2. Lara
3. Viv
4. GS Chappell
5. JB Hobbs

Rest are too close to rank, I won’t go there. Had he added another 60-70 Tests with his 4, I would have taken BA Richards as the sixth.
 
My list will keep changing depending on my mood lol, so don't take it too seriously. Just going with instinct.

* denotes active players, their position can change with passing time, either up or down, for Smith only down because no one can replace Don

1. Bradman
2. Steve Smith*
3. Sachin
4. Viv
5. Hobbs
6. Gavaskar
7. Greg Chappell (him vs Gavaskar was very confusing, too close to call)
8. Hutton
9. Lara
10. Border
11. Sobers
12. Hammond
13. Kohli*
14. Ponting
15. Sanga

Kallis, Steve Waugh, ABDV, Headley, Miandad just miss out but they complete top 20. I wanted to include ABDV in place of Sanga but the way he deserted his team leaves a sour taste.
 
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Missed Weekes, Walcott, Pollock, Greenidge (so underrated) and a few others. Top 25 or 30 will be easier. From India Dravid and maybe Sehwag can sneak in top 30, Inzi and YK are candidates from Pakistan.

One player I would have wanted to add but can't is Vishy. I wish he had cashed in on easier pitches instead of only rising during crisis time and on tough pitches. Very much like Trumper (stats don't do justice to either of them), so underrated but he could have been regarded in the Gavaskar class if only he had that Bombay mentality. %wise I don't think any other batsman had as many sub-100 ATG knocks as the maestro from Karnataka. Only 14 100s in 91 tests but we didn't lose any of them, even that 1981 MCG test where Kapil defended 140.
 
Covered that in my writeup. Here are his series against top pace attacks:

Vs WI 1975/6:
4 tests, 390 runs at 56 with 7 dismissals. 2 hundreds, 1 fifty
Vs Aus 80/81
3 tests, 118 runs at 20 with 6 dismissals, 0 hundreds, 1 fifty
Vs WI 82/83
5 tests, 240 runs at 30 with 8 dismissals, 1 hundred, 0 fifties
Vs WI 83/84
6 tests, 505 runs at 51 with 10 dismissals, 2 hundreds and 1 fifty

In these matches he scored 1253 runs at an average of 40, with two big hundreds inn dead rubbers. For me this is good, but compared to someone like Waugh with superlative records vs the great SA, WI teams in doesn't stack up.
Border performed much better vs great WI attacks, and Kallis batted in the hardest place to bat in the world, and ended up with top class records around the world. What he was able to do at home in SA is ridiculous

You miss two things. First, Gavaskar was an opener unlike Waugh etc. For a fair comparison, one needs to add 5 to 7 runs to the average of an opener. Second, you are cherrypicking series in which Gavaskar performed poorly.
 
It’s really difficult to compare batsmen of different era and everyone has favourites, therefore my choices could upset others, it’s always risky.

I think in Test batting, the top spot is ever locked by Sir Don.

For the next spots (15 is too many, I’ll pick my top few), this will be my picks

2. Lara
3. Viv
4. GS Chappell
5. JB Hobbs

Rest are too close to rank, I won’t go there. Had he added another 60-70 Tests with his 4, I would have taken BA Richards as the sixth.

Appreciate.Good selections.Why Tendulkar not there with his astonishing record and longevity?Or Gavaskar who championed the best bowling?Like your choices of Lara,Hobbs and Viv but I prefer Tendulakr,Gavaskar or even Sobers to Chappell.
 
My list will keep changing depending on my mood lol, so don't take it too seriously. Just going with instinct.

* denotes active players, their position can change with passing time, either up or down, for Smith only down because no one can replace Don

1. Bradman
2. Steve Smith*
3. Sachin
4. Viv
5. Hobbs
6. Gavaskar
7. Greg Chappell (him vs Gavaskar was very confusing, too close to call)
8. Hutton
9. Lara
10. Border
11. Sobers
12. Hammond
13. Kohli*
14. Ponting
15. Sanga

Kallis, Steve Waugh, ABDV, Headley, Miandad just miss out but they complete top 20. I wanted to include ABDV in place of Sanga but the way he deserted his team leaves a sour taste.

