mominsaigol
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2003 west indies beats 2024 India. First have 2024 India beat a team that can't make it to CT.
Also not the same Australia. Different squad, some players are missing
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Did Sachin Tendulkar play against average teams or all-time great teams?
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Also not the same Australia. Different squad, some players are missing
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This thread is about Sacin, Guys.
Talk about him only. No need to bring world cup and team comparisons here now.
Talk about him only. No need to bring world cup and team comparisons here now.
jnaveen1980
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2003 west indies beats 2024 India. First have 2024 India beat a team that can't make it to CT.
Also not the same Australia. Different squad, some players are missing
What missing? Mcgrath played 6 of the 7 ODIs. They lost 3 of them. INfact Gayle took 5 wicket haul lol India destroyed Srilanka for 50 runs 51 runs in the games that mattered. This is a bilateral with no significance. You are trying to keep narrowing window, providing excpetion to glorify Australia lol If it is an all conquering side then they have no business losing to anyone.
jnaveen1980
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Actually purpose of this thread was in relation to "Australia 2003 vs Australia 2024". By proving AUstralia 2003 ODI is better than Australia 2024 T20 I side , they can say India 2024 T20I side will be thrashed by Australia 2003 ODI side". This is an indirect way ot putting down achievements of Indian team in 2024 by mixing formats. Everyone knows Australia did not win world T20 until 2022. That is why it is getting more and more comical.
mominsaigol
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If india is all powerful, have them beat sri lanka that can't make ct.
In Australia they didn't have martyn, Bevan etc and they won a series against a team that is significantly > 2024 sri lanka.
Speaking of 2023, who won wc again? In their own home den? On their own curated pitches?
SRT's biggest trump card in the pantheon of greats is his longevity and consistency. He was a certified great batter for nearly 20 years (1992- 2011) giving his team 50+ avg output over this time frame. Typically a great batter gives 8-12 yrs max of such output.
Over a such a long career things tend to even out a lot and its hard to make any generalizations.
For e.g. its a lazy generalization that SRT dominated bowlers of 90s who are universally acclaimed to be better than 00s bowlers thus he is better than Ponting, Kallis
This is true to a good extent. In 1990s, he faced some good attacks on bowling friendly wickets in a few series (WI in mid 90s away , Pak 99 home, Aus in 92 and 99 away, SA 96 and 01 away) and did quite well in nearly all these challenging series. He also faced some just ok attacks on true wickets which are very comparable with 00s attacks like WI in India 93 (Walsh, Cuffy, Benjamin); Eng 96 (Cork, Lewis, Mullally, Min Patel) and made good amount of hay in sunshine.
SRT was also beneficiary of getting a favourable Asia and home heavy schedule in 2007-11 in his advancing age (34-38) where he had a second wind and averaged 60+ over a 40 test time frame. To his credit in this phase he did well against 2 good attacks in away series (Aus 2008 and SA 2011) but a significant amount of confidence and self reinforcement was built up by pounding attacks on flatties at home in this mini era. The likes of a Kohli will not get such gift home pitches at age of 35-36 to help them push their averages up with teams focused on maximizing results at home.
SRT also did not face the peak of DRS era and its impact on lbw rulings. Kohli gets flak for his Eng record (1 great series plus 2 poor series) but SRT made 5 trips to Eng and every series bar the last he got fairly average attacks on mostly reasonable wkts. SRT did not also regularly face the Saffer green mambas that they have been dishing out for India since 2018 where 400 runs match total is enough to win a test.
Over a such a long career things tend to even out a lot and its hard to make any generalizations.
For e.g. its a lazy generalization that SRT dominated bowlers of 90s who are universally acclaimed to be better than 00s bowlers thus he is better than Ponting, Kallis
This is true to a good extent. In 1990s, he faced some good attacks on bowling friendly wickets in a few series (WI in mid 90s away , Pak 99 home, Aus in 92 and 99 away, SA 96 and 01 away) and did quite well in nearly all these challenging series. He also faced some just ok attacks on true wickets which are very comparable with 00s attacks like WI in India 93 (Walsh, Cuffy, Benjamin); Eng 96 (Cork, Lewis, Mullally, Min Patel) and made good amount of hay in sunshine.
