Hitman
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Did Sachin Tendulkar play against average teams or all-time great teams?
- Thread starter Dr_Bassim
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No harm in admitting Botham had a higher peak. That 81 series was legendary.
Imran’s closest series like that was the one vs India where he took 40 wickets and got 2 centuries. But then he was only playing India so got marked down
I mean you are trying to convince me Tendulkar was close to Imran as an ODI bowler?
Imran’s strike rate was 40, Tendulkar’s 52, Imran’s average 26, Tendulkar 44. Imran’s economy rate 3.89, Tendulkar’s 5.2
And not to mention Imran was a frontline bowler and Tendulkar was a part time pie chucker.
Give it a rest dude
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Hitman
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Liar, liar
Pants on fire!
1 century and 0 half century in 5 innings
Link:
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
stats.espncricinfo.com
Ok wow such a difference!Liar, liar
Pants on fire!
1 century and 0 half century in 5 innings
Link:Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
He had a terrible series
Cover Drive Six
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You can debate the nervous nineties and his approach to making centuries, but I still wonder how some people question whether Tendulkar is the greatest, even in this day and age. It’s absolutely mind-boggling, given such selective criteria. He is living rent-free in the minds of some Pakistani fans, as he crushed their hopes in every World Cup until his last tournament. 
No one came close to Tendulkar in his era across all formats—he was simply the best. SRT and ABD are the only two batsmen I have seen who are technically perfect and almost flawless, with very few weaknesses.
No one came close to Tendulkar in his era across all formats—he was simply the best. SRT and ABD are the only two batsmen I have seen who are technically perfect and almost flawless, with very few weaknesses.
mominsaigol
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I'm saying that their a billion lists out their lol and no opinion is factual.
It's just you guys get triggered if Sachin isn't hero worshipped.
Sachin is an atg and the biggest thing going for him is his longevity. You've seen the likes of rohit, pointing, kohli, Kallis etc etc all had their golden years but they eventually declined and turned into hollow shells of themselves.
However Sachin didn't and was consistent for 24 years, but that doesn't mean he's the chuck norris of cricket. He's very consistent and top tier player however he went missing in the same final where sehwag was attacking. The results vs Australia could have been a lot less one sided has Sachin pulled his weight qith sehwag.
Similarly via sachin's own admission when he was 16 he flunked and failed and it took him a few tests to get accustomed to pace and become top tier.
In 2011 he was more or less a passenger in the final and pakistan shelled him a billion times in semi's. His final 2012 Bangladesh innings was God awful.
Their were alot of questionable innings he's also played throughout his career.
Sachin will always be top tier and everyone will put him at no 1 opener for their atg list, their is no denying that, but he isn't the all perfect opener that you guys portray him to be. He's a consistent batter who on his best days is superior to others and on his worst days is a passenger and that's how every cricketer is.
Only bradman was different as in his era he was genuinely superior to everyone in all categories while Sachin isn't for example de villers is a million times better then Sachin at bashing the day lights out of West Indies, sehwag was alot better at getting to his 50's them Sachin but Sachin was alot better then sehwag at converting his 50's to 100's.
Similarly Kohli is a million times superior at chasing in his holden era then Sachin but Sachin is a million times better in test and batting first in odi.
Pointing in his golden years was slightly ahead of Sachin however pointing declined massively while Sachin didn't and actually improved in the period pointing declined.
Viv is a million times better then Sachin when it comes to eye hand coordination and playing bouncers and reaction speeds but Sachin is more complete in the range of strokes and has better footwork.
No one denies Sachin isn't a GOAT but this stupid levels of hero worship acting like he scored 10 million runs every single game is criminal.
The thing is this.You can debate the nervous nineties and his approach to making centuries, but I still wonder how some people question whether Tendulkar is the greatest, even in this day and age. It’s absolutely mind-boggling, given such selective criteria. He is living rent-free in the minds of some Pakistani fans, as he crushed their hopes in every World Cup until his last tournament.
No one came close to Tendulkar in his era across all formats—he was simply the best. SRT and ABD are the only two batsmen I have seen who are technically perfect and almost flawless, with very few weaknesses.
As I’ve said in this thread. Tendulkar was a great. No argument.
Why is it so important for you guys that everyone agrees he’s the greatest. A lot of people don’t believe so. And even if you believe they are wrong, why do you have to cry over it?
The only criteria he exceeds everyone in is the number of matches he played. Woop di doo!
Longevity is a measure sure, but it’s not the only thing.
And at what point do you say a player has fulfilled the longevity criteria?
In my book, someone who has played 125 tests fulfils it easily. Back in the day with fewer tests being played. 70 was enough or mid 80 tests.
You just need to say yup this guy hasn’t just come out and performed in the odd series or couple of years, he’s done it for a while or a career.
Playing 200 tests doesn’t prove anything. And that’s the only thing Indians use as justification.
That is to be expected as Tendulkar was a part time bowler and ALWAYS had to bowl in the middle overs to well set batsmen... but still managed to take wkts and his wkt tally is only 28 wkts short of Imrans ODI Wkt tally which is a darn good achievement considering that bowling is his weak skill. Imran however is nowhere remotely near to Tendulkar in his weaker skill i.e. Batting.
