Turkey condemns 'vile' Sweden Quran-burning protest

[SalimBhai]

There is no law anywhere in europe where you can t question/ ridicule religion. Any religion. And religion should be open to ridicule like any other ideology. And if your sentiments are hurt so be it.

 

[KingKhanWC]

You never provide evidence. A bit rich coming from you

Hilarious coming from a guy who has made false claims against a poster or in other words a complete lie.

Im still waiting for you to prove where I stated there IS A LAW against Jewish ....

Interesting the SO CALLED FREEDOM OF SPEECH NATION has banned an Anti-Nato rally lol.

Some clown in the rally wanted to burn a Quran, so Sweden thought it would help them beg Turkey for Nato to claim they stopped the Quran burning. This country is so clueless just like its daft defenders

 

[KingKhanWC]

Ok. I will ask again can you provide where you got that Jews and Indian love money more than others groups. This I believe is all made up in your mind. You just made it up to please your narrative . No truth to it. Otherwise you would have provided it by now. This other person I asked please name the 12 Jewish families. Also nothing. Not a word. Also all made up. You guys are the sheep. It’s hilarious.

Try the Torah.... Jews are allowed to charge interest to others but not to their own, this itself proves they love to make money off others via interest.. Please educate yourself instead of watching Wolf Blitzer on CNN everyday.

 

[SalimBhai]

Hilarious coming from a guy who has made false claims against a poster or in other words a complete lie.

Im still waiting for you to prove where I stated there IS A LAW against Jewish ....

Interesting the SO CALLED FREEDOM OF SPEECH NATION has banned an Anti-Nato rally lol.

Some clown in the rally wanted to burn a Quran, so Sweden thought it would help them beg Turkey for Nato to claim they stopped the Quran burning. This country is so clueless just like its daft defenders

Siri never lied You are the one going on and on about Swedish laws. Once we provided the links and I think so did Robert. You moved the goal post.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Siri never lied You are the one going on and on about Swedish laws. Once we provided the links and I think so did Robert. You moved the goal post.

Siri )

You wrote"The proof has been provided. There is no law against biting the Torah. "

Just point out the post where I stated otherwise? It cant be too hard for you.

 

[Robert]

It is for me besides even if many victims of holocaust were not Jewish it is not beyond being discussed or questioned.

Putting up a cartoon mocking religion is not the same as murdering 13 million people.

The Holocaust can be discussed as an event, but to claim it didn’t happen or was exaggerated is contemptible, no matter who the victims were. That’s what the French law is for. To force France to face this evil chapter in its history.

Nobody can “insult religious text”. You cannot insult a book. Books do not have feelings because they are made of paper. You can insult people, however.

 

[Robert]

Try the Torah.... Jews are allowed to charge interest to others but not to their own, this itself proves they love to make money off others via interest.. Please educate yourself instead of watching Wolf Blitzer on CNN everyday.

As do plenty of Christians and atheists and Arab princes and Russian oligarchs. There is nothing unique about people who are Jewish wanting to make money. Lots of people do and they use interest as a mechanism. Including me with my investments.

 

[Robert]

Hilarious coming from a guy who has made false claims against a poster or in other words a complete lie.

Im still waiting for you to prove where I stated there IS A LAW against Jewish ....

Interesting the SO CALLED FREEDOM OF SPEECH NATION has banned an Anti-Nato rally lol.

Some clown in the rally wanted to burn a Quran, so Sweden thought it would help them beg Turkey for Nato to claim they stopped the Quran burning. This country is so clueless just like its daft defenders

Sweden banned a planned act of Quran-burning by anti-NATO activists.

In other words, they did what you want.

https://rmx.news/sweden/quran-burning-protest-by-anti-nato-activists-banned-by-swedish-authorities/

 

[PakLFC]

Putting up a cartoon mocking religion is not the same as murdering 13 million people.

The Holocaust can be discussed as an event, but to claim it didn’t happen or was exaggerated is contemptible, no matter who the victims were. That’s what the French law is for. To force France to face this evil chapter in its history.

Nobody can “insult religious text”. You cannot insult a book. Books do not have feelings because they are made of paper. You can insult people, however.

Yes of course the USA murdering millions of innocent people is much worse then cartoons. What you need to understand is the USA first doing that then the French or whoever else insulting Islam further infuriates Muslim people. That gives crazy people the perfect opportunity to blow up innocent people.

So murdering innocent Muslim's in the Gulf was a "mistake" but the holocaust can be questioned but not rejected is what you seem to be suggesting, I am no buying this bias for a second. Such attacks on France will continue until they permanently cease mocking Islam and feelings of Muslim people. This is not up for discussion.

You insult the people who believe in those books. Stop playing words games here.

 

[sweep_shot]

Yes of course the USA murdering millions of innocent people is much worse then cartoons. What you need to understand is the USA first doing that then the French or whoever else insulting Islam further infuriates Muslim people. That gives crazy people the perfect opportunity to blow up innocent people.

So murdering innocent Muslim's in the Gulf was a "mistake" but the holocaust can be questioned but not rejected is what you seem to be suggesting, I am no buying this bias for a second. Such attacks on France will continue until they permanently cease mocking Islam and feelings of Muslim people. This is not up for discussion.