SRT was also beneficiary of getting a favourable Asia and home heavy schedule in 2007-11 in his advancing age (34-38) where he had a second wind and averaged 60+ over a 40 test time frame. To his credit in this phase he did well against 2 good attacks in away series (Aus 2008 and SA 2011) but a significant amount of confidence and self reinforcement was built up by pounding attacks on flatties at home in this mini era. The likes of a Kohli will not get such gift home pitches at age of 35-36 to help them push their averages up with teams focused on maximizing results at home.
SRT also did not face the peak of DRS era and its impact on lbw rulings. Kohli gets flak for his Eng record (1 great series plus 2 poor series) but SRT made 5 trips to Eng and every series bar the last he got fairly average attacks on mostly reasonable wkts. SRT did not also regularly face the Saffer green mambas that they have been dishing out for India since 2018 where 400 runs match total is enough to win a test.
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Topic is Sachin. But he is seen nowhere atm. The whole thread has shifted towards a comparison of players and teams etc etc.
mominsaigol
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Oo well lookie here, guess who agreed to 2003 > 2024 Australia earlier, amd guess who screenshotted and quoted it
jnaveen1980
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India didn't have Bumrah, Jadeja, Shami, Jaiswal?
mominsaigol
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And? They had 3 of em in the final, What happened their?
jnaveen1980
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That is the line of your argument. India curated pitch in England to finish top of the table in 2019/ top of the table in their group in 2015?Oo well lookie here, guess who agreed to 2003 > 2024 Australia earlier, amd guess who screenshotted and quoted it
Bhaijaan
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It’s 2024.
It’s been a decade and more since he retired.
You don’t have a cricketer half his stature. He’s the greatest of all time.
It’s been a decade and more since he retired.
You don’t have a cricketer half his stature. He’s the greatest of all time.
jnaveen1980
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Toss decided the match? plus INdia choked themselves. THey got the revenge in world T20.And? They had 3 of em in the final, What happened their?
mominsaigol
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No, you already know the line of my argument, argument ended the moment you agreed to 2003 Australia drubbing 20024 Australia.
Everything beyond this point is meaningless. India's batting would collapse lower then their 102 score if they faced classic Australia with their crapn2024 line up.
You're obsessively hung up on bowling when it wouldn't be a factor thanks to their fragile batting line-up as we saw against sri lanka.
Where was india when it got drubbed by England in 2019 and drubbed by NZ, What happened in 2015 when Australia showed them their aukaat in the semi's.
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jnaveen1980
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Where was Australia in 2011 world cup? lol GOt owned by India right? Where was AUstralia in 2019? Got owned by INdia right? You basically choose a period where AUstralia never lost and India did not win while ignoring all the wins they achieved. You totally ignored 2007 whoppage, 2011 whoppage, 2019 whoppage. Then 2001 test series pownage. Then India running them ragged in 2004/05 series where they were chasing 700 . Dude Australia did get their competition even in 2000s. Sure they will get in 2024.
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jnaveen1980
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It was started for a differnet purpose. Now it has become a cesspool lol
Bhaijaan
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It’s enjoyable.
It pains them so much that we have The Tendulkar and their greatest batsman ever Miandad won’t make our All Time team in any format.
Javed Miandad is not fit to tie Sachin’s shoe laces even on his finest flat pitch day in Karachi with two Pakistani umpires there to protect the lbw.
Imran is a midget in front of Tendulkar in cricketing stature. Tendulkar was 24 years older when Wisden already rated him higher than Imran lol.
mominsaigol
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Do you wish to let this argument rest now? We can agree to disagree and leave it at that. We're once again shuffling time periods and now it's devolving to all of India across history vs All of Australia across history.