But you said Tendulkar took 3 times as many matches to get those wkts in your earlier post I see you are not touching that anymore lol?
jnaveen1980
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My problem why do you care if Indians rare or over-rate or under-rate their own superstar. How does it matter. Does anyone question pak fans idolizing any of their superstars?
mominsaigol
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They have thr utmost respect for him, they don't think he's a folklore level myth nor do they view him as the God of cricket.
That'll never be the case as long as their big ant studios are licensing Don Bradman on their name while humiliatingly writing Sachin name as an unlicensed scratchin Tephulkar (No joke that's his name in 90% of ashes games)
Similarly bradman statues are at the scg with even Belinda clarke holding a greater stature.
Your entire info comes from international media, and you have zero freaking clue about how 2 faced Australians can be lol.
Don't tell where I can include myself in, if I wish to come to india and Shove myself into their culture and take over I shall, Comprende senior?
That'll never be the case as long as their big ant studios are licensing Don Bradman on their name while humiliatingly writing Sachin name as an unlicensed scratchin Tephulkar (No joke that's his name in 90% of ashes games)
Similarly bradman statues are at the scg with even Belinda clarke holding a greater stature.
Your entire info comes from international media, and you have zero freaking clue about how 2 faced Australians can be lol.
Don't tell where I can include myself in, if I wish to come to india and Shove myself into their culture and take over I shall, Comprende senior?
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jnaveen1980
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Technically they don't care. Just explains why Indians care rather than forcing you to care for him.
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jnaveen1980
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You are incorrect about what Aussies thought about Sachin in the 90s.
Sachin Tendulkar honoured by Australia
Indian cricket icon Sachin Tendulkar is awarded the Order of Australia, one of the country's highest honours.
www.bbc.com
Indian cricket icon Sachin Tendulkar has been awarded the Order of Australia, one of the country's highest honours.
Australian minister Simon Crean handed the award to him in Mumbai on Tuesday.
Australian PM Julia Gillard announced the award for Tendulkar last month, saying he deserved the "special honour" because he was a "very special cricketer".
Tendulkar is the first cricketer to score 100 international centuries.
The 39-year-old cricket star is also immensely popular with cricket fans in Australia.
He is the fourth non-Australian cricketer to be awarded an Order of Australia, after West Indian legends Brian Lara, Sir Garfield Sobers and Clive Lloyd.
Mr Crean said Tendulkar deserved the honour.
"From the heart of the game in London to the streets of Mumbai and throughout the world, cricket unites people from many cultures. Cricket is Australia's national game and one that we share a great love of with India. Our two countries embrace the game like nowhere else," Press Trust of India quoted Mr Crean as saying during Tuesday's ceremony.
"Today I am proud to have this opportunity to honour a great sportsman, a great cricketer, a philanthropist and someone who has inspired a generation," he added.
The cricketer has played 55 Test matches against Australia and scored 5,247 runs. Twenty of these games were played in Australia. An unbeaten knock of 241 in Sydney remains his highest score against Australia.
Tendulkar has also played 96 ODIs (one-day internationals) against Australia and scored 3,817 runs.
mominsaigol
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I even said they have the utmost respect for him, however they don't view him as superior to their own, they don't even acknowledge him in cricketing merchandise.You are incorrect about what Aussies thought about Sachin in the 90s.
Sachin Tendulkar honoured by Australia
Indian cricket icon Sachin Tendulkar is awarded the Order of Australia, one of the country's highest honours.www.bbc.com
Indian cricket icon Sachin Tendulkar has been awarded the Order of Australia, one of the country's highest honours.
Australian minister Simon Crean handed the award to him in Mumbai on Tuesday.
Australian PM Julia Gillard announced the award for Tendulkar last month, saying he deserved the "special honour" because he was a "very special cricketer".
Tendulkar is the first cricketer to score 100 international centuries.
The 39-year-old cricket star is also immensely popular with cricket fans in Australia.
He is the fourth non-Australian cricketer to be awarded an Order of Australia, after West Indian legends Brian Lara, Sir Garfield Sobers and Clive Lloyd.
Mr Crean said Tendulkar deserved the honour.
"From the heart of the game in London to the streets of Mumbai and throughout the world, cricket unites people from many cultures. Cricket is Australia's national game and one that we share a great love of with India. Our two countries embrace the game like nowhere else," Press Trust of India quoted Mr Crean as saying during Tuesday's ceremony.
"Today I am proud to have this opportunity to honour a great sportsman, a great cricketer, a philanthropist and someone who has inspired a generation," he added.
The cricketer has played 55 Test matches against Australia and scored 5,247 runs. Twenty of these games were played in Australia. An unbeaten knock of 241 in Sydney remains his highest score against Australia.
Tendulkar has also played 96 ODIs (one-day internationals) against Australia and scored 3,817 runs.
They view bradman and Belinda clarke in a higher regard.
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shaz619
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And also Ellyse Perry
DeadlyVenom
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Sachin was behind Lara even when it comes to this award.You are incorrect about what Aussies thought about Sachin in the 90s.
Sachin Tendulkar honoured by Australia
Indian cricket icon Sachin Tendulkar is awarded the Order of Australia, one of the country's highest honours.www.bbc.com
Indian cricket icon Sachin Tendulkar has been awarded the Order of Australia, one of the country's highest honours.