You insult the people who believe in those books. Stop playing words games here.

Robert justified nuking of Japan in WW2 because it ended WW2.

He justified American invasion of Afghanistan (he called it "UN-sanctioned ISAF mission").

He even supported American invasion of Iraq and France's burqa ban initially.

Reference: http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...Quran-burning-protest&p=11743837#post11743837.

He has a habit of playing with words and whitewashing western atrocities/blunders.

 

[PakLFC]

Robert justified nuking of Japan in WW2 because it ended WW2.

He justified American invasion of Afghanistan (he called it "UN-sanctioned ISAF mission").

He even supported American invasion of Iraq and France's burqa ban initially.

Reference: http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...Quran-burning-protest&p=11743837#post11743837.

He has a habit of playing with words and whitewashing western atrocities/blunders.

Yes then such people cry like babies when the west is put to the task. They cry when the UK and Europe is bombarded by migrants. He does not understand that these people are victims of western wars, aggression and terrorism where their homes were destroyed by these invaders. He most likely also supports the atrocities perpetrated upon innocent Iraqis at Abu Ghraib prison.

Now that Putin is taking the UK to the cleaners he may gradually begin to understand the pain the UK, USA and Europe has inflicted on others.

 

[Robert]

Yes of course the USA murdering millions of innocent people is much worse then cartoons. What you need to understand is the USA first doing that then the French or whoever else insulting Islam further infuriates Muslim people. That gives crazy people the perfect opportunity to blow up innocent people.

So murdering innocent Muslim's in the Gulf was a "mistake" but the holocaust can be questioned but not rejected is what you seem to be suggesting, I am no buying this bias for a second. Such attacks on France will continue until they permanently cease mocking Islam and feelings of Muslim people. This is not up for discussion.

You insult the people who believe in those books. Stop playing words games here.

Errr.. you know the Holocaust was perpetrated by Nazi Germany, not USA, right?

You do get that Charlie Hebdo is not “France”, right?

I didn’t mention Muslims in the Gulf so don’t know why you have raised that.

It’s very difficult to debate with someone who does not appear to be able to think in straight lines and pulls in unrelated false equivalences..

 

[Robert]

Yes then such people cry like babies when the west is put to the task. They cry when the UK and Europe is bombarded by migrants.

No I don't. You're confusing me with the populist hard right. I'm a radical liberal. I'm also the son of a migrant, married to the daughter of migrants. My best friend is the son of migrants who fled totalitarianism. I welcome all migrants who are prepared to muck in and work to improve my nation. Frankly we need them.

He does not understand that these people are victims of western wars, aggression and terrorism where their homes were destroyed by these invaders.

Yes, I do, and I think it right that aggressor nations should take some refugees. The Dublin Regulation was a positive step - look it up. But then UK left it because of Brexit and thousands of small boats are the result.

He most likely also supports the atrocities perpetrated upon innocent Iraqis at Abu Ghraib prison.

Abu Ghraib is illiberal and should never have existed in the first place.

You clearly have no idea who I am or what I think, so please stop making up stuff like this about me in your head.

Now that Putin is taking the UK to the cleaners he may gradually begin to understand the pain the UK, USA and Europe has inflicted on others.

Putin is not "taking the UK to the cleaners". I see no Russian troops on our streets.

I am well aware of the atrocities perpetrated by Western Empires, thanks. I read books.

What I do is point out the shortcomings in your thinking. So I get called white supremacist, racist, imperialist and so on by people who lack the ability to debate properly.

 

[PakLFC]

Errr.. you know the Holocaust was perpetrated by Nazi Germany, not USA, right?

You do get that Charlie Hebdo is not “France”, right?

I didn’t mention Muslims in the Gulf so don’t know why you have raised that.

It’s very difficult to debate with someone who does not appear to be able to think in straight lines and pulls in unrelated false equivalences..

As far as I know the USA and France are both western countries. It is and was the UK that out of guilt allowed Israel to form a Zionist state and gave India IoK as well, remember?. I am mentioning Muslim's of the Gulf here, not you. Happy?

You can't debate because you support western war's and justify the killing of Muslim's. I have never ever heard you condemn the west for all the atrocities it is historically responsible for.

 

[PakLFC]

No I don't. You're confusing me with the populist hard right. I'm a radical liberal. I'm also the son of a migrant, married to the daughter of migrants. My best friend is the son of migrants who fled totalitarianism. I welcome all migrants who are prepared to muck in and work to improve my nation. Frankly we need them.



Yes, I do, and I think it right that aggressor nations should take some refugees. The Dublin Regulation was a positive step - look it up. But then UK left it because of Brexit and thousands of small boats are the result.



Abu Ghraib is illiberal and should never have existed in the first place.

You clearly have no idea who I am or what I think, so please stop making up stuff like this about me in your head.



Putin is not "taking the UK to the cleaners". I see no Russian troops on our streets.

I am well aware of the atrocities perpetrated by Western Empires, thanks. I read books.

What I do is point out the shortcomings in your thinking. So I get called white supremacist, racist, imperialist and so on by people who lack the ability to debate properly.