A very well analyzed list.well done.I feel still Lara is a bit too low who should be in top 3-4 as well as Sobers.Good ranking of Gavaskar,Tendulkar,Viv and Hobbs.
 
Missed Weekes, Walcott, Pollock, Greenidge (so underrated) and a few others. Top 25 or 30 will be easier. From India Dravid and maybe Sehwag can sneak in top 30, Inzi and YK are candidates from Pakistan.

One player I would have wanted to add but can't is Vishy. I wish he had cashed in on easier pitches instead of only rising during crisis time and on tough pitches. Very much like Trumper (stats don't do justice to either of them), so underrated but he could have been regarded in the Gavaskar class if only he had that Bombay mentality. %wise I don't think any other batsman had as many sub-100 ATG knocks as the maestro from Karnataka. Only 14 100s in 91 tests but we didn't lose any of them, even that 1981 MCG test where Kapil defended 140.

On Vishy you have literally spoken my heart.On his day he could join the all-time greats posessing talent in the degree of a Viv or Sachin.His batting won more games than Gavaskar .Remarkable that three of his knocks rank amongst the all-time Wisden best .The likes of Lillee and Roberts felt it was a more daunting task to bowl to Vishy on fast pitch than to Sunny.
 
Appreciate.Good selections.Why Tendulkar not there with his astonishing record and longevity?Or Gavaskar who championed the best bowling?Like your choices of Lara,Hobbs and Viv but I prefer Tendulakr,Gavaskar or even Sobers to Chappell.

Gavaskar was a great great player but he didn't champion the best bowling attacks especially in the Packer period. Critics do unfairly target him by placing ridicuous filters (eg all 4 great WI quicks together played only 10 tests), I won't go to that extent but he did make hay in a couple of assignments against weaker than normal bowling attacks of WI and Australia.

Still he must be rated highly because he was carrying a pretty weak Indian side and opening is always tough, more so in the era he played. Brilliant against all kinds of bowling, especially against spin, his last test innings was a masterclass. Great technician, great strokeplay, clutch, master of fourth innings, knew how to score big and probably the greatest leaver of the ball. Imran had a big partnership with Sunny in the MCC Bicentennial match and in his own words he learnt a lot about batting just by watching Sunny from the other end, espcially how to organize an innings.

My only grouse is Indian fans tend to underrate Vishy a lot to overrate Gavaskar, has been a bane for Indian cricket with its hero worshipping culture which gets worse if the player in question is from Bombay/Mumbai. In that team Vishy was at least as important as Sunny, maybe even more when India really needed someone to stand up.

Likewise in case of Sobers an argument can be made that there are many myths around him because of his flamboyance in an otherwise dull era. He gave the spectators something they weren't accustomed to, a great entertainer. If you dissect his actual achievements they will look less extraordinary.

If you follow chess there was a Latvian (then USSR) champ called Mikhail Tal. He was the contemporary of Sobers 10,000 km away, the 8th world champion and one of the greatest attacking players of all time, brilliant tactician. During that era sacrificial attacks were frowned upon and defence ruled the roost with players like Botvinik, Smyslov, Petrosian. So Tal brought something new to the table, he was a rebel on the board and unpredictable: tactics, tactics, more tactics, sacrifices, imbalance, tricks, always looking for the initiative by giving up material, complicating simple positions, he played to the gallery at a time when they were bored with dry, technical chess. In his own words 'take your opponent into a deep dark forest where 2+2=5, and the path leading out is only wide enough for one.' Many of his sacrifices and ideas were later found to be unsound, today's engines can refute his lines in one second. So what? He is the idol of Kasparov, Kramnik, Anand and a strong influence on Carlsen, the people who have held the crown since 1985. Two of them (Kramnik, Carlsen) represent a school of chess diametrically opposite to Tal's playing philosophy, chess greats are often compared to geniuses, philosophers, athletes, scientists, logicians but there is only one magician, from Riga, some even call him alien. Sobers is the Tal of cricket, a romanticized figure but objectively not the strongest.

Don't worry about the rankings, even [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] (who is a fair poster without agenda) said that ordering them is risky/difficult. Many of these legends are equally great and it comes down to personal preference or maybe people will look at things differently. Ask three people who is greatest among Federer, Nadal, Djokovic and all three may come up with different answers and all will sound logical. Similar is the case here.
 