Australian minister Simon Crean handed the award to him in Mumbai on Tuesday.
Australian PM Julia Gillard announced the award for Tendulkar last month, saying he deserved the "special honour" because he was a "very special cricketer".
Tendulkar is the first cricketer to score 100 international centuries.
The 39-year-old cricket star is also immensely popular with cricket fans in Australia.
He is the fourth non-Australian cricketer to be awarded an Order of Australia, after West Indian legends Brian Lara, Sir Garfield Sobers and Clive Lloyd.
Mr Crean said Tendulkar deserved the honour.
"From the heart of the game in London to the streets of Mumbai and throughout the world, cricket unites people from many cultures. Cricket is Australia's national game and one that we share a great love of with India. Our two countries embrace the game like nowhere else," Press Trust of India quoted Mr Crean as saying during Tuesday's ceremony.
"Today I am proud to have this opportunity to honour a great sportsman, a great cricketer, a philanthropist and someone who has inspired a generation," he added.
The cricketer has played 55 Test matches against Australia and scored 5,247 runs. Twenty of these games were played in Australia. An unbeaten knock of 241 in Sydney remains his highest score against Australia.
Tendulkar has also played 96 ODIs (one-day internationals) against Australia and scored 3,817 runs.
shaz619
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This country comes first none-sense is very interesting isn’t it, that was never really the case with Sachin’s short-sighted/heighted batting. And in the present day, he is now taking out the anger of his failures as a cricketer on minority issues in his country by supporting far-right radical ideology, to make him appear as the true patriot he could never be as a sportsman.
I’m starting to understand why X (Twitter) is so anti India these days!
I mean we are discussing Tendulkar’s ODI bowling of all things when discussing his legacy!!
It’s worth framing!
What argument is this lol. This really is the twighlight zone @DeadlyVenom.
I mean we are discussing Tendulkar’s ODI bowling of all things when discussing his legacy!!
It’s worth framing!
Now imagine some player comming in and beating that benchmark by 50% and just soo you know Tendulkar did not play a lot of Tests for the first 10 or so years. For instance Eng played 283 tests during the 24 yr career timespan.
Playing well at 16 yrs and continuing that to age 40 is a mind boggling achievement. But you make it sound as though there is nothing more to Tendulkar than longevity ?
mominsaigol
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Aussies also view pointing, Cummins, Clarke and waugh in a higher regard because their not so narrow minded as to view cricket from only a batting lens.
For them trophy and eras matter more. Pointing and waugh created a classic era that proceeded to dominate for over a decade.
What these 2 achieved in terms of cricketing culture and their unbeaten streaks and butchering sides at home and away from home is significantly > What Sachin did.
Infact aussies frequently talk about how crap Sachin was a captain and leader in general.
Batting alone is never used as a sole metric to determine the quality of a cricketer unless your Indian where you can shift the goal post for Sachin.
Sachin is arguably india's worst ever captain, Led them to 21 test losses and in a single year collapsed the side. God of cricket my foot.
jnaveen1980
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I have no problem to be solved since i don't fret over other countries praising their own superstar. India has produced so many superstars. Not everyone get that unianomous respect. It is not that easy to earn that kind of respect. Kapil and Sachin were exceptions. Look how Kohli ridiculed after COVID for his performance. Pakistan fans worship him though for reasons i have no clue about. Indian fans do worship him. But he has equal number of critics as well.
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jnaveen1980
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Where is Imran Khan lol Sachin also has a GATE at the SCG.
mominsaigol
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Lara gets equal amounts of respect from every nation, almost no one ever ctiques malcom Marshall, jack Kallis has no haters, neither does Bradman and he's been dead for more then 20 years, no one would hate Inran Khan either if he actually retired in 90's and didn't bother to enter into this political drama and run his mouth.
Also this whole unianimous respect thing needs to stop, this is where you're wrong and I'm living proof of it.
You cam say things like general consensus but every human on earth doesn't respect him and aren't infatutiates with him like you are.
I can easily pull up media like you do clowning Sachin for ruining the team and collapsing it in 1997.
It's just I don't bother because ik some other nonsense narrative will spring up
because Imrans main legacy is due to winning the 92 WC ... nothing much whether you like it or not. So in that format Tendulkar managed to come really close to Imrans wkt tally which is a astonishing achievement and a significant reason why Tendulkar is a faar superior Cricketer than Imran.
mominsaigol
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Why do you have an issue with what pakistani posters claim about Sachin? Or what neutral fans claim about him? You have no issue right? So why do you feel the need to constantly reply and defend and act high and mighty when someone says anything about him?
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There’s a story about Don Bradman in his 60s facing some young up and coming quicks without pads on. They went easy initially but by the end they were bowling flat out. Don was smashing them to the boundary at will.
There’s a video Lara facing Rashid Khan a couple of years ago and dominating him. (Lara’s in his 50s)
Moral of the story. Great players could carry on playing if they wanted to. It’s just some people have a life!