Australia is my favourite team so i will do my best to argue for it, but it's clear India is yours and you'll do the same for your team.
My main gripes were people trying to educate me on 2024 Australia when 2024 Australia isn't even close to 2015. And my other main gripe was the whole regional bias thing but if I comment in Sachin it doesn't even I'm an inner pakistani spreading hate, I don't even live in pakistan and haven't in years lol, I have no interest in that bankrupt nation lol.
You already agreed with 2024 Australia and 2003 Australia so I don't feel the need to continue. Everything after that has been banter lol.
Australia is my favourite team so i will do my best to argue for it, but it's clear India is yours and you'll do the same for your team.
My main gripes were people trying to educate me on 2024 Australia when 2024 Australia isn't even close to 2015. And my other main gripe was the whole regional bias thing but if I comment in Sachin it doesn't even I'm an inner pakistani spreading hate, I don't even live in pakistan and haven't in years lol, I have no interest in that bankrupt nation lol.
You already agreed with 2024 Australia and 2003 Australia so I don't feel the need to continue. Everything after that has been banter lol.
Also apologises if you're getting irritated. Have a good day.
jnaveen1980
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Tendulkar is in ATG XI of almost all the experts in both formats. So i don't indulge in that argument much as facts cannot be distorted with lies. But this dissing of current Indian out of jealousy is what i am trying to reason with.
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Stay on topic guys.
mominsaigol
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No one disagrees on him being in an atg 11. However claiming 2024 India > 2003 Australia is the wildest argument I've ever heard
. Besides India the entire planet would disagree, Freaking people in China and the Maldives would disagree.
Has nothing to do with pakiatani people
mominsaigol
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Pakistan khaan sei aya in an aussie thread
jnaveen1980
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Peace. I have great respect for that Australian side. Always a poineer in bazball type of approach. Also possibly the best fielding unit Australia ever produced. Leadership, Coaching were ahead of time. Taylor -> Steve waugh -> Ponting -> Clarke. Transition was seamless for them. A reason why I rate Laxman above some of his contemporaries is because he made over 2000 runs against that Australian side. Nobody made that many runs during that period against them. So i do respect them. but did they have weaknesses? Yes they did. But nobody was good enough to exploit. They won matches which they could have lost like against England, NZ in the 2003 world cup. Bichel with his tail end contribution completely changed 2 of those games. In helpful conditions Australian batting got completely butchered. They were mentally strong. But they were not without their own weaknesses. Their mental strength kept them in good stead. If only South Africa had the same mental strength they would have been the ATG team of 2000s. For instance in 2007 world cup Australia made 377. South Africa raced to 160/0 in 20 overs with ABDV taking their bowling apart. He hit Mcgrath's first 3 balls for 3 consecutive fours. Then as usual our AB found weird way to get out. He was run out. Then Graeme smith got retired not out quickly. Then the chase got derailed.
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No irrelevant Posts please.
What’s wrong with other batsmen getting better? Some are late bloomers, some get going immediately. Some like Lara let the fame dictate their lifestyle, decline and then refocus.
What your post reads to me is I don’t want to posts the stats that makes others look better than Tendulkar?
DeadlyVenom
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A cricket half his stature would be a very tiny man indeed.
Bhaijaan
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Indeed. That’s how tiny Imran Khan is to Sachin in cricket.
DeadlyVenom
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Oh I thought you were talking about height
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If that's what you took out of the post, great!
Imran was a greater cricketer than Tendulkar. Obviously Tendulkar edged him in batting. But overall cricketer, no contest.
Full disclosure. Kapil Paaji was a greater cricketer than Tendulkar too.
mominsaigol
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These Indian posters will gang up and try to eat you and bring in regional racism to justify and attack an opinion lol.