Whatever radical liberal means good for you if it makes you happy!. See the point I am making is that is the west would stop bombing other countries then the world would be a much more peaceful place. You may be whatever you claim but from where I am standing you are always pro war.

"But then UK left it because of Brexit and thousands of small boats are the result." So you've been counting have you??. I have a much better idea that the UK should just stop fighting American and Zionist wars all the time, howzat!!? I am afraid these migrants that include many criminals will keep on coming now for there is no way to differentiate between a genuine asylum seeker, criminal or economic migrant.

I see you are pro war in most off your posts hence you have to be corrected by feeling the pain and desperation of other people. Abu Ghraib did exist, you would probably have supported it at the time as well. If you are so anti war and justice loving then out rightly condemn what the west does in the Gulf, subcontinent and Africa as well.

" I am well aware of the atrocities perpetrated by Western Empires, thanks". That is the best thing you have ever said here so we are making progress. You don't know the price the UK has paid for the Russia-Ukraine war?. Your critics here are debating fine I assure you. Take a closer look at home to fight the problem.

 

[Robert]

As far as I know the USA and France are both western countries. It is and was the UK that out of guilt allowed Israel to form a Zionist state and gave India IoK as well, remember?. I am mentioning Muslim's of the Gulf here, not you. Happy?

No, because that makes no sense. Instead of defending your own Holocaust / free speech point with regard to Sweden, you have switched track and are now talking about unrelated matters involving USA, UK and France.

Unless you think the countries of the West are all one single monolithic entity with a mission to be horrible to Muslims? So allowing Quran burning in Sweden is somehow all part of the same continuum as the Crusades, invasion of Iraq, and Syrian Civil War? Is that your point?

You can't debate because you support western war's and justify the killing of Muslim's. I have never ever heard you condemn the west for all the atrocities it is historically responsible for.

This last point is another giant false equivalence. You are make stuff up about me in your head again.
Rather than be intellectually honest and refute my individual points in straight logical lines, you evade and deflect and try to impugne my character in multiple posts.

I refer you to the Pyramid of Debate.

 

[Robert]

Whatever radical liberal means good for you if it makes you happy!. See the point I am making is that is the west would stop bombing other countries then the world would be a much more peaceful place. You may be whatever you claim but from where I am standing you are always pro war.

"But then UK left it because of Brexit and thousands of small boats are the result." So you've been counting have you??. I have a much better idea that the UK should just stop fighting American and Zionist wars all the time, howzat!!? I am afraid these migrants that include many criminals will keep on coming now for there is no way to differentiate between a genuine asylum seeker, criminal or economic migrant.

I see you are pro war in most off your posts hence you have to be corrected by feeling the pain and desperation of other people. Abu Ghraib did exist, you would probably have supported it at the time as well. If you are so anti war and justice loving then out rightly condemn what the west does in the Gulf, subcontinent and Africa as well.

" I am well aware of the atrocities perpetrated by Western Empires, thanks". That is the best thing you have ever said here so we are making progress. You don't know the price the UK has paid for the Russia-Ukraine war?. Your critics here are debating fine I assure you. Take a closer look at home to fight the problem.

This mostly seems to be more ad hominem attacks so I will respond to the one point which is not.

"But then UK left it because of Brexit and thousands of small boats are the result." So you've been counting have you??. I have a much better idea that the UK should just stop fighting American and Zionist wars all the time, howzat!!? I am afraid these migrants that include many criminals will keep on coming now for there is no way to differentiate between a genuine asylum seeker, criminal or economic migrant.

Most of Europe was not involved in the invasion of Iraq which proved to be so destabilising. Yet the EU is accepting millions of Middle Eastern refugees. Germany alone took a million. All EU countries signed the Dublin Regulation to manage acceptance of refugees, sharing the load out.

I have not been counting but others have:

https://www.refugeecouncil.org.uk/l...el-last-year-are-refugees-new-analysis-shows/

UK decided to leave the EU, and the number of boat crossings rose sharply as France no longer bothered to maintain her Calais refugee centre.

 

[PakLFC]

No, because that makes no sense. Instead of defending your own Holocaust / free speech point with regard to Sweden, you have switched track and are now talking about unrelated matters involving USA, UK and France.

Unless you think the countries of the West are all one single monolithic entity with a mission to be horrible to Muslims? So allowing Quran burning in Sweden is somehow all part of the same continuum as the Crusades, invasion of Iraq, and Syrian Civil War? Is that your point?



This last point is another giant false equivalence. You are make stuff up about me in your head again.
Rather than be intellectually honest and refute my individual points in straight logical lines, you evade and deflect and try to impugne my character in multiple posts.

I refer you to the Pyramid of Debate.

What holocaust is mine?? A conversation evolves but what still remains a FACT is that you are a war monger hiding behind being called a liberal whatever that is. This is what the likes of Britain First do insisting that they are not against any community when we all know that is not true.

My point is that if the west and yes it is made up of many countries allows Qur'an burning that extremists will target it. You can not stop this so it is much wiser not to offend over 2 billion people in the name of free speech. If denying the holocaust is a crime the Islamophobia should be as well. That is my point, understood?