I feel sorry for Tendulkar in a way. All he’s know since the age of 16 is batting. He’s had cameras on him. He wanted to be the greatest ever. But by no metric was he clearly better than his peers. He carried on playing on and on partly to set himself apart and partly because he didn’t know anything else. Then the much hyped hundred 100s. In the end, his record is not peerless, he got that 100th in a match against Bangladesh in a losing cause. Sums it up. Tragic really. Poor guy.
sweep_shot
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1990-2010 was a top quality period in cricket's history.
Since Tendulkar played in that period, I have to say he faced high quality teams and high quality bowlers.
Since Tendulkar played in that period, I have to say he faced high quality teams and high quality bowlers.
DeadlyVenom
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I have only skimmed the thread so I don't know if it's been said already.
But you know they have really lost the plot when all else fails they mention that Bradman said Tendulkar was the best or produce some letter from Bradman to Tendulkar.
Funny thing is that Bradman says Sobers is the greatest cricketer ever but they will then shift the goalposts back to batting only.
mominsaigol
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Their shifting the goal post to Australia not realising that aussies don't even bother licensing Tendulkar in their video games lol.
They have respect for Tendulakr in the same vein as having respect for any cricketer who's an atg.
But Aussies by no metric will ever view Tendulkar as > Bradman or as a God.
They have more respect for pointing and waugh, because these 2 created an 11 year era of dominance and a strong cricket culture whereas Sachin was so bad at captaincy, he drove India into a 1997 rut bigger then even what Shan Masood or Babar ever could.
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Warning:
Please refrain from making personal attacks
Please refrain from making personal attacks
mominsaigol
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What Pointing did is bigger then what Sachin could ever hope to achieve, the only problem with pointing was his decline post 2007 and sadly Indians use that metric of pointing stubbornly insisting of playing from 2008 to 2011 as a way to stain his career.
Pointing has won 2 Cups for hie country as captain and participated in 1999 wc and made good contributions towards the end goal whereas the only wc won under Sachin was in 2011 where he vanished for half of the tournament and pakistan shelled over 8 opportunities ahainat him.
Pointing scored 183 in a final where it actually counted whereas Sachin vanished and Indians use the excuse of, Ofcpurse he had to slog, Well sehwag didn't have an issue, if Sachin actually supported sehwag the result could have been closer.
Furthermore he and waugh created an 11 year era of dominance that's unmatched. Even years later BCCI is unable to defeat A much weaker Australia in a final in their own den or beat them in WTC.
Pointing as a batter has more clutch performances then Sachin does and his SR was higher then Sachin during his peak years along with avg, but 2007 to 2011 is where he declined and it fell flat.
As an overall cricketer he's way way superior to Sachin but unfortunately he's born in a 25M population while India is a 1.4B population. If pointing was Indian, their would be rain parades on him.
Pointing has won 2 Cups for hie country as captain and participated in 1999 wc and made good contributions towards the end goal whereas the only wc won under Sachin was in 2011 where he vanished for half of the tournament and pakistan shelled over 8 opportunities ahainat him.
Pointing scored 183 in a final where it actually counted whereas Sachin vanished and Indians use the excuse of, Ofcpurse he had to slog, Well sehwag didn't have an issue, if Sachin actually supported sehwag the result could have been closer.
Furthermore he and waugh created an 11 year era of dominance that's unmatched. Even years later BCCI is unable to defeat A much weaker Australia in a final in their own den or beat them in WTC.
Pointing as a batter has more clutch performances then Sachin does and his SR was higher then Sachin during his peak years along with avg, but 2007 to 2011 is where he declined and it fell flat.
As an overall cricketer he's way way superior to Sachin but unfortunately he's born in a 25M population while India is a 1.4B population. If pointing was Indian, their would be rain parades on him.
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Peak Botham's rating was 25% higher than peak IK's rating and some posters are saying that it's the same situation as SRT missing 900 ratings by 0.2%. In the first sitaution, two peak ratings are in differnet planet and other one we are talking about 1-2% higher peak rating for some batsmen over SRT? Peak rating of 898 is extremely good, Trying to make a case that why it was not 0.2% higher seems absurd.
Peak ratings don't define any player. What defines is how long you maintain high ratings in your career. Botham was superior all rounder than anyone else in history in first half of his career due to contributing with bat and ball both at the same time. IK does not even come close to that because IK was great bowler in middle and become a good batsman when he stopped bowling much. But IK was a far better bowler than Botham over his entire career. If I am picking a team for ATG XI , IK will be in contention for me but Botham won't be in contention.
Wasim having peak rating of 830 tells you something. But that itself is not an issue, issue is how long you keep your high ratings up compared to peer group. McGrath's majority of career was higher than Wasim's peak rating and that tells you something. McGrath going above Wasim for 2 months in peak rating tells you zero about anything.
Preak rating itself is meanigless metric. Rating trend over entire career also has flaws but that tells you more about a player. Anyway, this rating trend is also become less useful in current era due to many players opting to not play all matches and you lose large points for missing matches.
Bradman retired at the same age as Tendulkar ( 40 yrs )... lara also played till 38 try again.
So I see that you have quietly given up on comparing cricketing achievements and moved to non-cricketing areas to prove Imran was a better Cricketer ?
Hitman
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You're kidding, right? He was the second highest run scorer in that World Cup. T. Dilshan was the highest run scorer in that WC. In that semi final match against Pakistan, he was dropped 4 times, not 8 times.