Regardless I disagree, I think Sachin is a greater cricketer then IK, but I don't think Sachin is a GOD.
If he was a God of cricket, the God of cricket would not turn into a meek human when facing mcgrath in the final of 2003.
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well i think Kapil Dev was the best leader but if u compare him wth sachin as a player so obviouly Sachin Tendulkar is miles ahead who has won number of matches independently for India... if u want to counter this argument so just looks at his stats!
mominsaigol
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Agreed
But are they more skillful? Which spinner of today is as skillful as Warne or Murali? Which fast bowler is as skillful as wasim?
He is worse than Lara but better than Kallis or Sangakara or Ponting.
I have no problem with someone saying Sachin was a better batsman than Imran. Obviously
The term “cricketer” encompasses a whole lot more
Imran obviously was a better bowler. Imran was a better batsman than Sachin a bowler and Imran was also an ATG captain.
Sachin was a failed captain. Sachin didn’t really display much knowledge about the strategic aspects of cricket. He was just a guy who loved batting.
There really is no comparison as a “cricketer”.
This is also why I place Kapil ahead of Tendulkar as a “cricketer”
That is the problem. You somehow picked some views of a random poster and conviniently hoisted it on every One else for obvious reasons.
DeadlyVenom
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100% spot on.
A long time ago I floated a thread on PP that said you really shouldn't be considered an ATG unless you were a captain for a significant part of your career.
Many disagreed and in the end I accepted it. Warne was used as an example by others.
But overall part of me still thinks that captaincy elevates players to another level. The whole team, style of play and cricketing era for your nation becomes yours.
Sachin never had this.
Sachin was just an accumulater
Sorry but Imran the bowler and fielder is NOT as far ahead of Tendulkar the bowler and fielder as is Tendulkar the batsman is ahead of Imran.
People tend to forget that Tendulkar has 200 international wkts to his name and the difference in the ODI wkts tally between Imran and Tendulkar is just 28 wkts even though Tendulkar was a part timer.
Besides that there is simply no comparison to the mind boggling records that Tendulkar holds ... 200 tests 100 hundreds first man to score a odi double etc etc.
For perspective... Imran made a grand total of about 7500 international runs ... Tendulkar made those many in the last 6 years of his career when everyone had written him off due to injuries. Thats the sort of ownage that Tendulkar inflicts.
Imran Khans entire legacy is from that 92 WC Win and we all know how lucky he was. No such issues for Tendulkar. Truly a mega legend.
Kids, kids, kids.
All they remember is 92. 92 was just the icing on the cake for Imran. Before that, he was an ATG bowler and arguably GOAT Allrounder (or at least in the top 2) and ATG captain.
Sachin and I mean this in all seriousness is not even half the cricketer Imran was.
It’s not even close. Sachin was never considered an allrounder. His bowling was sorry to say a bit of a joke. Just watch him bowl!
And his captaincy ended in humilitation.
Argue all you want about Tendulkar as a batsman (although I can destroy that quite easily too) but I grant you he has merit as a batsman. But he was nowhere near an ATG “cricketer”.
And just to highlight the point about Imran’s greatness as a bowler: He has the 3rd highest bowling ranking of all time with 922 ahead of Murali, ahead of McGrath, ahead of Warne. Tendulkar never passed 900 in his whole career.
Imran’s peak was phenomenal.
Love these Tendulkar debates on PP... 2024 and bossman is still the talk of the town. Takes me back to year 2013 when every other thread used to be about Sachin. Good to see He is still going strong....Easily the greatest of all time.
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Your own countrymen don't give a rats tail about anything else he achieved .... and its not like he won Test series in WI and Aus and if I recall Correctly he even lost a Test to the Minnows of his time: SL.
Yet he has comparable wkts to Imran in ODIs. Thanks for validating my point lol
If captaincy was a criteria for judging ATG worthiness then we would have to leave out a huge number of extraordinary players from contention.