All western countries so target Islam that there is no doubt about even if they do not burn the Qur'an. Now I am not saying that there are no extremists in the Muslim community but lets me totally fare and unbiased. The faith if other extremists is never mentioned...when it is a Muslim it takes a second to mention Islam. Lets not pretend otherwise.

You don't know what a debate like most war mongers who say we want peace but in reality you encourage the exact opposite. This is exactly what the Qur'an says about hypocrites like you.

 

[PakLFC]

This mostly seems to be more ad hominem attacks so I will respond to the one point which is not.

"But then UK left it because of Brexit and thousands of small boats are the result." So you've been counting have you??. I have a much better idea that the UK should just stop fighting American and Zionist wars all the time, howzat!!? I am afraid these migrants that include many criminals will keep on coming now for there is no way to differentiate between a genuine asylum seeker, criminal or economic migrant.

Most of Europe was not involved in the invasion of Iraq which proved to be so destabilising. Yet the EU is accepting millions of Middle Eastern refugees. Germany alone took a million. All EU countries signed the Dublin Regulation to manage acceptance of refugees, sharing the load out.

I have not been counting but others have:

https://www.refugeecouncil.org.uk/l...el-last-year-are-refugees-new-analysis-shows/

UK decided to leave the EU, and the number of boat crossings rose sharply as France no longer bothered to maintain her Calais refugee centre.

Clarify what you mean that most of Europe was not involved in the Iraq war? Did Tony Blair not also lie about them having WMD, yes or no?. Yes the west is taking in many refugee's that is nothing in comparison as to how they have looted the region over the centuries.

Are you saying that the influx of migrants is or is not due to the UK leaving the EU?.

 

[Robert]

Clarify what you mean that most of Europe was not involved in the Iraq war? Did Tony Blair not also lie about them having WMD, yes or no?. Yes the west is taking in many refugee's that is nothing in comparison as to how they have looted the region over the centuries.

Are you saying that the influx of migrants is or is not due to the UK leaving the EU?.

Two European nation were involved in the Iraq War - UK and Poland. No other nation from EU or EFTA was involved. Blair tried to pull them in and all said no. See, “the West” isn’t one monolithic unit.

Blair didn’t lie about WMDs as Saddam had already deployed these on the Kurds and Iranians. He misled Parliament by saying that Saddam could somehow deploy these against UK is short order. That was falsehood.

The current boat crossings are largely due to UK leaving the Dublin Regulation, to which it was a signatory as a EU member. Under the Regulation, each signatory agrees to take certain numbers of refugees. The French were doing UK a favour by maintaining their Sangate and later Calais refugee camps of people who want to reach UK, but UK left the EU and the Regulation so the French stopped these and refugee began crossing the Channel in hundreds and later thousands per day.

 

[Robert]

What holocaust is mine?? A conversation evolves but what still remains a FACT is that you are a war monger hiding behind being called a liberal whatever that is. This is what the likes of Britain First do insisting that they are not against any community when we all know that is not true.

My point is that if the west and yes it is made up of many countries allows Qur'an burning that extremists will target it. You can not stop this so it is much wiser not to offend over 2 billion people in the name of free speech. If denying the holocaust is a crime the Islamophobia should be as well. That is my point, understood?

All western countries so target Islam that there is no doubt about even if they do not burn the Qur'an. Now I am not saying that there are no extremists in the Muslim community but lets me totally fare and unbiased. The faith if other extremists is never mentioned...when it is a Muslim it takes a second to mention Islam. Lets not pretend otherwise.

You don't know what a debate like most war mongers who say we want peace but in reality you encourage the exact opposite. This is exactly what the Qur'an says about hypocrites like you.

A liberal believes in personal freedom from authoritarian government - as long as that freedom does not impinge on the freedom of another. So I support democratic systems where freedom is supported (Europe, North America), and rail against authoritarian systems which suppress freedom (Russia, Iran, China).

I am not a warmonger. I believe that freedom must be defended from despots. So I support the democracy of Ukraine against the despot Putin. Bullies like Putin don’t respect dialogue or negotiation, only physical force, which must be deployed against them as a last resort to protect freedom. That’s not warmongering. I call it intelligence, to quote Malcolm X.

Western countries don’t “target Islam”. That’s an oversimplification. The West is not one unit and neither is Islam. There are individual nation states. Since the assassination of Anwar Sadat there had been a rise in nationalist sentiment in the ME which in some cases had been inimitable to some Western business interests. On the other hand Muslim nations such as Indonesia and much of West Africa are not interfered with.

 

[PakLFC]

Two European nation were involved in the Iraq War - UK and Poland. No other nation from EU or EFTA was involved. Blair tried to pull them in and all said no. See, “the West” isn’t one monolithic unit.

Blair didn’t lie about WMDs as Saddam had already deployed these on the Kurds and Iranians. He misled Parliament by saying that Saddam could somehow deploy these against UK is short order. That was falsehood.

The current boat crossings are largely due to UK leaving the Dublin Regulation, to which it was a signatory as a EU member. Under the Regulation, each signatory agrees to take certain numbers of refugees. The French were doing UK a favour by maintaining their Sangate and later Calais refugee camps of people who want to reach UK, but UK left the EU and the Regulation so the French stopped these and refugee began crossing the Channel in hundreds and later thousands per day.