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You miss two things. First, Gavaskar was an opener unlike Waugh etc. For a fair comparison, one needs to add 5 to 7 runs to the average of an opener. Second, you are cherrypicking series in which Gavaskar performed poorly.

I am not cherry picking series he performed poorly, I am clearly taking series vs top pace attacks. If you can find other series vs top pace I will add them

Given he played in India where opening is easier as you can bat before spin and reverse swing, you cannot blindly add the runs to his average.
 
A very well analyzed list.well done.I feel still Lara is a bit too low who should be in top 3-4 as well as Sobers.Good ranking of Gavaskar,Tendulkar,Viv and Hobbs.

Lara:
inconsistent
scored a lot in dead rubbers
few matchwinning 100s (people overrate this aspect based on a couple of his ATG knocks)
often overshadowed by Adams, Hooper, Shiv, Sarwan over the course of successful series
selfish
disruptive influence on team
didn't mentor the junior batsmen well, aloof

He was a genius, artist, incredible talent, high peak but at least in my mind not a top 5 of all time material. Anyway these rankings are subjective, only Bradman is undisputed number one, we can argue about the remaining order till the end of time. I may make some minor changes in exact ranking dependng on my mood but these are my top 15 of all time.
 
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Gavaskar was a great great player but he didn't champion the best bowling attacks especially in the Packer period. Critics do unfairly target him by placing ridicuous filters (eg all 4 great WI quicks together played only 10 tests), I won't go to that extent but he did make hay in a couple of assignments against weaker than normal bowling attacks of WI and Australia.

Still he must be rated highly because he was carrying a pretty weak Indian side and opening is always tough, more so in the era he played. Brilliant against all kinds of bowling, especially against spin, his last test innings was a masterclass. Great technician, great strokeplay, clutch, master of fourth innings, knew how to score big and probably the greatest leaver of the ball. Imran had a big partnership with Sunny in the MCC Bicentennial match and in his own words he learnt a lot about batting just by watching Sunny from the other end, espcially how to organize an innings.

My only grouse is Indian fans tend to underrate Vishy a lot to overrate Gavaskar, has been a bane for Indian cricket with its hero worshipping culture which gets worse if the player in question is from Bombay/Mumbai. In that team Vishy was at least as important as Sunny, maybe even more when India really needed someone to stand up.

Likewise in case of Sobers an argument can be made that there are many myths around him because of his flamboyance in an otherwise dull era. He gave the spectators something they weren't accustomed to, a great entertainer. If you dissect his actual achievements they will look less extraordinary.

If you follow chess there was a Latvian (then USSR) champ called Mikhail Tal. He was the contemporary of Sobers 10,000 km away, the 8th world champion and one of the greatest attacking players of all time, brilliant tactician. During that era sacrificial attacks were frowned upon and defence ruled the roost with players like Botvinik, Smyslov, Petrosian. So Tal brought something new to the table, he was a rebel on the board and unpredictable: tactics, tactics, more tactics, sacrifices, imbalance, tricks, always looking for the initiative by giving up material, complicating simple positions, he played to the gallery at a time when they were bored with dry, technical chess. In his own words 'take your opponent into a deep dark forest where 2+2=5, and the path leading out is only wide enough for one.' Many of his sacrifices and ideas were later found to be unsound, today's engines can refute his lines in one second. So what? He is the idol of Kasparov, Kramnik, Anand and a strong influence on Carlsen, the people who have held the crown since 1985. Two of them (Kramnik, Carlsen) represent a school of chess diametrically opposite to Tal's playing philosophy, chess greats are often compared to geniuses, philosophers, athletes, scientists, logicians but there is only one magician, from Riga, some even call him alien. Sobers is the Tal of cricket, a romanticized figure but objectively not the strongest.

Don't worry about the rankings, even [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] (who is a fair poster without agenda) said that ordering them is risky/difficult. Many of these legends are equally great and it comes down to personal preference or maybe people will look at things differently. Ask three people who is greatest among Federer, Nadal, Djokovic and all three may come up with different answers and all will sound logical. Similar is the case here.