As it stands Imran does not even make the cut to many prestigious World XI including Bradmans XI as a bowler he was completely outshadowed by many bowlers like Marshall, Lillee etc.
And I see you conveniently ignored the ODI Wkts and the volume of runs made in just the LAST 6 yrs of Tendulkars career?
To summarize... the magnitude and volume of Cricketing achievements accomplished by Tendulkar are soo outrageous that you have to literally pretend that Imran played twice as many matches as he did and multiply his stats by a factor of 2 for you to be able to make a meaningful comparison ... thats the sort of gap that you are trying hard to pretend that it doesn't exist lol
Lets not even talk about fielding lol
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ODI bowling? The little M took less wickets in 3 times as many matches and almost twice as bad average. Get out of here!
Send someone a bit better than yourself to debate this. This is an insult.
Calm down and you Might want to first learn how to read cricket stats ... look at the number of balls bowled to get those wkts and the number of innings. Its not too far away from Imrans ODI bowling numbers lol
Suleiman
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Tendulkar is the best marketed yet most overrated cricketer in history.
probably the funniest post in this thread.
Same poster will critisize Pakistani players when it comes to rankings and ICC awards, but all of a sudden when the thread is anti tendu, the rankings are not relevent.
Talk about shifting goalposts....
I even qualified my statement in the beginning saying it’s not always an ideal metric!
It is still quite staggering that tendu never crossed 900. Look at all ATG, nearly every one of them has crossed 900 in their discipline. Tendulkar is an outlier here for sure!
It is one aspect and it pretty much confirms my hypotheses about him. No one is saying he wasn’t a great. He was obviously due to his longevity and maintaining a particular standard over a great length of time. But he never reached the peak others did. He was a great workmanlike player who accumulated a lot of runs. Much in the mould of Jacques Kallis.
If people want to leave it at that, I would agree with them and fight their corner. Just leave out the hyperbole.
And another note: I only used Test rankings, not Mickey Mouse ODI and T20 rankings that can yoyo around with so many pointless bilateral games with teams rotating, resting players. Test rankings especially 80s, 90s, 2000s (and tbf even current day to an extent) meant something cos you had teams putting out their strongest XI.
mominsaigol
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It's because the argument is different.
Sachin is overhyped to the moon by Indians who put him at chuck norris levels of folklore.
The thing about Sachin is that longevity wise he remained consistent for 24 years and was always in the top 5 range consistently scoring all over the world. However their were many periods were batters were superior to him.
He wasnt always the best and even sehwag outperformed him on many occasions. However many players like pointing, kallis, miandad, Kohli etc etc had periods of domination but would fizzle out in later years, whereas Sachin had consistency.
However Indians view him as some goat of cricket who's basically a God, well news flash, the God was turned into a human in the 2003 final lol.
But regardless theirs no denying that Sachin is an ATG and was a top tier batter.
Rizwan and babar are not 1 and 2 by any metric in the era that they are in. And statements like babar is the greatest pakiatani batter of all time is just laughable.
Nikhil_cric
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I agree with this. He was a unique player who played so long that it's difficult to compare with others. In Test cricket, he never peaked like a Ponting but Ponting was literally a GOAT batsman from 1999/00 season to 2006/07 season. He was only decent to good outside of that period. SRT had a late career resurgence from 2007 - 2011 and was averaging 57 in Test cricket in early 2011 at nearly 38 years of age.
It was in ODI's that he was peerless for a long period. He had longevity and was the most impactful batsman for nearly a decade and then continued to be a good run scorer for another 8-9 years.
There's simply no other batter has played so long across formats and had enough impact in both and for as long.
Nikhil_cric
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Wasim Akram didn't. Peak rating of only 830. Such an overrated bowler.
Hitman
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Both Ian Botham and Kapil Dev are way ahead of Wasim Akram as bowlers in that list by ICC.
mominsaigol
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In the list by ICC Babar is ahead of Sachin. That list isn't a metric
DeadlyVenom
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Not many Pakistanis worship Wasim Akram and go to battle for him the way you guys do for Tendulkar.