The UK supported and was part of the war in Iraq. Tony Blair has so called apologized for being misinformed about the war many times not that he means it. I know the west is not one but most are always against Muslim's either attacking Islam, the hijab, the prophet(sa) or what not. He clearly lied saying Saddam was about to bomb America or what not.Why was Blair so worried about America in thee first place? It was George Galloway who warned the UK that it could all get out of control like it has done.

You see these refugee's do not understand your rules and regulations. Having spoken to many they insist t the UK supported bombing us so we have every right to be here. They don't care about any signatures at all ace! What is even worse is there is no end to them coming in. France is more then happy to let us take all the burden.

 

[PakLFC]

A liberal believes in personal freedom from authoritarian government - as long as that freedom does not impinge on the freedom of another. So I support democratic systems where freedom is supported (Europe, North America), and rail against authoritarian systems which suppress freedom (Russia, Iran, China).

I am not a warmonger. I believe that freedom must be defended from despots. So I support the democracy of Ukraine against the despot Putin. Bullies like Putin don’t respect dialogue or negotiation, only physical force, which must be deployed against them as a last resort to protect freedom. That’s not warmongering. I call it intelligence, to quote Malcolm X.

Western countries don’t “target Islam”. That’s an oversimplification. The West is not one unit and neither is Islam. There are individual nation states. Since the assassination of Anwar Sadat there had been a rise in nationalist sentiment in the ME which in some cases had been inimitable to some Western business interests. On the other hand Muslim nations such as Indonesia and much of West Africa are not interfered with.

Great! It would be even better is a liberal was against and allowed other people to practice their religion! This is exactly what is happening in the liberal minds at the moment that it's our way or no way. Let us burn the Qur'an and insult the Muslim Prophet(saw) without anyone complaining.

Putin can do whatever he wants. He is right to call out western hypocrisy saying America doesn't even ask when and who it can bomb yet they are lecturing Russia?. Had Ukraine not punched above their weight trying to hammer Putin it would not have got to this stage. What Ukraine wants to do is shut their mouth and sit down otherwise they will be punished even more. After all we live in a "might is right" world. If America can do it then so can Russia and even China against Taiwan as they will.

As mentioned before the rise of the far right in the west in reality is a rise against Islam and Muslim's. This is happening in many western countries including the UK. What the west....yes west as a whole wants is to control Muslim resources. Muslim countries that the west see's as non threatening are left alone.

 

[PakLFC]

America never asks the UN who and when they can bomb any country. Even without UN permission they will do it. This is because the UN is basically America in the first place. There is absolutely nothing wrong when Putin does the same thing by hammering the Ukraine. Hard luck, might is right! Also remember that big daddy China is standing right behind and supporting uncle Putin

 

[PakLFC]

You see the west is used to war's in the lands of coloured people. They like it when Arab's, Afghan's, Pakistanis and African's are suffering. For the first time in modern history we are seeing such a war in the west with heavy chances of it increasing to other parts of western Europe. Now western media is seriously worried and getting a glimpse of what other war victim's go through. Sorry to say this but after a long time white people are victims of war.

 

[Robert]

Great! It would be even better is a liberal was against and allowed other people to practice their religion!

Err…. we do. All religions are allowed to practice in every Western nation.

I’d say the rise of the identitarian fascist right is a response of anything Other - including the EU, Islam, wokeness.

 

[Robert]

You see the west is used to war's in the lands of coloured people. They like it when Arab's, Afghan's, Pakistanis and African's are suffering. For the first time in modern history we are seeing such a war in the west with heavy chances of it increasing to other parts of western Europe. Now western media is seriously worried and getting a glimpse of what other war victim's go through. Sorry to say this but after a long time white people are victims of war.

I think this is fair comment.

 

[SalimBhai]

Err…. we do. All religions are allowed to practice in every Western nation.

I’d say the rise of the identitarian fascist right is a response of anything Other - including the EU, Islam, wokeness.

Where do they not allow people to practice their religion. Can you name one country ? Last I checked it was forbidden to practice religion freely in Saudi Arabia

 

[PakLFC]

Err…. we do. All religions are allowed to practice in every Western nation.

I’d say the rise of the identitarian fascist right is a response of anything Other - including the EU, Islam, wokeness.

Yes they are to an extent. It is also allowed to insult other religions as well. That is the problem that leads to violence. Liberal fascists don't know what their governments do in other countries.

 

[Robert]

Yes they are to an extent. It is also allowed to insult other religions as well. That is the problem that leads to violence. Liberal fascists don't know what their governments do in other countries.

Being free to practice religion doesn’t mean being free to not have people saying nasty things about your religion. Because that would mean you are freer than people not of your religion, and we can’t have some being less free than others. That would be illiberal.

(Before you assert that Christians don’t face that criticism, consider the outcry over the film The Life of Brian and the stage play Jerry Springer - the Musical.)

 

[PakLFC]

Being free to practice religion doesn’t mean being free to not have people saying nasty things about your religion. Because that would mean you are freer than people not of your religion, and we can’t have some being less free than others. That would be illiberal.