I understand that you hate him, but at least check facts before posting nonsense. He failed in the final of the 2003 WC, that's a fact. Use it against him. He failed in the 2011 WC final against Sri Lanka, use it against him.
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And Australia's highest civilian award.
Nikhil_cric
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This is the only point I was trying to make. Thank you for taking the effort to write this.
Hitman
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Lara was a couple of months shy of his 39th birthday when he retired.Bradman retired at the same age as Tendulkar ( 40 yrs )... lara also played till 38 try again.
So I see that you have quietly given up on comparing cricketing achievements and moved to non-cricketing areas to prove Imran was a better Cricketer ?
mominsaigol
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I'm fabricating no lies, and I don't hate sachin at all, I disagree qith certain hype moments and your ego's want hero worship, however that doesn't mean I hate him, I Shove the truth on people lol.
Regardless yes 8 opportunities, 4 catch drops, 3 missed stump out opportunities due to kamran shelling it and one LBW decispn which was overturned. But you may have the last one, let's put it at 7. Again the word is OPPORTUNITIES, no drops.
Also please stop using these high score metrics on me. Babar was the top scorer of 2021 yet when you look at scoreboards you'd realise that he was pathetic beyond the India game.
First match vs Bangladesh sehwag scored 175 and dismantled Bangladesh while Sachin only made 28 of 29
Second game, Sachin scored 120 however strauss was MOM who scored 158 and India didn't even win, only ties that game.
3rd game vanishes againat Ireland, scores 38 and gets out, kphli, yuvi, Dhoni and pathan win it for india.
4th game guess what Sachin scores a 100 against SA oh and guess what, India loses that game hahahaha.
5th game vs Nedtherlands, Vanishes again, Yuvi wins it for india.
6th game vs WI, Vanishes for a 2 lol, yuvi wins it again.
7th game was Australia, Scores a 53, Gets put and yubi has to win it again for him by scoring a 53.
It seems more like Yuvi and sehwag have to carry for him.
So in a nutshell The only 2 centuries Sachin scores, India loses or ties? And it's just pak game where he got shelled which takes india over and even them it's misbah's fault lol.
How is this any different from Babar in 2021? You look at Babar top scoring however you realise he would have lost the Afghanistan and Nz game if asif didn't pull a 2 wonder miracle?
@Hitman Jee wanna continue? Wanna bring more narratives? Please educate me on how it's a team game
Hitman
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England's premier batsman of the 80's made his list of the top 50 Test players of all time and he listed the following players below -
#3 Sachin Tendulkar
#5 Viv Richards
#6 Brian Lara
#34 Ricky Ponting
That's how much respect a certain former great of the game has for Ricky Ponting.
Link: http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/threads/david-gowers-top-50-cricketers-of-all-time.88500/
#3 Sachin Tendulkar
#5 Viv Richards
#6 Brian Lara
#34 Ricky Ponting
That's how much respect a certain former great of the game has for Ricky Ponting.Link: http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/threads/david-gowers-top-50-cricketers-of-all-time.88500/
jeeteshssaxena
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Sachin is what James Anderson could have been if he performed like Dale Steyn over 180 tests.
mominsaigol
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And yet Tendulkar can't even get licensed properly.England's premier batsman of the 80's made his list of the top 50 Test players of all time and he listed the following players below -
#3 Sachin Tendulkar
#5 Viv Richards
#6 Brian Lara
#34 Ricky Ponting
Link: http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/threads/david-gowers-top-50-cricketers-of-all-time.88500/
Keep bringing these lists lol, give yourself a Highfive pat while you're at it
mominsaigol
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Sachin was the God of cricket, He was such a God that the only 2 centuries he scores in wc India loses or ties.
He was also such a goat that the moment he became captain, India lost 21 tests and won 4 and 1997 was a horrific year for india.
He was also such a goat that he single handidely gave Bangladesh their proudest moment in an Asia cup and let Bangladesh walk all over them.
Crown and King indeed
He was also such a goat that the moment he became captain, India lost 21 tests and won 4 and 1997 was a horrific year for india.
He was also such a goat that he single handidely gave Bangladesh their proudest moment in an Asia cup and let Bangladesh walk all over them.
Crown and King indeed
jnaveen1980
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All the experts like Bull lawry , Bradman , Lara ,Richard', Richie benaud , Tony Greig... vs pak fans. They are completely polar opposite about Sachin. That says more about pak fans than Sachin. More the hate he gets more his stature rises.
Hitman
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Goodness! Not only are you a dishonest person but you're a complete liar. You're someone who should never be taken seriously.
Sachin Tendulkar captained India in 25 Tests where India won 4 Tests, lost 9 Tests, and drew 12 Tests.
Have some shame.
Link: https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/e...ed;orderby=default;template=results;type=team
mominsaigol
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Ya, previously for you I was someone who's a smart poster but the moment I flip on not worshipping Sachin's feet, I'm a horrible person.
Keep nitpicking on certain things and using them cause I'm not following Sachin as closely and not as obsessed with him, I do know he lost 43 odi's and I do know he has a poor record.
Whether I'm wrong about quantification date is irrelevant to the overall point of him being a garage captain.