He is one of the best bowlers ever. Not THE best bowlers.
Your man is supposedly THE best and the GOD of cricket.
When you are the ultimate god you should be dominating all metrics. Tendulkar only dominates the ones that are related to number of matches played and random ones Indians like to make up when moving the goalposts.
So the ICC list isn't the be all and end all but it is area where it shows Tendulkars limitations in conjunction with other stats that also show it.
Nikhil_cric
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I'm not sure what this is supposed to do with what I posted. The poster I quoted said that it was unusual for ATG's to not make it to 900 points.
And I put forth an example of an ATG who was well short of that mark.
If peak rating points were the most important metric, then Marnus Labuschagne is already one of the greatest batters ever.
Tendulkar had his limitations. No doubt about it.
But that does not take anything away from the all format batter that he was.
jnaveen1980
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Peak rating is one of the most fraudulent metric lol One can score a 350, 400 in one series get to that rating. Lara himself has mentioned that he wanted to be more consistent rather than scoring one big 100 and missing for next few matches. This guy saved us with bat in Tests, won Tests, won ODIs, saves us with bowling as well. In the famous Eden Gardens Test he took 3 crucial wickets in the 2nd dig. Then he saved a few matches by bowling clutch overs. He never had to bowl. But he did his part. He was an outstanding outfielder. He went beyond and above. Pretty much the savior during the fixing saga. One of the best all condition player in history. There is a reason why Tendulkar is celebrated as god by Indians. He was a prodigy who lived completely upto expectations. Not sure why so much heart burn. Some of his knocks in the 90s were ridiculous. Not ordinary players can play like him. Those straight backfoot punch through cover. Richie Benaud knows more about cricket than these fans. Insane following from youngsters. I am not talking about Indian youngsters. Australian young kids were cheering 18 year old Scahin in his very first series. He made an instant impact in world cricket. Within no time he signed up contract for 26 crores became the biggest brand. Dare i say BCCI's influence started picking up after Sachin's arrival.
India's economic rise coincided with career of Sachin Tendulkar: Media
"India's victory in the World Cup was not just a story about cricket. It was an economic success story as much as a cricketing one," Ed Smith wrote in 'The Times'.
Sachin Tendulkar: Indian master who symbolised the country's rise
An icon for a nation, Sachin Tendulkar embodied the rise of a new India, with cricket helping to revive its fortunes
www.bbc.com
People have utterly no clue about the stature of Sachin in the 90s. He was near untouchable height. Toss your stats and filters into dustbin. He was a phenomenon when he started. Ended his career as a phenomenon with 100 centuries. Highest run getter in Tests. Highest century maker in ODI. Highest run getter in ICC world cups. Lived through two generations . Dominated in various phases. The more you attempt to shove down the theory "sachin was ordinary" more it will be laughed at. I am not joking. Without Sachin cricket was dead in India in the 90s. That guy singlehandedly lifted the image of India at all levels.
Cricket commericalization started with Sachin. All the Kohlis and even Babar that enjoy these commercialization was due to this guy.
DeadlyVenom
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"Throw your stats in the bin, Sachin played for 20 years and had lots of fans"
jnaveen1980
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Non-Pak fans and Pak fans are 180 degree opposite on this. Neither can convince each other. Non-Pak fans don't have to as they vastly outnumber pak fans.