(Before you assert that Christians don’t face that criticism, consider the outcry over the film The Life of Brian and the stage play Jerry Springer - the Musical.)

So if you believe in insulting other religions then accept that people will react in different ways. The right to insult anything Islamic will only result in war's and more fanaticism. It is up to the Christian's how they react partly because they don't really care.

Once again if people in the west are not allowed to deny the holocaust then they can't insult Muslim emotions either. How other religions treat their religious figures does not mean you can Muslim holy figures.

 

[Robert]

So if you believe in insulting other religions then accept that people will react in different ways. The right to insult anything Islamic will only result in war's and more fanaticism. It is up to the Christian's how they react partly because they don't really care.

Once again if people in the west are not allowed to deny the holocaust then they can't insult Muslim emotions either. How other religions treat their religious figures does not mean you can Muslim holy figures.

Trying to unpick this knot of equivalences you have tied....

Firstly, Muslims were murdered in the Holocaust. So Holocaust denial should be an insult to Muslim emotions.

https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/remembering-muslims-murdered-auschwitz

https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/europe/the-muslims-of-auschwitz-tales-of-tragedy-and-heroism-75-years-on-1.969956

Austria, Germany, Poland, Greece, Italy and France (only, not "the West") ban Holocaust denial because they squarely face the horror they perpetrated. UK does not ban Holocaust denial explicitly, but has hate speech laws which protect all from hatred. Most Western countries have such hate speech laws.

Secondly, industrial-scale state murder is not the same thing as insulting emotions.

Thirdly, in most countries with hate speech laws, your emotions are protected. Such as here in the UK. If some EDL thug was to burn a Quran he would get arrested sharp quick.

 

[PakLFC]

Trying to unpick this knot of equivalences you have tied....

Firstly, Muslims were murdered in the Holocaust. So Holocaust denial should be an insult to Muslim emotions.

https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/remembering-muslims-murdered-auschwitz

https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/europe/the-muslims-of-auschwitz-tales-of-tragedy-and-heroism-75-years-on-1.969956

Austria, Germany, Poland, Greece, Italy and France (only, not "the West") ban Holocaust denial because they squarely face the horror they perpetrated. UK does not ban Holocaust denial explicitly, but has hate speech laws which protect all from hatred. Most Western countries have such hate speech laws.

Secondly, industrial-scale state murder is not the same thing as insulting emotions.

Thirdly, in most countries with hate speech laws, your emotions are protected. Such as here in the UK. If some EDL thug was to burn a Quran he would get arrested sharp quick.

My points are very simple. Why is it okay to insult all religions but not question or deny the holocaust? Muslim's being murdered or not has nothing to do with it.

Why is hate speech of Muslim's allowed but questioning or condemning Israel seen as being anti Semitic?. So the countries you mentioned are okay in attacking Islam and Muslim's it seems but feel guilty over how they killed the Jews?. The UK bans hate speech of the Jews but is okay about hate speech of Muslim's and Islam, right!

So Iraq and Afghanistan was not industrial scale murder for you, it was not genocide??. It just gets more and more amusing!. It is hate speech that leads to attacks on any community. Never mind links of the American cooperative media.

 

[Robert]

My points are very simple. Why is it okay to insult all religions but not question or deny the holocaust? Muslim's being murdered or not has nothing to do with it.

Your points have been answered in my previous post.

 

[PakLFC]

Your points have been answered in my previous post.

What you mean is you have no answers. All you are saying is according to this law and that law. I am afraid that just isn't good enough.

 

[SalimBhai]

What you mean is you have no answers. All you are saying is according to this law and that law. I am afraid that just isn't good enough.

All religions should be up for examination , ridicule.

 

[Gilly]

What you mean is you have no answers. All you are saying is according to this law and that law. I am afraid that just isn't good enough.

The laws only apply to the countries they exist in, for example in Poland holocaust denial is banned, but they do not insist that other countries obey this law.

 

[SalimBhai]

The laws only apply to the countries they exist in, for example in Poland holocaust denial is banned, but they do not insist that other countries obey this law.

You are wasting your time

 

[PakLFC]

All religions should be up for examination , ridicule.

I agree nothing should be accepted blindly. The Qur'an does ask people to ponder the universe.

 

[PakLFC]

The laws only apply to the countries they exist in, for example in Poland holocaust denial is banned, but they do not insist that other countries obey this law.

So what's your point if any?

 

[Robert]

What you mean is you have no answers. All you are saying is according to this law and that law. I am afraid that just isn't good enough.

What I mean is you don’t like my answers because I don’t accept that Muslims are more victimised than other minority groups, and deny your sense of special victimhood.

 

[SalimBhai]

What I mean is you don’t like my answers because I don’t accept that Muslims are more victimised than other minority groups, and deny your sense of special victimhood.

It’s mostly British Muslims that have this mentality. I don’t see it much in the USA Just my observation

 

[PakLFC]

What I mean is you don’t like my answers because I don’t accept that Muslims are more victimised than other minority groups, and deny your sense of special victimhood.