A brilliant analysis.One of the best on PP.
 
disruptive influence on team
didn't mentor the junior batsmen well, aloof

These two points are more character flaws than batting flaws but affected his batting and success of WI batting. Lara was a moody guy and his eccentricity seeped into his captaincy/batting form like the 1999 tour to SA which WI lost 0-5. That series result didn't reflect the strengths of the two competing teams.
 
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Lara:
inconsistent
scored a lot in dead rubbers
few matchwinning 100s (people overrate this aspect based on a couple of his ATG knocks)
often overshadowed by Adams, Hooper, Shiv, Sarwan over the course of successful series
selfish
disruptive influence on team
didn't mentor the junior batsmen well, aloof

He was a genius, artist, incredible talent, high peak but at least in my mind not a top 5 of all time material. Anyway these rankings are subjective, only Bradman is undisputed number one, we can argue about the remaining order till the end of time. I may make some minor changes in exact ranking dependng on my mood but these are my top 15 of all time.

Analytical,though I disagree considering Lara bore the brunt of weak team more than nay batsman and highhandedly turned more games.
 
A brilliant analysis.One of the best on PP.

Never forget Sobers tore apart the greatest bowling and championed a crisis more than Viv or Sachin.Had an incredible averages in England facing bowlers like Trueman,Statham,Snow etc and in Australia batted brilliantly facing Benaud,Davidson and Lillee.More consistent than Viv in tests .
 
Analytical,though I disagree considering Lara bore the brunt of weak team more than nay batsman and highhandedly turned more games.

Till the turn of the millenium Lara's WI was a very good side. Exceptional till 1995 and the flame kept burning for at least 5 more years though with diminishing intensity every passing year. So roughly for 60% of his career he was part of a strong team, part of number 1 team for almost 30% of his playing career. I think the matchwinning aspect of Lara is exaggerated and time permitting I will check the stats to confirm my instinct. The 1999 series against Australia and the one where he tamed Murali represented high peaks but a lot of barren in between where he was overshadowed by far lesser batsmen from his side. Just take the 3 series against India where they won/drew, 1994 Jimmy Adams thwarted us in India, Chanderpaul was their best in 1997 series, Hooper was the difference in 2002 series. Hope to dig a little deeper into his record in matches/series which WI won espcially in the 90s.
 
No Ponting,Pollock or Barry?Or even Waugh?Kindly reply


I don’t know enough about Pollock and Richards to make comment. Certainly the latter made the English top guns Snow and Underwood look like schoolboy cricketers when he played for Hampshire. I know Chappelli rates him near the top.

Ponting only turned into a run machine after a cadre of world class quicks retired around 2002 and were not replaced with equals.

Steve Waugh was in the same league as Greg Chappell and AB. It’s just hard to leave people out of your fifteen as there were more guys than that operating at about the same level.
 
Definition of batting really changed from 1990s onwards. A batsman cannot be called THE batsman of a generation simply on the basis of his test heroics.

Be it Tendulkar, Lara, Ponting, Pieterson, KohlI every top batsman that came since 1990s knew very well that they had to showcase their full talent across one dayers and 5 days cricket to be regarded something.

This applies just as much to one day stars who do not perform in tests.
 
Definition of batting really changed from 1990s onwards. A batsman cannot be called THE batsman of a generation simply on the basis of his test heroics.

Be it Tendulkar, Lara, Ponting, Pieterson, KohlI every top batsman that came since 1990s knew very well that they had to showcase their full talent across one dayers and 5 days cricket to be regarded something.

This applies just as much to one day stars who do not perform in tests.

Following on,

Viv, Tendulkar, Kohli are three batters whose overall reputation even as test batsmen is enhanced by how they dominated the other formats.
 
[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] plead your participation on this topic.
 
I am not cherry picking series he performed poorly, I am clearly taking series vs top pace attacks. If you can find other series vs top pace I will add them

<b>Given he played in India where opening is easier as you can bat before spin and reverse swing</b>, you cannot blindly add the runs to his average.

You really know little about Gavaskar. Firstly he didn't play "in India", he played both in India and other countries. Secondly, his average abroad was higher than his average at home.

It is ridiculous to compare Gavaskar to Waugh given that even though Gavaskar was an opener, his Test average was higher than Waugh's. Also Gavaskar played most of his career without protection like helmets which later batsmen like Waugh had.
 