Nikhil_cric
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I don't know about fraudulent metric but even someone like Allan Border/Steve Waugh didn't make it to 900 points but Marnus has.Peak rating is one of the most fraudulent metric lol One can score a 350, 400 in one series get to that rating. Lara himself has mentioned that he wanted to be more consistent rather than scoring one big 100 and missing for next few matches. This guy saved us with bat in Tests, won Tests, won ODIs, saves us with bowling as well. In the famous Eden Gardens Test he took 3 crucial wickets in the 2nd dig. Then he saved a few matches by bowling clutch overs. He never had to bowl. But he did his part. He was an outstanding outfielder. He went beyond and above. Pretty much the savior during the fixing saga. One of the best all condition player in history. There is a reason why Tendulkar is celebrated as god by Indians. He was a prodigy who lived completely upto expectations. Not sure why so much heart burn. Some of his knocks in the 90s were ridiculous. Not ordinary players can play like him. Those straight backfoot punch through cover. Richie Benaud knows more about cricket than these fans. Insane following from youngsters. I am not talking about Indian youngsters. Australian young kids were cheering 18 year old Scahin in his very first series. He made an instant impact in world cricket. Within no time he signed up contract for 26 crores became the biggest brand. Dare i say BCCI's influence started picking up after Sachin's arrival.
India's economic rise coincided with career of Sachin Tendulkar: Media
"India's victory in the World Cup was not just a story about cricket. It was an economic success story as much as a cricketing one," Ed Smith wrote in 'The Times'.economictimes.indiatimes.com
Sachin Tendulkar: Indian master who symbolised the country's rise
An icon for a nation, Sachin Tendulkar embodied the rise of a new India, with cricket helping to revive its fortuneswww.bbc.com
People have utterly no clue about the stature of Sachin in the 90s. He was near untouchable height. Toss your stats and filters into dustbin. He was a phenomenon when he started. Ended his career as a phenomenon with 100 centuries. Highest run getter in Tests. Highest century maker in ODI. Highest run getter in ICC world cups. Lived through two generations . Dominated in various phases. The more you attempt to shove down the theory "sachin was ordinary" more it will be laughed at. I am not joking. Without Sachin cricket was dead in India in the 90s. That guy singlehandedly lifted the image of India at all levels.
Cricket commericalization started with Sachin. All the Kohlis and even Babar that enjoy these commercialization was due to this guy.
Poster was confidently saying that it was unusual for ATG batters/ bowlers to not make 900 points . It's not.
jnaveen1980
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That metric cannot be used to judge the career of a player. Lot of guys can have a great peak and suck on either side of the peak. Smith is at no.2 in that list. But if you ask them they will say current Australian unit is a garbage unit. Pat cummins and Mcgrath both reached 914 points. But Cummins somehow is a garbage bowler . This is the hypocrisy one has to talk about.
RexRex
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SRT must have passed 900 points in that 1998-99 phase of his career which was his peak.
Nikhil_cric
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He peaked at 898
jnaveen1980
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One example is Mitchell Starc. His highest ODI ranking is 783. Warne's highest ranking 787 in ODI. Maninder rating is 851 lol
mominsaigol
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You mean indian fans only.
Throw as many player interviews, it doesn't matter. Anil kumble has listed rizwan as top 3 players on the world lol. Some west indian cricketers think gayle is best ever in every format it's meaningless to pick and choose.
Almost every person on the planet views him more of an emotion that's exaggerated by bolyywood media. Most people respect him and admire him but unless you have BCCI scrutinising ex players via ipl contracts and forced statements on media the universal concensus is that he was a terrific player.
But he isn't a God that's superior in every single metric, he gets longevity pounts, was consistently top tier for 24 years, but you guys give him folklore status.
No player since bradman has achieved that. Bradman was the only player in his era who with the exception of his final game was top scorer in every game, top average in every game, fastest century at that time, Fastest to whatever runs he scored, and even during the body line era his 55 avg was still superior to any player In the camp including England players who didn't have to deal qoth aussoe players bazzballing them.
Sachin on the other hand got outperformed by sehwag in the final, Got outperformed by many players in 2011 so much so that he wasn't factor in 2011 final, his first games at 16, Sachin via his own admission claimed he wasnt use to the pace and struggled immensely before taking a few games to get use to it.