Yes Muslim's are targeted more that there is no doubt about. Someone with a Muslim name commits a crime their faith is highlighted even if they know nothing about Islam. Why is the west not telling us that Russian's who are fighting the Ukraine are mostly orthodox Christian's?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jul/20/muslim-terror-attacks-press-coverage-study

 

[SalimBhai]

Yes Muslim's are targeted more that there is no doubt about. Someone with a Muslim name commits a crime their faith is highlighted even if they know nothing about Islam. Why is the west not telling us that Russian's who are fighting the Ukraine are mostly orthodox Christian's?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jul/20/muslim-terror-attacks-press-coverage-study

Maybe because they are not fighting in the name of orthodox Christianity ??

 

[PakLFC]

Maybe because they are not fighting in the name of orthodox Christianity ??

There are many religious Christians yet not shown as that. If Muslim's are fighting for religious reasons then it is because Islam is being targeted.

 

[SalimBhai]

There are many religious Christians yet not shown as that. If Muslim's are fighting for religious reasons then it is because Islam is being targeted.

Yes there are many Christian’s. But they are not fighting non the name of Christianity. There is no longer Christendom .

 

[PakLFC]

Yes there are many Christian’s. But they are not fighting non the name of Christianity. There is no longer Christendom .

That is because to Christian country has been invaded or bombed repeatedly over the last 20 years or something. That is because no Christian country has been under occupation during the same period by non Christians.

 

[PakLFC]

That is because to Christian country has been invaded or bombed repeatedly over the last 20 years or something. That is because no Christian country has been under occupation during the same period by non Christians.

I meant no Christian country has been invaded or occupied by non Christians neither have their people been killed in million's since the last 20 years or something.

 

[SalimBhai]

I meant no Christian country has been invaded or occupied by non Christians neither have their people been killed in million's since the last 20 years or something.

Christendom concept has been dead for centuries.

 

[SalimBhai]

I meant no Christian country has been invaded or occupied by non Christians neither have their people been killed in million's since the last 20 years or something.

And Muslim ummah concept has been well and kicking since the 7th century.

 

[PakLFC]

And Muslim ummah concept has been well and kicking since the 7th century.

The Ummah existing or not is irrelevant. Here the west has been bombing Muslim countries for 20 years in the name of WOT or WMD then naturally there will be a reaction. You can call the west Christian or so called free world either way Muslim's are the victims of non Muslim aggression.

 

[SalimBhai]

The Ummah existing or not is irrelevant. Here the west has been bombing Muslim countries for 20 years in the name of WOT or WMD then naturally there will be a reaction. You can call the west Christian or so called free world either way Muslim's are the victims of non Muslim aggression.

The biggest victims of Muslim aggression and Muslims. Turkey bombed the hell out of Syria. I am not defending usa in the Middle East. Having said that I think Robert answered to your points. Nothing more to add.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It’s mostly British Muslims that have this mentality. I don’t see it much in the USA Just my observation

It's an observation you have probably made every day for every month since you signed up under this persona. It's not conducive to the topics, if you want to discuss British Muslims either revive one of the many threads, or open a new one and we can discuss all matters in detail. Stick to the topic.

 

[Robert]

Yes Muslim's are targeted more that there is no doubt about. Someone with a Muslim name commits a crime their faith is highlighted even if they know nothing about Islam.

I don't believe that they get a rougher deal than Blacks under the British judicial system or even poor Whites. Yes there are a lot of Muslims in jail but part of this is connected to social class. Sikhs, Hindus and Jews occupy more of the middle class and these are less represented in the prison population.

 

[Robert]

The biggest victims of Muslim aggression and Muslims. Turkey bombed the hell out of Syria. I am not defending usa in the Middle East. Having said that I think Robert answered to your points. Nothing more to add.

Muslims in Saudi Arabia and other states are bombing Muslim Yemenis. There are civil wars in majority-Muslim states in Africa.

Boko Haram murdered and abducted hundreds of thousand of people in Nigeria, Chad, Niger, Cameroon, and Mali and displaced millions from their homes.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/6/24/northeast-nigeria-conflict-killed-more-than-300000-children-un

 

[Technics 1210]

Liberal deception in full swing once again.

Who supplies the bombs, weapons, fighter jets etc to Saudi Arabia? Amreeka and UK!

Plus Saudis and likess of Boko Hara, are constantly criticised by the Muslim world but when you have the Western liberal governments providing the weapons, it goes back to square one - the West are always involved.

Liberal west are closet Islamophobes without doubt.

 

[SalimBhai]

Are they forcing them to drop bombs? Pakistan has also provided Saudi bombs and weapons.

 

[Gilly]

Liberal deception in full swing once again.

Who supplies the bombs, weapons, fighter jets etc to Saudi Arabia? Amreeka and UK!

Plus Saudis and likess of Boko Hara, are constantly criticised by the Muslim world but when you have the Western liberal governments providing the weapons, it goes back to square one - the West are always involved.

Liberal west are closet Islamophobes without doubt.

All those kalashnikovs eh.

 

[SalimBhai]

All those kalashnikovs eh.