I don't need you to take me seriously as you're opinions aren't something I cater to lol.
jnaveen1980
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India went through darker phase as well. Tehelka tape revealed. There was this match There guys fixed India to lose. Tendulkar spoilt the party of them by winning it. Also he had one of thr worst umpiring in the 90s. 3 dismissals in Australia. Several bad decisions against him. Still finished with an avge of 58 in the 90s. He hardly played tests back them which was criminal. They scheduled more ODIs than Tests. He definitely under achieved. He was good enough to finish with a 60 plus avge guy.
I am yet to see any serious cricket expert rate Imran above Tendulkar. Does anyone know if there is such an expert?
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No off topic discussion please
Brian Lara’s last test was when he was 37. 3 years is a long time. And let’s be honest, he could have played even longer than that. Who did the WI have to replace him? No one. He could have played till 200 tests. He took breaks. Used to take breaks against minnows at times (who tendu loved to bash)Bradman retired at the same age as Tendulkar ( 40 yrs )... lara also played till 38 try again.
So I see that you have quietly given up on comparing cricketing achievements and moved to non-cricketing areas to prove Imran was a better Cricketer ?
Bradman had a lot of time taken out due to something like the world war! But again he could have continued as long as he wanted.
People have better things to do.
I’ve proved all I need to do about Imran as a cricketer. And now I have better things to do aswell. So come up with a better argument if you want my attention again. And no need to beg like on this thread. If it’s a useful argument I’ll get to you.
dubeTheGoat
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He played in 3 different eras so the excuse of weak or average team doesn't hold much. The fact that he piled runs and scored at a strike rate much higher than others at an era where we probably had the greatest bowlers in cricket (bar Barnes) is incredible.
Donald,Ambrose,Wasim,Waqar,Pollock,Donald,McGrath,Lee,Murali,Warne,Hadlee... the list goes on... There is a reason most cricketers from the 2000s are listed in world Xis .. because the game was most competitive at that moment. Even Zimbabwe was a decent team. Nowadays you have got a lot of teams to statpad - they have declined a lot, however during that time every team was troublesome and had bowlers who could go through a lineup on their day.
Another factor is the longevity of Tendulkar. This also works against him as it deflated his stats but at point he had an average of 57 in tests!!! 57... considering he started at 1990s against the bowlers of that kind. We consider Smith as the best since Bradman but even during the current era his avg has dipped to 57 whereas Sachin had that in the most competitive era. Australia were Goated, South Africa was at their peak, Pakistan were like the 2nd or 3rd best team of his time. Ranatuga's Sri Lanka, Crowe's NZ.. if anything, the biggest argument in favour of him is how many ATG teams he faced.. perhaps only the Deadly west indian quartet was missing but he debuted too late for that.
Donald,Ambrose,Wasim,Waqar,Pollock,Donald,McGrath,Lee,Murali,Warne,Hadlee... the list goes on... There is a reason most cricketers from the 2000s are listed in world Xis .. because the game was most competitive at that moment. Even Zimbabwe was a decent team. Nowadays you have got a lot of teams to statpad - they have declined a lot, however during that time every team was troublesome and had bowlers who could go through a lineup on their day.
Another factor is the longevity of Tendulkar. This also works against him as it deflated his stats but at point he had an average of 57 in tests!!! 57... considering he started at 1990s against the bowlers of that kind. We consider Smith as the best since Bradman but even during the current era his avg has dipped to 57 whereas Sachin had that in the most competitive era. Australia were Goated, South Africa was at their peak, Pakistan were like the 2nd or 3rd best team of his time. Ranatuga's Sri Lanka, Crowe's NZ.. if anything, the biggest argument in favour of him is how many ATG teams he faced.. perhaps only the Deadly west indian quartet was missing but he debuted too late for that.
dubeTheGoat
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He topscored against the stronger sides (granted England lost to Ireland but lets be real they always lose to them)
120 versus England ,100 versus South Africa, 53 against Aus. I dont see how you consider a 53 bad considering how valuable it is under those circumstances. Sure his 120 was in tie and his 100 was in a loss but that is the fault of Indian bowlers in the previous match and batsmen in the later.
IND vs SA Cricket Scorecard, 29th Match, Group B at Nagpur, March 12, 2011
Live Cricket Scoreboard: Get India vs South Africa 29th Match, Group B, cricket scorecard, ICC Cricket World Cup 2010/11 dated March 12, 2011.
Like when he got out against SA it was 2-267 at 39.4 overs.. I am not sure what else you were expecting.
And for the remaining matches, aside from West Indies and Lanka, its not like he got out in single digits, he still did contribute and those runs add up in the tally. (Not that it matters, the teams were minnows anyways so even if he scores would it be counted?) Sehwag too failed in finals - I dont see why you consider him a catalyst for our success.
If Sachin's 80 against Pak can be removed under the failure of Pakistan's fielders missing the catches, then so should most other batsmen run be removed because I am pretty sure even Sehwag was dropped by Bangladesh a couple of times..
mominsaigol
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He topscored against the stronger sides (granted England lost to Ireland but lets be real they always lose to them)
120 versus England ,100 versus South Africa, 53 against Aus. I dont see how you consider a 53 bad considering how valuable it is under those circumstances. Sure his 120 was in tie and his 100 was in a loss but that is the fault of Indian bowlers in the previous match and batsmen in the later.