Sachin himself doesn't think he's as hyped as indian fans hype him to be, your hero would probs be embrassed to see such statements being made about him by you.
Hitman
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The list is never ending. But I'd like to list just 3. Were they influenced by BCCI and IPL as well?
1. https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/...ayer-in-espncricinfo-all-time-world-xi-482936
2. https://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/24640224
3. https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/murali-misses-out-in-benaud-s-greatest-xi-135375
Nikhil_cric
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I think around 87, 88 Maninder had a slew of great ODI performances lol
Hitman
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Still remember a long time ago before 2010, when Ian Botham made his list of his greatest sporting heroes. He was asked about Imran Khan, and his exact response was, 'No, not him. Wasn't good enough'. I remember PP exploded abusing Botham, and trying to justify how he wasn't good enough to lace Imran's boots. 
It's blasphemy on PP to not consider him the GOAT all rounder, and probably the 2nd greatest cricketer ever.
It's blasphemy on PP to not consider him the GOAT all rounder, and probably the 2nd greatest cricketer ever.
Well that’s a good point. And I’ve said skill-wise wasim is probably the most skilful. However, we can’t get away from the fact that he underachieved. He never had the peaks of Waqar or Imran.
Doesn’t make him a bad bowler or not a great - like I said with Sachin. The difference is Pakistan fans are perfectly comfortable saying Wasim wasn’t the GOAT. I’ve even said in terms of greatness that McGrath and Marshall are greater.
Personally for me the greatest pak bowler ever was Imran, not Wasim or Waqar.
Wasim’s legend is based on how skilful he was, and his iconic performances in finals such as WC92, Asian test championship final etc etc.
Err yea, there’s no love lost between Imran and Botham. They even fought a court case so Botham’s opinion is hardly surprising!Still remember a long time ago before 2010, when Ian Botham made his list of his greatest sporting heroes. He was asked about Imran Khan, and his exact response was, 'No, not him. Wasn't good enough'. I remember PP exploded abusing Botham, and trying to justify how he wasn't good enough to lace Imran's boots.
It's blasphemy on PP to not consider him the GOAT all rounder, and probably the 2nd greatest cricketer ever.
May also have something to do with Imran flattening Botham many times in his career when they billed allrounder bs allrounder.
Yes, and they’re different players. No one will ever say Border or Waugh were skilful or stylish batsmen. They were gritty and had a never say die attitude.
Marnus’s peak is higher.
Nikhil_cric
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There is only 1 cricketer who can probably lay claim to the indisputable GOAT/GOD status and that's actually McGrath.Still remember a long time ago before 2010, when Ian Botham made his list of his greatest sporting heroes. He was asked about Imran Khan, and his exact response was, 'No, not him. Wasn't good enough'. I remember PP exploded abusing Botham, and trying to justify how he wasn't good enough to lace Imran's boots.
It's blasphemy on PP to not consider him the GOAT all rounder, and probably the 2nd greatest cricketer ever.
Incredible longevity and effectiveness in both formats. Great record in World Cups. A terrific Ashes record, record in Asia , dismissed the top batters in each lineup etc.
After that it's all debatable.
Hitman
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Please don't blame WISDEN, Cricinfo, and all the lists prepared by highly credible people of the game that rated Imran below the top 10 and behind a certain Indian whom you abhor the most. Please learn to live with it. I mean the world doesn't work according to your whims and fancies.
Nikhil_cric
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What does style have to do with status ? Is there an exception clause for gritty players?
Miandad also never reached 900 points, lower than even Sachin in fact.
Should we excuse the fact that he didn't because he was a tough , gritty street fighter?
Hitman
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Absolutely. The GOAT in every metric of bowling. No one could could stand shoulder to shoulder to Glenn McGrath.
Hitman
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His fantabulous average of 29 against the best team of his era, the West Indies is a testimony.
Nah, that Aus series he was facing the likes of Adam Dale and Kasprowicz
Nikhil_cric
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