Till the turn of the millenium Lara's WI was a very good side. Exceptional till 1995 and the flame kept burning for at least 5 more years though with diminishing intensity every passing year. So roughly for 60% of his career he was part of a strong team, part of number 1 team for almost 30% of his playing career. I think the matchwinning aspect of Lara is exaggerated and time permitting I will check the stats to confirm my instinct. The 1999 series against Australia and the one where he tamed Murali represented high peaks but a lot of barren in between where he was overshadowed by far lesser batsmen from his side. Just take the 3 series against India where they won/drew, 1994 Jimmy Adams thwarted us in India, Chanderpaul was their best in 1997 series, Hooper was the difference in 2002 series. Hope to dig a little deeper into his record in matches/series which WI won espcially in the 90s.


Lara has 4-5 tons in wins against non-minnows in his entire career. WI team may have lacked batting depth, but they had few ATG bowlers and had capacity to take 20 wickets to win tests. Lara having a big matchwinner tag has no merit.
 
Lara has 4-5 tons in wins against non-minnows in his entire career. WI team may have lacked batting depth, but they had few ATG bowlers and had capacity to take 20 wickets to win tests. Lara having a big matchwinner tag has no merit.

I think the match winner thing is more a testament to his free flowing careless style of batting plus he did play a couple of blinders. It's fate, Sachin I believe had produced a better knock, under way more pressure against a way better bowling attack at Chennai in 1999. We only needed 20 runs, had he got us across the line there is no way no way any Indian would ever take Lara's knock over Sachin's.

But that's cricket and life. We rue what we don't have. What about all the things Sachin did achieve which Lara did not. Should be thankful for you get.

Overall two great batsmen. To each their own. I never bother if anyone picks one over the other, I only bother when people pick one to put the other down unfairly which is wrong.
 
I think the match winner thing is more a testament to his free flowing careless style of batting plus he did play a couple of blinders. It's fate, Sachin I believe had produced a better knock, under way more pressure against a way better bowling attack at Chennai in 1999. We only needed 20 runs, had he got us across the line there is no way no way any Indian would ever take Lara's knock over Sachin's.

But that's cricket and life. We rue what we don't have. What about all the things Sachin did achieve which Lara did not. Should be thankful for you get.

Overall two great batsmen. To each their own. I never bother if anyone picks one over the other, I only bother when people pick one to put the other down unfairly which is wrong.

.very well expressed or put sir That is absolutely the correct spiirit
 
My only grouse is Indian fans tend to underrate Vishy a lot to overrate Gavaskar, has been a bane for Indian cricket with its hero worshipping culture which gets worse if the player in question is from Bombay/Mumbai. In that team Vishy was at least as important as Sunny, maybe even more when India really needed someone to stand up.

Vishy was a great player and the second most important batsman for India when he played with Gavaskar, but Gavaskar I have to say was at a different level for 3 reasons. Gavaskar opened, had a higher average (51 compared to 42) and scored more runs (10,122 vs. 6,080). I have no bias, I am neither from South India nor am I a Marathi.

The thing people don't get about Gavaskar is context. Who are the first 5 players to score 10,000+ runs in Test cricket and when did they debut?

Gavaskar (1971)
Border (1978)
Waugh (1985)
Tendulkar (1989)
Lara (1990)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_players_who_have_scored_10,000_or_more_runs_in_Test_cricket

Gavaskar played a large part of his career at a time when batsmen didn't have protective gear while facing great bowlers like Thompson, Lillee, Roberts, Marshall, Garner, Holding etc. There simply were no other batsmen who debuted before him who could score 10K runs in those circumstances. The next batsman to score 10K runs was Border, who debuted 7 years later and was not an opener.

Gavaskar ended with a higher career average than Border and Waugh. It is easy to have a higher average when a batsman is not an opener, Border and Waugh were not out 44 and 46 times in their careers compared to only 16 for Gavaskar.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/223646.html

Cook is a great player, but not surprisingly as an opener he only has an average of 45.
 
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Donald Bradman
Brian Lara
Sachin Tendulkar
Viv Richards
Gary Sobers
Steven Smith
Kumar Sangakara
Jacques Kallis
Sunil Gavaskar
Virat Kohli
Mahela Jayawardene
Ricky Ponting
Alastair Cook
Rahul Dravid
Shivnarine Chanderpaul.
 
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