Technics also please clarify on nobels non existent wife . Made up stories that you are peddling here

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I don't believe that they get a rougher deal than Blacks under the British judicial system or even poor Whites. Yes there are a lot of Muslims in jail but part of this is connected to social class. Sikhs, Hindus and Jews occupy more of the middle class and these are less represented in the prison population.

When was the last time poor whites were categorised as a menace to society? I don't recall reading too many Daily Mail or Sun articles in that vein.

 

[Technics 1210]

All those kalashnikovs eh.

Banned under new sanctions against Russia, clearly the West trying to corner the market in the global weapons trade.

 

[Robert]

All those kalashnikovs eh.

Saudi Arabia, UAE, Sudan, Bahrain, Kuwait, Qatar, Egypt, Jordan, Morocco, and Senegal are all involved in the Yemeni Civil War overspill. Much of their kit comes from USA, UK and France, but some comes from Russia.

Saudi Arabia is one of the biggest exporters of terrorism in the world, carrying on their cold war with Iran for regional hegemony.

So yes, it could be argued that after the US-led Coalition draw-down from Iraq and ISAF withdrawal from Afghanistan, the biggest threat to a Muslim is no longer a NATO smart bomb or drone-launched Hellfire ASM, but another nationality of Muslim.

 

[MenInG]

ALL

Lower the heat on this thread

No need to name call or point fingers - just stay on topic and talk about the subject.

No need to keep on repeating stuff you have already written

 

[Robert]

When was the last time poor whites were categorised as a menace to society? I don't recall reading too many Daily Mail or Sun articles in that vein.

That wasn't [MENTION=142169]PakLFC[/MENTION]'s point. He argued that Muslim criminals are treated differently under law, presumably meaning in UK. I argue that the factor of social class may be more important predictor of incarceration than race or creed alone. It's not middle class Whites, Blacks and Muslims filling our jails - it's poor people from all three groups.

 

[PakLFC]

I don't believe that they get a rougher deal than Blacks under the British judicial system or even poor Whites. Yes there are a lot of Muslims in jail but part of this is connected to social class. Sikhs, Hindus and Jews occupy more of the middle class and these are less represented in the prison population.

In prison Muslim's are treated like other convicts as should be the case. The point I am making supported by the article I posted in the media targets them much more then non Muslim's. As i asked with the war between Ukraine and Russia raging no religion has ever been bought up. Even though millions of people from these countries are devout orthodox Christians.

 

[PakLFC]

The biggest victims of Muslim aggression and Muslims. Turkey bombed the hell out of Syria. I am not defending usa in the Middle East. Having said that I think Robert answered to your points. Nothing more to add.

Yes indeed Muslim's are also causing great harm to each other. Then again so are the Russian's and Ukrainian's now who are both mostly orthodox Christians. I have taken care of you and Robert as always but by all means continue if you want too.

 

[Robert]

In prison Muslim's are treated like other convicts as should be the case. The point I am making supported by the article I posted in the media targets them much more than non Muslim's. As i asked with the war between Ukraine and Russia raging no religion has ever been bought up. Even though millions of people from these countries are devout orthodox Christians.

Because religion isn’t a factor. It’s an imperialist invasion.

 

[PakLFC]

Because religion isn’t a factor. It’s an imperialist invasion.

What invasion are you talking about?. Also, many Muslim's accused of terrorism no nothing about Islam. The media however makes it sound as if Islam is to blame.

 

[SalimBhai]

Ukraine and Russia are not fighting in name of Christianity.

 

[Robert]

What invasion are you talking about?.

The one you refer to in your previous post.

 

[PakLFC]

The one you refer to in your previous post.

Russia-Ukraine one. What about it?. Muslim terrorists are nit killing each other in the name of Islam either.

 

[SalimBhai]

Russia-Ukraine one. What about it?. Muslim terrorists are nit killing each other in the name of Islam either.

Isis is.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Ukraine and Russia are not fighting in name of Christianity.

But Christian nations which you and I reside in are fighting a proxy war over there. Do you deny it?

 

[SalimBhai]

But Christian nations which you and I reside in are fighting a proxy war over there. Do you deny it?

Let me ask you. If tomorrow usa starts supporting Palestine against Israeli occupation . Would you call that a proxy wa?? If they start giving Palestinians weapons would you think that’s a proxy war ?

 

[SalimBhai]

But Christian nations which you and I reside in are fighting a proxy war over there. Do you deny it?

To go further . Do you think usa supporting Afghanistan vs USSR was a proxy war?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Let me ask you. If tomorrow usa starts supporting Palestine against Israeli occupation . Would you call that a proxy wa?? If they start giving Palestinians weapons would you think that’s a proxy war ?

Yes.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

To go further . Do you think usa supporting Afghanistan vs USSR was a proxy war?

And again, yes.

 

[SalimBhai]

And again, yes.

In that case I would say all three wars mentioned are proxy wars also. So I would agree with you

 

[Robert]

Isis is.

Boko Haram do too. They have killed hundreds of thousands of Muslims in the name of God.

 

[Robert]

But Christian nations which you and I reside in are fighting a proxy war over there. Do you deny it?

They aren’t doing that in the name of Jesus, but to deter Putin from further imperialist expansion.