IND vs SA Cricket Scorecard, 29th Match, Group B at Nagpur, March 12, 2011
Live Cricket Scoreboard: Get India vs South Africa 29th Match, Group B, cricket scorecard, ICC Cricket World Cup 2010/11 dated March 12, 2011.www.espncricinfo.com
Like when he got out against SA it was 2-267 at 39.4 overs.. I am not sure what else you were expecting.
And for the remaining matches, aside from West Indies and Lanka, its not like he got out in single digits, he still did contribute and those runs add up in the tally. (Not that it matters, the teams were minnows anyways so even if he scores would it be counted?) Sehwag too failed in finals - I dont see why you consider him a catalyst for our success.
If Sachin's 80 against Pak can be removed under the failure of Pakistan's fielders missing the catches, then so should most other batsmen run be removed because I am pretty sure even Sehwag was dropped by Bangladesh a couple of times..
However various Indian posters just couldn't take that and decided to obsessively drive narratives against me so I decided to attack back.
My stance is 100% clear, Sachin is an amazing player and for me he's the 2nd best odi batter after viv and top 5 to 10 test batters of all time.
By no means is Sachin a horrible player and is a great player and these losses are not on him, however Indian posters want every person on the planet to boot worship and I draw the line when they think they know about aussie culture and their views more then me a guy who has lived in Australia and met some aussie cricketers and have seen what they have to say.
Sachin is an emotion only for Indians and Indians have him as the no 1 batter and their a 1.4B population, However every person on the planet does not view Sachin as their Abu.
In Australia, Bradman, Belinda clarke, Ricky Pointing and steve waugh are viewed as superior cricketers due to the fact that belida was the face of women cricket, Bradman was the true god of cricket being superior in every department, and pointing + waugh created an entire era of 11 hear dominance while Sachin as captain flopped and was just a pathetic leader and also went missing in 2003 leaving sehwag stranded.
Sachin is an excellent player and if you wish to call him no 1 odi player and test player, then fine, but Indians need to stop acting as if Sachin is superior to everyone In all departments when their were matches he was outperformed in and other metrics people were superior in.
We haven't had a batter since Don Bradman who was superior to every batter in his era by virtually all metrics.
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dubeTheGoat
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Was glancing through your post but this part struck me... this is impossible.. 2003 Aus was a different beast. I have heard even from staunchest Indian fans that they were the GOAT so quite surprising to come across this statement. From the modern Indian team, the only squad that can come close is perhaps the 2018 squad and even then Aus would win majority of the time. It took a miracle of a lifetime to save a test in India in 2001 and even then they won it next time with the help of Martyn.
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mominsaigol
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Well have this arguement with @jnaveen1980 who's supposedly thinks Australia dominated because every side was a minnow back then which is a laughable take as besides England and India, almost every side has deteriorated.
Zimbabwe is a joke now, NZ are so out of it that Afghanistan and wi bullied then into next week, WI is an even bigger joke now, SA of 2003 wipes the floor with current sa no contest considering how many passengers they carry in bavuma and hendricks. 2003 Australia mops the floor qith 2023 and 2024 Australia with negative difficulty considering even their best players like starc, smith and Warner are washed up has beens.
jnaveen1980
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Ajmal clearly was not "bowling"He topscored against the stronger sides (granted England lost to Ireland but lets be real they always lose to them)
120 versus England ,100 versus South Africa, 53 against Aus. I dont see how you consider a 53 bad considering how valuable it is under those circumstances. Sure his 120 was in tie and his 100 was in a loss but that is the fault of Indian bowlers in the previous match and batsmen in the later.
IND vs SA Cricket Scorecard, 29th Match, Group B at Nagpur, March 12, 2011
Live Cricket Scoreboard: Get India vs South Africa 29th Match, Group B, cricket scorecard, ICC Cricket World Cup 2010/11 dated March 12, 2011.
Like when he got out against SA it was 2-267 at 39.4 overs.. I am not sure what else you were expecting.
And for the remaining matches, aside from West Indies and Lanka, its not like he got out in single digits, he still did contribute and those runs add up in the tally. (Not that it matters, the teams were minnows anyways so even if he scores would it be counted?) Sehwag too failed in finals - I dont see why you consider him a catalyst for our success.
If Sachin's 80 against Pak can be removed under the failure of Pakistan's fielders missing the catches, then so should most other batsmen run be removed because I am pretty sure even Sehwag was dropped by Bangladesh a couple of times..
jnaveen1980
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Since you mentioned my name I reapond. I never said that. All I said was you cannot categorically say 2003 Australia will destroy this Indian side. Australia had issues in 2003 world cup itself against 3 different teams. Symonds and Bichel stepped up in those matches because opposition didn't have good 2nd change 3rd change bowlers. Was the case with most teams. You made the hypothetical claim that Australia would beat anyone in any era.
Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH
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So you think this era is the best as far as Test cricket is concerned.
mominsaigol
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I stand by said hypothetical claim, especially when the claim involves something stupid like 2024 India > 2003 Australia .
Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH
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Like ashwin "bowls".
Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH
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Lara was a far superior Test player especially against spin.You can debate the nervous nineties and his approach to making centuries, but I still wonder how some people question whether Tendulkar is the greatest, even in this day and age. It’s absolutely mind-boggling, given such selective criteria. He is living rent-free in the minds of some Pakistani fans, as he crushed their hopes in every World Cup until his last tournament.
No one came close to Tendulkar in his era across all formats—he was simply the best. SRT and ABD are the only two batsmen I have seen who are technically perfect and almost flawless, with very few weaknesses.
jnaveen1980
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That is different from stating they will destroy India. Indias only problem in 2024 is choking. Not taking on any opposition. India has done tremendously well in tournaments since 2011. Two WC finals , Two WC semi finals ,Then two CT finals. A team thst is remarkably consistent cannot be taken lightly. This categorical assessment will stay as hypothesis
jnaveen1980
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If Ashwin chucks then you can call Shane Warne chuck lol
Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH
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I didnt know warne was an off spinner.
jnaveen1980
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Precisely. Calling Ashwin chucker is equivalent to calling Warne a chucker.
The OP is insinuating that. I am just deducing.So you think this era is the best as far as Test cricket is concerned.
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I dont think that a leg spinner can be a chucker
jnaveen1980
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Not 100%. It is not impossible.
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Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH
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Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH
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Whose Qasim by the way???.
jnaveen1980
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How are they oranges and apples. Both are bowlers. Both are spinners. You are calling a legitimate action chucking. IN that regard they are both the same.
You may not know this but Lara desperately tried to play in any T20 Franchise that would hire him many yrs after he retired ... tried getting into IPL in 2010 but nobody bothered... he tried Surrey ... same outcome ... he then played some random t20 league in Zimbabwe lol. He did play in the now defunct ICL league for Mumbai Champs and guess what his avg was ? 6.5
So much for ... he could have played on if he wanted and all that jaz.
You proved absolutely nothing about Imran. Instead I proved to you that Tendulkar the bowler Competed very well in his weaker skill of bowling with Imran. That is the end Of story and note I did not Even have to use fielding which would pretty much decimate Imran.
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Thread is not about Ashwin or chucking. Please stay on topic.
Auto correct for some reason changed Waqar to Qasim
jeeteshssaxena
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For me Sachin Tendulkar is the second most complete batsman the game of cricket has ever seen, first will always be Bradman, there is no one of his stature and ability.
Lara and Sachin are ATG batters but as some posters correctly pointed out, Sachin's away average in 90s was 57 and Lara's was 44, how is that even a comparison? Sachin was definitely better than Lara, less attractive shotmaker for sure but quality wise he was better.
Ponting is nowhere near Lara let alone Tendulkar, I dont know why posters here (including Indians) put Ponting on a pedestal, he was the biggest beneficiary of the flat deck era in the noughties, his performance in the 90s was at an avg of 44 and str rate if 49, that is Salim Malik level, nothing more.
Ponting, unlike Lara and Tendulkar had many weaknesses, he was average against spin and lateral movement, he was basically Australian version of Kohli in tests, in ODI's again he is nowhere near both Kohli and Tendulkar as evidenced by his stats and ratings. This idiotic reasoning that he won three cups so he should be rated ahead of everyone does not stand true in other scenarios, like comparing Yuvraj with ABD etc etc.
Ponting, Sangakkara, Jaques Kallis are the biggest beneficiaries of 2000s flat deck era.
Kallis averaged 41 in the 90s, Ponting averaged 44 (and this after 30+ tests), how are they even comparable to Lara, let alone Tendulkar?
Lara and Sachin are ATG batters but as some posters correctly pointed out, Sachin's away average in 90s was 57 and Lara's was 44, how is that even a comparison? Sachin was definitely better than Lara, less attractive shotmaker for sure but quality wise he was better.
Ponting is nowhere near Lara let alone Tendulkar, I dont know why posters here (including Indians) put Ponting on a pedestal, he was the biggest beneficiary of the flat deck era in the noughties, his performance in the 90s was at an avg of 44 and str rate if 49, that is Salim Malik level, nothing more.
Ponting, unlike Lara and Tendulkar had many weaknesses, he was average against spin and lateral movement, he was basically Australian version of Kohli in tests, in ODI's again he is nowhere near both Kohli and Tendulkar as evidenced by his stats and ratings. This idiotic reasoning that he won three cups so he should be rated ahead of everyone does not stand true in other scenarios, like comparing Yuvraj with ABD etc etc.
Ponting, Sangakkara, Jaques Kallis are the biggest beneficiaries of 2000s flat deck era.
Kallis averaged 41 in the 90s, Ponting averaged 44 (and this after 30+ tests), how are they even comparable to Lara, let alone Tendulkar?
Vikram1989
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May be auto correct knows both are nobodies against good teams
Hitman
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Shhh .... don't say anything. When did facts ever mean anything to Pakistani posters when it comes to Sachin Tendulkar? Things like facts, stats, numbers can take a hike for them when it comes to Sachin Tendulkar. Same is the case with opinions of former cricketers and cricket pundits. Every single list of greatest cricketers and All Time XI's were influenced by the BCCI paying off those highly credible people of the game who created them.
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No personal remarks please.
Hitman
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The only neutral and non biased people in the world with a valid opinion on Sachin Tendulkar are Pakistani cricket fans.
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